@tedmlewis- nice quote, too bad it is irrelevant to this discussion. For those of you who are too young to remember, the reference is to SOLIDARITY-the shipworkers union in Poland. Our issue here is GOVERNMENT workers not a private union. The Polish government workers were covered by their own union - the Communist party.

"...they [the Polish government] have made it clear that they never had any intention of restoring one of the most elemental human rights—the right to belong to a free trade union."
Ronald Reagan, former president of a union and the United States

http://interested-party.blogspot.com/201...

"The bottom line on this issue is this: one side views teachers as villains and Walker as a hero while the other side sees teachers as heros and Walker as the villain."

Not true. Some see forced unionism as the villain. Union membership should be a matter of choice. Bring on the right to work state!

The bottom line on this issue is this: one side views teachers as villains and Walker as a hero while the other side sees teachers as heros and Walker as the villain.
-
How anyone who is intellectually honest with themselves could stand behind Walker is beyond me. But then, I don't think there is a whole lot of that happening.

werpknarly
Feb 26, 2011 at 5:53 p.m.
Suggest removal

anyone see video of guy voting for himself.. AND pushing the buttons of three other assmblymen ????
----------------
I did, and he wasn't the only one.

Jayem, did you not listen to the Walker/"Koch" phone call? Or read about how the Republicans started the meeting early last week and took a vote before they could legally do so? Or watch the video where this week's vote happened with no notice and there was only 10 seconds to cast a vote? If so, please explain how any of this was fair or honorable (or, in some instances, legal).

Why is a 3% tax increase on the richest considered "socialism" but an 8% pay cut on the middle class is "doing your part"?

anyone see video of guy voting for himself.. AND pushing the buttons of three other assmblymen ????

Meanwhile Obama signs an extension of the Patriot Act - a genuine attack on our constitutional rights. Possibly some at the capitol should move their outrage and protest to D.C.

Since most people will not bother to do a direct comparison. In order to be fair I used Wiki and their own foundation sites.
George Soros:
"Soros is Chairman of the Soros Fund Management and the Open Society Institute and a former member of the Board of Directors of the Council on Foreign Relations. He played a significant role in the peaceful transition from communism to capitalism in Hungary (1984–1989 and provided Europe's largest-ever higher education endowment to Central European University in Budapest.
Programs include the education of librarians and others; expansion of a free press, Internet, and e-mail communication; publishing; human rights; arts and culture; and social, legal, and economic reform". One such program, for example, is the Library of Congress." (Wiki)
Total expenditures by the Open Society Foundations average between $400 million and $500 million a year.
The Open Society Foundations fund a range of programs around the world, from public health to education to business development. For more information on the kind of programs they fund, visit the Initiatives section of the website. http://www.soros.org/about/initiatives

Koch Brothers:
"According to the Koch Family Foundations and Philanthropy website, "the foundations and the individual giving of Koch family members" have financially supported organizations "fostering entrepreneurship, education, human services, at-risk youth, arts and culture, and medical research.
David H. Koch and Charles G. Koch—the two brothers still with Koch Industries—are affiliated with the Koch family foundations and are also known for their funding of conservative and libertarian policy and advocacy groups in the United States. Since the 1980s the Koch foundations have given more than $100 million to such organizations, among these think tanks like the Heritage Foundation and the Cato Institute, as well Americans for Prosperity." (Wiki)
The Foundation typically awards approximately $10-12 million to Catholic non–profit organizations worldwide.
Awards range from $500 to $1,000,000. The average award amount is around $25,000.
Approximately 700 awards are made each year.
http://www.thekochfoundation.org/faqs.ht...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpJHkP7tg...

"So are you saying that the wealthy aren't paying taxes????"
--factsplease

I didn't mentioned the wealthy. But since you brought it up, yes they do. In fact, they pay the majority of the taxes.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxa...
http://reason.com/blog/2010/12/14/evil-b...

About half of Americans pay no federal income tax.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-hal...

I am a union employee, that has seen the lazy non productive ones being protected by the union while I work my a** off. In our plant, if you intimidate or try to control someone you are protected. So much for reporting it to the union. As for protection, you break into my house, you will not be alive. If I have a heart attack, I have lived a good live and died with honor. Fire, we will rebuild with non union work,

"DumbBun, ....blah, blah,.,,,, stealing you moron."
.
Ah, this must be an example of civility from the left. You also forgot to call me a Nazi or something like that.
.
perhaps you wish to reconsider calling me a moron. You have displayed a giant leap of intellectual prowess and guessed that I drive on roads. Your assertions that because clearing of these roads is funded by taxes I am a thief because I don't wish to pay said taxes is false - (more EYSTERITIS) HOW AM I A THIEF IF I AM STILL PAYING THE TAXES? Am I a thief because I think too much money is stolen from me on a weekly basis?

At this point in time I think the general public is suffering from political fatigue.
The Democrats have overplayed their hand.
I agree with jayem that the histrionics only serve to turn people away.

www.notmywisconsin.com/facts/

We have to keep vigilant in watching Walker to see if he does anything illegal. If he does, then we have grounds to impeach him. Just like they did in Illinois to Governor Begovich.

maxdetail, I can do without the sarcasm.

There are some interesting developments on this story:

http://gazettextra.com/news/2010/jul/15/...

"The Koch brothers were convicted in a court of law of STEALING from tax payers! I'm guess that it is just your OPINION that the unions are stealing or do you have proof of that?"
.
Money is forcibly removed from my paycheck under threat of imprisonment. If I don't empty my wallet to the county treasurer they take my house. It may only be my opinion, but when something is taken against my will while my well being is threatened, it seems to fulfill the definition of theft to me. if you knowingly receive stolen property, you are also guilty.

"maxdetail, they are the founding members of Up With People."

Gazettefan, you made me laugh, thanks. Hope all is well with you.

"So are you saying that the wealthy aren't paying taxes????"
------------------
In 2007, 2 out of 3 Class C corporations in WI reported no income or a net loss.
From the WI Dept. of Revenue:
http://www.revenue.wi.gov/ra/CorpIncFran...
------------------
Methinks too many loop holes... or... WI private corporations are lame. Either way, little 'ol me paid more in taxes than 34,000 corporations.

Has anyone even read the Budget Repair Bill? In its 144 page entirety? I found some bizarre stuff woven into the fabric of this budget bill... and I skipped over the page about the unions.
-------------------
Link to bill posted on WI government site:
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/JR1SB-11.pdf

Here...don't even look it up for yourself...thank gmaof3.

http://dwd.wisconsin.gov/dwd/workers.htm...

You see...this is the level of ignorance that still prevails. Wisconsin has labor laws to protect employees from employers who behave in an illegal manner. You can do your own search as I have and see for yourself. You folks who believe that the passage of the budget repair bill will somehow render you a slave are just simply ill informed. I don't know how else to say it. You really need to look into these things if you are afraid. You are being sold these lies by a union that you don't need that just wants your money.

I am a Union worker in a specialized long term care facility. I work to "produce" a decent quality of life for individuals no longer able to care for themselves! For some, it's a quality of life at the end of their life...for others, it's a quality of life after they've suffered long term disability as a result of illness or injury. Look amongst yourselves and realize that you may very well become a member of this population. This past week I voluntarily forgave all my breaks to ensure the safety and promote that quality of life for those in my care. It was my choice to do so not only because I felt that I had to...but because of the very nature of my work. After Mr. Walker takes away collective bargaining for work conditons, that choice will no longer be mine. In an effort to cut back and get more for less...my working conditions will deteriorate drastically where it will no longer be my choice to make these sacrifices when needed for the sake of the population. I will be put in a position to have to do more with less which will drastically & negatively impact the quality and quantitiy of care that I provide.

The 2010 gubernatorial election was actually pretty close—not a landslide by any means.

What Fox News isn't reporting, and the story barely mentions, is that the Democrats were so angry because they were given mere seconds to record their vote on the bill. Only 13 of 38 democrats had their vote recorded, because the Republicans orchestrated the quick vote.

The Republicans are complaining about 14 Democratic state Senators not doing their job, but it appears the Republican Assembly couldn't do their job properly and allow all of the Democrats to have their vote recorded.

Dr Talk:"Hardly. Public employees make their living off the working class. It's the public employees that want to bite the hand that feeds them."
*
So are you saying that the wealthy aren't paying taxes????

"So did Russ Feingold. But only one of them is waging a war against the working class, and it's not Feingold."
--youkillme

Hardly. Public employees make their living off the working class. It's the public employees that want to bite the hand that feeds them.

