http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-26...

Westorbust: Obviously you are a staunch supporter of Obama. When he was a Senator, what was his vote on raising the debt ceiling when Bush was president? Oh yea, he voted...NO! Now that he has spent like no other president and produced nothing for all the dollars he has thrown away, now he wants to raise the debt ceiling. Hasn't this clown spent enough?

Chart that every GOP politician should possess and refer to often during the debt ceiling debate.

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/0...

Lets count how many Nopublican Senators voted to raise the debt ceiling in years past, shall we?
1997: 55
2002: 31
2003: 50
2004: 50
2006: 51
2007: 26
2008: 34
2008: 33

Obama was elected, and we get:

2009: 2
2009: 1
2010: 0

Curious, no?

Americanproducts: Always easier to blame someone else, isn't it? How much more time do you plan on giving this clown and his circus performers before you close down the show? Even the talk show hosts and commentators have stopped blaming GWB and have placed the blame on the shoulders of the person that not only owns it, but has made it much worse...Obama.
Why is it so difficult for you to admit that this guy is a complete flop as the leader of our country. He has repeatedly shown his inability to understand the complexities of the economy along with the moral fiber of this great country. As they say...To get rid of the problem, you need to get rid of the source of the problem. With elections coming soon, hopefully people have seen that we need new leadership.

This sums up the "blame Bush" argument...
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Regarding blaming Bush. Follow me on this....
The Detroit Lions recently went 0-16, a winless season.(2008)A new coach was hired in 2009, the team went 2-14; then 2010 they went 6-10.After 2 years (similar to Obama) the new head coach has a record of 8-24. Do you blame him? Should he be fired?

,
,
Obama took over an 0-16 economy...it still stinks at 6-10, and YES, it is OK to blame the PREVIOUS "COACH"!
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Not completely relevant...but the economy, GW's role and republicans crying about GW being blamed makes this anology work.

one day...you are right, there are over 200 unions and other organizations who have been given exemptions from the program, at least for now. The more you read about the program (and the more we learn about it as Pelosi said "pass it so we can see what's in it") it is scary.

That's why any real economist will always measure a debt and deficit as a %age of GDP. As a deficit can be a in the billions, and sound huge, but if the economy is growing; and GDP is very high, and the deficit is a very small %age of GDP, it's often not a very big concern. The obvious concern now is that annual deficits are becoming a larger and lager %age of GDP, and the over all debt (run up under both parties) is all ready near 100% of GDP (annual GDP is in the 15-16 trillion area, and the national debt is over 14 trillion). When you get past 100%, your economy is almost certain to be crippled to very little growth; as the burdens to service that debt become overwhelming. This is all ready starting to happen in many countries in Europe. Countries like Greece, Italy, Portugal, Ireland, Spain are well past the 100% debt-GDP, and all their economies are in the tank, and are now begging for the stronger countries of the EU to bail them out. When it becomes real bad here, we won't have anyone to bail us out. We'll simply do what we are doing now, to a much larger extent. That is the FOMC will monetize the debt. Simply create the $$ from thin air to pay it off. See the dirty secret is the fed has all power in this. They can pay off all $14 point whatever trillion tomorrow if they like. Just simply add that to their balance sheet. That is all they are doing now with QE1, QE2, and soon 3-4-5-6-7......Of course doing this is simply a tax on EVERYONE, as it will ultimately devalue the dollar, and your purchasing power. That is the grand plan here. You simply tax by inflation. That way all the politicians can say: "we held the line on your taxes" while Joe citizen gets screwed by a tax in everything they buy from food to gas to utilities going up way faster then he-she is making in income growth.

All this bithching over what the government did or did not do, and the fact is, none of you people have any idea what your government is doing right now. Most of you don't even know that your government is your statte at best. That is the way it is. But you think that it is the federal government because that is what you were taught. You are wrong. Your government starts with you, and goes to your state. You let the federals into your lives and now you want everything from them adn let your families go thinking that they will think different and fix it but no they won't. They will do what you do and that is where you need to change it. You want change then start with your family and your life. We don't think like you do down south. Why are you all so unhappy here? I think I know but do you?

oneday - perhaps you should look at the date of what you read. your data is from a 2010 fact check article.
from 2011->"A recent Government Accountability Office analysis of the waiver program .. found that waivers went to applicants with projected premium increases of 10 percent or more.

The study said that HHS had received more than 1,400 waiver applications and had approved 95 percent of them. Most went to businesses.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/06/22/11...

You people are really wierd. Our country is suffering because of the incompetence of what we call elected officials, and all you can do is pretend that you are economists. You don't have to be an economist to see that what we have now is not working, and I certainly don't think that economists should be arguing about it, they should be presenting solutions, but they don't, because there is not enough money in it for them I am guessing.

Gandalf said: They simply lied to America then, and they continue the lie today, successfully, I might add, due to the ignorance of the general public to the complex issue of public debt.
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And what makes you think that Democrats don't lie? Ignorance? Hey, this isn't football, it's a future for our children, and the sooner you realize that, the better it will be for them. Or you can keep playing sports in your own minds, and screw them because you really only care for yourself. The question really is, can we elect people who will do the right thing?

