Somebody sent me an email with a list of taxes Americans pay. It was written by a retiring journalist in Florida. Anyone seen it and could refer me to the source?

fear, once again, you're off and running...
Your "agreed upon" contract is gone. Teacher ARE being compensated with a paycheck. Welcome to the real world.

"By your rationale we should just ELIMINATE all taxes and let kids educate themselves. Burn your trash and drive through blizzards waiting for it to melt."
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So much for a reasoned conversation. I am all for a reasonable tax system. I am not for continued wasting of tax dollars, as has been the case for a long, long, long time.

The numbers I posted came directly from the Legislative Fiscal Bureau; http://www.wispolitics.com/1006/090319LF...

Raf if you follow the link I provided it will show you the numbers are 1.136 billion, but whatever. You can play the shell game all you like. I fundamentally disagree with your contention that taxes on business are just passed on to consumers. Combined reporting laws are just tax schemes for chains like Wal Mart to escape their taxes. In that method of thinking , then when businesses get tax breaks , do they lower prices? Doubtful. You can believe that all you like, and you have a right to your opinion, but I absolutely DISAGREE. I am fine with Wal Mart and smokers paying more taxes, as both are HUGE drags on society. Just because you believe something to be true doesnt make it so, its your opinion. By your rationale we should just ELIMINATE all taxes and let kids educate themselves. Burn your trash and drive through blizzards waiting for it to melt.
Gmaof3 you seem to be an angry uninformed old bag. Criminal? Pensions are AGREED compensation as a part of negotiated contracts. Its not taxpayer money its theirs, they earned it, let it go! Your contenetions are a JOKE. You would rather give your retirement funds to wall street and your 401ks for investment banks to piss away in 5 days. I hope that Paulie Ryan and his pals take your SS and medicare as they are proposing. I wish you the best of luck in that scenario.
Teachers living beyond their means? Should they plan on their slaries being cut somewhere in the area of 20% when borrowing to purcase a home? Maybe we should all just live in apartments during elections for fear of stupid politicians that will attack our way of life as a political "tool". Your lack of intellect is almost as appalling as your lack of understanding of peoples lives. They have families and kids to think about as well. Is anyone that lives tight athat owns their home living beyond their means? The economy is broken because of the private sector and the investment banks irresponsibility. What you hope for is going to further drive this nation into the gutter. Maybe thats what you want I dont know, you just seem a whole bunch of crazy to me.

Fear I was wrong. The state increased taxes by 1.46 billion and fees by over 237 million.

The one thing most don't understand, businesses never pay taxes, increased fees to companies are never paid by the companies, increased hospital assessments are never paid by the hospitals. These are all paid by the consumer...the tax payer. Pretending a tax increase to a business doesn't affect you is absurd.

Here are some other "increases" that came out of the 2009 budget:
Hospital assessment
Nursing home bed tax
Home energy bills
Justice system surcharge
Farmland rezone fee
Animal slaughter fee
Weights and measures fee
Animal license and reinsertion fee
Childcare licensing fee
New fees for fire sprinkler examinations
Security and trading fees
Vital records fees
Birth certificate fee
Researcher fee for access to cancer information
Assisted living center licensing fee
Adult family home certification fee
Personal care service provider fee
Insurance agent appointment fee
Handgun purchaser record check fee
Crime victim and witness assistance surcharge
Boat registration fee
Solid waste tipping fee
Vehicle fee
Air operation permit fee
Telephone fee
TIF district fee
Title lean fee
Work permit fee

gma? Really? The state shouldn't fairly compensate its employees? Really?

While the whining continues about government employees losing homes, I gotta say, if you are that close to bankruptcy, you are living beyond your means, already.
If an employer has a union involved, it is their choice. Plumbers, electricians, factories, etc. But State employees who are drawing off tax payers for retirement and health insurance seems criminal to me. I just don't feel this is a good way for the state to do business. The state needs to recoup funds that for decades have been "status quo"... it's time for a change.

