Bealab,
Your 2/20 1:151pm post is false.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/

Only 5 states do not have collective bargaining for educators. Those states and their rankings on ACT/SAT scores are as follows:
S. Carolina - 50th
N. Carolina - 49th
Georgia - 48th
Texas - 47th
Virginia - 44th
Wisconsin, WITH collective bargaining for teachers, is ranked 2nd. That shouldn't last for long if the governor has his way.

Which Sybil?

So if we remove the rights of citizens to gather and collectively bargain, aren't we taking step towards Communism? If you want this to pass, why don't you just move to China, where this is already in place?

I guess the best explanation for his employer's devious plan was that it took a year for gg to teach his job to the new guy. Yeah, that's it. ;~)

Mudsill, here's another masterpiece of a sentence by gogreen:

"I worked for 13 years at a place in Janesville and one day they hired a younger guy and said I WAS FIRED A YEAR LATER."

Walker - the billionaire Koch brothers' boytoy!

I am a public employee, but not in a union.
I was at work every day this week.
I fully support my fellow citizens protesting in Madison. I would be there if I could go. I pay for my health care and I pay taxes - federal, state and local. Walker needs to back down on the issue of collective bargaining. Everything else in negotiable.

give me an E
give me an M
give me an A
give me an N
*
What does it spell!
*
DOLT!

GO WALKER....GO WALKER...your THE NEW GOVENATOR

huntnfish... read the article that Bealab provided the link to on 2/18/2011 at 5:09 PM. That will answer your question.

Why doesn't this bill have the wealthy paying more? Please explain why the working class has to sacrifice and the rich go unscathed again. Could someone tell me please.

There are just as many silverspoons in the Democratic Party. Jim Doyle was a 4th generation politician from an extremely wealthy family, John Kerry married the Heinz ketchup loon, and the Kennedys (no explanation needed) just to name a few. It seems that you are so angry that you are only seeing one side of this. Don't worry, take a breath, everything will be ok.

I don't trust any politician. I believe Unions at one point were useful. Now they are just too political. Unions think they are better than everyone else and shouldn't carry their share of the burden. Sorry, time to pay up. Unions have had a free ride for too long. Collective bargaining only makes it possible for them to make demands that serve only a few, and are not good for the massess.

Go workers! Go state senate Dems! If walker refuses to compromise, show him the consequences! See you in Madison!

Totally agree bgolds! These Walker supporters have been drinking way too much of his kool-aid and actually think that he's out to help them. You can show them fact after fact about tax breaks for the rich and schemes to make them richer, and they still don't believe it.

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/0...

In response to all the Republican dopes who cling to the fantasy that the GOP is all about creating 'opportunity' for you:

• Koch Brothers- Inherited their fortune
• George W. Bush- Bankrupted multiple businesses funded by his family
• Scott Walker- Married the boss's daughter
• Kohler family- Inherited their fortunes
• James Sensenbrener- Inherited fortune

Good luck on your delusional road to 'riches'.

They used to call financial dynasties 'kingdoms'. What makes this any different?

Feh.

BunBun you do not know what you talk about. I have worked in the business sector, and as a teacher in both union and non union positions. STUDENTS go for 180 days. TEACHERS work MORE. Maybe not a full year, but look at these numbers: 40hr weeks for 50 weeks a year is 2000 hrs. In the business sector, this is what I worked. As a teacher I NEVER WORKED LESS THAN 2200 hrs-- 10% MORE than full time. Teachers who care put in lots of time and effort in worse and worse conditions, with more students and not enough resources. Teachers have to buy many supplies, the schools can't afford to fund it. Teachers do a lot out of love. And you want to pay them for 180 days work. They'll need a 2nd job when they work full time equivalent plus!!! There is no time-- or they will become VERY BAD teachers and you'll really see drops in student achievement. Are unions perfect? NO. There is a lot that should be changed-- but no union at all-- it DOES GO BACK to slave conditions!!! Anyone who cares about personal health and having a decent living should not be a teacher. Only those who have a calling should go into that PROFESSION. You have no trouble with lawyers, doctors or engineers making money do you? They are professionals. Why do teachers get a bum wrap? Food for thought.

http://www.alternet.org/news/149965/wisc...

These Tea Party Republicans just don't get it...they're nothing but pawns in the billionaire Koch brothers' money making scheme.

These pro-union people will never get it. They stood up to GM in Janesville -- Oh and that turned out well........ I guess you cant teach an old dog new tricks. You just need to put it down.

jvill -- If you really believe what you say, then there is no hope. The jobs are all gone anyway and all the unions are figting for is my money via taxes. The reality is, that you must be wrong or we are all damned , pure and simple, so why would you fight for more of my money. It will end very badly.

Yes, unions were useful at one time to address horrid labor conditions and at one time our Federal government was small and did not intrude into every aspect of our lives. The pendulum has swung too far in favor of the power brokers. (and with state workers you get the worst of both worlds....Union and a bureaucrat....)

It is not so much about workers refusing to tighten their belts as it is about the right to have collective bargaining taken away. I have heard many of the protesters say they are willing to pay more towards their benefits. I would think that as a conservative you would be outraged by rights being taken away from anyone. I admit unions have become just as corrupt as politicians, that is still no justification for taking the individual members rights away. If it were not for unions we would still be under the thumb of unethical business owners as in the days of the robber barrons. Do we really want to go back to the days of the triangle shirt factory and the Hay Maker riots?

onedayatatime,

I think one of the major issues many Wisconsin residents are sick and tired of about these state employee unions is that they think they should be immune from all fiscal responsibilities, budget cuts, reductions, etc. Almost every time someone speaks of tightening the belt, unions think no one should touch their nest because somehow they are above this in some magical way.

Kohler employees made concession, Harley Davidson employees made concessions. Who the heck are state employees to say no, no ,no

http://www.allbusiness.com/labor-employm...

http://www.wuwm.com/programs/news/view_n...

It is time to remove the wheels off this gravy train.

" And the truth is they're overpaid, have 4 months off a year WITH PAY and make about 75% more than the rest of Wisconsin’s workforce"

Will you please provide where you found that statistic? From my research I found on the average public employees make LESS.
A joint study from the Center for State and Local Government Excellence and National Institute on Retirement Security analyzed 20 years of data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
"Even when accounting for benefits, though, total compensation is still 6.8% to 7.4% lower on average for state and local employees."

You are also ignoring the fact that public sector workers are better educated -- 48% have college degrees versus 23% in the private sector. So I guess if you are comparing them to the $7/hr uneducated segment of the private work force you might be able to justify your 75%.

BunBUn:
"It's the Republicans who are for BIG MONEY!"
.
no, the party stands for everyone having the opportunity to earn BIG MONEY in the free market. I'm sure the net worth of the elected democrats is only part of the lies spread by Walker, after all everyone knows that Herb Kohl lives in a van down by the river. Even though Ted has passed on I could mention the Kennedy's - fortune made from smuggling.....besides no BIG MONEY donates to the democrats.....

"Should we report you findings to the
Governor?"
.
No, I'm sure he is fully aware of the situation. though you may want to call the state police to look for your missing "r", I think the democrats took it to Illinois when they ran away.

"Get us working people to fight amongst ourselves while they take more and more of the pie. How much is enough!"
.
same question could be asked of unions. After all, the folks who started and run a company have no rights to profit from what they created. After all to paraphrase the WEAC supporters here: If ceo's are so undeserving of the money they make because anyone could do the job, then start your own company and prove how easy it is.

Middle class Republicans and middle class Democrats start to fight, and before long unions are gone. Big business moves in...and that's the end of that state. Except for the Republicans and the Kochs brothers.

But wait. No one thinks this governor is smart enough to do this on his own, right? Of course not! That's why the Koch brothers, BILLIONAIRES (once again Google it), support Republican candidates. They move into a state, fund a campaign, and then use THEIR elected offical as a puppet. That would be Pinnochio Walker.

Wake up people! This is not about a 2nd grade teacher having better dental insurance than you. It's about the Republican party doing away with the Democratic party. Do your research. The major contributors to the Republican party? Big surprise...big business. The major contributors to the Democratic party? UNIONS! Get rid of the unions? Get rid of the Democratic party. That is precisely what this governor has in mind.

There is no budget crisis, which is the justification being used to eliminate collective bargaining rights. This is union busting.

The "projected" $3.6 billion deficit for the NEXT budget is based on REQUESTED (not authorized) state government agency spending increases of 6.2%. The media, including the Gazette, isn't reporting how this bogus budget deficit was fabricated.

BunBUn:
It's the Republicans who are for BIG MONEY!

Scott Walker, Paul Ryan and all Republicans have to be smiling (all the way to the bank)! Conquer and divide. Get us working people to fight amongst ourselves while they take more and more of the pie. How much is enough!

I see that from Rep. Joe Knilans staements, he still has a problem with the truth. Maybe he should return all the negotiated benefits hes enjoyed for the last twenty years. Those that he got from collective bargaining rights of the UAW. The truth is the republicans have given 140 mil. in tax breaks to repay political favors, and they are trying to make it up on the backs of wisconsins middle class. And follow the national republican agenda of destroying middle class of America.

So police and firefighter, EMT's and Teachers are all brain washed.
Holy $#!+. That don't say much for the majority of us then, does it?
What do you think we should do? Should we report you findings to the
Governor?

"These people have been so brainwashed they can't even begin to see they are being used as pawns for big business."
.
These people have been so brainwashed they can't even begin to see they are being used as pawns for union management.
.
You folks claim that Walker is inciting class warfare but class warfare is the prime strategy of both unions and the democrat party. Notice how it is ok to be filthy rich if you are a lib democrat (I guess its because they "care").

Jesus, Ezoner! Give it a rest! WE GET IT! YOU HATE TEACHERS! I just pray that you're home schooling your kids so no public school teacher has to put up with you. If they DO attend a public school, you've just proven WHY teachers need to be paid a king's ransom...to deal with disrespectful, unsupportive pains like you! You think you could do a better job? GET YOUR TEACHING DEGREE!

Ezoner, you are living in a fantasy world. There aren't going to be any jobs to switch to in the private sector, other than the service sector. Say it with me: "Would you like fries with that?" No company is going to stay here because the non-union "productive and innovative workers" are worth $15/hour if you can get someone to work for $2/day in India. It's just simple math.

Private workers let management know they are unhappy by changing jobs. High rates of headcount turn-over affect productivity and quality. American workers are some of the most productive and innovative. However, the unions have created a sense of entitlement and no longer encourage nor reward creativity and productivity. In fact the opposite is true. They promote the status quo, forcing companies to leave the country to seek cheaper labor.

All teachers, firefighters, etc,... that have taken anything but a vacation day to protest, and take the citizens and students with that much disregard so as to lie and claim a sick day, must be fired. They should not recieve a positive reference and I would never let my child be educated by a teacher that thought that little of their responsibility to the community and their profession.

no matter how much I don't like the democrats sometimes. it's issues like these that remind me they are still better than the what the republican party has become.

E_Burke "Private employers have been sticking it to workers because private workers just take it without saying a word." How true. When we try to tell people what is happening to the labor force in America, we get the same old right wing response "stop whining about how much less you are paid and be grateful you have a job. If you don't want to accept 50% less pay, there are others out there who will be glad to work for that." That's the problem. These people have been so brainwashed they can't even begin to see they are being used as pawns for big business. Maybe they will wake up when it finally comes to them and they are told to accept $8/hr or their jobs will be shipped to Mexico, India or China and those people will be glad to accept that job for $8/wk. IMO the republicans want to eliminate the dept. of ED. and privitize it because an uneducated, ignorant work force is easily controlled and manipulated. The post from the right wingers on this site are proof enough of that. Won't this be a great country when only the wealthy will be able to educate their children, who do you think will continue to run the country. We are on the fast track to a two class system, the wealthy and the working poor.

Here's an idea -- how about they further reduce the budget by cutting out the subsidies that use my tax money to help businesses overpay private sector factory workers for jobs that could be done cheaper overseas? Seriously -- just because private sector blue collar workers didn't have the guts to protest when big business shipped all their jobs to China and India, now they think no one else should stand up for a living wage? If we're all going to just join in the race to third-world standards, cut the subsidies to businesses and let them go where the work is cheap. That would be more true to the "free market."

Here we go again using the children as a shield.

"Walker has said that 6,000 state employees would be laid off if drastic changes aren’t made in contracts and 200,000 children would be forced off BadgerCare."

Okay, Walker is holding 200,000 children on BadgerCare hostage, and unless teachers let him kick them into the mud, he will withhold medical care from 200,000 kids. Let me tell you, folks, the 200,000 are going to get cut off regardless, whether or not teachers submit to his attack. Don't expect anything like "fair" from this governor.

Next time you look an emt in the face that might be saving your life....remember your actions!
Next time you or a loved one gets extracted fom a wreck or savied from a fire..... remember your actions!
Sorry, just remembered these services are your God given right for pennies on the dollar.