Gandalf as the economy grew (GDP) so did revenues to the national government, despite this and the high tax rates the debt number was still increased. I agree manageable debt, in relation to GDP, is much less of an issue than than the size of the debt in comparison to today; where it is closing in on 100% of the GDP.

The whole point has been spending. Regardless of tax rates, increases in GDP, or other reasons the nations debt has continued to climb every year over the last half century. The idea that raising taxes will reduce the debt now is unsupported based on the history of political actions with our nations resources. Until restraint is practiced no matter the tax levels nothing will change. Raising taxes now is like treating lung cancer with a cigar; it does nothing to fix the cause of the problem.

It is time to correct the problem before it reaches a level where it can not be controlled.

"How about for starters we make Obama take back those over 1600 exemptions he gave to unions and other organizations so they don't have to participate in Obama Care."

It wasn't 1600 exemptions it was a little over 200. They were not given out to unions and other organizations, they were given out to help small businesses prepare for healthcare reform. From Fact check
Q: Has the Obama administration allowed corporations to "opt out" of the new health care law?

A: No. The government has granted more than 200 waivers, but these merely give companies a temporary delay before being required to improve the coverage of cheap, bare-bones plans they currently offer.

Gandolf I am trying to understand your point. Are you referring to war bonds being paid off? If so they were normally 10 year notes (bonds), and the last of which would have been paid off in the mid 1950's. The 90% tax rate extended well in to the 60's. Interestingly the national debt increased over 18% from the end of WWII until the +90% rates were lowered. This clearly shows a history in our nation that no matter the tax rates the debt still rises...

Gandalf: Just because it was initially set up as a progressive tax system, how does that make it fair? With your logic, we should never make any changes to the way we have done things in the past. Pretty lame logic (IMO). Don't you think there is an obligation to take care of yourself and not count on someone who has more than you to take care of you? Taking away from one and giving to another is the classic view of Socialism. This "American tradition" as you call it, needs to be stopped and redirected to make people accountable for their choices and decisions in life. Because I chose to get an education, work hard and make the most of my opportunities and as a result became somewhat secure, I now become obligated to take care of you.
For your information, there are many of us are suggesting that we stop these entitlements and unfair taxation.

How about for starters we make Obama take back those over 1600 exemptions he gave to unions and other organizations so they don't have to participate in Obama Care.

Jason: Hate to break it to you, but the banks get rich with interest rates at zero. Zero interest rates widen credit spreads so severely that a bank has to do nothing but sit on their butt and borrow money for free from the fed, and make a few simple-conservative, carry trades to make millions from the credit spreads that now exist..... Just hoard the free $$$ from the fed, make a modest couple % doing nothing but shuffling some $$$ around while never even making a loan (which is what spurs along an economy and growth). It's really a great scam, that very few are grasping here.
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No matter what side you believe in can the common ground be to at least get rid of these ridiculous loop holes in the tax code? What people are not getting in this is whole discussion is that tax rates MEAN NOTHING in the current environment. Some of you on the left are cracking me up...You can raise the "rich" tax rate to 90%, it won't matter, because most claim very little income, and are taking advantage of these preposterous tax loop holes. Writing off luxury boxes at a sporting event, whining and dining clients at exotic resorts...Having strippers write off the costs off breast implants, and on and on...That may at least be a good starting point if you want some real bi-partisan reform.

Gandalf if as you claim the debt was paid down with the high tax rates why did the debt increase all but one year under those rates?

Perhaps you need to check your facts. I provided you the link with the actual debt numbers. Revisionist history might make you feel better but it does not change the facts.

Remind me who gets rich when the borrowing credit rating drops and our interest rate increases? Oh yeah - the banks of the world, and the people who are invested in their stocks.

Remind me who pays more taxes towards this increased interest rate? Tax payers.

It's that simple - who's side are you on?

Please enclose a link to this "secret vote" that congress supposedly took.

How about instead of worrying about who to tax the most, lets first fix the problem? For all working in Washington and or at the state levels that were elected to their positions need Term Limits, No Pension and Obamacare for healthcare and for as long as there term lasts. For those that were not aware the folks in Washington held a secret vote after passing Obamacare into law to keep what they already had. We need to get these greedy leaches out of our back pockets first and then we can get some sanity back into equal taxation and remove the loopholes so folks have to pay fair taxes. If we don't fix the actual problem first talking about equal taxes is like trying to stop an artery from bleeding out with a Sponge Bob bandaid!

Bella,
What exactly are those cuts? Are they actually spending cuts or are they reductions in what he had planned on spending? Are they accounting tricks? Boehner rejected it because they aren't spending cuts.
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What I said is we need meaningful cuts, you are so enamored of the bozo that we have as president that you refuse to see the truth.

Gandalf: Thanks for your post. You put it very eloquently. Anyone should be able to understand what you said. And if they don't understand it, then they have blinders on and don't care to understand it anyway.

Let`s make sure we tax those 10,465 who made $200,000 or more(2007 figures), and paid no income tax while we are going after those that make $15,000.

