Only 5 states do not have collective bargaining for educators. Those states and their rankings on ACT/SAT scores are as follows:
S. Carolina - 50th
N. Carolina - 49th
Georgia - 48th
Texas - 47th
Virginia - 44th
Wisconsin, WITH collective bargaining for teachers, is ranked 2nd. That shouldn't last for long if the governor has his way.

"...precendent can be over-ruled by the masses, which it has."
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"Masses" =/= 80 republicans.
That laws can change is not the issue, but rather the manner in which this legislation has been attempted.

Stay away as long as you can! You perseverance is respected by many! What other choice did you have when a bully and tyrant like Walker and his minions forced you into a corner? They're irrational, unreasonable puppets in the hands of the Koch brothers. They actually think that this will do them good. Perhaps they should do some research on unions and their positive effects on the private sector. Naw! That would take some thinking and some extra effort. Instead, pass them another glass of Walker/Koch kool-aid. Btw, don't leave me any sites to check out that show how bad unions are, etc. I can find just as many that tell otherwise.

Look I know the Gazette will block this but I have to say this anyway for those of you that read it before the block it....Dems this was a chicken s#*t move...you are cowards and running is all you got...SHAME ON YOU

BunBun - Would you care to explain what you mean by, "a bill that had to be passed so we could find out what was in it"? And digress you have, as the point was that the process of health care reform is not comparable to the non-negotiated, undebated, ill-conceived, draconian effort of Scott Walker to shove through a bill to effectively bust unions.
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Yes, I do agree that the legislators should come back to Madison to debate and vote on the bill...once Scott Walker realizes that collective bargaining is not a source of revenue and that negotiating salary/benefit concessions, as the unions are willing to do, is far more beneficial than demanding them by wiping out contracts and union rights resulting from 50+ years of precedent.

Malky....I'm not familiar with the source cited in the link you posted. "Mother Jones"? Can you please tell me if their reporting runs down the middle and is impartial to both sides? We also saw a figure reporting how much the Koch Brothers donated to Walker's campaign. Can you please provide a dollar amount spent by state unions in their attempt to keep Walker out of office? In the spirit of fairness, both numbers should be posted, don't you think?

doc0430 Did you read the article? Walker spends $140 million, declares budget crisis, and then demands $137 million from workers. IT'S A SCAM!
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These cowards can run and hide now, but wait until election time - they can't hide from ballots.
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Agreed! Walker will be out as of February 2012! RECALL WALKER HE'S A STOOGE!

These cowards can run and hide now, but wait until election time - they can't hide from ballots.

Minan, A fake budget crisis? Are you crazy, you seriously think that this is not a budget crisis? You may want to look at those numbers and see just how much the budget shortfall actually is before you go and say Walker is creating a "FAKE" budget crisis, if anything the Democrats were the ones that created this budget crisis, which by the way is indeed very real!

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/0...

(This comment was forced to pay an Illinois highway toll by the site staff)

Could I get an answer from a Democrat on this one? Why is it that the previous legislature who by the way was controlled by the Democrats who also could of passed the proposed union agreement into law without any opposition decided to let the new group of legislatures handle the situation? Was there really any surprise in what Walker had planned to do all along? Doubtful but if you didn't pay attention when he was running for office you may have missed it. So why all of a sudden are the Republicans being attacked for doing exactly what they said would be done? Shouldn't the state employees be in outrage at the Democrats for not voting their union agreement into law when it was on the floor and only need a yes?
You can attack me becuase, yes I am a Republican but the above information can't be denied as being truthful. Why hasn't the original Democrat's decided to fall on their own sword for causing this mess in the first place?

What I wouldn't do for a city job where there is 1 guy working in a hole and 4 or 5 guys are watching him. We've all seen it. The taxpayers are paying for the guys with their thumbs you know where. Garbage collectors get paid for the whole day whether they work until noon or their whole shift. Why should the "regular joes" who work 8 to 15 hours a day up to 7 days a week have to pay for them? This is a great move on Walker's part.

Sadly, we must wait until Jan 3rd, 2012 to recall this college dropout. But we can recall the Senators and Assembly Reps who refuse to listen now if they have been in office over one year.

Maybe we could get a balanced budget if the DEMOCRATS would stop putting their special interest groups ahead of Wisconsin TAX PAYERS. IMPEACH the Democrats for failure to do their ELECTED JOBS!

From a former Republican; kudos to you state Democrats.
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Walker is a typical political sellout. I knew he was bad and that’s why I voted for Mark Neumann. Neumann lost the primary and the Republicans got their prize pig; Walker. I thought Doyle was bad.
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The politicians have forgotten that they work for us for the common good; not for profiteering special interests, nor for their own self-inflated egos. It’s way past the time that the citizens wake up and hold the politicians accountable for their actions. Who is ultimately to blame for the condition of our State and Country? It’s the politicians. We “hire” them to watch over our piece of the world and they take the power given to them and sell themselves like a common prostitute. Cut off their funding by forcing campaign financing reforms to weed out the bad politicians.
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Check out http://www.progressivesunited.org/home/
or http://www.wisdc.org/

IMPEACH the DEMOCRATS for failure to go their ELECTED JOBS!

"health care reform was a long process of debate, discussion, concession and compromise. The final product was altered from what was originally proposed."
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(I especially like the compromise part. How did anyone compromise on a bill that had to be passed so we could find out what was in it? - but I digress)
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So you agree that the dems should come back to Madison to debate and vote on the bill. If the bill is not legal, Im sure that the courts will rule so.

I'm neither Dem or Repub- union or non-here is an article that has the Dems explaining. Worth reading the whole thing. JMO
http://www.channel3000.com/politics/2691...

By worriedcitizen- " He will never be recalled. he has the backing of the majority".
Don't be so sure that your "majority" still exists. I know many people who voted for radical righty Scotty, and now regret it. Is it January 2012 yet?!

Gee wiz zoom, how much would the debt be if the budget was put through with zero increase?

Great video No Leftist. These people were on camera last night so it is them. As someone suggested, this is awesome video for the 2012 RNC convention.

Check out how proud the Dems are of their actions:

http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/20...

There is no budget crisis, which is the justification being used to eliminate collective bargaining rights. This is union busting.

The "projected" $3.6 billion deficit for the NEXT budget is based on REQUESTED (not authorized) state government agency spending increases of 6.2%. The media, including the Gazette, isn't reporting how this bogus budget deficit was fabricated.

What a bunch of LOSERS!

Sad how people are saying a week is to short a time for a bill but were completely silent when doyle and the dem controlled senate and legislature put through a 1.2 billion dollar tax hike bill in 36 hours; introduced, debated, voted on, and signed all within a day and a half.

Typical hypocrites...many of the same senators that are on the run today.

An inconvenience truth-Lee Harvey Oswald was not a right winger. He was a leftist. Darn.

"many of them" does not translate into "all of them"

See the difference?

Warmonger.

He will never be recalled. he has the backing of the majority.

I find it laughable that Gov. Walker describes the Democrats move to suppress the vote as theatrics and a stunt. Also to tell them to come back and do the job they were elected to do, when he himself has not done those very things himself. Since he took office he has not once even talked to the union reps. and instead just pushed to eliminate the union. I thought his job as a politician is to sit down and debate issues. I guess I stand corrected.

Thank you to the legislators standing up for democracy. Walker just wants to break the unions and erode workers rights.

Walker needs to stand firm on this--he is doing the right thing. I have no idea of the bureaucracy involved, but school districts should fire these teachers who have walked off the job. If they want to protest they should do it before or after work........

