Poorrichard.... I think your 10 rules are as applicable today as ever. They make good sense so we can all live together in peace instead of the entitlement attitude some have today. And I thinks it's the height of hypocrisy for Mexico and the other countries to think they can sue one of our states.

Mexico and 10 other countries have filed amicus briefs in a lawsuit that asks a judge to declare Georgia’s new immigration law unconstitutional and to block it from being enforced.
The lawsuit was filed two weeks ago by civil liberties groups.
Besides Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua and Peru filed amicus briefs on Wednesday in support of the plaintiffs…

"Several taxi companies and more than 2,000 cab drivers have filed their own lawsuit against the law" (Georgia immigration law). "Their grievance has to do with a specific provision which would make it a misdemeanor to transport fewer than seven undocumented immigrants and a felony to drive any more than that. The cab drivers claim that this would burden them with the responsibility of checking the immigration status of each and every one of their passengers. (Not to mention the potential invasion of privacy that the law would inflict on their customers)."
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/06...

bella-Doesn't it bother you at all that other countries are suing states here to change our laws? OK I'm ignorant but I know whats important and whats not.

poorrichard - If you are basing your opinions of other countries only on what you've heard or read, and if you've never been outside North America, then yes, your statements are ignorant.

Rodger- That list is as up to date today as it was 10 years ago. Good rules to live by.

RogerClegg,
Your list is un-American. To demand that people not hold a grudge, to try to tell them how or how not to "view" hard work and to demand that someone "be proud" of something; that's all mind control. Is that the type of America you want to live in? Where people are all forced to think and believe the same way? There are many different views about what America is and should be. There is no wrong or right answer. To narrow it down into a list of ten items, some of which, in my opinion, come off as more than a bit racist, is ridiculous. Nothing about America can be that simplistic. Your list shows a lack of consideration for much of anything really, but it definitely doesn't have anything to do with the America that I know and love.

Here's my top-ten list of what we should demand from those who want to become Americans (and those who are already Americans, for that matter). The list was first published in an National Review Online column a decade ago [link: http://old.nationalreview.com/comment/co... ], and it is fleshed out in Congressional testimony [link: http://old.nationalreview.com/comment/co... ]:

1. Don’t disparage anyone else’s race or ethnicity.
2. Respect women.
3. Learn to speak English.
4. Be polite.
5. Don’t break the law.
6. Don’t have children out of wedlock.
7. Don’t demand anything because of your race, ethnicity, or sex.
8. Don’t view working and studying hard as “acting white.”
9. Don’t hold historical grudges.
10. Be proud of being an American.

bella-Why does it bother you more about what I think of Europe than our country being sued by other countries to change our laws? Don't you think thats a big deal?
Only traveling I've done is in the USA, Canada
Mexico so I guess that makes me ignorant to you, so be it. Doesn't change my image of most of them as third rate.

poorrichard - European countries are "third rate" to you? You must not have traveled much. How ignorant.

jaf2,
I never said anything about "shunning" other languages. Nor did I ever say that we should only speak Spanish. Give it a rest. This article is about Spanish speakers. That has been the focus of my comments.
Also, just because I use the name "WalterReuther" doesn't mean that I can't love the U.S. unconditionally. My username dictates my level of loyalty to my country? What kind of idiotic implication is that anyway?
Plus, yes I did in fact have to attain a certain level of proficiency in another language to graduate college. The bachelor of arts degree thatt I earned had a foreign language requirement. Part of why I chose that degree instead of the bachelor of science was because I was already taking the Spanish classes.
Finally, I think you should give bella's posts a read. They should be quite eye opening for someone with your views. She states, as I did, that nearly all Spanish speakers here in the U.S. put forth the effort to bridge the language gap even though are not required to and, in many cases, have no pressing need to. The people that seem to offend you the most are the people that refuse to learn any English at all. Well, those people are very few and very far between.
The weak rhetorical tactic of speaking about the exception as though it is the rule is easy to spot. I have to believe that's what you're trying to do because I can't believe you would be so ignorant as to believe your own b.s.

poorrichard,
You're just as bad as RetireAirForce. Taking my comment out of the context of language and culture that I intended it to be in doesn't mean that you have actually changed what I originally posted. Thanks for the award, though I must politely decline. I couldn't possibly take it away from its very deserving rightful owner.