Hey Mr Raf Yes I was aware of the tax/fees increase , are you aware of what those icreases involved? They were NOT income or property taxes. I will list a few for you since you seem to think that your taxes went up.
1 oil profits tax
2 medical records technology investment
3 Economic Nexus Standard for Internet Businesses
4 Adopt Combined Reporting
5 Extend Sales Tax to Digital Personal Property
6 Cigarette Tax Increase
7 Tobacco Products Tax Increase
8 Very High Earner Income Tax Bracket
9 Reduce Capital Gains Exclusion to 40%
10 Adopt Main Street Equity Act

Now Raf other than the very high earner income tax, what in there directly affects you? Unless you have been buying goods online tax free? I would argue that almost every single one of those increases helped the people of Wisconsin as well as the businesses. You may hear Scott Walker talk about the 1.2 billion in tax increases and fail to find out whose taxes were incresed. I would implore you to look into it a little further. Here is a link to all the other taxes that were increased , and some that were DECREASED by the doyle administration. :http://www.wpri.org/blog/?p=510 Follow thw link RAF and tell me more about the evil tax increases of Jim Doyle, and the evil tax credits that were granted to dairy coops, and many others. We may have a problem with spending, but it is my contention that can be curbed WITHOUT hurting the middle class families that work hard for the government just as you did in the Air Force. I believe our problem is not as much with spending its with revenue.
Maybe the DOA and the DOJ could spend more time investigating and pursueing the 100 top tax cheats in Wisconsin. All of whom are business and property owners, not teachers, firefighters and police officers. Another link for you RAF since you seem like the kind of guy who might , despite personal disagreements, might actually look into it, :http://www.revenue.wi.gov/delqlist/Topten.htm
There is almost 1.5 billion there, maybe we should go after money already owed? A noble idea, dont you think? Maybe we should just let them skate, and make sure that thousands of families in the state lose their homes and otherwise in the interests of giving companies like wal-mart the combined reporting tax loophole back. Sounds fair to me.

Shrek, every districy is different. I would contact the superintendent or the district administrator to find out what the policy is in your district. I would think that most of these type of policies aren't published anywhere.
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noleftist, this is usually a school board policy, not something you'll find in the union cotract. Most contracts have a clause that states that employees agree to abide by all policies, etc from the school board.

And yet, raf, you continue to accept a taxpayer-funded, government issued check every month of your life. Imagine the tax relief to everyone if you would have the integrity to give back the many, many thousands of dollars you have accepted on the dole. Crying about others getting government monies, all the while scooping up as much taxpayer money as you possibly can...

It's laughable to hear lefties complain about the 5 year max, presumably not allowing the district to hire 'better' teachers.

Well, you see, the union has purposely set up a system where you get paid for years of service, not how well you teach. Thus, The districts are only following the letter of their collective bargaining agreements as negotiated by the UNIONS, not Scott Walker.

This is no more a loss than if they retired without the grandstanding by the unions. Good luck and hope they all enjoy retirement.

fear perhaps you don't know, forgot, or decided to ignore the last budget from our state when 1.2 billion in more taxes were added; so yes taxes and fees did go up. Perhaps you don't know, forgot, or decided to ignore the last budget cycle that included over 800 million in federal stimulus spending, most of which supported public employees; protecting jobs.

After all this money the state still SPENT too much, and created a larger deficit than before. In this state there technically cannot be a deficit so the state finances debt to balance the budget. The recent deficit was just refinanced as part of the finance bill the state pushed through.

The next budget is already MINUS the 800 million from the federal stimulus and spending needs to be reduced because of this. Adding more taxes is not the answer; it didn't work for the last budget either. It is time to live within the means of the tax payers. Pretending this is about teachers, police, fireman, or other workers ignores the reality of where most of the state/county/city money goes too; employment costs. You cannot cut spending (funding) without affecting this.

