The Gazette should be ashamed of themselves for giving this tripe the light of day.

Why are you even publishing this "article" there is NO link between vaccinations and autism. The man who claimed this is a fraud. The fact is kids who do not get vaccinated die from preventable diseases! Get your kid vaccinated! If I write an article stating that the Earth is flat will you publish that as well?

http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/are-the...

Are there more people with autism related disorders, or is there more diagnosis: The latter. Evidence shows that areas with higher autism "diagnosis" directly correlated to populations of parents that were more highly educated with more disposable income and better access to healthcare and could not be connected to any environmental factors. Furthermore, the most current British study shows that autism rates are the same for people in their 20's as they are for people in their 80's, about 1%, showing no statistical change whatsoever.

The Sounds of Silence

Funny how when linked to Age of Autism site where their conduct is clear for all to see--that it is completely morally indefensible--Ms Conrick bails.

Apparently the AoA crew aren't interested in the facts or in staying where they can't censor comments they don't like.

W&N

why is it that no one ever considers that increased amount of alluminum? It is just as toxic as mercury. They all like to disprove the MMR, but they don't look at that it might just be the straw that broke the camels back! Maybe that's the treshold of toxins that the body can take.

antireactionary - On the contrary. Many of the "anti-vacs" have indeed thought about DDT. And food preservatives, food colorings, tainted water supplies, and rampant over-medicating of both kids and adults, among other things that are basically poisoning all of us to some degree. A vast majority of the "anti-vacs" are intelligent, educated people who are concerned about the onslaught of all these outside, man-made forces upon our overall health. While we can't create our own water supply or avoid the residual effects of DDT, we can in fact avoid pre-packaged, preservative-filled foods, and we can in fact avoid the risk of injecting a plethora of chemicals into our bodies.

My mother and I thought vaccines were safe too, before she got a flu shot and became completely, permanently paralyzed. She can't even sit up or feed herself. Her doctors said they had seen the same reaction before and that it wasn't rare. Please watch this video so the same thing doesn't happen to you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRcZZROph...

fool_on_the_hill,

We understand your problem.

I keep posting links where readers can fact-check the anti-vaccs and see that they aren't truthful.

No wonder you try to discourage people from reading my links.

Once they discard all the untrue anti-vacc claims, readers see that there is nothing left but personal attacks.

W&N

antireactionary,
We might also investigate what our changes in diet and lifestyle over the last 50 years may have contributed to the increase in autism, but then we'd only have ourselves to blame.

It may also be that autism hasn't increased at all, and we've just gotten better at diagnosing it. It may be that our understanding of mental health has improved so much in the last 50 years that these children, who would once have been labeled as "slow" or "problem children," are no longer dismissed as dim witted, but recognized with a real condition and taught to use their unique abilities to lead a meaningful life.

These are ideas that do not have reliable data and merit study. Let's stop trifling with ideas that have been disproved. It seems like a more constructive outlet for all the passion on display here.

What I find most interesting is the fact that none of the anti-vacs have thought about the residual effects of DDT and pesticides, which are actual nerve agents and found in most homes as the culprit. In the 1950's, they literally blew DDT everywhere on everything. But again, then the anti-vacs can't blather on endlessly about their victim status and government conspiracy rant.

First off, autism is not in any way an epidemic. 1 in 110 is 1.1%. That is NOT an epidemic. What is most disturbing about the anti-vacs is the certitude of their cause. They are absolute in their belief that they are right and everyone else is wrong. That isn't science, it is dogma. And Jenny McCarthy is just a blow hard with breast implants. Maybe the silicone in her breast implants caused her child's autism, but she won't possibly entertain that notion because that doesn't allow her to be a victim.

I've been following the discussion here and find one thing most troubling: The possibility that the good folks reading Gazettextra might give any credence whatsoever to the posts of sock puppet "whiteandnerdy". It isn't the voice of science, it isn't honest and isn't worthy of rebuttal. Simply dismiss all of it.

shouldbeheard,

Have you ever looked up the chemical composition of strawberries? Wow long list of scary sounding chemicals....

Anyway, the Amish do vaccinate.

The funding sources and author affiliations are listed in the publications--lots and lots of relevant vaccine studies are done by people in Universities, insurance companies, etc, etc

Your link on Gardasil is from political activists. Look up the author's bios. They aren't scientists, they simply don't know what they are talking about.

Here we are 3.5 years later and their report is ignored. If you try fact-checking it will be obvious why--they are just wrong.

W&N

Has anyone researched the INGREDIENTS to these vaccinations. Alluminum is a link to alzheimer's and is used in vaccinations. I'm not sure that roach killer (another ingredient) has any effect on human diseases. However, in researching how great vaccinations are, you find the studies have been done by drug manufacturers, not saying they would be bias or anything. Even searching the National Institute of Health, documents are published by people who would benefit by drug sales. Have you ever wondered why the Amish don't have the illnesses (side-effects) that are being claimed. Here's a link, not sure if this is biased as well: http://www.judicialwatch.org/documents/2...

Freddieschnaut01,

Re your Dec 7, 2011 at 3 p.m. posting.

Yes the con is very, very clear to most of us.

Your 17/18 comment fails middle-school math, but it is clear that no matter how many times your error is corrected the anti-vaccs are unwilling or unable to get the math right.

You have also totally failed to understand the post-marketing statement--and I think you gave the wrong link.

But you have nicely demonstrated again why the anti-vaccs are marginalized to yelling on the Net.

Seriously--can you really not follow the math of vaccine efficacy?

W&N

Freddieschnaut01,

Re your Dec 7, 2011 at 2:44 p.m posting

Your typical distraction from the facts.
(1) AoA makes money scaring parents about vaccines
(2) AoA claims that there is no data comparing vaccinated with 100% unvaccinated kids--see below for an example
(3) AoA crew knows that this data exists but simply will not tell the truth.

Clear now?

I gather you didn't actually read the editors statement on Poling or follow the ethics of Godlee's disclosure. The irony is not missed on all of us.

W&N

gravitylens,

Do you notice that the anti-vaccs never talk about how to tell what are actual adverse reactions from vaccines?

W&N

redhead60707,

Re your Dec 6, 2011 at 10:29 p.m. posting.

(1) We all see that you couldn't provide even one example of a case where compensation was made for autism. No surprise because they don't exist--they are an outright fabrication. FTR: AoA gets petty much everything wrong.

(2) The TOS for this site are clearly posted and the comments are here for all to read. The obvious truth is that it is the anti-vaccs that have continual violated the TOS. Apparently you don't care about the veracity of misconduct of a poster as long as they criticize vaccines.

(3) AoA is site speaks for itself.
http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/12/seth-...

Filled with the typical AoA comments: scatological/sexual personal attacks, comparing people to Hitler, comparing people to Nazis...would you like a few thousand more examples?

Personal opinion: I think you are profoundly ashamed of the gross and systematically moral failings of AoA--but too bad, you choose to associate with them.

Bonus: all the ranting is just a diversion from the truth.
"I then proceeded to ask how he can continue to accuse Dr. Wakefield of unethical research and bad science given the ongoing investigation by Dr. David Lewis – professional scientist with the National Whistleblower Center – who exonerated Wakefield of the pathology fraud allegations "

Which anyone with the integrity to go to the BMJ site and read the facts could not possibly believe. To the contrary, Dr. Lewis helped to prove more examples of Wakefield's fraud.

W&N

Wrote Teresa Conrick (writing as redhead60707) in a comment December 6 2011 at at 10:29 p.m, re Age of Autism:

"Advocating personal violence? Personal attacks? Moral person would condemn? - W&N is not telling the truth here at all and making up untruths."

No, White and Nerdy is if anything, restrained.

The comments posted at Age of Autism are very heavily monitored, by which one knows that every comment must have approval from a person. I have contributed to a collection of screenshots of comments in which violence against a number of individuals (Paul Offitt and Seth Mnookin most notably) is advocated. I also recall at least three separate incidents in the comments where bloggers who use pseudonyms were "outed" with their real names and other identifying information, such as their place of employ or the school their children attend. Remember, Age of Autism comments are heavily moderated--someone in a position of responsiblity at that organization approved the revealing comments.

Personal attacks at Age of Autism and SafeMInds: a selection:

JB Handley's lawyered-up attack on blogger Kev Leitch, which caused Leitch's website to be withdrawn for a while; JB Handley's "outing" of the blogger known as Orac; JB Handley's vicious attack on writer Amy Wallace; the infamous "Thanksgiving Baby Eating" post of 2009; the concerted attack on the oncologist David Gorski, emailing his bosses demanding that he be fired; the TWO SEPARATE attacks on the Maryland epidemiologist, resulting in the closing of his blog and latterly, a threat to his employment.

There are more examples, but this is sufficient to illustrate my point.

"Advocating personal violence? Personal attacks? Moral person would condemn? - W&N is not telling the truth here at all and making up untruths. I think his words and actions represent many who use anonymity to verbally attack on the internet."

How is that libelous? I've been monitoring Jenny McCarthy's angry mob for nearly five years, and I recognize W&N's words as true and verifiable. That's why you're losing the PR war, Red. Just because you can play the Janesville Gazette doesn't mean you are any closer to "bringing the vaccine program to it's knees," to quote your Dear Leader.

17/18 kids who had 5 DPaT shots got pertussis:

http://www.ajc.com/health/content/metro/...

FDA required risk disclosure on DPaT: "Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting."

Suggesting that unvax kids are at the root of pertussis outbreaks is belied by these stubborn facts. The vaxxed kids assumed the risk of the vaccine and 17/18 got pertussis. Can you say, "con job?" Remind anyone of another product Merck lied about,that killed and injured healthy people (hint: Vioxx. If you thought, "40,000 dead", you are correct!) The fact that their "pertussis vaccine" is useless kind of fits the pattern, doesn't it?

What a drag to be Merckie in this social media environment. The lies can be so easily blown away.
I hear you, Whitey, I hear you.
Heil Merck! Heil Merck! Heil Merck! Heil Merck!

Hey Whiteface- yeah, the data you cite is over a decade old. Brilliant observation. Maybe we should treat your mental condition, or heart condition, or cancer, with decade old data.
There are no credible studies on health outcomes of vax v unvax kids, except in your fantasies. There are HMOs, as you know, which service 99.99% unvax kids, and the kids are healthier with virtually no autism. Anyone fluent with social media and google can learn that, which is why you and your ilk are screwed to the wall.
Fiona Godlee has a much more serious conflict than Poling ever had. Godlee "forgot" to mention that her journal is funded by Merck while publishing her hit piece on Wakefield. She also said she doesn't know who makes MMR. She is either stooooopppid or lying, perhaps both.
Merck lied about Vioxx. 40,000 healthy people died. Merck makes pediatric vaccines. I don't trust Merck or their research.
Where's the vax unvax study you were on about? Still lodged in your cranium? Puleez get off the paragraph from Simpsonwood- people will think you are an unreliable idiot (I do) for conflating that with a research study.

I'm just going to leave this hear for you insane anti-vaccination people:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation...