Whatching these ignorant monkeys rant and rave is the funniest thing I have ever seen!! They must have forgot going in they were the minority?? These monkeys need to get a clue and act like humans this is how democracy works. The Majority spoke in November!

BunBnn,The Koch brothers were convicted in a court of law of STEALING from tax payers! I'm guess that it is just your OPINION that the unions are stealing or do you have proof of that?

The Koch brothers couldn't afford these unions for one year. Then who's next? That's the trouble when your appetite gets so large. NOTHING can keep you happy anymore.
--------
HALF WAY HOME!
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The more the people get to watch these nut jobs, the more of them think it's a good idea to take the cookie jar away from them.

Mooser, have you ever tried clicking on one of your posted links?

"want government and regulation to go away so they can STEAL anything they want and continue to get away with it."
.
Whereas the union/democrat party wants more govt and regulation so they can STEAL anything they want and continue to get away with it.

Dr. Talk, the Koch brothers want government and regulation to go away so they can STEAL anything they want and continue to get away with it. Those other issues are based on their libertarian beliefs, but at the heart of it, they want "freedom" to continue their "organized crime"(their brother's description).

ATTENTION ATTENTION: WE HAVE TOO MANY RUMORS AND NOT ENOUGH FACTS. For example: most state employee unions have been paying for their health care and pensions for years. WANT PROOF? Some City of Janesville Labor Unions have given up percentage raises in exchange for not paying for pensions. This has been happening since the late 70’s and has been happening across the state. Teacher Unions, for reasons I can’t believe, have been giving up raises to keep health care costs down to a minimum for years. If the teachers had taken their raises and paid more for their health care things wouldn’t look so bad for them right now. Mr. Steve Sheiffer, probably one of the biggest bullies/babies this city has ever seen as a city manager, negotiated with unions on pensions and health care costs for 20 plus years. He knew that he would be ahead in the long run by paying for pensions and some health care costs, instead of giving annual raises. WANT MORE RUMORS. I hear that unions protect bad employees. Basically saying union employees can get away with murder because they’re “protected”. That is not true either. Unions protect their body by making sure union employees get due process from their employers. Without due process employers could fire people without just cause. Some people may think that an employer should be able to fire someone without just cause. Well those people either do the firing or have never been fired without a reason. I am not saying that all unions are good and unions do no wrong. Something like that can’t be said about any organization. However, unions have served an important purpose for decades. Whether you work in the private or public sector you enjoy working rights that can be attributed to some type of union influence. I hope that the public really reads up on all the issues on both sides. Water cooler opinions and facts usually lead to uninformed voters. Just watch FOX News or MSNBC. Both networks skew the facts to support their owner’s special interests. Good Luck to all Wisconsin workers in the future. We are going to need it.

DrTalk says ---" The Koch brothers want to:
1. decriminalize drugs,
2. legalize gay marriage,
3. repeal the Patriot Act,
4. end the police state,
5. cut defense spending"

So did Russ Feingold. But only one of them is waging a war against the working class, and it's not Feingold.

factsplease,
The Koch brothers want to:
1. decriminalize drugs,
2. legalize gay marriage,
3. repeal the Patriot Act,
4. end the police state,
5. cut defense spending.
http://reason.com/blog/2011/02/24/evil-k...

WOW! I am not into politics but even I can see that this is bull crap. I am not in the Union and I pay for my healthcare and my retirement, etc. etc. But this is like absolutely ridiculous. The public union employees have already agreed that they would pay their fair share for health care and retirement plans. Why take away the rest of their collective bargaining rights? You really think that this is going to balance the budget -whatever. And why was Walker not willing to sit down and at least discuss this and talk with the union employees. It's like he took office and now he is "god". Granted balancing the budget was his "platform" but come on. I don't think anyone saw that he would be a union buster and be so arrogant about this. My husband would be so furious about this --God rest his soul. He was a union electrician and very proud of it --Local 890 to be exact. This whole situation is absolutely ludicrous!

Thank you factsplease! What is the liklyhood this will pass the Senate? Is there a time limit? Do you think the Dems will come back as long as this is on the table?

And look who else is in the Koch brothers pocket.
"Madison, WI - U.S. House Republican Budget Chair Paul Ryan of Janesville traveled to a secret California fundraising junket this past weekend run by billionaires Charles and David Koch, the major financers of the so-called tea party movement, the ThinkProgress news site reported today."

I don't know the accuracy of this, but it's an interesting perspective.

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/0...

disneygirl, it has to pass BOTH the assembly and the senate before it can become law. One down, one to go. So it has moved closer to law now.

mooser you have to copy the link from the source, it doesn't work to copy it from my post
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/11/2...

Can anyone please clear up for me WHY the big deal to get it through the assembly? Isn't this bill right back where it started? In the Senate where it will go nowhere because the Dems won't come back? Why go through all the Drama in assembly to just be back where it started? Thanks in advance-this stuff is driving me nuts

Kid - I see your point regarding drug testing for people on assistance. One possible way to begin is to require the people to pay for it out of the benefits they receive. All of those who want to take away benefits from the poor might want to consider this. People who are able to function well in society and hold down regular jobs are all cogs and gears in the economic machine. Not everyone has the integrity, intelligence and fortitude to be an active participant in the machine. The important point is how do we treat the lower levels of society and what do they have to lose and what do you have to lose. If we turn our backs on them they will find a way to survive and you may not like what that means. Robbery, Prostitution, Drug Dealing, or worse.

The last few years of economic turmoil has brought out the worst in people. One side you have those without jobs for a variety of reasons. The other side you have people that are employed and a good percentage feel the other side is not doing enough to find work. Fear of financial and job security divides our nation and the benefactors are the corporations who've lowered the standard of living for us all in the name of profits. All the while CEO's bring home the lions share of the earnings and some in spite of poor performance and record losses. Now our politicians who've been on a spending spree for decades lining the pockets of special interest look to the workers for cuts. The future is not bright for Wisconsin or the USA and what you've seen in Madison is only the beginning. Spending cuts are looming for all entitlements, wages, goods procurement and this is the real trickle down economics which means every retail establishment will feel the pain when less money is spent. No real good news to be had and just a sign of the times.

maxdetail, they are the founding members of Up With People.

Let's take even further.

There is no denying taxpayers pay the total compensation package for public employees as negotiated. Public sector employees earned it even more than private sector workers. It's the "negotiation" they want to get rid of - those pesky unions. But, who really pays a major portion of the boss's portion of a private sector worker's health care package? Taxpayers again! In the form of a $2500 tax credit for individuals and about a $5,500 tax credit for families that the employer gets from the good ol' U.S. government. The private sector benefits are actually subsidized - not earned. While the public sector is earned and negotiated.

(This comment was thrown in a state power plant incinerator by the site staff)

be thankful it wasnt thrown into a formerly state owned power plant that was sold WITH NO BID per the budget repair bill to someone like the koch brothers in the 'best interest of the state' and to secure a board of directors job post governor job...

Spark says -- "your take is workers already have pension contributions deducted from their pay as part of their total salary/benefits package.
-
Correct, but their pay itself is still coming from the taxpayer. That's where it's misleading."---------If you really believe that, then you must also believe that private sector workers contribute NOTHING to their health care and benefits package, since all of the money they've earned is still coming from their employer. SO, all workers, public and private, contribute the same amount to their benefits - nothing.

Spark, of course their pay come from the taxpayers, are you suggesting they work for free?

It's probably safe to say that none of the Walker supporterss posting here are rich enough to be considered true Republicans! Just wait and see how Walker's actions will affect you too! Silly little sheep....

No wonder they want to get rid of the EPA!

vatoloco- Your comment makes two things perfectly clear. 1) You present a grossly distorted, completely untrue version of unions position in the collective bargaining process. 2) The unions spend the members money (it's not the union's money) to promote, protect, and benefit it's members, while the Koch brothers spend their money to benefit only themselves.

Charger - Headline reads: The Wisconsin Lie Exposed – Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions.
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your take is workers already have pension contributions deducted from their pay as part of their total salary/benefits package.
-
Correct, but their pay itself is still coming from the taxpayer. That's where it's misleading.

The tail is wagging the dog. (look it up if you need to) Then read the 144 page bill. Perhaps you will choose something else about which to be enraged.

carlitosway

The democrats used 'targets for Democratic gains' in 2004 on their map.

carlito-why should lies upset you?Obama lied through his teeth and continues to lie about his health care reform act-Oh I get it-lies are perfectly acceptable if they are uttered by liberals!