An open letter from UW-M employees, that summarizes some of the sacrifices they've already made: http://uwmasls.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/...
*
Let’s talk about what we HAVE done:

1. All State employees HAVE paid taxes. We pay sales tax, income tax, property tax, all the same taxes everyone else pays. We help to ‘foot the bills’.
2. We HAVE gone without a cost of living increase as long as most state employees can remember (including one person who has worked with the state in a clerical position for nearly 40 years).
3. We HAVE an annual salary that is approximately 5% less than what we would receive in the private sector (8-12% for University of Wisconsin-System non-classified staff and faculty).
4. We HAVE given up salary increases in the past in trade for not contributing to our pension, a fact we have never seen mentioned in any coverage regarding our retirement system.
5. We HAVE taken 8 furlough days per year equivalent to a three percent pay reduction for the past two years.
6. We HAVE given up a 2% legislatively approved salary increase from the 2007-2009 biennia, which has not been restored.
7. A large number of us HAVE been asked to provide services at an increased rate – additional duties, overload, expectation of working more than 40 hours per week, coverage for other staff during furlough days – with no additional remuneration.
8. After adding the reductions to benefits directed by the currently proposed Budget Repair Bill for Fiscal Year 2011, State employees will HAVE endured an approximate 15% reduction in income.

Kay -- Good -- then thay can accept paying for a portion of their benefits.

I know how to spell it -- was just sounding out for those teachers that cant read well.

Ezoner... it's tenure. Not "10 yr."
*
Teachers AND OTHER PUBLIC EMPLOYEES have accepted pay freezes and furlough days. I know because it's happened to me personally. Get your facts straight.

Burke -- you make absolutely no sense..... So your saying its better to layoff workers than to implement the same benefit structures that most private employers have ?

Just read that -- it sounds dumb....Same effect -- but now more people are collecting unemployment and other benefits.

Private employees have the right to change jobs anytome they want. A good employee will always find a job, even in this market. You have achoice to work for whoever you want. If a company has a high rate of turn-over, it will show in their quality and they wont be around for long. You just dont understand how business works, as you have been living in a cave (or a cocoon under the government benefits).

Oh -- and I am not a Repub... I do believe in the free market and conservative economics. The economics you aspire to have never been successful.

If some of the idiots on this forum are teachers, its no wonder why our educational system performance is as bad as it is.... they lack any sort of math skills.

Private workers dealt with the reality of contributing to their benefits years ago. Pension plans became 401K's with company matching in some cases. A significant amount of personal earnings pays for health care. You name it. Now that unions and government employees are seeing the same transition, they feel they have a right to spend my money without personal responsibility for their own health and retirement.

You people cannot be serious.... do your jobs, teach the kids. If I were in charge and any teacher missed school to protest, they would be fired immediately --- OH -- but you cant do that with 10 yr. You people are smoking cigs and watching the house burn down. Whats more you dont give a *^*% as long as you get your free benefits.

Its simple -- DO YOUR JOBS, TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

With all the talk about Scott Walkers Budget Repair Bill and what it will do to Unions people should also worry about BadgerCare Plus and BadgerCare Core plans, FamilyCare and SeniorCare
Mr. Walker buried deep in the bill is a clause that would give his administration sweeping powers to reshape state health programs covering more than 1 million state residents.
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/he...

"And here in Janesville, teachers demanded pay increases every year to approve a new contract. They got it."
-
ORLY?
-
By "demanded pay increases" do you mean "accepted pay freezes"? Because that's what happened!

Teachers' unions have had years to help fix the out of control education costs. Yet, no solutions. And here in Janesville, teachers demanded pay increases every year to approve a new contract. They got it. Starting with last fall when the average teacher took a 3.25 percent pay increase. Some teachers got more due to longevity. Now, sickouts and walkouts. It's time for grownups to plan the painful decisions and make the tough votes.

Also check out property taxes in other states, you will be shocked at how much cheaper they are. Oh, and they will appreciate great Teachers.
You will for sure not want to retire in Wisconsin when you do your research.

property tax are way cheaper in Indiana

KingRizzo, thanks for reposting that. I am utterly amazed by people's willingness to ignore FACTS in favor of right-wing rhetoric, personal grudges, and outright ignorance.

Call Ryan's office, with these fact. That math wiz needs to do some homework for all of us, not just his Wall St. Clan.

"(...) The nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau recently released a memo detailing how the state will end the 2009-2011 budget biennium with a budget surplus.
In its Jan. 31 memo to legislators on the condition of the state’s budget, the Fiscal Bureau determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million.
To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the “crisis” would not exist."
-
Walker's BS gets more infuriating by the minute.
-
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/...

Everyone needs to digest what Gandalf says on this blog.
Unless you want to bring down all worhers in Wisconsin.
Remember, one state worker could be related to five - ten - fifteen.....
non state workers. Your attacking percentage is as weak as a wet brown bag.
Carry on picking at the gound beef, while the Republican's eat T-bones.
Even school kids get that analogy.

E_Burke
DumBun,
(Imagining that you must have sweet dulcet tones to your speaking voice to go along with your imaginative writing skills)
.
What part of lower wages take money out of local economies don't you understand? The part where you don't know basic economics?
.
(I know that taking my money as taxes to give to you so you can spend it makes less sense than if I spend it myself-I'm supposed to be happy that you get a chunk of my paycheck before it is even deposited?)
.
Personally, I don't care what stupid people like you think.
.
(at least I'm capable of thought- right now I'm thinking that if you didn't care you would have ignored my post)
.
You are clearly not in a field that requires any level of intelligence.
.
(and you sir must work in some government public relations job - you clearly have a strength in this area)
.
In the private sector, corporations are bailed out by tax payers, yet their pay wasn't diminished.
.
(and where did I say this was right? in the public sector you just tax the rest of us more to cover up for your failings)
.
The state creates special tax havens for stadiums for billionaires.
.
(and I recall that the politician most responsible was recalled....)
.
The state doesn't have to go bankrupt.
.
(hence this plan)
.
With a little thought, effort and eloquence, the governor could have convinced people to go along with them,
.
(last I heard, we have one governor at a time)
.
instead of trying to economically rape them;
.
(nice use of an emotionally charged word to try to sway a weak argument)
.
considering the stupid ignorance
.
(which is it? stupid or ignorant?)
being repeated here about state employees, it does not surprise me that laziness rules.
.
(yeah, laziness does rule but you have to pay union dues first)
.
Teachers perform work at home and outside of school ALL THE TIME, so if they email or call while at work it is simply even Steven,
.
(in fact it is not permitted, as some of you may find out the hard way)
.
or do you communists want to force people to work for free. Stalin would be so proud.
.
(I thought we were supposed to be Nazis? make up your mind. It makes it too hard to choose the wardrobe, though I supposed I could get both red and black and wear anarchist colors)

Be VERY careful of what you people want because next we will become a Military state. That is why we have votes. Do not let our politicians fool you into thinking it's ok to cut your fellowman's income and pensions UNTIL they are willing and able to cut their own. And quit babying BIG MONEY! They do not need anymore tax cuts! THey are not the ones losing their jobs, homes, etc.

PLEASE READ:How the middle class became the underclass

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/How-the-mi...

What you people who support this bill don't fully understand is that if this passes it is not going to affect the salaried employees, the ones who are truly sucking us (yes, us,we public employees pay taxes also) dry, it will only affect the peons (union employees) people like you who also live paycheck to paycheck & cannot in any way shape or form survive with a $700.00 or +/mo paycut. Mr. Walker, his cohorts & all of your legislators will still be making the same amount of money, still have all the same bennies, still live in $2,000,000.00 mansions that we taxpayers pay the upkeep for & will still be able to afford to go to the SuperBowl. Oh that's right, Mr. Walker did pay for that himself, let's just forget that we pay the salary that makes it possible for him to do so. Oh, and how will that affect your businesses when thousands of employees can no longer afford to buy YOUR services???

This just discovered in the fine print:

Wisconsin to change "Forward" state motto to "drawkcab"

scooter47, good and thoughtful post. I, too, am dismayed at the attitude of some people who believe that because they have suffered economically, they won't be happy unless everyone also suffers similarly. They take their frustration out on fellow wage earners rather than the real perpetrators of our economic troubles, namely the financial industry, off-shoring corporations, and the politicians whom they have in their back pockets. This is proof that the divide and conquer strategy followed by corrupt monied interests is clearly succeeding. If unions and high price benefits were such a drag on business, how do we explain the tremendous success of Germany, which has very high wages and much better benefits than is typical in the U.S.? It's simple: Germany does not have the corrupt financial industry, and off-shoring is considered to be counter to their values.

Scooter -- you are dea wrong --- not only should this pass -- I dont feel its deep enough. I am tired of paying for someone elses benefits. I am tired of reteaching my kids when they get home. It sounds like you and others want to send your kids to school to be raised by the state. Its time for ALL including the state union employees to take personal responsibility for their futures and the futures of our children.

Here are just a few comments from a financial article I just read. This article is about why middle class has stayed stagnant for a generation: "One major pull on the working man was the decline of unions and other labor protection" said Mr. Rodgers with the Labor Department. In 2010 only 12% of the workforce was protected by unions. Factory workers have seen their jobs go overseas because of the lack of protection. 50 years ago a high school diploma was all that was needed for the blue-collar worker to get a job, now employers want "soft skills" such as a year or two in college. All of this because of republicans. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Why in the world is there such jealously between union and nonunion jobs? I just don't understand. Especially all the teacher bashing on here, what is wrong with you people? Are you that disillusioned that you think this is okay? I don't! I want my grandchildren to get the same education that I did and my children did. This seems hopeless for all involved. Take care and hope this does not pass.

Has the Gazette gone so strict on their Moderating comments now, that all comments users try & post are considered harassing, threatening, Not Nice, libelous,, not focused, & or can't get it right? If that's the case, then Why put up comment boxes at all? To give the impression the Gazette encourages public debate.. Because the impression this paid subscriber gets is totally opposite. OH WAIT.. I'm wasting my time typing this because this would be considered not focused to the subject on the page, & the harassing to the gazette... & probably not nice. SO I guess I'll have to used my subscription to get my point across.. Or should I say, lack there-of, when my renewal comes up here very soon.

300!

Here's some supply and demand. Go to school for 4-5 years. Cost about $30,000 for just tuition at a state school. Now, spend a semester at a local school as a student teacher. For free, and they tell you to not have a job so you can focus on teaching. Did I mention you have to pay to student teach? Then apply for a job. So we should be ready to replace these jobs in 5-6 years? Sweet, sounds like a good plan to me. Oh, and after you get your job don't forget about the $20,000 in master's degree and beyond schooling.

I really see this whole issue as an economic issue. It's really supply and demand!

Unfortunately in our current economy there are many people (supply) out there looking for work or wanting a better job. That means state workers can't ask (demand) for a lot and may have to sacrifice like many of those in the private sector. Governor Walker is calling their bluff, saying if you don't like it there are plenty of people out there willing to work your job at the rate and benefits he is proposing and in most cases he is right!

I feel bad that people are having to take pay cuts to their take home pay, but unfortunately we can't keep borrowing from future generations and creating a higher deficit for others to pay for us later. We need to take responsibility and get our financial house in order before it collapses.

Again I realize it is never easy to be told you need to take less money to do the same job you've been doing, but unfortunately there are many others right now willing to do your job, so if you want to keep a check coming in, you have a choice to make.

It really is supply and demand.

On the backs of the middle class worker AGAIN. Meanwhile his rich buddies continue to get richer. That Sucks!

A future SNL parody...
Regarding teachers: "I HATE teachers. They seriously expected me to take these things called "tests" in college. THEN, they actually expected me to hand in papers. Believe it or not, something had to be written on them! Then I found out that handing in a newspaper doesn't count! Who cares! My idol, Tommy Thompson, persecuted teachers for YEARS and got by with it. Plus, my other idol, George W. Bush, was TOTALLY a C student. Education? Smeducation! I TOTALLY dropped out, and look where I am now!"
Regarding the Tea Party: "These people LOVE me! How much state money would it cost to rent a boat and pour either Nestea or Lipton off of it!?"
Regarding the "We're Open for Business!" signs: "Let's see. I'm on my way to gutting unions which will TOTALLY bring businesses into the state. What else can I do? I know! Are those CHILD LABOR laws a federal thing or a state thing? I'm sure I could JAM a repeal of that through! I mean, seriously, have you seen the quality of clothes those little hands can make?"
On being the KING of Wisconsin: "Now that I think of it, forget the USA! I bet that I can get Wisconsin to secede from the nation! I am TOTALLY the best govner ever! Wait a second...someone check that spelling."

UFCW local 711 shows how to protest in this video.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-se...

Gandalf, you have been right all day. Sign me up.

