"The Wisconsin Republican Party, the operative said, was not lending resources to the recall campaign groups had launched against Democratic Senators, in turn causing those groups to narrow their target list down from eight lawmakers to just three." - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/16...

--mouse (so apt) we should have many recall elections--maybe a couple of more dems can bite the dust and Wisconsin will have enough senators with guts to have a quorum w/o them--in some organizations desertion in time of conflict has some serious consequences--and the populace doesn't praise the deserters--

CEO's should receive a fair salary. Any company that pays its CEO 6.4 million is not being fair to their workers or the citizens of the states where they are located when they not only asked their workers to take a cut in pay, they threatened to move out of state if they didn't get tax breaks. CEO pay should be limited when that salary is made on the backs of everyone else and hurts the economy as a whole. I don't want to hear the tired old argument "that is what they have to pay to get good managemnet." B.S.!!! I believe very competent people could be found for 1 -2 million a year.

yada
Mar 15, 2011 at 9:35 a.m.
Suggest removal
unitedwisconsin.com -->Recall petition for Walker - as of March 14th at 6pm - almost 156,000 have signed the recall petition.
A lot more coming.... can't beleive how many said they voted for him, only to find he is a born liar.
Tick, tick, tick,

916WI...the same as yours?

Unless you were a Harley stockholder, why would the CEO's salary matter to you? The guy is responsible for making decisions that directly affects the direction of company that has billions in net sales worldwide. What do you think his salary should be?

stinkybstrd10......Just because 1% of the workforce has a sleepover in the most liberal city in our state where the activities involve stomping around, waving little signs around and screaming their heads off like little 3 year olds.......hardly makes them the "majority" in the state......

http://www.channel3000.com/news/27200075...
The CEO of Harley-Davidson gets 6.4 million pay package for only 8 months of work? And this doesn't make you repubs mad? You like being poor or what? Fat cats getting richer in Wisconsin, and thanks to Walker they'll get even fatter while the rest of us apply for welfare.

RECALL!!!!

Thank you so much to the Republican and Tea Party supporters for rallying the working peoples party together and making us Democrats that much more united. Governor Walker has sealed the fate of the republican party in this state. He will be reminded that the Republican party is the minority party in this country. Our voices are strong, we are united, we will win. Thank you Fab 14, for doing exactly what I and many elected you to do.

unitedwisconsin.com -->Recall petition for Walker - as of March 14th at 6pm - almost 156,000 have signed the recall petition.

Greatplain.......Absolutely correct--Elections do have results.....The population witnessed a billion or so in tax increases and funds raided that should have been protected. They witnessed the Democrats go on a spending spree that left the citizens of this state with nothing but more debt. In turn, the elections did have results. They gave Walker and his agenda the support within the legislature to get it implemented as is--without having the democrats corrupt it. Thank God that elections have results:)

I wonder if all the Republi-baggers would be upset if the proposed Dem recall efforts were spearheaded by some out of state group....oh wait, it is:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/512905...

You're right, 916WI. The Dems did what they had to. Democracy isn't pretty! Elections DO have results. : )

916, that IS democracy. It's not neat, it's not pretty and it doesn't end when you cast your vote at the ballot box, and it certainly doesn't end when elected officials pass legislation. If the Repubs were so incensed at Doyles legislation, where was the outcry? There was little or none. Why? Because the Repubs knew that any election was going hinge on the economy alone, not tax increases, not progressive legislation, not the tired liberal vs. Conservative line, and it didn't. Hence Walker framing the union bill in terms of balancing a budget and getting the economy going, when moderate voices on both sides know that the public unions are not the villain, but who wants to listen to moderate voices?

Wally......There is no doubt that passing a billion dollars with tax increases in 24 hours with no public hearings to the objection of EVERY Republican along with the illegal raiding of any solvent fund was done in bad faith. Everytime the majority party passes legislation that the minority strongly disagrees with, they are expected to stomp around, screaming "RECALL" though--That's your definition of democracy??? Seriously??? If that was the case Wisconsinites would be at the polls more than they would be at home...The Republicans seemed to have acted better than that, the democrats have obviously not........

916,
A fair question, but if the Republicans felt the tax increases were done in bad faith, they certainly should have organized their own recall campaigns. Such a thing never occurred as far as I know. That is the big difference between that bit of legislation and the trampling of democracy we have witnessed in the past few weeks.

Fred-up: well said.

HLMencken: Wow! I just read about the real H.L. Mencken, and was suprised he was quite a leftist...and a sophisticated name caller. Either way the election turns out, my kids don't call names like you do.
The real HL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._L._Menck...

--the real issue here isn't about bargaining, teachers, students, etc., etc. it is simply about those that can never accept the results of an election unless it is the outcome they wanted (note the posts about doyle, clinton) if it hadn't of been this it would have been something else. we have legal avenues for elections, appealing a law, another election, etc. we do not--repeat, do not--have legal avenues for death threats, boycotts, attempts to shut down legislative action, fleeing the state to avoid our sworn duty, defacing property, etc. these protest participants are supposedly highly educated--maybe so, but in many respects they are ignorant--no common sense, no respect for law, no sense of decency. society would be better off without these whiners

donnaw: Thanks for the lecture, but I did vote. I was just pointing out that the voice of the people wasn't as "loud and clear" as you make it out to be.

Well said JW. It's far more than a union/non union, us/against them issue. FAR more important. Very few realize what freedoms they are about to give up. Read the actual bill everyone. And as they saying goes......"follow the money"

There you have it...go to the polls next time...LEGALLY PLEASE...with your ID in hand and vote, I will abide by the elections and their elected officials, otherwise how about you just go to work like the rest of us, the only reason you don't have us at your protests is we Tea Baggers, GOPrs etc see no purpose in it, it does no good othe than to grand stand...like you protesters

Wally.....Your comment, "Just look at the giant soiled pile the Republican$ have turned democracy into" should also reference the democrats version of democracy. A billion dollars worth of tax increases pushed through in under 24 hours with no public hearings, burning through tens of millions of dollars of federal stimulus dollars, raiding every fund that had a positive balance and then spending it all like drunken sailors........If I had to choose between one or the other, Walker's version would have my support every day of the week and twice on Sunday......