Many of you keep talking about the Koch Brothers. The Koch brothers will be rich today, tomorrow, and after that. Does it really matter that they contribute to poltics whenn unions also contribute millions to politicians?

Its like this for the unions.

I (unions) have a boss (liberal politicians), I (unions) give/donate/launder money to my boss (liberal polticians). In return, I (union) get a raise (paid benefits, pension, job security, big demands, locked into contracts despite having no money from my boss (liberal politicians).

Now is it clear why colelctive bargaining rightsd must be abolished?

"Steal a little and they throw you in jail
Steal a lot and they make you king"

"But in December 1999, the jury found that Koch Industries did steal oil from the public and lied about its purchases – 24 thousand times. The oil theft conviction was a heavy blow, but the troubles of Koch Industries don’t stop there. If the company was fattening its bottom line through theft – there is also evidence Koch was pinching pennies on safety and environmental protection - cutting costs with disastrous results."

WOW! Been reading up on the Koch Brothers! Tea party needs to read this! Koch Industries needs to be exposed!

"The trouble is a former employee says the brother who controls the company grew rich through fraud and theft, stealing from the taxpayers of the United States.

Unfortunately, for Koch Industries, that disgruntled former employee was Bill Koch, one of the Koch brothers. "

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/11/2...

Also, they inherited their wealth from their grandfather who built oil wells for Stalin in the Soviet Union. These trust fund babies haven't done a lick of real work in their lives! (Unless you consider scamming the taxpayers "work".)

"we need to call for the dictator to resign. Also investigate the corruption of walker by the Koch brothers.'

The only ones dictating this whole thing are hte runaway dumbocrats.

(This comment was thrown in a state power plant incinerator by the site staff)

'I don't know the law inside and out'

'I can guarantee you that the courts will not get involved and no legal steps will be taken'

gaurantee?? that IS contradictory to your 1st statement.

TO ALL He blatently lied as to the purpose of the BILL and in his own words admitted the real reasons for the QUICK SIGN need is to bust the Unions. It is not about the teachers and public workers paying more as the have agreed to do so IT IS ABOUT Scotty Koch-Walker Dictation the Wisconsin people and he will take down all of you that supoort his LIES and cover up using our Public workers as his SCAPE GOATS. Welcome to Kockonsin the State of dictatorship and a Government that only looks out for themselves. Please don't speak up for yourselves as in our State YOU DON'T have that RIGHT. This is everyone, once bully boy gets his way as he is not concerned about anyone as again He was only worried by planting trouble makers could backfire on him.End of story.

Gandalf-how well you can rationalize! Placards that suggest violence using guns is perfectly acceptable-Wow you continue to impress me!!I am glad however that you recognize the fact that all those liberals that are carrying signs are idiots-progress is being made!

Mouse......No, I don't know the law inside and out, but I'm not clueless enough to think that they are going to start prosecuting people for having a bad thought. To answer your question, I can guarantee you that the courts will not get involved and no legal steps will be taken. This doesn't contradict anything the Madison chief said--he simply said he was disturbed with the comments and they needed to be clarified......

I've read 'em all, spark. Now, regarding the article I posted, I've still got an open mind. Why don't you enlighten us all as to the "misleading" part of the headline? My takeaway is that state workers already have pension contributions deducted from their pay as part of their total salary/benefits package, and Walker is essentially now asking for a pay cut. Am I missing something?

Ive been arguing this for what 10 days now? Im giving up...No one has say agaisnt Walker and thats clear. Even other states are backing the unions and he still could care less...maybe I should just accept that we have turned into dictatorship

bebe53, there is no equivalency between an idiot with a stupid sign and a governor who admitted to considering violence against peaceful demonstrators.

actually bebe it was the supporters of walker that first use that bulleyes

Gandalf-hypocrisy again-reference to a Louisville Slugger is contemptible but walking around with placards that have the Gov. face in a bullseye with the slogan "Don't Retreat. Reload" is OK??? Wow I truly admire your situational ethics and morals! What a role model!

HL_Mencken, you are too funny! You accuse the peaceful protesters of thuggery, yet it's your governor who admits he thought about instigating trouble and proudly states he has a Louisville Slugger for a negotiating tool. You have a continually fading credibility, and your governor has a fading legitimacy.

Charger - One of the most misleading headlines I've ever read. Not entirely true. Read a majority of the posts below that article. Sheds some interesting light on the subject.

Charger ..... great article for those who can read and comprehend with some smarts.

countywrker94, I apologize for my improper implication.

916WI.... so you want to contradict the police chief in Madison now too.
Wow! you must know the law, inside out. I'm sure the chief just spoke to the media for attention. Keep um coming officer 916.

OK Tea-baggers. Explain this one to the rational thinking majority. I'll hang up now and wait for the incessant screeching to begin:
-
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/0...

kraut60 - There is something seriously wrong with you. Threatening peoples lives on a post is pretty stupid.
-
Kid - Thanks for the compliment.

916...i too am far from pro-union but im also not pro-take away someones right to negotiate with little or no debate. using gm as an example is not necessarily fair. they are probably the extreme side of greed. there are MANY unions who dont operate like that...is it fair to throw out the bushel cuz of a couple of bad apples??

spark. thats quite possibly the best post you have ever typed. bravo sir bravo.

we need to call for the dictator to resign. Also investigate the corruption of walker by the Koch brothers.

I hope Walker clears out the banked sick day program at the state. I'm sure this will save millions of dollars.

This has nothing to do with being a Democrat or Republican. It has to do with worker rights.

Amen Spark!

What I get a kick out of us how the unions are suddenly the WHOLE problem that Wisconsin has no money...fine maybe we are some problem and like I said I/we are willing to pay more, which some people are overlooking. We have already given up millions of dollars doesnt anybody see that? We are not being unreasonable but since most people dont follow facts and rely on gossip they have no clue.

Also, why dont we stop taking other countries crap and letting our gas prices go up to $3.50 a gallon when we have plenty last while we get that in shape. If you look at it, the raise of the gas prices started ALL of this. Higher food prices, higher vehicles, loss of sales shut down GM, etc. We are just to wimpy to tell Egypt or Libira or whomever is having a bad hair day "the heck with you, we will get our gas somewhere else!". If we had lower gas/utility prices we would be able to afford our health insurance premiums!

Who are all those very load people in the orange shirts?

And guess what the total of the state budget deficits for the US are for next year? $135 billion. So let Wall Street bail out the states!!!

I get a kick out of Democrats that throw temper tantrums when they don't get their way! Only when it is going the way they want is it for the good of the people! These same people fighting for the unions also think management is the reason why GM closed in Janesville. Better yet, it's George Bush's fault all this is happening. It's his fault for everything in life, isn't it? Because we all know the only good presidents are Democrats, right? *(JOKE)* It's time for me to get off this extremely liberal website for a while!

factsplease, I could not have written it better myself.

In 2010, total compensation and benefits at publicly traded Wall Street banks and securities firms hit a record of $135 billion, according to an analysis by The Wall Street Journal.
*
Why aren't they "sharing the pain"? Why do they get to cause the recession, get a tax payer funded bail-out and leave the rest of us to sacrifice? This is what we should be angry about...they let us "little people" fight amongst ourselves while they rob us blind! It isn't conservative vs. liberal, right vs left or Republicans vs Democrats, these are just distractions to keep us focused on fighting our neighbors so we won't notice that the top 1% has 70% of the wealth, and that the politicians are all either paid off or brainwashed by their propaganda machines called lobbyists. Wake up and smell the oligarchy!

Truecitizen, are you saying that those who want the rich to share our pain - don't earn their own money?

Welcome to America, where having two different parties means nothing more than divide and separate citizens further apart with constant complaint and no solutions. The Gazette posts are living proof and so is Madison. Left is guilty...right is guilty. And all along, nothing gets solved. Our Government is an embarrassment in many aspects from a local level to a national level. If they weren't, we wouldn't be in this mess. I don't care if you are Doyle, Walker, Bush or Obama. You have all screwed up in some shape or form and will never be able to do anything right by many. It's not my fault, it's your fault. But I inherited the deficit from you. But you added to it and didn't decrease it. Blah, blah, blah. They are all to blame, and if you think different, you are sorely mistaken and need a dose of reality. Stop hating your neighbor because they don't agree with your political bull***t!

Martin19
I guess this how you will feel in Nov 2012 when the Dems keep the White House!!!!!!!!!!