I fear that we have turned a corner in our state, with one set of workers pitted against another set of workers, all dancing to the divide and conquer tune written by Walker and the Republicans, both of whom are puppets of the Chamber of Commerce and the so-called Club for Growth. Workers in unhappy circumstances seem to be seeking solace by perversely dragging other workers down into a likewise unhappy condition. The winners are only those who will profit from disorganized labor and lower labor costs. Since an elected officeholder cannot be recalled until being in office for at least a year, now is the time to set the recall movement into gear by marshalling the people into a reaction, the likes of which has never been seen in Wisconsin. The perpetrators of this madness, namely Walker and the Republicans, will pay the price of their idealogical dead-end, and their names will be shamefully recounted in the history of our great state.

"Most state employees could pay twice as much toward their health care premiums and it would still be half the national average."
-
That's why it's called a compensation package, sir. It matters not how much one person pays for premiums compared to another -- it matters how they are compensated for their time. To come out and say you're just going to give them a 10% cut to their compensation package so that the percent they pay toward their premiums is more on the level, and then remove their legal right to bargain for it is heinous. Leave the bargaining alone and give them more cash to make up for the increased premiums. THAT would be fair.

There is a need for a change

http://www.10news.com/news/15274005/deta...

Most state employees could pay twice as much toward their health care premiums and it would still be half the national average.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/stat...

I have heard from the state office of employee relations for years that the state is broke. It is the same record that has been played for years. Many state employees have for a decade have received on average 1% per year, while the private sector employees received more. The one compensation was always the benefit package that the state would put out and say take it or leave it. The unions at the state average about $100 a year for my union. Not much of the 18% decrease will be taken up by that. Also the governor is still implementing the existing furloughs which is about 3% of wages. Do the math, that is greater than 20%. For someone who averages 1% increase in pay a year, he will now have the same take home pay as he would have more than 10 years ago. How many of you supporters will donate your increase in pay for the last 10 years to reduce the states debt? Any takers?

Redder - perhaps you should read the research before you reply, but that would mean that you'd have to look at facts instead of rhetoric. I'm sorry that you don't love your job. Perhaps you should change careers. Go to school and choose something that pays decently and gives a fair retirement and benefits - if Gov. Mubarak leaves anything. Those things should be the right of every worker. Instead of fighting to take those things away from public employees, you should be fighting to make those the right of EVERY employee.

If you are going into teaching, maybe you should consider spending your money on education for a license in another state. One with less ignorant citizens, that respect your efforts.
Why stick around this State, when you would be dictated to by this moron?

We knew we were going to pay more, that isn't the question...yes, more is paid for benefits- got that. What of the taxes? Our taxes are going to go down quite a bit, so that means that all state workers will be paying less taxes. Will it make a huge impact? Not complaining about the costs- the bargaining yes- the prisons aren't the safest places to work, and the bargaining helps make them more so. This question was just one that came up while the hubby and I were talking.

Good point tamrlu - also if anyone can actually answer this:
If the Janesville Teacher's health insurance is self-funded, and they pay more, doesn't it just increase the Fund 10 balance? How does the state benefit in that?

Now, try that fancy "sort by specialty" button and you'll see where UW ranks.

Welcome to the "new" America folks.....

I have an honest question for everyone...the state employees (teachers too)(different contracting) are going to be paying more for their benefits. In doing so, it will create less taxes being paid from their paychecks. Their benefits are pretax. How is this going to help?

12isgreaterthan4: Look at the U.S. News and World Report. #1 for Curriculum and Instruction and Educational Psychology. #2 for elementary and secondary teacher education. UW-Madison is the top education school in the country... But why will professors want to stay in light of Walker's bill? Why would recent graduates seek employment in this state, if this bill passes?

love...This will only avoid layoff for the current budget. Until June. When he puts his first budget together with massive cuts to state agencies they will be forced to layoff employees.

And Mavrik, I have a Ph.D. Yes, I've thought on my own. And I know how to spell. Not sure if you can say the same on either count, quite frankly.
*
I'm concerned with how many folks here are relying on Fox News and right wing pundits for their "facts." Moreover, they seem to accept Walker's attack on Wisconsin families and ignore how much he's given to businesses.

To add onto dado4's comments: Why would undergraduate education majors choose to teach in Wisconsin, if this bill is passed? What's stopping them from going to another state that has higher salaries and/or better health insurance? UW-Madison is the #1 education school in the country (yes - it's ranked higher than Harvard, Berkeley, and Stanford). But what does it say about our state if our graduates are concerned that they can't effectively do their jobs and support their families if Walker's bill becomes law?

Here's what Gov. Walker's plan will do...
* Keep unions in place, as they are now, for police and fire employees,
* Let other government employees, INCLUDING TEACHERS in all districts in the state, decide each year if they even want to have a union. If 51% say ues, the union is in for another year.
* Let government employees opt out of being a union member and of paying union dues. No more mandatory dues that simply get transferred to democrat candidates come election time. This wipes out the elections
teacher’s have been able to buy for decades.
* Stop the state from doing union book-keeping by collecting union dues.
Wisconsin would no longer collect dues for the unions if this proposal passes.
If the unions want the dues, they can ask the employees each pay period to write
them a check. This makes contributions to the democrat party optional instead
of the current corruption that enables democrats to collect campaign
contributions from employees who don’t want to support Democratic candidates.
* Only allow unions to collectively bargain for the base wage for any
position.
* Save government jobs. Without this change, the state would need to lay off 7,500 state
workers in the next 2 and a half years.
* Stop state employees from having to take Furlough days to help the state
budget. Between that money the employees will now get paid, and their savings
from not having to pay union dues, the employees should roughly have the money
to pay for increases Walker is seeking in employee contributions to both
healthcare and pension plans.

"Oh and Kay13, how will it affect me? Just wondering if you have any thought of your own, or just random links to bi-est web site/ studies. Only way I can see this effecting me is that we will eventually rid ourselves of the 3.6 BILLION deficit. Sorry, that’s not a bad thing in my opinion."

How about this for a "real world" scenario. It is a fact that there is a nursing shortage (not enough nurses to meet the demands) and it will only get worse as the baby boomers retire. The major factor in this is there are not enough qualified nurse educators to meet the demand for potential students. A large percent of nurses receive their education at state funded schools such as BTC, MATC, Gateway Tech, UW-Madison, UW-Oshkosh..etc. If this goes through many nurse educators will leave the field or will not enter it. After all more money can be made in the private sector so why take a job for less pay and worse benefits. So the nursing shortage worsens leading to overworked nurses and understaffed hospitals (many of which are state funded as well). There will be less nurses working more hours, hospital beds being empty because there is not enough staff to provide care, and potentially end in tragedy. Does anybody remember the incident at St. Mary's? A nurse working on minimal rest after a double shift gave the wrong medication killing a 16 year old girl.

When a firemen saves one ot your family, and an EMT works on them and the nurse keeps the healthy. You might want to reflect on the day Walker screwed these life savers. He is one sick b@$2#&d. Plus remember these professions were developed through schools and colleges. Walker needs to remember who first slapped his butt!

"It pulls money out of local economies dimwits."
way to use sweet reason to sway people to your opinion.

How much is pulled out of the economy when the state goes bankrupt?

"Let's see how the right wing dimwits spell, "Unoin", "bi-est". No wonder you losers hate teachers"

more gentile persuasion..you sir/mam are a model of eloquence. perhaps if the teachers did their job instead of spending their day sending emails and calling representatives from school computers/phones, then people would have learned proofreading skills.

KingRizzo: to my knowledge, over the past about 10 years, I've only heard of about 1 or 2 Guard members in about 150 state workers at DOA. A fair amount are ex-military, but now middle aged or close to retirement.

http://host.madison.com/ct/business/biz_...

Oh and Kay13, how will it affect me? Just wondering if you have any thought of your own, or just random links to bi-est web site/ studies. Only way I can see this effecting me is that we will eventually rid ourselves of the 3.6 BILLION deficit. Sorry, that’s not a bad thing in my opinion.

"stobby"...increase wages for goverment employees..are you nuts...that is the point they are over paid now...why is it that Madison was absolutely impervious to the ressesion...Why do they just keep on a truckin? Blind to all of the communities around them, car dealershipes thrived, some of the highest sales records to date. Yet those in Janesville struggled, and some collapsed, why are people down here a short 20 minute drive in such a different place yet those who work for goverment or are in goverment run job sector continue on without a care. I am not saying these people are wrong for what they do but as one poster has said..."she chose to pursue her dream and that, that was a her choice and that a private sector job would pay more" well then it might be time for a change. I am not overly thrilled with my job but I do it to pay the bills. I do what I have to. I wish I could afford to do my dream job, have not had it yet.

Mr Steeber,
If Janesville's union's have always bargained in good faith, then why is the school so far in the hole? Oh yeah, last year’s teacher's raises when they knew there would be layoffs because of it. Now they are upset of pending layoffs, huh, that sounds like collective bargaining in good faith, well, actually not really. Sorry my friend, that was a bad comparison

Hamster.... do you only have one ear? You are either too young , naive or so head strung on getting at the teachers.
Lies as you put it have come from many so called Republicans.
You need to look at the big picture, and not stay so narrow minded.

As a long-time teacher and public employee, I'm horrified by what Gov. Walker's proposed bill will do to the state of Wisconsin. This will not just affect public employees - it affects ALL OF US.
*
While Gov. Walker has spoken about the fairness that this bill brings, the EPI released a recent study showing that Wisconsin public employees already receive approximately 5% less compensation than their private counterparts after controlling for hours worked (http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/67...). As such, this bill does not seem to create a fairer climate at all.
*
Under this bill, teachers will face a 10% wage drop: http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/ed... . Why shouldn't our best and brightest teachers head out of state, if this is how we're going to treat them after they've already had salary freezes and pay cuts?
*
PLEASE, call/email your elected representatives today: http://legis.wisconsin.gov/w3asp/waml/wa...

How many national guard workers do you think are public employees? How many public employees do you think Walker will call up to fill in for themselves? Can't wait to see how that turns out . . .

You are delusional Gandalf. Nowhere in any statements did he threaten violence. You and your ilk are imposing that meaning onto his statements.

redder - if you want to align with the private sector, be prepared to increase wages a fair amount.

http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/67...

---

In any event - this is more about the right to organize than the wages and benefits.

buckyboy, you're a hoot! You don't even take a stab at critical thinking. Instead, you degrade discourse to an exercise in name-calling and insult, which is typical of today's self-named conservatives who aren't conservative at all.

Here let George spell it out for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-...
if you dont like harsh language please dont listen. But it does speak volumes of truth.

tj57, I did watch the video, and it is right wing, partisan tripe. There's no denying that Walker stated that the Nat'l Guard would be ready to handle any eventuality. It was, in fact, a threat of violence toward all public employees. It has caused the most negative PR about the state that this writer can recall.

cuthbert...the gazette has been anti union for many years, check out the history, when they locked out the union members and brought in non union help!they always print and broadcast negatives on unions. you never here what the c. e. o. make in wages, at the gazette.

Gandalf, did you even watch the video? It was not Walker who insinuated anything! It was the unions that took what he said and manufactured threat.

lovemycountry, no matter how you spin the Nat'l Guard issue, it was very poor form for Walker to insinuate violence against public employees. It was an insult to the citizenry at large, and it demeaned the Nat'l Guard and its mission. Furthermore, it has caused great embarassment to the state. At the very least, he should express his regret on this matter. If you don't understand why people are upset about this, I would suggest some honest soul-searching on your part.

"stubby"...again your wrong in your assumptions..I do not think its going to the workers I think its to offset the overspending and reduce the cost to the state. It has nothing to do with the workers other than they will be paying more for the benefits they recieve and accountability might then be a tad higher...its just alighning more with the private sector

Here's a video on the National Guard angle. How some, including law makers, are using sensationalism to spread the vitriol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EtigoJpT...

The cuts to state worker compensation will not even cover HALF of the money he just gave away to special interests... that $140 million giveaway is being paid for my taking money right out of hard-working middle class family's budgets, and giving it to corporations... then he has the gall to call it "budget reapir", and to threaten calling out the National Guard to tamp down opposition to this! Unbelievable!

To balance the 3.6 billion dollar budget in the next two years, assuming we cut nothing else, every person in Wisconsin would need to contribute around $325 per year. Walker wants to cut several billion from the corporate tax so they will hire more people? Have any of the companies who made billions last year hired people or given raises? No, it all goes back to the CEO's and shareholders. Walkers plan simply puts the burden of the state right on your back. Your back being anybody making less than $150,000 per year.

If the Governor wants everyone to "share the pain", then perhaps he should not have passed a $140 million dollar giveaway to special interests... how about a state-wide sales tax, instead of killing state workers? Really, let's SHARE this pain instead of lumping it on one small group when it will NOT balance the budget to do this to them!

Gov Walker is putting a huge burden on Wisconsin families that have one spouse working for the state! Those families are already suffering like everyone else-- spouses get laid off, pay cuts, drops in business sales. Now the Gov. plans to take another $4000-$6000 out of those family's budgets! You cant balance the budgets on their backs alone! If he was willing to take $5000 from EVERY Wisconsin family to balance the buget, I could understand. Instead he picked a group he thought was vulnerable, and blasted them. This is WRONG.