Mouse-citing the Huffintonpost. Now that's a real unbiased source--not!

Thank you people with hearts who actually support your firefighters, police, nurses, teachers, farmers, and workers and thank you senators who left the state in order to PROTECT your constituents and ALLOW us-the people- time to compromise and process all of these changes. I knew this was going to be passed no matter how many mean and nasty insults republican private sector employees spout out to their families, their friends, and anonymously through newspaper blogs.

it is sad when good hard working people are told they are no longer invited to the table to discuss their work environment....but you republicans are used to it, so why should anybody else be allowed in the office to discuss their own career!!???their own safety! their own pensions! their own health care! Gosh we can't have that now can we? Not in AMerica!!

fred_up....you cite The National Review, one of the most far right conservative magazines, as being a reputable source for determining that Polticafact is a biased site!!!!!! Another poster questioned the neutrality of some of the fact finding sites I use, but offered no suggestions for another unbiased site that may be used. The 3 main sites I use have all recieved awards for their work and have been proven to be objective. John McCain serves on the board of projectvotesmart. I wasn't trying to "impress" anyone with quoting poltifact, just showing it was not just my opinion. I've noticed that many conservatives have a problem with these sites. Could it be that they disprove the right wing propogana that you have been spoon fed and blindly follow?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Sna...
Hope you are all comfortable, with this toasty deal by Walker?

Elections do have results. In the case of last November's elections the result is more elections. Recall elections, that is. See you at the polls in July folks and again in early 2012. For those of you that failed to turn out in November, I hope you see what your inaction (or perhaps apathy) has led to. You must realize that democracy is like doing the dishes or the laundry. It is a process that has no end. You have to keep doing it. Just look at the giant soiled pile the Republican$ have turned democracy into because so many were comfortable that it was already done.

Question.... Where do Corporations from other states put there money?
Question.... Why do they they send jobs to China and alike (sweat shop style)
Question.... Will they need to send sweat jobs to China when Walker gets his way? Well?
Question..... So you want everyone treated like a migrant worker?
Question.... Who's gonna buy anything, with part time wages?
Question.... How much did the likes of Koch contribute to Wisconsin?
(I don't mean Walker)
Question...... How much do the likes of Koch accumulate in wealth/money every year from Wisconsin?

wando: how do you suppose we go about "electing" our leaders? A drawing? Eeny, meeny, minny, moe? Scissors, paper, rock? I don't care how many come out to vote: if you don't vote, we can't drag you out! Those that care, vote. Those that don't, don't care or have some other excuse.

The Phil Hands cartoon in the Gazette March 14th is ridiculous. All of the public employees are taxpayers too, paying their taxes and funding themselves now. The pension is part of their pay. They are taking pay cuts to fund their pensions. If boards didn't want to fund it, they can work to get rid of them. However, our pension system works and is a model for the rest of the country.
By the way, pensions weren't a problem until the economy went south and the private industry gave up their pensions. So when times are good, bring them back right?
We'll see what else Scotty can do to mess up the state with the junk in his brown bag.

Let's take a look at those public sector workers: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su4PwZCWU...)

donnaw: Winning by 125,000 votes with a low voter turnout is hardly a "loud and clear" voice of the people. I'll be happy when this schmuck is recalled.

This story is so true. Thank you Governor Walker. Thanks for motivating an apathetic voting base, and getting more Independents and Republicans voting for labor rights in the future.

Where were all of you when Obama PUSHED the healthcare bill through so quickly? Where were all of you when the former govenor raised taxes? Some of you felt that this past December. I spoke when I voted. DEAL WITH IT. Where is the outrage at death threats to ANYONE, Democrat or Republican? Grow up. Adjust your budget like I had to when Doyle was in office and MOVE ON.

We already had the fight at the polls--it was last November and the people spoke--loud and clear. "Elections have results--deal with it!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbwMPzbzV...

Fantasy is what the dems have been living in the last 8 years.

Obama will also be out in 2012.

"It will be even funnier when the GOP gets reelected."

It must be fun living in a fantasy world.

It will be even funnier when the GOP gets reelected.

The liberals will say that the election was fixed etc. etc. etc.

http://www.alec.org/AM/Template.cfm?Sect...

Check this out! This should not be legal! The corporations and legislators are circumventing disclosure laws so the corporations can literally WRITE THE LAWS! And their agenda is clearly described on their website!

Sorry it's K for Karl I was thinking C for communism.

Newglass sounds like Carl Marx.

I found out how the corporations write the legislation and don't have to disclose as lobbying when they do it! It's called ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council) and they host conferences, invite legislators and corporate hosts to sit down and write "model legislation". Most of these "models" are taken back to the states and proposed by the legislators almost verbatim. Very secretive and under the radar as congress members don't have to tell who sponsored them or who they worked with, just that they attended "ALEC" and got a "scholarship" to attend.
"ALEC's mission statement is to advance the Jeffersonian principles of free markets, limited government, federalism, and individual liberty, through a non-partisan, public-private partnership between America’s state legislators and concerned members of the private sector, policy experts and the general public."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Le...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...

"I know you are, but what am I?" Geez.

According to the JBJM poll: 98% of the population thinks scott walker is a political puppet for the GOP who will be panhandling for a career when the GOP dumps him after his recall.

Any farmers reading this should note that John Deere and Co out of Moline IL is on the Walker donor list. They gave the candidate $7000. This is not a dealer donation but a corporate donation. Other big corp contributors were Eli Lilly, $10,000 and ATT WI employees PAC, $10,000, WI Denatal Assoc, $29,000, Koch Industries $43,000.

Mudsill, yes I realize what I'm typing, but I can understand why you are having trouble with it. Using something you typed earlier explains your problem with it - "It takes time to make people stupid. We're there." Something tells me you're on the fast track.

Mudsill, regardless of your political views/opinions, which we all have a right to, you really should respect your elders! Shame on you for the way you spoke to cactusjack! He has a right to his opinion, just as you.

