Now that everyone has had their say, I'll put the bottom line on this subject and we can put this baby to bed. The school enrollment numbers will shrink and they will swell from time to time. The 'school tax' portion of our property taxes will likewise have to shrink and swell over time - well, it's time for it to swell - and taxpayers will give survive paying more for a few years.

Alright Dave , I read your paste. Now I will be fair here because if you actually read my posts in context you will find out that I always try to be.
The point that Ben Franklin owned slaves is TRUE, HOWEVER I will concede that he ONLY owned 5 slaves, which is much better than almost any one of the other founders. Does that make it any less moral? To charter a nation based on freedom , and own other human beings for your own personal gain? Whether it was about sticking together or not, if Ben was truly a principaled man he would never have been such a hypocrite.
Now, that being said, after the revolution was over Ben became an advocate for the ABOLITION of slavery, which is GREAT! He freed all of his slaves that he had and became an outspoken advocate against slavery in 1789, 1 year before his death in 1790.
My greater point that should be conceded by all of you, should be that our nation of freedoms and rights WAS born in hypocricy, it just was, no matter how you want to slice it , spin it, whatever. Go down the list of signees on the constitution and the Declaration, they all owned plantations, and people, while "fighting for the freedom, that all men were created equal", which NONE of them except maybe Franklin actually believed.

Dave, I do thank you for at least engaging in a discussion, and while I pasted the list of 17 reasons in the last 50 years of American travesty worldwide, its just a list. None of my points are paste, they are mine.

The problem is that so many want to tell you , to shut up and get out when you raise questions that deserve answers. Go through that list of 17 things and ask yourself, why? Why did our "great nation" participate in that? Dont just blow me off as some kind of emotional debater, understand that I post things because I believe them to be true and have researched them. Which is why I looked a little deeper into ben Franklin and am able to clarify him, does it change the hypocricy? Or the morality? I still could care less what generation it is, the owning of human beings for anothers personal gain, is morally wrong, PERIOD.
This is not me trying to get a last word, because I am really not that way(most of the time), but to label me so recklessly as many of the righties have done on this site is irresponsible and LAZY. I get tired of it which is why I appreciate your effort Dave to engage without labelling me as Anti-American.
Those like shrek and others, that support law breakers that evade taxes, hold no water. You are similar to any hypocrite, hold one group responsible while allowing another to just break the law BECAUSE you can relate to them.
Done on this post , looking forward to finding you on others.

count* the money (not "could")

Wisconsingirl - that belt tightening is so that our money can go directly into the hands of wealthy corporations. Remember, Walker actually INCREASED spending beyond the cuts he made when you could the money he handed over to them, causing heartache at the middle and bottom and padding pockets of those that don't need it. He does this as payback and so that they will continue to pay big bucks to keep him in office. Maybe some can be fooled, but apparently teachers are smart enough to see that.

Walker's tools aren't working for the MAJORITY of school districts. Janesville is not alone! Those "rosy" stories coming from Walker's press releases only account for 11% of the schools!
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/ed...

Our current weak economy is a fact of life, whether we like it or not. Families across the country have had to tighten their belts. Companies across the country have had to tighten their belts. State and local governments across the country have had to tighten their belts. Why do teachers think their schools should be immune to the reality everyone else has already been facing?

The teachers' comments all sounded fairly positive to me. No matter what industry you work in, changes and cutbacks create uncertainty. People who respond with a positive, can-do attitude tend to roll with the punches better than those who give up. I would much rather have my child in a classroom led by a can-do personality than someone who met a challenge with a scowl and gave up.

SmallBiz wrote:" Wake up Rocky - here in the real world, the teachers' unions are holding the taxpayers hostage. Remember, our schools are here to provide jobs for represented teachers, not to educate our children."

***

Really? I didn't see the indication that this was supposed to be sarcastic, but I can't for a moment believe anyone would seriously think this way. You are one scary individual. Tinfoil hats are aisle 12.

@fear: Since you like to cut-n-paste, I'll do the same. Please do me the coutesy of actually reading the following with an open mind:
"The Founders weren't stupid. Of course they knew that the universal ideals embraced in the Declaration were not matched in reality across the 13 colonies. The controversy over slavery was intense; but even more intense was the need for a united front against Great Britain. The choice that had to be made in 1776 was not between slavery or abolition. It was between hanging together, as Benjamin Franklin supposedly quipped in Philadelphia, or most assuredly hanging separately. They chose to hang together, and the confrontation over slavery was postponed for later.