Gandalf: I agree that the ones that pay 0 taxes need to begin sharing the burden, but wholeheartedly disagree that the successful people need to pay more. I could agree to that concept if services given were based on how much a person pays in, but not otherwise. That is almost the textbook definition of utopian socialism...a classless society that breeds mediocrity. If this lifestyle intrigues you, why not move to a country where it is the law of the land. In America, a person is (or used to be) rewarded for their risk taking and hard work, not for holding their hands out for some freebies.
Slowly, the left is taking away the desire for people to work hard in order to get ahead. If allowed to go unchecked, soon it will pay the same to not work and just sit home while letting the few pay for everything. At that point we are a socialist country. If we would start demanding significant spending cuts and that the non-contributors begin contributing instead of figuring out a way to take away from the people that have worked hard to achieve success, we would be moving in the right direction.

Bella, where can I find and read that plan?

And there it is - the root of our problem. If "you" won't do this, then "I" won't do that. Shrek, did you forget that President Obama laid out a proposal that would cut over $4 trillion from the national budget? But Boehner rejected it because it included tax hikes on the wealthy?

Actually alot of people are saying that raising taxes is the only route. I personally believe that a tax increase should be part of the equation also, along with real spending cuts, which our president refuses to put forward. Until the Democrats agree to meaningful spending cuts, there should be no discussion regarding tax increases.

Research Hauser's law. For those of you that are too lazy, it shows that no matter what the tax rates are, the revenue generated still hovers around 20% of GDP.
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There are roughly 2.2 million households that make $250,000 per year or more. If you tried to eliminate the deficit through tax hikes, each of these households would have to pay roughly $500,000.
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Tax hikes are not the answer, there is not enough money to do it. We need to cut spending.

Vato - if you "can live with that", then you should just stop arguing about overspending. First of all, the military men and women do not make nearly what they are worth. How about we stop fighting illegitimate wars, close our less-than-purposeful military bases in Europe and Asia and spend some of that money on paying the soldiers and their families a decent wage? How about we stop spending billions on weapons that are purchased at insanely inflated prices through government bids? How about we review defense contracts and the outrageous amounts of money that go to private companies for providing products and services to our military at prices that would never be accepted in an open market? But no. Let's harass the poor and make them feel even worse than they already do. The focus here is all wrong.

Vatoloco - No. This country was doomed when we entered into two wars and paid for them with credit cards. We maintain and pay for military bases overseas...60 years after the wars were fought. These are the costs that are bringing us down. Not your "social issues".

Well,
If you want to tax the millionaires at the pre-Bush tax cut rates, why don't we put spending at pre-Bush spending $'s ?

No need to increase taxes. But definitely a need to close tax loopholes and cancel the tax credits that are still left over from the Bush Administration. Tax hedgefund managers at income tax rates and not at the flat 15% rate they have been getting for too long. Spending needs to be cut. But I will never figure out how the GOP, through Fox News and others, managed to convince the Republican supporters that teachers and their unions are the reason we have a financial crisis. How they managed to make them the scapegoats in this mess is beyond me. And to get people to buy into it!! Amazing. All the while the criminals on Wall Street, who by all accounts were responsible for the crisis, walk free and continue to do what they do best - steal. They keep their loopholes, their tax breaks, their hedgefunds...while the GOP hurls insult after insult on the American middle class and the poor. Did you see Orrin Hatch's argument that "it's time for the poor to pay more taxes"? This would all be completely laughable if it wasn't so sad.

For all the posters that think tax increases are needed, do some research. The last time our nation reduced the debt, from one year to the next was in the late 50's. During the time the top tax rate was over 90% and it was over 90% for more than a decade, yet only 1 of those years was the debt level ever reduced.

Do you still think raising taxes will fix the problem? Or are you starting to understand the problem has never been tax collection or rates...when politicians spend more every year than is collected there is a problem. Until that stops you all must be very happy the govt is borrowing 4 billion per day to keep up their level of spending.

criticaleye how much revenue will you plan bring in?

Well Gary, which party actually stands for what their ideals are and isn't in it for the money or power or even to make everything look like its someone elses fault? So how do we fix this mess both parties got us into since all we can do is vote differnt people in? All ears Gary!

Spending cuts are needed. But as critical eye pointed out, Republicans need to realize that revenues are needed also, and closing corporate tax loopholes.

Do Republicans really believe they should call Obama's bluff? Do Republicans really believe we should let our nation default? If they believe that, then they should not call themselves patriots. Simple.

What always amazes me is how a handful of people
living on a tiny speck on the map
have the answers to all of our country's problems.

The problem with American's now a days is they are leaning too far to one side or the other in regards to politics. Can any of us here really say either side is worthy of our votes anymore? Does either side really stand for what their original ideals stood for or are they both looking to make everything look like the other parties fault and or grab as much power/money as possible? Unfortunately until American's wake up to the fact that both parties are a joke, both sides will continue to feed off the hatred of their follower's between the two parties. Just more "Busines as Usual"!!!

Critical eye... And what do the Dems offer...how about spending cuts NOW, not maybe down the road.

No, Republicans need to step up as adults and kick in some revenue. Close all corporate loopholes and tax the millionaires at the pre-Bush tax cut rates. Simple. Done.

Red did you read your link to the white house site? That was to the president’s proposed budget that was voted down 97-0 in the senate. Where is the data, specifics, for the plan you say obama called the reps bluff with? I have found all kinds of references in news pieces to "the plan", yet not one of those stories lists specifics nor has the white house or the dem party released specifics.