Mac Daddy- When was the last time your taxes went up? Income taxes go DOWN, didnt GWB cut everyones taxes? Gas taxes should go up, they destroy the environment and cause problems that the govenment has to clean up along with the increasing cost to repair roads. Dont like gas tax, move closer to your job and buy a bicycle. You keep crying about your job and the attack on your wages/benefits. If you are a true believer in free-enterprise and choice , then take your talents to an employer that gives you better choices. That is what you ask teachers to do. Your employer will never bring back the health care unless they are forced to, buut they should be able to right? i sure hope you dont get terminally ill and get dropped by your free market health insurer. Some of you folks wouldn't be able to see this for what it is if it bit you in the face. Scott Walker does NOT care about the workers in the private sector, he could care less how much you pay for your insurance, or youor 401k. He does care about your employers taxes and wants them to be able to control your life more and more, and give them the "tools" to do it.

Your contentions that teachers will have to take a meager hit are just ridiculous. Like everyone else teachers have homes, carpayments and the like. The hits that many of them will take will cause them to lose their homes. I am related to teachers and have many friends who are teachers. I know of at least 5 families that are in severe danger of their homes being foreclosed on because of this "meager" hit on their paychecks. I dont know how much you make in your beloved private sector, but when you have to take between 300-600 less a month because Scott Walker believes it to be a MEAGER contribution, you are going to see teachers and many other public sector workers lose their livelyhoods and have to make very hard choices that will affect families. That will foreclose more homes, that will default more loans, that will drag the state economy further down. All because a very unintelligent governor apeals to bitter, jealous folks like yourself that are hoodwinked into thinking teachers have it so much better. I am here to tell you , that is just false.
If your job sucks, your employer is taking more from you so they can pay their execs more, QUIT! Stop blaming others for your own misgivings. These people have so many of you snowed its not even funny. This state is going to be worse off than ever if these policies continue. Mark my words. And Scott Walker will ride off into the sunset witha fantastic government retirement and become a super-wealthy lobbyist, all while you pay more for insurance , and make less income. Sounds like a "change you can believe in" huh? Might wanna spend less time on the weekends at the bowlin alley watchin the race.

"We're doing this for the school children!"

Forced to retire is when your boss comes to you at 4:30 one week before Christmas and says "Sorry, We have to let you go but we will give two weeks of severance pay and Thanks for your 26 years of service. Having to take about an 8% pay cut and lose some collective bargaining privileges is NOT being forced to retire. So don't blame Walker for something that is your choice.

NO "criticaleye", he is speaking the truth for the majority in Wisconsin! Macdaddy has posted what the Majority voted for. Of COURSE we appreciate what teachers do for our children. This goes with NO argument! But to tell you the truth, I had NO IDEA how much of my hard earned money went towards a teacher's pension fund and retirement pension bennies! To me, this is forced robbery of my hard earned taxes! This is LITERALLY our biggest gripe! And regarding the "collective bargaining"? hmmm. I don't get to argue about any bennie.. Well there ya go, this is where the Dems and Reps differ.

Mac Daddy you are a bitter, angry liar.

These teachers are great folks. People who helped out our kids. Thanks so much for the years.

i_luv_jvl: why is it unfair actions? What is unfair about anything happening? Seriously??

Walker was voted in to take care of a huge problem with spending, he was voted in fair and square. All the Senators and Representatives were voted in fair and square and voted on this issue, what exactly happened there that is unfair?

Again, many others in many other sectors have been told take a pay cut or take a walk. You still have it so much better than so many others. That is the real shame, you aren't grateful for what you have, instead many choose to complain about having to take a very slight hit to their paycheck.

I personally had to take a 10% cut in wages and lost health care and employer sponsored retirement. Am I bitter, no, but why teachers and others in the public sector feel like this is unfair is ridiculous!

I am tired of having to pay more income taxes, federal taxes, gas taxes, property taxes, on less and less income! That is why so many like me voted for Walker and am happy with the job he is doing!

If Paul Ryan could separate himself from the party's kickbacks to the corporations that own them, he'd be an okay guy, but he needs to not just look at cutting spending; he needs to look at ending the corporate corruption that exists instead of joining the GOP in continued support of it.

Why would I care about the ideas of a man who wants to continue reducing the taxes of the rich on the backs of the poor and middle class? I've completely lost all respect for Paul Ryan.