The last union contract was voted down because repubilcans said they did not have enough time to look into what was all there and Walker told them to. Now he wants a bill passed in 6 day. Talk about knowing what you are voting on! Things are still coming out of the bill that people did not know was in it. This is moving a lot faster then that contract they killed ever did.

I heard that the UW football coach is making 2.5 million bucks this year...screw research and UW state workers, GO FOOTBALL! WOOOOOOOOOO!

love....dollars to donuts not one of the 1000+ $100k employees are front line union workers this bill attacks. They are non union managers, agency heads, Governor appiointments and coaches.

Gandalf - only you are making this a class war. The changes to the public union affect lower class union employees through the middle class as well as the 1,000+ state employees making over $100k/yr. To the contrary, repairing the budget in this manner, instead of cutting Medicaid will help the lower class in Wisconsin.

As a "state worker", I make $26,000 a year. You're going to take $5000 from me? That's almost 20% of my pay. I don't get a $4000 bonus a year, I don't get health insurance in retirement, and no one pays me a bonus for showing up on Fridays, I just do. For those like me who have children, they are going to have to forgo insurance and put their children in Badger Care. How does that help? It's great to look at the top earners and complain. How about those of us struggling to make ends meet as "state workers"?

The Governor's/Republican strategy of divide and conquer is clearly working. As long as they can keep the middle class at each other's throat, they will succeed in pushing policies that benefit their constituencies, namely business and higher income individuals. Everyone's unhappy attitude on this forum is an indication that a lot of people's economic circumstances are suffering, but that is no excuse to denigrate fellow working citizens. Save at least a little of your anger for Walker and the Republicans for supporting businesses with corporate welfare give-aways paid mostly by the working people of the state. While the current fray is playing out within the suffering middle class, the higher income earners are laughing all the way to the bank.

With more than 19 contracts for State Workers, how can anyone "lump" them together and act like every employee is treated or compensated in the same way?! The State Workers are not your enemies. They pay income taxes, property taxes, school taxes, county taxes, municipal taxes, sales tax, interest taxes, water bills, heating bills, etc. The issue is the bargaining rights. Yes, the more than 100% jump for health insurance and the more than 400% jump for the pensions are extreme, and all the "private" sector jobs that the "public" sector support have not had that type of percentage increase. Is there no way for anyone to understand that what is going on is exactly what was wanted? Us vs. them- whichever way you believe. This bill will not balance the budget- the raid on appropriated funds will. How do the millions being "spent" in tax breaks balance the budget? They are not going to help much. Illinois still pays less in taxes than Wisconsin does for business- even after their tax increases. Class "warfare" has been happening since the 1780's in this country. The same in Europe, only longer. Read the history and you will see that when the economy is bad, the "wealthy" prosper, and the "poor" get more so. When the economy is good, the "wealthy" prosper, and the "poor" get the crusts that are leftover. Those who do not pay attention and learn from history will repeat it. Seems very appropriate.

"Students at Stoughton HS are walking out today in support of their teachers, support staff, and administrators, who cannot. WAY TO GO STOUGHTON STUDENTS!"

Why don't these students walk out on a more noble cause like supporting all the unemployed Americans?

"Someone call Simon Wiesenthal, I think we found Hitler!"

I agree RAF, I guess it's ok to call Walker Hitler but when you oppose Obama's policies you are called a racist. The left is something else.

"Scott Walker is reckless and fired the first shot in his declaration of class war. This one is coming back to haunt you Scooter."

If this is the case, then Obama must be out of bullets now.

Wow, so much for the lefts call for a more civil tone; guess that only applies to people they don't like.

Scott Walker is reckless and fired the first shot in his declaration of class war. This one is coming back to haunt you Scooter.

For only 18 years as a senator, if you retired at 62, which is the age they can retire, your pension would be about $139,000 a year...for the rest of your life. Their pension is based on the highest 3 paid years @ 80%. The last 3 years they got just under $175,000. Oh, and don't forget free cadillac health care for life. And don't forget any lobby and insider money they squirreled away. And how many weeks per year do they work? Average is only about 140 days...per year. So who's over paid?

By the way, I assure you my portion is a lot more that $153.

If you still want to send me money I would be interested in that.

153 here, 153 there, pretty soon with so many government hands in my pocket I assure you it adds up quickly. I pay WAY more than $153 to WI. Maybe I won't get it back this time but in the future my aim is to pay less of it. The money confiscated from me is taken and I cannot put it into the economy. Government takes it from me because they believe they can spend it more wisely than I can. Big government liberals counter with the essential services argument but even they understand most government spending is not "essential services." Money is taken from many others like me and we are tired of it. I am tired of being a funding source for a state government that historically is completely incapable of controlling its spending. We elected Walker to stop taking from us as our pockets are getting empty. I and many others like me will hold him to his campaign promise. We want him to try his plan and we back him up on it. Please do not believe the union propaganda that would have you believe that the loss of a government job is equal to the loss of a private sector job. Anybody who has had econ 101 knows the difference.

$875,000,000 for the state population is $153 per person in the state. Tj do you need me to send you $153 so you feel better about voting this down?

tj57, you won't be getting back that $875,000,000. That money is already coming from you. Now instead of it being spent at the local businesses, it is gone from the economy. That money won't magically appear in your pocket!

More quick math: That's $875,000,000 that is not confiscated from me and my fellow Wisconsinites in the form of taxes. I can take my portion of it a put it right back into the economy more efficiently than government can.

Quick math. If the 175,000 state workers lose an average of $5000 in compensation. That is $875,000,000 in lost wages. Money that is not taxed or spent in the local economy. Lets at least give state workers a choice of having the pension or not.

The governor and the regressive party of no have decided to kill the system that has worked for years in WI where people are treated with respect and bargained with in good faith. In favor of a system where you have the right to be poor but no right to bargain. Welcome to Dixie and the low end of the education and lifestyle pool. Where the corporation is king and the governor and his pals are the corporations lackey’s. I hope the whole bunch are one term and done.

ThinkThank.
"where I honestly make 30-40% of what I would in the private sector."
a bit optimistic.. i do not believe that your arts degree will go quite so far on the private side..

Now that I think about it, I want to get elected so I can have my very own entourage that goes with me on my all expenses paid trip to Spain. All paid for by you the taxpayer. Gotta get me some!

Dkush, I wholeheartedly agree. Did you know that the president's lifestyle costs us taxpayers close to $60,000,000 per year. Yes that's sixty million dollars! Let's start at the top!

Our goverment OFFICIALS should lead by example. Start with yourselves first, then work your way down. We pay way too much and too many perks to the ones we put in power. That's how we will start cutting costs big time.

Tax money is paying private sector jobs also. TIF ect..., and lets not forget about the Wall St. bailouts that Bush started. The difference is public worker porvide a service to the tax payer. Bush's Wall St. just got it handed to them because they screwed up.

Make no mistake, this is happening because shared revenue is going to be a thing of the past. The gov wants local governments to be able to negotiate hard.

. . . what Stubby said.

"All public salaries are paid for with taxes. If the private sector is not paying those taxes to pay for the salaries, the private sector has the extra money to spend, to save, to invest."
-
Where did you get the idea that this money was going to be taken from the workers and given back to the taxpayers? If you do that, your deficit has a net zero change, and that's not what Walker is touting. He's saying these savings just go to reducing deficit, not refunding the taxpayers. You don't give tax refunds when "the state is bankrupt." So, I would say that Rocky has a better grasp of this than you do.

Redder and LMC - the flaw in your logic is that you assume that the cuts to the workers are going to give money back to the taxpayers. Not happening here. Remember - those workers are taxpayers, too. These cuts Walker is making are dollars completely out of the economy. Buh-bye.

To say that this bill is about state budget is a joke. Most people do not know that state emplyees pension and heath care can be set in the state budget. If all he realy cared about was the pension and health care he and the legislators would wright the budget to reflect the changes he thinks he needs. When the unions go the bargaining table they can not get what is not their. This is what has happened every time the state emplyees health care costs have gone up before. Take the contract that failed in Dec. Doyle put in a 0% raise, 3% cut due to furloughs, and a 2% increase for health care, and is what the contract was to be. But Walker got them to vote it down causing the state to lose millions in heath care cost due to the fact emplyees would be paying more as we speak. This bill is all about taking it to the workers.

Rocky - it's that kind of economic genius that got Obama elected. All public salaries are paid for with taxes. If the private sector is not paying those taxes to pay for the salaries, the private sector has the extra money to spend, to save, to invest. Saving and investing in production and small business is what grows an economy, and increases private employment and cyclical spending. If government spending grew an economy, we would all be driving Maseratis right now.

Short-sided should be short-sighted...my apologies.

I think some of you really don't understand. Because of my love of educating, I have chosen to work at a state-related position where I honestly make 30-40% of what I would in the private sector. Why, you ask? Because I have a passion for the future of our nation. The only reason that I agreed to work so far below my income potential was that the benefits helped a bit and I could follow my passion. (Even with the benefits, I still earn less than half of what I would in private industry...and I am willing to contribute to health/pension/etc.) I now will have the benefits ripped away. Do you really want all of the most passionate, qualified workers leaving the public sector? Why should I accept a huge cut when my work has increased two-fold during this recession? Will breaking the unions really benefit the state in the long run? This is another short-sided solution for a growing long-term problem. I am the first to recognize that something has to be done, but ripping away my rights (and yes, some money) is not the right direction.

Really...'rocky'....you honestly think thats the case..if it were the case we would not need the cuts because we would have all that extra money now...we dont! So unfortunately that blows monster holes in your theory

OK - so let's say the bill passes. Even the so-called "good" teachers (and nursers, and snowplow drivers, and other municipal workers) lose $300 - $600/month income. You say - "well, it is time they share the pain". Here is a news flash. They will also share the pain with the private sector! Just like everyone else, the public workers won't spend. That is money NOT going into your business. Sales taxes NOT being collected. Employees in the private sector NOT being paid. More layoffs. More recession. This is what Walker really means by "share the pain".

gandalf......I stand corrected

Well, considering you dont know were I fall economically I would think your makeing some broad assumtions. As a better than average wage earner, I have seen it on my end as well. One thing that annoys me is the level of entitlement that those who work for goverment either in education or otherwise have. We have to pay for what we recieve. That means that in order to balance a budget you might have to give a little from your lucrative situations. For example, your health insurance for your family costs you what at most a couple hundred a month and has a deductable of say what 500 bucks while mine is 900 with a 2000 deductable. So you have to give a little to be more in line with the norm...I am not saying all, but I am saying some and I agree with that, and think with the state of our state it is not unreasonable. Now for the comments on Unions...I will not debate a Union any union...I think in their day they had a place but today, I think they are overprice lobbiests whom are getting rich on your money and doing the very least for their members, in turn costing you jobs...why do you think the auto industry is now south of the mason dixon line....Right to Work...if in fact Walker can do this jobs and industry might again flourish in the state of Wisconsin...until then, enjoy what you have because not much will be comming your way.

evansvillehousewife, take your blinders off please and learn how to read. I never said that 'only those of us with higher incomes never lost jobs.' Nor did I say that 'No one with a high income had ANY effects of the recession.' What's wrong with you? Please refer to http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=vie... for a far better explanation than I can provide. And stop mischaracterizing other posters' statements. You do yourself a huge disservice by doing so, and it's precisely your kind of logic that leads to the kind of economic dead-end through which we are currently suffering as a nation.

Wow Gandalf. Yep, you uncovered the BIG SECRET.. only those of us with higher incomes never lost jobs. No one with a high income had ANY effects of the recession.

redder, your statement that 'All of the rest of us that are not in govermant have made these consessions [sic]' is untrue. If you had started the statement with 'Some' or 'Many' you would have been correct. Upper income earners have not suffered the consequences of the economic bust. In fact people in higher incomes have seen their situations improve while everyone else has taken a huge step backward.

janesvillean: Over and over again in these posts the past few days, we've seen arguments that Governor Walker is democratically elected and therefore anything he does is just fine. Problem is, we don't elect emperors here in the US of A. Yet, Governor Walker is working furiously to give him the power to enact or ignore laws that are made by our democratically elected representatives.

I'm begninning to agree with those who are shouting that this is only the beginning of him ruling like a dictator.

I'm not a Chicken Little kind of guy, but this Governor scares the daylights out of me.

westorbust,
Your zero sum philosophy of our economy is laughable. Capitalism is great, probably the best economic system there is. It has drawbacks. I don't like the drawbacks but I from time to time have to take my lumps like everybody else. I have yet to see an economic system better. And by the way...virtually every technological and material item you possess was made possible by capitalism. So relax, you are partaking in the fruits as well. And if unions were so great, everybody would have one. I for one do not want one. I chose to stand on my own merits and value. I don't want protection nor do I need it.

copperguy, don't be foolish. This is the unstable Middle West, populated by primitive peoples who are not ready for democracy.

Well, it seems Governor Walker ALMOST succeeded in distracting us from a huge (arguably unlawful) power grab buried in his budget proposal. In addition to sweeping away worker's rights, his bill "would remove the entire Legislature from determining substantial elements of the medical assistance program," according to the NONPARTISAN Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau. That's right...the bill would grant his administration the ability to write rules without legislation and without so much as a public hearing.