Really RAF, could you get any more lazy? Just google "Obama Budget Plan" and you get all kinds of hits. Although none were on the FOX News site so that's probably why you weren't able to locate the information. Here's the link.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Ove...
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Now where will I find the Republicans budget plan?
Oh here it is but it's dated January 2011 so a few things may have changed. Some of the highlights are listed below. Wow, they plan to cut a whopping $430.000 from the Stennis Center Subsidy.
http://www.usnews.com/news/washington-wh...

Eliminate death gratuity for Members of Congress.
Eliminate Mohair Subsidies. $1 million annual savings.
USDA Sugar Program. $14 million annual savings.
John C. Stennis Center Subsidy. $430,000 annual savings.

Yes sir RAF, those Republicans are SERIOUS about this deficit thing but I think they missed the millions of dollars in subsidies given to Big Oil.

Too bad Conservatives never run out of stupid things to say, Rusty.

Red stated "Obama called the Republicans bluff by putting together a plan to cut $4 trillion dollars from the budget AND initiating tax reform by cutting loopholes out of our tax code to increase revenue."
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Red I have searched for his proposal and have been unable to find the details on it...

Perhaps you have seen it and could provide a link to this plan.

If you want to bring down a liberal, just let them talk until they run out of stupid things to say.

You bet we should call Obama's bluff. Until he and his party of spend crazy liberal's can propose some concrete spending cuts from the many entitlement programs, we should hold firm on refusing to negotiate on raising the debt ceiling.
All the Democrat's will offer is superficial reductions in future spending...that is like saying you will begin your diet after New Year. We know how those resolutions go.
We know that Obama and his administration's comments are made to create fear in people when he knows that what he is saying is not true. He knows that Social Security checks will go out, but he knows that creating fear in people works well for his strategies. Some leader this guy is. His claim to fame is that he has dug the U.S. so deep in debt, none of us will live long enough to see a surplus at the federal level. We can only hope that America has seen enough of what this guy stands for that he will never be re-elected. That would be a major step in getting this country moving in the right direction.

Bella, when did you move back to Wisconsin? How are some of your failing European socialist countries doing economically right now? Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland....to name a few that are on the ropes.

Bella... Education degrees do not equal common sense. Some of the most educated people I know are the dumbest when it comes to common sense.

Honestly Shrek, you are being much too modest. You were able to prove your point all your own.

Thank you both for proving my point.

Shrek - that's your opinion and you are absolutely entitled to it. Do I think it's unreasonable? Absolutely, considering that I read way beyond the headlines and have two post-graduate degrees in political science and business. That might not mean anything to you, but it provides me with a good amount of confidence in my ability to interpret current affairs. I think you are wrong in your assumption that people to the left form their opinions solely based on headlines and emotions. Are there ignorant people on both sides of center? Absolutely. And it's getting a lot of attention right now because a handful of them are running as GOP presidential candidates....

Bella,
You actually are a shining example of what I am referring to. Your arguments on this board are typically weak and when called out you resort to personal attacks. You feel that you are intellectualy superior, but yet you don't take the time to do your research. You let your emotions take control of your arguments because you don't have the facts to back them up.
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I expect that you will attack me on this one and I can accept that. But that is why I express my opinions on this forum rather than in public. The personal attacks that are leveled against people like Paul Ryan, Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann are terrible and I don't want to subject myself to that.

Shrek - you just described my exact thoughts on Republicans. I guess this is where we are today. No trust in either side.

My experiences with Democrats is that they read headlines and do not go any deeper. A perfect example of this happened this weekend in Madison. I took my 7 year old daughter to see the capitol. While I was there I was approached by a man who wanted me to sign a recall Walker petition. I kindly said no thanks and he got rather upset and called me a dumbass Walker supporter. I asked him why he wanted to recall Walker. He said that it was because how Walker treated the teachers. I asked him what Walker had done. His response was he screwed them over. Once again I asked what he had done, he said he treated them like second class citizens. Once again, I asked what specifically he had done, the guy then called me an idiot. It seems that he had no idea what he was talking about.
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This is typical of the liberal mentality, they have been given talking points and don't have the information to back them up. I think this is why they bash conservatives. They think that conservatives are the same way, when I find that most conservatives are very well informed on issues. We just don't tend to discuss it in public because we get personally attacked by people that I refer to as "knowledge capped". They develop an opinion based on limited information and will defend that position with lies and aggression. They also have no concept of the oppositions point of view and are unwilling to consider that someone can think differently from them.

Where was all the outrage when the Republican'ts and Dem warhawks hoisted us into two unfunded wars? (all borrowed money?) Where was the outrage when Repubs passed the completely unfunded Medicare drug benefit?

It's called balance, check into it. You can't balance the US budget completely on spending cuts, but who want's their taxes raised? Not many. (Unless we gut defense and bring the troops home...funny how that isn't an option....isn't it?)
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http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/balance/

"Profits typically lead jobs and wages in a recovery, but this seems a lot more serious than a matter of leads and lags. With so much slack in the job market, workers have zippo bargaining power and for at least the last thirty years in this economy, when such conditions prevailed, growth did an end run around the middle class."

