dkush21 read the bill, everyone you listed will have the same limits.

And like I said before, when our government officials, including Mr Walker, give up their rights and we can decide their pay, and if they deserve pensions, and if they deserve cadillac healthcare and if they deserve all the wasteful perks and spending of tax money which we dish out for them, then we can talk about them taking away others rights.

vataloco: Didn't you ever hear the saying that there needs to be balance. Not total capitalism and not total socialism. You go all the way in one direction, and it can destroy everyone. Like what is happening now, but everyone blames the person who is trying to make a decent living, not the real problem, which is the greed of the real rich who want more at the cost of the middle class. Do you really think the the Koch brothers give a darn about you and me, the LITTLE people? Do you really think that Walker gives a darn about any of us? If so, I think you better take another good look. It's all about the money! and yeah, it's about money with the unions too, but I'll be damned if someone tries to take our rights away that we worked so hard many years ago for. Be careful of what you wish for because it may just come back to bite you in the long run.

"And to the Koch brothers, crawl back into the hole you came out of. We don't want you here destroying Wisconsin."

Let socialism destroy WI....Yeah........That's better.............

Dragonbreath, again, this is not just about the unions! Wake up, man/woman!

Petty: taking away parking privileges and copy machines.
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Not Petty: Stopping the state senate from passing a bill that is totally wrong.
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My favorite Petty: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hK_OOhO9A1M/TC...

Senator Chris Larson says that the Republicans are becoming "increasingly petty"? That's like the pot calling the kettle black. Running away to Illinois when you don't like a bill sounds "increasingly petty" to me. Shame on you, Senator Larson, and your 13 colleagues for putting Wisconsin in limbo. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. If the Republicans did this, you would be calling them cowards. You are all a bunch of cowards for hiding out in Illinois.

dragonfire- Take a chill. You're guilty of the same, with names and such. Not right for one is not right for the other.

"Or don't you know your history?"
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Yes, those leaches that only work 40 hours a week, take weekends off, and make kids stay out of the mines. String them up I say!

I am right. The unions are leeches. That's the bottom line. Or don't you know your history? Probably not if you have union members teaching you.

doc0430. Now you know what kind of vile attacks and inane arguments have been at the Capitol. Anyone who doesn't agree with the unions and it's supporters are viciously attacked. They just don't just disagree and state their cause. They call names and make vile statements and threats that are not true. What is that rule for radicals? It doesn't matter what the truth is as long as the outcome is how one wants it. So anything and any tactic is used to justify the outcome. It won't hold though. That kind of foundation crumbles and they start to eat their own.

dragonfire you couldn't be more wrong.
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http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/11733...

The vast majority of Wisconsin people are in agreement with Governor Walker. The unions no longer serve a purpose. They have become greedy people who are willing to strip every taxpayer so they can have better pension, medical and other benefits above the average taxpayer and at their expense. Reguaredless if the state has the money or not. They are willing to allow the state to go deeper in debt for their own benefit.

a

UPDATE: The Americans for Prosperity group, a Tea Party group that is a Koch Brothers front, has put up a website and petition called www.standwithwalker.com. The website attacks all collective bargaining – not just for public employees’ unions. Americans for Prosperity is also organizing a rally tomorrow in Wisconsin to support Gov. Walker.

Why are the Koch Brothers so interested in Wisconsin? They are a major business player in the state.

This from Think Progress:

Koch owns a coal company subsidiary with facilities in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan; six timber plants throughout the state; and a large network of pipelines in Wisconsin. While Koch controls much of the infrastructure in the state, they have laid off workers to boost profits. At a time when Koch Industries owners David and Charles Koch awarded themselves an extra $11 billion of income from the company, Koch slashed jobs at their Green Bay plant:

Officials at Georgia-Pacific said the company is laying off 158 workers at its Day Street plant because out-of-date equipment at the facility is being replaced with newer, more-efficient equipment. The company said much of the new, papermaking equipment will be automated. [...] Malach tells FOX 11 that the layoffs are not because of a drop in demand. In fact, Malach said demand is high for the bath tissue and napkins manufactured at the plant.

You really have to wonder how long it will take for Tea Party devotees to realize just how badly they are being used.

