Fear - Our union leadership chased off our manufacturing blue collar jobs by asking for rediculous pay and benefits -- along with presidents that regulated the businesses so much that it was far easier to do business offshore.

I know the numbers are skewd RLOT, but were they also skewed at the end of the doyle administartion? Was it Jim Doyles fault that the last 30+ years of Presidents have sold out our blue collar sector? Not a big Doyle person, never voted for him. That being said it seems that the standards are different for him comapred to the repubs(Walker, Tommy, McCallum) but I guess that is why I hate partisan politics so much. Breeds dishonesty, excuse making, double standards.

"Now, the latest figures put the rate at 7.7 percent."
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Those figures are skewed, you know, but the fact that a large number of people who were previously getting unemployment compensation have given up looking for work, not that they were even trying when they were getting comp.
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"unemployed workers" are those who are currently not working but are willing and able to work for pay, currently available to work, and have actively searched for work. Individuals who are actively seeking job placement must make the effort to be in contact with an employer, have job interviews, contact job placement agencies, send out resumes, submit applications, respond to advertisements, or some other means of active job searching within the prior four weeks. Simply looking at advertisements and not responding will not count as actively seeking job placement. Since not all unemployment may be "open" and counted by government agencies, official statistics on unemployment may not be accurate. That's the case here. They've reported it as such in the media, even nationally.

Wisconsin did not just lose jobs in October.

Wisconsin lost jobs in September.

Wisconsin lost jobs in August.

Wisconsin lost jobs in July.

Back in May, when Walker was bragging about how he had “fixed”Wisconsin, the latest figures put the state’s unemployment rate at 7.3 percent.

Now, the latest figures put the rate at 7.7 percent.

916 pls post the numbers that you are finding that there are 20k more jobs. Been looking for that one and am having trouble discovering that, Thanks!

did find these though:
http://www.jsonline.com/business/1280168...

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/...

At my count that is 2 months that totals over 22,500 PRIVATE sector jobs lost.

Mooshoe.......Love how the anti-Walker crybabies are so pessimistic! Under Walker's leadership, Wisconsin has a balanced budget, over 20,000 more jobs YTD and a much better than average unemployment rate. All of this while our country is still fighting it's way out of a serious recession. If you're clueless enough to consider this as "killing jobs", I would be really interested to find out what you interpret as creating them! Stop being such a whining crybaby and come to terms with the fact that Walker is exactly what the state needs right now:)

Recallwalker--I think you're a little misguided.......It's the 92%'ers(the 92% of us who don't belong to a public worker's union) who are fighting against the greed infested unions. Walker has done an amazing job up to this point with both bringing the state's economy into check as well as curbing some of the power of the unions who have abused it for decades. Many of us wish him continued success!

Mooshoe--The state was divided before Walker came into play. How else can you explain the total shift of every aspect of our state's government as well as the state's supreme court in one election cycle? You can thank Diamond Jimmy Doyle and his democrat buddies for this "division" you speak of. The one thing good about Jimmy's failure, is that it was on a scale large enough to set into motion a complete shift of our government allowing for policy and legislation to be set into motion that never would have seen the light of day 3 to 4 years prior:)

BM, what was the point of your question:

"3) And when did man create the first law? When did man first become civil?"

Are you now claiming that the your bible or your bible-god is not the answer to that question?

916WI KOCH brother's kool aid tastes great, you've drank it all, it's too late. The 99%'ers are fighting back to seal the weasels fate.
RECALL the WEASEL!

#600.

Anti, as much as I hate to say it, 916 is right on the salaries comment. In most public schools, salaries and bennies are 75-85% of the total budget. Look and see. Schools are in the people business.
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Not sure where the 6% number for BTC comes from, but it seems pretty low, even for a Tech Coll. Do you have a source on it?

916, what schools are you talking about and where are you getting your information. At, BTC for example, salaries represent about 6% of total costs. But the point is that you don't really know but you talk is if you do.

916WI said, "No problems eating over my laptop......"
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Are you sure? Looks like there's some peanut butter and jelly under the "." key.

Mouse -- while I would generally disagree with you, I agree that changing the contract while still operating under an agreement/contract cannot be done. However, it is fair to ask teachers to pay for their own benefits as part of a future contract or under budgetary constraints to ask for a contract to be renegotiated. I believe that to be fair, I also believe that hiring non - union teachers to be fair and forcing any teacher, firefighter, policeman to join a union just to have a job to be unfair. Any profession should be capable of being an at will employment decision. Not requiring a labor representation that takes money from my check. Allowing me the choice to save for my own retirement as I see fit and for me to take personal responsibility for my future and my own retirement.

I appreciate Governor Walker's efforts to rescue Wisconsin and will vote for him this time if the recall efforts are successful.

916, I'm not sure I understand you at all. Of COURSE tax payers pay the whole bill for schools and teachers salaries, we pay the whole bill for all government services. Your argument makes no sense. Should teachers be paying for the privilege of teaching the kids? The pension agreement was PART of the salary package when teachers were hired, to change it in a way that takes money out of a teachers wallet, and lets not forget that THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO CARE FOR OUR CHILDREN, is a nasty trick to play on them. It's not fair and they are just about the last people who deserve it.

Antireactionary--Approximately 80% of a school districts budget is spent on teacher's salaries in Wisconsin. You seriously consider that a "very small portion"?? Hopefully you're not a math teacher.:) Whether you choose to change the label from "pension funding" to "deferred compensation" it doesn't change the fact that the Wisconsin taxpayers are being asked to pick up the entire tab on it.

Mr 916, pensions have always been paid for by the employee, it is called deferred compensation. Salaries represent a very small portion of the total costs of running a school. The problem is that ignorant bigots like you think you know what you are talking about when clearly you do not.

916, this is the first I've heard from you that the REASON for a recall makes any difference. And BTW, who was it that got a felony conviction? Facts please. You are pretty famous on this site for offering skewed/incorrect data...

poop--No problems eating over my laptop......It was "designed" by someone who actually knew what they were doing:)

Recallwalker....."Walker's attack on the working class"? Too funny! You seriously think the unions were attempting to gouge the Koch Brothers with their "tax to the max" mantra. The unions had their sights aimed at the 90% of middle class Wisconsinites who were not a part of their little club. If it's possible, try really hard to look at the situation objectively and see where the dollars used to fund these excessive pensions and benefits came from. A little hit to get you started--It wasn't the Koch brothers......

Janesvillecan.......Easy peasy on that response. We've already been through this. There's a huge difference between the justification for the two recalls. In 2002, the push for recall centered on the Milwaukee County pension fund scandal which ended in a felony conviction. The one currently being attempted in the state centers on a group of people simply not liking legislation which was passed. A difference significant enough to note in the article-- I'm surprised the author of your linked article did not mention it. He wouldn't happen to be liberal/anti-Walker, would he??

Here you go---

http://www.thenation.com/blog/164957/wis...

Any response to the fact that Walker is a proven liar and a hypocrite?

Mouse, I love your sense of humor.

MadCityDave, I think it does. Now people are held responsible for what they say, rather than ramble on or insulting others. The thing I have noticed is that comments dissapear each time they update the story, been told it was because as of now there is no way to carry the Facebook thread over because the pages are somehow linked together? I dunno, too technical for me. Sure people can make up a fake FB page, I just think it adds a layer of accountability to a persons comments.

Kersty, channel3000 honors debate????
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Seem as if their comments have dropped to near zero since they started requiring a facebook page to leave commments.

Glad I let my subscription run out, my money doesnt need to support a media group which suppresses free speech, Channel 3000 at least honors debate. And I would like you to post to me or email me why my last comment was removed regarding your own rules?

Good bye Scotty, you will be ousted. The 99% will overcome you and the "Koch" kool aid drinkers that voted you in to office. Scotty, you are going to have time real soon for David Koch to "fly you out to Cali!" :-) Your attack on the working class may continue, but you will have a different zip code. Thank you to the many folks with recall petitions, you are truly bringing joy to the season!

916WI, you suggested keyboards can't fail and cause typos, etc. I just wanted to correct you on that. Rest assured that most keyboards I was part of designing are probably in museums by now. Nonetheless, put that sugar coated mini-donut down and keep your keyboard nice and clean.

Poop--Did you not read what I wrote? My post clearly states that my current laptop and those I've owned prior have performed flawlessly. I guess I'm just fortunate enough to have never come upon these failure prone models that you had a hand in "designing"..........If possible, put up a list on those you have worked on so I know what to stay away from when/if I feel the need to replace this one. Thx!

Oh, 916WI... I started designing computer hardware, including keyboards, in 1977. I can tell you without question that keyboards can malfunction and output gibberish. All keys, a scan row of keys or just one key can fail. Additionally, people drop sugar coated mini-donuts, ketchup from french fries and beer on their keyboards causing problems with keys sticking together and producing unwanted characters. So, my advice for you is #1) don't call a computer hardware designer stupid about keyboard failure modes; and #2) quit eating mini-donuts and fries over your keyboard.

Correct poop.......Any errors would be mine and mine alone. I realize that you and your ilk attempt to turn your back on personal responsibility whenever the opportunity arises, but to suggest that a computer could be blamed for typographical errors? Are you really that stupid??

916WI said, "As it is, if I could give the 9 year old that put my MacBook Pro together a lollypop, I would in a heartbeat. I've had this thing for 4 years and it hasn't skipped a beat."
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I guess that means you can't blame your computer for the typographical errors, grammatical errors and drivel it is transmitting to the Internet.

Seriously.......now the comments have evolved into a discussion about slave/child labor laws?? So now the United States is not only expected to police the world with it's military, but also is supposed to dictate their social/cultural/economic beliefs to other countries?? Yeah--that will go over reallllllllly well! Judging by the Obama/Kerry-Edwards/Recall Walker bumper stickers plastered on a good percentage of the cars at Wal-Mart, if the libs that love hanging out there were willing to spend a little more on American made products, little Yang in China wouldn't have to head to the factory after he is done with recess to assemble trinkets for the evil American corporations and the evil American consumers........As it is, if I could give the 9 year old that put my MacBook Pro together a lollypop, I would in a heartbeat. I've had this thing for 4 years and it hasn't skipped a beat.

anti thanks for your 1 cent, so far your contributions are as valuable as poo; her's are of no value either.

antireactionary, you have to understand that RAF has developed his own set of logic rules. An example of RAF logic that apparently guides his child labor denial is that if A=B and B=C, then A≠C.

Mr AirForce spare us your dribble. You move operations to a country with NO, repeat NO child labor laws and you don't think there will be child laborers? How truly ignorant can you be?

It boils down to what you think and your hyperbole more than facts. Do I think companies knowingly leave this country to use child slave labor, NO! I do believe companies try at every, okay many, opportunities to reduce costs including production and tax costs. Do I fully respect these choices, not entirely but I do understand it. The same thing happens when companies move from state to state in our country as well. But the utter absurdity of your blanket statement needs to be questioned if for no other reason than this spawned off your rant on walker with prison labor, also not a new thing but hyped to new levels because he is now governor of the state.