I would like to point out that I have already grown up in a generation not fearing the chicken pox. Who "fears" chicken pox? Do you realize that not everyone should get the chicken pox shot? Here's the VIS.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/def...

Click on "Varicella". Please note possible side effects include seizure (which, by the way, is considered a "moderate" side effect), pneumonia, severe brain reactions, and low blood count. Also read Section 3 - many people should not get a chicken pox shot. How do you know if your child is allergic to gelatin or neomycin? If it's the first shot, how do you know if your child is allergic to the shot itself? Are you willing to risk a seizure to find out? Personally, I'd rather deal with the chicken pox.

I'm not saying don't get the shot - that's up to you - I'm just saying that the public needs to be more educated, and perhaps some allergy testing should be done prior to inundating kids with a myriad of immunization shots.

Hard to ignore the injuries? That's kind of hard to see, but OK. But how is it so easy to ignore the benefits?

Unlike my parents, I grew up in a generation that did not fear Polio. My children will grow up in a generation that will not fear Cervical cancer, or even the Chicken Pox. Well...if we get our act together they will.

The link between vaccines and autism has been so thoroughly debunked, that to discuss it without presenting new peer-reviewed, scientific evidence is a huge disservice to public. Vaccinism will become the new creationism.

Terrible people? Shut up and take your lies home? What? You have indeed gone off the deep end. Who decided that you're in charge? Who decided that your opinion is so lofty that you can tell other people to shut up? This is a public forum. You don't know anyone here. How dare you call any one of these people "terrible" for making a choice they believe is in the best interest of their children. What about the 15% to 20% of children who receive ineffective vaccines? Are they "terrible" also?

janesvillean, you've really gone off the deep end on this one.
.
People are going to die? Children are dying already when their immune systems are assaulted to the point of overload.
.
Terrible people that deserve to be slandered/libeled? Surely you know enough about the 1st ammendment to know better.
.
Let each parent make their own choice on what is best for their child. I'm sure your vaccine protected child won't be at risk. Unless of course they don't really work all that well........

Teresa, the link you cited is a press release from the National Autism Association, which carefully crafts its vaccine damage agenda as "questioning." Reuters specifically prefaces it with the disclaimer "* Reuters is not responsible for the content in this press release."

I care about this topic, deeply -- I care that it is diverting the issue of care, support, and respect for our children -- mine and yours -- and autistics, right now. I care when dollars that could be invested in those positive supports are solicited for organizations like Age of Autism -- a for-profit, LLC company sponsored by (alternative and so unregulated) pharmaceutical company which unironically and continuously attacks anyone who rightfully questions their horrifyingly misinformed and negative agenda as "mercenary pharma shills." I care that your and AoA's negative messages have poisoned public perception about autism to the point where misinformed and mentally ill autism parents are killing their children because they're so afraid of autism.

I care. Deeply.

Libelous? Why should we be afraid of libeling people who reject science? You're creating a dangerous fear of a necessary public health measure, and for that you should be loudly condemned. Court cases rely on the legal system, not science. It's very telling that this is all you keep coming back to. Shut up and take your lies home. You're going to bring back communicable diseases that were thought tamed, and people are going to die. You're terrible people and you should be called worse than you've been called in this thread.

Thank you to the Janesville Gazette for printing my OpEd letter. There have been comments that are inappropriate, sarcastic and some that border on bullying. This last one by W&N is an example of that. He has made other comments that are unjustified and border on being libelous - especially to the people who write and blog for Age of Autism.

"Civil discussion? Look at your postings here....more to the point, we can all read the AoA postings--many of which I can't quote here because they so grossly violate the TOS of this site. But AoA is clearly OK with the most egregious personal attacks, advocating violence etc, etc. Clearly any moral person would condemn these actions. Where have you done so?"

Advocating personal violence? Personal attacks? Moral person would condemn? - W&N is not telling the truth here at all and making up untruths. I think his words and actions represent many who use anonymity to verbally attack on the internet.

For any readers who genuinely care about this topic, please stay tuned.
The National Autism Association is a wonderful group and feel free to use the contact numbers at the bottom of their press release here: "Study Reveals 83 Individuals with Autism Quietly Compensated by Federal Vaccine Injury Court"
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/1...

redhead60707,

Re your Dec 6, 2011 at 4:29 p.m. posting.

Here again is the vaccine court website:
http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/

They have a searchable database of cases.

If the Pace claims are true, then it will be very, very easy for you to start posting some of these cases where autism has been compensated for. One example would be a good start.

Of course, if the pace claims are utter BS then you will not be able to provide a single example. You will rant, or remain silent, or make excuses etc

We are all waiting for you to provide one example....

W&N

zdog,

I supplied exactly what I said: data comparing the risks of autism in vaccinated vs unvaccinated kids.

While you assert that there were "very few" unvaccinated kids, the truth is there were enough to do statistical testing.

For every age and every combination of vaccines/partial vaccination the risks were the same as for 100% unvaccinated kids. There wasn't even a trend towards increased autism risk amongst all the different groups of vaccinated/partially vaccinated kids.

If you understand hypothesis testing, then you will understand that this is very powerful evidence.

And it is completely dishonest for the AoA crew to tell people that this data doesn't exist.

W&N

Freddieschnaut01,

Re your Dec 6, 2011 at 3:08 p.m. posting.

Look at my first posting:
"The data on vaccinated vs 100% unvaccinated kids is more than a decade old."

And what do you do when faced with facts?
"Where is the peer reviewed, journal published study of vax v unvax kids you keep alluding to?"

Look at that--you have been caught making things up. I never used the words peer-reviewed or published.

I did supply exactly what I said: data comparing vaccinated with 100% unvaccinated.

Your every posting has been rather pathetic attempts at diverting from the facts. In this case you retreated from the Banks and Poling cases where your statements were not truthful.

Naturally, you grossly misrepresented my comments below about Dr. Poling.

And if you actually cared enough to ask, I would tell you to read the Sep 2008 issue of J Child Neurology.

The editors comments ("The Appalling Poling Saga") very clearly details Poling's dishonesty and unethical conduct.

But again, you didn't even ask. After all it does raise the ugly question why none of your sources bothered to mention this...they have had two years...what else have they hidden from you?

W&N

Ms. Conrick claims:

"Since we are now learning that there have been many cases in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program that have resulted in autism - http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewc...... (citing the not-study published in a student run law review, variously cited as Pace Law Review or Holland et al.)

The best lay review for this not-study is published at http://photoninthedarkness.com/?p=216

In order to get the answers they wanted, the authors confounded autism with "autism-like symptoms". The two cannot be commingled. The criteria used by Holland et al aren’t comparable to those used to generate the autism prevalence in the general population.

Another, longer and more detailed discussion of the weaknesses in the Holland et al. analysis can be found at

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/0...

Essentially, the diagnosis of autism in children in the vaccine-injury-compensated group is the same as the general population.

No matter how many times "autism is vaccine injury" advocates make claims, if they cannot be backed up with actual evidence, that's all they are: claims.

@ciaparker"hundreds of thousands of children have suffered post-vaccinal encephalitis".Really????????????? Just another unsubstantiated comment that is not based on fact

To Ezoner:
I don't understand your post. The purpose of doing the vax/unvax study would not be to see if unvaccinated children get vaccine-preventable diseases at a higher rate, but to see if they got post-encephalitic diseases like autism and seizure disorders and autoimmune diseases like asthma, diabetes, allergis, and bowel disease at a lower rate than the vaxed children. My daughter got the hep-B vax at birth, four days later started screaming constantly and inconsolable for four days and nights (vaccine-induced encephalitis), and was later diagnosed with autism, caused, I am certain, by the brain damage of the encephalitis. Hundreds of thousands of children have suffered post-vaccinal encephalitis. One of many things a vax/unvax study would do is take note of the incidence of encephalitis in both groups, and note how near in time the encephalitis occurred to the vaccine. It would determine whether autism really is a coincidence occurring naturally around twelve months of age when the MMR is given now, or whether unvaxed children develop autism around twelve months of age in equal numbers. My daughter and I will never accept another vaccine. There are hundreds of thousands of people in the U.S. who feel the same way, and would be very happy to participate in a formal study. And until it is done, this controversy will not be settled.

Ms Ditz,

Since we are now learning that there have been many cases in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program that have resulted in autism - http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewc...

I think it is important for readers to know the truth. My writings about my daughter are to help bring awareness, research and treatments for these very sick children. Your sympathy is touching but to then try to highjack our tragedy for your own agenda -- sketchy vaccine histories around the world and random outbreaks of measles tied into waning vaccine immunity - well, that seems very innapropriate.

It may be more helpful for all if you instead write to Merck and ask, like so many others, why they refuse to make single shots for measles, mumps and rubella? Please stop blaming parents of injured children and instead go to those companies responsible.

Freddy keeps asking:

Where is the peer reviewed, journal published study of vax v unvax kids you keep alluding to?

Here's one:
Schmitz R, et al. Vaccination Status and Health in Children and Adolescents. Dtsch Arztebl Int (2011); 108(7): 99–104

Discussed at length at http://photoninthedarkness.com/?p=211 in English.

Why is it that shot nurses and doctors say that a person can't break up the vaccines and get them administered one at a time? Of course, with 33 vaccines needing to be administered by 24 months...that would be a little hard to do. I thought the reason for administering multiple vaccines in one visit was for convenience that would make it more likely that people would comply with getting all the vaccines. If I had a baby or young child (had to do it all over again), I would insist on limiting the number of vaccines given at one time. Would take longer and more visits to the clinic shot nurse...but it should be my right to be cautious. It's almost like we are not allowed to question the "experts".

Makes sense that if you have an autoimmune disease/disfunction..that you would not want to over stimulate your immune system!

Freddie, the mislead. An mercury safety organization has one of it's board members create a 'study' full of misleading titles, inane associations and untenable conclusions(see Redhead 11:14 below). That one makes all the epidemiological studies that Age of Autism likes to mock... look double blind, placebo controlled by comparison.

'Evidence' like this is put out there as rock-solid proof that there is a vaccine-induced autism epidemic. AoA et al has been very successful at pitting pharma's track record to attempt to slide everything that they can make up about a vaccine/autism epidemic as something to be seriously considered. Time and again, their 'evidence' comes back as 10 times as shoddy as anything pharma throws out there...

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vaccine...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/06/aut...

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles...

Parents, please don't endanger your children, and those who come into contact with them, by not having them vaccinating. Please read the articles above.

Jim Carrey's own wife, Jenny McCarthy, who was at the forefront of the anti-vaccine crusade, backed off her stance. Correlation /= causation.

Livsparents- the trusting. Merck sets up a study, learns that Vioxx is killing healthy people. Merck buries the evidence, patents a test for the elevated enzyme, and continues to market the Vioxx knowing people are dying.
That proves that Merck deliberately falsifies research data to make a buck, they paid $3 billion in criminal sanctions.
Merck makes pediatric vaccines, funds science to determine that the vaccines are safe. All of Merck's research shows in bright, shining, glorious detail that vaccine are wonderful no harm, the benefits outweigh the risks. Except when the vaccines kill and main otherwise healthy kids.