And how exactly does all enthusiasm for early retirement and getting rid of that old stale workforce square with Paul Ryan's idea of raising the retirement age to 67?

iluvjvl,
I love your posts.
I was here last month letting people know I am one of the 125 laid off. I just found a job and will be leaving Janesville.
Sometimes good things come out of bad. I'm seriously glad to be getting out of here.
Thank you, Janesville for the few years I did have here. Please learn to treat your teachers better. A depressed city could collapse completely if you allow your school district to become one that is regarded as poor quality and lacking of community support.

i think people should only be allowed in their positions five years tops, whatever their profession. that way we can keep the young enthusiasts at the helm, and everyone at a minimum entry level wage. :) we could have the business owners controlling the money and the rest of us just hopping around from position to position, just glad to have a job.

funny - often times i will see comments from the people who think the teachers have it too good about how they lost their jobs, forced out due to cuts, etc. clearly they are a group of people basing their opinions on commiseration rather than fairness.

janesville was my fourth district. the first time i moved, i had 3 years under my belt. the new district gave me those 3 years of experience. i spent 4 years at the next district. the next district would only give me 5 years of experience, which was common, so certainly nothing to argue about. i spent two years there and then came to janesville. how many years of experience did i get? the expected five year max. it doesn't have to be written somewhere. it's common. i think the district actually has the ability to give more years if they want, especially when they are trying to fill a hard-to-fill position, but it's not common.

macdaddy - most teachers enter the profession because of their strong personal conviction to the profession, love for children, and desire to respectfully serve their community. teachers also tend to have a strong emotional connection to fairness.
do you expect them to just take whatever unfair actions against them with a brush off the shoulder because they care about nothing but the children? they do have livelihoods to preserve as well.
don't be so silly.

When an individual actually plans for a career and for retirement, in the public or the private sector, and the rug is pulled out from under them-either by losing the right collective bargaining or by hedge fund operators messing with their 401K's, that is a shame. The problem in Wisconsin is exacerbated by the governor's unyielding stance about the right to collective bargaining. Kind of like if a person foolishly invested their whole retirement savings in the stock market-suddenly what you have worked and planned for throughout your career is vulnerable to the whims of the market and who is in office. A teacher or public worker may be willing to pay more toward health insurance and retirement if they knew that this was somewhat secure and their bargaining rights remained intact. That said, nothing in life is ever truly secure-however the glee that so many people seem to take in the misfortune of others-particularly teachers-disgusts me. If you have some time do some research on how countries whose students perform well treat their teachers-but then again this is America where studies have shown that students expectations of success exceed their actual abilities.

Dtb,
Can you help me to find the district policies that you are referring to?

I looked at the policies in my local districts and cannot find where incoming teachers are limited.

When hiring, most school districts only give 5 years experience on the salary scale. So if a teacher with more than 5 years of teaching gets hired, they start at step 5 regardless of their experience. This is school board policy in most districts, not a union issue. Sort of takes the steam out of the "I can negotiate my own pay and benefits if I'm the best at what I do" argument.

I'm a little confused, maybe someone can help me out here?

Is it really about the students or is it about themselves, since they don't want to stop teaching, but feel they have to in order to make the most money and benefits in retirement?

Looks like another contradiction to me, unless I am missing something. Help me understand the other side.

Well said, Mouse and Sluggo. The most influential teachers I had and particularly the two that made an enormous difference in my life were the older "seasoned" ones. The least effective? Those fresh out of college. They had the educational foundation, but not the wisdom and experience for application of this knowledge in a classroom setting. Mentoring from experienced teachers makes a big difference in reducing new teacher "trial and error."

These are NOT forced retirements. These teachers made a financial decision. This is the same decision that any employee makes when they are close to retirement. They decided that is was financially better for them to retire now, nobody made this decision for them.

If they truly love to teach, they can get back into teaching as substitutes.

Rhinehart Lintonen was never a dull teacher and the district is losing a great teacher. He was a teacher that I don't think could ever get burnt out. You are judging teachers based on their age and not what they bring to the table.
I like the analogy of plumbers and electricians that was very well put. Thank you for your years of dedicated service Mr. Lintonen.