LOL thats what I thought RAF, act like an attorney and IGNORE the obvious!! Move operations to third world nations with no labor regulations, child slave labor WILL be use, it is and they know it!! AND YOU KNOW IT!! You can pretend that the bursen of proof is somehow on me, but that again is just a silly argument. Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess, morality really isn't one of your strong points is it?
Cmon RAF try to answer a question straight up , if you can.
Do YOU believe(key word) that companies in this nation move their manufacturing to third world nations, knowing that thie products will be made by CHILD SLAVE LABOR?
Its a YES or NO, not a "provide me with proof" question. You want me to prove their intent? Are you saying that they are oblivious to this when they make the moves? I will tell you they know EXACTLY what they are doing the very moment they are doing it!!

http://www1.american.edu/ted/nike.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/...
http://www.albionmonitor.com/9606a/nikel...

http://www.stopfirestone.org/2008/06/cal...
http://www.childlaborphotoproject.org/ch...
http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/e...

Again RAF whatever helps you sleep at night, morality is a fickle thing for some.

Total and full intent to use child labor law? Wow...still waiting for what you know not what you think.

Fear you did say would rather use slave or child labor. Moving operations to another country is hardly the same thing. Still waiting...

RAF-Isn't it th total and full intent of any company that moves to a 3rd world company to take advantage of unregulated and many times child slave labor?

http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?i...

RAF- Nike,Dell, Apple, Samsung , Canon, Foxconn, ReeBok, Adidas, Converse, and pretty much every single apparel manufacturer.
Almost all manufacturing is leaving this country in droves. Couple other interesting examples:
Cooper Industries Inc.: Cooper Industries, a company that makes electrical products and tools such as Halo and Lumière brand light fixtures, moved from Houston to Bermuda in 2002 and subsequently garnered $3.6 million in government contracts.
“We felt that American companies, based upon the tax laws that are written today, are clearly put at an economic disadvantage to foreign companies," said Victoria Guennewig, a spokeswoman for Cooper Industries, in defense of the company’s relocation.

Seagate Technology LLC: The California designer, manufacturer and marketer of rigid disk drives is run from the Cayman Islands. In December 2006, Seagate's Barracuda 750GB hard drive ranked No. 9 in PC World's "The 20 Most Innovative Products of the Year."

Ingersoll-Rand Co. Ltd.: This New Jersey-based company, which manufactures Thermo King refrigerated trucks, also moved to Bermuda in 2001. In 2007, the company faced an IRS (Internal Revenue Service) audit over the way it classified some debt in its reincorporation in Bermuda in 2002.

Tyco International Ltd.: Manufacturers and providers of services in health care, flow control, security, telecommunications and electronics, Tyco International reincorporated in Bermuda in 1997. In 2002, Tyco International's chairman and CEO, L. Dennis Kozlowski, was indicted on charges that he had evaded more than $1 million in New York sales taxes.

The facts are that this IS happening, while because of free trade laws this is a legal practice(evading taxes, cutting wages). If you think it okay do sell out American workers to save a few bucks at Wal Mart then I guess you have no one but yourselves to blame for HIGH unemployment, high defecits and debt. We wouldnt have those problems if MORE people were not only employed, but making a decent middle class wage. You used to be able to "just work hard" for a living and make it. Now that is no longer possible here in the US. I do NOT believe that raising taxes on the wealthy is the answer, but leveling the playing field IS. I believe if you support free trade and globalism, then you are NOT a patriot.

RAF...most of the lemmings signing the toilet paper don't have an answer of who they would like to see run against Walker...Cullen?...PLEASE...other than the shear entertainment factor this blog really is a waste of time...look at the voter poll, Walker would get elected again...so all of this trash has done nothing but put this state in the public eye, and cost millions we don't have, or are going to waste with this dribble, take away those whom could be doing something constructive for this state and make them have to deal with this dribble...and waste a whole lot of time...good entertainment I agree, but again with the Dems there is no solution...just hype

You really need to work on your comebacks, poo. You're working at about a first grade "Dick and Jane" level right now. Pathetic and lame comebacks. I expect better.

Fear said "The fact is that the points made in the Kos article are very valid. Business owners nation wide would much rather use slave labor to produce their goods, whether they are prisoners here or kids in China."
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Really? List the business owners you KNOW who want this; to use slave or child labor. Not only is it a crime others deserve to know so they can adjust their consumer spending appropriately.

TokyoRosie said, "You know, I've always wished that I'd had the time to seek out the dark forces of evil and join their hellish crusade against everything good in the world."
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You've been doing that here since you signed up on July 13, 2011.

You know, I've always wished that I'd had the time to seek out the dark forces of evil and join their hellish crusade against everything good in the world. I'm not doing anything tomorrow, so I think I'll join the Recall Walker movement for a day and do just that.

State wide? Wow I'm glad they told us that-I think most people are too stupid to know that. A lot of people thought it was only in Madison, Milwaukee and of course Madison South-also none as Janesville.

LOL thx Poobah but I think my comments are far more likely to shut down the site!! LOL in all fairness!!
I am actually struggling here because aparantly I had some credibility with RAF and now it is gone.Actually I was shocked to hear him say that I had any!
BTW RAf although I could care less about who deems me credible or not, my opinions are mine. I do enjoy your posts when they are informative and not condescending. I feel like you are one of the few right wingers who can actually from time to time make me think a little harder. Maybe drop the condescention all the time and we could actually get somewhere in our little discussions in less than 500 posts(the medicare chat we had earlier this year:))

You think I care about credibility when it comes to the parrots on this site? I READ all the links whether or not they are from Macyver, FOX, Media matters, Politico, Kos, Think progress etc.... And for MY OWN opinions accordingly. Unlike many on these blogs that just refuse to follow and read a link because of the source.
Sorry I cannot always find articles from sources approved by you RAF, but be sure that when you post a link I ALLWAYS follow and read the article attached BEFORE making any comments on bias , which YOU have already proven that you dont do.

RAF said-"dailyKos thinkprogress, and politico?

Well I did give the politico piece a chance"
Unfortunately we have to do this every time I post a link from a website that you don't like. Do I criticize Fox and others you bet, but I also READ their material to make sure that absolute and total bias is or isn't present.
I recently had an argument on another thread with a poster who was DELIBERATELY skewing numbers to make teachers look bad, called him out and posted a link to the Macyver institute.
RAF would you please post a list of acceptable websites so I know where to go to get all of the information that you deem relavant? Thanks!

Oh yes and BTW I will bash ANYONE that gets their talking points from blowhards on the radio/TV. I would much rather look for myself and READ , instead of listening to IDIOTS like Belling who recently called all teachers (and he did say all ) a bunh of Greedy, selfish , union freaks who could care less about anyone than themselves. Oner of the most outrageous statements I think I have ever heard.

http://www.jsonline.mobi/more/entertainm...

I know this is a partisan site but an audio clip from Belling that you probably agree with, that makes me wanna PUKE!!

http://democurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2011/...

If RAF, 916WI and wislady would limit the number of their comments and keep them very concise like fearandrhetoric4dummies does, the Gazette site probably wouldn't go down like it did earlier today.

Too funny fear. You consistently bash folks claiming they might watch or listen to fox, rush, belling, and others yet believe the kos and thinkprogress are any different; they are the same thing, just from your side of thinking.

You are so out of touch you actually wrote this; "The fact is that the points made in the Kos article are very valid. Business owners nation wide would much rather use slave labor to produce their goods, whether they are prisoners here or kids in China." Really? List the business owners you KNOW who want this; to use slave or child labor. Not only is it a crime others deserve to know so they can adjust their consumer spending appropriately. You recently climbed all over a poster claiming they were tossing rhetoric around but you seem to be immune from your own criticisms. You my friend are quickly losing any bit of credibility you once had.

The worst part about so many of you is that your responses have become predictable. Did I say that this just started under scooter, no. Does that make it any less moral?
You kill the messenger, and hate the Kos and think progress because they are not in lockstep with every single thought that goes around and around in your head you decide to hate the messengers? The fact is that the points made in the Kos article are very valid. Business owners nation wide would much rather use slave labor to produce their goods, whether they are prisoners here or kids in China. And somehow they are the moral ones? When politicians start doing the same things because of their rampant hate for unions, I have a large problem with that as well. This is slave labor nothing more nothing less. call it over-hype call it whatever helps you sleep at night, its slave labor period. Ask Ron Johnson he knows a thing or two about it.
Is the Js Online okay for you? Or are they another site you think is too left to look at and read?
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/10460...
Save a buck, or use slave labor in a time when people are in need of work? How many more tax dollars are you willing to save to trade for your morality? We report you decide.

dailyKos thinkprogress, and politico?

Well I did give the politico piece a chance. In the very first part they miss-led readers declaring this has just started. FALSE. It has gone on in this state for longer than we have all been alive. The ONLY reason the left fringe is even talking about it is another red herring because of Walker. "If" they did care about this why bring it up now? The Politico picture tells the reason...

Tomorrow's news headline from the left fringe, "Snow in Wisconsin caused by the cold climate because of Walker--Recall Now!".

http://gazettextra.com/photos/2011/nov/3...

There have been numerous experiments performed on human test subjects in the United States that have been considered unethical, and were often performed illegally, without the knowledge, consent, or informed consent of the test subjects.

The experiments include: the deliberate infection of people with deadly or debilitating diseases, exposure of people to biological and chemical weapons, human radiation experiments, injection of people with toxic and radioactive chemicals, surgical experiments, interrogation/torture experiments, tests involving mind-altering substances, and a wide variety of others. Many of these tests were performed on children, the sick, and mentally disabled individuals, often under the guise of "medical treatment". In many of the studies, a large portion of the subjects were poor racial minorities or prisoners.

Funding for many of the experiments was provided by United States government, especially the Central Intelligence Agency, United States military and federal or military corporations. The human research programs were usually highly secretive, and in many cases information about them was not released until many years after the studies had been performed.

The ethical, professional, and legal implications of this in the United States medical and scientific community were quite significant, and led to many institutions and policies that attempted to ensure that future human subject research in the United States would be ethical and legal. Public outcry over the discovery of government experiments on human subjects led to numerous congressional investigations and hearings, including the Church Committee, Rockefeller Commission, and Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments, amongst others.

USA<USA<USA<USA!! gotta make you feel good doesn't it?

http://newsone.com/newsone-original/news...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/13...

Just another great reason to recall these ..............people(grrrrr)
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/071...

the Slavery Convention (article 1.1) in 1926 defined slavery as

"...the status or condition of a person over whom any or all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are exercised…."

The convention defined slave trade as

"...all acts involved in the capture, acquisition or disposal of a person with intent to reduce him to slavery; all acts involved in the acquisition of a slave with a view to selling or exchanging him; all acts of disposal by sale or exchange of a slave acquired with a view to being sold or exchanged, and, in general, every act of trade or transport in slaves by whatever means of conveyance." (article 1.2)

The 1926 Convention's definition of slavery was broadened to include forced or compulsory labor in 1930 in the ILO Convention (No. 29) concerning Forced or Compulsory Labour (article 2.1):

"...all work or service which is exacted from any person under the menace of any penalty and for which the said person has not offered himself voluntarily."

According to the United Nations, 4 million people a year are traded against their will to work in a form of servitude. The majority of them come from Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America.