Is this really the way we're all going to live now? Fighting against each other?

RAF - the selling of the items you listed is not nearly as important as the way they want to go about selling them. Just because you are not "twisted up" about these particular items doesn't mean you shouldn't care about the how and the what of the methods they want to use to accomplish their goals. Also, I should think you might be concerned about more than just what "twists you up." The military has strategies that sometimes take out smaller, less significant targets just to make it easier to take bigger ones later. You don't think politicians do the same? I hope you'll look at the bigger picture and not isolate only on what you think is good for you. After all, that seems to be the very thing so many posters were saying about the "anti-bill" crowd, that they only cared about themselves. You're not like that are you? How about it?

I suggest that all of you go to "Media Trackers" web site. There is a Article "WHAT REALLY IN THOSE UNION CONTRACTS"? This was dated Feb.17,2011. I for one are sick and tired of supporting these sweet deals that are negotiated. Isupport Gov.Walker if this is true, anyway this has to stop. the bottom line the state is broke along with 42 other states. I also do not support those people who walked off their jobs. If the Dem. party wants to sue so be it BRING IT ON! the people will support Gov. Walker in the long run, but I think if more voters see what the bill is, he will gain support. As I will say to those people who want to support those Dem's who fled the state, there the ones who didnot do their jobs, all I ask that they stay back and discuss and vote I don't care if they voted yes or no BUT DISCUSS AND VOTE. that according to me is very sad!

Those that think social security is anything like communism, has no idea what communism is.

--onedayatatime--are you trying to impress us with quoting politifact?? Have you read anything about them? One of the gentler comments about them (National Review) states "Politifact has completely lost its bearings and is rapidly becoming a discredited, leftist mouthpiece"--like most lefties, you pick and choose your sources--give it up--the election is over

Wow! You folks in Wisconsin really have it tough. Maybe you should get older and try to live on social security and watch your Medicare cost more each month from an all ready dwindling check. You don't get much sympathy from most of us of the older generation. You are all working and collecting a check and complaining about the increase in your insurance payments, for shame!

Oh Mud you're just trying to be incendiary now.

Communism:A society where the people without regards to class, own and operate all businesses and factors of production. Central government planning determines what goods and services satisfy citizens' needs, how the goods and services are produced and how they are distributed.(Business; Ferrell, Hirt and Ferrill 2009)
I don't believe we are any where near that form of government, neither newglasses or I are advocating such a system.

Mudsill - Does that include your socialist union bosses??
Aren't socialists political? See if you can connect the dots.

So what has Scott Walker ever lied about???
___
_
-
-
Dead silence in the room because Scott Walker has never lied about one thing.
Here we go again, either you are refusing to acknowledge facts, or you are choosing to continue spewing misleading rhectoric.

Cass..."Has anyone noticed Scott Walker has never lied about one thing." Cass, it is so easy to inform yourself.
Per politifact.com
After reviewing 9 pages of comments, those made by Walker:
True = 3
Half True = 2
Mostly True = 3
Barely True = 6
False = 10
Pants on fire lie = 1
One of the comments rated FALSE "In Wisconsin, 98 percent of all small businesses will qualify for income-tax relief under my plan, freeing them to expand and create jobs."
Look for yourself.
http://politifact.com/wisconsin/statemen......

"Mud, the scary thing is that this tax and redistribute solution is not just acceptable to just Newglasses. It is what half the liberal posters really would like. They just dont want to admit it."
I will admit it as loudly as I can. Return the tax rate to what it was under President Clinton 39% (when there was a Republican Congress BTW). President Clinton raised taxes in 1993, the economy went from 111 million jobs in August of that year to 129 million jobs 6 years later—an increase of 16.2 %, and more than three times better than under the Bush tax cuts.
Congressional Budget Office’s March report entitled, “An Analysis of the President’s Budgetary Proposals for Fiscal Year 2011.”
At the beginning of 2002, debt was $3.3 trillion four months after President Bush signed the first package of tax cuts into law. In 2008 debt passed $5 trillion. The Bush tax cuts have directly added $2.5 trillion to the national debt in the 10 years that they have been law. The middle class is now being asked to pay for the $690 billion in tax breaks for the rich or we find $690 billion in spending cuts. And that means increased interest on the debt. With the cost of interest, the tax cuts for the wealthy increases by almost $140 billion. Keeping those cuts for the rich will cost almost $830 billion over the next 10 years. $830 billion is enough to pay for all veterans’ hospitals, doctors, and the rest of the Veteran’s Affairs health system, plus the United States Coast Guard, plus the FDA, plus the operation and maintenance of every single national park for the entire 10-year period—with more than $100 billion left over.
Mudsill…learn the definition of Communism.

nomoreres what you claim as a power grab I am not twisted up over. Selling state land to me is not a power grab. Offloading power plants that don’t meet current EPA guidelines to operate is not a power grab. I’ve not been a fan of the two party system for years, no matter how much I don’t like it, it is what it is. Meaning, I can either run away because I don’t like it or use my rights to voice my opinion and contact my representatives about things I agree and disagree with. In the end our form of government is representative. By voting you grant others to do these things for you. You can attempt to change their mind, in the end it is still their choice.

RAF - And you don't think granting those very politicians more power won't have a negative effect (regardless of party affiliation)? If you don't think they'll opt for all the power they can grab then I believe you're in for a rude awakening. Too much power in anyone's hands is not a good thing. This budget repair bill was nothing if not a power grab. It still amazes me that people would think that one person could have all the right answers (without negotiating anything) in that bill that contained numerous power grabs. You seem too intelligent to have been lulled into that. It's a shame that it will take so long to undo some of these atrocities. I still have faith that enough people will ultimately see the light and remove the power brokers (both political and corporate) from their positions of influence.

Amen, Packolies.

I still think that if he is trying to emulate Ronad Regan, he should have taken better lessons and for someone who has tried to walk in his father's footsteps by having a shoulder for the people,as his father did and "listening" to the people as his father did, Mr. Walker had better turn up his hearing aid and check with dad how he did it. Or even hand him a mirror and let him look into it and profess "I created this mess". It's most interesting what money will buy.

what has he ever lied about?? how about we can not split the bill up to get rid of the collective barganing clause. Oopps I guess they could after all for there backdoor move.
A better question would be what has he ever told the truth about..