Koch Brothers Behind Wisconsin Effort To Kill Public Unions
Feb. 18 2011 By RICK UNGAR
As the nation focuses on the efforts of Governor Scott Walker to take away collective bargaining rights from public employees in Wisconsin, new information is coming to light that reveals what is truly going on here.

Mother Jones is reporting that much of the funding behind the Walker for Governor campaign came from none other than uber-conservatives, the infamous Koch Brothers.

What’s more, the plan to kill the unions is right out of the Koch Brothers play book.

Koch-backed groups like Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the Reason Foundation have long taken a very antagonistic view toward public-sector unions. Several of these groups have urged the eradication of these unions. The Kochs also invited Mark Mix, president of the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, an anti-union outfit, to a June 2010 confab in Aspen, Colorado;

Via Mother Jones

If you are reluctant to believe that this is a coordinated attack, consider this-

This afternoon, Marty Beil, executive director of the Wisconsin Public Workers Union, sent a message to the Governor’s office agreeing to the cuts to pension & welfare benefits sought by Walker in his bill. The governor’s response was “nothing doing.” He wants the whole kit and kaboodle – the end of the collective bargaining rights of the public unions.

As noted in my earlier post, this is, indeed, the first shot in the final battle to end unionism in America.

And to the Koch brothers, crawl back into the hole you came out of. We don't want you here destroying Wisconsin.

Governor Walker and all you other government officials: When you allow us to cut your pay, pensions, wasteful perks and cadillac medical insurance plans, then we can talk! Until then, quit trying to kill everyone's livelyhood! And quit giving our money to BIG MONEY by giving them more tax cuts.

King-"Maybe you would see them holding up their end of the offer if Walker were even willing to consider his"- Maybe it's me, but you kind of shoot down your own arguement.

I do agree with you that the unions should grab for everything they can now. That way, when collective bargaining is removed from the repair bill, and massive cuts clobber local communities and property taxes are frozen for two years, these unions can put up or shut up. They then have a choice; reopen the contracts they just settled and take fewer benefits or as is usually the case with senior union members, "Screw the new people."

If I was in a private sector union, I'd watch out, because they're next.

Amen, King Rizzo! That's what's so frustrating. He says it's an economic issue when CLEARLY it's not because they've conceded to the economic conditions. It's all about busting the unions, no matter what Walker says.

I have read a lot of bad arguments over the last couple weeks, but the worst yet are the ones saying that unions aren't willing to make concessions because there are contracts getting rushed around the state.
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The unions are saying go ahead and legislate what we can get paid, but leave us the right to bargain. We won't complain as long as we have the right to bargain for working conditions. In the mean time, local governments are helping to get contracts done because they know it's best for their situation as well, but because the unions haven't proactively taken the cuts before they are legislated, they're accused of not being genuine in their offers. What a load of bull. Maybe you would see them holding up their end of the offer if Walker were even willing to consider his.

Yet another poll that shows Walker is overeaching, this time by Republican leaning Rasmussen Reports.

"A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Wisconsin voters shows that just 39% favor weakening collective bargaining rights and 52% are opposed."
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c...

Thank you tamrlu, the petty name calling on here gets no one anywhere. I have been amused by some peoples arguments on here that have no base to them and just end with the name calling, it makes them look ignorant, I'm not calling them ignorant, it just makes them look that way. I only hope that the higher powers in our States Government can come to an agreement soon so we can begin to fix this gigantic mess that we are ALL in together......

Zoom, Thats not the link that it came from but yes it is the same argument here as well..... So do you agree or disagree? Or are you one of those people that just hunt down articles and statements but not read them while your there????

doc0430 doesn't have his/her own arguments.
http://www.biztimes.com/blogs/milwaukee-...