Hey Whitey- Poling scammed the VICP? Really? So Zimmerman, and Johns Hopkins,and who else was in on the deal? That is one hell of an elaborate conspiracy theory, cracking good! When is someone going to press charges against Poling, or is that part of the scam, he did it so deviously that only you and your cohorts know all about it? Listen, I am really interested in you writing as much as you can about Jon Poling's dishonesty, go off on it.
Where is the peer reviewed, journal published study of vax v unvax kids you keep alluding to? Do me a favor, include all health outcomes, not just neurodevelopmental,and if you can, please imagine it to be a real study, not a few lines pulled from meeting notes.

I have a lot of sympathy for Teresa Conrick's daughter Megan. From what Ms. Conrick has written at Age of Autism, Megan has had a particularly hard year, medically speaking.

But that doesn't mean that Ms. Conrick's beliefs about the cause of her daughter's autism symptoms are correct, or that Ms. Conrick's beliefs about vaccination are correct.

I use the word "beliefs" with intent. They aren't based in fact. Millions upon millions of dollars have been spent investigating -- both scientifically and legally-- the connection between vaccination and autism, and have failed again and again and again to find a connection.

Teresa Conrick wrote:

"It is getting hard to ignore the thousands of other parents like me who have witnessed similar scenarios "

There are even more thousands of parent of children with autism --and adults with autism-- who reject the failed theory that "autism is vaccine injury".

What happens when vaccine uptake falls? We are watching two natural experiment underway, one in Western Europe and the other in New Zealand. Vaccine-preventable diseases return.

"There has been an especially virulent outbreak of measles in Western Europe. The outbreak has hit the nation of France especially hard, with six of the nine death attributable to the disease taking place there. Of the 26,000 reported measles cases in 36 European countries from January to October 2011, 83 percent have occurred in Western Europe, which is supposed to have world-leading public health services. "

In France, 90% of the disease has been in unvaccinated individuals or those whose vaccine status is unknown.

New Zealand has had historically, low uptakes of immunization. The result: "New Zealand is in the midst of a [measles] epidemic, with 387 cases this year (at November 4) - the most since 1997 - in a population of just over 4 million. The US, with about 313 million people, had recorded about 200 cases this year."

This is what Ms. Conrick and other spreaders of fear, doubt and uncertainty about vaccination want: epidemics of entirely-preventable disease, with the resulting suffering and death.

I have never heard any one that chooses not to vaccinate tell other parents not to vaccinate. Only to educate themselves and not just blindly (sheep-like) do what the government says is best for your child. I dont understand the spite and anger coming from some of you. And the paid commenters are making themselves quite obvious. It stinks that people can't have civilized conversations anymore.

W&N, agreed, as stated below.

For those interested in how parents mistake causation for correlation, why a vaccinated/unvaccinated study has effectively already been done, and why it's reasonable for parents to question vaccines -- but not reasonable for them to keep blaming vaccines for autism when no evidence supports a link, see: http://thinkingautismguide.blogspot.com/...

shannonrosa,

The issue is understanding the diagnosis. Many health problems cause some of the same symptoms as autism (stroke, tumors, trauma, encephalopathys--which have many causes).

No big surprise, the symptoms are behaviors and there are lots of ways to affect the brain that will result in some similar behaviors.

But this doesn't change the fact that Poling was not compensated for autism.

Now I think a reasonable, but unqualified, person could honestly misunderstand the court ruling. The problem here is that the facts have been explained countless times and the anti-vaccs just won't get the facts correct.

So again, this has passed the stage of possibly being an honest mistake.

W&N

W&N, I'll hand it to you, you have a way of twisting words to make it sound like you know what you're talking about.
--
yes, there were very few unvacc'd children in the study. What they were actually studying was the load of ethyl mercury and at what ages and at what amounts it seemed to have the greatest effects on things like speech development, add, and neurologic disorders of which they had this to say
--
""In conclusion, the screening analysis suggests a possible association between certain neurologic developmental disorders. Namely Tics, attention deficit disorder, speech and language disorders and exposure to mercury from Thimerisol containing vaccines before the age of 6 months."--
--

The anti-vaccine crowd could look at a scientific study proving the earth is round and would argue that it is wrong-the earth is really flat

zdog,

My 2 cents.

When someone tells you that unvaccinated kids have never been studied, you are a victim.

When you are provided with the text that says the controls got ZERO vaccines and you ignore the truth, then you are part of the problem.

Is it really too hard for you to acknowledge the facts?

W&N

Watch the fervor rise to a fever pitch
Author of the editorial says thousands are like her.
Freddie now says hundreds of thousands of parents.

We go from a 'report of adverse events' in a vaccine packet to 'admitting an epidemic' in the rhetoric...

Freddieschnaut01,

Re your Dec 6, 2011 at 1:11 p.m. posting.

The study with data on 100% unvaccinated kids is posted below. Naturally--and as predicted--you refuse to acknowledge the facts.

It says exactly what I claimed it said.

Banks--again I posted the ruling, you didn't. Which makes it very clear that your Dec 6, 2011 at 11:34 a.m. posting to Shannon was not true.

But hey, what you lack in facts you make up for with name calling.

With your arguments it so clear why the anti-vaccs are marginalized to yelling on the Net.

W&N

Vaccine ingredients
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkboo...
I recommend looking up the ones you can't identify or pronounce.

Vaccine side effects
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side...
Yes, that says permanent brain damage.

NVIC informational website
http://www.nvic.org/
Yes, that says "educated, voluntary health care choices."

Freddie the detective:

Dozens of unsolved gun murders have occurred
Police always seem to be on the scene
Police have guns
Therefore, police must have committed the crimes. Take away all their guns until we can prove that none of their guns did it...

W&N, thanks for the correction. A good discussion on the difference between the Hannah Poling award and her diagnosis is at Left Brain Right Brain: http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2010/09...

I believe LBRB's Sullivan summed the details up neatly: "The term “features of autism” comes from the expert reports wirtten by Hannah Polings physicians. Dr. Zimmerman, whose report is quoted in the concession document, referred to her condition as “regressive encephalopathy with features consistent with an autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development.” It is interesting watching people try to spin the “features of autism” statment as evidence of the government trying to obscure the facts. The statement is directly from Hannah Poling’s own doctor." Sullivan also pointed out that "Jon Poling has publicly stated that [Hannah] has autism (about 3 min 40s into the video):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Ru-Tp27....

Hey Freddie, here's a little secret, they set up the VICP because vaccines are KNOWN to cause injuries. Even the pharma companies won't deny it. But did vaccines cause an autism epidemic? I have seen NO study that comes even close to insinuating it, and the evidence continues to pile up that the autism rate has lots and lots of different factors involved in it's rise. In short, the idea that there is a vaccine induced autism epidemic is...a....MYTH...

Freddieschnaut01,

Re your Dec 6, 2011 at 12:49 p.m. posting

Dr Poling? Funny how you omitted that fact that he was caught doing dishonest and unethical research on his child that helped his family win million$--oh and he lied to his collaborators about this too.

The Poling ruling does NOT say "vaccines "resulted in" Hannah's autistic like symptoms."

I guess that is why you still haven't posted the Poling ruling for the readers here to see the truth.

Vaccine companies are subject to discovery. Just the latest in a long line of anti-vacc lies--too bad you didn't care enough to fact-check first.

Finally you ask the wrong question:
Since the vaccines cause autism crowd has systematically engaged in fraud for more than a decade and have use violence like threatening to murder journalists, scientists, and their children when their fraud is exposed--how can anyone honestly support them?

W&N

@Freddie
Seig AoA!
Seig AoA!
Seig AoA!
Your posts would be comical if they were not so sad and pathetic.
There has NEVER been a scientific study that has shown that vaccines cause autism

Shannon- I am much more intriguing in person, believe me! What can I say, you just seem like a Toots and a Sweetie, it's a compliment!
So you don;t think anecdotal evidence is evidence, even eyewitness accounts from hundreds of thousands of parents all saying pretty much the same thing? Fascinating. That is intriguing. In your world, I guess we couldn't have crimes solved based on eye witness accounts- just anecdotal, is that it?

ohh W&N, i feel for you buddy. I really do. It's not many that can be as oblivious as you. You might want to take the time to read your article, all 250+pages of it. Then read your own posts in the mirror, find out who you are really talking to. Good luck.

Awww, Whitey, you can do better. Uh, where is that vax unvax study you were on about this morning? Hmmmmm? Vanished without a trace, like it never existed!
BTW- I am the first poster on this board to bring up Banks. Thanks for posting it. Baily's PDD-NOS was caused by ADEM from his shots, per the VICP ruling.

shannonrosa,

I am pretty sure that Poling was diagnosed with autism.

Not that this changes the fact that her compensation wasn't for autism--a fact that the anti-vaccs just don't seem very interested in.

W&N

Freddieschnaut01, I find it intriguing that you're resorting to dismissives like "Sweetie" or "Toots," and are trying to shift the burden of proof for your unsubstantiated claims on me.

The plural of anecdotes is not data. Testimonials are not proof. And "Autistic-like symptoms" are not autism, any more than "broad autism phenotype" is autism. If the findings merited autism, that would be the wording. There are many conditions with autistic-like symptoms.

Being blind, Deaf, or illiterate -- none of those scenarios would be a barrier to educating myself about autism & vaccine facts and best practices, by the way.

Yea Bebe you're onto me.
There are peer reviewed studies that demonstrate conclusively that ibuprofen has a suppressive effect on vascular events. That is what Merck published and defended when the placebo control group taking ibuprofen had 80% fewer vascular events than Vioxx group.
So we absolutely should trust the tobacco science put out by Merck showing what? Vaccines don't cause brain damage and death?
Guess that VICP, and the $1.8 billion paid out since 1986, with 1 in 5 families denied claims. is a paranoid delusion. Damn! I thought I was learning reality/fantasy cognition! Quick, gimme some more anti psychotics, before the kids gobble 'em all up!

Freddieschnaut01,

As expected you offer a fact-free rant/collection of the standard personal attacks.

But then I suppose it must be incredibly humiliating for you to see that all it takes is integrity and middle-school reading skills to see the anti-vacc fraud in action.

Speaking of which, here is the Banks ruling, which for some strange reason anti-vaccs never post:
http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/defa...

Look at that: "non-autistic developmental delay" and PDD.

And for those that make it to the bottom of page 2, the court defines exactly what they meant:
"a ‘subthreshold’ condition IN WHICH SOME--BUT NOT ALL--FEATURES OF AUTISM or another explicitly identified Pervasive Developmental Disorder are identified...
...to encompass cases where there is marked impairment of social interaction, communication, and/or stereotyped behavior patterns or interest, BUT WHEN FULL FEATURES FOR AUTISM OR ANOTHER EXPLICITLY DEFINED PDD ARE NOT MET."