An interesting read.

http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Coll...

Private employed people in this state have those rights. The bargaining limit pertains to public unions only, no different than more than 20 other states or the federal government.

RetiredAirForce, That may be true, but if that speech was for "freedom around the world", isn't Wisconsin and other states in the U.S. included in that freedom? I would think and hope so.

Ladybug, do you know what country the president was talking about when he said that? Poland. He was addressing freedom around the world, the same freedom people have in this country to organize. Interestingly his term as president occurred after carter, the person that removed collective bargaining rights from federal workers, yet people today have no problem with that and federal workers are treated just fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn28oayX3...

Mouse are you gracing the pages with your intellect again? Did you mean to say "People with any SENSE will ignore RetiredAirForce."

Mouse are you still afraid to debate the issues?

I find it most interesting that for someone, Scott Walker, who professes to think so highly of Ronald Regan, has forgotten what Mr. Regan had to say on Sept. 1, 1980..I quote "Where free unions and collective bargining are forbidden, freedom is lost" What a hypocrit!

People with any sence will ignore RetiredAirForce. The argument he puts up shows he is either leaching from ma and pa or just wants to play with you on here like a video game. Kinda like Walker!!!
(RetiredAirForce) just wants someone to play with, so just ignore him and he will go home.

youkillme how do you cut money in a district but not from the largest piece of the pie, personnel costs?

"Again... the money didn't 'diappear'... the top echelon took it in 2008."
-
Wow.

Money is not a fixed pot, the economy is continually expanding. Your example leaves the impression that a dollar someone else has is the reason you don't have it. Your point of view is skewed.

The Janesville teacher's union did not refuse to take the cuts. They refused to open the contract under Walker's regime - way different.

Well, I've expressed my views. Have to move on. Judging by all of the name calling, my claims have obviously struck a chord with some of the top 5% present on this forum. I will leave you now to digress with more basesless claims and trash talk from the right. I apologize for posing such a threat to your way of life.

nomoreres that was addressing having the tax laws changed.

Re: RAF "Since politicians control the tax law, and with that the power, things won’t change." You state this and yet seem to want Walker to have even more power? Usually I can at least understand your reasoning even if I don't agree with it, but this?

Clarity... You had a reputation for civil discourse. I'm disappointed.

RAFsaid -- "You have still not provided what your plan to fix the budget issues are. I understand you don't like the current one, what would you do to fix it?" ----------- The Wisconsin legislature is now full of low-wage tea-bag conservatives who campaigned and won as "cutters" and "savers." I want to know what each tea bagger legislator is willing to sacrifice to balance the budget. It's time for Knilans, Wynn, Kedzie, Loudenback, August and the rest to show us why they were elected and what their districts are willing to sacrifice. If this were really about the budget and equal sacrifice, Walker would have sat down in every Assembly and Senate member's office and laid down what the goal is and ask how much THEIR district can pledge towards reducing state aid, and how long those sacrifices will be needed to remain in place. Knilans could walk into the county building and demand $4 million in cuts. That's what they were elected to do. $10 million from each assembly district would add up to almost a billion. Instead Walker and the rest of cowards attack the middle-class employee unions, education and health care coverage for the working poor. Conservatives? Not. Phonies and cowards? Absolutely!

Mudsill... your name calling is baseless and spiteful. Typical of Tea Party instigation. To dismiss your claims, I had it out with the communist party when they showed up in Madison. No marxist communism exists in the world for a reason. I am simply anti-plutocracy. You know, the type of 'communism' exhibited currently in Russia and China. Others on this forum actually offer discussion points... sometimes heated... rarely cited... but at least they are interesting.

DanGleesac - I've known you for a long time and you are not a hard worker - slacker would fit the bill. (Especially in school - lol)Still a nice guy though.

--and jesse jackson, that perfect example of morality, can take time away from being with his mistress, to come all the way to madison--or did he bring her along??

Cass said -- "Example the Janesville Teachers Union claimed they were going to take these cuts, and pension costs publicly. Then it was reported later the Janesvilles Teacher Union refused to take the cuts when it can to the table."----------The bold faced, non-negotiable, non-compromising and unrepentant Scott Walker is to blame for the teachers unwillingness to re-open the contracts for re-negotiation. Why should anyone re-negotiate when he wouldn't. They should be honored for their "leadership" like he is.

RAF... you are a master of spinning rhetoric. I have to grant you that. I offer the following documents to support my claim of concentration of wealth in America:
-------------
"PRESENT LAW AND HISTORICAL OVERVIEW OF THE FEDERAL TAX SYSTEM" - Joint commitee on taxation.
http://www.jct.gov/publications.html?fun...
------------
"The Securities Industry" - New York Comptroller report on Wall Street profits
http://osc.state.ny.us/osdc/rpt10-2011.p...
-----------
"Recent Trends in Household Wealth in the United States" Levy Economics Institute of Bard College
http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp_589...
-----------
Again... the money didn't 'diappear'... the top echelon took it in 2008. The Middle Class will only stop footing the bill for this greed when we collectively decide to stop. I have experienced a downward spiral in compensation for years. Driving down my neighbors' wages is not the solution. Take back the tax breaks... remove all subsidies.

newglasses, I agree corporate tax breaks are as bad as personal tax breaks, I think there should be a flat tax and no deductions; at the state and federal level. Since politicians control the tax law, and with that the power, things won’t change. You can sit there and try to blame Wisconsin’s problem on Wall Street, but that doesn’t excuse the people that spent more government money than was collected. It is not that hard to figure it out.

You have still not provided what your plan to fix the budget issues are. I understand you don't like the current one, what would you do to fix it?

"The money is still there, folks. It did not evaporate. It was 're-distributed' otherwise known as 'concentrated'. Again, if you support this bill, you either benefit from the concentration of wealth or you blindly follow false rhetoric."
-
What?