Great! I can't wait to see more pro-Walker ads produced by the billionaire, sugar daddy Koch brothers! They're SO effective! If you've drank the kool-aid, that is!

doc- Well thought out arguments. Nice to see intelligent debate instead of name calling and crap.
There is a difference with the New Jersey pensions and the Wisconsin pensions. Our pension fund has $80 Billion. The NJ pension fund has not been paid by the state for years. It is negative nearly $57 Billion. The taxpayers that work for the state pay all the same taxes that anyone else does. The state paid their pensions starting under Tommy T as it was cheaper to pay pension than wages. The same with health insurance. Just sayin', it isn't their fault that the state made those offers. Would have been rather ignorant for them to not agree to that. As for the unions causing a stranglehold on the state...in the last 2 contracts the state asked for pay freezes and increased pension and insurance payments, and a 3.2% pay decrease due to furloughs- all agreed to. I cannot say that I know what the teachers contracts are like, I do know that they are nothing like an actual state contract. Their contracts are with the individual school boards. I continue to ask the question, and perhaps you have the answer. Do people really think that their taxes are going to go down by taking away from the employees? If someone is not a public employee, what actually is coming out of their personal pocket? What pain is being shared? Just wondering.

If we allow ourselves to be fooled into believing that the unions, after years of doing otherwise, will voluntarily give up the concessions needed to balance our budget, we will fall flat on our backs as the unions run away with the ball.

Unions are not solely to blame for the predicament of unsustainable benefit costs. Elected officials and boards who blindly give in to every union demand - without considering the consequences on taxpayers - share the blame. This was most recently on display when the Milwaukee Area Technical College Board, with some members flying into town at the last minute, rushed to approve a union contract before Gov. Walker's proposal would be approved.

Furthermore, we cannot fault unions for asking for the moon during negotiations. After all, they are paid by their members to get the best deal. But at what point do we draw the line between what unions want and what we can afford?

Do we continue to raise bus fares, cut routes and otherwise make it more difficult for our citizens to get to school, jobs and shops, all so that county employees can continue to have the best health plan money can buy and pay next to nothing for it? Do we continue to raise property taxes on seniors and others living on fixed incomes so that county employees can have a guaranteed pension plan and pay little or nothing toward it? Do we continue to privatize county jobs and throw dedicated public employees on the unemployment rolls because their union bosses refuse to make county jobs more affordable?

For decades, the collective bargaining process in Wisconsin - favoring unions - has forced taxpayers to shoulder the burden through tax increases and service cuts. Walker's proposed collective bargaining reforms will level the playing field. They are desperately needed and must be passed.

State employee unions have agreed to pay a bit more toward their pension and health care costs, so why do we need to rein in collective bargaining?

First, we must remember that the 5.8% pension and 12.6% health care concessions the governor asked for only apply to state workers. Without the accompanying collective bargaining reforms, Milwaukee County has no guarantee of achieving similar savings from its unions. In fact, based on past experience, the county is unlikely to achieve any concessions whatsoever.

In 2009, faced with the possibility of a large year-end deficit, then-County Executive Scott Walker proposed a 35-hour workweek. The unions objected and filed a grievance. In lieu of the shortened workweek, the county then instituted furlough days. Once again, the unions objected and filed a lawsuit.

Both the 2010 and 2011 budgets adopted by the County Board included modifications requiring employees to pay more of their pension and health care costs. To their credit, the non-union employees took these concessions while the unions stonewalled negotiations and refused to partake in any sacrifice.

Now, when I hear unions claim that they are willing to accept concessions, it reminds me of that old Peanuts cartoon where Lucy persuades Charlie Brown to kick the football by promising that she won't remove it at the last minute (despite doing so countless times before). As Charlie runs down the field, sure enough, Lucy grabs the ball and runs away just as he is about to kick it. Once again, Charlie Brown lands flat on his back, with Lucy laughing in the background.

crazycatlady......The collective bargaining concept is the where the problems evolve from. In many cases, both parties at the bargaining table were put there by the unions. The taxpayers(the employer) has no one looking out for their best interests in this case. The Janesville teacher's contract which was passed last week is a perfect example of this.....

Everyone has not agreed to pay their fair share, several school districts and local governments are trying to push through contracts that maintain status quo. Collective bargaining, how's that working for the teachers that received layoff notices, your collective bargaining states last in first out instead of merit or performance.

A fix that will have public employees changing their tunes, tax them for their benefits above and beyond that of the what the average private sector worker pays. Example the vast majority of private sector pays 40-60% of their health care costs (if offered), they pay average of 5-7% into pension (if their company still matches it is average 2-4%). See how quickly the gravy train changes and they are willing to come down to earth and live like everyone else.