Bealab.....Big business moves in? As opposed to retaining unions and having big business continue to move out of the state? I think I would choose the first option.

mally if you are going to quote from the report, try your best to do it accurately; http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011... The number "was" estimated at +56 million not what you claim.

It has now been revised, true version not estimate, of negative 56 million. What a difference 2 weeks makes in accounting (govt accounting that is). http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/2011-13Bi...

RAF, according to the Fiscal Bureau, Wisconsin would have had a $121 million dollar budget surplus at the end of the current budget. It states Walkers giveaway to businesses ($140+ million) is what gave us the deficit. The $136 million that Walker states we're in the hole for is "projected".

Tim Cullen, where are you? Get back lawmakers and do your job. We don't pay you to relax at a resort. Have some backbone.

Bealab it appears you have incorrect information on what organizations or business' donate the most to whom. Where exactly did you get your information, big business only supports one party? Perhaps you need to look up information on your own before echoing false information peddled by others.

There are many free places to look, opensecrects.org is one of them. They have tabulated data since 1989 and conveniently provide a list of the heavy hitters, largest donators, to respective parties; http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php...

13 of the top 14 gave the majority of funding to democrats. You have to get to 19th on the list before you find a group that donated it's majority, their term of not on the fence, to republicans. Granted there is much money given to all sides. Point is what you said was incorrect, not sure where you received your information.

Zoom you really think there is no budget problem? Please explain how being millions in the hole for this budget and billions in the hole for the next budget is not a problem.

Middle class Republicans and middle class Democrats start to fight, and before long unions are gone. Big business moves in...and that's the end of that state. Except for the Republicans and the Kochs brothers.

But wait. No one thinks this governor is smart enough to do this on his own, right? Of course not! That's why the Koch brothers, BILLIONAIRES (once again Google it), support Republican candidates. They move into a state, fund a campaign, and then use THEIR elected offical as a puppet. That would be Pinnochio Walker.

Wake up people! This is not about a 2nd grade teacher having better dental insurance than you. It's about the Republican party doing away with the Democratic party. Do your research. The major contributors to the Republican party? Big surprise...big business. The major contributors to the Democratic party? UNIONS! Get rid of the unions? Get rid of the Democratic party. That is precisely what this governor has in mind.

I think it was Walker who ran out of the capitol first. He won't even give his speaches there for fear he might have to face the people he is trying to screw.. come on scooter man up..

There is no budget crisis, which is the justification being used to eliminate collective bargaining rights. This is union busting.

Kay, the fact people had to clean up after others is the issue, guess you missed it.

mr. knilans is hiding behind locked doors..now in whos basement or which house is still a mystery. so mr. knilans please call the people who you represent, and let us know!

RetiredAirForce - 1) No signs with sticks attached were allowed into the capitol. 2) Many people who did not bring signs then picked up and use these. 3) I was at the capitol tonight, and protesters were the ones helping to clean inside and outside the building. Signs are posted all in and around the capitol. Beautiful!

Nice pictures from the respectful people in Madison and what they leave behind during their tantrums.

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/02/how...

Desparate times call for desparate measures. When your lying rotten govenor and repbuttlicken' legislature tries to ram through the poison pill, take any measure necessary to defeat the demagogues!

Your irony is a double edged sword.

The irony is staggering from the party that brought the filibuster to an artform. The party of No just got No'ed.

Who is the desperado now?

That makes sense.

Old news Gary...they left there a long time ago.

I must have missed something. I thought ALL public employees were being hit. The only employees being mentioned in these posts are teachers. Boy, they ruin everything! To think that they are the SOLE reason this state is in such dire straights. Dang them & their Cadillac benefits that make up for the minuscule pay raises when everyone else was receiving handsome raises & bonuses when the economy was booming. They are SO selfish!

The lawmakers are in the Best Western Clock Tower Resort in Rockford Illinois.

From what I've heard of Knilans telling his constituents on this issue...it's apparent that his willingness to represent all of his electorate ended the day after the election.

What? You didn't hear Joe? He said "Baaaaaaa".

It has been so long since this country has witnessed democracy first hand we have forgotten what it truly looks like. Hopefully our children learn from it and do not become the complacent sheep most of us have become!!!
People demonstrating their right to protest, yes fire them all that is the true communist answer!

All this Capitol protesting and I haven't seen a single article about Joe Knillians opinion on the matter. It would be nice seeing as he was a union member and is a Republican. It's his time to shine in my opinion and not a word.

Great move on Walker's part. Divide and conquer! Pit everyone against each other. We seem to have enough money,though, that we can give big tax breaks to the corporations. That's something that we little people have to make up for. Wake up people and see what is really happening here.

Fleeing the state? Cute...thanks for the mid-day laugh! The democrats are providing true comic relief.

I am sick of hearing the senators who left the state walked out of their job. They are doing their job pretty damn well....listening to their constituents and having the backbone to stand up for what is right. Keep up the good work. Absolutely no need to hurry this through and pass it into law.

Our children are being shown the importance of standing up for our rights and beliefs...such a great real life lesson for them to see and experience first hand.

Didn't our nation's founders stand up for their rights and beliefs? Made us into a great nation.

the democrats have taken after walker, he was roaming the state earlier this week, instead of staying in madison, defending his proposed bill. how much has that cost the tax payers?

What a great move by the state democrats. THANK YOU! Very inspiring.
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I would love to backread this thread and read all the foaming-at-the-mouth conservative comments, but I'm too tired from walking around the capitol all day. Gotta get some rest for tomorrow. See you there!

"It is why the majority of the residents in the state voted for you."

Do your homework grandys618.
The majority of residents did NOT vote for him.

All you short sighted complainers would be bitching at the actions of Paul Revere and the boys if you were living back then.

I would like to know if, the Democrats who fled to IL today, paid for their gas and food with their own money, or if they used taxpayer dollars!

I hope when the company I work for decides to make the employees pay more for their health insurance that the teachers of Wisconsin will protest my wages and benefits.
Just about everybody has suffered from this recession why should the teachers of Wisconsin be excluded, take the pay cut get back to work or step aside there are plenty of qualified unemployed teachers that would be happy to do your job with less pay.

C'mon. You have to admit that this is a pretty creative, funny stunt. It only delays the inevitable, but it is good theater!

I said it before and I'll say it again. Before our government officials start attacking someone's pay, pension, health benefits, etc., they should start with their own! I am sick and tired of them making too much money, getting great perks, pensions and cadillac healthcare at the taxpayer's expense. How many people do you know gets paid for life after they're done in office?

Roadmaster, Do you really want to quote Jimmy Hoffa Jr. here? He has cut pension benefits and raised union dues, and that is what union can do, how is that good for anyone except for the leaders in the unions!
In case you doubt me here's a link updated today Thursday Feb. 17th last updated Thursday at 9:25pm
I suggest you and others that feel so strongly yet don't know why give it a read.
http://www.fightbacknews.org/2006/01/hof...

After you read it then tell me what you think and if it's still Jimmy you want to quote here.

As for "union guys at protests past beat up old women," I'd like to remind everyone about these Rand Paul Tea Partiers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtB5KlclM...

Protesters clogged the hallway outside the Senate chamber, beating on drums, holding signs deriding Walker and pleading for lawmakers to kill the bill. Some others even demonstrated outside lawmakers' homes.
Can you say disorderly conduct?
This is just a stunt being played by these lawmakers that fled the state, note to all of you, "You can run but you can't hide" they're just avoiding the inevitable from happening, eventually they will have to return and vote no which won't matter at all when all is said and done.
This is long overdue and I think everybody knows it no matter how much they won't admit it, plain and simple fact is things can not keep going the way they have for many years now and the only ones that lose in the end will be the Union leaders who have gotten rich for doing pretty much nothing for decades and decades, union workers have been lied to and ripped of for far to long and change is coming and when it's all said and done, everyone will be much better off!