How do you not understand the next budget will be less than than the last precisely because there is a missing ~800 million in stimulus dollars that was included in the current budget. The money is not there, ignoring the truth is ignorant.

"newglasses what you are essentially saying is you don't want to fix the budget, why is that?"
------------------
Wrong, RAF... again you employ the tea party filter. The money is has been concentrated in the top 5%. Go get it. The Middle Class has already taken the hit. The large corporations and private banks took the money from Wall Street to create this crisis. I certainly disagree with the tax breaks that Walker granted in January. 90% of tax payers will certainly see no benefit... we, instead, will pay for the breaks. And, while we're at it, why do we subsidize GE, Exxon, Shell and so many other companies with billions of tax dollars per year while they report record profits?

newglasses every law or bill has political motivation behind it; they are politicians. That is not news unless people think otherwise.

Why does the right not discuss the fact that Fitz admitted to FOX that the bill was for political gain in the 2010 election? Specifically, he claimed that the measures in the bill would prevent Obama from carrying WI.
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/0...

newglasses what you are essentially saying is you don't want to fix the budget, why is that?

Wouldn't this be a hoot. If the recall goes to the Democrats. Then like Illinois Democrats raid the teacher retirement fund, and stop contributions! Remember when WI dems raided the Medical Malpractice Fund in 2007-2008, and now we have to pay back $200 million.

"Matter cannot be created nor destroyed-but in the union world, money magically appears!"
-------------------
The money is still there, folks. It did not evaporate. It was 're-distributed' otherwise known as 'concentrated'. Again, if you support this bill, you either benefit from the concentration of wealth or you blindly follow false rhetoric.

--the one sane being was the donkey--

"You are not alone in the loss. That is the main reason government spending needs to decline, people like you and I are making less so we pay less in taxes. If the government gets less it should also pay less. Why is that not right?"
---------------------
Glad to see you do not support the corporate tax breaks either... LOL. I maintain that workers' wages are not the source or the solution to the 'financial crisis'. Wall Street and major corporations created this issue. It cannot be solved on the backs of labor. Again, productivity gains and profits are at record levels. Leave labor alone. We are already doing our part.

"The unions said they would pay the money, but not to take away their rights to collectively bargain."
-
They did say that, while at the same time signing new contracts around the state without the same pledge. Saying one thing while doing another is hardly a truthful pledge. The dem senators also could have had a deal that left more collective bargaining rights but turned it down.

"I like how you placate yourself by living in the illusion that its all about the money. Whatever helps you sleep at night."
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What illusion would that be? Please try to be specific to explain your claims.

fred up one sane being,being who?

RAF - so, you are still misinformed- one part of this is money, but what about the rest? The unions said they would pay the money, but not to take away their rights to collectively bargain. I like how you placate yourself by living in the illusion that its all about the money. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Cass that sounds exactly like walkers plan with the back door taxation..

Yep, just like the new 4K school program. Now we don't have to raise our kids! We can do it with the teachers and cost more doing it! Yea! Social programs are awesome. NOT! Badger care takes care of farmers? What about the thousands of people who literally live in and out of the criminal world who use the hell out of the badger care system? Let's keep it Walker, but lets redefine who gets the benny from it.

What a bunch of hippo crates! preach and teach democracy, majority rules, etc., until it affects you personally and then screw democracy. It's all fine and dandy when the other guy is getting it from behind, but whoa not me...I'm special with special treatment. Makes me sick. Rot you thugs!

--obvious misprint--should say 85-100,000 donkeys, 50 tractors and one sane being--

Teachers are my heroes. They believe in teaching sex education to 1st graders ! ! !

They also believe in teaching about Adam and Steve ! ! !

Republicans are naughty and I am ENTITLED to my bargaining. It's a RIGHT and I'm ENTITLED ! ! !

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ! ! ! BOO HOO HOO ! ! !

I don't like you tax payers ! ! !

Every post on here I don't like is paid for by the Koch brothers ! ! !

WHAAAAAAAAAAAA ! ! ! BOO HOO HOO ! ! !

I am not uninformed and you are on a tangent. I was also referring to your generalizations, not your personal budget. I am referring to the general stance of strife vs. entitlement. I don't think you are a dick, just uniformed yourself. I would leave the job, but I have a sick sense of duty to it, and I am not in a position to lose what little bit I have established now. (hindsite sucks) Furthermore, collective bargaining has not helped the conditions or the atmosphere of my job, but I am at ease with the income. Does anyone ever really examine the term of "collective bargaining"? It is a term which causes more separation than unity in my book.

Dan do you know where money is spent in the state budget? 55%, the largest portion goes for local assistance; county and city govt plus school districts. 19% is aide to people like badger care and medicaid. 8% to universities. 7% to corrections. The remaining ~ 11% is for running the state and paying for state employees.

The largest portion of all local govt spending is for employees. If you can't cut money from the largest slice of the pie where can you cut money from?

RAF the left believes in 'magic'! Matter cannot be created nor destroyed-but in the union world, money magically appears! There is no equal sign in the middle-MAGIC! Economics? What's that?

Truecitizen: I am exactly where I am today because I worked my ass off to get there. Budget better? You don't know me. That's like me saying you should have worked harder not to get that crappy job. I wouldn't say that because I’m not a dick. Working conditions is directly associated with collective bargaining. If you don't realize that you’re uninformed. By the way nobody in my union is getting any fat cat payrolls. That sounds like you might get fox news to. If you don't like your job quit. I’m sure somebody out there would love to have a job. Peace

By the way, I don't believe in party line politics it is stupid. My view points tend to lean conservative. I only view myself as a realist. If I truly believed the unions were correct, I would have joined the mass. But I chose to be a thinker-not a lemming. My status as a government union emplyee should be self-evident that I am following my heart and not a group of self-interest lobbyists (either side).

Dan, given up raises to keep other payments low is still an income increase. I don’t begrudge people from making more money that is not the issue. Where this ties in, the people discussed in this debate are paid, in some part via the state budget; that can’t be separated. The majority of most county, district, and city budgets are personnel costs, when state share funding is reduced if these costs can’t be adjusted or controlled what are the local governments to do? The same reason the state has less money to spend is the exact reason property owners have less money to spend for taxes; it all comes from the same pile, the tax payers.