Way to go Wisconsin, while we were all arguing over the loss of union rights--which have functionally been gone for years thanks to revenue capping--we've totally ignored all the many other provisions of this bill and the power grab they represent.

At the cost of a mild blow to the income of public workers (which was welcome and sensible) and the loss of some functionally non-existent rights, we have granted our Governor the power to sell off public assets and reorganize our education and health care spending with almost no accountability.

With all these new powers he will no doubt be able to balance our next budget on the backs of the poor, but will we be able to do the same in 2013?

I'll wager his plan is to have moved on to greener pastures by then thanks to the national attention he is getting now. Breaking unions and drying up democratic campaign funding? That's sure to bring him a cabinet position if Obama doesn't get reelected. Someone else can worry about the next budget.

You do have to admire the evil genius of it all.

A friend of mine gave me this great look at things.

Do you want the cheapest teacher? Do you want the cheapest nurse? Do you want the cheapest employee at the DMV? Do you want the cheapest engineer for the DOT?

I see a looser association with the those shouting out at the "rich", without substance to their claims; then those who are shouting out at the "unions". Maybe you should earn your money in this system. The left wing politicians have just as many unobjective 'rich' guys pandering to them too.

NO and Bunbun...toooooo true! I was thinking the same thing. Especially about the selective headlines. In a court room, this dialogue (reporting) would be dismissed as 'leading'. Furthermore, this left leaning stance that the 'sky is falling' is only an example of how people are trying to sway the process-undemocratically! Get you butts back up here to Wisconsin and vote in a loosing effort or not--it is your job. You are only defending a special interest and with illegal tactics.

no says -- "Unions don't have "rights". They were privileges." ....and privileges belong only to the rich.

The dream police are coming to arrest me now, oh no ooooo.

Now they should tax all of those free loading business owners that prey on my tax dollors. I want a say on how and who might get it.
NOW

Mouse.......yeah--too funny! Prosecute people for thinking about doing something questionable? At least you're thinking outside of the box. We would need hundreds of new prisons(construction labor) and thousands of prison guards, police officers, court system employees(more union employees to protest the next time their "rights" are violated). Congratulations--you just solved the unemployment problem! Now--how do we pay for all of it.............hmmmmmm

the headline is part of the propaganda from the left. Gov worker union getting their power reduced now is supposed to equal private unions having no rights. I see nothing in this bill removing any rights from private sector unions.
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also you may want to note that public workers are covered by civil service laws so the idea that public sector workers will be some kind of slave is absurd.
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before any of you trogs post the lame "its only a first step-soon we will all be in chains" comment. I suggest seeing your doctor to adjust your meds.

Unions don't have "rights". They were privileges.

Further, governments don't hand out "rights". They can deny them, though.

Honestly, reporters, learn your civics. Editors, write better headlines.

SarahB1-this was put in place in 1978 by President Carter-federal employees are just like our public sector unions-all paod by tax dollars-and President Obama could try to change this for federal workers but doesn't care to-what does that tell you-when you done reading your liberally biased publications take a look at todays Wall Street Journal editorial sections-might understand better why a lot of people are pushing for the changes they are-especially in Wisconsin

RUSS F. come and save us from the evil DARTH WALKER. SOON PLEASE.WE NEED HELP!

It is not reasonable to think we are going to lose all of these things! I am fairly certain non-union workers get some vacation days too. And maybe we have been enjoying just a little too much at an overwhelming cost to the taxpayers, for just too long! As for your strifes, all I can say is you should work the problem and stick it out. Lots of people are broke. I wonder if cutting some of these costs would eventually help our communities actually properly staff these positions also? I mean, a little less bennefit, but more staffing. Currently, the municipal and county workers are consistantly reduced in staffing to the point of barely being able to manage their work areas. It is a huge and widely known issue. Where is the 'union' to help stop that? I think we should all be back on the same level playing field. Then we can get down to business. Unions will keep us from ever being objective. At least the way they have been in their collective battles.

Walker and the republicans are detroying our families, our communities, and our state. They won't raise taxes on the rich because that's re-ditributive socialism. They would much rather have the wage slaves take cuts in our wages and benefits so "everyone shares in the pain."

When are the police and courts going to follow upon his thoughts of causing trouble? Did see the police chief talking about it, what are the legal steps?
Any smart lawyer got an answer?

True Citizen: according to many we dont deserve anything other people get because we are not (real people), just county workers. For having to pay off almost $300 a month in student loans plus all of lifes other expenses, house, property taxes, etc. and my husband laid off, we barely make it. If we were both working fine it would be an ok wage. However, I have even been told on here that when/if the public employees are laid off we wont have rights to unemployment?!?! I guess we dont have vacation rights either,according to Gandalf.

Gandalf...What? Countyworker has off time too right?

Gandalf: I work second shift but thanks for worrying about it. Shouldnt you be at work instead of living off SSI or welfare?

The unfortunate thing here is that while many people will be affected, they will be unable to understand or be unbiased enough to see--that what is happening right now is probably necessary. As I stated, I just hope we are given direction so that we can move forward and adjust to it. I believe we all need to take a hit, or our beloved system will crash. That leaves us with more chaos. Democrats and unions are getting these bennies at an ever increasing cost, kind of like never paying off a credit card with high interest. Let us look forward and demand some kind of protection without this middle man called a union. By the way, $15/ hour is better than many, and you still would be paying less for your bennies than most. For real. My mother and father both make less than me and pay more for their medical and retirement. They have no employee protections either. Yet they do well.

countywrker94, if you're a county worker, shouldn't you be working instead of posting on here?

+1 Rich.......We have to give him credit for getting the first part of his name right too:)

True citizen: do you realize I have worked here only for about 6 months and came from private sector because of the benefits. I took a $4 an hour paycut to receive these benefits not Im left broke and no benefits sounds great. Do not think I cannot budget. I have two college degrees, One in ACCOUNTING. I am in my mid twenties, have TWO young children and laid off husband, reminding you again that I make $15 an hour not $22 like Walker is trying to portray.

Dick Tracy sounds like one of those tolerant loving liberals.

To all those who cry about rights - your hero Tim Cullen told me I do not have rights or needs because I am not a union member and do not receive taxpayer funded or tax exempt health insurance. As such he feels there is no need for him to represent me.

They knew him best:
"Milwaukee County not only turned out in larger numbers than some people expected - its 48% turnout rate was two points higher than 2006 - but it also delivered big margins for Barrett, the Milwaukee mayor who carried the county 62% to 38%."

countyworker94....I am too. But you are misdirected. How the hell does everyone else make it then? The non-union sector has to sink or swim, but we have it made. Perhaps you will have to budget like everyone else. I will take on the extra output for my bennies, to help out my taxpaying neighbor.
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I have only one complaint about what is happening right now in the state. We are not being given enough direct bullet style information about who, what, and exactly how it is going to affect people. Though I support these measures and I believe in the cause, I still think we should be given an understanding and direction coupled with guidance.
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Why do we need a bloated union to have fair treatment? I thought we were Americans, not a third world nation? If I am summarily removed from employment because I no longer have a union to protect me, I will still have options. But I think Walker and the rest of both parties at the state level should elaborate these things better.

Mouse: he didnt get one, thats the problem. His children wont be getting a very good one now either that Baby Hitler is in office.

Packersfan: you all act like they do this on a regular basis. They are FIGHTING for what MOST of us believe. That this is not right. Why should they come back if Walker is not willing to negotiate ANYTHING? Repub's and everyone else is just bitter because they were smart enough to do something like this. HItler and his crew have majority so no matter what is done or said, there is NO way we as democrats can stop this. I never considered myself either republican or democratic as I believe they both have good points and ideas but Walker just pushed me real quick to join democrats.

freedomfighter608
Feb 25, 2011 at 10:38 a.m.
Suggest removal
I am glad it passed. Can anyone tell us what a public union person produces or manufactures? I have my opinion of an answer, and that is that they produce or manufacture nothing.
You sound smart..... where did you get your education??????????
The engineer, the optician, the dentist, the doctor, the GM worker, the Ford worker........ freedomfighter608 ???????

http://www.ncsu.edu/mentorjunction/text_...