What is slavery?
To be a slave is to be controlled by another person or persons so that your will does not determine your life's course, and rewards for your work and sacrifices are not yours to claim. According to Kevin Bales, one of the world's leading experts on contemporary slavery, "people are enslaved by violence and held against their wills for purposes of exploitation." While people today most likely believe that slavery is a thing of the past, the practice is still thriving wherever poverty, social conditions, and gullability can be exploited. Bale estimates that there are 27 million slaves in the world today. (Kevin Bales, Disposable People: New Slavery in the Global Economy, University of California Press, 1999)

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/10...
This is where we are headed, mark my words.

But truth in sentencing is moral? Keeping criminals incarcerated for the maximum sentence at a very large cost to your "cash strapped" taxpayers is okay as long as we can use them for slave labor?
Maybe we wouldn't be so beholden to myths about overtaxing if we weren't so sold out on globalism we wouldn't have the economical problems that we have. Oh ya and BTW THE Walker Admin RAISED TAXES/FEES anyway!! So please tell me what the difference is!
Employing slave labor is wrong, PERIOD! Dont like taxes going up this is far from the reason why. Just because you hate unions that is no reason to be immoral.

vatoloco, you've become one of the last people on the right who still presents valid points and facts, without the vulgarity. I don't fault any politician for trying to streamline operations, but to take jobs away from law abiding citizens trying their best to raise their families and care for themselves and give their jobs to prisoners is wrong. We now have two people making no money and the state potentially supporting two families instead of one. It makes no financial sense whatsoever. Offering a job to a prisoner in return for a reduced sentence is wrong. If these prisoners are of so little threat to the community that they can work outside of prison and have their sentences reduced solely on the basis of working, then they should be released from prison early and save the state the cost of incarceration.

Fear....so your suggestion is raising the taxes of already strapped taxpayers so the respective communities can hire unionized labor to do the same jobs that the prisoners could do without a tax increase?? The prisoners are not being forced take on these jobs, they volunteer for them.....the communities making the best use of the limited resources they have available is what you consider immoral??

Poo.......Sorry--I was in a hurry--The sentence should have read "both articles referenced that this was being done due to budget cuts/lack of resources". I completely agree with the projects. The communities should definitely get something in return for the investment they make in the prisoners........especially considering the fact that these communities don't have the funds to maintain their existing infrastructure. I understand why the unions are against it(their greed overrides the benefit this program offers the community) but I do not understand why someone removed from the situation would be against using this resource??

No RAF I don't think the sky is falling because of Walker and I didn't think the sky was falling when Walker kept telling us it was.

I have ALWAYS had a problem with anyone using prison labor, especially when we have plenty of folks out there looking for and not able to find a decent job!! Its called values.

I have a problem that this is even allowed in our society , that anyone can do this public or private is WRONG. RoN Johnson did this at his plastics factory to "create jobs" Excellent!! Wrong no matter how you paint it not just because of the christmas tree issue, I could care less who does it. But hey call it over hyped, I call it immoral. I thought you conservatives were of high morality? Guess that doesn't count when you are trying to save a buck.

poobah!!! Get off that 'puter! It's time to wash your shorts! For crying out loud when will you start using the stool like normal kids your age?!? And stop eating all those sticky snacks at the desk! I don't have much more patience for this! I SAID NOW!

Oh 916WI, it IS being done, it HAS been done and it will CONTINUE to be done. Make no mistake about it.

Actually poop both articles referenced that the was not being done due to budget cuts/a lack of resources......

From the first article--"Inmates were first released from the Racine County Jail last June to cut the grass, a task that was being neglected by county workers because of budget cuts."

From the second article--"He plans to start using inmates for more county work in the next few weeks. The use of inmates will not result in any public works staff reductions"
According to your link, the union tried to force the county to spend money it didn't have demanding that the county hire union labor to do the work......
The closing of the "Think Progress"article was classic! "While giving prisoners more work and activity options is generally positive, using free inmate labor to replace public sector workers is a disturbing trend."
"Free inmate labor"?? Obviously "Think Progress" doesn't consider the millions of dollars spent housing, feeding, clothing, etc the inmates as an expense Wisconsin's taxpayers should take into consideration......

The following article gives us a great insight into what Walker will expand on if he is left in office for his full term. He's taking good paying jobs with benefits away from law abiding citizens and sending them to China. Oops wait, I didn't mean China, I meant to Wisconsin prisoners!
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http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/0...
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One question for RAF and 916WI. Do the jobs Walker is taking away from law abiding citizens and giving to prisoners in exchange for REDUCED SENTENCES count as a new job under Walker's campaign promise to create 250,000 new jobs?
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http://www.journaltimes.com/news/local/g...

but RAF........The only thing your examples are, are state sponsored SLAVERY!!(I used all caps for dramatic effect:)) How dare the state's taxpayers expect anything in return for housing, feeding and clothing these people! Taxpayers should simply be expected to provide them with free healthcare, free fitness facilities, free education and in return the only expectation from the prisoners is that they don't act up while they are sitting around in the air conditioning watching cable tv. It makes so much more sense to have the taxpayers pay $30-40K per person/per year to let this group of people sit around and do nothing and then with the same breath ask them to cough up another $40K a year to hire someone to mow lawns and pick up trash........doesn't it??:)
This is almost as pathetic as the ranting and raving of the anti-Walker people when Walker increased state spending by $1 billion........of course conveniently forgetting to take into consideration that he allocated $1.2 billion more toward Medicaid spending......I can't wait to see what failure of an argument that they come up with next.......

The lunacy from the left fringe attacking everything in the state and claiming the sky is falling, because of walker, has reached a new PEAK! Prison labor is now all of a sudden a HUGE problem all because of walker and a christmas tree.

Where were you people when the Badger State Industries (BSI) State of Wisconsin Prison Industries Program was created? Why have you been silent over the 13 industries within 11 correctional facilities through out the state?

http://www.buybsi.com/aboutbsi.html

http://vendornet.state.wi.us/vendornet/b...

Try to be honest in your over-hyped hatred and at least complain about something that matters and stop making up stupid stuff to be upset over that you ignored in the past because it never was a problem at all...because your guy was in office.

Vato is harmless, just like me:)(And funny to talk to BTW) Its these other weirdos that scare me, got me thinking that they will be snapping soon(Metallica tune). Da dadada , daaaa daaaa daaaa , da dadada, daaaa daaaa daaa.(Guitar music)

I just love the idea of having slave labor to do public works when they are supposed to be INCARCERATED. They can serve their community as a part of their peroll, not as a part of their sentence. If they get work release then pay them as such. This whole discussion is absolutely RIDICULOUS. Hate the unions all you like, even without them, handing public service positions to convicted criminals? Again , I hope and pray that Walker and the repubs run on that point, a winner for sure:)

Ezoner? You want my comments removed? :=( And I thought you deep down loved my posts. What a Christmas bummer!

Thats a great Idea, instead of providing jobs for people willing to work , we should just now hire prisoners that are supposed to be incarcerated to be our slaves! What a great idea for job creation!! I certainly hope that the republicans run on that one!!
Who needs state workers and evil unions when we have prisons full of criminals to do it all for us! Hilarious!! Personally I would rather volunteers decorate the State tree than criminals. But hey as long as you save a few bucks, whatever works! Nice Christmas spirit.
Maybe next we could have the inmates dress up like Santa at the malls for the kids? Or maybe we should hire them a plow drivers?

Vato.....That's unfortunate. Hopefully Walker will introduce reforms which address prisoners actually contributing to our state, through work projects like that--as opposed to just letting them suck resources from the state as has been done in the past........It will save the state's taxpayers money in every regard......

EZoner---Poo is off in his own little fantasy world again. Now we're comparing government subsidies to costs related to prisoner expenses. I am quite sure that my portion of the subsidies are covered in the property taxes, federal income taxes, state income taxes, fuel taxes, sales taxes, etc that I pay every year. Tell me Poo--How much money every year do prisoners contribute toward their housing expenses, food expenses, clothing expenses? Would zero be an accurate number? And you thought you were being bold by saying that the bread that I buy might be a few cents cheaper because the government subsidizes the farmers with tax dollars that I gave them, so I should "owe" them as well? Seriously? Just when I thought that the analogies around here couldn't get any more stupid, someone goes and proves me completely wrong:)

Yeah, I agree vatoloco. The state of healthcare in this country is deplorable. It's very sad when people feel the only way of obtaining healthcare is to become incarcerated. We pay twice the per person average of the next 19 highest cost countries and achieved a ranking of 37th from an analysis of World Health Organization data for healthcare quality. Our Veterans Administration is a single payer, national system for veterans. Why can't a system like that be expanded to cover everyone and eliminate the maze of Medicare, Medicaid, federal, state and private healthcare programs?

916WI felt since taxpayers were subsidizing prisoners food, housing and clothing they should be expected to pick up trash along the highways. I was just pointing out to 916WI that the government (taxpayers) subsidizes many, if not most, of those same items that 916WI uses. So why shouldn't 916WI don some striped clothes on their next bike ride and pick up the trash?

Another example of scooter's corporate welfare: Spectrum Brands (maker or Ray-o-Vac batteries, among other things) just got a $4 million forgivable loan to keep 500 jobs in Madison that the company said they had no intention of moving anyway
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Millions to corporations, the shaft to citizens.

Poo -- I am not sure I understand your comments to 916W. But all subsisides should be elimiinated unless there is a sabstandtial risk to US independence. Like Oil exploration being one. We could live without alt energy now. We cannot live without oil now.

I am so sick of hearing about this day in and day out. He is doing what he promised he would do and now because of that you want to recall him. Shame on you people. We should have recalled Doyle a long time ago then. My tax payer dollars at work once again.

916WI, you apparently have no idea how much government (taxpayers) subsidizes your food, housing and clothing. Low interest rate mortgages guaranteed by the government. Underpriced timber rights. Farm subsidies. Tax breaks for textile industries.

Comment #500.....'nuff said.

Fear(and endless rhetoric), I believe that it has been pointed out that there is a difference between public and private unions. see RetiredAirForce Nov 30, 2011 at 3:39 a.m.
Let's see.... FDR was a different time but Reagan wasn't....hmmmmm.
Your spinning is making me dizzy.

RAF - my source re: $12 v. $1 came from the Green Bay Press Gazette (a pretty conservative paper) on the last Sat. in Feb. during the protests.
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I figure if it's in the newspaper, it must be true :)

Ok -- so when some jerk simply dislikes valid, non-offensive comments they ask for removal? That would mean I could ask that every comment by Poo or Fear be removed.

I stand by my comments -- the recall is a waste of time and money. If the recall organization, spent 1/2 the time they are investing into a positive exercize, like, feeding the hungry, helping their neighbor, send their contributions to the schools, just doing something meaningful, as opposed to only being a negative force, the community and country would be a much better place to live. They need to let Walker complete his term and then during the next election, they can find someone to run against him. In the meantime, do something positive.