You can fight all you want for higher wages but where does the money come from? The problem with this fight is ignoring the tax payer. I agree that our tax system for the state and the federal government is broken. If I could wave a wand I would set a flat tax with no deductions and no tax credits; not all want that or would be happy with it. What can be done right now is slow the spending and the rate of spending growth. Once the budget becomes more balanced, debt load reduced, spending levels can increase to meet tax revenue. The mistake would be to once again increase spending beyond the revenue.

You can feel victimized if you want, but this is not a personal issue of one worker against the other or union against non-union. This is simply a spending vs revenue adjustment that is long overdue.

For those that want to pay more in taxes, there are some that always claim taxes are too low, you can always pay more.

"When private and public sector wages and benefits decrease, so does standard of living. You should be fighting alongside us in getting better wages and benefits for all."
You seem to forget that we live in a global economy now. Private sector unions did make more demands on their employers in an attempt to secure "better wages and benefits for all"--how did their employers respond? Shifted production to developing countries where they would not have to deal with those demands. Obviously public unions are insulated from this outsourcing and seem to fail to recognize because of the private sector job loses and wage reductions there isn't the money to continue financing the benefits and pensions of the public sector that are long since gone in today's private sector....As you said, "life isn't fair"..........

As long as Obama is still in office, imo, the Democrats don't have the chance to reclaim their control of the taxpayers with higher taxes and their renewed fight against life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is Obama that had started the class warfare with his magical number of $250,000 tax increases, bailouts, taxpayer owned car manufacturers, assaults on companies, price fixing student loans that favors the government and the illegal take over of health insurance.

Those sources you point out are obviously conservative, but small beans compared to the majority of the left wing press in this country, and you would be lying not to admitt this.

Yep...and I could insulate my attic with the paper sent to me in the mail by my union, telling me who to vote for and why realists are so bad. Tripe. Lies. Expensive. Unobjective. I see through it all.

It sure is easy to see from the comments on this and past articles which people watch Fox News. School teachers=union thugs, police/firefighters=hippies. The number of people who enthusiastically support the race to the bottom that has been sold to them by union members like Beck, Hannity and O'reilly. Thank you all for the real life SNL skit, I truly am LOL.

Working conditions are not under attack with this bill, these are still what they were. By the way it sucks where I work, and the union has never been in a position to change the thinking of those who run the place! Union failed there! Furthermore your rant about losing pay and bennies----start budgeting better then, because that's what everyone else has had to do with strife in their lives! Much of that strife caused by fatted calfs like the union employees on the tax paid payrolls. I would trade a few bucks a day for better working conditions anyday by the way.

truecitizen: You can't possibly be a union memeber.

Truecitizen: You can't possibly union

Dan you have several loose associations...I will comment on one of them. The teachers are smarter than Walker? Well, I don't think it matters about the education level or particular fields such as Geography, math, science etc. Walker has staff, he has served as a public servant for many years. If you disagree with his policies then fine, but don't compare apples to oranges. I mean, does the State Attorney General know how to operate a squad car and make arrests? Still-if ever? Yet this person directly affects the policies governing the police force. The President directs war ships, but could he operate one? At least my loose associations expose yours! As for the numbers in the work force. The unionized government (especially) workers pay less money to the medical and pensions, in lieu of tax payers. The unions refuse to stop pushing hard against these tax payers. It is no where near equal or apt. Time for all of us to be on the same playing field. By the way the Gazette leans left you idiot.

Truecitizen: If you really are a government employee and union member your nuts. I have an idea. Let’s get our wages reduced, benefits cut and collective bargaining taken away. That way I can raise my family on less income. Have less of a pension when I retire and have no say in my working conditions. If I were RAF I might not want people like you taking sides with me. Then again RAF has over 5,000 pro republican, anti-union blogs. Nobody is changing that guys mind.

RetiredAireForce: You seem to be well versed in these issues. Explain to me where all the money is going. And don't say to public employees/unions. You can't honestly believe state employees are bankrupting this state. Public employee unions have given up raises in order to keep pension and benefits low. In a sense we have been paying all along. What is bad for the state and country is to cut the middle class. When private and public sector wages and benefits decrease, so does standard of living. You should be fighting alongside us in getting better wages and benefits for all. These last few weeks have been nothing more than "I don't have that so nobody should" You need to get a life. If you had one you would realize that life isn't fair. I don't hear anyone bitching about the top 1% making too much money and getting tax breaks. Explain another thing to me. How does a man who has no college education tell thousands of teachers, who have more education than he, you make too much and your benefits are too good? Does any of that make sense to anyone?
P.S. The Janesville Gazette is worthless. The only reason I go onto this site is to read all the nut job republican propaganda.

RAF you are absolutely correct on your assessments. I can't believe people are arguing your points. It goes to show that people will call it whatever, just to stick with their beliefs. This is why things are so hard to change. This is why Walker did not try to "sit down" with anyone before pushing for this bill. RAF, I hope there is a few more sensible people like you who read these articles. I am union and a government employee, and almost all of my fellow workers are supporting these so-called protests. I am not. I am too, ready to take a hit in my wallet for the better of Wisconsin.

HL Mencken: Somebody has been watching too much fox news. Your words speak to your intelligence. I see you blog a lot. Try doing something more beneficial with your time like volunteering. Its people like you whose opinions are laughed at. Get a life.

"The difference is that Unions represent Labor while the GOP represents big business."
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Not true. The unions support mostly democratic candidates while most big business support for candidates is down the middle.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php...

phoenixkid I could give you a number but it is irrelevant. I have stated this many times before; I pay more in federal taxes than I get in a pension. I purchase a private health insurance plan, through my current employer and I don't use the VA. As I said, irrelevant to what is going on in this state.

"Obviously, your wages are unaffected or benefited by the events of the past three years."
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Obviously you are ignorant of the truth. Not only did my investments take a hit so did my salary, yes I do have a full time job. No I don't whine to you over lost income.