I_lv... I agree but include the union participation As well as corporate in your comment. I bet us common people from both sides could come to the table and get an agreement. What do you think?

916WI - I find we disagree a lot, but your last post was spot on. As an independent voter, I do find myself leaning hard Dem right now, but mostly because of all the corporate corruption being exercise by what seems to be the Republican majority, and so blatently so. That's not to say the Dems are not guilty of the same, at times, but it just seems really bad on the red side right now, and I don't like being treated as if we're too stupid to see it. As a former public service employee, I cannot accept the cuts being made while the money goes directly in the pockets of the corporate wealthy. Where does that get us? Nowhere financially, and the little guy suffers. It's neither fair nor right.

I just wish the partisan behaviors would end, and people could come together as one, for the good of all. Stop all the corporate influence, and maybe we can get somewhere.

Shrek, what truth is it that the Dems don't research and/or understand? Enlighten me, because I have been feeling exactly the same from the other side of the fence toward Republicans. I really don't see how they can accept all the corporate paybacks along side the cuts as a reasonable solution. Take all that pocket-padding out of the equation, and I think you'll see a whole lot more Dems accepting the cuts being put on the table.

Bella,
I disagree that Republican supporters are misinformed. I think that the Democratic supporters are unwilling to research the truth, therefore misinformed and too pompous to admit that they don't know what they are talking about.

"You are as stupid as all the rest of them if you truly believe that is the answer"
Take onedayatatime's advice and stop being so condescending and negative bebe.
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I have NEVER claimed raising taxes was the answer to solving the deficit. However, IF the deficit is as serious of a problem as Republicans claim it is - and I do believe that deficit reduction is vital - then additional tax revenue should be PART of the SOLUTION, not the answer. Seems to me, tax reform along with reductions in spending is the only sustainable means of actually putting a dent into our country's debt. Obama called the Republicans bluff by putting together a plan to cut $4 trillion dollars from the budget AND initiating tax reform by cutting loopholes out of our tax code to increase revenue. IF Republicans were REALLY serious about reducing the deficit they would join with Democrats. Instead Republicans come back with a proposal that is HALF of what Democrats want to cut, offering to only trim $2 trillion from the budget, while Mitch McConnell throws in the towel. Now THAT'S Leadership to be proud of.

Obummer has managed to increase the debt in two and a half years to equal all deficeits of all past presidents combined. Meaningful spending cuts will not happen as long as this man is in office. He is the one who is destroying our country. Europe is no longer a model to follow. Look at Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and the failing Irish economies as examples of what not to do.

Bella... We are waiting for your response to 916WI.........

Ideas for revenue enhancement: Close tax loopholes on Hollywood entertainment industry.
Eliminate ethanaol subsidies. Close depts of Education,Energy,TSA. All a good start.

bella when has any elected politicians of the us congress or us senate stood up and said they want to keep a member of the opposing party in the seat of the executive for the next election? Since the 2 party system makes the rules and drive the politics of the nation I anxiously await your answer.

bella........many of the Republicans fully support Obama. The Obama from 2006 though. Excuse the repost, but he hit the nail on the head with his quote, "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
It was wrong to raise the debt ceiling under Bush, just as it is wrong for us to do it under Obama. We now have over $14 trillion in debt. We borrow over 40% of every dollar that we spend. By every definition of the word, we are completely broke. Allowing our federal government access to another line of credit so it can continue spending like a drunken college kid living off of their parents credit card is not the answer. What was the point of putting a debt ceiling in place if we continually ignore it?? What it comes down to is that incredibly difficult and unpopular decisions need to be made. Entitlements have to be cut, our federal bureaucracy has to be reduced and taxes need to be raised on everyone. Whatever would come of doing this needs to be applied toward debt reduction, not more bureaucracy and more "pie in the sky" entitlement programs such as universal health care. It will never happen though and the country will continue to spend until it completely collapses from it's debt load. Americans have become fixated with "what's in it for me" as opposed to "what's in it for my country". Naturally, and unfortunately, those that represent their constituents in this decision making process are reflections of those that put them there.........

Shrek - YOUR reason for wanting Obama out might be due to your views on government spending. McConnell and others have stated repeateadly since the very beginning of Obama's presidency that their goal is to make him a "one-term president". This started before the stimulus package and before the discussions on the debt ceiling. They have been sabotaging all efforts of cooperation since day one, and I honestly believe they should be kicked out of Congress for their childish and frankly dangerous behavior. They refuse to cooperate on ANYTHING. We finally have an intelligent man in the White House and it scares the hell out of them. And to all of you who are supporting the Republicans at this time; you have got to be the most misinformed bunch of people this country has ever seen. Supporting what the Republicans are suggesting during this time of financial crisis is just unfathomable to me, unless you are a hedge fund manager or someone of great wealth. If you're middle class like me, the Republican leadership is laughing at your ignorance as they continue to tell Fox News what to feed you.

Concerned, Bella and Oneday,
You are all wrong. The reason we want Obama out of office is because he is destroying this country with his out of control spending. If nothing is done, we will be in the same situation as Greece. And interestingly enough, the WH is endorsing the Greek austerity measures. It actually makes no sense that Obama cannot see what he is doing. Maybe he is the one that wants us to fail?