I'm glad the Assembly was able to pass this bill. At least the Assembly Democrats didn't follow in the footsteps of their Senate counterparts and leave the state because they didn't like the bill. That said, I do think the Assembly Demcrats were acting like sore losers after the bill passed. Calling the Assembly Republicans "cowards" was childish and uncalled for.
Now we just need the Democratic senators to stop hiding in Illinois like children and come back to Wisconsin and debate the bill if they want to. Maybe they will come back when their money runs out and have to come back to the Senate floor to pick up their paycheck. Why should we, the taxpayers, be paying for their childishness? I hope they aren't going to be like this every time a bill comes up that they don't like. Nothing will ever get voted on in the Senate if that happens. I'm ashamed of Senator Cullen. Grow up!

MissP...its sad. I know insurance is not cheap and I dont have a problem paying a portion of it, however, then we should be paid as well as everyone else. We dont get paid diddly because of all of our benefits. I have two small children and cannot afford this. My two checks a month after that price would leave me about $300...do they think we are actually going to show up to work for that? They might as well shut the government down. Also, private sectors cannot say they pay that much for insurance unless they are making $100,000+ a year because theres just no way people can afford that. I would also like people to know that our insurance is not that great. I still have a $75 deductible for urgent care, which I go a lot with 2 little children, a $25 doctor deductible as well as meds. We dont have it as great as you think. plus we pay the whole cost of our dental insurance every month AND vision. I only get about $150 per month into my pension as well. people are very MISINFORMED about how great we public employees have it.

MissP.......That would make sense--the majority of us in the private sector pay 100% into a 401K with a 3-5% employer match. It was a mistake that the states got involved in these crazy pension plans. Legacy costs are what killed large corporations in this country--we were naive to think that they wouldn't bankrupt the states as well. Adjust the wages to make them comparable to the private sector and leave it at that. The two should be competitive and allow crossover with one another........

I was given some information from a couple of state employees as to what is being heard around the capitol for the 2011-2013 budget that is supposed to be released on March 1.

What seems to be of most interest to everyone is the public employees. If what is being heard is correct, the state employees will be required to pay 100% of their retirement and health insurance benefits starting in 2013 at an average of $1500.00/mo. I'm sure the governor doesn't want anyone to know this before he strips bargaining rights away from public employees. (I wish someone from the Gazette would ask him if this is true)

It is reasonable that the public employees contribute 6% for their pension and 12% for their health insurance benefits but it is not reasonable to request they pay 100%. I can't imagine the governor would have received so much support from the public if he had mentioned the 100% right away.

But if this budget repair passes, and the public employees no longer have bargaining rights, they aren't going to be able to do anything about it. Many will barely be able to cover their benefits (if at all) much less pay their bills. A small cost of living raise that they can bargain for will not begin to cover these expenses. With state aid being cut, this will trickle down to county, municipal governments, and schools. Then it will hit the private sector because the public sector always has better benefits. This is one reason why the public employees are fighting so hard to keep their collective bargaining right and I applaud the Democratic Senators who are in Illinois. We cannot let this pass.

The governor might just as well send out lay-off notces because no one will be able to afford to work for the state.

Other things I saw mentioned for the 2011-2013 butget include loss of state aid to municipalities, $900 million in cuts to K-12, cuts to UW schoold expected to result in 26% tuition increase and loss of federal funds for public transit.

Legalize prostitution, gambling and pot that will help with the debt crisis : )

Kenny_powers regarding your question on Walkers tax cuts. "The (Wisconsin) governor has proposed tax giveaways to corporations."
Donna Brazile on Sunday, February 20th, 2011 in an interview on "This Week with Christiane Amanpour." Politifact rated this as mostly true. The tax breaks were given under the disguise of job creation. In reality, the tax benefits would only amount to .30 to $1.30 per each new job. I doubt if that is incentive enough to get companies to come to Wisconsin.
"Walker Promise Would Either Open Massive Loopholes or Apply to Virtually No Businesses"
http://www.onewisconsinnow.org/press/wal...

Hi Kenny, Walker made it known in his campaign and in his more current statements that this current budget would include no tax increases. If however he thinks he can jack fees up like Doyle did he will get a huge backlash from conservatives that see that as just another form of taxation. Walker has stated on numerous occasions that he seeks significant property tax relief and many believe this has been long needed in WI.

What about the state workers that won't be able to process your tax refund when they are on strike.

HAHA E_Burke! Im glad there are at least some people that arent as ignorant as Freedom_fighter

Thekid3477....I am anything but pro-union. Unions have become a shadow of their former selves--they have evolved into a machine that revolves around greed and corruption. Look at what happened with the GM "bankruptcy". Obama's reorganization of that company left thousands of people who had invested their savings in GM stocks and bonds with absolutely nothing, while the UAW walked away with a huge ownership stake in the company worth billions. That was disgusting and a testament to how corrupt and powerful unions have become. As far as Walker's connection to Koch and it's effect on these power plants--that needs to be explained. I would hope that the media and the democrats hammer him on this issue and bring everything relating to how and why he's doing that to light. The prank call honestly surprised me. All week we were inundated with stories that these two were "plotting to take over Wisconsin" and "in bed together"--from the conversation it didn't sound like that strong or intimate of a relationship at all......Time will tell though--and it's definitely something that Walker will have to address.......

Sounds like his M.O., but WHY a foreign-based company when there are locally owned security firms in Milwaukee?

"For the record, the County Board never approved the contract with Wackenhut. In fact, we voted against outsourcing security during the 2010 budget process last fall. Instead, the County Executive ignored the policy-making legislative branch and unilaterally entered into this contract. During this morning’s Finance & Audit Committee meeting, we learned that the 2010 savings from this contract will be $125,000, 42% lower than expected. The County Executive’s initial savings estimates last year were nearly $700,000."
http://www.greenbayprogressive.com/progr...

Seriously freedomfighter? I produce your WELFARE benefits that you receive every month. Dont think we dont pay taxes either?!? We deal with the scum of the earth on a daily basis, why dont you show up here and try it? Try to get to work in a snow storm when all the union workers refuse to plow your road or drive to work in that car that GM union employees refuse to make. Or better yet, send your kid to school for an education when theres no teacher there to teach. I cant believe you asked that question. One more option, let me rob your house and when you call 911, there will be no one there to answer your call! Or when you have heartattack, good luck getting a paramedic.

It's a great day for Wisconsin. The MAJORITY won.
And the democrats have badly overplayed their hand.
GO Governor Walker!

HL_Menchkin...I'm sorry but when rights of anyone are taken away is is it is the corosion of freedom. Who decides which group loses rights? I'm sure if this affected you and your rights, you'd be singing a different song. Actually it will affect your rights, maybe not directly, but when rights are taken away from some, they are taken away from all.

THANK YOU TAMRLU! I was laid off from my previous job but instead of sit home and cry about it, I got a job 2 months later for the COUNTY! Its the same as me walking around crying about how much doctors make...well if I dont like it I should be a doctor! No one said that we are special or better we just TRY. I have a laid off husband and two YOUNG children. I only make $15 per hour working for the county..We are not rich by NO Means. Maybe some of you against us should take that into consideration. I have two college degrees, student loans, etc. WHEN walker decideds to take my benefits away, I will go apply for your job and take that away because you all seem to be so damned ignorant they will be begging to have us "over privilaged" county/state workers that show up to work EVERYDAY.

I am glad it passed. Can anyone tell us what a public union person produces or manufactures? I have my opinion of an answer, and that is that they produce or manufacture nothing.

Regardless of which side of the political fence you sit on; I hope everyone realizes how bad this bill is going to be for the, already anemic, local economy. GM closing was a huge hit. Now go ahead and add the number of local union employees that will have “X” amount of dollars going into their pensions and insurance. Realize that “X” was discretionary income that was mainly going into the local economy.
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As a private sector employee I realize this. It’s not a pleasant thought.
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Has Walker made any announcements about lowering taxes following this bill passing? (not sarcasm, I honestly don’t know) It would be a little more reassuring if he has.
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I have yet to chime in on any of the discussions regarding this bill, mainly because 90% of the people posting make ridiculous statements that only the mentally ill could relate to. Comparing Walker to Hitler is a ludicrous. Finding parallels to the protests in Madison to those in Egypt make me scratch my head. Claiming that teachers are greedy and overpaid is pretty narrow-minded as well. I don’t know a single teach that has ever entered the profession because they want to make money. They go into teaching mostly because one of their teachers growing up likely inspired them to follow the same path. The benefits are really the only thing that would make a sane person want to teach. As with most jobs; a person that has been employed for 20-30 will make substantially more than a newer employee with the same organization. It’s common sense.
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Rather than attack a group of people (your neighbor, a close friend, or family member) because they lean to the left, or to the right; take a step back and look at the reality of the situation. The economy in Janesville is in for another huge hit to. The light is still at the end of the tunnel, but it just got smaller. It will eventually get bigger, but not in the near future.