And in that confrontation, the lofty ideal of equality enshrined in the Declaration -- precisely because it was enshrined in the Declaration -- imparted enormous moral authority to the abolitionists' cause. Those who indict the Founders because their treatment of African slaves didn't come up to the standard of "all men are created equal" should be asked: Would the Declaration of Independence have been improved if those words had been omitted? Would slavery have ended sooner had abolitionists not been able to invoke that "self-evident truth"?"

@Shrek: You make some good points! Two more examples are right under this LOL!

i would also like to add to you three right wingers trying to discredit my factual arguments.
Try to refute anything I said, argue facts with facts. The founders OWNED people and said they were all about "all men are created equal", I merely point out the FACT that statement is born into hypocricy, and I amattacking with emotion? Laughable!
I post a list of excursions that our beloved governemnt has partaken and once again I am attacking with emotion? I would love any of you to pick a topic and refute it with fact instead of this blind patriotism that clouds all of your viewpoints. You are entitled to your opinions and I mine. I didnt even start this discussion I only responeded when called upon.
BTW, I don't "hate" this country at all. I just don't have blind love for anything inatimate, especially when this country has been commiting atriocities of its own around the world for DECADES! Its not an attack guys, its willingness to ask hard questions, maybe some of you could take a break from the partisan garble and look into it. Doubtful. But keep a$$uming what you want about me I just keep on with my emotional attacks, all of you sheep make me laugh, seriously.
Anytime you are game for a back and forth about Real American history I am always game. I miss going at it with challinging foes like RAF and Kiwo, smart guys that are willing to debate, instead of emotional hacks. Enjoy your day partisans!:)

I list facts and post links, dont like it, dont know what to tell you, and small BIZ the teachers union is the teachers. They are one in the same. Many of them will tell you that, your rampant attacks against the teachers unions is the EXACT same as attacking them. They NEED their union for OBVIOUS reasons.
You know the funny thing is that I am NOT a union guy, never have been. I watched the UAW abuse privelidges for decades that made me sick. I have seen other private sector unions do the same thing. My problem is the broad brush that so many of you righties love to use, teachers unions are designed to protect them from ideological politicians and people that would cut their salaries and bennies to NOTHING. I do believe that some underachieving teachers are protected by unions, but I think that is a very small problem, because I believe that there are very few poor teachers, VERY FEW. If some have any facts that can show there are poor teachers everywhere, then I might look at it differently. I think the main problem here is the broad brush arguments against unions, which I get from some point, but not this one. Teachers union stands and fights for their wages and benefits, which if any of you were under attack by the public for ideological resons would GLADLY enjoy some protection. Especially when the private sector is the main cause for the economic crash, certainly not because of unions or public employees.

Dave,
Fear never uses facts only emotion. Fear also hates this country and wants to force us to change it to their liking. Fear cannot understand that we love this country and will fight to the death to protect it from people like Fear. Fear is unable to comprehend that anyone can think differently from them and is blinded by hatred and anger towards those of us that disagree. Fear obviously lives a miserable, anger filled life and should seek therapy to help with these issues. I really feel sorry for Fear.

@fearandrhetoric4dummies: Most of whatever "points" you are trying to make are lost in your relentless attacks against others, so you should know your "points" are not reaching anyone but yourself. And Btw, attacking others does not constitute "facts".

I see that fearandrhetoric4dummies does not correctly read other's comments before he/she responds. For instance, I said that "... teachers' unions are ...". fearandrhetoric4dummies reads it as "... teachers are ....". No wonder he/she makes so many useless, unrelated comments.

Yeah Donnaw I figured one of your ilk would be telling me to move away if I don't like it here. I guess the freedom of speech that you and guys like DAVE like to credit the founders with, only applies to un abashed lovers of everything that the USA does, so blindly.
Doesn't that list at least make you ask yourself what the heck we are doing? Or are you fine with whatever as long as they dont raise your taxes?
Love it or leave it? Just glad thats not the rules, but if you want more hypocricy, there it is!!
Again, I was merely responding to a post addressed to me specifically, it turned into more because DAVE wanted to tell me how I should or shouldnt view things. Dont like my FACTUAL representations, tell me where I am wrong, but please enough with the ideological rhetoric, k?

Gotta love smallBIZowner- quoting the "real world" , talk about a disqualifying statement. Hey skippy your taxes are at 60 year lows, so what exactly are you talking about?
You couldnt see the forest despite the trees. You hate unions, thats fine, but you are a prime reason that they are necessary. You wont be satisfied until teahers make 5 bucks an hour with no benefits, all because you hate paying taxes.
Link:http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20002548-503544.html
Its easy to see why you hate education! Teachers are "holding taxpayers hostage" now? Nice rhetoric you simpleton!