Bella and Oneday: Kudos to you. It is very apparent that Republicans only want to get Obama out of the oval office. They will even destroy this country to get their way. At this point, it will be too late for everyone in our nation.

Does anyone know why Obama won't detail what cuts have been proposed?
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It is because they are not spending cuts at all, they are just decreases in what he wants to spend over the course of the next 10 years.
***
Do some research and find out the truth.

kiowamohican, for someone who claims not to take political sides - you're pretty funny.

The Washington elite is succeeding in their divide and conquer strategy. They have enough people on each side of the aisle spouting the taglines and mantras. Wake up everybody!!! Start thinking for yourselves!!!

The reality is the Republicans have very little power in this fight. They still only control one branch of the legislature, and the lower branch at that. Hopefully they will grid lock this thing right till the deadline, and really make things interesting. I really want to have some fun playing the markets! Been a very boring last year or so!...
I can pretty much tell you what will happen though....The Mitch McConnel "FOLD CITY" plan will be what passes at the end of the day. Once the pressure is turned up, media coverage is non-stop,the public gets up in arms , markets drop, ext; they will fall back to the path of least resistance..The Mitch McConnell plan, which is fully supported by Reed and Palosi! That plan would still need to get through the house, but you'll have enough wimps in the GOP who will fold, and vote for that plan, mark my word.

and yada - don't forget that the tax cuts for the wealthy are actually "Obama era' tax cuts, since he is the one that extended them.

Obama's speech to the nation yesterday reminded me of a whining cry baby that can't get his way anymore. The mean Republicans won't raise his credit card limit and Obama still has trillions of dollars he wants to give to the Big 3. It will be interesting to see the tantrum he has when he is forced to act responsibly.

arguing over which party is worse isn't going to solve any of the problems. The government is broke, One party doesn't want to lose votes by losing entitlement programs and the other doesn't want to lose them by increasing taxes. You all can argue all you want about Obama or Bush, I can let you know neither cares about the people. Unfortunetly the solution is to raise taxes AND cut spending, its the same thing we have to do in our own households, raise income and cut unnessecary spending,

If Boehner is the dealer in this high-stakes poker game, where is Obama? He is not sitting to the left of the dealer, he's sitting across the table. Democrats to the left are sure to be dissappointed and Republicants on the right will be devastated. Who will be the losers in this costly game, we, the taxpayers! It doesn't matter who you vote for in this country anymore, the little guys always lose. We must all learn our places in this affluent oligarchy or learn to contest our present condition.

The years of Bush as President are the cause of where we are now at. How sad that you still have the ReFIBlicans doing their best to destroy our country even more with a profoundly idiotic lack of care and cooperation. Reminds me of a guy named Walker and all of the problems he is causing.

Clearly, Obama is very worried about his chance at getting re-elected. His best case scenario would be to pass the blame onto the Republicans. If Obama and his followers are serious about getting our country moving again, they need to get serious about reducing debt by cutting spending. This can be done without raising taxes, but it will be painful. Apparently, they don't want to make these decisions because they risk losing some of their support from people that are accustomed to various entitlements. ! I am tired of paying for many of these entitlement programs that have become a way of life for many. As long as the Democrats continue to give them freebies, they will have their support. The Democrats need to move away from their platform of entitlement based mentality to an achievement based mentality. People that need help should be given help, but we all know there are people that are playing the system and costing the rest of us a lot of money.
Most of the country has acknowledged our taxes are too high and are frustrated that our elected officials refuse to make meaningful changes in their spending. If the Democrats are so focused on more taxation, what about taxing the 50% that pay no income tax? Pro-tax people last week advocated a small tax increase in Janesville would not be a problem for people to pay, so let's share the pain with ones that have been excluded. It may not provide a lot of money, but it will help in erasing the deficit and just might raise their self esteem in knowing they are at least contributing.

youkillme enforcement of laws is done by the executive branch. Perhaps you should ask the president why he has not worried about a budget either.

youkillme:
For the most part you are right in they have played their cards wrong from day one. If you consider day 1 being when they took control of congress. I really don't take political sides. Most who know me on these threads are very aware of that. I just call it as I see it, having a lot of past experience working in politics years ago...Now a days I'll wager on the out comes of many of these squabbles, just because it's often so easy to see through, and predict. Currently on Intrade, futures are selling to the point that it's an almost certainty that the debt ceiling will be increased. The Republicans have totally rolled over in this. They could have have really forced the issue, and "called the bluff" like Kraut says in this piece, but you really don't have to many savvy tacticians in the GOP, or all to many who will just take the principal stance that they campaigned upon. Really any party in leadership stands to get rolled right now. When the donkeys had power in congress they were totally rolled as well, and consequently lost a boat load of seats-power. The GOP will likely be rolled after falling flat on their face here. No one wants to lead now, as no one wants the blame for all the pain that is needed for any of the many problems to be seriously solved.