Well no wonder the anti-vaccs don't post the ruling and keep resorting to name calling.

Can't have facts and believe the anti-vaccs now can we?

Want me to post the Poling decision?

Or how about the DTaP insert?

Or how about the way anti-vaccs deceive people about infant mortality rates?

W&N

Another parent here of 2 kids on the spectrum, who also happens to object to the vaccination schedule. The difference between me and Teresa however, is that I do not attempt to use my child's autism to push a vaccine safety agenda. The evidence presented to promote a vaccine autism link is questionable at best, a sham at worst. Groups like Age of Autism, SafeMinds (who perpetrated that scam of a 'study' cited below)and others are using the autism community resources to push vaccine reform. My children have enough challenges in this world, they don't need to have to compete for attention with these people trying to push precious resources toward their agenda. Autism research needs to be used for autism, not vaccine safety.

Hey Whitey- where's the vax/unvax study you lied about? Still in your mind?
A few lines from Simpsonwood does not equate to a peer reviewed published study- but hey, you know that, you just choose to lie about the existence of a vax unvax study.
Keep lying, Whitey, keep lying- the truth is out, the more you post, the more obvious and transparent you become.
Seig Merck! Seig Merck! Seig Merck!

@Freddie-there has never been a scientific study done that has ever proven that vaccines cause autism-but continue your rants if it helps you deal with your anger issues and paranoia

Hannah Poling's father is a neurologist, the actual wording of the VICP settlement is vaccines "resulted in" Hannah's autistic like symptoms.
Why are you writing that Hannah does not have autism?
You want our kids to be healthy? Than advocate to subject Merck and all vax manufacturers to legal discovery so we can know what they know. That is how the Vioxx travesty came to light. The plaintiff's bar. Why trust Merck knowing their history of deliberate research fraud for profit with Vioxx?
If a parent observes their kid getting run over by a car, would you question their statements that the car caused an injury? The only evidence is temporal proximity, which does not prove causation,and correlation between the car striking the child and the child being injured. Stoooopid, right? Than why do you make the same feeble arguments to the hundreds of thousands of parents who say,"My kid got the shots. My kid spiked a fever. My kid starting crying in a high pitched voice. My kid developed gut problems. My kid regress into autism?"
Anecdotal evidence based on parent reporting is the number one diagnostic tool used by pediatricians, oh yeah, except where injury is suspected. In that case, suspect the parents and ignore the injury.
So, Sweetie- walk the walk if you're going to wail about protecting the children. You have to be willfully blind, deaf, and illiterate to not understand that vaccines cause brain damage and death, including of course autism. I will tediously trot out the citations, do it yourself. Start with online searchable VAERS, move on to toxicity of thimerosal, than look at meningitis caused by Urrabe strain MMR. That should keep you going for a while, with your propensity to post it would behoove you to do a little research first.

There have been huge studies done -both in this country and elsewhere-that have consistently proven that there is no causality between vaccines and autism-the only thing the anti-vaccine crowd has going for them is a huge case of denial-

zdog,

Please go back and re-read page 35:

"Zero, that is pretty obvious. They didn't get any vaccines". etc, etc
This is very clearly explained in the text.

The controls/referent group got ZERO vaccines.

It is clear that the document was just too hard for you to correctly read. Please don't feel too bad, the vaccine critics almost never manage to get the facts correct much less the science.

darwin1,

The database is available--how to access it is right on the CDC site. The anti-vaccs just keep claiming that it isn't. Notice the anti-vacc pattern?

Also, in general the raw-data from most publications isn't available--so the entire argument really has no substance. Although this does seem to be changing.

W&N

lovemycountry,

If you can't understand the difference between mercury (an element) and thimerosal (a compound), then it isn't surprising you don't understand the toxicology and can't see the fraud/incompetence of the anti-vaccs when they assert there are toxins in vaccines.

Good news: the courts can understand the science and (one more time...) have characterized those that make this claim as lying to get money.

But then if listen to the AoA crew, you have been told that one can't sue for vaccine injuries and so you might not have read the court rulings...

W&N

I have no affiliation with Merck. My concern, as an autism parent, is the health of my children and our community -- and worries that testimonials like Teresa's undermine public health. We are already seeing a resurgence in previously near-vanquished infectious diseases because of unsubstantiated vaccine fears. I want my children -- and all of yours -- to grow up healthy. Autism is a separate issue.

Freddieschnaut01, once again you are expecting us to place faith in personal testimonials -- yours, Hannah's father's (which is a Letter to the Editor, like Teresa's piece). Sneering at and ridiculing people with whom you disagree doesn't help your case.

I am not righteously indignant, I am not making false claims, and I'm not even angry.
Frankly, I'm pretty damned pleased that you two are the best and brightest Merck defenders, along with Whitey.
Your statements are so egregiously and easily proven false you are making case for safer shots every time you post. Keep going, Girl!

She doesn't have autism, huh? That is bald faced lie. Have you ever met her or her family? Guess what Toots- I have. She most certainly does, regrettably, have autism among her other diagnoses and your comments to the contrary are insulting.

Bebe and Shannon-
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJ...
Oh, darn, you know, that's too bad. Hannah Poling was paid because shots "resulted in" her "autistic like symptoms." Dang that stupid ol' internet! Sure makes you look stoooopidd.
With such smooth operators like you two banging the drum for Merck, no wonder parents are staying away in droves.
Like I said, the truth is out.
Must I pull up Baily Banks v HHS, and his award for PDD-NOS, or you think you can manage that?

Freddieschnaut01, Hannah Poling does not have autism: http://is.gd/AdHqmL.

I have qualified my statements with citations from reputable sources; what is your basis for claiming that I am lying? If you would like people to listen to you, may I suggest engaging in civil debate, and backing up your claims? Righteous indignation does not justify false accusations.

Shannon- are you forgetting Hannah Poling v HHS, and Baily Banks v HHS?

Of course your are not forgetting. You are deliberately ignoring these two VICP claims, which gives lie to your earlier post about VICP.

Why, Shannon, are you lying about the VICP, what else are you lying about?

@shannon-Exactly!!!! Vaccines have NEVER been shown to cause Autism-end of discussion!

Parents have been trying for years to prove that vaccines caused their children's autism, but not a single case has ever been found to have merit. It is not for lack of trying -- countless research studies have investigated but found no vaccine-autism link, and despite scores of parents officially pursuing their autism vaccine injury beliefs through the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP) -- which has a fairly low bar for awards -- not a single case of vaccine-caused or even exacerbated autism was ever declared. Parents like the Cedillos have gone to the mat for their beliefs, but the "experts" they brought to testify on their behalf were found to be incompetent, and the evidence against their claims was overwhelming -- the court ruled against their claims: [PDF] http://is.gd/WlMQCf.

It is obvious that children like Teresa's and the Cedillos', and their families, need better support than they are getting, and better answers, too. But the vaccine-autism issue only persists because of testimonials like Teresa's, not because it is based in fact.

Too bad there were autistic people before there were vaccines.

There is nothing scientific about a congressional subcommittee.

Thanks to the Janesville Gazette for publishing Teresa Conrick's testimonial about her daughter becoming autistic from the MMR vaccine. It is brave of you to swim against the current on this issue. My daughter got the hep-B vaccine at the hospital the day she was born, even though I had told the pediatrician I didn't want her to get it, as I had read it often caused autism. And even though a congressional sub-committee had investigated this vaccine a year before, in May 1999, and found it to be so dangerous that it recommended a moratorium be placed on its use. My baby reacted with four days and nights of inconsolable screaming. It was vaccine-induced encephalitis, and she was later diagnosed with autism.
The medical industry is not telling the truth about the frequency and severity of vaccine reactions, and it is up to the parents to protect their children by reading as much about them as possible (like Raising a Vaccine-Free Child by Wendy Lydall or The Vaccine Guide by Randall Neustaedter) so they can make as informed a decision as possible. We took a religious exemption to the vaccine requirement for school. God cannot be other than appalled at the far-reaching damage to the immune and nervous systems being inflicted by vaccines.

Hi Bebe- have you read Poling and Banks yet?

@Freddie-Wow!!! Seriously???? I hear Merck sells medications that could possibly help you with your obvious anger management-please seek help!! Your loved ones depend on you!!

Whitey- thank you yet again for proving my point that you are deliberately lying and obfuscating.
Seig Merck! Seig Merck! Seig Merck!
You go, Whitey! You are so smart and crafty!
Except....the truth is out. Vaccines kill and main healthy children, just like Vioxx killed and maimed healthy people. As with vaccine damage, Merck lies and commits criminal research fraud to enable further profits, aided and abetted by other pseudo scientific whores for hire, like you, Whitey.
Juts your turn at the ol' glory hole, eh Whitey? Enjoy!

I posted earlier about the "possibility" of immunizations setting off an autoimmune response leading to autism. It's a well known fact that doctors don't fully understand autoimmune diseases. I wish the medical profession could at least keep an open mind about the possibility of an autoimmune response instead of saying immunizations don't cause autism. Since autoimmune diseases are not fully understood, I don't see how they can say there is no connection. Perhaps, if they kept an open mind to the possibility, more research could be done. My husband's case is different, but I, like so many parents of children with autism, can pinpoint exactly when his symptoms began and there is no question in my mind that it was an autoimmune response. Doctors have made great advances in diseases such as Lyme disease and Lupus. I think if they kept an open mind about autism, they would eventually be able to find an answer. To say there is no connection means there will be no further research and no hope for answers. I find this very sad.

first, let me be clear i'm not anti-vacc, though I'm sure many would like to label me as such. I am definitely pro-choice when it comes to this matter and you do what you feel is necessary and afford those around you to make the same decision.
---
that said, peanuts do cause auto-immune responses, nobody is conveniently forgetting any of that. We know full well that minute amounts in the microgram and smaller amounts can put a child at risk for death in moments. Who is trying to force kids to eat peanuts?
---
is it the anti-vacc'd crowd that is conveniently forgetting? or is other groups that don't want to acknowledge that aluminum build up does cause neurologic issues, do we have to simply ignore the fact that hg is a very potent neurotoxin, simply because it is in a vaccine?
--
Do we also have to forget the myriad of other proteins that anitgens are made in response to when giving vaccines and not everyone can respond to them well. Is it a wonder we have so many auto-immune problems these days? It's been shown many times that antigens created in vacc's in animals cause that animal to attack itself, yet we ignore that it is a very real possibility in humans.
---
There is no doubt that many people have a stake in this and argue without having a real good understanding of what is being said, studied or happening. and in the end, to me it doesn't really matter, everyone should be allowed their choice.
--
There are plenty of well educated and knowledgeable people from researchers to dr's that have issues with our public vaccine policies. It's easy for those with an agenda backed by billions to marginalize them to the masses that have very little understanding.