Spin Reagans comments? He was a UNION president!! So exactly how is that spin? I do understand that this was 2 months before he got elected and the teleprompter took him over.
Just go to youtube and look up the speech he gave, I didn't take it out of context. Just because Ron is the GOD of the modern conservative movement , people have a hard time believing he could actually support unions so vehemently, he did until becoming president. Nefore the neo-cons and alzhiemers got a hold of him he was a really decent man.
That being said RAF I understand the comments made by FDR and I do believe that was a much different time. That being said I believe that if we as a nation would have followed FDR's second bill of rights we would be a MUCH stronger nation, would have universal health care, would have a better education system, and would be much stronger heading forward. As it is the Reagan/Bush/Clinton presidencies have set us up for 50 years of struggles, HUGE struggles that may end up tearing this nation to shreds.

too funny poo:) I understand that you happen to be one of those sensitive libs that believes it was never the criminals fault--they were a victim of circumstance--right? I'm sure you think it was societies fault that they were forced into a life of crime.......What a complete tool you are!
For the record, if the state was willing cover my mortgage, food and utility expenses, I would gladly spend a couple of hours a week cleaning up my neighborhood.........

fearandrhetoric4dummies is not only the master of the thread filibuster but a student of the spin.
Ever heard of context?
Every Reagan quote you used is out of context and/or spun to your delight.

Next time you head out for a bike ride, 916WI, put on some striped clothes and pick the junk up yourself. After all, look at how much the taxpayers are paying to subsidize your food, housing and clothing.

Fear...Where did this comment--"Oh ya , BTW the Governor is using prison labor to decorate the state Christmas tree with prison labor? That is a great one for a political commercial to come don't you think? LOL what an absolute a**! This guy deserves everything he gets IMO." come from??
We're paying a minimum of $30,000/yr to feed, house, and clothe these people--Are you saying that asking them to decorate a tree is expecting too much in return for that?? Would you rather have Walker pull state employees away from their jobs and pay someone $18-$20 an hour to place tinsel on tree branches?? Seriously--you people always find away to turn everything the governor does into something to cry and whine about!!
Hopefully, this is the start of more of this. When I was driving from the airport to Winston Salem in NC a couple of months ago, they had groups of prisoners cleaning up the interstate both coming from and going to the airport. I did notice that their roads were crazy clean. Why aren't we seeing things like this done in Wisconsin. I bike around here and there's crap all over on the sides of the roads. It would make so much sense to get some sort of ROI on the costs it takes to house/care for these people, but if we forced them away from their cable TV and air conditioned living spaces the liberals in this state would be screaming cruel and unusual punishment.......

"So are you saying you think that Scott Walker will carry Rock or Grant counties in the recalls? Or are those just farmers on the highway?"
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The observation was a non-scientific reporting. An area that he did not carry had ~equal support-against signs along the roadway. In case you didn't know, farmers vote too.

"with citizens united how can you track where the money is coming from? On either side? Open secrets doesn't have those figures."
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This was also the problem with McCain Feingold, creating the 501c(4) mess to hide money as well.

fear you don't get it, most on the right have no problems with private unions. Reagan, if you forgot, stood up against a public union and fired them all; air traffic controllers.

President Franklin Delano Roosevelt 1937: "All government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service."

1959 the AFL-CIO Executive Council stated that "government workers have no right [to collectively bargain] beyond the authority to petition Congress—a right available to every citizen."

There are plenty more, should I go on?

RAF with citizens united how can you track where the money is coming from? On either side? Open secrets doesn't have those figures.

RAF- So are you saying you think that Scott Walker will carry Rock or Grant counties in the recalls? Or are those just farmers on the highway?

""I want more than anything I’ve ever wanted, to have an administration that will, through its actions, at home and in the international arena, let millions of people know that Miss Liberty still “Lifts her lamp beside the golden door.” Through our international broadcasting stations -- the Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, and the others -- let us send, loud and clear, the message that this generation of Americans intends to keep that lamp shining; that this dream, this last best hope of man on earth, this nation under God, shall not perish from the earth. We will instead carry on the building of an American economy that once again holds forth real opportunity for all, we shall continue to be a symbol of freedom and guardian of the eternal values that so inspired those who came to this port of entry.

Let us pledge to each other, with this Great Lady looking on, that we can, and so help us God, we will make America great again.""

Amen Ron, this version of Ron would never have bought into the globalization scam that has destroyed our country. How this man won as a republican may have been a tribute to how great an actor he was. Because he surely was not in charge during his administration.

Best one of all that is sure to make all of you Reaganites fall off your chairs:
""These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland. The values that have inspired other dissidents under Communist domination. They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost. They remind us that freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. You and I must protect and preserve freedom here or it will not be passed on to our children. Today the workers in Poland are showing a new generation not how high is the price of freedom but how much it is worth that price.""

Ronald Reagan was a UNION PRESIDENT!!! Of course this speech was given BEFORE he won office and was programmed by the neocons, and BEFORE he had the onset of Alzhiemers in 1983 (According to his son).
I think if Reagan came along today he would surely be a Democrat, wouldn't he?

RAF hwy 11? Rural? I would almost say that there is more shock on my part that you saw any recall signs in rural areas. I generally stay on the interstates and cities so that is my reference.
Fair enough on the Abe Lincoln quote, should we try Ronaldo Reagan?

""As president of my union -- the Screen Actors Guild -- I spent many hours with the late George Meany, whose love of this country and whose belief in a strong defense against all totalitarians is one of labor’s greatest legacies.""

More Reagan:
""When we talk about tax reduction, when we talk about ending inflation by stopping it where it starts -- in Washington -- we are talking about a way to bring labor and management together for America. We are talking about jobs, and productivity and wages. We are talking about doing away with Jimmy Carter’s view of a no-growth policy, and ever-shrinking economic pie with smaller pieces for each of us.

That’s no answer. We can have a bigger pie with bigger slices for everyone. I believe that together you and I can bake that bigger pie. We can make that dream that brought so many of us or our parents and grandparents to this land live once more.""
WOW what a socialist!!

MCD said: "remember that for every dollar unions spend on politicians, big business spends 12"
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Really? Do you have any real information to back that up?

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php...

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/indexp.p...

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/index_st...

fear, what public union did Abraham Lincoln stand behind...oh yeah there wern't any then. Hmmmmm.

" get out your pro-Walker signs, again still not seeing any, really anywhere outside Walkersha county."
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I drove Hwy 11 from Rock to Grant county, and back this week. Just as many signs for walker as against; and that was through two counties that voted more for barrett and feingold than against.

The funniest thing about the recall efforts is the whining from Republicans that recall elections are just crazy, out of line, blah, blah, blah… Forget the fact that Republicans have tried to recall Governor Doyle and Senators Feingold and Kohl in the past.

Thanks to the Wayback Machine, you can still access Republican-funded “First Breath Alliance”, an anti-choice group that unsuccessfully tried to recall Feingold and Kohl that Walker supported:

We are First Breath Alliance, a Wisconsin state-wide, non-profit alliance of independent citizens dedicated to recalling our two pro-abortion U.S. senators, Russ Feingold and Herb Kohl. Feingold and Kohl have consistently voted against the right to life of the unborn. A recall would force a special election which could unseat one or both senators.

Walker supported that Republican recall effort in 1997 and received $697.42 to his campaign for his support.

Then there’s the failed recall efforts from Republican Chris Kliesmet, who is part of the Walker front group “Citizens for Responsible Government” group, who tried to recall Governor Doyle:

Kleismet, king of recalls, can’t seem to recall that his band of not-so-merry men tried to recall Governor Jim Doyle, not once, but twice. The first one was in 2005 and, of course, failed. The second flop came last year, when they tried it again.

At least it will be transparent. I am sure many will comb the signatures looking for problems. This is the way it should be.
There are software applications that can and will be used to get rid of the duplicates. Does anyone really think that these people want to go through all this just to lose the fight? The FACT remains that we will have a recall election, I would bet the house on it.

"Knowingly signing the petition mulitiple times is a felony"
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I agree with the sentiment that it should be, unfortunately it’s not. There is no law that forbids signing more than once. The GAB has even declared they won’t be checking to hard for it either. It will be up to others to challenge multiple signatures to have them removed them from the count tally. All sheets become public information after they are turned in, then all can see and check them.

"If any man tells you he loves America and hates labor, he is a liar. If any man tells you he trusts America , yet fears labor, he is a fool."
-Abraham Lincoln
a well renowned socialist.

I did my part and voted!!!! Yeah! Now do they have a petition for Eric Levitt?

sure havent seen any.
nice job birdbrain, using the recall to bash teachers, even with all the rhetoric no hidden videos yet of teachers getting 1st graders to sign? its coming, just like the video of the 2 black kids that signed, until they proved they were adults!!LOL, get out your pro-Walker signs, again still not seeing any, really anywhere outside Walkersha county.
What'll you bet thier election numbers won't be back till 2 days after the recall elections have been over. Don't think Kathy will be able to help this time.

BTW- I am guessing that the dems aren't coming out because the democrats want this to be a referendum on Walker. Plus why open their candidate to extra scritiny when the signatures haven't even been gathered yet? I find it so funny that the repubs want the candidate announced right now!! You don't get to make the rules, at least not yet, as far as I can tell the recallers are following them, no matter the efforts of the righties to shout them down.

Ya let's hear it for unions. They helped US cars become over priced and killed the plant that nearly built this city. They supress the hard working and those who excell (you make the rest of us look bad). In Green Bay at a paper mill some UNION thugs killed a co-worker after he reported an employee theft situation to management. Ya, let's make them stronger and bolder, maybe some day we will be a great nation like France. I want to know where I can get a Walker for governor sign.

Recall: NO!
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I’ll be making my own homemade signs. Get the message out. “Recall: No”
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Make your own signage and place them in your car window, and so on. Wait for election day and let the chips fall.
. . .
Hmm, I wonder where all that money has come from for the “Recall Walker” bumper stickers, lawn signs, and so on. There wouldn't be any "big money" from suspect sources, would there?
. . .
And Blue Fists in the classroom‽ Is that true? 'Glad my kids are out of school and not coerced and bullied by a teacher wearing that! That would be straining 1st Amendment, in my opinion. Bad judgement.
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Children lack the mechanisms to cope with undue...unfair...pressure exerted by those grownups who hold the grade book and other power over them.

Knowingly signing the petition mulitiple times is a felony and you just left the evidence. LOLO. Time for the right wing dimwits to end up where they belong, in jail with Walker.