"The public sector has been lost wages with furloughs last year."
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As did the private sector, where most of the taxes come from to run this state.

"This year, they lose benefits."
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False. So far they are asked to pay more for the same benefits and they are given the option to pay union dues; a choice not granted before.

"Next year, they lose more benefits and wages (read the school budget stories)."
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They could. Since they can bargain for wages I doubt those will be lost. Please list your claim of what benefits they will lose.

"The private sector is even worse off... I have lost 35% of my wages and all benefits in the past two years despite working more hours and producing record profits. Where does it stop? I apologize for crying. I hope I didn't interrupt your money counting."
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You are not alone in the loss. That is the main reason government spending needs to decline, people like you and I are making less so we pay less in taxes. If the government gets less it should also pay less. Why is that not right?

HL it looks like you need a hug too.

RAF how much is your pension? After 25 years in public service mine will be $760.

jw, everyone in the state is affected by government laws and policy changes. Just 2 short years ago everyone in the state was asked to pay 1.2 billion more in taxes, and the debt spending continued. Where does it end? There are two options, raise more taxes or spend less; yes they could do both but 2 years ago they only did one also.

The wailing of this being done on the backs of labor and children is a scapegoat from reality. The last budget, besides the 1.2 billion in tax increases there was also ~800 million from the federal stimulus plan, the majority of that was spent to secure public sector jobs. That ~800 million is not here for this budget, it must be made up. You might not like the policy, not everyone does, even those that are supporters. Yet something had to be done to keep this state from turning into california or Illinois.

Your claim of more lost freedoms is silly. Fear based with no facts. The budget needed to be fixed, ignoring the truth and making absurd predictions distracts from getting the problem fixed.

"Since public sector union and nonunion salary is not affected, this cry of lower wages is just that, a cry."
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Obviously, your wages are unaffected or benefited by the events of the past three years. The public sector has been lost wages with furloughs last year. This year, they lose benefits. Next year, they lose more benefits and wages (read the school budget stories). The private sector is even worse off... I have lost 35% of my wages and all benefits in the past two years despite working more hours and producing record profits. Where does it stop? I apologize for crying. I hope I didn't interrupt your money counting.

"Yep... remove collective bargaining... whittle away Middle Class at compensation... then try your best to cut the people affected out of the polls because you know you'll never get re-elected. Fitzgerald and Walker are feeling pretty safe with their plan to fleece this state."
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How does protecting voter rights cut legal voters from the polls?

Not only does your non-factual dribble not meet reality it is absolutely absurd. Why do labor people think they are the only middle class? Since public sector union and nonunion salary is not affected, this cry of lower wages is just that, a cry.

Cass; I'd be willing to give you a hug.

Anyone done a poll to see how many women Walker picked on?
Got a feeling you will be shocked at the numbers.

Cass now be a good boy and stop teasing. You know you don't mean it.

newglasses
Mar 13, 2011 at 10:29 a.m.
Suggest removal
"Wow, where are all the thug comments?"
------------------
OK... I'll give you one :)
Dang union thugs... pushing around all of those helpless billionaires... it's just not fair.
Nasty enough? LOL
#2 The unions have had it to good, they were OK in the thirties, but since then they are no longer needed. (Because we gave in to the wealthy like a bunch of wimps.)
Sooner be squashed into poverty by the wealthy than stand up for my rights. Gosh I just love to watch wealthy kids!!!!

"I would fire all State employees, and then privatize the whole deal."
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Taxpayer money going toward private profits... No thanks. (Have enough of that with oil subsidies, anyways)
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Have such services as education, police and fire protection, road maintenance, dictated by CEO ambition instead of public need... No thanks.
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Have vital services such as water supply and reclamation subject to corporate speculation along the lines of trading oil futures instead of being based on bare operating costs... No thanks.
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That's part of the reason why the majority of people in WI want Walker out.

I bet you would but it won't happen!

it will be historic!

and this time next year we could be talking about our new govenor. the majority can hardly wait for these overpaid teapublicans to be gone.

Randy Hopper (18th district-Fond du Lac) has the 2nd highest number of public employees in his district in the entire state. In the last election he won by only 184 votes.
GOODBYE!
Dan Kapanke (32nd district-La Crosse) won in November with only 51% of the vote in a district that is represented by a Democrat in the U.S. House and went 61% for President Obama in 2008.
GOODBYE!
That leaves only 1 of Darling, Cowles, Olsen, or Harsdorf that would need to be recalled to swing the Senate back to the Democrats. This will be difficult, but with the public sentiment clearly against Walker and the Republicans this outcome is not at all unlikely. Plus, Dale Schultz knows how to vote to keep his constituency satisfied, so Democrats already have an advocate on the other side of the aisle.
Come July, the Republicans will reap what they have sown. Quite a poor strategic decision to really fire up the people and unite them right as the state legislature recesses for a month so the Democratic senators and the people have nothing but time to organize these recalls. A poor choice, but a choice they can be thanked for nonetheless.

If you don't try to educate kids and kick them out in the street they will resort to crime,stealing,drugs,crack meth,it's a proven fact.So instead of investing in schools and education lets just get to the point and build prisons!Maybe we can send them to a different country altogether along with the elderly and the sick.

state benefits are just that, a benefit, NOT a right. States all over the country are doing or proposing the exact same thing. The ONLY reason it is such a huge issue in WI. is that Madison is the most Liberal city in the USA.

"the Union donated 2.9 Million to the Democratic party last year"
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Koch Industries for the past 6 election cycles... $4.7 mil to campaigns and $44 mil in lobbying. Exxon... $4.3 mil to campaigns and $141 mil in lobbying.
http://dirtyenergymoney.com/
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Those are just two of the many corporations working against labor. $191 million in the past 10 years???? Methinks that unions help balance the playing field for labor.

they are education is huge!

in Madison, the Labor Federation is sponsoring an April 2 School for Troublemakers, presented by Labor Notes, a Detroit-based media and social movement organizing project.
http://www.troublemakershandbook.org/Tex...

http://host.madison.com/ct/blogs/article...

(At least it is on Saturday so the taxpayers are stuck for paying their wages to attend). Based in Detroit, NOT Wisconsin.