A lot of problems would be solved if people stop having kids they can't take care or or don't want to parent. If you don't want to disipline your kids, don't have them! It all starts at home.

thank you talktalk! I work for the county and all these "POOR" souls with no money come in here in BabyPhat clothes, hair done, nails done, better shoes than me and I WORK everyday. This country makes it tooo easy on those that chose to not participate. They are the ones costing us the money.

I keep reading about the wonderful state jobs, the cadillac benefits, they're wealthy, 100s will stand in line, yada yada. Question I have is why no one has shown up at a single prison for an application? Just walk in and get one. They're open 24/7/365. They gave what was asked, and want to be able to say that 100% insurance payment isn't what they want. You have that ability in your job. That's what they're asking for. Some respect. The contracts have not been lucrative for the last 4 years. Pay freezes, more payment percentage for insurance, furloughs and the pay decrease from them, and other concessions. They have given for 4 years. They conceded financially. Blood? Pound of flesh? What more is wanted? Da*n them all for having a family to care for. Many state, county and local workers do have an unemployed spouse or partner- no one is excluded from that ugly reality. Seems there will be more unemployed for everyone to pay for.

thekid: Its not really that ignorant. The cost would be high initially but the savings of all the benefits taken away from the crack heads benefits would be tremendous....Its sad for the children but is a life with a drug addicted parent selling his foodstamps for drugs any betteR? Probably not. This country/state is so jacked up it will never be right. Maybe we should take some lessons from Canada and get gov. health care that would stop tons of probs. Also, quit paying over $100 per barrel of gas when we can get it elsewhere. Why have we become such wimps?

THE KID-The point is, why is it ok tax payers pay for these people to NOT work, smoke, drink, procreate, tattoos, french manicures, piercings, should I go on? Let's continue to take care of them, while I go to work everyday from 8-5 for the last 13 years and no have no say in anything. Any 12 year old would be smart enough to figure out something is wrong with THAT.

I am sorry mouse...the first impression of you, says it all.

Ya, move somewhere warmer. At least then you will be looking at better scenery when you are getting screwed over. Wisconsin - the next Michigan.

Are you ready to live under "WALKERNISUM"? good luck educators, and educated students..... take your knowledge to a better place.

ughhhh....

truth1 why would you have go and show your lack of intelligence by posting something as silly as

'There needs to be random drug testing to get ANY type of public assistance'

ok. i wont get all riled up ill just ask a few questions...that a 12 year old could come up with. are you talking about testing for legal or illegal drugs?? do you know how much a drug test costs?? do you know how many people in the state of wi recieve state aid?? can you multiply those two numbers togethor?? who is going to pay for that??(i thought we were broke??) and be honest...which drug do you think is abused more by those who receive state aid?? alcohol or all other drugs combined??

I got the text at 1:45a.m. I couldn't sleep after that. I have a knot in my stomach as well. Regardless of the side you are on, life as we know it is going to be different.

I have a question. Why did Walker hire an OVERSEAS company to do Milwaukee county security when he illegally fired the union workers? Now the money that they wasted will be going to England and not Milwaukee county. Why?

thanx for the comment 916...i wont assume yer completely naive in thinking that the 'koch' convo did anything more than solidify walkers TRUE intent;)

"For Wisconsin’s Democratic state senators, it’s simply bad business to offend labor unions.

Thirteen of the fourteen have received generous contributions from unions over the years; their cumulative donations range from $5,750 to $113,603. And anything less than, well, fleeing the state in order to prevent Gov. Scott Walker’s public-union-busting bill from passing could threaten those vital cash flows" (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/2...)

Today was, so far, the darkest day in Wisconsin history. My forefathers have fought in every war that America has had to fight to win us the freedoms that us, as American citizens, deserve only to have a bunch of Republicans strip it away. If it weren't for these so-called evil unions, America's working class would still be working twelve hour days, seven days a week. The only day off people would get would be every three weeks on Sunday. Working conditions before unions were dangerous. Many people died in terrible accidents. Working class citizens were thought of as a renewable resource. If one worker died, they would just find another one. More often than not, the familes of the killed worker would never see the body of their loved one. It is sad. I live in Wisconsin for a reason. I want to raise my future children here; I want to give back to the state that has always given so much for me, but I feel like now I have no choice but to move so that my future children will have a future they can look forward to. I bet if Governer La Follette could see our great state now, he would be very disappointed in the direction we are going. Wisconsin's motto is "Forward" so why are we going backwards? The 14 heroes in Illionis are sticking up for the people that are not being heard by Walker and the Republicans. Isn't that a Senator's job? The Democrats were elected to be the voice of the Democratic people, and the Democrats of Wisconsin are not being heard. Walker needs to tell everyone what he wants now. I am ashamed of him. I am ashamed of Palin and her Tea Party.

I would like take this opportunity to thank the 14 heroes in Illinois for being the voice of the people who are not being heard. I am proud that I am a Democrat. I am proud of my brother who is a Republican and is against this bill. I am sorry that one of the 14 Democrats could not spend his birthday with his family because he was speaking for me, for my family, and for all the people who want the rights of which Walker is going to rob from us.

Health care isn't about removing RIGHTS. Rights that people, yes, have DIED for.
Just b/c someone shoved one bill down people's throats does not justify someone else doing it. If Republicans thought Obama's tactic was shameful, why are they engaging in it themselves. Doesn't ANYONE have any integrity left anymore? We are only beginning to see the worst side of ourselves. "Everything I need to know I learned in kindergarten." I don't recall vengeance and being a copy-cat being taught in kindergarten!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0oa9Ttk7...

Last of 3 posts on power plant portion of bill. There is precedent for possible shenanigans with a state power plant sale. In 2006, two employees at a Green Bay utility were questioned whose executives held a fundraiser for then Gov. Doyle the day before the state made an initial decision on the $191.5 million sale of the Kewaunee nuclear power plant owned in part by that utility. Walker must know he'll be watched VERY closely on the buyer of any plants, if the plants actually sell.

Madison Gas & Electric would be a possible bidder. They already own or are part owners of Wisconsin power plants.
http://www.mge.com/about/powerplants/
Like privatizing any public service, it's done to save money and help budgets. The sale would add about $200 million to the budget adjustment plus column. Taxpayers would also avoid very costly and difficult fitting of scrubbers and other clean air retrofitting. Last year, the Environmental Protection Agency began an investigation to determine whether plants across the state at UW campuses and prisons were operating in violation of the Clean Air Act.

You know what is crazy about this is imagine if last year when the Democrats were forcing the healthcare bill down our throats even though most of the country was saying no, just imagine had the Republicans fled the country to stop the vote? This is the problem, Democrats have every right to protest but the Republicans have the votes to pass the bill, just like the Democrats had the votes last year to pass the healthcare bill. There is no difference in the situation, just that the Democrats run from the issues if they don't get their way! Come home and do your job for which my tax dollars are paying for. I'm sure the unions are paying for all their expenses and are probably even giving them money under the table for their families since they are no longer getting paychecks. I'd be willing to bet none of that money will be showing up on their taxes next year. Typical Democrats, "Do as I say and not as I do" or should I say "Democracy is great as long as it goes my way"! Childish, Pure Childish!

On selling the power plants.. the way it was explained to me, there are so few companies who would be capable of purchasing them and effectively handling the complexity of operating them, the department wants the flexibility to sell to a capable buyer, not just the winning bidder. While a power plant sale will provide cost savings, they need to be operated very professionally and they can't have an amateur bid from Powerplants'rus win it. A review of sale was included in the joint finance version that requires the joint finance committee to review the deal before it is done.

Isn't it about time that President Obama also stop busing in all the people from out of state through his political group Organizind for America??? Leave us alone-

tamrlu.SarahB1,etal-
Fact-there are over 2 million federal employees in Washington,D.C. that CANNOT bargain for wages or benefits
Fact-Federal employees CANNOT be forced to join a union and CANNOT be forced to pay union dues
So the question is-If this is all OK for our President why do the taxpaying citizens of the State of Wisconsin deserve to be held hostage by the unions??? What hypocrites you all are!!!