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/he...

So, let's again hear some talk about democracy?!?!?!

redder, all those things you listed that are happening to private sector workers here (and everywhere), are BECAUSE unions are not more widely available to many of us. Business is looking up in many sectors, companies are posting decent profits, yet nobody is hiring, and nobody is getting a raise. Why is that? Businesses cut costs, which means, you, the employee, in order to increase profits. That's capitalism. Enjoy the fruits.
^
You know, in order for there to be rich people, there has to be poor. Looks like the Ayn Rand crowd is kicking everyone else out of the sandbox.

I am sorry but its time. Call it Union busting call it what you want but Madison your time has come. All of the rest of us that are not in govermant have made these consessions along time ago. We have had our checks cut. We have had our insurance benefits go up. We have had our insurance packages changed. We are working longer hours for less money, or at best the same money but doing two jobs instead of one, now you face what we face. WE the rest of us little people have had to bear the burden of our goverments poor choices and unbalanced budget. Now you must also partake in the recession, just like the rest of us poor slobs that have now for a couple years..its not personal its business...quit whineing and suck it up like we have had to, the couple grand a year is a small pittance to what some of us have lost..and after all Unions in general are democrats, democrats want to give wealth to the poor, thats what your doing so you made your bed lie in it a while.

Yeah, I gotta hear this.

Whats with all this "benefits" nonsense anyway?
Doctor/hospital "insurance" should not be tied to one's employment in any way.....this sets up an extremely perverse situation where at the very time you NEED that insurance you may very well end up losing it because you can't work for the very same REASON you need the "insurance".....A family member is experiencing this extremely perverse and DYSFUNCTIONAL situation as I write this.

916- Do you ever check facts? Or do you always just believe what you want to believe in your own little ultra conservative Utopia? If you read the story, you would know that the Stoughton students went to a local church to protest, as well as sign a petition.

In fact, since the city sees fit on post DUI's to the city's website, they should post the city's top tax scofflaws on the website, as well.

Another step should be to seriously go after individuals and businesses who owe state taxes. Check-out http://www.revenue.wi.gov/delqlist/ctall...
to see the scope of this issue. I suspect tax enforcement is not an area of interest for Walker and the current set of Republicans in the legislature, but it needs to be part of the equation.

Walker supporters - How much do the state workers have to give? When they make less then you? I am all for everyone to pay their fair share, what is your fair share?
I have some ideas for paying out less and helping the budget:
Drug test all WI residents who receive government assistance. If you cant pass, you get nothing. That should cut out 50% of the monies paid out and balance the budget.
Cut all public officials pay in WI by 10%. They should feel the pain too.
Increase fines for people that break laws.
Stop spending money on out of state services ( saw someone post that the gov is paying OHIO to protect him..really?)

Good Bye Knilans......should of stopped you when you lied about where you lived.

I propose that there be a sales tax increase until the next budget. That way, the unions can still make the concessions they were already making prior to his election, and they can keep the bargaining rights that were hard fought for. Everyone feels the pain, etc. Just an idea, but can't bring any more animosity, hate and anger from everybody on all sides. It's just a band-aid too, but it's an idea. No one else seems to be coming up with ideas, that's what we need people- ideas that can be given as alternatives.

Many of us who will be impacted by this "plan" are willing to contribute more/extra/differently. We are losing so much more than pay, however. We are losing rights which were so long in coming. We weren't given the opportunity to have any say over this at all. Yes, I am very unhappy that my take home pay could drop by 10% very soon, but I am even more upset by the rights being taken away from so many. I am also concerned about the picking and choosing taking place...certain unions only...

916WI.... Wow! So you just spout anything that comes into your head, nice.
Maybe you should ask Walker to calculate what it costs the state to keep the illegals here. Maybe Walker should focus on Wisconsin's future and not pull it apart.
The foundation is developed from kids through to adults. You need to look at the whole picture,and not get politically side tracked by the wealthy.
Walker does not see you any different than a teacher, and will break your spirit when good and ready.
First teacher, then nurses, firemen and police. He will take the order that serves his needs for power.

Let's use an Obama expression to define this proposal. Government employees are being asked to "make an investment" in their own wellness and retirement. Sounds like a good idea.

You're right, huntnfish. As a hardworking, non-union employee, I won't be eligible for cuts. BUT, I can put in a good word for you at human resources... we are currently hiring someone for 3rd shift janitorial.
Glad to see you support the right to & fish! Me too!

Also, I wish the headline read that reactions range from 'outrage to enthusism." I don't simply approve of this, I wholeheartedly support these measures. I just wish the right to work extended to ALL jobs, not just state workers.

SMART- You ask the questions re: the security company, the National Guard, and personal visits to representatives?
Because he is worried the union will engage in violent protest, duh. No one has to think back too far to remember the violent actions foisted upon free market workers (what they call 'scabs) by strikers. The unionists operate under a idea that a job is"their" job. No, it is the company's job, and they should have the right to fill it with whatever legal worker they please.

Gandalf - these concessions aren't meant to solve the budget $3B deficit problems. But the state is deep in the red for bills due now before the current budget ends. This proposed bill would repair the current budget passed in 2009. http://legis.wisconsin.gov/11-1383_2_Bud...

nanaof3 - I'm with you.

Walker's bill is a simplistic solution based on denigrating public employees. Employee concessions need to be part of the solution, but such concessions should not be enacted all at once. After all, it took the state many years to dig its budget hole. Likewise, it should be over at least a couple of budget cycles for concessions to be fully implemented. The bill as written will cause severe hardship for the family budgets of public employees, and it is simply not fair, especially considering that law enforcement and fire employees are exempted. Part of the budget solution must include increased taxes, at least temporarily, for higher incomes and doing away with tax give-aways (welfare) to businesses.

Stubby.........Yeah, I'm so sure that the majority of Stoughton students had the interests of their teachers labor unions at heart when using it as excuse to justify cutting class. Please tell me you aren't so naive. How many of them are spending their "free day" heading up to Madison to rally on the capitol steps to support their teachers union and how many of them will be hanging out with friends playing x-box and eating pizza? If you're honest with yourself, the answer wouldn't surprise you.........

Has anyone here actually READ the proposed bill? He said he was gonna do it.. He's doing it. I don't know if it's gonna work. All I know is I'm tired of paying union dues for a union I was FORCED to join.

A fair plan? Please outline your idea of a fair plan.

I'm smart and you're not! And I'm not a public employee.

Wisconsin's public workers will be forced by Walker and the Republican Wisconsin Legislature to pay YOUR state deficit, because the Republicans are too stupid to come up with a fair plan. If you're working - in or out of a union - beware of legislation that undercuts workers' rights. YOU could be next!

Also, consider: 1) the fact that cuts specific to teachers won't add a penny to Wisconsin deficit relief!

2) There is no sensible reason to limit union rights other than to damage workers, because unions have always negotiated on the tough issues and are not adverse to concessions.

Finally, I ask the question: Why has Walker put the National Guard on call; hired a private Ohio security company and; told Capital Security Guards to tell state representatives not to see their constituents?

From Channel 27 News - Students at Stoughton HS are walking out today in support of their teachers, support staff, and administrators, who cannot. WAY TO GO STOUGHTON STUDENTS!

tpaine.....Seriously? Are you really clueless enough to believe that Walker is planning on taking on the federal government by attempting to violate federal labor laws? Geez....the people with the tinfoil hats are getting more dramatic and more loony every day!

A bully? Perhaps you'd be happier and jubilant if he only raised taxes to cover the +100's of million dollar hole in the current biannual budget and the +3 billion dollar hole in the up coming budget. Ignorance sees this as a revenue issue, facts show that without spending reductions nothing will change. If you think this action is being a bully wait until he passes the other fiscal restraints needed to get this state budget back on track.

gonfo5
"I hope he breaks the unions."
"I hope this does become a right to work state!"
Yea... right to work for less,right to work long hours,child labor..forward WISCONSIN!!!

I love that we can have a Governor with no college degree, but it takes 4-5 years of schooling to work the jobs he wants to slash. Maybe he really hated his teachers?

This bill will be approved by the legislature this week, and in a matter of months, bigger budget cut issues will take center stage in the media. But this week, as the vitriol continues from the big government union side, keep video cameras ready.

I hope he breaks the unions. Good hard working employees don't need to hide behind unions for protection. I'm sure there are plenty of great workers that work for the state that wouldn't need the union to continue employment. The private sector has been taking cuts for a couple of years and it's time the public sector does a little bit if the same. I read a post that said they thought Walker was going to balance the budget on the state employees. Public sector workers haven't had to take the hit like the private and I hope this does become a right to work state!

Why is it people won't fight for their own rights yet attack others rights?

We are already up to number 11 in terms of most taxed states in the US. Would you advocate bumping us up into the top five? Heck why stop there, may as well be the best you can be and top out at number 1. Based on the numbers, we have already been using your strategy and it has failed. And by the way...when I visit other states and tell them about our taxes, their reactions range from astonishment, falling off their chair, or inciting outrage. But your comment is not surprising. You have probably lived all your life in WI and only seen this tax tax tax philosophy so you don't know any different. Just raise taxes, its so easy. Tougher to go to the people and say "no, that cause is noble but we are broke." Tough to face the people and say "this system you have is broken." That takes courage, something our past state politicians have lacked.

Always remember, you could be next for cuts. [except for that lazy bi%&# from Evansville]

Tim Cullen is right.

This is a joke and an absolute slap in the face of all public employees. Walker campaigned on working with unions in good faith and on open government. Now he's come up with this bill without input from anybody but his 'yes men'. He is placing 100% of the deficit burden on 10% of WI workers. I'm not a mathmetician, but that doesn't compute to me. Republicans are so against any increases in taxes they would rather hurt a small % of the state than spread the burden evenly. Wait until you see your property tax bills next year. Are you really OK with your trash being picked up every-other week? Republicans are right. We can't sustain services the way things have been going. At some point taxes will need to be increased unless we all want to see a significant dropoff in services and education. When you're kids are in a class of 30-35 instead of no more than 22-25, don't complain. You got exactly what you asked for.

WEAC actually has on their website a schedule for picketing legislators' homes! WEAC, the group that wanted "no bullying curriculum" in all schools, is now bullying spouses and children of legislators. Call your local reps and tell them to vote yes on the budget repair bill - Cullen, Knilans, Loudenbeck, Wynn in Rock County. Then, we all need to start looking for another $3B in budget cuts while saving Medicare, infrastructure, public safety.

As Ben Franklin once said, "Gentlemen, we must all hang together or we shall most assuredly all hang separately." We should have learned from the mistakes that have occurred in this town over the last two years. People were jealous and envious of GM and Lear employees (even though these people were their friends and family). I have never seen such intense hostility for a group of people in my life. The demise of the middle class, IS the middle class. What ever happened to wanting the best for our neighbors, friends, and family? Notice that our governor is only singling out "certain" groups of state employees (not police, fire fighters, or state patrol officers). Interesting...some of these individuals need to protect our governor. If he breaks down each state group one at a time, he will and can succeed. Unless...ALL state employees stand up together or each group WILL eventually all hang separately. I invite ALL state employees to support each other over the next three days. Many state employees are asked to wear "red" to support each other. Now is the time for ALL unions to stand together as one. Just imagine if we ALL wore red and WE ALL supported each other for once. We COULD make a difference. If the Egyptian people could stand united, can't we? Please support all state employees by wearing red. If we continue at this rate, we will no longer have a middle class.

evansvillehousewife If ypur name is your occupation What would you know about Unions???? you sit and agree with this Dictator, Who by HIS decisions is putting Wisconsin in a place I don't think he doesn't want it to be. Will you be happy when all teachers and public employees walk away As to not having the means to take care of their families. Do your kids go to public schools? If so, will you appreciate it when education and other areas that our children will benifit from become a lower priority to all he targets with his Power Tripping brain, as that is where This DICTATOR is going to take this state. So much control this weasel has taken upon himself and All of Wisconsin will suffer with his ignorace....

nah, the humanity quote is too Hindenburg for this state. I was thinking more along the lines of Apocalypse Now and Brando.

"It's funny that it takes a Associates or Bachelors degree to get a secretary job yet someone with no degree whatsoever can be Governor."
Ain't America great. Yep, a bunch of yahoos with law degrees screwed up the finances of this state and someone without a degree is trying to fix it.

@malky.....LOL-LOL-LOL!

It's funny that it takes a Associates or Bachelors degree to get a secretary job yet someone with no degree whatsoever can be Governor.

(insert generic leftist comment here)
(insert generic rightist comment here)

Title should say: "local democrats outraged, local conservatives approve."

Didn't this guy get into this position b/c of a train? I don't remember anything else from the campaign. The only time I've even seen him speak was at Lambeau field. What is clear is that these actions appear to be bold. If they work, great. I just hope this was a clear objective people educated themselves on when they voted for him...