""the man do his job -- personally - I could care less about the R or the D. I dont pay much attention to that "" Cmon Ezoner YES YOU DO!! Anyone who reads your posts knows that. You are a partisan, hiding behind statements like that makes me laugh.
Of coourse after a year the republicans can recall anyone that replaces Governor Walker. Would like to see if the conservatives could organize that well. Or they will all be too busy "working".:)

"It happens on both sides. Why is it that public sector unions need to spend millions on lobbying also?"
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vato, remember that for every dollar unions spend on politicians, big business spends 12.
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I do agree with you that things will not change significantly depending on the letter ( D or R) of the leader of our country. As the song says: "Meet the new boss, the same as the old boss".
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spark, the Dems are lying low right now. Smart move by them; anybody who declares now will just be subject to that many more months of attacks by the right. And they really can't throw a hat into the ring without a ring (there is officially no election until the GAB says there is one after verifying the signatures).

vatoloco, I couldn't agree with you more, given the current state of politics in America. I had just retrieved one of my older posts to paste into the comments on another article and it said almost exactly what you just said.
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poobah said, "And the gamesmanship continues. They all deserve whatever electoral fate awaits them. Nothing will change until we kick corporate America out of politics, kick private money out of politics and kick political parties out of our electoral system, right along with the electoral college. Two major political parties only serves to drive a wedge between Americans and distract us with petty bickering over absurdly insignificant issues."

vatoloco, regardless of the reasons why the recall was set in motion, this is a referendum on the direction Walker has taken the state. The voters will decide whether to continue with him or with another person as governor, all of which is provided for by our state Constitution. It is kind of a big deal when a governor is recalled. It has happened only twice in the history of America, and both times the incumbent was defeated.

spark said, "poobah - You need a worthy candidate first. So it's ok for the left to spend money recalling, but not the right. You lefties crack me up. And for those admitting below you signed the petition more than once, thanks. Lol. You are proving a lot for the future."
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spark, I think it's within the rights of any person or group to attempt to recall. I never suggested otherwise. I just think an attempt to recall the newly elected Democrat governor would fail. And as far as unclesmoothie boasting about how he signed petitions 20 times, he is a Walker supporter, spark. If you'd been closely following his posts, you would see where he had announced he was going to do this as a Walker supporter. And yes, we agree that is proving quite a bit for the future of the Republican party in Wisconsin.

poobah - You need a worthy candidate first. So it's ok for the left to spend money recalling, but not the right. You lefties crack me up. And for those admitting below you signed the petition more than once, thanks. Lol. You are proving a lot for the future.

Ezoner said, "No -- now the Dem will be recalled, and another election will be held."
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That's if you're able to get enough signatures to recall the new Democrat governor. Highly unlikely and in that case the only thing wasted will be the money and time spent by people having failed to get enough signatures. Recalling Walker is not a waste of money. It's the smartest investment Wisconsin could make right now.

300,000? That's all? I have signed at least 20 times.

RAF said, "So what were the derivatives comprised of? Oh yeah, risky mortgages..."
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RAF, whether you know it or not, you are referring to credit default swaps, just one of many forms of derivatives. CDS's have been around before Glass-Steagall was repealed. And it wasn't until several years after Glass-Steagall was repealed that the problem with CDS's (trading of naked CDS's) reared it's ugly head. CDS's prior to that time were used as primarily as hedging instruments. Once firms started trading naked CDS's (where the buyer does not own the underlying assets of the CDS) they moved from being a hedging instrument to a purely speculative instrument and it was off to the races. There are many different types of swaps that do NOT involve mortgage or loan commitments -- credit swaps, interest rate swaps, currency swaps, etc. This is not a problem limited to mortgages and it's time Congress took action on it -- as many European governments have.

300,000 signatures from about 100,000 people

So what were the derivatives comprised of? Oh yeah, risky mortgages...

RAF, I clearly said, "The banking/mortgage crisis and bailouts weren't nearly as much a case of hard-working families gambling their savings to buy a home as it was both Democrats and Republicans in the House and Senate repealing most provisions of the Glass-Steagall Act." That statement does NOT in any way suggest repeal of Glass-Steagall was the ONLY cause. Indeed, the statement INCLUDES as one cause exactly what you had suggested!

yeah poo, had nothing at all to do with individual buyers purchasing more home than they could afford...

The banking/mortgage crisis and bailouts weren't nearly as much a case of hard-working families gambling their savings to buy a home as it was both Democrats and Republicans in the House and Senate repealing most provisions of the Glass-Steagall Act. The repeal, under the guise of strengthening the American banking system, allowed the huge banks like Citigroup and insurance companies like American International Group to gamble depositors money in investment securities and derivatives. We all know the disastrous results.

fear, I have no issues over political donations. I wish all were public and not buried in the mess created by McCain Feingold. If a person accepts money fine, just make it public knowledge. To me it is no differant than a person like Kohl financing it themselves.

If people bought what they could afford, homes, there wouldn't be so many foreclosures. There were many gamblers playing the bubble expecting the growth to continue, without proper fallback measures if it failed. There is nothing wrong with investing in something as long as you can afford to absorb a loss if it happens. Getting out over your skis and then complaining it wasn’t your fault is really just ignoring the obvious; accept responsibility and don’t gamble your families future over stupid moves, just because your neighbor did.

300,000 signatures in 12 days and the rate of gathering signatures in the last eight days has only slowed by about 7% from the first four days. Now running at a clip of 24,375 signatures per day. Walker's recall will be only the third gubernatorial recall in the history of America and in both of the prior recalls the incumbent lost.

""There is nothing wrong with borrowing what you can afford to pay back"" isn't that the reason there was a housing bubble? Because folks though they knew and didnt? Then globalism sets in, then the banks collapse and everything you thought you knew about what you could pay back is out the window, a chain reaction that is still working its way through the system worldwide.

Funny I have emailed Scott Walker (office) about 10 times about a whole hoard of issues, and have yet to recieve even an automated response, so whats your point? Do you really need an answer why we need campaign finance reform? Isnt it obvious? Smart guy like you should have that answer. Maybe you should send an email to Paul Ryan and ask him why he accepts money from who he does. Personally I am supportig Buddy Roemer for president. He is a republican, but has been told that he is not allowed in the televised debates because he hasnt raised 500k in the last 30 days? A four term republican legislator and elected governor can't get on a national debate, but a pizza executive with sex assault problems and affairs can? Really?
I happen to disagree with the senator on the term limits issue, doesn't mean I don't find him to be honest and honorable man. Not feeling the same about our current governor, for a whole list of reasons.

fear speaking of hypocrisy, I have e-mails from russ (his office?) answering two simple questions.

The first was please institute term limits for all federal elected positions. His response was there was no need for term limits because the people, voters, had all the power to make their choice.

The next simple question was about his comments pertaining to the court decision on McCain Feingold. His response was this was needed because the voter had no power because of the money involved.

I wrote back to his office three times asking for clarification on his position of who has the power voters, like he first said, or money. All three remained unanswered. If he could not stand by his own words why should I vote for him? The silence, by him, proved to me he was in no way interested in term limits because it was not in his or his parties favor.

"My point was not to make excuses for the culture in which we live, it was merely to point out that how many households have balanced budgets? My guess is less than 5%."
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There is nothing wrong with borrowing what you can afford to pay back. But the current us administration is borrowing ~.40 for each dollar it spends at the same time revenues to the govt are lower...how is that a smart move? There is no way a typical family could afford to do that, but the typical family is expected to pay the taxes to get govt out of the hole they generate(d).

"I would also like to remind you that taxes are collected to be spent on public services."
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So why are they being spent on payments for borrowed dollars wasted before we had them?

12 days and 300,000 , any doubts about there being a recall election?

vato- since we are talking real numbers here the "billion dollar tax hike" is a fake number:
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/stat...

Or maybe just a perception/context issue. More like 290 million in tax "hikes".
Of course the shell game that politicians like to play is ignored when it comes to taxes. Scott Walker didn't raise taxes? Aren't fees the state charges essentially the same thing? They certainly were when Jim Doyle was doing it, why not when Scott Walker does it, because fees are on the rise, significantly, under his administration. Example up to a 16% tuition hike at UW alone.
let us not play the tax game, because they are all guilty of it, even the Eagle scout.

RAF - You are correct , Barrett is a career politician as well. Unfortunately for you, I am not one of the people that said that was a problem with honest men serving , like a Russ Fiengold. That particular rhetoric was almost exclusively owned by the right wing. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the folks that used that as their main focus to remove Fiengold, yet support a "career politician" in Scott Walker to the grave, just curious about the inconsistency.

Yes 916 the article says about a BILLIONin immediate cuts along with the future revenue cuts that won't be allowed by Walker's budget. No matter how you choose to break it down this is a cut of 1.6 billion dollars in revenue over the next 2 years. I understand the argument that the 600 million being a worst case scenario, but shouldnt we assume the worst case since the Walker administration has been nothing but chicken little since they took control? Claiming broke when we are not? Again I listed several much more qualified people than myself , you, RAF or any of us that wholeheartedly disagree with the assertions made by the Walker administration?

I would also like to remind you that taxes are collected to be spent on public services. Not like the fund 10 balance that is taken each year from the teachers insurance pool and herded into a "checking account" to pay for other district expenses, while so many in this community are asking them to open their contract? Maybe return the 30 million plus that has been moved and just put it back into the health insurance fund where it comes from each year? Then maybe we wouldn't have such a local defecit in the district.
Again , you can put all the zeros behind your numer to sensationalize it all you like, my point is, tell me one family that isn't unbelievably underwater so they can own a home. Is there any other way in these times with home prices still being so high. Who can just come up with 200,000 dollars to purchase a home? Wages are coming down, prices are high and will continue to creep up, at some point something had to give , circa 2007-2008 crisis. What I get tired of hearing from certain folks is," We all have to balance our budgets in our households, why doesn't the government?" My point was not to make excuses for the culture in which we live, it was merely to point out that how many households have balanced budgets? My guess is less than 5%. Again, not making excuses, just saying. Maybe the older folks that do own their homes should think about that part of it when they make such arguments. Should younger families not own homes, until they can purchase them? In the 1970's you could buy a home for 30,000 dollars, even with outrageous interest rates it was affordable for most and they were owning their homes in 10-15 years. Now , even with LOW interest rates you purchase a home for 200,000 face value and after 30 years and a low rate you pay more than double that amount, DOUBLE!! Maybe society needs to be flipped, for the benefit of us all. At some point I believe it will. There is a currency crisis of unknown proportions coming(Gold bubble) people thought the housing crisis was bad, just wait.

justonepost I applaud your thinking, where was it 2-3 years ago?

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LASST5500...

"sittingat"?

From the Janesville Gazette YESTERDAY:
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"""The state Department of Workforce Development reported that Wiscons lost 9,300 PRIVATE SECTOR jobs last month and 9,700 overall - MORE THAN ANY OTHER STATE."""
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We, the people of Wisconsin, have a unique opportunity to fix this problem. We made a mistake and elected someone who SOLD US OUT to the highest bidder.
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If the numbers above are not enough to convince you...partisanship must be more important than our state and your neighbors.

Reminder.....Doyle budget cuts to schools

http://madisonamps.org/2009/06/01/wiscon...

fear......Your comment, "Of a 2 year budget of 66+ billion dollars to have a 3 billion or less than 5% defecit isnt nearly as bad as the everyday household that so many would have the government model itself after. So please spare me the rational persons rhetoric, it really makes me laugh." makes me laugh:)..........It is an excellent example of why this country is in the mess it is today. "We're only spending 5% more than we make every year--it's such a small number and considering other people are spending 10% more than they take in--we're doing great!" Seriously?? That's how you justify living totally beyond your means and having a complete lack of fiscal restraint?? If a $3,600,000,000 deficit is nothing to worry about, at what point does it become an issue? Should we wait until that debt compounds to over $7 billion after the next budget cycle, or maybe wait until it hits $11 billion a few administrations down the line?? When it hits double digits, will it no longer be something to laugh about??
I see your numbers are contradicting themselves as well. You quote Walker cutting education by $1.6 billion and then another article you quote to attempt to make a point pegs the number at "about $1 billion"......Which number is it?? Or is that extra $600,000,000 so trivial in your budget calculations that it should just be laughed at??