That is a good discussion there W&N. Too bad it doesn't just say what you want it too. I did read and can understand simple English. It seems you're having trouble understanding your linked transcript that you keep using as "proof".
---I find nowhere that they are studying unvacc'd kids with vaccinated. They have one catagory at 3 months of age that don't have an accumulation of Hg in their blood. They aren't studing groups of vacc'd and unvacc'd and following them thru their lives. It's not happening, it hasn't happened in this study, and you're grossly misrepresenting what this convention was about or what was said.
--
They also had this to say,---
"In conclusion, the screening analysis suggests a possible association between certain neurologic developmental disorders. Namely Tics, attention deficit disorder, speech and language disorders and exposure to mercury from Thimerisol containing vaccines before the age of 6 months."--
--
Beyond that, there are a lot of things wrong with this "study" that is discussed in length in the transcript. Things that point both towards the efficacy of vaccines and towards damages they can cause as well but I'd hardly consider this study as a glowing example of either. In fact, it is a study, but I find it to be a rather poor one.
--
it is clear you have so grossly mis-represented it, I'm not sure it's in anyone's interest to even try having a discussion with you. People that go to the lengths you have to misrepresent something to prove their point, often have nothing more in mind that pushing their agenda, with an obviously misguided understanding of what is happening or being said. Good luck to you.

whiteandnerdy, while I agree with you on substance, there are some problems that need to be mentioned. First off, the study itself is not really scientific because the datasets are not available for analysis to anyone but the researchers themselves, so how exactly would fraud be detected. Also, the government has run experiment on its citizens in the past and has denied it only to later admit it. So, people are rightfully suspicious especially when it was the EPA, government scientists, who initially sounded the alarm in the first place.

That being said, most of the problem with the anti-vacs is that they confuse correlation with causation. They claim that aluminum and thimerosol cause auto-immune responses while conveniently forgetting that peanuts do so as well.

Whiteandnerdy wrote: "2) Thimerosal isn't "a mercury". You don't understand the chemistry. And it boggles the mind that after decades of toxicologists explaining that there are no toxins in vaccines you still get this simple fact wrong."
-
In fact, thimersol is an organmercury- a mercury compound. Thiomersal is very toxic by inhalation, ingestion, and in contact with skin, with a danger of cumulative effects. Few studies of the toxicity of thiomersal in humans have been performed.
-
Is Whiteandnerdy intentionally spreading misinformation on the vaccination subject, maybe with a stake in the big pharma industry, or just refuses to look at facts that he/she doesn't agree with?

Lesserbirds and Sudsysue-

Thank you both for your comments. I hope your loved ones affected by vaccine injury will improve. Meg's recent speech testing put her at 18 months, the age where she started to regress after her MMR. Though she is nonverbal but has some receptive language, speech therapy could not address the severe nature of her injury. Now we are more concerned with seizures and what the autoimmune condition means as far as what her body is actually fighting. I try to be optimistic and hope that good research will show us treatments aimed at imroving health and functioning of our ill and affected children. Best wishes. Teresa Conrick

Freddieschnaut01,

Really, are suppose to be surprised?
You ignored the long list of legal/ethical/scientific misconduct of the anti-vaccs.

And it was too hard for you to fact-check any of the 5 anti-vacc claims that you posted. Apparently you think name calling is good substitute for your research failures.

Look at this from June 2000:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2887572/Simpso...

People with basic reading skills, an the integrity to actually read what is on the pages will find in simple English words that:
(1) the data set was 110,000 kids (page 34)
(2) the controls got ZERO vaccines (page 35)--this point comes up several times
(3)the results for autism? There was no difference in risk for vaccinated and kids that got ZERO vaccines (page 44).

Bonus: anyone that Googles something like "W&N 100% unvaccinated" can trace how the anti-vaccs have continually been dishonest about the facts in the transcript.

But then that is the point about running a healthcare fraud--one has to con people that just lack the ability to figure out they are being scammed.

The sort of people that just can't figure out that they should read the Poling case (not compensated for autism) or the Bank's cases (not about autism/PDD-NOS either--again right in the ruling).

The rulings are available on the courts site for all to read:
http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/

But please, let's be serious here.

There is no chance you will admit to the actual words in the Simpsonwood transcript, or the Poling ruling, or the Banks ruling because that would mean you admitting that the anti-vaccs have played you for a fool and all you had to do was to read...

Thanks for playing,
W&N

Thank you Whitey for again demonstrating you are an uninformed liar, or an informed liar, with an agenda.
Where is the citation for the vax v unvaxxed kids you keep lying exists?
Like Goebbels, you and your ilk believe if you repeat the same lies often enough people will believe them.
Wrong. Social media gets around media censorship. The game is up. The truth is out. Vaccines cause brain injury and death. Just read the posts to this article.
Keep defending the proven felonious liars at Merck, Whitey. They lied about Vioxx Whitey. 120,000 vascular events, 40,000 deaths.
Your voice is like a gnat farting into a hurricane. No one believes you. You are irrelevant. No one cares what you say, you are like an insane person talking to a pigeon.
What is the citation for the vax v unvax study, Liar Whitey?

redhead60707,

Re your Dec 5, 2011 at 11:14 p.m. posting.

Delong's training is in business. She is not an epidemiologist and (to be charitable) doesn't understand how to do the study correctly.

She is a long-time anti-vaccs advocate that has produced a totally bogus study and used the standard anti-vacc publication strategy.

She found a fringe journal, that lacks expertise in epidemiology and autism--that is to say, who couldn't adequately referee the paper--and thus sneaked it by the editors.

The study is utterly without merit and the fact that you offer it to support your POV simply demonstrates again the fact that AoA is less than clueless about the science.

Our kid's health is important enough to get the science correct. Too bad AoA has zero scientists...

W&N

My pointless take is this:
Do you have a choice Yes or No? If Yes, then it's YOUR child and it's YOUR choice any decision you chose is YOURS and thats that. If this decision took place in Janesville Wi. and your child is about 13 give or take two years and has Autism, a bigger question needs to be asked..

Freddieschnaut01,

I agree, justice is being served.

The vaccines causes autism con-people have become so egregious in their actions that they are losing their medical licenses, losing their income streams from bogus legal actions, being reprimanded by the courts for their unethical conduct. And now the "biomed docs", the testing labs, and the anti-vaccs attorneys are being sued by families abused by them.

Legally, things are looking pretty bad for the anti-vaccs; but then you might not be aware of all their legal problems. Some sites don't seem interested in these facts....

Anyway, you made 5 standard anti-vaccs assertions. They are all wrong, a fact you can easily see if spend ~1min fact-checking.

If any of these are too hard for you to figure out, please choose one I will show how to prove that the claims are wrong.

W&N

redhead60707,

Re your Dec 5, 2011 at 9:04 p.m. posting.

Another rant filled with personal comments about me where you simply refuse to deal with the facts/issues. Not really surprising since the point is that AoA gets pretty much everything wrong.

I think your real problem is very clear. By now all the readers here have had the time to go to Google and find the truth. There is data on 100% unvaccinated kids, their risk for autism is the same for vaccinated kids. And most importantly, they can see how many times this data has been provided to the AoA crew.

So your real problem isn't that AoA gets things wrong, no your real problem is that you can't pretend that these are just honest mistakes.

No wonder your actions have been to try and distract readers from looking at the facts.

But I do very much appreciate your humor.

Freedom speech? The fact is AoA censors comments. They are the ones that suppress freedom of speech.

I think the reasons for AoA censorship are obvious. Consider their posting on Mr. Brabant. If they didn't censor someone might actually post definitions. Imagine that, an article and (currently) 15 comments and none of the AoA crew could correctly read the facts.....

Civil discussion? Look at your postings here....more to the point, we can all read the AoA postings--many of which I can't quote here because they so grossly violate the TOS of this site. But AoA is clearly OK with the most egregious personal attacks, advocating violence etc, etc. Clearly any moral person would condemn these actions. Where have you done so?

W&N

Our Grandsons were damaged by their vaccines. It has been a nightmare that no one wants! The insurance refuses to pay for any help! I've seen our beautiful grandchildren go from healthy, alert, happy boys to struggling children who haven't been able to have a childhood!
Companies, our doctors, our government, television, radio and our newspapers tell us to have flu shots. Did you ever check to see how much mercury was in the shot? Guess what! There's more mercury in the shot than the FDA says is toxic for an adult! Now suppose a pregnant woman gets the shot. How much mercury do you think a developing fetus can tolerate before damage is done?

Our country should hang their heads in shame for allowing this to happen to so many children! How long are we going to allow this to happen! What's going to happen to all these children when they get older? Who & how are they going to be cared for?

Thank you to the Janesville Gazette for allowing Teresa Conrick to tell her story!

I really appreciate what you wrote.

My son was injured from an MMR shot when he was 18 months old.

He was very friendly and outgoing, but a few hours after his MMR shot, he developed a high fever and screamed all night.

The following day, he would not allow us to hold him, his language was all but gone, and he stopped smiling.

Just a coincidence?

Did your child get the Autism from Mercy? I never met a child of Autism until I moved to Janesville, heck you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one.

Sure Mooshoo, like that oral polio vaccine that was so safe. Oh yeah, they had to discontinue it because it was casuing polio.
.
Don't pity me, I am neither naive nor misinformed. Nice try with the apocolyptic fear mongering though.

Parents need to educate themselves on both sides of the vaccine issue. After watching my son cry and wail for over 6 hours and the advice of our pediatrician I am glad he was not given the pertussis part of the vaccine booster. A lot has been said and posted on both sides of the issue. Being informed is not something any parent should ignore. Would I recommend the DPT vaccine to anyone else. No. That is a parents decision and not mine to make. Make informed decisions and weigh out both sides of the issue before declaring it harmful or worth the risk. The MMR vaccine was not an issue with our children even though I had German Measles(rubella)as a child. The pharmaceutical companies do have a lot to fear if their vaccines are linked to autism or anything else. Make informed decisions.

Let nature decide, we have to many humans.

Respectfully, folks are conflating adverse vaccine reactions with vaccine-autism causation. They are two separate matters. The first is real, though extremely rare, and can be tragic. The second is unsubstantiated. The Gayle DeLong article you cite has been roundly dismissed, and not just because she is a board member of SafeMinds, an org dedicated to mercury-vaccine-autism causation. Here's a thorough analysis of why the article does not prove that vaccines cause autism: http://biologyfiles.fieldofscience.com/2...

Our youngest son received his vaccinations as scheduled and after the 1st DPT shot he had an adverse reaction and sounded like a wounded animal for over 6 hours. When I called his pediatrician he heard him over the phone and said no more pertussis vaccine for him. That was in 1985. The pediatrician has since retired, but he must have had an inkling about the shot. He only received the DT shot booster. Thankfully, he suffered no lasting effects but I hesitate to wonder what would have happened had he had the booster shot with pertussis in it. Our 1st born had no ill effects. I do believe the shot should be studied further for it's effects and maybe research should be directed at cures for Diphtheria and Pertussis and stop relying on the vaccines so much in light of recent research.