Actually, BunBun, health care reform was a long process of debate, discussion, concession and compromise. The final product was altered from what was originally proposed. And though a vocal segment clearly represented their "No" mentality, much of the bill's provisions are favored by conservatives and progressives alike. And, as you pointed out, the debate continues on as court rulings come down in both favor and dissent of its constitutionality. It is an evolving piece of legislation that is resulting from much input and consideration.
As anyone should easily be able to see, it has no comparison to the non-negotiated, undebated, ill-conceived, draconian effort of Scott Walker to shove through a bill to effectively bust unions.

Dear Wisconsinites: I am 100% in favor of our Educators. Each day, our Educators arrive at school ready to work with our children & our future memebers of society. By standing up for their rights, our Educators are teaching our children to stand up for what they are passionate about. Our Educators are teaching our children to stand up for their rights. Our Educators earn every cent of their pay. Our children are the FUTURE of not only our great nation, but the world. I am posting this so my voice is heard and our Educaters know that I believe in what they do.

It's disgusting that lawmakers would flee to avoid making a vote. Remember that in the next election. These clowns have no business in government.

Yeah, I agree, inconvenienttruth. He mentioned health insurance & retirement benefits, but I never heard ANYTHING about stripping the unions of ALL negotiating rights until December...AFTER he was elected.

Then, justsome1here, would you say that Walker is also failing your expectations?
If so, why not address him as well (even in your response to Bealab, where you admitted you were "specifically addressing the legislators," you chose not to mention him)? Or, as I pointed out, were you simply abiding Walker's refusal to discuss or negotiate, while hypocritically admonishing the legislators who walked away from the vote on Walker's bill?

You guys are too funny. When you win an election we get our fearless leader stating "I won" as a reason he did not have to listen to the opposition over the (partially at least)unconstitutional health care law. When we win and just try to schedule a vote, you guys run away faster than the French from the Germans.
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what bravery..reminds me of Sir Robin ("when danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled....") but then that is typical, union guys at protests past beat up old women and bite the fingers off of old men.
the ends justify the means eh?

inconvenienttruth – To reiterate what I stated below: “I am ALWAYS dismayed when elected representatives are not willing to find workable solutions for all of their constituents, regardless of political affiliations.”
Apparently you misunderstood. My intent was only to admit that my beliefs are valid, because those are the ones that I own.

Smart move on the part of these Democrats. At least they are listening to the people of Wisconsin!

You bring up a good point, sk8, and one I've wondered about. Walker has claimed that his actions should be no surprise, as this bill was a part of his campaign platform...yet I don't recall him ever even hinting that he would effectively bust unions and replace their members with the National Guard if they were dissatisfied about it.
If anyone can cite a source in which Walker stated he would do just what he's done I'd appreciate it if you could share it.

It's my understanding that this is the platform Walker used when he was running for governor??? Why is this such a surprise to those who voted for him? If you really listened to what his plans were, would you have voted for him? This is affecting a lot of people, not just the union members. I'm not going to argue about politics, but I think we all better strap on our seat belts, because it's going to be a long ride. And the democrats running from this isn't going to help find a resolution any sooner! Our State is divided and will become more divided with each day that passes.....

its not just the teachers , its all public employees and the hidden thing s in this bill , federal aid would be lost for the madison bus system. then what ? raise the fairs get rid of the workers completely and hire it done privately like they do in milwaukee.

Hypocrisy: "An expression of agreement that is not supported by real conviction." - http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/web...
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You've not extended your conviction to Walker's inconsiderate actions and statements, only going so far as to condemn the legislators for their perceived lack of representation and cooperation in a process you naively believe to be that which those legislators swore to uphold.
But seeing as you apparently support consignment, and you've admitted my beliefs as being valid, I assume you have no more to add?

The party of temper-tantrums and run-&-hide.

inconvenienttruth – Hypocrite - somebody who pretends to have admirable principles, beliefs, or feelings but behaves otherwise.
Idealistic - somebody who aspires to or abides by high standards or principles.
I may be idealistic, but I definitely know that I am not a hypocrite and am most definitely not naïve. However, if you choose to believe otherwise, that is your right.

Good job, Bealab : )

What part of my response to your post gave you the indication that I've questioned your citizenship, justsome1here?
Anyway.
Yes, it is hypocritical of you to abide Walker's refusal to discuss or negotiate while lambasting legislators for returning the favor, as well as suggesting that those legislators do not represent their full constituency while failing to acknowledge Walker's own lack of consideration, let alone representation, of his full constituency.
And you're certainly naive enough to have suggested that fiat is the political process our representatives swore to uphold.
As far as your assertion that the legislators are hiding (they've made their location known to the public) instead of standing up for WI citizens, continuing a fight for another day is more commendable than consigning yourself to defeat.

Joel_Rodgers
Feb 17, 2011 at 6:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
I love the fact that the crowd of protesters are mostly College students who do not pay property taxes.
Just interesting.
...... are you for freakin real? Do you have any idea why kids and students get the big picture. You need to ask college students what it take to aquire a teaching licen$e, or to become a public servant in nursing or crime. You sound sour!

Wisconsin State Representative Mark Pocan
Walker’s Trojan Horse
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Governor Scott Walker’s manufactured $3.6 billion state budget deficit in the next biennium is rapidly unraveling as a bogus figure.
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Yesterday I pointed out that the figure is based on $3.9 billion in new agency requests (Table 1) for a spending increase of 6.2%, a figure we noted is never approved by the legislature. Those are REQUESTS, not actual dollars expended.
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Well today the non-partisan legislative Fiscal Bureau released a memo showing that in the current state budget, agencies requested a 9.7% increase in GPR dollars,
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yet were given an actual REDUCTION of 2.6%. .
That’s a difference of nearly $3.5 billion!
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That means this isn’t just a bunch of Democrats looking at the numbers that are being used to put a budget together and crying foul; this is hard and cold reality from a respected, unbiased resource – the non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau.
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Further, we also know that there was no statutory requirement for a “budget repair” bill from the same non-partisan source, yet Governor Walker is claiming we needed to act due to impending payments to the state of Minnesota and the money owed the Patient’s
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Compensation Fund. Well, chalk up another lie. Walker’s “Repair” bill addresses NEITHER.
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So just what is Governor Walker up to?
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Remember the Trojan War.
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The only way you can slip a bunch of bad public policy into law in Wisconsin is to disguise it as something else.
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Create a crisis, claim you are the sole path to resolving that crisis needing to enact whatever measures are necessary and be a hero to the people. Right...
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This week Walker is trying to be a darling of the national conservative movement by taking away workers rights, destroying collective bargaining and setting the stage for big cutbacks in Medicaid.
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Next week he announced a budget that is full of cuts to education, healthcare and funds for police and fire.
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All of these actions are hidden in the Trojan horse called the “budget repair” bill.
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Back then they warned “Beware Greeks bearing gifts.”
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Today the problem is the national conservative special interests get the gifts, while we get what comes from the tail end of this Trojan horse.
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(Next blog….How much of the
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$2 BILLION in tax breaks and loopholes Walker promised the wealthy during the election
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will be put into his budget causing a REAL budget crisis?)
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PLEASE READ THIS IF YOU TRULY WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT GOV WALKER IS DOING TO THIS STATE.
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THIS IS ABOUT SO MUCH MORE THAN PUBLIC EMPLOYEES AND UNION RIGHTS...IT IS ABOUT WHAT TYPE OF WI DO WE WANT?

inconvenienttruth – Whether you like it or not, those legislators that may represent you also may represent me. I am just as much a citizen as you are, regardless of whether or not you agree with me. It is in no way hypocritical, because I am not naïve enough to believe that whose represent me as a citizen will always agree with me on what I want AS a citizen.

justsome1here - Thanks for clearing that up. I'm glad that the latter annoys you too. Point taken.