"youkillme
Aug 29, 2011 at 3:14 p.m.
Suggest removal"
I am not complaining - I am just saying that lots of people work extra for no pay. It is part of the job that needs to get done.

Fear..you need to get out in the sunshine a little bit! If you don't like this country maybe you should think about going somewhere else. Find your Utopia!

Wake up Rocky - here in the real world, the teachers' unions are holding the taxpayers hostage. Remember, our schools are here to provide jobs for represented teachers, not to educate our children.

Wow, seebee, I hardly know where to begin. Your post is so full of bitterness and misinformation. I'll just address a couple points: (1) "holding taxpayers hostage" is a very violent image. Teachers want schools to be funded because they want to be able to provide the best possible product for the children of this community. When you pay those taxes you are funding the future of this nation. Schools are an investment - not a product to be bought and used. (2) "Bloated salaries" Huh? Have you been paying attention? Most teachers, with Master's Degrees and years of experience, earn in the 40's and 50's. I'd hardly call that "bloated", especially compared to the private sector. To this day most teachers earn less than what GM line workers used to make and less than their peers with professional degrees. You go on to complain about the "product" (i.e. Children), but have you noticed the recent articles that show that Wisconsin kids still out-perform their peers on national tests? You are still getting Cadillac performance from schools for Chevy pricing. (3) As for the relationship between WEA Trust Insurance and WEAC - see the post by Stubby. He explained it pretty well. Finally - please seek a qualified counselor to help with that anger...for your own good.

Teachers have been using the "don't cut education" argument for decades. The fact is they have held taxpayers hostage for years and in turn have bloated pay, a way over-bloated benefits package, and lets be honest, they aren't all that good anyway, judging by what they are producing. Their union owns an insurance company! That company has been taking it to the taxpayers through collective bargaining. This is inarguable. The teachers union is a racket that needs to be crushed! If they don't like it, they can quit. Plenty of people out there with teaching certs that would love a chance.

Now because I ask questions , I should love her or get out am I right Dave? Never mind I just can't stand ridiculous people that make ridiculous arguments.
I was merely answering a post addressed to me DAVE. You had to get me on a tangent, old ornry people are just silly and don't like facts, at least most of them don't.

I am ignorant? DAVE- pay attention:
1.1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as dictator.
2.1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.
3.1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.
4.1963-1975: American military kills 4 million people in Southeast Asia.
5.September 11, 1973: U.S. stages 1973 Chilean coup d'état in Chile. Democratically-elected President Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 3,000 Chileans murdered.
6.1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.
7.1980s: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.
8.1981: Reagan administration trains and funds the Contras. 30,000 Nicaraguans die.
9.1982: U.S. provides billions of dollars in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.
10.1983: The White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis.
11.1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties.
12.1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.
13.1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.
14.1998: Clinton bombs possible weapons factory in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.
15.1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.
16.2000-2001: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in aid.
17.Sept. 11, 2001: Osama bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to plan the murder 3,000 people

Who is ignorant, DAVE? This is just in the last 58 years! Still think our country is sooo wonderful? I love my family and friends. I would like to love my country but it is tough, pick any one of 17 reasons. Wonder why most of the people in the world hate us? It certainly isn't freedom!
Also not to mention the civil rights struggles all the way through the 60's. Racial discrimination still exists to this day, DAVE. I would also point out that women couldn't vote until 1920! Stick out your chest DAVE and be proud.Some of us choose to be realists, and some choose to live in the world of pixies and USA dust. Which are you?

AND THE HOOOOOME OF THE BRAVE!!!!!!!
Take off the blinders DAVE.

At least when those of future generations judege me, itr wont be by OWNERSHIP of human beings. It will be on selling our other human beings down the road for a buck. Letting sick people die because they cant afford insurance will mark this generation. FOREVER> and you have the nerve to call me ignorant? Dave you may be the most ignorant old fogie on here.
What do you think that Jesus would say about the great country that is America. While I would commend anyone who serves this nation, to call America great is a pretty blind stretch. You must be one of those blind idiots that believe that America is exceptional.
Dont be condescending and call others ignorant DAVE argue facts DAVE, I can and will respond whenever called upon, I speak only in Fact, something people like you seem to like to ignore so you can revel in how Great you think America is. I have freedom of speech because of the "founders"? really? Are we the ONLY nation on Earth that enjoys freedom of expression? NO! Wake up DAVE!! You wanna discuss Jesus, Education, or American History with me I am game and I will find out the truth, you just allow yourself to be spoonfed. Welcome to the sheeple.