Now is the time and place government should operate more like a business than charity. If a business does not operate at a profit, banks will not lend money to continue and before all you place blame I am a long term unemployed person actively seeking employment that WANTS to work. Before being laid off because of economic times, my wages were frozen, company match to 401k was stopped and my contribution to health coverage was increased 9%.

tamrlu, actually your link isn't really off topic here, it's pretty much directly related to whats going on here, and in many other states, if you think for a moment that Gov. Christie by saying that "he loves collective bargaining" that means he's going to let them rob the taxpayers of New Jersey, then thats where the mistake is made by those wondering why Gov. Walker is against them. Neither Governor is going to allow the unions to take advantage of their respected state taxpayers any longer! I suggest everyone reads your link because it is very informative, I think if Governor Walker thought that if the unions would actually play ball here (above and beyond the increased payment of their own pensions and kicking in a still small amount towards their healthcare packages) like the unions are willing to do in New Jersey then he might be willing to concede some of whats in the Budget Repair bill, but past has shown us that the unions here have no problem with breaking the taxpayers proverbial backs like they have for years and years now!
Here is an excerpt from the story on New jersey Governor Christie from the Huffington Post-
I love collective bargaining," Christie told the crowd Wednesday, packed into a room in the municipal building. "I've said let's get rid of civil service and let everything be collectively bargained, as long as collective bargaining is fair, tough, adversarial and there's someone in that room representing you."

After accusing former Gov. Jon Corzine, a Democrat, of being too cozy with the unions, Christie said there would be a different tone this year.

"Let me at them. Get me out of the cage and let me go," Christie said.

The governor also said he wants to roll back a 9 percent pension increase signed into law a decade ago by former Republican Gov. Donald DiFrancesco, who was in the audience at Wednesday's meeting.

DiFrancesco said Christie is right.

"Things are different now, and it's choking the system," he said. "He needs to do something dramatic."

Do you think that the State of Wisconsin public unions would roll back pensions benefits that they were already given even if it meant helping the states budget problems and possibly help their fellow taxpayers? Heck no! Whats happening out in New Jersey is something that began more than a year ago, and Christie has that state moving in the right direction, it may take a while here at home though, lets see how long it takes the fugitives in Illinois to return to their elected jobs. When it comes down to it, they are holding the rest of the state hostage by not coming back and doing their jobs! Its costing the taxpayers money everyday while this hangs out their waiting to be completed. Anyone that thinks that the Democratic Senators are doing the right thing has no conscience either.....

Joel_Rodgers, I don't believe that you aren't a paid troll, but we just went through that with Rahm Emanuel. There is a difference between BEING someplace and RESIDING there, and the actions you take that show intent make all the difference.

Hmmm, gee, just take out the provision about collective bargaining being taken away. Everyone has already agreed to pay the extra costs for health insurance & retirement. Seems pretty simple to me. Little pouty boy Walker just needs to remove that from his budget repair bill as it really has no immediate fiscal impact anyway & can always be negotiated later. He just refuses to budge because he sees himself as some heroic historic figure who is going to take down the unions & his shiny bald spot will be considered a halo forever.

Just have to agree... Walker is going to get a ton of votes next election. This is the best Gov this state has ever seen.

Here's my compromise! Pass the bill without them! If they don't want to help save the state money then to heck with them! Oh' that wasn't a compromise? Hmm oh' well! Don't worry, I think you'll be surprised at the support Walker has come election time. :)

A little off subject, but something Walker should pay attention to:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/03...

"Walker [must figure] out how to pay for the state's Medicaid bills when the program runs out of money sometime in May . . . federal law would prevent the state from cutting off services to . . . people who depend on the program."

Something tells me that Walker will find a way to cut off Medicaid recipients. He loves wielding the budget knife.

During the stalemate, the governor has issued a number of threats and ominous deadlines trying to force Democrats to return.
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Threats and ominous deadlines: the only tools Walker has in his toolbox. How pathetic. One thing is certain: teabaggers are going to get spanked in the next election. Hurry, 2012!

joel- there are several states that they can drive across the border of and break your argument.

Why doesn't Walker just take the Democrats family members hostage? It appears that he will stop at nothing trying to get what he wants.