Yeah. I hate it when I see young adults taking a stand for what they believe in because the outcome will not only negatively affect their current college education but possibly their future employment too. Dang! Don't they know that now is the time to be hanging out in their dorm rooms drinking beer and playing video games? Where's the good old-fashioned apathy that we love to see from young people!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

I told you I'd use it someday, inconvenienttruth.

Bealab – Nowhere in my post did I specify my political affiliation nor address the citizens who are exercising their right to protest. I was specifically addressing the legislators that decided to go in “hiding” rather than “stand” up for ALL citizen of their district REGARDLESS of their political affiliation.
I am ALWAYS dismayed when elected representatives are not wiling to find workable solutions for all of their constituents, regardless of political affiliations.

inconvenienttruth - AMEN!

Do we have to pay Tim Cullen if he skips work for the next 2 years? Could we consider him a "voluntary quit"?

Rockford Tea Party just chased the Dem's out of the Clock Tower/Best Western..they ran out and loaded on their bus! Now, where's Waldo ?

"The very process that they are sworn to uphold" is not the process of fiat, justsome1here.
Abiding Walker's refusal to discuss or negotiate while lambasting legislators for returning the favor is as hypocritical as your suggestion that WI Senators must represent all of their constituents while Walker apparently does not.
Permanently ending collective bargaining (for all public employee unions, save those that supported his election) has nothing to do with reducing pay/benefits, or expecting employees to pay more out of pocket for those benefits in the relative short term. It's pure political gamesmanship meant to bust unions.

intheloop - Lol! Yeah, I don't think that many of these posters who support the bill get that. They think Walker's truly looking out for them. NO. This has NOTHING to do with big business in our state. Or, the big business that will come to our state when they see how they can totally take advantage of workers because there aren't any protections. Trust me. Other unions are next on his radar.

The people of Wisconsin should APPLAUD them for not giving into a bully who apparently doesn't know the meaning of compromise...or won't even listen to any discussion...or...never mind. I forgot. Bullies like Walker are like that.

They made the right choice to go and NEGOTIATE a way to sort Walkers mess out Walker has hidden behind doors and done nothing but dictate what he is going to do regardless of what the affected people say or do. He is UNWILLING to hear any sensible solutions to the issue at hand It is his way and only his way and that does put the D in dictatorship. WE the people have a right to be heard and not be forced into the LIES he has used to do what he is doing to all he public employees at this time. Now be aware this will affect all workers of the middle class and below whether Union or not and some of you just don't get it. Everyone needs to see the actual deficit broken down and the real figures as then you will find the truth in the lies Walker is saying to the public STAND TALL, FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS AS WE HAVE EARNED THEM and we cannot allow this Dictator to take them away..... BTW I will be supporting all state workers and unions all the way

Excellent, pass this bill so I can lower my employees wages and not have to worry about them leaving for a govt. job.

This is against the law. These democrats should lose their jobs. The people of Wisconsin should sue them.

The same could be said about the Republican lawmakers who are not representing all of their constituents! I believe their constituents also include public employees who have been emailing and calling them. Oh, plus the 20,000 or more who have been protesting at the capitol. Could you see if "throwing a group of people under a bus" counts as representing your constituents?

Statistical Information Center - School Staff and Salary Data

http://dpi.state.wi.us/lbstat/newasr.htm...

“A legislator is elected to represent the citizens of a particular district who are known as his or her “constituents”.”
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/pubs/feat...
Legislators represent ALL citizens that live in their district, not just the ones who voted for them. It is often said that we lead by example. What example is this setting when our representatives do not have faith in the very process that they are sworn to uphold?
All citizens, regardless of their political affiliations, should be outraged at this type of childish behavior. As a citizen of the State of Wisconsin I am not only outraged but also embarrassed.

Here is what Jimmy Hoffa had to say:

Teamsters General President Jim Hoffa saluted the tens of thousands of people streaming into Wisconsin’s capital this week to protest Gov. Scott Walker’s budget proposal.

“It’s inspiring to see middle-class workers coming together to say they’ve had enough of this one-sided class war,” Hoffa said. “Government workers didn’t cause Wisconsin’s budget problems and they don’t deserve to be punished for them. Gov. Walker’s proposal is a vindictive attack on people he views as his political enemies. He should be bringing people together to create good jobs in Wisconsin, not tearing the state apart in a crass attempt at political payback.”

Democratic senators left the Statehouse today so that Republicans couldn’t vote on the bill, which was filed six days ago, without a quorum. Hoffa praised the Democrats as courageous.

"Governor Walker is trying to make an end run around democracy,” Hoffa said. “Democratic senators took a stand for Wisconsin workers who won’t be denied a voice in the process. They stood up in the face of injustice.”

“This union-busting budget proposal is the worst form of political payback,” Hoffa said. “Gov. Walker should be listening to middle-class workers in Wisconsin instead of shortsighted billionaires who don’t care about the long-term health of the state’s economy. The big corporations and the CEOs already have a big say about what goes on in Madison. Stripping government workers of their collective bargaining rights will silence their voices in the legislature and give even more power to the big corporate interests.”

Hoffa noted that Walker’s political campaign received a $43,000 donation from Koch Industries, the oil conglomerate owned by Charles and David Koch, longtime union foes. Walker also received $5 million from the Republican Governors Association, which is funded by billionaire Rupert Murdoch and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

“Wisconsin’s economy was strong when people worked together and there was balance between management and labor,” Hoffa said. “That balance has already been undermined, and now Gov. Walker wants to destroy it.

“No economy ever grew by arbitrarily driving down the living standards of working families,” Hoffa said.

Hoffa pointed to a study by the Institute for Wisconsin’s Future that showed Walker’s budget proposal would cost the state $1.1 billion in economic activity and 9,000 private sector jobs.
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inconvenienttruth - LOL! I sincerely apologize. I missed your earlier posts that clarify your position on this whole matter. Btw, adding the wikipedia link was a nice touch! I'm going to use that one someday.

Time for a docking of pay for these people who are NOT AT THEIR JOBS..!!!!!!!

Wait a minute! Remove the "respect" part. That was clearly a typo. But don't worry. You'll learn to get used to the lack of respect from students, parents, society, the government, uninformed and mean Gazette posters, etc.

Bealab, is your distortion of my post intentional, or due to confusion? Please refer to gonfo5's post at 3:30 p.m.
Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

I thought it might be helpful for all of the "teacher haters" to actually have some resources so that they can get their teaching degree and get all the pay, benefits, vacation time, and respect that teachers get. Websites to various Wisconsin colleges are listed below. See you in 4-5 years when you can breathe new life into the teaching profession. Good luck! You'll need it!

Whitewater
www.uww.edu/coe
Madison
www.education.wisc.edu

inconvenienttruth - "Because "the teachers" (all of 'em, apparently) are inherently dishonest. The notion of a teacher imparting truth to their students is absurd."
Wow. Strong statement. ALL teachers are dishonest? I guess that makes you inherently mean and hateful.

Well Nugnrose, we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. Does that make either of us wrong, absolutely not! We live in a free nation that allows us to argue to defend our beliefs no matter how crazy you, I or anyone else for that matter think they may be.
You have a great night as its time for dinner and some family time!