I feel sorry for the misinformed and the naive that do not vaccinate their children. At some point in the future when epidemics rage, your kids will die of disease they could have had been immunized against. I think you might feel different about vaccination if the very few survivors of small pox were now walking around with pox scars all over their face and bodies. Perhaps we need to show pictures of polio cripples in wheelchairs with drool running down their chins to convince young mothers that vaccination is the right thing to do for their kids. Need I paint a more graphic picture?

I will forever regret vaccinating. My son was dead within hours of his four month boosters. Doctors convinced me that my daughter, born a few years later still needed her vaccines (he did agree to delay them) since her brother's death was not related to the vaccines. He just happened to get them the same day is all. My daughter suffered a life threatning reaction with in hours which she was hospitalized for 4 days and nearly a year of PT to follow. After her reation she could not walk,talk or make eye contact. Thankfully she is fully recovered. With no explanation from the medical elite they wanted to finish her vaccines. Why should they care; they don't suffer the consequenses. Our pediatrician went as far as to lie to me about our state exemptions. Oh yeah her hospital stay and symptoms had to do with the vaccines. Our two younger children are vaccine-free. No sudden deaths or hospitals. Now that I know is related to the vaccines.

I keep seeing comments here and elsewhere in cyber world that unvaxxed families should be held responsible for a naturally occuring disease. Vaccinated kids still get the disease! Unvaccinated does not equate to infected. Vaccinated kids carry alsmost all of the infectious diseases and can spread (shedding) them, posing a risk to the unvaccinated and vulnerable.

They try again and again to mimic immunity. One vaccine then a boo$ter then another and another. Oops we didn't know immunity would wane so quickly! OK teenagers line up more boo$ter$ then another and another. Damn that waning immunity again! Calling all parents boo$ter$ more boo$ter$. Seniors get your boo$ter$. The only herd anything is the fear induced sheeple drives hosted by the CDC a few times a year. Give it up already.

Perhaps people would better be served by proper disease managment improving the survivability. We lerned this with TB and other diseases not vaxxed for.

shannonrosa-

My story is another incident showing what so many others are seeing - vaccines can and do harm. Your attempt to minimize or deny it seems to be your mission here. I think we need to push for more research to see if there are some who are more predisposed to injury. To allow my daughter and so many others to be victims without determining why is allowing more unanswered questions to remain on why some are injured - especially at an increasing rate - and why others are spared. Here is an example but we need more research:

A positive association found between autism prevalence and childhood vaccination uptake across the U.S. population.
Delong G.
J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2011 Jan;74(14):903-16
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21623...

Its interesting to consider the pertussis outbreak. The CA population is highly vaccinated but the vaccinated got pertussis anyway. The babies who died were from poor areas and the tragic infant deaths followed multiple healthcare visits that missed the symptoms -- possibly clinics/ERs -- and the deaths were officially due to misdiagnosis. All but one were Latino; a group in CA that has comparatively low rates of breastfeeding which may have contributed to the susceptibility of the unvaccinated infants; Latinos of Mexican heritage also commonly have DR4 homologous haplotypes which can cause differential immune response to both vaccination and to infection. The interim CDC reports to ACIP, as well as the CDH analysis, pretty clearly show in their pretty charts that the DTaP is ineffective against current circulating strains compared to the previous generation DTP shots given to the prior generation, which offered more cross-protection. Other studies from Europe suggest antigenic drift and poor selection decisions as to the strains in the aP vaccines may be to blame. So why should my kid follow CDC/CDH mandate to get a booster of a shot that carries a risk of side effects and yet demonstrably doesn't work? And why won't CDC advocate for single antigen vaccines, such as stand-alone pertussis vaccine, which would cut down on antigenic interference and also make for a more nimble public health response? What, exactly, is the point of pairing an antigen like aP -- which apparently needs to be boosted every 4 years -- with an antigen like tetanus which recent studies have shown lasts far longer than 10? It's asinine policy, and the public smells it.

Teresa, your story is a testimonial. I know you believe what you are writing, but asserting that "we" know vaccines can cause autism doesn't make it true. No legitimate research supports your claims of causation, and the scientific "evidence" that sites like AoA tend to cite is not taken seriously outside of anti-vaccination circles. Your bigger question should be best practices and attitudes for supporting your daughter and her peers.

Freddieschnaut01, autism is listed under "Adverse events reported during post-approval use." That is not evidence, that is an unverified report, much like the reporting at VAERS. Much like what Teresa is doing here.

shannonrosa-

I don't think discussing what happened to my daughter and showing research that backs up the medical pieces is "misinformation." I think it is important for people to know and weigh the information. You are incorrect as there is research. We know vaccines can harm and can cause autism - the bigger question now is what to do about that?

Shannon- if there is no link between autism and vax, why does the FDA package insert for DTaP list autism as an adverse reactionto the DTaP shot? For sh.ts and giggles?
That package insert exists. Accordingly, there is a clear, demonstrable link between shots and autism. The link is spelled out in the DTaP FDA mandated package insert. Is that clear enough?

White and Nerdy- what vaccine injuries do you acknowledge?
Is the VICP another AoA fantasy, or does it compensate children who are dead or maimed from shots?
What vax v unvax study are you imagining? There aren't any, are there, Whitey? Except in your mind. There are no such studies because if they were done, the extent of the fraud would be even more grossly apparent.
Why do countries that have more mandated vaccines have higher infant mortality rates?
Why does the FDA mandate a printed warning label for DTaP specifying SIDS and autism as adverse effects?
Why was Poling paid for autism resulting from her shots?
Why was Bailey Banks paid for PDD-NOS?
Virtually every post you make is objectively, demonstrably false, from "no toxins in vaccines," to vax and vax kids have same rate of autism.

Your comments are exactly equal to vaccine maker Merck producing research demonstrating that Vioxx is perfectly safe, except it isn't. Merck will never again be owed public trust, or the benefit of the doubt, neither are you.
Because the likes of you, and your mass murdering accomplices at Merck, keep repeating over and over the same, stale lies, you think you should be believed? Get over it, Whitey. The jig is up. Too many parents, doctors, scientists, rational human beings, have personally observed the vaccine regression. There is no more hiding. The truth is out. The corporation is using you to do the wet work, when they are done with you see how loyal they are to you.
Watch out Whitey. Justice will be served. You are a willing accomplice to the travesty. Why not clear you conscience and do something to make amends? Tell what you really know, Whitey. Blow the whistle and finally do some good to save your soul.

Sure would be helpful if each commentor would reveal affiliations and/or conflicts of interest. After reading over these posts I have concluded that many are associated or connected to the vaccine industry.
cycle3man, grandpa to a vaccine damaged child. No other affiliations

Writing and promoting autism-vaccine misinformation when no link between the two exists may fall under free speech, but it can have real life, deadly consequences. Unvaccinated children can and do die from vaccine-preventable disease, and every one of those deaths is a tragedy -- especially when the disease is spread by asymptomatic unvaccinated carriers to infants too young to be immunized, to the immuno-compromised, to the elderly, and to other vulnerable populations. It's not just talk. It's influence. And it has no basis in fact, despite a research investment of several years and countless dollars.

As I stated, W&N does not show honesty regarding truth or science. It is about working the Internet and trying to squelch all comments that have to do with vaccine injuries. Your attempt here to minimize and deny my words, the research and what has happened to my daughter, is without merit or integrity.

Your mission is to search and try to destroy any attempts of civil discussions regarding vaccination choice. You only look pathetic and desperate with made up errors in my writing or in trying to show that Age of Autism is anything other than a passionate group of parents, researchers and writers who advocate for many children and families.

If people want to vaccinate - let them. If others have been harmed by vaccines then let them discuss it. What is your problem with freedom of speech?

redhead60707,

A response full of personal comments about me but zero substance--big surprise...

Most people can see the advertising, the books they are selling etc, and figure out that Age of Autism makes money. Did you not notice that the web site is dot.com?

Using only our basic reading skills we can all see the facts.

(1) that there is data on 100% unvaccinated kids.
(2) that the 100% unvaccinated kids had the same risk for autism as vaccinated kids
(3) this information has been provided to many Age of Autism editors/contributors--and yet no matter how many times their error is corrected, they still are unable or unwilling to get the facts correct.

What really burns you is that over a period of years I have posted the original documents on many different subjects and the Age of Autism crew just keeps claiming things that they know are not true.

Rather fits with the courts' opinions--they have ruled all the vaccines cause autism arguments junk science and characterized those that make these arguments as lying to get money.

Of course--as you very well know--the Age of Autism solution is to tell people that one cant sue for vaccine injuries.

Would you like to play a game? Spend 5 mins and see how many times the Editors of Age of Autism have had it proven to them that one can sue for vaccine injuries, and how many times they keep falsely claiming otherwise.

Not interested? Newsflash--most parents find this exercise very revealing.

W&N

Wow, this is gettin good. So far White and nerdy is scoring complete pwnage.

Ms Conrick,

The very inconvenient truth is that Age of Autism uses censorship and the most egregious personal attacks to hide their gross scientific illiteracy. You have been kind enough to demonstrate this fact.

(1) The Penn State study is actually called " Acellular pertussis vaccination facilitates Bordetella parapertussis infection in a rodent model of bordetellosis"

Your comments about herd immunity clearly demonstrate that you didn't understand the paper and that you don't even understand what the term herd immunity means. FTR the paper has nothing to do with herd immunity.

(2) Thimerosal isn't "a mercury". You don't understand the chemistry. And it boggles the mind that after decades of toxicologists explaining that there are no toxins in vaccines you still get this simple fact wrong.

(3) You should try getting your science from scientists rather than the NY times. Pertussis risk is dramatically increased by exemptions from vaccinations.
See e.g. JAMA. 2000 Dec 27;284(24):3145-50.

(4) the number of cases of pertussis is meaningless without also providing information on how testing has changed and how easy it is now to diagnosis cases that historically would have been missed.

(5) the data showing that (i) autism starts during embryonic development, (ii) the kids are not developing normally despite the parents belief to the contrary, (iii) the anti-vaccs efforts to suppress these facts, is a matter of public record. It is shameful how Age of Autism attempts to fabricate vaccine injuries.

Bottom line: the world rejects Age of Autism arguments because they are completely without merit.

BTW: today's entry at Age of Autism--the reporting on Mr. Brabant's health problems--isn't even functionally literate. The world is laughing at this foolishness...

W&N

Hi. I am the author of this OpEd. This post is in regards to the comment left by whiteandnerdy.

You appear all over the internet whenever a parent describes a vaccine injury, you appear and make horrible comments. Whenever a news show gives factual data, you show up citing inaccurate data. Your comment here is again an example of inappropriate and incongruent nonsense.

Age of Autism has no profit motive nor do we make a penny/salary for describing the hardships our children endure as well as our families to take care of their medical needs.

Your other comment about some study of 10 years ago is a fantasy that you are having. To use the name "W&N" is in bad taste but to then push your sarcasm on a topic as sensitive as children dealing with major medical issues due to mandated vaccines is verging on sadistic. Your intrusive behaviors would make many wonder what your real motivation is?