Why do you think Packolies? They supported his campaign. That is exactly why State workers will give up the money but not the union. What is to stop a vindictive Governor now or in the future arbitrarily punishing groups who do not support him. We are afraid....he gets rid of the union next week and then the week after that he says "now you are really screwed....I'm taking more because you didn't vote for me". Is that how you want your government to work? That is one of the many reasons why unions are relevant to the public workforce. I agree, unions have their faults and can help keep some bad apples around, but think of the alternative. Pay to play just like Chicago........

No dictatorship here - everyone can contact their representatives and ask them to support or vote down this budget repair bill. This Walker proposal is now squarely in the control of the Assembly and State Senate.

Police and fire endorsed the governor.

“We don’t have the luxury of sitting down and going through the entire process,” Wynn said. “If you wait until the last second to fix something, unfortunately your options are fewer."
-
Does no one else find this to be a blatant disregard for the responsibilities of the office? In my mind this gets to the heart of MANY of the budget problems facing all government - federal, state, and local. Our "leaders" simply look for the easiest way to balance budgets - not the right way. School district needs to save $10 million? Cancel classes and layoff teachers. State needs to save a $3 billion? Eliminate union bargaining rights. Why not "go through the entire process" like you are elected to do and then discuss any potential remaining savings that are needed?

so why are police and fire exempt from the govenators axe?

lovemycountry- don't think much of you either. I agree to disagree with you, and think of you what I may. Even up. Now, stop it.

tamrlu posted - "Name calling shows lack of intelligence."
tamrlu later posted - "Evansvillehousewife: #1- quit being such a petty, snotty teenager stamping your foot".
-
-- thanks for verifying what we suspected, tamrlu.

Thanks for that Frusion.....I guess many people are missing the point about why public employees are so upset. WE WERE WILLING to make concessions, we demonstrated that over the last few years. However, no one ever asked us. The Governor is trying to make it sound as though we were unwilling to give concessions and that's why he has to behave like this. Of course were are not happy about losing money, but we were willing to accept it. That's not what the anger is about. Why does he have to bust the union if we are willing to make major concessions. Without the union, what stops the Governor next month or next year saying we need more money so now you pay 50% of your pension, we reduce your pay, sick leave etc. It's not necesarily what he is asking for right now, but what he will take in the future. That's what the real problem is. State workers have always been concerned about others in this bad economy.
do some research. Ever hear of the public employee charity campaign (partners in giving) in which many public employees contribute to charities right out of their check. Call your local United Way and asked them how many donations they get on a yearly basis from blue collar state workers. We are not asking for sympathy or anything we are just asking the community to support us too. We are your neighbors, friends etc who supported everyone else during this tough economy. I don't recall any blogs over the last few years with public employees taking joy in th epublic sector losses. Again, we were willing to make concessions. No one ever asked. You just don't have to destroy our working conditions also. What does this have to do with the budget. I feel sorry for people like Bun who are haters. Obviously they have never been to a state prison or other facility. I think anyone who has would no longer call state workers lazy. Please take a tour and see for yourself. You will have a new respect for the quality and rpofessionalism of state employees. Using old sterotypes about state employees is no better tan making assumptions based on race etc. I hope you or your family never has to rely on a compassionate caring state worker.

Y'all, I didn't call him a dictator- I'd have to take off the last 2 syllables. That's my opinion, and I'm fully entitled to it as that is my right as a voter in all elections. I do however notice a Napoleonic attitude. That is something to watch. JMO Don't need a "Russian Front" in WI. (No forward thinking about consequences of actions)

BunBun- wasn't the quote "Oh the humanity!" anyway. This isn't about breaks, it's about bargaining and good faith. Walker isn't even showing good faith with the people of Wisconsin. He's lying people. He has you all believing that it's going to be 12% for insurance, but it's actually 14%. And the pensions are even more confusing. There can be no good faith from the people of Wisconsin let alone the public servants if he can't even honestly present his ideas to the public.

Ok sluggo - seriously-
not to be too picky, we are a republic not a democracy. we elect people and expect them to lead. if they don't lead well, we fire them in the next election. The majority who voted for Walker looked at what he did in Milwaukee co. (the exact same kind of things) and saw the results as a positive for the county.

Should I now refer to Pres Obama as a dictator? He and Nancy passed a convoluted health care law against the wishes of the constituency (both those that wanted no fed involvement and those who didn't like some of the specifics only).

Was Doyle a dictator? The majority in the state voted for a taxpayer bill of rights but the state govt did not pass it. the same with concealed carry.

by referring to any of the above as dictators you merely cheapen the meaning of the term dictator. You disagree with Walker, fine - attend whatever rally you wish, write and call your reps, write letters to the editor, stand on the street corner holding a sign, whatever makes you feel like you are contributing to the debate. When you can't do that due to actions of the government, then feel free to use the dictator label.

booner, I agree with you on all counts regarding waist--freeloaders and all. We all have tightened our belts, believe me that I have. As another poster commented, one would hope Walker is going down other paths as well to wrangle in the state budget. It sounds like you are a state worker and I am sorry this is happening to you and I'm sure it doesn't make you feel any better to know the same thing has happened to many other sectors of the work force. I have not had an increase in 3 yrs and I am contributing more for benefits than I was 3 years ago.

Seriously bunbun - generalizing aside, relative to what a democracy is supposed to idealize - is it right for Walker to go against the opinions of so many? Dictators make decisions based on...well at whim. If he doesn't listen to his constituents...well you get it don't you?

hahaha you crack me up onedayatatime - I think she should change her name to "evansvillebrickwall"
or "evansvilleImakethingsup"

The thing that people do not realize is unfair is forcing employees contribute towards their pension plans. No other private sector job forces employees to contribute towards their 401(k) plans. I don't understand why it can't be a choice. If a state employee doesn't want to contribute, then they just don't get that 5.8% contribution. Simple as that. As a state employee, I can't afford anymore deductions taken out of my pay check. I will not be able to survive. With these extra deductions coming out of my pay check each month, that comes to about $350 less per month in take-home pay. That is a huge amount.

Walker=Hitler
Walkermubarak
Nazi
pond scum
three sixes

wow, guess I'm wrong. You guys have won me over with such eloquent arguments. Every state employee should get 500K per year and not have to do anything.

tamrlu- I guess your are correct. Walker is a dictator. As in definition #4 I suspect he dictated a draft of the proposed law to some staff member. Too bad we don't have the high speed rail as Walker could have used it when he rounds up the Jews to send to the camps.

As a matter of fact, I now think that Walker is worse than Stalin or Hitler. The latter two only killed millions but that dastardly Walker might not let people negotiate for an extra 15 minute break!
The horror!, the horror! (bonus points for the one to get the reference)

Attacks on teachers, education support professionals and other public sector employees will only divide our state. Stand up for professionals who have dedicated themselves to our kids and our communities. Tell your legislators to vote NO on the governor's bill.

Unions are responsible for labor laws that guarantee protection to workers, workers' compensation, the 40-hour work week, the weekend break, and more. On the other hand, they have also become corrupt, greedy and wasteful in recent years, with expensive demands on employers that merely serve to drive employment opportunities elsewhere. This is still no reason to completely end collective bargaining. If that is done we will return to a place in history reminiscent of the Molly McGuire’s, child labor and the Hay Market riots. Call me pessimistic but I have strong doubts that today's employers will "do the right thing" and treat workers fairly. OH WAIT....now I understand what conservatives meant by taking our country back!!!!

tj57

I wasn't trying to defend Steeber just pointing out that he is not currently a union member and has not been for several years.

and FWIW: Steeber used to be a flag waiving republican until Eric Runnas became sheriff, then overnight he became a democrat.

onedayatatime
Amen
"Technology and" huh???
"are the true reasons for shorter hours." what???
The Haymarket affair; ring a bell.. anyone?

Unions brought you the weekend and the 40 hour work week. Also half hour lunch and 2 10 Minuit breaks a day...morning and afternoon. History was required when I went to school when did it become an elective?

comments such as those made by evansvillehousewife are the best argument why History should be a requirement in school and not an elective.

I am sick and tired of our government looking to cut from the little people all the time. Start in your own back yard first. You are all grossly overpaid, you all have great benefits and perks. We are the ones who hired you and we say that you don't deserve what you're making and we should cut your benefits and perks immediately to save our economy.

JohnTRourke, Look, the guy even said he was a union member for 30 years. He also is a city counsel member. His opinion personally should be kept separate from his being a city counsel member because when fulfilling the role as city counsel member his personal opinions may be counter to what is in the best interest of the city. The conflict is there so I feel his commenting in the way he did is out of line. If he and other people in Rock County, the heart of union/labor central, fail to understand this point, I am sorry for you. I do acknowledge that he probably said a lot of things during the interview that were not printed thus making some of his comments appear out of context. If he were contacted for his personal opinion because he is a city counsel member, I feel it would have been wiser for him to say "no comment."

Newfisher- Brava!

JohnTRourke
"Russ Steeber IS NOT a union member.
HE holds the rank of captain at the RSCO.
Captains are management positions NOT union"

yes and grossly overpaid at that..
these cuts scare poeple like mr. steeber; IF the public find out HOW grossly OVERPAID he is they just might say HEY, WAIT a minute...here is another place we can cut to solve the budget problem!!

Evansvillehousewife, I don't know what kind of understanding of history you have, but organized labor is primarily responsible for the 40-our week. You are probably one of those who believe that our founding fathers are responsible for abolishing slavery,too. Technology and automation, if not electronics, came to industry well before the 40-hour week.

I read these daily but have never posted in one--until today. And I'll only post one time to get my thoughts out here. Do I feel public employees should pay part of their insurance premiums & pension? Yes-I've always thought that. Do I feel they should have all of their bargaining capabilities taken away? No. My husband lost his job 3 years ago & wasn’t eligible to return to school & have his education paid as so many others were. Without his pay, we couldn't afford to pay for it. He still doesn’t have a permanent job (he takes odd jobs just to get SOME money). We struggle to make ends meet; we decide, month by month, which bills we pay now & which ones we pay next month. We don’t live a lavish life. We don't go places or do things; the money just isn’t there--does this sound familiar to any of you??? I go to work each day & put in more hours than I get paid for because that’s what it takes. My employer made many cutbacks the last few years. The area I’m in was hit hard; our staff was cut in half, yet we’re told we need to get the job done no matter what. We strongly believe in what we do. We work extra hours but don’t get paid for it (the time wasn't preapproved). I've never had health concerns but now deal with multiple health issues because of the additional stress at work. And all for a take-home pay that is less than most unemployment recipients get each week. Does this sound like the rich, glamorous life so many accuse public employees of living? It doesn't. But this is the life I live as a public employee. Not all public employees are uncaring towards others, and very few are the top dogs that bring home big bucks. Many of us struggle just as hard as hard as you. Could I find another job that pays more? Maybe. I choose to stay in my job because I like what I do--not because of the money (obviously)or benefits. I didn’t post this to sway anyone--just telling it like it is. Not all public employees are the monsters so many appear ready to believe they are. I believe in fairness for all. I’ve always been willing to pay for part of my insurance (which I’ve always done) & would sacrifice more at home to pay into a pension. Contracts aren’t all about money--they contain non-monetary items. I would hope most people would agree it isn't right for someone to take away the opportunity to bargain for basic, non-monetary items like 15 minute breaks.

evansvillehousewife, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. The technology and automation of the industrial revolution spurred business owners to work people at levels you couldn't possibly believe, as if they were draft horses to wear out and replace. The labor movement largely began on precisely this point.

Not only is WEAC upset with our new Governor, but the rest of the Democrats don't like him either? What a strange way for them to react! I bet the Governor thought they'd all be born-again Republicans by now! Governor Walker must be really intimidated and surprised by their reaction to his proposals. I wonder if he'll back down now in the face of all this Democratic weeping and gnashing of teeth?

Adolf Walker at your service!

I think that all of Wisconsin will feel the trickle down effect of less disposable income to buy what small luxuries one can afford on a state salary. My biggest issues, are the fact he won't man up, and even talk to the unions, or for that matter non-union state employees, like myself. I think he is a cold hearted non-people person. It's all about Walker the demi-god, and his arryn brotherhood the fitzgerald boys and thier daddy. Notice the state patrol is exempt?? Hmmmm

Walker did a test screw up job in Milwaukee, and now it is time to move onto bigger things.

HL_Mencken..... and where did you acquire such knowledge?
Sir educated one!

Evansvillehousewife: #1- quit being such a petty, snotty teenager stamping your foot. At 6:29pm yesterday, you were the first to bring up the term in the entire discussion. I just gave the definition so that everyone understood it. Hmmm, knowledge must be a bad thing in your neck of the woods. #2- This isn't about the money folks, it's about taking the bargaining away. The fat cats at the top that really do make too much money (from the Capitol down). They are NON-union. If you want to yell about something, yell about that. Booner, you are so very right in so many ways.

It is our right to join/form unions:
Article 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Ratified by the United States.
"Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests."