GOD BLESS THE DEMOCRATS!!!!!!

spark: "...many are making it sound like if you are not in union, your job must be terrible and the conditions are awful. Simply not the case."
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It wasn't my intent to give that impression, and I don't believe my statement does so. It's just a simple truth that businesses prioritize profit above the fair treatment/compensation of employees. Although many private sector employees are of course taken care of by their employers, this does not negate those who are not, especially considering that the private sector consists of more employees who do not require a skill or higher education. Such employees are easily replaceable.

Spark- I will agree with your 4:20 pm comment. My personal experience: I have worked for both union and non-union employers, wages/benefits and respect for employees were all better in union shops. Before anyone asks, I've never worked for GM. I've never "felt bad" for union shop owners, most have brought unions into their shops because of low wages/benefits and poor treatment of employees, no one to blame but themselves. As a side comment, this is the very reason government employees sought union protections.

Sorry gonfos5, but if you think it's just government employees that will support a recall of Walker you are mistaken. I may be off a little, but I believe the vote total was 52% to 48%, not exactly what I'd call a substantial margin, add some voters that didn't vote in November and some that have changed their minds about Walker and he can easily be in a world of hurt. Even if a recall election were to fail it sends a very strong message about his job rating, only a fool wouldn't take notice.

I find it odd that many on this blog are willing to call out the Democratic Senators, teachers, and others for their actions but are loathe to find fault with Walker, who refuses to negotiate, which is required by the still-in-effect state law. Isn't this a bit of a double standard?

When your union leaders bring back Jimmy Hoffa, I will believe your garbage about how great unions are for our state. Until then I am absoultely anti-Union all the way!

inconvenienttruth - you realize that the union makes up the smallest portion of the workforce? The majority works in private sector and there are many great businesses and employers that take care of their employees. I'm just saying, many are making it sound like if you are not in union, your job must be terrible and the conditions are awful. Simply not the case.

Loco-Lies? If students ask me what's going on I tell the truth. You don't even have to fudge this story to make it sound better for Dems. Any sane headed person could hear this bill and go, "so if unions agree to pay into pensions and health care, they'll leave the capitol as long as they keep their bargaining rights...." yes? yes? BUT HELLO, All Walker is trying to do is be all greedy and force something into the bill that has nothing to do with the budget. How about one thing at a time? Man, and where is he? I sure didn't see him at the Capitol answering any questions. But then again, without a college education.....

Found at resort ! The Democrat Senators are at the Best Western Clock Tower Resort in Rockford http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/116...

vatoloco: "I wonder what lies the teachers are telling the students because many of them probably have no idea what is going on."
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Because "the teachers" (all of 'em, apparently) are inherently dishonest. The notion of a teacher imparting truth to their students is absurd.

Sorry nugnrose but last time I checked there were not that many state employees in Wisconsin. Walker won with plenty of room to spare and is he doing anything he didn't say he planned on while running for office? Once the bill passes more states follow suit.
If he keeps doing what he says he plans on I will absolutely vote for him in the next election.

First of all, anybody here who believes Walker's so-called "budget repair bill" has anything to do with the budget is not worth arguing with - there's nothing I could or anybody could write that would convince you otherwise. I understand that. Beyond that this is about worker's rights, negotiated or otherwise and about a class war agenda that the poor and middle classes have no chance at winning - unless we start standing up for ourselves.

gonfo5: "They have more freedom to run their business and are not being held hostage by the union."
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In other words, more able to take advantage of employees, as businesses prioritize profit above the fair treatment/compensation of employees. You admit so yourself - "Companies are out to make a profit and if they don't, there is no need for the employees." Profit first, employees after.
It's the same line of thinking that would have the EPA abolished so as to allow businesses to more easily profit due to not having to consider their pollution.

gonfo5-Regarding your comment about hoping Wisconsin becomes a Right-To-Work state. Here are a few FACTS about that: There are 26 RTW states, in 22 of those states the average wage is 15% lower than non-RTW states, the other 4 states run between 5-10% lower. In all 26 states the benefit package is lower. It's a proven fact that RTW legislation has driven down wages/benefits in every state that has enacted it. Be careful what you wish for, that 15% brings a $12/hour job down to $10.20, a loss of $72/week or $3744 a year.

I wonder what lies the teachers are telling the students because many of them probably have no idea what is going on.

Walker must serve one year before he can be recalled, signatures on petitions collected over sixty days before his first year is up are invalid. Approximately 540,000 signatures will be needed to trigger a recall election. Mark your calendars, talk to your family, friends and neighbors, we can easily line up those 540,000 signatures before November. WALKER MUST GO.

Am I to presume that Tim Cullen has quite his new job already? If I did what he is doing my job would no longer exist.

youkillme - Aside from the union issues that are going on. Put that aside for a minute. Could you please explain how trying to get a handle on a defect is going to bankrupt a state that is already completely in the hole?

I truly am sorry youkillme but by breaking the unions, this actually makes it much more welcoming for businesses to move to Wisconsin. They have more freedom to run their business and are not being held hostage by the union. This will by no means bankrupt the state but will open up the borders for companies to want to move here. You don't have to believe me but if the bill does pass and Wisconsin becomes a right to work state, in the next year you will start seeing companies moving to Wisconsin. Companies are out to make a profit and if they don't, there is no need for the employees. I for one hope the owner of my company makes a ton more this year so I have a better chance at getting my piece of the pie. Most business owners are rich because they were willing to risk it all on a dream. Me in the middle class, I'm just not that big of a risk taker, which is why I am in the middle class.

You know what is odd is that last year when the Healthcare spending bill was being passed and also being opposed by the Republican/Tea Party, we were called every name in the book and including the party of "No". I don't feel the state employees are doing anything wrong by protesting as that is our right in this country but now that the shoe is on the other foot, it doesn't feel so good does it?
This statement isn't about right or wrong but you can't slay a group of people for opposing what your political group felt was right and then cry foul when they are passing something they feel is right! If my memory is correct, unions were exept from paying into this new healthcare system so that didn't affect this group anyways. I do understand there are plenty of state employees out there that are Republicans and this message is not inteded for you. At this point I'm not totally for or against the bill but I'm tired of hypocrits that live by "Do as I say, not as I do"! The next time you wish to point the finger for blame, look in the mirror first, you're getting much closer to the source of the problem.

Dear Republicans in the legislature. November 2012 is coming. Kiss your gub'mint jobs goodbye.

Dear Gov. Walker, a recall is coming before you get the chance to bankrupt the state.

Wisconsin State Representative Mark Pocan
Walker’s Trojan Horse
Governor Scott Walker’s manufactured $3.6 billion state budget deficit in the next biennium is rapidly unraveling as a bogus figure. Yesterday I pointed out that the figure is based on $3.9 billion in new agency requests (Table 1) for a spending increase of 6.2%, a figure we noted is never approved by the legislature. Those are REQUESTS, not actual dollars expended.

Well today the non-partisan legislative Fiscal Bureau released a memo showing that in the current state budget, agencies requested a 9.7% increase in GPR dollars, yet were given an actual REDUCTION of 2.6%. That’s a difference of nearly $3.5 billion!

That means this isn’t just a bunch of Democrats looking at the numbers that are being used to put a budget together and crying foul; this is hard and cold reality from a respected, unbiased resource – the non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau.

Further, we also know that there was no statutory requirement for a “budget repair” bill from the same non-partisan source, yet Governor Walker is claiming we needed to act due to impending payments to the state of Minnesota and the money owed the Patient’s

Compensation Fund. Well, chalk up another lie. Walker’s “Repair” bill addresses NEITHER.

So just what is Governor Walker up to?

Remember the Trojan War.