Last Friday afternoon I was waiting in Knilans office to speak with him re. my various concerns about the bill. I was MORTIFIED to hear him say to a group of distraught teachers and police officer, "Enjoy your rally". Like it was a party! These people had real tears in their eyes and were obviously very stressed. How snide, uncaring, unprofessional, and downright arrogant of him! He will certainly not have my vote again. Enjoy your one term Joe. Watch out for your conscience some day.

Wisconsin students need to learn six new words.
Do you want fries with that?

Everyone needs to think about this next election and remove EVAN, AMY, and JOE from office. They have not listen to the people and at every listening hearing they have to be reminded them of that. Joe have already said he does not care about workers to friends of mine when that went to Madison to talk. He won't even let him the office. Thanks JOE YOU GOT TO GO.

Absolutely, realist. I see the governor creating a crisis situation so that he can pass a bill that massively destroys state government and statewide local finances, all to destroy the unions he obviously hates. That is very, very wrong.

The governor has said that if the bill does not pass by Friday, the state will miss a deadline to refinance $165 million of debt and will be forced to start issuing layoff notices next week.
And if the bill does pass the schools will be issuing layoffs next week for thousands of teachers. You people don't see something wrong with this?

HL_Mencken, really thuggery? I hope you will never have a need for state health care or that your family is not living in Wisconsin. There were hundreds of other options we could have looked at. This does not create freedom, unless you have full faith that our King Walker has the brains to lead this mess into bliss. Since he couldn't finish college my hopes are VERY low.

Even if this bill does save the state money, which I don't think it will, do you really think it is going back to the tax payer? No the money will go to create tax breaks for the rich. They will pocket the money and continue raising their prices. Thus, keeping the middle class supressed and more dependent on them.

Stubby, great point about the pension. I would be very unsettled if the "state" got to control my money. I still haven't seen any great points to why this bill is so great to the average Wisconsin worker. No taxes are cut, education and public services will be cut and big business who have done nothing to create jobs since billion dollar bailouts, gets yet more money in the CEO and shareholders pockets. And people cry freedom? Billions of state revenue is lost in this bill. Billions. That means more cuts later on and it will get worse after that!

Goodbye middle class, hello McJobs

Since a lot of my money is going to pay for tax breaks for big buinesses, shouldn't I say how they are run too? I don't want unions anywhere. That's what will happen next. Bye bye worker's rights!

This is further evidence that Walker and the Republicans are leading the state in a race to the bottom, all while serving their out-of-state puppet masters. All wage earners, public and private, union and non-union, will continue to be victimized by the entrenched minority interests of wealth who are the only ones benifitting from the divide and conquer strategy that is so apparent. Continued protests, civil disobedience, and recall drives are the only remaining courses of action for the people. There is nothing conservative about this current crop of Republicans. They are radicals and mere shadows of Republicans past. As a supporter of Republicans in the past, I can clearly state that I will never support a Republican again unless they redeem themselves through sensible policy.

ATTENTION Joe Knilens. It is hard to believe that someone who worked at the GM plant would actually vote to take someones collective bargining away. If he is this stupid, someone must have been giving him a ride to work, because he couldn't have found the plant on his own. Their is another election coming. GOODBYEEEEEE

Freedom is coming. Take away bargaining rights. Am I the only one who sees something contradictory here?

Can anyone say RECALL!

Now we need to start on another thing that SORELY needs attention........At most places you need to be drug tested to be employed....There needs to be random drug testing to get ANY type of public assistance.

Yes, let's thank all the republicans, shall we? Thank you for taking away benefits that have been duly earned by employees. Employers offer benefits, that is why people take the jobs. Let's thank them too for continuing to support everyone getting state aid, also. The people that have and continue to have children they can't take care of, but buy cigarettes, get tattoos, etc etc. How about enforcing drug tests for them? How about having them show proof of how they spend MY money, as THEIR benefit. Why should tax payers continue to pay for these people?

Just a note that was recently brought to my attention. For those of us who work in private industry, we are used to our pension contributions being voluntary. We can decide in what to invest, and how much. Public employees are REQUIRED to contribute and have NO OPTIONS in how to invest that money. The State Retirement Board does that for them. That fact put a whole new light on why the state paid those contributions in the past. Imagine if you employer said you MUST invest 6% of your salary in a plan over which you had no control. Yeah....now I'm starting to get it.

"includes" - hate typos!

Also, just because people keep saying union members are greedy thugs and goons doesn't make it true. Nearly 60% of the unionized public sector employees have at least one college degree. Far outranks the private sector population of WI. Private unions are protesting as they should be; they will be next on the chopping block; and then the rest of us. If you think your taxes won't go up with Walker at the helm, think again. He will simply PASS the taxing on to the local districts. Everyone will be taxed - and that includede union workers who are taxpayers too!

916WI- Thats EXACTLY it.

Chip away at the middle class and we will be like Southern states where there is the greatest discrepancy between the incomes of the wealthy and the poor. And we will ALL be "the poor". Chip away at funding public education - the great equalizer and see what happens to test scores and the quality of education, regardless of a test score. And remember, YOU will have ASKED for it.

The article says the Republicans open and closed the voting opportunity in seconds before all of the voting was completed. How un-American can you get! They new they had the votes to pass the bill but by not allowing all dissenting votes to be cast and counted, they show how unreasonable and petty their actions really are.

916WI, your are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts. The public sector unions are not supported by taxpayer dollars, they are supported by hard working public employees paying dues out of their wages just like the private sector unions are supported. Public sector employees pay taxes just as you and I do. Apparently, you do not understand the concept of collective bargaining. The healthcare and pension benefits were subject to negotiations. The public sector unions accepted smaller pay raises in exchange for the better benefits. That is the way collective bargaining works. The unions are the ones who have taken a big step forward in this debate by agreeing to accept Governor Walkers benefit cuts. Governor Walker is the one being unreasonable.

All of you who work for a living and and are not one of the wealthy and agree with what Walker and the republicans are doing better watch out. Because if this passes and becomes law you will be next. It will become open season on workers in all businesses. If they can do it this easily by passing these types of laws and suck so many normal people into agreeing with it, it will only be a matter of time before they start passing laws to start pushing everyone toward a 3rd world standard of living. People are so disgusted with what has happened in this country that they are looking for change no matter what the consequences. Instead of bad mouthing the unions and people who have it better then you, maybe you ought to be asking yourselves why you don't have the same thing. For the last 25 years or so every time someone had the nerve to ask for better pay and conditions for themselves collectively, the company has moved overseas and the people lost their jobs and our elected officials from both parties have allowed this to happen. We are going after the wrong people, when the true source of the problem has been our own elected officials. They work for the highest bidder now instead of you and I. They allowed this to happen because they are the heads of those companies and part of the super rich and by going along with these things they make themselves richer while you and I see our standard of living go backwards. All the politicians do the same thing, they tell you what you want to hear so they can get elected. Did you ever think that if all employers would pay their employees a better wage like union people enjoy it would take care alot of the budget shortfalls, because everyone would be paying more taxes? Did you ever look at when the falling revenue starting happening? I think if you did you would see it started about the same time that employers were allowed to send all of the manufacturing jobs overseas and peoples incomes started falling. Don't use the line that union labor drives the cost of goods higher either, because if you take the auto industry as an example, the labor cost at a union shop including benefits accounts for less then 5% of the total price of the vehicle and if labor were truly the problem, how come a car built in Mexico using non union labor costs the same? It is not labor, it is the greed of the people at the top that does it. Yeah it is their company and I do not have a problem with them making money, because if they don't neither do you or I. but what happened to making it better for your kids and Grandkids? I think we should kick every last one of our elected officials out of office and start from scratch. Send them all a message about who they are supposed to work for. Quit buying products that are made by a company that shipped their work overseas in search of larger profits. If we all did these things, they would have to start changing things to make it better for all of us and not just themselves.

Just a quick note as I am leaving to do volunteer work (no I will not be protesting). The news just showed an attempted interview with some of Tim Cullen's Senate cohorts in Illinois. They wouldn't talk and drove of in their NON UNION MAZDA. Sorry UAW people - you were dooped by your union bosses and by Mr Cullen and his friends.

Parker -- No I dont cheer for the house. But also dont expect the floor sweeper to retire at 50, with a full pension, income that exceeds his average wage by 20%, time and 1/2 for a coffee spill on Sat (its still his job), and free healthcare covered by a $50 chip from my table.