Teresa Conrick

Quote from the article:
“This fire was stoked by British medical researcher Andrew Wakefield in his now infamous 1998 press conference, in which he linked the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine to the onset of autism.”
My Response:
I find this statement or equivalent statement written and quoted over and over again. Dr Wakefield NEVER did not link nor did he perform a study linking Autism to the MMR jab.
Twelve children with a diagnosis of Autism were brought to Dr Wakefield for examination and possibly treatment for severe stomach pain. Upon examination, Dr Wakefield found the measles virus identical to that of measles part of the MMR vaccine playing havoc in the stomachs of these children. Dr Wakefield suspected that this condition MAY be the cause of some children being struck Autistic and called for studies. His suggestion was in conflict with powerful organizations and people all having a heavy stake in the status quo. These forces went on a campaign to eliminate Dr Wakefield and were successful. Sure was and continues to be a black mark on those responsible for this travesty!!!
I am a lay person, with a beautiful grandson who received the full FDA schedule of vaccines, and made all developmental benchmarks, when at 18 months was struck Autistic after receiving the MMR jab. This beautiful child has never been normal since that day

Respectfully -- and with the hope that Teresa's daughter gets the support she needs to help live a productive life and manage her seizures -- evidence does not support a vaccine-autism link, despite years of research and passionate parent stories like this one. Why?

"Early toddlerhood is when major vaccines like the MMR (measles, mumps, and rubella) are given—and also when autism symptoms often start to manifest. Parents who see vaccinations and autism happen in tandem may easily mistake coincidence for causation."

From http://www.impatientoptimists.org/posts/....

People who are made uncomfortable by questioning vaccine safety tend to overlook the fact that the people who talk about the connection between vaccines and a variety of disorders are the ones who vaccinated right up until something really bad happened. It is long past time to have a very clear discussion of current vaccination policy in this country. CDC, FDA and HHS have squandered their moral and scientific authority in this debate by clinging to the mantra that all vaccines are safe and effective for all people when the evidence very clearly shows they are not. In the face of the volume of lives that are being devastated, it is no longer tenable for public health officials to continue their policy of recommending every single shot that comes down the pike and then vilifying those who speak out about being injured. It's time to publicly state that the injured are real not "coincidental", but in their eyes are "acceptable" collateral damage in the war on disease. The adversarial stance must stop, and the same extensive resources devoted to individualized vaccine development must also be devoted to individualized vaccine safety. Until that happens, people will continue to turn away from vaccines in droves because their trust has been abused.

Ms Dachel,

The data on vaccinated vs 100% unvaccinated kids is more than a decade old. Just like every other time, there was no difference in risk for autism.

The real question is, why does the for-profit Age of Autism marketing efforts continue to claim things that they know are not true?

W&N

I’m tellin’ ya’, my wish is the only path to getting the appropriate testing, that is, to a standard of “DO NO HARM” of these vaccines before they are given approval for mass inoculation. And to get meaning studies to once and for all, on the already approved vaccines and the FDA recommended vaccination schedule. The parents of the thousands of children, that watched their children retrogress after meeting all developmental benchmarks, after receiving a jab or two,.are not crazy for suspecting the vaccines.
So here is my wish: May the first born or first born grandchild of all those standing in the way of performing the testing and studies described above, be struck slightly autistic. At that point the testing and studies would get onto the fast track!!!!

Janesvillian- here is some more drivel for you, courtesy of the FDA package insert for a vaccine:"‘Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting.’ The third one after SIDS is autism, courtesy of who? Those crazy fringe anti vaxxers at the FDA? Uh huh. What else you got in your empty "vaccines don't cause autism" nonsense argument? Some nice epidemiology, perhaps? You can argue with the FDA all day, I don't think they're going to change the warning label. When you're done with them actually do some reading and look up Poling V HHS, or Baily v HHS. You will learn that vaccines result in autism, according to the US Gubermint.

Bebe- what do you mean "supposed injuries?" Are you asserting that children going through VICP, actually paid settlements, are not vaccine injured? That is big, bold statement- got any proof, or is it just a kind of feeling you have?

When I vaccinate my children I pay into the VICP. I take far more personal responsibility than you apparently do to prevent children from dying and suffering permanent brain injury. I advocate parents educate themselves and make informed choices. What do you advocate? Blind allegiance to a one size fits all medical intervention that unequivacably causes harm to some kids? You are obviously concerned for child safety, which I admire, however your views on this very important subject seem to be more informed by emotion than by actual research and hard science.

In the animal world, vaccination and the damage caused is well known, researched, studied and proven. A bit tougher with humans, we can't just cage them and study them. It's funny how it's an accepted part of vaccination when it comes to animals, but when it comes to humans??? Oh no, none of this could ever happen to humans. Neruologic damage?? Never, autoimmune disorders? couldn't happen, Conditions that cause the thyroid to dysfunction?? Not in people. Conditions like lupus and diabetes caused by vaccines in animals, can never happen in people.
---like I said
Let people live by their own decisions. Your kid is more likely to die by your careless driving, than anything to do with vaccines or the disease they may protect you from.

I'm disappointed janesvillean. You're more intelligent than to just believe what big pharma spits out as gospel truth.
.
Putting the autism issue aside, there are other dangerous reactions that come from vaccines. Ask any mother who has watched their child turn from a normal happy child to completely withdrawn and non-communicative within hours of a vaccine. So many parents describe helplessly watching as "the spark goes out" of their child. And to have the entire medical community declare it a coincendence just because it happened right after the immune system was assaulted adds insult to injury.
.
I really thought you were better than to call someone "dangerous" who makes an informed decision on what is best for their child after taking stock of the risks and benefits. Thank goodness we still (for now) have a choice to not inject our children with God knows what just because the governmet says we should.

Janesvillean- I hope none of your children or grandchildren ever develop a syndrome after receiving a vaccination. Do you think maybe double blind research evidence against vaccinations is hard to come by because the $200B pharmaceutical industry underwrites the research ? Revolting against dangerous government mandates always starts with a relative few "fringe" outspoken citizens. While, at the same time, virtually all interested players, including big pharma, government funded university researchers, the CDC, and Health and Human Services have much to lose if they don't "play the game".

@Freddie-we already do take responsibility for the supposed injuries through the VICP-which is at least more than you are willing to do when you pass on your mis-guided half truths against vaccines and then refuse to take responsibility for completely avoidable illness/death-nice cop-out on your part

I guess I didn't make myself clear.
.
THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO EVIDENCE. Vaccines are not perfect, of course, and adverse reactions happen. THAT IS NOT PROOF THAT THEY CAUSE AUTISM. Science just doesn't work that way.
.
Fear, uncertainty, and doubt however -- that's a great propaganda technique.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/inde...
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/euro...
.
Some of these people are just grasping at straws. Others are educated adults who should know better, but prefer superstition and suspicion to actual science. They are creating a dangerous situation for YOU and YOUR children by rejecting a standard of public health. THEY SHOULD NOT BE LISTENED TO.
.
It's appalling that the Gazette publishes this drivel, given the likely outcome is a decline in vaccination rates. Make no mistake. THIS IS DANGEROUS.

Bebe- in the immortal words of Bebe, "blah blah blah you never did answer my question did you?" Will you take responsibility for the children who are maimed and killed for taking your advice?

Responsible science indisputably proves that some children are killed and maimed by vaccines, hence the VICP. Only a "flat earher" would argue otherwise. Right?

The simple fact you have to use words like "lunatic", "fringe", "loons" etc, illustrates perfectly how little you really know of the issue.
--
you would like to believe it all comes from the "fringe" and baseless internet claims. it helps you sleep better at night. It's perfectly understandable, it's a normal part of the human psyche. But it doesn't make you any more "right" than those that don't think exactly like you do.

Lovemycountry is nothing more than a reactionary zealot who eschews responsible science in favor of politically correct,backwards,uneducated loons who believe anything they see or post on fringe web sites with no basis in fact or reality

bebe53 is one that stands at the alter of revolving door government bureaucrats and bought politicans and waits for their next pronouncement. "Subsidize ethanol, cause burning our food makes sense!" "Let's start a prohibition on all alcohol!" "Put all the Japanese in internment camps!" "Have your child vaccinated 32 times before the age of two!"

IF vaccines were 100% effective or even close and the disease that deadly and there weren't any adverse reactions, most of which have absolutely nothing to do with autism, there wouldn't be much of a debate would there? But alas, none of those things are true.
---
so do what you feel is best for you children and yourself, and afford others to make the same choices for their families.

Bebe-Merck's Vioxx killed an estimated otherwise healthy 40,000 people. Who takes responsibility for that? Merck committed research fraud and as a result, people died.
Merck makes pediatric vaccines.
Should anyone at Merck be held responsible for the fact that Merck deliberately witheld knowledge that their drug was causing people to have heart attacks and strokes?
I would not trust Merck's tobacco science epidemiological nonsense about vaccines anymore that I trust the tobacco institute on tobacco. I think there is a chance, however slight, that the research might be, well, biased.

Bebe- no Bebe I will not take responsibility for a child who dies of vaccine preventable disease. Will you take responsibility for children who are maimed and killed by vaccines?

@Freddie-blah,blah,blah,blah,blah......You never did answer my question did you??? Put up or shut up as they say.

Bebe- are you aware of the existence of the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program? Billions have been paid out since 1986 to families of children killed or brain damaged by vaccines.
If you are maintaining that vaccines are without harm, you are incorrect.
Unvaccinated children are not a problem to you or to me. If you feel that strongly about it, go get yourself and your kids the shots, all 33 vaccine events suggested for first 24 months. Than load up on the HPV shot too. It is your right.
It is my right to be an informed consumer and choose carefully what I voluntarily introduce into my body or my child's.
Vaccination is a voluntary medical procedure with some benefits and some risks. Like abortion, it is an individual's choice.
I posted earlier about the DTap Triepdia warning label. Have your read it? Is the FDA composed of anti vaccine conspiracy nuts, or are the adverse reactions reported for DTaP real? convulsions, autism, SIDS, anaphalytic reaction, epilepsy, death neuropathy, encphalitis, etc?

@lovemycountry-ditto for you

@Freddie and taramc-denial is such an easy out for you-so sad-when people who listen to you don't vaccinate their children because of what you recommend/encourage will you take any responsibility if their children suffer or die from completely preventable illnesses?? Just curious.....

bebe53 - be less gullible and follow the money. That author, Paul Offitt, is protecting his profit. He's a paid consultant for Merck, paid to travel around and promote the safety of vaccines, he also holds a patent for a rotavirus vaccine being developed by Merck when he sat on the approval board for the first rotavirus vaccine licensed, Rotashield, in 1999.

paul offit invented a vaccine- he will only talk bad about people that think vaccines and know vaccine are bad. He has lots to loose if people don't vaccinate- he will loose money- so naturally he is defending his business, not helping kids.

Bebe- Dr. Offit has never examined an autistic child. He is vaccine profiteer. Were you aware of his conflicts of interest when your read and recommended his book? He has made quite literally tens of millions of dollars off of vaccines. I prefer my data from an unbiased source.