What is the big surprise?
This is what you all voted for or failed to vote against.
Amazing.

@evansvillehousewife. Actually the Unions are responsible for the 40 hour work week.

booner- I'm not sure where you think I work, but a conference call between supervisors would have been a little silly since they all share the same office, and the boss man is right across the hall. As for them playing favorites if the union were to go, they already do...a lot, & a good chunk of them are union darlings. As for being a stubborn thorn, that was a bad choice of words on my part. It has been my experience however, that looking someone in the eye & talking man to man, like adults, has gotten me further than hiding behind some union fool who doesn't even know who I am. You're right though I do trust the government. I trust that the government will always mess things up, no matter who is in office. I also have zero faith in my union to deliver the sunshine & lollipops that have always been promised but are yet to be delivered upon.

Justsaynotomath: You are SO wrong. The National Guard does NOT answer to the President. The National Guard is state run. The Army Reserve answers to the President. The Governor can not call up the Army Reserve but can call up the National Guard. The National Guard can be called up by the President but does not answer to him/her first.

tj57

Russ Steeber IS NOT a union member.
HE holds the rank of captain at the RSCO.
Captains are management positions NOT union.

Maximus - I dare you to be a stubborn thorn when you your union is gone.......you will be gone too. You have way too much trust in your government. Back will be the days of your employer playing favorites. If you got the right political view or the right breast size and you will get a raise. Do you know that all supervisors had a conference call on Friday telling them to keep track of any absences or perceived work actions (or dirty looks)and report those employees to administration for prompt termination. You better be confident that your supervisor absolutely loves you...... You will learn some day........

Gandalf- I call BS on your "unions made the 40 hour week." Technology and automation are the true reasons for shorter hours. Technology and automation which were invented by non- union intellectuals. Come up with your own ambitions and goals, and you'll never need a union to speak for you.

Maximus- The only down side now is when you are a "stubborn thorn" they can just terminate without just cause. Before you may have been a pain that was doing your job, so they could not remove you. Now you will just be a pain and if they don't like it you will be gone. Be careful.

916WI, you are only acknowledging a half-truth about 401k plans vs public sector pension plans. Public sector pay is below private sector equivalents, with the pension plan being a benefit that only partially makes up the difference. This is a generations-old accomodation that is still valid today. Without this accomodation, the public sector would not be able to attract qualified workers, especially for professional positions. You are correct in stating that private industry have largely converted to 401k plans, and that's a great example of how employees in general have been taking it on the chin to the benefit of CEO's and other executives who have seen tremendous increases in their compensation compared to other staff who have gone backwards in terms of overall compensation. Believe it or not, there are still plenty of companies that still have defined pension plans, and proudly so. Without organized labor no one, including you would have any worker benefits that people take for granted today (40 hr work week, work-site safety, etc.).

TheHedgeHog- Yes, she should google some dictators and explore what dictator-led nations are like. SHe posted the definition yet still wanted to equate Walker's budget cuts with one who controls all aspect of civilian life. Last time I checked we weren't lining up for rations or turning in our property deeds. You don't have to be Pol Pot, but being mean to the unions doesn't qualify you as a dictator.
I am happy about Walker's decision. At the very least he is giving someone the CHOICE to join a union or not. Now workers can decide to write their own check as opposed to having it deducted from their paycheck. Who couldn't use more of their own money? Also, yes, wages may get lower, but those who choose to work and excel can earn HIGHER wages.

I would like to thank all of you who are coming out in support of me and my fellow public employees. However, where the heck are all of you when we are getting the shaft and it doesn’t affect your political sensibilities? Excuse me if I feel that your sympathy is disingenuous, and “slightly” politically motivated. I will not be sad to see my union go. I believe that unions were once an important part of this great nation, but they have become just as top heavy and corrupt as the evil powers they are supposed to protect us from. I have a hard time believing a union is looking out for my best interest when they say “we’ll look into it”, as they jump on a plane for an all expenses paid union junket to Las Vegas, the problem never being resolved and me having to work more overtime(to cover their hours) while they party it up on my dime. Any “issue” I’ve had with management has been resolved as a result of me being a stubborn thorn, not due to the fact I pay union dues.

916WI - State employees are willing to make concessions without having our union busted. We are upset about having to contibute more out of our paycheck, but are willing to do it because everyone (except the freeloaders) are tightening their belt. State workers care about this state too. Here's the problem with busting the union. Workers do not trust the employer. Talk to a state employee about the vindictive and unprofessional treatment that occurs at the hands of the employer. The union keeps the employer from treating employees differently because of there political views, looks etc. The biggest issue is safety conditions at work. Who looks out for the safety of prison guards, parole officers etc? If you think the government will, you never worked for the state. Talk to a state worker who has a dangerous job. They have horror stories about their employer wanting them to do unsafe things. Anytime a safety concern was addressed, it was because the union forced the employer to address it. Without a Union, some state jobs will become less safe. Add less pay and benefits, and guess who will be working for the state when the econmy gets good. I encourage the public to go tour waupun or columbia correctional and see the working conditions. I bet you wouldn't step foot in there as a worker without the union watching your back.

i wonder why he didnt throw this out there in his education plan , maybe the fear of not getting elected stopped him.

Thank you Booner.

booner......give Walker some time to cut excess in other areas. I agree--cuts need to be made at ALL levels and in ALL areas. Obviously this is the tip of the iceberg, $3.6 billion is a huge deficit to overcome. I just admire te fact that he is willing to take this on, as opposed to simply pushing it down the line for another administration to take care of.......

Gandalf......you seem to be living in the past. 401K programs w/ some level of employer match are the norm in the private sector. In the public sector, where there was once though to be an endless supply of taxpayer money to fund excesses, pensions and cadillac insurance plans covering everything and anything w/ 0% deductibles still exist........Hence, the $3,600,000,000 deficit that needs to be resolved......

Stubby.......If that's the case then management would do anything to keep these people as opposed to having them take their skills, experience and drive elsewhere.........correct? Remind me--why would they need a union then?

Just received notice of a rally TODAY at the State Street side of the capitol at 1:00. Show up to help defeat this bill!

you got it Frusion???? I could continue to list more goverment waste if you would like.

Hedge Hog is right. The waste is not with average public employees. They are blue collar workers that pay taxes too. The dead weight is at the top. Think of all the administrators, supervisors, political apointees that are making six figures. Everyone blames the union workers, but EVERY state employee gets that pension deal. So the elites are laughing as their plan has been successful, they have the peasants pointing the finger at each other while they are quietly collecting the same pension (you could cover 6 line workers pension payments with just what the state pays for one administrator). Don't forget about all the high level paybacks and appointments that all have six figure salaries with pensions and health care paid by the tax payers. They get appointed by the Gov and work four years and get a full pension for the rest of their life. Line workers work their entire career for their pension. And you're mad at you neighbors and hard working families??? Wake up people The eitests are laughing at you while they are collecting their bigger pensions, health care, and per diems.

I am conservative and see the need to balance the budget. But this bill is mean spirited and is a drop in the bucket. There are other ways to save instead of taking out on middle class people who PAY taxes. The government wastes so much money on a daily basis. What about all the freeloaders who do not pay taxes but eat up expensive services there whole life?? No outrage there? Let's start with them. Do you realize criminals get more services given to them every year while hard working tax payers get less. Is there any outrage that Badger Care pays $300.00 a week for heroin addicts to go to the Methadone clinic to get their free daily fix? Ask a DOC employee about what criminals get. If they need a residence, DOC rents them a motel room on your dime. They get free bus tokens, walmart vouchers etc. Where's the outrage??? C'mon people, wake up. Front line state workers provide a valuable service and actually WORK and pay taxes. Get rid of the waste and criminal freeloaders first, then come talk to me.

evansvillehousewife - Seems to me that YOU are the one who mentioned: try googling "Pol Pot" "Castro" and "Kim Jong Il" and not Tamrlu! So stuff that cakehole with more cake!

REFERENDUM!!

If Scott Mubarek's goal is fixing the deficit why does he need to destroy the unions themselves? He doesn't. He is just a petty dictator with a rubber stamp legislature.

Let me clarify a few things. First, I am no longer a union member; however I was one for 30 years. Second, the question regarding the healthcare cost was posed to me and I mentioned that there are several ways to reduce costs without passing on the full cost to the employee and I used a wellness program as an example. The Gazette did not publish my full comments in t his area. I realize that there are serious problems ahead for both the State and local governments , but the proposed changes to the collective bargaining rights of almost all public employees is wrong. We should be allowed to bargain contracts locally without State interference or under State mandates. Collective bargaining allows both side to be on equal ground, provides for both mediation and arbitration if there is an impasse, and prevents strikes and walk offs when disagreements arise. Russ Steeber

booner, glad you're getting a laugh out of this. Since we are all idiots, let's hear from an intelligent person like yourself what you would do to correct the budget. I await your answer oh supreme one.

Stubby - Good one, I found that "Pond Scum" comment quite funny! Maybe Walker could cut the pay of the staff in the UW system? Seems to me that those people (especially UW Chancelor Biddy Martin, or Athletic Director Barry Alvarez) are grossly overpaid! Sickening what it costs to go to college today! I would imagine that the cost of going to college in large part pays for college staff (payroll). With that said however, it seems to me that the ole rule of thumb was: With a good college education comes a good paying job. Typically a higher education equates to private sector jobs because they pay more, so where in the hell the notion of public sector jobs paying more than private sector jobs baffles me? Unless you hold a position like a County or City Administrator making a six figure income, public sector employees are not getting rich, trust me!

You people celebrating this bill are idiots. Remember this is just he budget repair bill. The real bomb will drop next month when when the next two year budget comes out. This current bill saves the tax payers 300 million only. The State is 3.3 billion in the hole. The State employees are taking it right now, but the rest of you will get it next month. You think this doesn't effect your family........just wait.
Remeber, all public workers are not just ditch diggers. Public workers include district attorneys, public defenders, Judges, parole officers, state crime lab, teachers, health care workers, they care for the eldery, mentally ill, they keep your food safe etc. The National Guard may be able to guard the prisons for a period of time, but hey can't teach your kids, care for the mentally ill, care for the elderly, supervise child molesters etc. Good luck Wisconsin, I will be laughing next month when the rest of you get yours....

Well it worked in Egypt, maybe Wisconsonites can make it happen here!!!

916WI, only in the narrow-mided idealogues like you are health care and pensions 'antiquated'.

Dear Lord, 916WI, do you think that public sector workers just stayed at home and collected their checks? 99% work just as hard, or harder, than you probably do. What an ugly stereotype.

There are a couple fallacies running rampant these days that need to be addressed - for the sake of those who have forgotten recent history.

----

1. Fallacy - State workers and "fat" contracts have caused the budget crisis. Fact: The budget crisis was caused by an overall economic crisis fueled by the banking industry, poor regulation, increased oil prices through speculation, corporate mismanagement and a huge housing bubble that burst. These things have slowed the state economy to the point of precipitating this crisis. Governor Doyle, the useless, attempted to put band-aids on the gaping wound by robbing Peter to pay Paul. Now the time has come to pay the piper, and the public employee has become the scapegoat of choice.

----

Fallacy 2: Public workers are overpaid compared to their private sector counterparts. Fact: Studies routinely show that salaries in the public sector lag behind those in the private sector. Examples of extravagance can be found in both areas, but do not typify the facts. For decades public workers have made a conscious choice to accept lower wages in exchange for job security, decent insurance and a pension. Taking away those three things leaves only sub-standard wages, and many will look to leave public employment. This means more competition for the few jobs available in the private sector these days. This bill will make it harder for those currently unemployed and underemployed to find a job.

----

Yada........That piece of history doesn't apply here. Every reform being proposed, has already been been applied to the private sector for years. If anyone should be revolting, it should be the private sector because their tax dollars are sponsoring the public sectors antiquated health care and pension programs........no?

NCC........Those people might have to actually get up, get out and provide for themselves for a change. Another indirect benefit of Walker's actions........

I would sign the letter and would protest his actions. It might be wise for some of you to read a little history of Wisconsin - The Bay View Rolling Mills - also known as the massacre at Bay View - May 5, 1866. Here is a quick summary - Workers were working more than 10 - 16 hours a day, six days a weeks doing heavy iron and steel production in the Bay View area. More than 1500 workers were employed doing this. Workers wanted an 8 hour work day and demonstrations took place all over the U.S. Local protests and marches took place and the WI governor called the national Guard and eventually at least 7 people were shot and killed by them. As we known now - most of us work an 8 hour work day. This is a story that needs to be read in detail because this is a brief summary of info I remember from way back in history classes. Lots of details are not included - for example - I think several police officers were killed, but not sure if that was in Milwaukee or Chicago. It would be a good story for the Gazette to share with us so all the information can be included.

Good for Walker!!!!

"There has been no break, no chink in the armour"--Because the way things have been going, the system will fail. The new political machine has a few flaws, but certainly more realistic than has been. Why do people look at this so selfishly? This 'money' and bennies that come along with it, comes from somewhere-Duh? So why do we keep spending and borrowing money we don't have? I say lets give this abrupt change a long acceptable chance. No one is going to magically starve overnight, and the system might just fix itself. Certain local administrators have no place to talk after their involvement in failures.