"I thought you republicans hated "career politicians" , what is Scott? Voted agains Russ because he was one, why do you vote for Scott? Its all about a letter, period."
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Ummm I now the election was almost a year ago and perhaps you don't remember the ballot. Of the two party ticket it was a choice between 2 career politicians. The guy with your "letter" lost...

"So according to the Moody’s debt ranking, Wisconsin fares well when compared with other states. That’s one measure of the state’s fiscal health."
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Hilarious! The lefts view on this, "see, other states are willing to be more in debt. Hurry let's follow them off the cliff too!"

"I could have waited to see what Walker's plans were, had he chsen to negotiate and ask for concessions, which he likely would have gotten."
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LOL, this is the fallacy of the left. They carefully/cluelessly choose to forget the union dealings under Doyle. They carefully/cluelessly forget how a union contract was signed just before Doyle left office. They carefully/cluelessly forget how the unions around state rushed through contracts before the law was signed...yeah, they wanted to deal too; ROFL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsHXJr8tq...
This is the Ronald Reagan moment for Scooter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yecslGvFV...

916 to your 3.6 billion in defecit being BROKE, and talking about a "rational person" relationship. Hmmm, I wonder if a rational person has any debt? Do rational people carry credit card balance? Hows about a mortage? Most folks are way below water in their homes compared to what their yearly income might be. An average home owner makes more than they owe on their home? Are they irresponsible or "not living within their means?".
Of a 2 year budget of 66+ billion dollars to have a 3 billion or less than 5% defecit isnt nearly as bad as the everyday household that so many would have the government model itself after. So please spare me the rational persons rhetoric, it really makes me laugh.

I thought you republicans hated "career politicians" , what is Scott? Voted agains Russ because he was one, why do you vote for Scott? Its all about a letter, period.

While Walker may have indeed run on a broader "what's right for Wisconsin" platform, his oft-repeated suggestions that his post-election moves are entirely in line with his campaign-era promises don't appear to stand up.

Politifact has deemed "False" Walker's claim that he campaigned throughout the election on even the most controversial proposals contained in the budget repair bill -- such as ending collective bargaining rights for public workers.
This has been a theme on this blog for months, and it needs to be highlighted in publicity about Walker and the need for his recall.

Walker has had 36 statements vetted by PolitiFact in the last year, and 24 of them are rated as "Mostly False," "False," or "Pants on Fire," - - the most for any Wisconsin politician.

Furthermore, Walker has not been rated "Mostly True," or "True" by PolitiFact since May 8th, PolitiFact records show.

Is this the kind of person that should be leading this state?

More qualified folks than I certainly don't buy the rhetoric, but hey if the Walker administration says it it must be true, right? Don't hold them accountable for job loss, its Obamas fault. Dont hold them accountable for spending increases, its Doyles fault. Oh ya did I forget to mention that the reform are working? They raised taxes/fees(whats the difference) its the hated word by republicans , REVENUE!

Andrew Reschovsky, a UW-Madison professor of public affairs and finance, said use of the term didn’t make sense when it comes to the state’s financial situation.

"That’s obviously absurd," Reschovsky said. "We obviously aren’t broke. The analogy to a household is really a fallacious one."

He said the government has powerful tools at its disposal to make ends meet: taxes or manipulating fees. You could also put off some spending or shift some debt into the next fiscal year -- tricks that state budget offices have routinely used.

Walker has taken tax increases off of the table. He proposed in his budget-repair bill to restructure the state’s debt, pushing some payments off into the future.

"For the amount of money that we’re talking about there’s a wide range of things that could be done," Reschovsky said.

The $137 million deficit in the budget year ending June 30 represents about 0.456 percent of the $30 billion state budget, or less than half of 1 percent. The projected $3.6 billion deficit for the next two-year budget is more serious: about 12 percent of the overall budget.

Connie Kilmark, owner of a Madison firm that consults people in financial trouble, said of Walker’s "broke" rhetoric: "It’s just not true. He’s trying to scare us all."

The state has taxing power, and revenue is continuing to flow in -- both key factors in making ends meet, she said. As the economic recovery continues, tax revenue is expected to actually rise $1.5 billion in the next two-year period, according to the Legislative Fiscal Bureau.

Ralph Anzivino, a Marquette University Law School professor who teaches bankruptcy law, said, "Broke is a lay term, a street term."

He said it would be more accurate to say that the state was insolvent but has options at its disposal to put its house in order. They include: raising taxes, laying off workers and cutting costs or finding other savings.

Then there is this perspective from within state government itself.

"The state is no more broke than it was two, four or 10 years ago," said Frank Hoadley, capital finance director with the state Department of Administration.

"There’s always a huge gap" as budget deliberations begin, he said. "And it always gets hammered out."

In unveiling his two-year budget, Walker cut aid to local schools and government by about $1 billion. But the proposal, which now goes to the Legislature, included new spending in some areas, including adding $1 million in raises for prosecutors, $993,800 for additional public defenders and $1.04 million to investigate Internet crimes against children.

On the opposite side of the ledger, the budget reduced revenue by some $140 million through a variety of tax cuts, including ones aimed at businesses and individuals with Health Savings Accounts.

"I don't have anything to negotiate," Walker said Feb. 11, 2011, the day he unveiled his budget-repair bill, aimed at closing a $137 million gap in the budget that ends June 30, 2011. "We are broke in this state. We have been broke for years."

Since then, he’s repeated the phrase many times.
Meanwhile, in January 2011, Moody’s issued a national report that combined state debt and pension liabilities. Moody’s studies and rates debt issued by governments and corporations, and its ratings can affect how much those issuing bonds will have to pay in interest.

The report says that combining those obligations makes it easier to compare the fiscal health of states. Those with the highest ratings have the most serious debt burdens, which makes them less appealing to investors.

Wisconsin’s rating was 37th as measured by the amount of debt per capita, 38th (debt by GDP) 39 (by personal income) and 41 (by revenue).

"States’ liability rankings versus revenue or economic measures tend to be indicative of the nature of risks these states carry in funding their obligations over the long term," the report says.

So according to the Moody’s debt ranking, Wisconsin fares well when compared with other states. That’s one measure of the state’s fiscal health.

I could have waited to see what Walker's plans were, had he chsen to negotiate and ask for concessions, which he likely would have gotten. I will say it once again, had he ran on cutting 1.6 billion from education FUNDING, and destruction of collective bargaining he would have been beaten soundly by Barrett.
I have no problem with teachers contributing a little more, but at what point are you making the career itself less attractive to well-qualified candidates? At what point do you stop cutting and slashing? If you think a teacher's health insurance plan is any better than yours, I will tell you that you are wrong(firsthand knowledge) the only difference being they pay less than most do for premiums. The plan itself is very similar to the one I have had in the private sector for the last 15 years, almost identical.
As far as pension? Again at what point do you make teaching an attractive career? As opposed to a young person coming out of college with 50,000 in student loans and a salary of 30,000 before benefits are subtracted. I just think that the attacks on teachers need to stop, a profession that most have little understanding of, and one that is widely criticized by many standing on a soapbox in the public arena, for the salary and benefits I described above? The teachers that have these "offensive" salary/benefit packages, have actually worked hard for them. Have had to continue their education at their own cost, and will have to do so for the entirety of their careers in order to keep their licenses.
All I see is a governor that wants Wisconsin to be like the southern states. I see a governor that holds no value in a strong public education system, I see a governor that thinks having his "Reagan moment" was something positive for Wisconsin. I also see a governor that will soon face a recall election, and he has no one to blame but himself and his advisors for underestimating the people of Wisconsin. Remember less than 25% of the state voting population voted him in, if you and others think this is such a tremendous wate of time, we soon shall see.

Fear.....Too funny:) Your politifact link references the exact definition of "broke". Put into that "context", your statement about not being broke is true. However--considering the "view" of any rational person--when a state is SPENDING $3,600,000,000 more than it is COLLECTING during a budget cycle, they might not be "broke" but they definitely are being far from fiscally responsible........No??
Regarding the $1.6 billion--the politifact article spells out how that number was formulated. The absolute worst case(and implausible according to their economist) scenario, where savings weren't accounted for and the assumption that the districts would have all taxed to the max. Regardless of the amounts, I see no problem with expecting teachers to contribute to their pensions and HC premiums. You obviously do by calling it an "attack" on this group. I guess I would see tax increases placed on households in order to continue to fund these exceptional pension/HC plans--pensions and HC benefits that those who would be asked to pay more for could only dream of--could be looked at as an attack on those taxpayers. Simply a different perspective and a difference of opinion. Obviously we can see why I completely support Walker and you do not.......

Were not broke, never were:
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/stat...

There was never a need to cut public education funding, ever. 916, your lil politifact link is all well and good until you actually read it and it talks about "context" when it comes to how you "view" the 1.6 billion in education cuts. ALL I SEE, is an ATTACK on teacher/salary benefits. You wanna talk about misperceptions and incorrect rhetoric? Lets start with the use of the word "tools", when it comes to saving money in schools. The only "tools" I see are slashing teachers pay, I am sorry to tell you but teachers ARE education, cutting funding to pay them I dont care how you want to spin it, is cutting education funding. Whether you are cutting salaries/benefits or cutting off avenues of funding used to pay local teachers. SO sick and tired of all the BS.
Reall shouldn't tell folks to look deeper, before taking your own advice. Making statements like "its been shown that the 1.6 billion figure is overblown" I certainly didn't see that in the politifact article, it seemed to me as more of aa "context" argument , which holds NO water for me, NONE.So where else have you been reading about a figure being overblown. Macyver?

It wasn't just what Walker was doing, it was HOW he was doing it. The tearing apart of the Unions was just the start of it. So much of what he is doing is not for the benefit of the people of this State. Yes, cut backs need to be made, but not in the manner that Walker is doing.

Wally......I don't claim to know the exact motivation behind the reasons that the anti-Walker contingent was using to justify recall. You're ignorant if you claim that the talk of recall didn't begin before the investigation was a blip on the radar. When it did begin is exactly when Walker pushed his legislation dealing with limiting union influence though.........Simple cause and effect deduction......

MadCityDad.......Hate to rain on your parade, but the people spoke back in 2010. And it was alot more than 200K of them:)

200,000+ signatures after 12 days.
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The people are speaking.

916WI,
How can you claim to know the exact motivation and reasoning behind the recall effort or of the people signing the petitions? How do you know that, for many, the federal investigation isn't the last straw? How do you know that people don't feel that the feds' probe is one distraction too many for a governor that has already created so many for himself? You're welcome to disagree, but your disagreement is merely your own. It doesn't make you privy to anyone else's feelings or opinions.

MadCityDad....The "investigation by the feds" had nothing to do with the initial reason for a recall. It was set in play simply because the people opposing Walker didn't like some of his legislation. Comparing that justification to the one that set off the recalls related to the 2002 Milwaukee County pension scandal is laughable.
I don't understand your question to RAF--Many of us didn't speak out against Doyle's education cuts, because we agreed with them. The same way we agree with Walker's cuts. RAF was simply pointing out the hypocrisy which is evident in some of the anti-Walker people--Many of those blasting Walker because of his cuts to education were silent when Doyle was doing the same thing.