In that case kio, then the Republicans have been playing their cards wrong from the day Obama was elected. From that day, the GOP and their Tea Party cohorts have calling for tax cuts and spending cuts. I don't know how many times I've heard Ryan say "government doesn't have a taxing problem, it has a spending problem." So now there's a lot of talk about calling Obama's bluff. But Obama called the GOP's bluff. Now Obama sits down with them and says "let's do it, think big" so we don't have to come back here in 3 or 6 months and do it again. But the GOP has no intention of allowing Obama to take care of the deficit long-term because they want this to be a continuing major election issue in June 2012.

I think you are showing the obvious tactical flaw of the Republicans RAF.
Obama has not put out any plan on paper, that I am aware of. He just took the politically savvy route..Simply waited for the oppositions plan, and then tore into it as reckless, immoral, uncaring, ext. Of course it's very EASY to attack ANY debt cutting plan now, because we are in a situation that ANY plan that wants to reduce the debt is going need MAJOR cuts, and be painful to many, so it's much easier to just wait to see someone elses plan is, and attack it. The Republicans really played their cards wrong. It's pretty typical of them. They always seem to be out played tactically-politically to savvy politicians like Obama-Clinton. When it's a stooge like Palosi or Reed they can win, but they are not in the same league (tactically and politically) as Obama, who is a GRANDMASTER!

RAF, Why aren't they enforcing provisions of the Act? Is it because it probably does not meet Constitutional muster?

" they are too obstinate and thick headed to admit their tax policy is wrong."
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If you thought your policy was the answer you would have paying a higher rate all these years...so much for conviction and a principled position.

youkillme said "but there is nothing in law about time intervals on budgets, whether it is weekly, monthly or annually or once every decade."
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There is a federal law on budgets that specifically outlines what you just declared did not exist. http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/house...

Red said "He crafted a proposal that “would cut federal budget deficits by a cumulative $4 trillion over 12 years, compared with a deficit reduction of $4.4 trillion over 10 years in the Republican plan"
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He did? Where can we read the proposal and the specifics in it? When did his cuts start to take place (what year)? What was the delta in new taxes between his and the other plan?

People should also stop this silly notion that China is financing all our debt. China is buying very little now, as they know it's a massive house of cards ready to collapse. I get such a laugh hearing this same rhetoric of how foreign countries are financing our debt increases. The fact is that we have so much debt now, that has become so large, and so so uncertain, that it's no longer being bought by you-me, and foreign nations. It's simply being bought up by the Federal reserve, with $$$ they are creating out of thin air.

WalterR:
You pretty much hit it on the head. In short the Republicans are gutless wimps. They won't take a stand because they know a governmnet shut down, or market catastrophe, will be blamed entirely on them, much like it was in 96 with Clinton. So they basically campaign to oppose debt ceiling increases, tax increases, ext, but when it comes time to put up, they FOLD like an accordion. McConnel has ALL READY thrown in the towel. When Obama played the BRILLIANT political card of (seniors may not get their SS check if nothing is done) it was hilarious to see the Republican leadership scramble like maggots. They knew they were cooked politically, and now all they will do is agree to a debt ceiling increase, with some minor bone thrown their way..TOTAL FOLD CITY is coming. As usual no one cares about principals (well other then a very few) and will simply do what it takes to win the next election.

" we'll see where Indiana is headed soon. The state government confiscated $1.2 billion more from their taxpayers pockets than what it needed after shorting education, childrens and seniors programs. They have no intentions of rebating the money back to the taxpayers."
Yep, waiting to see what happens next here in Wisconsin. We already have to deal with a 12% increase in our property taxes.

The President has already told the Republicans he's not backing off the long term plan even if it costs him the Presidency. Meanwhile, Mitch McConnell is so worried about maintaining his status as minority leader that he's backing away from the line he drew in the sand while Boehner and Cantor can't get on the same page to save their political lives. If the Republicans don't get it together, American people won't blame the debt crisis on Republican politics. They'll blame it on Republican ineptitude. Either way, they're screwed. When the deal does get done, which it will because Wall St. & corporate America won't let America's bond rating slip, Obama will look like the daddy that made all the kids sit down together and play nice.

Libertybelle, we'll see where Indiana is headed soon. The state government confiscated $1.2 billion more from their taxpayers pockets than what it needed after shorting education, childrens and seniors programs. They have no intentions of rebating the money back to the taxpayers.

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” …….. Senator Barack Obama-2006

Beb53, Compared to the conservatives tea party drive to destroy Obama? Nobody did that to Bush. Bush was the butt of jokes and harsh criticism from the left and liberals but nothing near the vitriol and organized efforts thrown at Obama by members of Congress.

I voted for Bush ....both times. Your condescending comments show how little you are able to carry on an informative debate. I’ve read you other comments…you are not worthy of debating. I don’t waste energy on negativity.

Settle down bebe. I hardly think stating the fact Bush needed to raise the debt ceiling 7 times in four years ( Reagan raised it 19 times in his two terms) so Bush could add $5.365 TRILLION dollars to our deficit and not one single Republican EVER hinted that their needed to be matching cuts constitutes "leftist drivel". You Republicans seem to have a really hard time dealing with facts and truth. Don't get me started on how absolutely ridiculous the GOP sound every time they say "job killer" when discussing tax rates or even eliminating loopholes. The Republicans have not only "killed" jobs but the economy as well. Now they want to take down the entire country all because they are too obstinate and thick headed to admit their tax policy is wrong.

beb53, There's a lot more to the story than to just say the controllers walked away illegally. They did, but because they were also protesting the clause that disallowed strikes. They had many valid grievances and requests for better working conditions that went ignored, only to pan out later. Walker, like Reagan, is setting a poor example for the rest of us. We'll see where this "there is nothing to negotiate and nothing to compromise" attitude will take us when everybody does it.