I just looked at a job posting for a teacher. One of the requirements...5 years experience MAXIMUM.
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This was not from a poor district. This was from a fairly wealth district.
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Thanks to our governor, districts are now forced to cap years experience when hiring. This means the best teachers will be disqualified becaust they cost too much money.
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One more example of how quality education is being attacked by our current governor.

So when the Janesville School District agrees to pay out more than $100k just for health retirement benefits (paid from instructional funds) for each teacher, that's a good thing becuse it encourages older more expensive teachers out, but when they actually retire, that's a bad thing? I can usually figure out lefty non-linear logic, but this one truly escapes me.

The teachers in the story had 30+ years experience in the classroom and have 'qualified' for retirement! There will be plenty of those with 15, 20 or 25 years experience left over to mentor the new folks! Often left out of these reports of increasing numbers of teacher retirees, is the fact that because we are the baby boomer generation there actually are a lot more of us at retirement age. Thus, we retire! I know I am loving it!

Remember that just 2 wks ago the stories were about the new teachers deciding if this is realy what they want to do for a living.

gmaof3, of course it really doesn't matter to you if they are ore aren't ready, your children won't be in the public schools.

mouse--I am retired and I do volunteer--in an after school tutoring program with hispanic students. And when I taught (only for a few years) I don't remember any "guidance and support" from other older teachers. Their are some good "old" teachers and some good "new" teachers.

I think they ARE ready! Watch and see.

Grandma, I hope these "more innovative, energetic and enthusiastic" teachers are ready for what's about to happen. Districts will not be replacing many of these retiring teachers to save money and class sizes will slowly increase as more teachers leave the profession. Many districts have removed "class size" and "teacher workload" language from new contracts.

I have two grown children as well. The younger teachers were more innovative, energetic and enthusiastic. They had not experienced the burn out and frustration.

How many kids out of college will want a career in teaching that starts at less than 30,000 a year before your benefits come out? Especially with 50,000 plus in student loans!
How exactly is experience at a higher cost a bad thing? Question, would you ire a plumber/electrician with ZERO experience to wire or plumb your home to save money at risk of your home flooding or burning down? Some times the steps that folks will take to save a few bucks just make ZERO sense to me. These are the people that would just assume 19 year olds fresh out of high school were elementary teachers. Stupid is as stupid does.

I am very saddened to see the disrespect towards teachers with experience, blanketed within patronizing gratitude. Think back to the first few years at your career - do you really think you knew what you were doing? As somebody is always telling me, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." Guidance, support and experience is what would make these new teachers effective, not just enthusiasm.

If they don't replace these teachers you can see class sizes increasing to a level that even seasoned old professionals would have a hard time managing. Believe me- I'm a baby boomer and I know what a class of 38 to 40 kids is like.

Voluntary retirements are perhaps the best way to handle continual enrollment declines in Wisconsin.

There are more early retirements coming through out the state and a group of new and up and coming new teachers, but the question should be, are the districts going to hire these new teachers to replace them? With the budgets the districts are working under are the retirements going to make up for the lay offs and have the ability to hire new employees?

Reading the snarky comments here and on other chat sites makes me wonder who would want these jobs? It takes years to really understand your subject and the wide variety of students you work with including those with special needs, their parents, and the community. I have two grown children and their best teachers were the older more experienced ones, particularly at the elementary level.

Mouse -- welcome to the corporate world! I did retire, forced due to "downsizing" and "restructuring". Still unemployed.
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To the retiring educators -- THANKS for your years of service and dedication!

Great comments from both of you. Fresh water in the stream is good for everyboby. New ideas from the next generation of teachers will help these students. Thanks to the retiring teachers for a job well done. Now go out and volunteer for something you will enjoy. The cost savings to the Districts will be appreciated by all.

You my friend... are absolutely correct! With younger minds coming in, they are more in tune with their students and hungrier to educate. They aren't stale and "set" in their ways.
To those retiring, thank you for a job well done. And thank you for stepping down for the next generation of great teachers!

I think that after 35 years in one job, you should try something new. If they miss the kids they can always go back and volunteer. And while experience is a good thing, a young enthusiastic teacher, hungry to make a difference is a good thing too. And it will save the school board money. One door closes and another one opens.