Mexico and 10 other countries have filed a lawsuit against Georgia's immigration law.
Is this what it has come to when other countries can decide if they don't like one of our laws they can sue to change it.
Wake up America before it's too late-these liberal nut case's won't be happy until the USA is a third rate country like most of Europe.

Walter says-"I love to see things change"
For that to come from you is a real joke.
I guess that "change" can't be anything you disagree with can it?
You get the "Rubber Boots Award" for the deepest load dumped this month-Congrats.

Walter-You sure turned that around-good job. They might have an opening for you at MSNBC.
Glad to hear you're so proficient in Spanish.
Since you're such a young guy you'll need it when you get to be my age and Spanish becomes the official national language.

I agree that it is disrespectful to purposefully NOT make any effort to learn the language when you move to a new country. I really do. But I believe we are talking about a minority of immigrants, and I don't think it's that big of a deal. Should you HAVE TO learn another language to communicate with this minority? That's not a relevant question, because no one will force you to study a language. If you want to learn it because a lot of your customers speak Spanish and it will help your business, well....you make the call. Do I think learning a second language in school is beneficial? Absolutely. And kids learning Spanish in our schools is not just so they can communicate with non-English speaking immigrants, it is so that they can reach a wider audience when they enter the business world upon graduation. Same thing if they learn Chinese, or Arabic, or Russian. The more languages you know, the farther you will reach. Learning a second (or more) language is good for anyone and should be encouraged.

Bella...congrats to you and your family for learning the language. I'm sure it wasn't easy. My mother-in-law didn't learn English until she started school and helped the rest of her family learn the language. Her school didn't provide ESL classes but only taught in English but she learned the language and did well. If we do everything in both languages what is the motivation to learn English? Phone calls to companies, schools, banks, gov't agencies all let people chose whether they want to do their business in Spanish or English, so why learn English.

bella, the topic was on spanish, but I feel the same about anyone coming here. I do believe they should hold on to their culture and even their language in community (i.e., german community) and family environments, even teaching their language to their children.

The total lack of culture here is in fact disappointing to me. I think its important for children to know where they came from both in culture and, to at least some extent, in language.

However, I think it's disprespectful for people to come here and make no effort to learn English. I also think its equally disprespectful for Americans to go abroad and not try to learn the language of the nation(s) they're travelling to. To suggest that I should learn Spanish (or any language) to accomodate someone who refuses to learn English is what I find offensive.

I will add one more thing. This report does not detail the full nature of the hearing. I suspect the spanish-speaking person was testifying under oath but that is not determined. In such a case, I can understand using the language a person is most certain not to be misquoted in. However, that person should also make sure the interpreter is extremely proficient, because from what I read it appears as if the speaker was at least as fluent in English as his translator. How can one be sure that what the translator is saying is exactly what the spanish speaker is saying? I think his explanation was stated a bit on the weak side but was trying to state just that same thing.

kid, you are absolutely right. And 90% of the time I am able to ignore the retoric, but 10% of the time I just can't help myself and hit the "post comment" button before I know it. Haha.

bella you should know by now that whether its immigrants, political affiliations, welfare recipients, pot smokers, old people, texters, or insert topic of the day here, they ALL get lumped together. its soooo much easier to hollar about the negatives of insert topic of the day here, when we talk as if the good 90% are justly represented by the bad 10%.

jaf and donnaw and others - You shouldn't lump all immigrants together, hispanic or otherwise. There are many, many hispanic immigrants who speak perfect English and are happy to do so, and who make sure their children learn English. There are always going to be some immigrants who do not learn the language, for a number of different reasons, and that's just the name of the game. I know Americans who live abroad who will never bother to learn the language of their new nations, because they can always find enough people who'll let them speak English. And really, what's the big deal? Why do you find this so offensive? I am an immigrant myself, been here for 15 years, and I speak English because I learned it from an early age in my native country. It is harder to learn a new language as an adult, our adult brains aren't picking up new languages as easy as our kids do. I agree that someone who lives here for most of their lives should make an effort at learning the language. But is it going to bother me or affect me personally if they don't? Not likely. Sometimes it's ok to just accept things for what they are.