I agree with Bella. Mitch McConnell has said repeatedly that the GOP's #1 priority is to make sure Obama is a one term President. Their priority is not jobs, not the economy, not what's best for the country, not the middle class struggles, not Wall Street coruption. Their #1 priority is to bring Obama down even if it means destroying the country to do it and then they turn around and say they love this country, as they are ripping it apart. Just the post on this site are proof of that.

Carter was way ahead of his time. He repeatedly warned the country about energy and what steps need to be taken to secure affordable energy in the future. He put solar panels on the White House over 30 years ago - only for Reagan to tear them off. He also asked that people and the government begin tightening their belts, become less wasteful and more frugal. They laughed him out of office and brought in numbskull who proceeded to bust unions and lay the framework all the way up to a $14 trillion debt today. Carter was so wrong.

http://www.theindychannel.com/money/2854...

More Conservative channeling

one word for you....Landslide!

Because Reagan did so much good for this country....hahahahaha. I respect Carter a lot more than I respect Reagan.

No bella, there is a different path Obama could have taken and Canada with the new Conservatives in charge are leading the way.

http://news.yahoo.com/housing-starts-ris...

Canada is following Reagan platform 15% corporate rate, lowering income tax, building not tearing down as Obama is following the Carter platform.

I think some of the Republicans are traitors. They have a publically stated goal of making sure President Obama only serves one term. So they will do anything to make his presidency fail, including giving the U.S. a negative credit rating if they have to. When your main goal is to take down the sitting president, you've basically declared that you do not have this country's best interest at heart.

Thank you youkillme, but why haven't they passed a budget in over 800 days is the bigger question. How many times in the past 4 years of Democrat House ownership have they raised the debt ceiling and not taxes? ZERO

8 years of George Bush (big spender) went from 5.7 Tril to 10.6 Tril. 8 Years
2-1/2 years of Barak Obama 10.6 to 14.6.
If Barak Obama was granted 8 years the debt would be 23.4 Tril and we don't even know how much 2014 ObamaCare would cost us above the estimates.
...Is that higher then the current entire economy? Could be close.

Great comment PanamaRed. Plus, no matter what Obama proposes - they cannot agree with or give him credit for - no matter what. If Obama found the cure for Alzheimers or turned saltwater into gasoline, they'd say it's the devil's trick and he must not be re-elected. It's all about getting winning and getting re-elected for republicans so they can finish the job of selling out the country.
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Liberybelle, this is from the Constitution about your perception of "overdue" budgets.
Section 9 Limits by Congress
No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.----------------- What does from “time to time” mean? I'm not defending Democrats, but there is nothing in law about time intervals on budgets, whether it is weekly, monthly or annually or once every decade.

Why would the Republicans want Obama to succeed in seeming to reduce the deficit going into an election year?
(a)...They don't.
(b)...They can't.
(c)...They won't.
(d)...All of the above.
Obstruct,and then say "I's not our fault"

I'd like to see a 800 day overdue Democrat Budget.

Cut, Cap and Balance!

Thank you PanamaRed. All anyone has to do is watch them in action and the truth will be revealed. But like I stated once, some people don't watch our representatives live in action. They only go by what is told to them.

Chuckie, you are a bit confused. It was Obama that called the Republican bluff.

Here is what the Republicans sounded like;
“Boehner also said spending cuts need to be in excess of any increase in the debt limit ($2.4 trillion).”
Cantor said, “It is trillions, not billions, that we are talking about,”. “Anything less is not serious.”
Republican Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) says “[a] bill to raise the debt limit without spending cuts attached would not get a single Republican vote in the House.”

So what did Obama do? He crafted a proposal that “would cut federal budget deficits by a cumulative $4 trillion over 12 years, compared with a deficit reduction of $4.4 trillion over 10 years in the Republican plan”. Of course the Republicans jumped on board, right? And offered to work with Democrats to eliminate this crippling deficit, right?

Well not exactly. You see, Republicans live in this fantasy land where they believe ANYTHING that could lead to someone earning millions per year to pay a penny more in taxes is viewed as a “job killer” while pretending tax cuts on the wealthiest “creates jobs”. What JOBS you say? You know, all those jobs created over the past decade due to the tax cuts passed by Republicans in 2001 and 2003. Well actually they are pretend jobs.

Confusing? Ponder this; Republicans are adamant, resolute, steadfast and unyielding in their demands to reduce the deficit which is why they refuse to accept any proposal submitted by Democrats that would serve to reduce the deficit. So how many times did the debt ceiling go up under Bush? Seven (7) times in eight years. Did Republicans insist on cuts to offset the debt ceiling increase? Absolutely not! Yes sir, those Republicans are sure serious about reducing the deficit. You can see it in their eyes.