The only way you can slip a bunch of bad public policy into law in Wisconsin is to disguise it as something else.

Create a crisis, claim you are the sole path to resolving that crisis needing to enact whatever measures are necessary and be a hero to the people. Right...

This week Walker is trying to be a darling of the national conservative movement by taking away workers rights, destroying collective bargaining and setting the stage for big cutbacks in Medicaid. Next week he announced a budget that is full of cuts to education, healthcare and funds for police and fire.

All of these actions are hidden in the Trojan horse called the “budget repair” bill.

Back then they warned “Beware Greeks bearing gifts.”

Today the problem is the national conservative special interests get the gifts, while we get what comes from the tail end of this Trojan horse.

(Next blog….How much of the $2 BILLION in tax breaks and loopholes Walker promised the wealthy during the election will be put into his budget causing a REAL budget crisis?)

IMO, you've said a lot of nothing.

MOB rule elected Scott Walker to the governship and those republicans to the legislature. In that respect, you're right - it is a disaster. I'm sure things would be much better if we allowed one person, say you for instance, to appoint everyone. Sorry that mob rule (democracy) isn't as pretty as you'd like it to be.

Rumor is Senate Dems have fled to Iowa. Ironically, Iowa is a right to work state. Iowa's economy is doing much better than Wisconsin's, with a lower unemployment rate and large companies and jobs moving there. So, Senate Dems, if you decide to stay in Iowa and get a new job, rest assured you won't be forced to join a union and have dues come out of your paycheck.

"YouKillMe" I see the same lies again and again. The NAZI party was a workers party. (Arbeit = Work in German) They were Socialists. The communists are a labor party that does not care about individual rights at all. The Repulicans are those seeking rule of law (a Repulic) the Democrats are seeking a democracy, mob rule. The MOB gets to decide whats correct. Sort of like a lynch mob. Workers getting paid a fair wage is not what this is all about. It is about rule of law as opposed to MOB rule. That is a principal worth living for. That is a principal that made this country the greatest country in the world. MOB rule is a disaster.

NOTHING IN LIFE IS GUARANTEED PEOPLE! GET OVER IT! All these state workers have jobs now, what is the problem? Tell it to the people who don't have nothing. What a bunch of greedy bunch of people! I have no respect for all of these whiners. No respect!

HL_.....I feel bad for you.

oiseau
Feb 17, 2011 at 2:45 p.m.
This budget bill doesn't fix the budget. It doesn't address the budget. The amendment to remove all non-fiscal items from the budget bill failed 12-4. Someone please explain why there would be any non-fiscal items in a budget bill? Because it has nothing to do with a budget.
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Do people understand this? Why non-fiscal items in a fiscal budget bill? Why so quick to vote? What is the rush? Why not include the unions that supported Gov. Walker? Why threaten the national guard?
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Those who support this gov. what about these questions. Do you have answers or just more scare tactics? More calls for firings? More lies and accusations towards teachers and others? More exaggerations and generalizations about state employees?
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If this bill was just an increase in pension and health insurance fees...these protests would NOT BE HAPPENING AT THIS LEVEL! If this bill was given the same opportunity for debate as other bills...these protests would NTO BE HAPPENING AT THIS LEVEL!
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This is not about the $. The early frustration was but the 1000's protesting...the majority aren't doing so just because of the money. The majority are peacefully protesting because their rights and contracts are being trampled by a newly elected governor.

Standing up for something you believe in never makes you a coward. Ever. If they'd laid down and taken it, then they'd be cowards.

Hold fast Governor. We should have rule of law in this country. This is not a nation of MOB rule. I can not say it so well myself so try this excellent JS article: "Unions want to overturn election result" (http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/116...)

TO LOVEMYCOUNTRY....
I teach in one of those states that does not have a union for its state employees. Our insurance is one of the worst and most expensive in the country. All state employees had their salaries furloughed for 10 days...basically meaning that we worked for free on those days. The teachers in my state are expected to coach (very little compensation), sponsor clubs (no compensation), work ball games (no compensation), buy supplies for our classroom (no reimbursement), etc. etc.
Most of us here keep our jobs because we do love our students, but to think that we haven't marched on our state capitol, you are wrong. I stay at my job because I enjoy my students, but wish that I didn't have to work two more part time jobs to supplement my income and pay for my spouse's insurance ($650 per month)...trying to work in time for workshops and classes to keep my teaching license valid.
Oh, and would you please tell the parents of my students that I cannot afford to supply their kids with notebooks, pens, pencils, kleenex, hand sanitizer, notecards, etc. any longer. I have reached my yearly budget of $400 for the school year.

I've never been more proud of our students, teachers, firemen, workers and democratic legislators. Over the years, unions have fought off Nazis, Communists and Islamo-fascists. Now they're in a fight with republicans. It figures.

And we should at least talk about the benefits of the medicine before it gets rammed down our throats...

Then everyone needs to take the medicine, not just the ones we "think" need to take it.

The sour, harsh, bitter, and green tasting medicine is the one that will cure you.

I have 2 sisters a daughter and son-in-law that teach in Illinois. The State of Illinois took teacher pension money a couple years to balance the budget. My daughter says no negotiations with the state until Illinois starts contributing money into their pensions.

"please cite any state or federal statute that the teachers are violating"

Public opinion matters more and frankly, this absurd action will haunt the public employees in the future.

johnnyreb6977, please cite any state or federal statute that the teachers are violating. Like so many others, your mind-shrinking indeology lets you do nothing more than commit libel and slander.

usaret, you are incorrect on several matters. Your primary mistake is your failure to recognize that this indecent budget bill affects non-union employees as much as it does union employees, and it's occuring with no public discussion. Secondly, the contrived purpose of the bill is not to address state debt, but rather to address a current year budget deficit that was created by Walker and the Republicans with their already passed $140 million give-away to corporate interests. Without that newly passed corporate welfare, the state would end the current budget year with a surplus. If you're going to get angry about something, make sure it's something real and not contrived.

The public employees that are supposed to be working and are protesting in Madison are breaking the law and should be charged and fired! The Democrats that did not report to vote on the bill should be fined and have to reimburse the police for having to track their sorry a**es down.

Regardless of who voted for or against our current State legislative rekpresenative, that representative should be in MADISON doing his job his/her job and not cowering away in some dark corner trying to make a statement on how much they support the little people. It is phony. You represent, non-union, union, poor, middle and rich, Republican and Democrat, etc., and if you call this doing your job, you've just insulted my intelligence. Not everybody agrees with the UNION and you need to take that into consideration. If you are doing this hide away because you are more interested in votes for yourself then the people of the state of Wisconsin, shame on you. If the other side did this, you would be up in arms, yelling at the top of your collective voices on how bad this was. Well, consider this my lone yell on your embarrassing action to the people and the Great State of Wisconsin. We need representation that works for all of the People of Wisconsin, to bring us out of this debt before we CAN'T GET OUT OF IT. Not willing to make the hard choices, then go home so we can put someone in that will.

Unfortunately, though, no petition for recall of an officer may be offered for filing before the expiration of one year after commencement of the term of office for which the officer is elected.

To recall Walker and legislators in WI, there would need to be a petition with a number of signatures that equals or is greater than 25% of the number of votes cast for governor in the last election. The proscribed period of signature collection is 60 days. This should be doable.

"MADISON, Wis. – Police officers were dispatched Thursday to find Wisconsin state lawmakers who had apparently boycotted a vote on a sweeping bill that would strip most government workers of their collective bargaining rights."

"Bill opponents in the Senate gallery cheered when Senate President Mike Ellis announced that there were not enough senators present to proceed."