To all those who argue that there is no official language in the USA...Yes that is technically true, but consider this: Were you allowed to graduate High School (and college, if you attended an American college or university) without demonstrating a certain level of proficiency in English? Can you say the same for Spanish? So there is a de facto official language: (say it with me class) Eeeen Glishy.

I have no objection to learning a second or even third language. But I do object to the suggestion that I SHOULD learn a language when the mutual respect does not exist to learn English when they are here.

I can in fact coexist fairly efficiently in four languages due to having learned those languages in my travels to the countries whose people spoke them. My experiences were much better there than many I was travelling with because I demonstrated my desire to learn the language of the host nation.

I am only asking for the same respect from our guests, invited or otherwise.

oh, by the way WR I actually do know one hillbillie, and her line of thinking is much the same as yours. Please feel free to fire away with more HB comments.

Every first-generation non-spanish-speaking immigrant, who truly wanted to be here badly enough to learn English, should sue WalterReuther for every penny he's worth for discrimination. How dare you shun them and suggest that we (and they as well) should only learn Spanish, so that we can cater to those who are not even here legally, and don't even care enough to speak English?
hmmm...I wonder what your nicknamesake would think about that, shunning his German immigrant parents native language, yet trying to convince them that they too should learn Spanish?

Didn't he (WalterReuther) ditch the USA to go live in Russia? Yet you use his name and proclaim that your "love for this country is unconditional"?

donnaw,
I never called anyone a hillbilly. I have no issue with them. As I stated I'm glad someone was able to represent them. I don't know if that person is a hillbilly. I am just glad the views could be expressed so everyone could see them.

poorrichard,
I'm sorry if you feel the values that YOU listed are archaic and cowboy like. I would disagree. The whole "stay off our land" mentality and the idea that anybody that lives here has to act a certain way or speak a certain language, those are the values I am talking about. My love for this country is unconditional. I love to see things change. I graduated high school almost 15 years ago and I could recognize the shift taking place in our country already back then. I took a lot of Spanish classes. I took some more in college. I can functionally communicate with a Spanish speaker and have used my skills many times over the years since I began learning. More often than not I come across Spanish speakers that make the effort to communicate in English. I honestly don't think I've ever heard "No Ingles". I consider making the effort to communicate to be "doing right by my friends and neighbors". I believe that the effort is reciprocated a vast majority of the time.

Oh Please Walter get it right when its all said and done we will be speaking chinese not spanish

WR why call people names? You have a bias against "hillbillies"?

Walter-Archaic cowboy values to most of us mean love of country, love of family, doing right by our friends and neighbors, praising God
and taking care of ourselves.
What are your values?

It is truly amazing that there are so many people that refuse to believe or simply don't recognize that the U.S. is changing. Many people just won't let go of their archaic cowboy values, and eventually they'll just get left behind. I'll say it again. Corporations run this country. Corporations love money. Corporations don't care what language the person that is spending money speaks. If you want to know why immigration policy has continued to be so lax in this country, look to the corporations and their control of the government.

jaf2,
I'm glad you commented. I was a bit worried that hillbillies were not being adequately represented here in the comments section, but you've done a fine job of speaking up for them.
Obviously the only way to give your opinion any credibility is to end it with a "kiss my a**". Such a mature and civilized sentiment. I'm sure I can find that same line of text somewhere in AZ SB 1070, right?