Jessie Jackson was so worked up at the capitol last week. Lets list some things Jesse Jackson was NOT ticked off about! #1- Jesse was not mad that only 9% of Milwaukee African American 4th graders can read!, He is NOT mad that Detroit, which is 80% African American graduates 46% percent of it's students and only 29% percent of those are African American, there is more if you would like me to continue. These people need to get their priorities straight.

"Wow, where are all the thug comments?"
------------------
OK... I'll give you one :)
Dang union thugs... pushing around all of those helpless billionaires... it's just not fair.
Nasty enough? LOL

yes the protest were peacefull, don't forget who wanted to plant trouble makers in the crowd,look who the thugs are now.

glok21sf,your nuts if you think 60 percent are with walker,you sure don't see the polls and even the outsiders see the numbers.Maybe you graduated from one of the right to work states that are on the bottom in education and you can't read!Good luck to ya.

Wow, where are all the thug comments? Guess you can't keep saying that when there were no arrests with 100,000 people!! Way to go Wisconsinites, way to stand up and show others how to peacefully protest for your beliefs! Can't be more proud, wish more Americans would display this right instead of whining and complaining on these sites!!

"Except Walker---hejust bought 14 new SUV's for his staff."
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That's a chunk of change. Tax payer money? or Corporate sponsorship?

sure looks like more people support walker,not.How many about what 700 at his rally?Sound like a big republican butt whoppin in the brewing!Just wait till ryan gives his chat in april.

Because no one can afford new cars even after GM dropped benefits and wages.
Except Walker---hejust bought 14 new SUV's for his staff.

"I am gonna post it up like newglasses, so it looks like a lot of support, but is only one person blogging"
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Go for it... Many of my fellow supporters are busy volunteering in Madison... I speak for the majority of Wisconsinites according to right-leaning Rasmussen: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c...
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As far as union wages... they are elected as well. The difference is that Unions represent Labor while the GOP represents big business.

If the public employee union memmbers and the "Wisconsin 14" are protesting so loudly in support of the unions and expect all unions to support them, why are SO MANY OF THEM DRIVING CARS manufactured by NON UNION LABOR?????????

I am gonna post it up like newglasses, so it looks like a lot of support, but is only one person blogging. The head of the union made 475K last year, the Union donated 2.9 Million to the Democratic party last year and only 13K to the GOP, Gee, wonder where they lean politically????

"I feel more sorry for the unemployed and under employed like myself"
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I'm there with you... But... Know that this is our fight. The solution to our problem in the private sector is not to drive down the wages of others... It is to raise wages. If the GOP successfully divides the Middle Class, we will find ourselves in a downward spiral of compensation where we compete with each other to drive wages and benefits further down.

Exactly JW

Yaah, I feel so sorry for people that actually have jobs that provide benefits!!!! I feel more sorry for the unemployed and under employed like myself. I feel no sympathy for those that hold state Government jobs, teachers, or those in a union!!!!!!!!! the voters spoke last November, and they will continue to speak during the next election. 60% of WI. stand WITH Walker. Strip away all those at the capitol who were from somewhere else and the numbers look not as impressive. Now GO BACK TO WORK, at least you can!

Just one comment to the Walker supporters and those leaning neither way. If it was your jobs and your salaries and you were being singled out to take the sole responsibility for the budget that has been in the deficit for decades, would you sit on your duff and just think that this is all that is going to happen to you. Do you have the brains to know when you are being led down a path to poverty, loss of rights, loss of freedom. Do you honestly think after what Walker has done to "some of the people", he won't do to you next? If he tells you to jump off a bridge are you going to do it? I urge every american whether democrat, republican, independent or anyone else to really sit back and see what has happened here. Rights are being taken away. A fair elected official would not target specific groups whether it be ethnic, workers, senior citizens, children etc, to pay the price for everyone. Walker has not distributed the financial load fairly. He has singled out one group to take the entire burden, and not to balance the budget, but to imbalance the next presidential election. I am sure you did not vote in a "Leader to reduce our income", I am sure you did not vote in a "Leader to rob from the poor and give to the rich". I am asking everyone to stop, think, and proceed with caution before we end up with no freedom, no rights, and our country is destroyed forever by this power-grab group of republicans who would stomp out even their fellow republicans who don't agree with them.
Thank you for your time reading this. I am not a true democrat, not a true republican, not an independent, I never vote a straight ticket, only vote for the person I trust the most. Many times I have heard people state you vote for the least of two evils. The worst of two evils is not what I want running our country. I want the best of the best to run my country and that is someone who is just, fair, and treats his people with respect and equality.

"Sounds like a good time to pass voter ID." Yep... remove collective bargaining... whittle away Middle Class at compensation... then try your best to cut the people affected out of the polls because you know you'll never get re-elected. Fitzgerald and Walker are feeling pretty safe with their plan to fleece this state.

"Sounds like a lot more than one donkey."... plenty of us Independents as well.

"I just read in the Wisconsin State Journal that the state holds about 232 million in Koch bros. and Walmart stock in holdings for pensions"
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Perfect example of corporate influence. I, for one, would rather see my 401k in A+ rated WI bonds than in private corporations. My 401k still has not recovered from where it was back in 2006. Wall Street has no interest in seeing me retire from the private sector.

"frit that can read speak and write in English. And the people voting are from Wisconsin"
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Starting with you. LOL

"Where is the protest for the 10% unemployed, and millions of underemployed in Wisconsin."
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This is it, silly. I'm private sector, non-union. Cuts in compensation over the last two years have devastated my family while the company posts record profits. Unemployment in my industry is at 35%. This is the fight for all of Middle Class America to demand compensation relative to increase in productivity and profit. No more free rides for major corporations.

I just read in the Wisconsin State Journal that the state holds about 232 million in Koch bros. and Walmart stock in holdings for pensions.

Not much , but it shows that you need money from business investiment if you want to have pensions based on market values in this country.

I wonder how much they would enjoy the return on government treasuries at this point.

Sounds like a lot more than one donkey.

Sounds like a good time to pass voter ID.