I saw two very attractive ladies trying to get people to sign the petition in downtown Delavan
today. Don't know how much luck they were having-didn't see anybody there before or after church.

916 - I think the investigation by the feds into scooter isn't complete. Let's wait and see before we start making judgements. Meanwhile, the state can't just sit around and wait for him to destroy what's left of WI.
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RAF, so why didn't you do anything to protest Doyle when he cut the education funding? Seems you have a lot of strong feelings for the current protestors, but didn't do anything yourself in a similar situation.

"Wisconsin state government is $3 billion in debt, spending is too high, our business climate isn’t what it should be and Badger State voters gave me a mandate to turn our great state around."

"A fiscal tornado is barreling down on us at top speed. And we simply cannot continue spending, taxing, borrowing the way we have been,"..."Wisconsin is broke! This is our moment of reckoning. By dealing with our problems head-on and solving them, we’ll win a victory for Wisconsin’s future."
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This is from a letter written by Scott Walker, but it's not from his 2010 campaign. This is from a fund raising letter sent to his supporters. It was dated September 2 of this year. He has been telling the citizens of this state that he's turned things around with his budget repair bill as well as the new budget. Obviously, he's telling two different stories, and if he knows that his tactics are not working, he owes it to the people he serves to tell us which version is the truth. If all of his previous positive rhetoric about his work as governor over the past year is in fact true, then he must really think very little of his actual supporters and donors. He must not think they're very intelligent if he can feed them contradiction after contradiction while at the same time expecting them to open up their wallets for him. Honestly, I think the truly unintelligent one involved here is Scotty himself (our special little college dropout). Being the puppet of billionaires that he is, I don't think he even realizes when he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. The people controlling him are the ones that don't believe in the voters' ability to see through the BS. They'll have Scotty tell voters that he's fixed things and we'll be seeing improvements in no time. They next thing you know Scotty's being told to turn around and tell his campaign donors that we're still in dire straits, we're broke, and we're billions in debt (that was never true). This is what happens when billionaires concerened with nothing but their own profit margins and tax breaks are running the governor of our state.
*******
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/stat...

MadCityDad........The $1.6 billion number has been shown to be grossly oveinflated several times now. Please stop buying into the baseless rhetoric--do the research and develop your own conclusions.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/stat...

As far as Walker's criticism of the recall process I think there's a little bit of a difference(actually a big bit of a difference:)) between the recalls evolving from Milwaukee county pension fund scandal that netted a felony conviction in 2002 and the recalls evolving from the anti-Walker contingent that are going on today simply because they don't agree with his legislation. If you could think objectively, you would agree with this too......

MCD, the ignored point by the left in this state, they did nothing when their guy also cut education spending. But one of the talking points for a recall on walker is the current budget reduced spending on education. Under Doyle there were layoffs, furloughs, and a rescinded raise; all that happened without drum beating parades around the capital. Under the current budget there have been little to no layoffs and I haven’t heard of any furloughs. The labor leaders have done a great job stirring the pot over one frightful image, in their eyes, loss of guaranteed revenue (dues). Nothing is keeping the union faithful from paying dues for a service they think is needed and serving their interests. It is interesting to note many of the largest unions have voluntarily not held their yearly vote for certification. If they really had their membership behind them it would have been held.

So RAF, When Doyle proposed cutting education by $290 million, it was bad but for scooter to cut by $1.6 BILLION, that's ok?
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And rethuglican Vos said that raising fees under Doyle was a tax increase, but it's ok for scooter to do?
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Kind of like when scooter called the recall process "democracy in action" when it got him elected in 2002, now it's bad.
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huh.

Yeah, okay...

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/4...

Oh you mean he cut the amount that education spending increased? You conservatives used to always complain about that , what changed? Walkers cut was far more draconian, and real cuts(1.6 billion). Lets keep addressing Jim doyle when talking about the recall of this governor, really helps your argument.(not really)

unitedwisconsin.com

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-P8mt0DPQlTI/Tr...

Ironically that same stimulus money came in after Doyle cut education funding, but the cut was hidden by the one-time money from the fed. Funny thing though, there was no mad marches on the capital after those cuts...oh never mind.

916 I respect that last post , at least taking it easier on those at the bottom of the scale. Shows me that youre human.
I would also like to point out that the 700 billion in "stimulus" that we "benefitted from was a one year thing. Doyle was governor for 12 years and kept the state in relatively decent shape. We have been and should always be in better shape than the rest of the country. My fear is that the lowering of all types of standards by these people will be the ticket to lowering living standards and wages, so our unemployment numbers can look like mississippi, and so can our living standards and education. The panic that the Walker administration displayed is responsible for this recall. While the situation was not peachy, it is better here than 85% of the rest of the country. Act 10 was ideological and more of a setup for Walker in the national republican political/lobbying scheme, never whats best for the state. He created this hype now in his "Reagan moment" he will deal with the consequences, and we will pay for his security that he "requires" because so many feel like his "reforms sre working" , What a chicken $hit!! If you are so proud of what you have done why all the extra troopers? Remember someday he will actually have to speak to someone that disagrees with him, face to face.

"Statewide efforts under way to remove Walker from office"
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by a bunch of mentally-challenged lazy people. No responsibility. I want, therefore I want.

mouse.......Teacher salaries can be found at the attached website....
http://www.postcrescent.com/article/9999...
My friend graduated with a teaching degree in 1995 and went to work in an elementary school on the west side of Beloit. According to the website, in 2010, her salary was $63,000 and change. The fringe was an additional $42,000 and change. This is for a 2nd grade teacher in a community that has an average household income in the $36,000 range. She commutes to work and doesn't live in Beloit......

History shows that many unions have been corrupt since their inception. Anybody seen Jimmy Hoffa lately?

Unions were once useful in this country many decades ago, but they have evolved into a vehicle for extortion for the benefit of only a few. Only a tiny proportion of the population benefits from extravagant union incomes and benefits, while the remaining huge proportion has been subjected to cuts due to the forces of globalization. In the area of public sector unions, the huge proportion earning lower "global" wages is forced to pay exorbitant property taxes to support the few with excessive public union incomes. Many people are losing their homes to foreclosure because they cannot afford these exorbitant property taxes. Unions are intermediaries that cost a lot of money to support financially, and when the budget shrinks, the intermediaries have to go. Like it or not, there is no more money to support unions.

Fear.....hypocrisy?? Huh?? I have railed Doyle on many things, but state unemployment figures have never been among them. Let's be up front regarding the circumstances though. Doyle's administration did benefit from $700 million in federal stimulus dollars that Walker's administration didn't have the luxury of.
I agree with your "Making 25,000 a year and now having an extra 3-4 thousand taken by a politician not really solving any financial problems, just ideological ones" statement as well. There should be a graduated scale that hit the public employees who can afford to pay more with higher percentages. We have elementary school teachers making more that $100K after benefits are calculated. They can and should pay a larger share when compared to a public employee who is only making $25K a year.........

Drove past the governors house in wauwatosa today, since my inlaws live about a mile from him, and WOW are there a lot of recall walker signs in yards!! From what my father in law tells me it is a very conservative area, so that is a very good sign!!:)

916 funny how that "lower than the national unemployment rate" is a valid argument now, but when Doyle left office with the rate being a half a percent lower than it is right now. He was a criminal! Funny where hypocrisy lives HUH?

BTW do I think that Mr Fritter's testimony would change your mind? NO, I give you credit for watching it.
While I usually am just backing the teacher bashers on here now I have to take Terry's testimony and it makes me really afraid for the future of thousands of hard working people. Making 25,000 a year and now having an extra 3-4 thousand taken by a politician not really solving any financial problems, just ideological ones.

A bit off topic, yet it explains a lot.
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Fox "News" makes you dumber: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/fox-news...

Westorbust...."Driving the state into the ground"?? A little bit of a drama queen, huh?? The same article references an unemployment rate over a full percent less than the national average and a reduction in the unemployment rate from the previous month. Yet you see the state as being "driven into the ground" by looking at one statistic from one month.....too funny:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGEVCytC4...

http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2011/11/22...
You can thank Walker and his Republican friends for driving WI into the ground while grasping for their ideological fantasies. At least the kiddies won't be taught sex education anymore, whew...thank goodness teenagers don't have sex anyway! (Nearly every state that actively promotes abstinence only education have higher rates of teen pregnancy, oh but that's science....darn it! Gosh golly, I wonder what god whispered in my ear last night....)

The video of Mr. Fritter is less than convincing. The situations involving state employees that he uses to try and make his point are definitely not typical--a woman who has had 5 heart attacks, and a gentleman who is covering his own expenses as well as the expenses of 2 other adults......really? As far as his claim that the "state decided that we shouldn't be educating our children".....really?? In 2008 Wisconsin spent close to $11,000 per elementary school student--more than any other state in the midwest--to get a math proficiency rating of 39% by the time they completed 8th grade. Eventually that education evolved to a less than stellar placement of 17th in the ACT scores. I don't understand where Mr. Fritter is coming from. Obviously throwing massive amounts of money at education did little to improve the situation, is he suggesting that having educators cover some of their HC and pension expenses translates to "Wisconsin no longer educating their children"?? The comments he made regarding the "poll tax" don't even deserve to be addressed. It doesn't make any sense at all--If his mom was "as sharp" as he claims, rather than wait until she got home to complain, why not just ask for the paperwork necessary for the free voter ID while at the DMV. It is far from a secret, and if she was going there specifically to get an ID to vote, she obviously must have known about it--especially with her son being so in tune with what is going on in the state. I'm guessing that Mr. Fritter just needed another example with which to complain about.

My my my.......I have no comment. One only needs to read what you wrote, fear, to see where the hate is.

This subject has brought out the lowest level of comments and its a shame to see how far some will stoop. Comments about molestation? Brain injuries? And people wonder why America is no longer great? Easy for me to see, if you are in Tokyo, stay there and never come back.

"You mean like this guy? Terry Fritter. I would like you to try and ridicule this guy.
Watch it, this is whats happening to regular people:"
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I have a brother that almost died from an accident, that had a brain injury, that has more common sense than Mr. Fritter. I will ridicule Mr. Fritter every day of my life. I owe him nothing. Life is what you make it. If you make it bad for yourself, it's not my fault, and I don't have to pay for it. So it goes.

I'm actually surprised that the ArtDecoCrats haven't said that Scott Walker molested them, yet. I guess that would interfere with their morning Cafe Mocha. I mean, you can only lie so much about who you are, what you want, etc, right, dems? There has to be some guilt there, I suppose. Nearly a million dead servicemen are waiting to hear your reply.

"Wouldn't it be cool if these same people having an uproar over Walker held themselves accountable in their own lives as much as they feel the need for Gov. Walker???"
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We do. They don't. They think that it's o.k. if the people of Wisconsin have to pay another how many millions of dollars just because they don't agree with the political process and how it is supposed to work??? That is because they are communists. The way it is supposed to work is that you elect an official, and if you don't like it, you WAIT until his or her term has ended, and then, and only then, a majority of THE PEOPLE vote them out or reelect them. You don't sink the state just because you are no longer happy. I swear, the recall Walker people are the most selfish people on this land. Get over it. Let the rest of us be. The people spoke and elected him. The majority, which is what the state wanted at one time. Let it be. Those of us who are sane had to put up with Clinton. Do the same. Your time will come. Don't make the rest of us suffer because of your selfishness.