@fear: Your level of ignorance (and impertinence!) astounds me! My "beloved founders"?!? Without the founders of this great nation, imperfect as they were, you would be unable to exist, much less spew your ignorant claptrap. (And btw, thank a veteran for your continued freedom while you're at it).
Your quoting the Declaration for the purpose of defaming the founders is as purposeless as quoting selected passages of the Bible for the purpose of defaming Jesus Christ. You need to get off your high horse and use a little empathy to try to understand the life and times during which those historical figures lived. Did you ever stop to think that future generations might judge YOU based on the prevailing wisdom of their times, be it 2100, 2500 or 10001? Get a clue my young friend.

So now that your false contention has been refuted seebee , you have a legitamite point? Certainly not your own! The teachers should NOT be footing the bill because of the widespread failure of the private sector. Opening a negotiatied contract for ideological reasons is wrong, period. You dont do it, plus each and every time that the district projects huge defecits, cuts are overblown and we end up with surpluses. The fact of the matter is that this stuff regenerated over and over in the paper is just fodder for all the right wing parrots around here that just latch on to every shred of teacher/education bashing you can.
Spanked in November? Lastr time I check Scooter Walker beat a weak democratic candidate by 5 points in the most positive environment for right wingers ever!! I hardly think you should be blowing off the fact that your man is in trouble, and judging by his own reactions to costing his party 2 seats in the senate, he knows it!! If you consider recalling 2 sitting senators a failure, okay I guess, but I would like to remind you that it has happened once before inb our history?
Maybe you should get your facts straight before spouting off at the mouth.

Sence; Back to school for me!

Seabeee: Your not "footing" anybody's bills. The teachers work for the money the JSD agreed to pay them. Your name calling was in bad taste. Anonymity should not be a reason to compromise one's integrity...The teachers should not be held responsible for a budget crunch that was not their fault, and if you read the article, you would know that teachers are obviously sacrificing a lot this year.

Cut education when employers are saying that they can't find qualified people, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! It makes no sence!

Rushed through or not, renegotiation should have happened. Now, you got layed off teachers and a budget crunch. Way to cut off your nose to spite your face! Doesn't the President say people need to sacrifice? Or does that only apply to us non-union working people? Face the facts, you idiots got spanked in november, your recall attempt didn't achieve its goal, and your attempted recall on Walker will most likely fail. Those of us living in the real world and footing your bills are tired of getting soaked by the precious public "servants". Suck it up! Even after everything walker "did" to you, you still have it better than most of us. Take what you got and zip it!

WEAC is cutting their staff because the governor has dramatically cut their ability to make teachers pay union dues disguised as fighting for teachers' rights.

Why is it that almost every time this comes up on these blogs someone talks about rushing the contracts through? Are you people really that un informed, or do you just repeat right wing talk radio rhetoric? People wonder why I use therm Parrot so loosely? The contracts took a year and a half to negotiate and were passed 3 months before Walker took office, CHEESH!
DAVE- I am plenty focused, look down and read my post about the article, Ill say it again I was responding to VATO! You dont like my comments on your beloved founders fine, I DONT CARE, this nation was born in hypocricy. "My standards" include not owning people for the purpose of doing work. There were many farmers that were not as well off that couldnt afford saves and did it, why are you making excuses for them? Freedom to the "founders" meant freedom for wealthy white people. FACT. You dont like it, I dont know what to tell you.
The words of Thomas Jefferson from the Declaration of Independance:
The Declaration of Indenpendence states that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
I guess that all white men were created equal, just not women(couldnt vote), or blacks. Nice beginning to the country that professes to be the "Land of the Free".

seabee-
1)The CITY doesn't sign the contract, the school board does.
2) The teacher's contract was signed in SEPTEMBER, well before Walker was even elected (not rushed through by any means).
3) As for WEA, read Stubby's post, just prior to yours!

Perhaps if they city had waited instead of rushing to get the contract signed they wouldn't have to do with less. Look at all the money saved in other districts by forcing the unions own insurance company to bid competitively. Why does a union need to own an insurance company that way overcharged anyway?

Soliddad - I think most teachers "get it". The problem is that those doing the teacher bashing like to say "they only work 190 days per year" and "they only work 7-4" as an argument why teachers should be paid less than other professionals. What you and I both know is that teachers are paid and happy to work probably in excess of 2000 hours in most years - and they cram it into 10 months. Teachers know they don't have what most would consider "regular" hours....it is those doing the bashing that seem to miss that point.

---

Oh, and let's not forget that many engineers and medical professionals are also represented by unions (for example the UAW representing workers at Mercy East).