Every anti-vaccine hysteric needs to read "Autisms False Prophets" by Paul Offitt

The story of Lorrin Kain was recently published by Age of Autism. Lorrin was a recognized case of vaccine injury. She was compensated by the United States government. There are plenty of reasons for parents to get informed about vaccine side effects.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/11/the-s...

Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism http://www.ageofautism.com

I have to say that The CDC and every vaccine maker- are running scared- and they will do anything to prove that there vaccines are safe. This simply isn't true- they are not safe, and there are reactions that are being ignored by doctors, this is where kids fall into the "Autism Abyss" and kids have autism because the vaccine injuries are not addressed. Doctors need to me more vigilant, and care for kids, not ignore the injuries. If after a vaccination- they are sick- its because of the vaccine- and nothing else.
That's called common sense.

Anecdote alert: I go to one of the best pediatrician's groups around. They stopped using Pediarix (the 5 way) and do not recommend vaccinating with the HPV vaccine.

Janesvillian- you are wrong. Hannah Poling v HHS demonstrates vaccines do result in autism.
The FDA package insert for Tripedia (DTaP) lists autism as a post licensing reported adervse reaction.
Why focus on just autism? Flat earthers in this situation are those who deny the overwhelming and easily accessible data which shows vaccines kill and brain damage some kids. That is why we have the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, that is why Supremem Court in Bruseweitz v Wyeth stated vaccines are "unavoidably unsafe."

Antireactionary- you are mistaken. Autism was first described in 1943, thimerosal laced vaccines were introduced in the 1930s.

This is an example of someone saying the world is flat and the newspaper printing "Views Differ on Shape of World." There is no scientific evidence that vaccines cause autism, and plenty of scientific evidence that avoiding vaccination means the loss of herd immunity to some very devastating communicable diseases.
.
These people have had a tragic situation in their family and are searching for a cause they can blame. I feel for them. But they are dangerous and misguided.

AMD -- a study on kids given / not given vaccines would prove little. The reality is that the kids given the vaccines (assuming a 50/50 split) would limit the risk of disease and transmission. So there would still be significant mitigation of the risk. You would still need to make fairly severe assumptions would would render the results nearly useless. Given what we do know for sure based upon history and the mitigation and near eleimination of some diseeases which kids are vaccinated against, at this time the data certainly shows that vaccination is much safer. You will never live nor be without risk. Thats simply not possible. But the arguement has been satisfied to the satisfaction of most, and while I feel for this family, the end result for the general population is a positive one.

@ antireactionary - so what you're saying is ignore all evidence if it doesn't conclude that there is a causal association right? What you're forgetting is that the vast majority of times a LACK of causal association isn't proved either, so to dismiss all that evidence would be a gross error.

As an aside, Dr. Christopher Shaw, PhD, has been studying the effects of aluminum for years and just had his latest study accepted in the Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry entitled "Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to the rising prevalence of autism?"

ABSTRACT - Autism spectrum disorders (ASD) are serious multisystem developmental disorders and an urgent global public health concern. Dysfunctional immunity and impaired brain function are core deficits in ASD. Aluminum (Al), the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant, is a demonstrated neurotoxin and a strong immune stimulator. Hence, adjuvant Al has the potential to induce neuroimmune disorders. When assessing adjuvant toxicity in children, two key points ought to be considered: (i) children should not be viewed as “small adults” as their unique physiology makes them much more vulnerable to toxic insults; and (ii) if exposure to Al fromonly few vaccines can lead to cognitive impairment and autoimmunity in adults, is it unreasonable to question whether the current pediatric schedules, often containing 18 Al adjuvanted vaccines, are safe for children? By applying Hill's criteria for establishing causality between exposure and outcome we investigated whether exposure to Al from vaccines could be contributing to the rise in ASD prevalence in the Western world. Our results show that: (i) children from countries with the highest ASD prevalence appear to have the highest exposure to Al from vaccines; (ii) the increase in exposure to Al adjuvants significantly correlates with the increase in ASD prevalence in the United States observed over the last two decades (Pearson r=0.92, pb0.0001); and (iii) a significant correlation exists between the amounts of Al administered to preschool children and the current prevalence of ASD in seven Western countries, particularly at 3–4 months of age (Pearson r=0.89–0.94, p=0.0018–0.0248). The application of the Hill's criteria to these data indicates that the correlation between Al in vaccines and ASD may be causal. Because children represent a fraction of the population most at risk for complications following exposure to Al, a more rigorous evaluation of Al adjuvant safety seems warranted.

REPEAT - The application of the Hill's criteria to these data indicates that the correlation between Al in vaccines and ASD may be causal.

It would be nice if we could spend more money on research for this and cancer instead of giving 500 million, ofour tax dollars, to a failed solar company when Obama was advised not to. Sad.

I have personally witnessed the heartbreaking deadly effect of multiple vaccinations on a beloved pet. Unlike our own bloated medical industrial complex, the profession of veterinary medicine responded quickly to convincing evidence of vaccine-related animal injuries by adjusting their recommended vaccination schedules.

Autism is defined by the DSM manual. Since autism is regarded as a genetically transmitted disorder, a child will not be evaluated by meaningful medical tests in regards to the painful symptoms. Inflammation or infections do not correlate with the DSM criteria and is not treated by behavior psychologists.
But if psychologists were required to master chemistry before they could prescribe chemicals, the psychiatric community would realize all Toxins such as Heavy Metals, Copper, Mercury, Aluminum, etc., sugar, food preservatives, alcohol, household cleaners, VOC's (Volatile Organic Compounds), bleach, and other industrial chemicals in our environment, all cause a Stress reaction in the body.
Vaccination is one of many sources of toxins that can cause a stress reaction that would over-stimulate the Adrenals especially in babies. Copper and other Heavy Metals which have accumulated after several vaccines continue to create internal Stress reactions which both stimulate the release of energy and also continue to deplete one's stores of energy. These internal Toxins become sources of stress and agitation that prevent the Adrenal glands from ever truly relaxing out of the "Fight or Flight" sympathetic nervous system, and into the Recovery mode of the Parasympathetic nervous system, which is needed for sleep and digestion and truly regenerating energy. Toxicity makes it impossible to truly and completely relax, so a some babies can never truly rest to allow the Adrenals to heal and regenerate. They just keep being stimulated to death (SIDS), or Adrenal Burnout (ASD).
Of course, I am only a mom who depends on doctors for knowledge. What do you think?

What does being the daughter of a physician prove? Nothing at all. Speculation is just that speculation. It doesn't prove anything. People have had immune problems since creatures evolved immune systems. To blame them on vaccines that merely mimick nature says something about what the daughter of a physician claims to know.

Yes, people can have a reaction to a vaccine just like people have reactions to food and drugs. However, have you seen an iron lung? Autism doesn't kill and was around long before vacines. They were called mutes or those children died young -- either from drowning or falling as many do now.

You and many other parents are simply confusing correlative evidence with causative evidence.

I just have to add one more thought. I'm wondering if there were ever a study done about children with a family history of autoimmune diseases and whether they were more succeptible to being diagnosed with autism. I have several friends who have autoimmune diseases such as celiac disease and whose grandchildren have autism. The vaccines are certainly necessary and safe for "most" children but I'm thinking children with autoimmune diseases in their families should perhaps get fewer immunizations at one time... just something I've been thinking about and seems to make sense to me but I haven't read any research on it.

Let me begin by saying my heart goes out to you and your daughter. I have some idea of the frustration you must feel from having your daughter suffering from autism and the medical community denying that immunizations played a part. My husband is suffering from severe dementia and doctors have refused to admit it was caused by an untreated infection. I have done hours and days and months of research and I firmly believe that, some people's autoantibodies go into overdrive when fighting an infection, or in the case of immunizations, an active virus and can cause inflamation in different parts of the body. It causes the body to attack itself. During the reseach about my husband, I often think about autism and I think the diseases are related. There is a lot that is not known about autoimmune diseases and, in my opinion, you, and all the parents who believe immunizations caused their children's autism, are correct.

Ny husband first had word finding difficulties that progressed to not being able to walk nor care of himself within 2 days of a prostate infection. He was diagnosed with progressive dementia and no connection was made between the infection and the dementia. It has been incredibly frustrating as I am sure it is for you.

My husband got sick and I began my research the year John Travolta's son died. I was literally screaming at the TV when doctors were explaiing his death. He supposedly had Kawasaki disease and also had been diagnosed with autism, but John and his wife had questioned the autism diagnosis. What the doctors were saying did not make sense with what I had read.

All I can say is keep fighting, keep the faith, and keep the hope that some day doctors will understand what autoantibodies can do.

There are experts on both sides of this controversy and parents need to educate themselves.
See the book, Vaccine Epidemic

http://www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Epidemic-C...

and the National Vaccine Information Center

http://www.nvic.org/.

Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism http://www.ageofautism.com/

The New York Times published a review of the new movie The Greater Good
http://movies.nytimes.com/2011/11/18/mov...
in which they told the public that even if vaccines do cause autism, "all that matters is that its victims number significantly fewer than those of the diseases vaccinations are designed to prevent."
That's a scary gamble for parents. Autism now affects one percent of our children and among boys alone, it's almost two percent.

Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism http://www.ageofautism.com

The LA Times recently published this stunning review of the new film, "Greater Good," an in-depth look at the vaccine safety debate.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/14/...
The short trailer to this movie on their website
http://www.greatergoodmovie.org/experts-...
makes it clear that there are experts on both side and a lot of serious questions that need to be asked. The medical community and health officials promote vaccines as the greatest achievement in modern medicine yet there is going fear over vaccine side effects.
Claire Dwoskin from the National Vaccine Information Center and Leslie Manookian, producer and writer of new movie, "The Greater Good," talked about vaccine safety claims with NY talk show host Thom Hartmann on Nov. 21.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38qPvdFit...
They discussed the poor design of the research used as proof that vaccines are safe. No one ever talks about this!
Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism http://www.ageofautism.com/

The Baltimore Sun published this story this past July, "We don't know enough about childhood vaccines--Researcher asks: Are 36 doses of vaccine by age 2 too much, too little, or just right?" The vaccine schedule has more than tripled since 1983 without a single study on the cumulative effect of so many vaccines, so soon, on the health of a child.

This piece asked why so much safety testing is missing.http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-vaccines-illness-20110711,0,7906966.story
Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism http://www.ageofautism.com/

Thank you to the Janesville Gazette for allowing Teresa Conrick to talk about the growing controversy over vaccine safety. There are a number of “inconvenient truths” when it comes to vaccinations:

Officials have refused to call for the ONE STUDY THAT WOULD PROVE VACCINES ARE REALLY SAFE. Why has there never been a study comparing the health of fully-vaccinated kids with never-vaccinated ones? With so many parents now too afraid to vaccinate, the study group is out there. If never-vaccinated children also have the medical conditions and developmental problems that we see in so many of our children today, including a one percent autism rate, the proof would be there for all to see.

WHY HASN’T THIS STUDY BEEN DONE?

Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism http://www.ageofautism.com/