Parker72 - here are a few items. I want to see government live within it's means just like I do. I don't like a system where one side controls both sides of the bargaining table. I wish for a world where the teachers in our family are not threatened with retaliation if they dare to utter a disagreement with the union. I could go on and on but you would get bored and start calling me names. Actually, I want nolthing for myself - we are blessed. I simply want a better future for all with opportunity for all in Wisconsin - not just Tim Cullen's friends.

A friend of mine posted this on facebook and I would like to share it with everyone...

Just out of curiosity, for those of you who support Walkers bill, what is it exactly that you expect to gain personally? Unless you're extremely eager to see the already uber wealthy become filthy rich, I just don't understand where you come out on this issue....? Do you go to casinos and cheer for the house?!

Let me see - the unions all agreed to the financial request by Walker. Hhhmm - I just don't recall seeing any local government unions volunteering to reopen contracts to make the adjustment. What I see around the state are unions and their school board and municipal union puppets signing contracts at the last minute to extend the gravy train paid for by the taxpayers. They do not put their money where there mouths are and continue to control the Tim Cullen's of the world. The system is obviously broken when one side controls both sides of the so called bargaining table.

thekid3477........I agree with you on this one kid. Walker does need to give an explanation as to what his specific objectives are with the power plants. This should have been broken out and discussed separately from the issues regarding the union issues. He also needs to offer some specifics on his plans with the state welfare programs.........

Many of us been against public employee unions well before we had ever heard of Scott Walker. I have no problem with unions in the private sector--if they are efficient and cost effective to the point where they can compete with non-union labor then more power to them. What I can not support are unions which are completely funded by taxpayer dollars. What you end up with is exactly what we have here. Both sides of those involved in the contracts heavily influenced by the unions and a pile of taxpayer money in between them. Does anyone else not see the conflict of interest here? Where were the checks and balances when these insane benefit and pension packages were promised to these employees?

And to think our forfather fought & died to give us freedom & some want to take it away.

im w ataxpayer2....WHY NO BIDS ON STATE OWNED POWER PLANTS?? i thought repubs were about free market?? wouldnt free market dictate the largest revenue by opening the sale/lease up for bids??

I read a lot on these blogs that make it sound like the Koch brothers are evil. People should check out David Koch on Wikipedia. Sounds like a fine person to me!
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Ko...

Jasper- they gave him what he wanted. Get over that aspect. This is firmly in the governor's court. Two words have stopped all of the bill, which is stupid on the gov's part. Two words have created the turmoil, it will not be voted on, and he then loses everything else in the bill. His power grab is in the balance. Two words give him everything else. If he would compromise, give in to those two words- sunset it until 2013. The entire state benefits if it doesn't pass- even the taxpayers that agreed with his demands.

I guess only 11% of the state population demands that they don't have to feel the bad economy. But the rest of us do.

And they still are stunned that the GOP has a majority in this state.

WAKE UP!

Start a recall of Walker. He is a disgrace to democrcay in my opinion. Get him out. He can go work for the Koch brothers, or does he already?

Out natural bird is know as the Eagle, our Wisconsin State bird is the Robin which will not change to the Vulture to represent our government.

The rich get richer. ANYONE that works for a paycheck will be forced to live on less. The race to the bottom has begun thanks to walker and his assembly puppets. I didn't notice in this bill when the koch bros. start to pay. To all of you walker supporters, please drink the kool-aid.

How I wish hyperbole could be monetized. I could make a fortune off of this thread alone.

This is just the first step folks. Everyone has commented about the unions once again. Check your state constitution- collective bargaining is a right in WI. How is returning the millions to the feds that this bill will cause going to balance the budget? Everyone yells about I'm a taxpayer. So are the friends and neighbors you so easily slam. The most skewed ideologies in the blogs here cannot see the nose being cut off to spite the face. You should worry more about the rest of the bill. That is what will affect everyone- from newborn to the oldest of us. The idea of we won so we're going to do what we want with no consideration of anything other than that is sad. I don't want to hear about the president- this is about Wisconsin and the people that our government are supposed to represent. IMO, recall papers should be started on the Representatives that gave no measure to the opinions of their constituents. All citizens of this state should be listened to and if need be, some compromises made. This shows that the agenda will be followed no matter what. The inflexibility is crass. I'm neither republican or democrat, but I am a citizen of WI and I think dirty actions are dirty actions- doesn't matter who does it. Two wrongs do not make a right. Sounds like people need time out in the corner. Not only the lawmakers, but everyone spewing the hate and anger. The division in the tax base is what has happened, and what was wanted. Sad really.

This is a another wake-up call. Republicans carried out a war against the working class unemployed. Now they're going after the working class employed. What will it take for 90% of population to figure out there's a war on - and you're losing.

Why is a filibuster by the Democrats a problem and hundreds of filibusters by the US Senate Republicans not? They both are parliamentary processes that are used by everyone. However, rushing the vote (I was there), which was open for less than 3 seconds, does not seem to be very democratic. Further, there is more to this bill that needs to be examined. A few provisions of this bill that should be scrutinized are:

What will happen to Badger Care (Medicaid) when the Executive branch has full control of membership requirements?

If we are in a budget crisis, why are we selling our state-owned power plants without bidding them out? Remember the state will still need to buy back the power.

Why is discrimination on the job based on sexual orientation explicitly allowed in this bill?

Why are non-budgetary items like the dismantling of public unions so important when the financial concessions were already accepted by all parties?

Obviously, WI is a big money state supporting Republicans? This continues to send the message of "Screw the commoner!"

To not allow a vote is to stifle democracy and should be illegal.
The democrats were playing games. If this happened on every vote that you didn't agree with nothing would ever get passed. If you believe in democracy you cant agree with these childish democrats.
And by the way when this passes the state unions will still have more bargaining rights than the federal unions, which can not collectively bargain. If this was such a slam on peoples rights where are the people protesting for the federal workers rights.
President Obama has been in office for 2 years and hasn't done anything to address it. I guess he agrees with Walker, that you can't effectively govern, and represent the taxpayers when you have to deal with unions.

Can someone please explain to me, how does this not just put us back where we were when it was in the Senate?

It now still needs one Dem to show up in the Senate which we know they won't. So was that 59 hours of BS for no reason? Arrrg I wish reporters would be a little more explanatory.

The major problem I see here is GOVERNMENT.
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If employees of non-union places of business acted this way they would be terminated and replaced. (As they should be)
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Grow up and discuss the issues at hand.
Pathetic on both sides.

Thank you GOP Assembly. You gave the opposition 2 days of rebuttal. More than they would have givin you if te tables were turned.

Eveything is fine in my back yard this morning.

Well, this is expected. It would figure that the Republicans would employ some legislative tricks to get what they wanted. I find it pathetic that none of the Republicans made changes to this bill, even after the outcry of thousands of citizens in Madison. Despite what Walker says the majority of people in the capital are from Wisconsin. These Republicans just stick together no matter what. They just don't seem have the ability to think for themselves or to represent the people of their districts. They just get in line and do what they are told. I hope people don't forget and vote these simpletons out of office next election. This will not fix the budget, period. I am afraid to see what Wisconsin looks like a year from now. No unions, lower wages, worse education, worse benefits, higher costs for public colleges, roads not repaired, a continued public debt, more people looking for government assistance for basic necessities (help that this heartless and morally vacant Governor will not offer). This is sad because of the history that it discards, the sacrifice and lives that were lost to give people the basic freedom to organize and have a voice. Taxpayers will find that this doesn't put money in their pockets, doesn't create jobs and doesn't help Wisconsin.

The only bizarre actions in the assembly were the refusal of the speaker to allow a recess, and the 15-second voting window. The attempt at filibuster was quite normal - a common tactic for both parties.

Just saw the story of the vote on the local news. What a bunch of sore losers. All the Dems standing up in their pretty orange shirts hollering shame, shame at the Republicans as they left the chambers. It actually was kinda hilarious. Proud to be a Republican !!!

It doesn't seem right how they did it. Makes a person wonder how it really went. Unfortunately, by nobody's fault, all of the media takes their own angle on all political matters. It's not just this situation, it's everything in how the media gives only one angle.

Finally the bizarre actions by the Democrats in the Assembly are over. I watched much of this on WisconsinEYE and they were way beyond reasonable in their "debate"?. When Rep. Hulsey (D)Madison said Wisconsin was becoming the laughing stock of the nation, he was right, but not because taxpayers rights were being returned, it is because of their endless ranting and chanting. Hopefully the "Clock Tower 14" will return and finish what needs to be done.
Most media accounts say the the unions are being stripped of power with this bill. I say "some" power is being returned to the taxpayers.