----

And for what is probably not the last time - WEA insurance is a not-for-profit, independent insurance company. No money flows from the insurance company to the union, nor has it ever. Any such action would be illegal. Also - in recent bidding cycles, WEA insurance has been able to win contracts because they are lower in cost than other local carriers. You want the low bid, right? WEA has it. And...for the record....Janesville does not have WEA insurance at all. The argument is a red herring in this discussion.

@fear: Just trying to get you to focus a wee bit. Sad that some disrespect the founders because they didn't live by your 2011 value system. Slavery was and is evil (duh!), but the founders were living in the 18th century. We deleted slavery in the US in the 19th century. And none of this has anything to do with this article!

Hey ........DAVE>>>>> I am not the one who is quoting ben Franklin's auto biography in an effort to knock down public or any education, which guys like you and Vato have a problem with.
I was simply stating a fact that this nation was born in complete and total hypocricy, and to use the "founders" as some kind of leaning post on ANY subject, needs to be put into context. Dont like me calling out hypocrites, then dont bring up Ben Franklin or any of the other founders of "the land of the free". Okay......DAVE!!
I already stated my opinion on this article and have in any subsequent ones, so you or anyone else who reads these blogs know my position. I was merely responding to a post addressed SPECIFICALLY to me , dont like it then do what you always do, SKIM and move on!

frogger, are you bragging or complaining about working 45-55 hours a week, coming in early, and paying more into your 401k, etc? Because you sound like you are NOT happy with LESS but are happier knowing others now will also be getting less. I think there is a special happiness among some these commenters about teachers or any union wage worker about "taking a hit." That taking a hit like the rest of the country is a good thing. It's a race to bottom and it's sick.

I have never seen so many people complain about their jobs. Why can't everybody get on the gazette all the time and complain about their jobs? YES complain. I do see police on hear and I bet they have more to complain about. What about firefighters? GM- yes they got to complain and still do don't they.

americanproductsamericaspride
Aug 29, 2011 at 9:11 a.m.
Suggest removal

soliddad,
I respect your perspective but you FAIL to understand what teachers are saying.
.
They are DEFENDING themselves NOT COMPLAINING about the hours they work.
.
Please understand that when under attack, defending yourself may sound like complaining or crying.

I agree with soliddad's comment.
Nope - I hear them COMPLAINING all the time.
I work 45-55 hours a week. I am sorta like salary as well. I may work 53 hours a week and only get min wage. I feel like I volunteer my time sometimes as well but you have to be here to help people. If it takes more hours to get the job that is just how it is. ALL of us are living on less these days EXCEPT the teachers. They get raises yet still COMPLAIN. WHEN would you like to set up your room? When the kids are in it? So you came in a day early? I come in early to if there is a job to get done. I come in on days off if there is work to be done! Thats is life folks! Complaining because you have to give in to YOUR own 401k. Tired of hearing it all the time. Some employers DON'T offer 401k at all. Some LET you do 401k and NO contribution and some contribute. I have wondered if the get their portion of 401k provided for them does the job still MATCH the portion which was already GIVEN to you?

The digression to the topic of slavery is ridiculous. The article is about teachers.

Shrek if you mean racist against white slave owners, then you would be correct. Can you refute any ofmy facts? I know that you like to make excuses for tax evaders, why don't you make excuses for the slave owning founders, and ALL of them owned slaves.
Little light reading for you:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/culture/art...
I find anyone who calls themself a fighter for freedom and owns other people for the purpose of doing their work , hypocritical and disgusting. I think that the "land of the free" was created in hypocricy. Disagree? Why?

Fear is sounding quite racist today.

They organize like meatpackers because some people think they organize like meatpackers.

You guys are hilarious.

My child had Mrs. Koukaris and confirms she is a top-notch teacher!

Vato- Hard to get any credibility for copy and past, but okay. In context Ben Frankin and the rest of the "foounding fathers" of this nation beased on freedom, owned slaves. Kindof hypocritical right? They essentially owned people for the purpose of doing their work for them, and then they want to "free" them selves from tyrrany? The tyranny of taxes? Funny that they had HUGE plantations and slaves , but just wanted to keep more of their own money, funny how some things never change huh?
Essentially the founders were a bunch of wealthy, white , tax-evading, slave owners. Sounds like the Republican party of today!! Except their slaves live in China and they arent trying to impregnate them like Thomas Jefferson was said to.
You might want to find some less hypocritical people to use as examples for your unadulterated hate for intellect and education. You think its okay to get rich by stealing others ideas by propping up billionaires like Bill Gates that got rich by patenting and stealing others ideas. While there certainly are examples of folks making it without education, their stories are almost always LUCK and not hard work. Educated Americans make on average over a MILLION dollars more than their uneducated counterparts. The dumbing down of America only turns us into a third world nation, but maybe thats what you want?