Yea like the Democrats "ramming through" the health care laws, which coincidentally could also be the federal government controlling the states, like Steeber saying the state is controlling the local.

Janesville is Gods Nest..

You Live in Janesville.

Nothing will happen. Even if "they" all walk off the job, all will continue as normal.

You Live In 2007.

sluggo- it's confusing, but it seems a yes and no answer about the democracy thing. We are a republic. That is the form of government of the United States and the states within it. Have been reading about the distinctions. Here is the website. Definitely interesting.

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/Americ...

I am very thankful for our health insurance, and even more thankful that we found an affordable one through wise health insurance online. It has been 6 years that they have not increased my premiums. Having health insurance gives us a peace of mind

Constitutional amendment preventing public employee unions?

I think it's a great start to saving the state money and turning it around. I don't want it to stop here though. If Walker is going to get thrown out of office after one term, I pray he makes it a good one and cuts absolutely everything to the bare bones. Launch Project Start Over Wisconsin. Then, we are paying for the neccessities, we can think about the extra's. No more buying plasma tv's when you can't afford the mortgage (so to speak)! Kudos Walker!

I think evansvillehousewife is confusing the connotations between dictator and tyrant - don't be to hard on her, if you read her other posts you will realize that you are just fueling her misguided fire.
On the other hand - I believe we are supposed to be a representative democracy which means that after we vote for someone, they are supposed to be representing their constituents? or am I wrong.

evansvillehousewife- what the devil is wrong with you?! Not guilty of what you are imagining. You brought these things up, not I. Grow up little girl, and act with some dignity and intelligence. Geesh!

Lovemycountry, having a position noted on a web page deeply embedded on his web site, is not 'running' on that issue. As everyone knows he ran on being anti-high speed rail, and that's how he was elected.

evansvillehousewife, your logic is laughable. No one has suggested equating Walker to Pol Pot except for you. You don't have to be a Pol Pot, or a Castro to be a dictator.

Gandalf - you're wrong on both counts. Walker said he would do exactly this. It was on his website..see below. He is also not unilaterally "dictating" this legislation. It must be passed by a majority of 132 (99 assembly, 33 senate) elected WI representatives. http://www.scottwalker.org/news/2010/06/...

tamrlu, You're furthering my case that you are the type of idiot i am further referring to. You're equating the massacre and famine deaths of 1.7 million (Pol Pot) to Walker raising health insurance contributions and Union busting in the itty bitty state of Wisconsin?
Really? I mean... really? Those are adequate comparisons in designating Walker as a Dictator?

These measures will only encourage the best educators to go to other states or other professions. Walker forgets that public employees actually do very important work, and that by punishing them he chases them to Minnesota, Illinois, etc. We will be left with only those who could not get a job in other states. It is shameful for any public official to engage in such union busting, and to deny a basic freedom of collective organization.

Hamster, Walker did not say during the campaign that he would be doing what he is doing, and Obama has NOT done what he said he would do while campaigning. Obama said he would push for the public option for health insurance. Once in office he never pushed for that. His so-called financial reform is nothing like he campaigned on.

Someone call Simon Wiesenthal, I think we found Hitler!

Lovemycountry, to characterize Walker as a dictator is hardly outrageous. When a leader unilaterally imposes policies, that's pretty much a dictatorial action. He certainly did not run on this policy, and he never would have been elected if he had. He is sending a clear signal to private employers that they may go ahead and abuse their employees, too. Anyone who is truly conservative would not support what Walker is doing. What he is doing is radical, not conservative.

Evansvillehousewife- I just put the dictionary reference on. Name calling shows lack of intelligence.
By your name, do you work outside the home? Did you vote in this election? How many people on here did? If you didn't vote, you have no right to have an opinion. That is an AMERICAN value. If the debate here has become childish name calling, good luck to you all.

lovemycountry- by his actions, he is acting the description. the only place that this will be debated is in the blogs. the legislators are going to follow like lemmings, with no public hearings, no input from constituents, no referendum, no anything but "ramming" - so, who has vitriol going on?!

tamrlu - this article describes proposed legislation that must be approved by the assembly and senate. That is NOT absolute dictator power. Using vitriolic terms does not add to the debate, and it may encourage someone to do harm to an elected official.

lovemycountry- she is incorrect- read my post below....it's from a dictionary. the way of his actions it does seem to be an apt description.

Some of you have forgotten that even if we are public employees we, too, pay taxes. The same as you. And we do not make more than 80% of everyone else. We actually make concessions on wages and have for the past SEVERAL year (even prior to the economic disaster) because of the rising cost of health care. But great bennies have been the trade off.
At any rate, destroying the unions has nothing to with saving the state money. Most management or executives in public sector are not union employees. They are the ones making 6 figures. I have no problem with concessions, I do have a problem when you take my bargaining ability away.
When everyone says how we have it so great, I wonder why there aren't more of you applying for public jobs? There are times in my county when jobs are posted more than once because there are no qualified applicants (meaning typing for example 40 WPM).
But that's ok, because if this continues, we will move back into the private sector, eventually any public services people want will not be because there will be no one to facilitate them. Boy that will save money wont it?

Gandalf - Evansvillehousewife is justified in calling out those who use the dictator term. Those that continue to incorrectly throw out dictatorship language are engaged in...what's that word ? oh yeah.. vitriol.

the only way they will learn is when their voted out. seems to me that no matter who is in office they need to work together and find solutions instead of just coming in with an idea and then bullying it through .

Someone needs to check Walker's head for three sixes.

Evansvillehousewife, you're way over the top with your reaction to calling Walker a dictator. Way over the top.

Lovemycountry - So glad you think it OK to save all those people who need badger care and the other important programs - and are willing to pay for it out of your own pocket.....oh....wait....no you want the state workers to pay out of their pockets. Fine to save those things so long as it costs you nary a cent. Show me how concerned you are about saving these things by taking $5000 of your own money and throwing it into the pot, exactly the same way you are asking your neighbors, the State and local workers, to do.

----

And while you're at it, explain how busting up the unions saves anything? Union leaders are not paid by the state.

dic·ta·tor
   /ˈdɪkteɪtər, dɪkˈteɪtər/ Show Spelled[dik-tey-ter, dik-tey-ter] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a person exercising absolute power, especially a ruler who has absolute, unrestricted control in a government without hereditary succession.
2.
(in ancient Rome) a person invested with supreme authority during a crisis, the regular magistracy being subordinated to him until the crisis was met.
3.
a person who authoritatively prescribes conduct, usage, etc.: a dictator of fashion.
4.
a person who dictates, as to a secretary.
Use dictator in a Sentence
See images of dictator
Search dictator on the Web
Origin:
1350–1400; Middle English < Latin dictātor, equivalent to dictā ( re ) ( see dictate) + -tor -tor
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2011.

It makes me so angry to see people of the USA throw around the term 'dictatorship' so candidly.

Are you fearing having to step up to a window to get your weekly ration of 12 oz of cooking oil along with your 3 loaves of bread? Are you clutching your members in a hidden cellar in fear as you hear your neighbors scream, being hacked by machetes?

No? Not afraid of that yet? THen shut up with this language of dictatorship. It's disgusting. You have no idea what a dictator truly is.

hamster- you must live in a much different state than we do. the state workers around here don't get to live the way you accuse them of. guess prison guards aren't worth looking at when you make your generalizations. Did you all know that the union had made many concessions for this contract. remember, they have been conceding through the last 2 years. willingly taking no pay raises for the second contract, paying more for the health insurance, and paying more for their retirement (got the pay stubs to prove they do pay into it). This was done in good faith. Walker is being a bully. The concessions were not even looked at by Walker before he ordered that all contract talks end. (prior to when he had the right to do so) This is him making his point against people that thought he might do them good. Most of the folks around here voted for him, and listening to them now, they are sorry. A lot of prison workers around here. Still want to know who is paying for the television ads, and how much is it going to cost the state when it is deemed in the courts that which unions you bust cannot be hand-picked. By the way, I don't work for the state- does that make me a better taxpayer than the guy who lives next door and works at the prison?

lovemycountry-still want to know where you are getting your numbers. have asked you several times through the day in these comments. no answers, just these numbers.

Let's just let it all crash and we'll see how it works out...a real rain might wash the some of the accumulated detritus and debris off these streets anyway (at least according to Travis Bickle)!

And while we're on the way, let's give the public employees the right to strike. We'll see how all those "supervisors," managers and administrators do when they're left to actually perform the jobs they haven't dirtied their soft hands with for years (if ever), and how all these finely de-tuned multi-generational dependents of state welfare "programs" do when their "Quest" (card) finally (and rightfully) dries up--perhaps the bulk of them will head back to IL!

You can all blame the last moron-in-chief, Doyle, for the ascendancy (or is that spelled with two "s"s?) of this reactionary, Walker, and his election to the "throne" (from which WI will flush him as well a few years down the line after he mucks it all up in another--wrong--direction)!

Q: If Egyptians can do it, why can't we?
A: Those who work are too tired and too occupied with their lives at present, and those who don't work are far too satisfied with all the handouts and "programs" available to support them and their lethargic progeny!

The issue isn't whether or not public employees pay toward their pension or more toward their health insurance. The issue is the protection of their rights. This bill is crammed full of policy changes which have nothing to do with saving the state money.

Walker could have proposed a bill which would have achieved the saving he is looking for. Instead he is trying to impose changes which will reduce take away the fundemental right to negotiate.

Mr Steeber is a walking talking sterotype of a clueless government employee used to being pampered at the trough. Wellness Programs will solve the budget problem? Good Grief! Or as the ESPN football guys say "C'mon Man"!!!

Everyone knows that public employee concessions need to be part of the budget solution. However, forcing the entire solution on public employees in an 'all at once' fashion is simply not fair. A graduated approach to concessions would be a far better (indeed conservative) approach than what Walker is radically forcing, especially given his tax give-aways to businesses. His actions show that his priorities do not include working men and women, public or private.

I remember the union members at the FORMER GM plant telling us how they couldnt possibly make contributions or take cuts to make things more affordable for the "evil and greedy" company. I also know what it is like to keep paying more in taxes so they can get years of unemployment. It seems at though we have reached a crisis because we have avoided a correction for a long time.

If Walker didn't make these changes...:
194,539 Children would lose Badger Care Benefits; or
92,599 Adults would lose Badger Care Benefits; or
16,284 Elderly, blind, or disabled persons would lose Benefits; or
1,500 Public employees would lose their jobs
...These changes mean no salary cuts, no layoffs, no furloughs.
Union Leaders frequently earn more than $100,000/year. Marty Beil made $161,847 in 2008 off of union member’s dues.
States with Democratic Governors:
IL: 24 furlough days & raised taxes
CA: 10% pay cut for all employees & raised taxes
NY: 10% cut to university system & 7.3% cut in public school aid
FL: 5% pay in to pensions
NV: 5% pay cut for all employees & lays off 361 employees
Asking the employee to pay $ 164/mo for health care & $318/mo for retirement benefits

Mr Knilans had no problem taking union money and benefits for over 15 years! But now that it doesnt effect him I guess all unions are bad and we must agree with Boss Walker and whatever he says! WI. dictatorship here we come!

Ah - the scare tactics are out. Tell me, Rep. Wynn - just how many jobs are at stake if you don't bust up the unions? I can, to an extent, see the need to seek wage concessions, but the attack on the right of people to bargain collectively is not a money or job saving measure, it is a power grab. Vote NO, Rep. Wynn.

I agree - parents should tell their children that Walker is pond scum at home, where such talk belongs.

Unprofessional public teachers often use these situations to tell our public school students that Walker and Republicans are lower than pond scum and things of that nature. For parents of children that have such teachers, I hope they talk to and prepare their kids before they go back to school on Monday.

RAF, I still think that until the checks start to bounce and there is no money (or credit) some people just won't get it.

Steeber, a card carrying union member employed by the county, commenting as a member of Janesville city counsel? Conflict of interest or just pathetic? You make the call.

Everyone knows what needs to be done yet most will scream and cry when it happens.

What makes the least sense is to sell the Heating Plants. Thats like selling you furance and then letting someone charge you to heat your home for a profit.

"...Steeber said he also is concerned about Republicans “ramming this through” without public input."
You mean like the ban on synthetic marijuana Mr. Steeber? Who's doing the ramming now?
How doe it feel when it's happening to you?
I'm just saying'...

Knilans just became a one termer.

Workers rally at the State Capitol on Tuesday. Things get rolling at 11 AM, and contracted employees are encouraged to come immediately after work. DO NOT VIOLATE YOUR CONTRACT TO COME _WALKER WILL FIRE YOU IMMEDIATELY! Events planned until 8 PM or later. Rally repeats on Wednesday. Wear a pink heart on Monday to show solidarity with state workers and help defeat Walkers plan to bust the unions.