Okay, a boycott is the right tool for the job at the moment. But the urgent need is to start getting signatures on petitions to recall Walker. This guy is over the top, and the longer he remains in office, the more trouble he is going to cause.

The Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau found that the state will end the 2009-2011, budget with a balance of $121.4 million. Walker has proposed a $137 million budget “repair” bill which was not needed, until he approved $140 million in new special-interest spending. This spending involves schemes that redirect state tax dollars to wealthy individuals and corporate interests, increasing the deficit by more than $100 million. Maybe some of the surplus could have been applied to the deficit. He is simply using smoke and mirrors to pit people against each other and to deflect attention from what he is really doing. No one is taking notice of any of the other detrimental proposals in his budget. In order to pay for his favors he is attacking the middle class and unions. Everyone understands that we need to get the deficit under control. Why does it have to be done at the expense of those who can least afford it? Why is it that Republicans immediately look to cut anything that benefits society as a whole in order to provide favors for special interest? IMO they have painted anything that improves society as “Socialism” because most people don’t understand socialism and how the term is being used to scare people, just as the big “C” word was used in the 50’s.

The Dems are going AWOL. I think I've seen it all now! Babies!

Walker is just another Bush baby... it's his little time in the spotlight.
Again like Bush, just enough time to screw up and claim Victory.
Then off into the sunset on a fat pension and lifetime bodyguards.
Meantime the rest of us "R" or "D" can be used to keep the kettle boiling until the next idiot shows up, wanting to balance another budget.
There never will be a balance, but you workers and unemployed fall for it hook, line and sinker every-time.
Walker will spend your so called balanced check book, before he closes the door and turns out the light.
Keep attacking each other, while the likes of Walker line there pockets.

"Our goal is not to close schools." Maybe it should be. If teachers are held in as much contempt as the Republican assault on their bargaining rights suggests, maybe they have no other recourse than walking off the job until their demands are addressed. Then Walker can send the Guard into the schools. He'd really be saving money then, and the children of the wealthy in their private schools, as well as the children of teabaggers, who are home-schooled, wouldn't be affected by his actions. Walker only knows how to play to his base--the top 1 percent of earners and the teabaggers. Other than that, he's not even trying. He doesn't qualify as governor of all Wisconsinites.

tamrlu: the reason the collective bargaining must go is that the increases in the premiums for employees would just be bargained out in the negotiations. The two go hand in hand. If the workers can't afford to carry their fair share of the burdens of health care premiums like the rest of us--if we can even afford health insurance--they need to look for another job. They are lucky to have what they have.

When the amendment to remove all non-fiscal items came before the committee last night, it failed on a 12-4 vote. This bill has nothing to do with the budget.

Democratic Sen. Tim Cullen told reporters his caucus plans a walkout to protest the bill. from... http://budget.wispolitics.com/
- That's the "civility" he was promising during the campaign. :)

"seems like more of an assault on unions." Absolutely, and at the moment unions seem like low-hanging fruit--to them. But no matter how speedily Walker gets his union busting bill signed into law, his problems are just beginning. And he should see that. Capitol Square in Madison is becoming Tahrir Square USA.

packersfan1, how can you possibly ask 'What kind of example are parents and teachers setting for children by protesting?' and think of yourself as an American. You must have been sick at home on the school days when otherwise you would have learned that our nation was founded by protesters. The right to peacably assemble is the most fundamental of our rights, and by denigrating fellow citizens who are exercising their rights, you are proving yourself to be supremely unAmerican. You and those of your ilk would have been tories within the context of the American Revolution. Indeed, you are proving yourself to be an enemy of our nation.

Funny we had a surplus in the budget... and then we didn't.

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/...

HL_Mencken: What an incredible irresponsible post. Firing all of the law breaking teachers would put Wisconsin in an almost impossible bind. One might as well close all schools for the rest of the year. Do you think that the National Guard is capable of filling those slots? Think before you post again, please.

GO GOVERNOR WALKER !! Restoring personal rights for those that don't want to be forced to join a union when getting a state job, and don't want to be forced to pay dues with millions going to support one political party.

HL_Mencken, please cite any state or federal statute that the teachers are violating, and please explain how they are blackmailing anyone and how they're perpetrating extortion. Your mind-shrinking indeology lets you do nothing more than commit libel and slander.

Teachers have been a protected class for far too long, and their unions have been tools for the leftist re-education of America, at taxpayer expense.

Break the unions, let the teachers succeed or fail in their careers on their own merits, just like most of the rest of the real world.

State and Federal government employees excluded, of course.

Can you say "Drama Queen"?

Justsomeguy, Very, very well said and my sentiments exactly!

What kind of example are parents and teachers setting for children by protesting? It's even worse that some parents are taking their children with them to the protests. That being said, I'm not surprised they're protesting in Madison, which is primarily a left-wing city. To the teachers that are calling in sick so they can go to Madison and protest, think of the example you are setting for your students. You should be ashamed of yourselves. I hope you have to make up the time you missed from work because of your foolishness. You're well-paid, so you have nothing to complain about. You don't even have to pay for school supplies anymore. The parents have to pay for that.

I mean no disrespect to teachers, or any public sector employees. I have many teachers in my family and am the product of a fantastic public education.

That being said, the private sector employees or others who "agree" with this bill are keeping their mouths shut because any attempt to point out any positive implications are seen as teacher bashing. I think all we want is fiscal responsibility in our elected officials.

I put "agree" in quotes because none of us want to see the public sector lose benefits, wages, or bargaining rights. I don't specifically "agree" with this bill - there are parts I disagree with - but I do applaud any leader who demands fiscal responsibility. It's a welcome sight especially after all the evidence of irresponsibility - personal, government, banking and business - that led us into a catastrophe.

The other issue is that many of the public sector employees are blaming the governor for creating a rift between public and private sector. I think the rift is created by assumptions made on both sides of the employment divide. Statements like, "even though I and my fellow public employees earned those benefits at the expense of the wage increases the private sector was getting years ago", contains the assumption that private sector employees have received wage increases. That's a huge generalization. Our company has had a wage freeze for 3 years, while cutting benefits. It's truly going on everywhere. So I would encourage you to leave these generalizations out of your arguments - they only help to widen the rift.

Lastly, there is an assumption that with no union you will be unable to negotiate at the bargaining table. Is there any proof of that? I've worked in non-union companies before where the employees were still able to negotiate, still got raises, benefits, etc. The floor didn't drop out.

tamrlu & giddyup, thank you for being public sector employees. Whatever your career path, it is understood that you are most likely not paid what you're worth. When you close in on the end of your career, I'm sure you will take great pleasure in knowing how many lives you've affected, whether it be children, the sick, or the public in general. I wish people wouldn't get hurt by tough choices. But I also cannot stand to see Wisconsin sink into bankruptcy. It's a very tough position, and hopefully some compromise will be found where we all can share in the burden of getting things back on track.

My husband did not ask anyone to contribute to his pension. If he was in a private sector job he would opt NOT to have a retirement fund because we CAN'T afford it. So now that he is being forced to contribute to his pension (there is NO option to opt out) we won't be able to survive on his reduced take home!

Our educator's pay taxes as well. Have any of you given that a thought? Many educator's own homes and pay property taxes. They, too, are supporting not only themselves, but other public professionals as well.

Have you lost sight that the educators are preparing our children for the future? Our children are going to grow up to be future presidents, lawyers, doctors, and educators. What message are we sending our children by not supporting our educators?

How many of you are aware that the educators use their personal time to prepare lessons and grade homework? How many of you are aware that our educators often use their personal finance to purchase things for the classroom? The classroom that our children are in every day.