THANK YOU TEACHERS! Thanks for all that you do for our kids! But most of all thanks for all that you put up with, from troubled kids, to psychotic parents, to bitter, angry comments on this site.

Vataloco doesn't need his own newspaper, one has already been established for him and feeds him all of his thoughts. It's the John Birch Society Manifesto for those among us who can't think for ourselves.

noleftist,
Because of people like you, who believe they should be treated like meatpackers.

If teachers are professionals, why do they organize themselves like meatpackers?

Geography for $1000 please Alec….
“Where would a person find a community that bashes public education teachers?”
Beep…. My hometown Janesville, Wisconsin
SOOO SAD this article turns to bashing teachers again!!! Thank you to ALL my past teachers and Thank you to ALL the teachers in Janesville,Wisconsin!

yes, vataloco, copying and pasting articles from a website should be commended. Do you wonder, perhaps, who owns informationliberation.com? Interesting to see that the domain registration is private. Yes with hard hitting stories like Osama was dead years ago and other fringe topics, it is a go to source for anti government news aggregation. I'm not surprised that some of you would take it seriously, and further not surprised that the website owners are anonymous, though my guess is that's it's either Alex Jones or one of his disciples.

Thank you, dedicated teachers, for your perseverence and commitment to kids. There are many reasons that almost half of those who enter teaching leave within five years: the tremendous challenges; frustrations with deteriorating conditions; the low pay compared to other credentialing professions; and the lack of respect. Those who repeatedly post bitter comments here do not help, and only help chase away great educators. And to those great educators who stick with it notwithstanding the above, I and my kids who are about to enter the public school system thank you.

peacenick.....We're hardly "fighting for the rich". The unions aren't going after the rich with their "tax to the max" rhetoric, they are going after the middle class. We are the ones who fully fund their pensions and HC expense, while we also struggle to provide ourselves with a little bit of security that no one provides for us.........

vato: Good posts! Now we'll see what the results are of cleaning up some of the union mess. Looks like most districts, taxpayers, and the state government will be better off. Funny that this article seems to assume that there will be universal suffering. Far from it!

As a state, Wisconsin has become one of the lowest spenders, percentage wise, of money that goes towards classroom materials. Meanwhile, WEA Trust had been charging the highest in insurance costs. In essence, WEAC has been siphoning off millions in taxpayer money that should be going to the classrooms. This, too, is being corrected by Gov. Walker. Thank you Governor !

soliddad,
I respect your perspective but you FAIL to understand what teachers are saying.
.
They are DEFENDING themselves NOT COMPLAINING about the hours they work.
.
Please understand that when under attack, defending yourself may sound like complaining or crying.

Luckily, those teachers who are retiring won't have to do with less: their health retirement benefits that are over $100k are still safe, even though they are paid directly out of instructional budgets. It's for the kids.

Please stop refering to this as "Their own time" these teachers are paid to do a job, no matter how many hours it takes. It is a salary position and they are getting paid to work and have the summers off. Teachers get paid for a years worth of work and cram it into a school year. If you don't like it, get a new job and let the teachers that understand this concept work. Quit crying because you took a hit like the rest of the country!

I feel so fortunate that I don't live in Janesville. I just dropped my pumpkin off for his first day of kindergarten at a private school with a classroom size of 14. And you know the kicker? When you figure in the cost of before / after school care it's actually cheaper than my local public school and they also have a track record of better results to boot. While my family is not part of Walker's school choice program, perhaps he should open that program up state wide to give parents / taxpayers more choice as to where their money goes & who is educating their children.

I think when the dust settles everything will turn out alright.Bad times usally make us better and when we look back its usually not as bad as we thought it would be.

I don't get it. I am not a member of a union but Unions are paid for by their members. We like to call ourselves the land of the free but we are telling people that they cannot spend their money on an agent who looks out for their interests. Why--because it worked. My grandfather fought to unionize the railroad. I always thought this was a great period in U S history. Now we seem to be fighting the wrong fight--do the rich really need us to fight for them? If we win anything at all in this fight, it is just a hope that the rich will trickle down some substandard opportunities for living.

"Teachers don't have their own money. They have tax payer's money. Unless you refer to teachers that spend their spouse's money on their classrooms (and their spouse is not paid with tax payer money!)"

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Wow. I think that kind of illogic speaks for itself.

I agree Sarah, attitudes like don't run away from doing the job you were elected to do, be respectful and don't harass and scream at people, don't lie about your presence at a demonstration, don't cry like a baby when things don't go your way (elections, for instance), etc.