Walter-Is this part of your Utopia when Spanish is the prevailing language, everyone is in a union, government health care, 95% tax rate on the wealthy and corporations? Well it may be an outdated idea to you but I disagree.
I'll "cling" to English, and my guns and religion in spite of what you or Obama think.

And French because part of Canada speaks French.

donnaw-- As pointed out earlier, English is only the de facto launguage of our society. It is not, nor will it likely ever be, the official language of the United States. The reason being that such a law would violate the first amendment of the Bill of Rights. To make English the official language would require an amendment to the Constitution.

I do agree with your point that it is the Constitution, and many symbols like the flag, that unite the States of this county. Yet, English is simply the language most often used to communicate here.

However, to address this part of your comment:

"...in Europe where the countries are each about the size of our states and all speak a different language. The countries are next to each other so they learn each others' languages."

First off, only some of each country's citizens ever learn a second language. Very few ever learn them all. Typically, anyone learning another country's language did so simply to increase their ability to facility trade. Again, the reason for doing so was out of necessity.

Secondly, if your justification for Europeans is true, that people should learn the language of their neighboring countries; shouldn't we ALL learn Spanish.

Unless you are American Indian the majority of our ancestors came from somewhere in Europe where the countries are each about the size of our states and all speak a different language. The countries are next to each other so they learn each others' languages. That would be like each of our states having a different language. In this country the English language is one of the things that unite us as does the flag and our fed gov't.

The Spanish conquest of the Aztecs was actually a little UNDER 500 years ago. My bad.

BillyClydePuckett,
Let me get you up to speed. The Spanish Empire conquered the Aztec civilization a little over 500 years ago. It is the United States that now attempts to lord over the western hemisphere as though we own every man, woman and child on this half of the planet. I suggest you read germancaveguy's post. He summed up quite well why most Spanish speaking immigrants have no real need to speak English, yet most still at least put forth the effort to bridge the communication gap.

This is a really stupid objection to immigration. The human brain is optimized to learn a new language before maturation. If you have learned ANY second language as a child, you are better equipped to learn a new tongue as an adult, but if you have only one language and are already mature, it is pretty difficult to become fluent. On the other hand, the second generation of any immigrant community almost always grows up speaking English as a first language (or co-first language, if they're lucky). It's not like they keep speaking Spanish (or Italian or Polish) generation after generation. As such this is a direct discrimination against first-generation immigrants. Someone who immigrates as an adult generally did not have the chance to do so when they were young enough to easily learn a second language.

donnaw -- The idea you put forth that those that immigrated to this country were proud to "Americanizes" is partially wrong. Yes, nearly all immigrants, present and past, are proud of their choice to come to this country. Additionally, they also work to assimilate into our culture.

On the other hand, nearly every one of them emigrated to seek out better opportunities here. They didn't do so because they wanted to escape their previous culture. As a result, they still have a very strong desire to hold onto many of the cultural aspects of their heritage.

As this pertains to language, the fact that many immigrants adopted English isn't solely due to their desire to assimilate. If your notion is true, that proper assimilation means adopting the native language, then many of us should be speaking one of the languages of the many tribes that were here before us. Yet, this is not the case.

Much of the reason the many people coming to America started learning and speaking English was the fact that is was the most common one here. People adopted this language out for its practicality. When you have many people coming together, all speaking a different primary language, there needs to be a common ground. In this case, it happened to be English that was the language that bridged the communication gap. Furthermore, not all immigrants that came here every gained any sort of proficiency in English. The relied on other family to do the communicating for them.

For many of the immigrants coming here today, they have no need to adopt English. For them, it serves them no practical purpose. With Spanish being the most spoken language in all of the Americas, there are still plenty of people that they can communicate with. In many of the communities they live in, they can fully function without the need to speak English. Given the amount of dedication it takes for a person to learn a new language, in these communities, they choose not to learn because they see little benefit in doing so. There is definitely no necessity for them to do so.