If Walker's proposal goes through, are you aware of the changes that are going to impact our children? Larger classes, less one on one with our children, less teacher aides. Our children, our future, will be severly impacted by the proposal.

Here is an idea: instead of bashing our educators, stand up for their rights and the rights and futures of our children.

Justsomeguy- We in our contract (remember there are 19 different contracts with different compensations) Have paid for our health insurance, dental insurance, eye care insurance, pension, and also have made payments to supplement our retirement and pay for continuing our health insurance after retirement if needed. We understand the need for more percentages. Our "gripe" that has our institution protesting is the bargaining, the timeline, and the lack of discussion. The governor says that this is a dialog. That is the same definition as discussion. Anyway. Many of us are also very concerned about the rest of the provisions in the bill.

I am a public sector employee who belongs to a public sector union. If my union and the state were at the bargaining table, and the state proposed the cuts/cost sharing that has been reported, and my union brought it up for a vote, I would vote to approve. I understand that times are difficult for everyone and am willing to make the sacrifice, even though I and my fellow public employees eaned those benefits at the expense of the wage increases the private sector was getting years ago when we bargained for these benefits. What I think is wrong is Gov. Walker going after my right to bargain for everything. I think it is only fair that everything be on the table, especially since I have no recourse other than to quit since I am not legally allowed to strike or take any other type of job action.

tamrlu, with all due respect, if the public sector employees haven't been paying into their own health insurance or pensions, where do you think the money comes from? With the large number of public employees, those numbers can't be that far off.

freebird- Going to say the same thing to you as I did yesterday. You honestly believe numbers being given out? From anyone? You don't think there is slant or bias?

Taysgranny.. my hat is off to you.. well said and I agree totally..

POSTED YESTERDAY!!!!
The Cost of Public Sector Benefits
Madison–In an effort to raise awareness about the cost of public sector employee benefits today Governor Walker’s office released the following fact sheet.
·In 2001 taxpayers contributed $423 million dollars to state employee health insurance premiums, while in 2011 taxpayers contributed more than $1 billion dollars. In 2011, state employees paid $64 million toward their health insurance, or about 5.6% of the total cost. (ETF Health Care Analysis)

·From 2001 to 2010 taxpayers spent more than $8 billion dollars on state employee health care coverage—over the same period of time state employees contributed about $398 million. (ETF Health Care Analysis)

·Public employers contributed almost $1.37 billion to the state’s pension fund in 2009, while employees contributed about $8 million, or about 0.6%. (LFB paper 84 Wisconsin Retirement System, Table 28)

·From 2000 to 2009 taxpayers spent about $12.6 billion on public employee pensions, during the same period public employees contributed $55.4 million. (LFB paper 84 Wisconsin Retirement System, Table 28)

·When looking at state operations, state employees account for about 60% of taxpayer cost—77% of state operations for the UW are employees, 70% for corrections, 63% for health services. (State Budget Office Memo 2-9-11)

·Wisconsin taxpayers currently make nearly a 100% payment for the employee portion of the public sector pension contribution. Illinois and Indiana taxpayers contribute the entire employee portion as well, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota and Ohio pay 0% of the employee contribution. (State Budget Office Memo 2-9-11)

·Public employees in Wisconsin are vested in the retirement system immediately, while in Illinois it takes 8 years, 10 years in Indiana, 4 years in Iowa, 10 years in Michigan, 3 years in Minnesota, and 5 years in Ohio. (State Budget Office Memo 2-9-11)

·Survey data finds that private employer HMO plans in Wisconsin typically require a co-pay of $18 per office visit, $45 per specialist visit, $75 per emergency room visit, or $175 in-patient treatment. The average health insurance premium for these plans averaged $108 per month for single coverage and $261 for family. (State Budget Office Memo 2-9-11)

·Taxpayers spent $733 million of general purpose revenue on fringe benefits for state employees in fiscal year 2010. (State Budget Office Memo 2-9-11)

·Fringe benefits made up 25.6% of school district expenditures in 2008-09. (State Budget Office Memo 2-9-11)

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for standing up for our rights, BUT, not at the expense of our childrens school day! Teachers and all public employees need to understand they've had the majority of their benefits paid for them for many, many years. Us, in the private sector, have eaten more and more costs of our insurance & retirement every year.

What are they teaching our kids by not going to work? The lesson plan: If you don't like what is happening, just leave your job & responsibilities and go protest. And, make sure you take your own small children to see how adults can have fits just like them!

Again, I am for our rights, but not at our kids expense. If your heart is only in the job for your paycheck and benefits, find another job! I want someone who truly cares for my kids! Cudos to Milton, Janesville, Brodhead for staying on the job!

Cynicaleye - "No new business or jobs will come into this state with his union busting antics." GET A CLUE Cynical Eye, name one employer that wishes its employees would become part of a union!!

wtp- why not go be a prison guard? if you can pass the testing, and the physical, and can qualify on the firing range, you too can make a starting wage of around $12. You will have no recourse against any inmate that may throw feces or other bodily fluid on you, hit you, stab you, verbally assault you, etc. Yep, the public workers are overpaid.

I for one is very happy to sse someone stand up to the unions who have hurt this country over the yrs for the average wage worker. Unions over inflated wages and benefits has been psssed down to everyone. The average starting wages is $11.00. It takes two incomes today to survive because we end up paying there benefits and excessive wages. This country will be better off if all where on the same playing field.

grandy, I understand your sentiments, and as an American you are entitled to them as I am to mine. You are in the 2% majority of the 50% of the populace that actually voted. We in our household, and many that are in the unions agree that the added costs for our benefits aren't easy, but we will make do. It's the bargaining that is the issue, and that's mostly about having a say so in what happens in the workplace. That being said...go beyond the labor issues. With this bill, BadgerCare and SeniorCare are just 2 of the programs that would be under the governor's control with no legislative oversight. When those programs get gutted, the people on them will not stop needing the services. You and I and all of the people in the state will then be paying more for our medical care and insurance to cover for them. This bill is about so much more than the labor issue. I think that they should take more time with it. Plan unveiled behind closed doors to one party on Thurs., voted on the following Thurs. doesn't leave much time to honestly look at what it will cost. This isn't going to save anyone anything, and will not fill the budget gaps. You won't be getting tax relief, you will be receiving less service at the state, county and local levels. Without bargaining ability, the "boss" can do whatever they want to the workers and their employment. We need to get beyond the labor issue and look deeply and quickly at the entire bill. Republican, Democrat, Independent, Whig, Green, etc. doesn't matter when power grabs by one person can cause detriment to the masses.

Collective bargaining is not a "right". In fact, 20 states do not have state employee unions. Those state employees in other states aren't protesting, they are working at good jobs just like Wisconsin state employees are and will be in the future.

People in this state voted for change, reasonable change. They did not vote for the dictitorial stance Scott Walker is taking. What is so wrong with negoiating? He is dangerous for Wisconsin. No new business or jobs will come into this state with his union busting antics. How much is he paying for his pension and health care as governer?

That's what I've been trying to tell people, and they just won't listen. They mostly want to bash the teacher's union- forgetting that there are a lot of state workers that don't have the same kind of contracts that teachers do. There is so much in this bill that no one will pay attention to, and when it slaps them in the face too they will complain. Rationality has flown out the window. Walker got his middle class war between the sectors. In doing so, the really important issues have been ignored by the populace.

With all the talk about Scott Walkers Budget Repair Bill and what it will do to Unions people should also worry about BadgerCare Plus and BadgerCare Core plans, FamilyCare and SeniorCare
Mr. Walker buried deep in the bill is a clause that would give his administration sweeping powers to reshape state health programs covering more than 1 million state residents.
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