Rocky has this correct. There is short term damage but the real damage will be in future years when Janesville and Wisconsin will be unable to hire top level teachers. The smart students will no longer pursue a degree in teaching and the best teachers will not work in this community. (actually that is already happening-I know of a top if her class new teacher who took another school distrcts offer because that community didn't demonize thier teachers.) a couple incorrect-paychecks are payment for a job, once delivered to the employee they are no longer the employer's money. Teachers paycheck's are thiers-once they earn them they do not belong to the taxpayer. I don't get to decide not to pay my bill at walmart because I think the checker is just going to by beer with his paycheck. Second-Eauclaire is going TO WEAC insurance because they are LESS expensive than the private insurance plans. Third- you all seem to forget Walker's budget is actually LARGER than Doyle's last budget. So don't be expecting your taxes to go down, those corporations won't want to stop sucking off the government teat anytime soon.

If this is all caused by walker can you explain why cities like New Berlin, Kaukana, Baraboo, Mequon, and many many others are running surpluses and also adding teachers despite being in the hole last year? There is a difference between those cities and Janesville and it has nothing to do with GM leaving. The school board and the teachers have dropped the ball here, now they can either work to make it better or complain and look for some sort of miracle. This could be the most important lessen they ever teach the students, let's see if they are capable of doing it.

Besides the school Superintendent said that she was still committed to the Journey to Excellence. They will just have to complete the rest of their journey on foot.
Did I ever mention that I used to walk 10 miles to school and back? Without a Smart board. In fairness, I did have a sled, but it did little good because my journey was uphill in both directions. At worst we will be giving today's students an opportunity to tell their children how tough they had it when they were going to school....unless of course these eventually turn out to be the good old days....a journey of 1,000 miles starts with 1 step. And so it begins.

FRANK SCHULTZ - you missed the point. Journalism 101 - who-what-when-why-where. Why do other school districts have a surplus this year and our Janesville schools have this problem? Oh yea, our school board signed a contract that the teacher's union will not reopen until it expires so the Janesville school district has to shell out more money than other school districts this year (and next).

Tulkas - You provided a dead link and you missed the point too. Teachers don't have their own money. They have tax payer's money. Unless you refer to teachers that spend their spouse's money on their classrooms (and their spouse is not paid with tax payer money!)

Yada - shame should go to anyone who believes that spending education dollars to purchase WEAC insurance for 30% over the going rate is the right thing to do. WEAC found the 'no controlling legal authority' loop-hole that needs to be closed. Someone should be doing time in prison for that one. Anyway, Walker found a way to close that loop-hole so Wisconsin school districts can stop overpaying for teacher's insurance and SPEND THE MONEY ON THE CHILDREN IN THE CLASSROOMS.

Taxes are too high? Economists(what would they know) disagree.
Link: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/0...
But what would they know? The tea party actually believes that the current administration has raised their taxes!! Goes to show you that Citizens united is doing its job, keeping the poor dumb folks, poor and dumb, not to mention uninformed.
The funny thing is that there are so many on these boards that think cutting 800 million dollars from public education, is a good thing. Unfortunately even in times of economic despair, there are just certain things that should remain, and one of those things is QUALITY education. A part of that education IMO is well compensated teachers, INCLUDING benefits and a very nice retirement. They desrve it. They sacrifice so much for our kids, and yet all some can do is bash the very union that protects them(or is supposed to) in times just like these? I see a poster on another thread talk about how all public school teachers are "crappy", that is the kind of language people are using against the MOST important professionals in our society, to make some kind of ideological point.
For those that say there isnt money there, I say there is. If it means disposing your own trash for a couple of years, or any other number of programs that arent needed, or maybe just pursuing the tax evaders in this state, we should NOT be doing this to education, PERIOD.
Teachers deserve our respect, they are NOT your childs babysitters they are EDUCATORS. While admittedly there are some substandard teachers out there that ARE protected by their union, you people act as if the great majority of them are terrible. It is QUITE the opposite, the percentage of actual "bad" teachers IMO would be under 5%. The percentage of EXCEPTIONAL teachers would be enormously high. To act as if they dont care about the kiddos because they fight to keep decent wages and benefits is just ridiculous.
Punish the tax evaders and collect what they owe and the Governor would never even havve to do this. Unfortunately the REPUBLICAN AG refuses to do his job and pursue lawbreakers. Allowing teachers to be demonized, pathetic.

Poor WEAC. Does this mean the annoying commercials on the radio during the Badger games are a thing of the past? Let's hope so!

Because they are not allowed to extort money anymore and are out of it!

I feel bad for them. All that happened to me was having my wage cut in half then losing my job. (violins please)

WEAC is cutting their staff because the governor has dramatically cut their role in fighting for teachers' rights.