Just as many United States citizens who speak English refuse to learn Spanish, the same goes for Spanish speakers. In most cases people try to make the many points that these people should learn English out of frustration for not being able to communicate with them. Yet, the other option still exist; to learn Spanish.

For a person to expect others to do something their way, when they themselves refuse to do the same thing, is completely hypocritical. The notion that English speakers have the right to force others to put in all the work to bridge the gap in communication is completely one sided. Instead, if one desires to speak to someone else with a different native language, they themselves should put in the effort to learn it.

After all, this is what most immigrants have done. It worked great for them.

There are many parts of this country in which "Spanish speakers resided before English speakers. Many Americans have it in their head that might makes right. If that is the case, English speakers that whine and complain about hearing Spanish being spoken should be prepared for their comeuppance as Latinos are far and away the fastest increasing ethnicity in this country."

Gee, how did the Spanish language make its way to Texas and other parts of the country. Perhaps my history is a little weak but wasn't it brought by people who wiped out entire cultures in their quest for wealth? I guess that "might makes right" must have been ok back then? There is a quick way to reverse the growth of the Spanish speaking population of this country. First, enforce the laws against illegal immigration at both the individual and employer level. Second, eliminate the outdated and senseless clause that allows for anyone born in the U.S. to be granted citizenship even if their birth monther is here illegally and third reduce government subsidies for additional children for those who cannot suppor the ones they have. I know that some will cry racism but these steps are simply common sense and should be applied regardless of the language one speaks.

My question then is how do Republicans justify working hard for a corporate America through deregulation and tax cuts when the desire for profit motivates many big businesses to lobby for immigration policy that is less strict and to advocate for bilingual and ELL programs? Because at the same time the Republican politicians are promising to work toward much stricter immigration and English only policies. It seem to be an obvious and significant conflict.

Companies are in business to make money, not lose money, so they will appeal to their customers--it's called Marketing 101. America's success is built on the profit motive. I have no problem with that. And its not up to businesses to determine who is legally here and who is not, What I do have a problem with is ANY immigrants coming to this country and expecting the rest of the country to adapt to their language, customs etc. It seems we have bent over backward to the Hispanic population as compared to when other large groups of immigrants (who were 99% legal) came they assimilated into the country by learning the language and the customs. They were proud to be "Americanized." We didn't offer classes in schools for them (English as a second language). And before you call me prejudiced, we cared for a Hispanic foster son and my husband taught in ESL.

donnaw
The United States has no national language. 27 states have adopted English as the state's official language. WI has not done so. I agree with you that corporate America caters to Spanish speakers out of an insatiable thirst for money. Seeing as how the Republicans party tends to be the party that caters most often to big business, it seems that the anti-immigrant and English only view of Republicans are at odds with the corporate philosophy toward both legal and illegal Spanish speaking immigrants.

Try moving to Mexico and speak only English. Or move to France and speak only English. English is our national language and I don't see that changing. Businesses use Spanish to attract hispanic customers, not because they are compassionate. It's about the almighty dollar.

Spanish & the native dialects of Mexico were being spoken in what is present day Texas long before English was. There are many parts of this country in which Spanish speakers resided before English speakers. Many Americans have it in their head that might makes right. If that is the case, English speakers that whine and complain about hearing Spanish being spoken should be prepared for their comeuppance as Latinos are far and away the fastest increasing ethnicity in this country. Just look at the most recent census numbers. Soon it will be up to them if might makes right. Case in point, every large corporate retail chain store you go into makes it a point to include a Spanish translation on their signage. State governments can hold all the hearings they want, but we all know that corporations and big business really decide how things are going to be. All businesses see are dollar signs crossing the border from Mexico into the U.S. Most large retailers like Wal-Mart are already hiring more Spanish speaking employees to assist that growing customer base. Those that cling to the outdated idea of English as the national language have already been passed by without even realizing it.

I would be more understanding if I listened to him speak in English with an accent than if I listened to him speak thru a translator. I would think that at least he is trying to speak the language. I think using a translator is a cop out when you do know the language.