WEAC is cutting their staff because they blew all their money on useless recall elections they engineered.

It is too bad that cuts have to be made. Tough times force us to choose what's important. We don't have to cut what's truly important like academics. Schools spend lots of money on many things that have little or nothing to do with teaching.

So it's all Governor Walker's fault, huh? Wouldn't it be nice if there was a money printing press in Madison like there is in Washington? But no. Here in Wisconsin, we have a constitution that requires the government to have a balanced budget year in, year out. It's the law. They don't have anything like that in Washington. They need a few extra hundred billion, no problem. Roll the presses! But here in Wisconsin, intake has to match outgo.

Well that's easy, some say. Just jack up the intake. But wait a minute, due to unemployment, there are fewer people to provide the intake. Well that's no problem, say some. The rich have lots of money, just raise their rates! Yes, but many of the rich left Wisconsin years ago for places live Nevada where the tax rates aren't so high. What we really need are more taxpayers, not more taxes. Well, some say, they didn't all leave. Yes, but the ones who stayed are the ones who we are counting on to hire the people who need jobs and that we need to start paying taxes again. Well, some say, they aren't hiring so who cares. True, they aren't hiring now, but the new taxes you want to levy aren't going to take effect now either, they'll take effect next year when those people are hopefully going to start hiring again. They won't be able to hire then either if we tax away all their profits.

We can't print money and our taxes are already too high. We can't get any more from Washington. Madison is tapped out and our unions don't want to help. We are out of alternatives. Cutting is all we have left. Let's just make sure we cut the right things. We don't have to cut academics. Our school system spends lots of money on things that have little or nothing to do with academics.

And don't be surprised if next year, things are even worse. When is that contract term over?

Nemisis, apparently you either didn't read or choose to forget the article about Weac cutting 40% of thier staff. But Walker has room to hire those who scratch his back at $100,000 per appointment.

Schools are doing with less - teachers are doing with less - parents are doing with less and consequently students are doing with less. The only ones who aren't doing with less are the union bosses at WEAC and NEA.

Save Janesville Schools is still here! We will be holding an Italian House Pasta Fundraiser at Craig High School on Sunday, September 25 from 11am-2pm.
There will be a raffle at this event that includes an item donated by the Green Bay packers!
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See our website or facebook event for more details!
http://www.savejanesvilleschools.org/#!e...
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=11...

916 - read the internet and you will be able to see how an education will help - does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. WALKER HAS GIVEN 140 MILLION FOR SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP SPENDING AND TAX CUTS. Don't you read???????????? I guess he is paying back his supporters.

What ever happened to Save Janesville Schools? They seem to have fallen off the radar.....

Unfortunately, the professionalism of most teachers will only embolden those who want to cut from the schools. Teachers will work even harder, spend even more of their own money, make less money, and still provide the best education possible to our kids. Then the teabaggers will say "see - they didn't need all that money" and start cutting even more. But the time will pay when we have to pay the piper. These cuts will hurt teacher's families first, but eventually we'll see fewer and fewer dedicated individuals in education. Teachers have families to support. If the wage doesn't do that, they'll go elsewhere. Lack of new supplies and technology will start to cripple the system in a couple years, but since the effects aren't immediate, by the time the damage is seen it will be too late. So hats off to the teachers who are doing their best to make it work. I hope those in charge come to their senses soon.

As far as the article goes, I hope many Walker backers can gain a perspective on what teachers are up against this year. Thanks to all the great teachers that are able to work through all this mess and still make it work, even with their own money! Thanks also to the Gazette for actually writing a positive article about teachers and all they do for the kids. Maybe it truly is about the kids, afterall...

916WI-I'm not sure if you have been sleeping since Walker was elected, but here is a link as to what Walker is doing as far as tax cuts for businesses. I do agree with you that his lack of a degree has nothing to do with his understanding of the impact on support staff in large classes. Even with a degree, his reduction of state funds to public education would still be considered unwise by many!http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/mar/04/

yada......please give specific examples of Walker just "giving" millions of dollars to corporate America. I seriously that the lack of a bachelors degree has any bearing on understanding the value of support staff. Stop being so dramatic........

Shame should go to anyone that believes taking away over $800 million dollars from WI education is the correct thing to do. Having a governor that did not complete his degree means that he does not fully understand that taking away the support staff and MANY other things is hurting the kids. Being open for business means to Scott Walker that it is okay to give MILLIONS to corporate America, but screw the kids of WI. Walker is not just attacking the unions - he is attacking the minds of our young people by not giving them the best tools that are needed for academic growth,