You mean like this guy? Terry Fritter. I would like you to try and ridicule this guy.
Watch it, this is whats happening to regular people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=damKJ8utW...

Wouldn't it be cool if these same people having an uproar over Walker held themselves accountable in their own lives as much as they feel the need for Gov. Walker???

No vato a minimum wage saysthat EMPLOYERS cannot pay their employees less than a certain amount. Removing minimum wage and child labor laws makes us China, and those seem to be staples for the republicans right now. All the hyperbole about holding us down won't help you flip that argument. The REASON for repealing minimum wage and child labor laws are to help employers, period.
Sure playing by the rules RAF, but if you read the article it says that Republicans are putting partisans at voting booths, because they are republicans? WHY? Just leave the current poll workers there, instead now we must spend more money re-training these people? My question is why are we putting in "their" people at the polls? Dont like the phrasing at all.

Good to see the crazy Robot is back. I know that you have signed a recall petition. When you did was your address listed in Tokyo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZPnik_1I...

Beloit School District music teacher Tim Krause uses a megaphone to say "Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh."

Remove Walker people are just like the French.
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1. Get over it.
2. Elected officials should stay in office until the next election. Then vote them out if you don't like it, if you can. In the meantime, quit wasting our money just because you have a corncob stuck somewhere you don't like.

I'd like to say wasted effort, but I love beating liberals again and again at the ballot box. You go out, put your name on the mailing list and I'll show up at the voting booth to keep Walker in and get Obama out of the WH - where is mouse's ticker???

fear, so by playing by the rules means one side is scared...funny logic.

knocking him out of office that is...RECALL WALKER, wisconsin's future depends on it.

345 and the 1-2 knockout punch is comin......

Want to see how scared the repubs are?
READ:http://www.wkow.com/story/16105640/republicans-to-add-poll-workers-of-their-own-in-2012

I understand mouse's use of "sole" here. Walker, Ryan, Norquist and most of the GOP have no soul to sell. They only have the sole of their shoes and their gradma left to sell out.

Mouse, please use grammer/spell check. Once in awhile it's ok to make a mistake, but every post of yours has one. Soul vs. sole exp

Vato- so repaeling the minimum wage is good so we can pay people 2 bucks a week if theyll take it? Is that the race to the bottom you want to participate in? Will repealing the minimum wage raise the living standards in this nation or take us closer to China? YES! Not hyperbole, FACTS.
Vato are you also in favor of repealing child labor laws? Just wondering? Because once again I believe that every single person running on the right supports it. Think that wins an election? Do these folks even want to win?

See EZoner- we can agree on something, then you make a dumb blanket statement like all union leaders are greedy SOBs. Of course some of them are byut to say they all are, makes you the one with an intelligence problem. Blanket statements just show blatant hate and disregard and takes you out of the argument and shows that you have hate, and when you hate as you do when it comes to unions, you are just incapable of an honest argument.
While we agree that niether side of the partisan divide is interested in your or my interests. There certainly are certain politicians that have and continue to have the interests of their constituents at heart. I believe that we in Wisconsin had a senator that did, we voted him out in favor of a man that wants the United States to have a business model like that of China. There is Bernie Sanders in Vermont, There is Buddy Roemer running for president, there is Ron Paul. There are politicians that actually try to tell the truth, funny how they seem to be run off the table by big money.

My biggest point is here is that for some reason EZONER you love blanket statements , love name calling , and hate unions. Okay I get it, it doesn't make you correct, it just makes you preaching to the choir that agrees with your OPINION. If you believe that everyone in politics is greedy then why do you continue to support the greed machine that is currently facig recall? Every single quality that you aspouse of union leaders that you supposedly hate, is also held by Scott Walker! So why this hypocricy on your part?
But hey , enjoy your 40 hour work week, your paid holidays, safety rules that keep millions and millions of workers safe in this country, and just about every law and rule that allows you to make a living without shortening your lifespan and make a decent wage, because the UNIONS that you hate so much are responsible for all of those things, EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Well, smoothie, I can agree on the pets.com sock puppet at least. Do tell where and when in Madison you'll be going to sign all these petitions! I'd love to come "help".

Fear -- you are blind. If you feel that the union leadership is any different than the politicians you must be deaf, dumb and blind. They are all the same. If you cannot trust a politician nor a corporate leader, nor a company leader, then what makes you think you can trust a union leader. Get real.... they are all power hungry money grubbers. All of them. The union membership is the same as the general population, they just follow like sheep as do many people. The main difference between us is the same as we have is the split between private personal responsibility and a government dictatorship. Anyone that believes EIETHER party represents their interests completely is blind to facts.

Rocky, I am no sock puppet, although I do miss the old pets.com sock puppet. I'll be heading to Madison to sign more petitions today. I will be taking my kids too.

RAF said, "None of what happened decades ago is going on for public sector employees but they now have the largest union force in our nation protecting them from...the tax payer?"
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Nope, from the Scott Walkers and John Kasichs of the world.

fear, guess you only read part of the comment before rattling off on your tantrum. Although I never addressed current private company’s behavior with employees I have no problem with unions representing private sector employees at all. So again I will state; "None of what happened decades ago is going on for public sector employees but they now have the largest union force in our nation protecting them from...the tax payer?"

Private companies still abuse employees all over the country RAF, to act as if it still doesn't happen is just false and you know it. I have worked for a few companies that have gotten in trouble for these very things. So lets not live in the land of make-believe that companies treat their employees well as some kind of blanket statement, because blanket statements just dont work here.

"The only reason you have those workplace laws and restrictions on employers are directly because of Unions, and the push to recognize the abuse that workers in the past endured."
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Yes decades ago private companies did abuse employees, during the same time women couldn't vote, and many minorities had to drink from their own fountains. None of what happened decades ago is going on for public sector employees but they now have the largest union force in our nation protecting them from...the tax payer?

Someone called wislady, witchlady earlier, I thought that was funny, especially because she has a special hate in her heart(assuming she has one) for me:)
WISlady- I guess it has been proven now that your attempt at manufacuring a contraversy through a video of 2 young african-american girls signing a petition was FALSE. Not only was there nothing there about cigarettes, that was you trying to infuse the homeless votes for cigarettes story with this one, where 2 18 year old girls were video taped signing a petition, LEGALLY. Again nice try, might want to take your time before jumping conclusions. Remember defending Prosser , when he admitted to chocking his co-worker? Werent you telling many others the same thing?

I have to admit, when I saw the story I IMMEDIATELY thought of how ridiculous you should feel when you see that it was m ore deparate rhetoric, on YOUR PART!!!

Heres the link for you!!:)http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/134251858.html

Chamers of commerce are....employERs unions? LOL, thats actually a pretty reasonable comparison.
To 916- Iwouldn't say that the environment here is comparable to China, no. However the whole sale destruction of unions will definitely lead us down that road. We have a field of republican candidates that are ALL in favor of eliminating a minimum wage and MANY of them including the current leader in the polls, Gingrich, has stated publicly that he is in favor of repealing child labor law!! Is that the type of capitalism that you really want?
Ron Johnson has said repeatedly that he believes that China is a great business model that we as a nation would be wise to follow. Fortunately everything he says just goes in one ear and out the other for me. He makes Scott Walker look like a Rhodes scholar, IMO.

Username- the gazette likes posters like me because I help keep the conversation poppin, because to some I make perfect sense and to others I am crazy. I could care less either way. What I will tell you is that I make my living on the computer, so I am online a bunch. However it doesnt take long to form thoughts for me sorry for you it takes a few hours to form a short paragraph. If you think I am crazy don't read I know many don't, and once again, I could care less!:)

Why are there chambers of commerce and business associations lobbying government? Who are they fighting for? Why are they needed? Can't these businesses stand on their own Businesses have all the power - why is it necessary to run and hide behind a chamber? What laws are they trying to strike down? What favors are they trying to gain?

The comparison to China is appropriate? You're a funny guy:) So now you're saying that in the PRESENT day that working conditions and laws in this country are comparable to those which exist in China? Seriously? I'm not taking about what happened a half a century ago. That has little consequence to what is going on today. As far as I'm concerned we did need unions at one point, but no longer. The unions that still exist have become a shadow of their former selves. I do think those members of the early unions who no doubt had a positive influence on the workplace, would be embarrassed to see what their movement has evolved into.......

The only reason you have those workplace laws and restrictions on employers are directly because of Unions, and the push to recognize the abuse that workers in the past endured. Someone had to stand up and say no. Without the protection of a group of people, do you really think that an employer would own up to some kind of abuse and freely admit it did something wrong and make some kind of reparation? Of course not. The comparison to China is completely appropriate. Corporate/state run business with little to no environmental oversight, dangerous working conditions, cheap labor pool, and blindly following any lead the perceived enforcer gives you is exactly what the Teapublican and Conservative base lust for. You should get down on your knees and thank those that chipped out those laws and policies to protect you against exploitation. The union models are not perfect, nothing is.
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Maybe what needs to be addressed is consumerism and it's destructive force on all of us.

(nah - I didn't tatlle....I just wanted to see him (or her) sweat a little!)

These statements--"I feel like unions are one of the final avenues that PEOPLE have from mistreatment by employers. Ask people in China what happens when people have no rights?" are perfect examples of the disconnect between the anti-union and pro-union crowds. First of all, the Chinese analogy is laughable. There are hundreds, if not thousands of both state and federal laws set up in this country to specifically protect the employees in their workplace and guarantee them their "workplace rights".
I guess your argument would depend on your definition of "rights" and "mistreatment" though. If the "mistreatment" you allude to is based purely on the employees thought that their pay is being compromised for a stronger bottom line on the company's income statement, then I don't buy into your argument of mistreatment. The employee has all of the power-why is it necessary to run and hide behind a union?? The employee can simply take their skills and knowledge to an employer who will better appreciate them. That situation is a win-win in my book........

Justsomeguy: Just to let you know, I read fear's posts. I do not always agree with him but I respect his posts because I feel he has done his research before he posts. I believe many people are out getting signatures so they don't have as much time to be posting. So the reason as many people are not posting, is NOT what you think it is.

The Gazette should limit the amount of entries a person can make. I would think three should do it. 1. To make comment. 2. To offer a rebuttal & a final one to offer a hug. Some of you folks have WAY too much time on your hands....

Rocky: It may not be a crime, but its not nice to tattle

Unclosmoothie - probably just a sock puppet for one of the more frequent posters....but nice confession to committing multiple acts of fraud. I hope you enjoy your time in prison! Remember - the authorities can subpoena your real email address and IP address to track you down. The JPD will be notified.

Ezoner dont tell me I am missing the point, you just have a different view on the point and as usual we DISAGREE. I feel like unions are one of the final avenues that PEOPLE have from mistreatment by employers. Ask people in China what happens when people have no rights?

Oh so corporate greed is not about power? Really? Huh! I certainly believe we are in need of a reset to our system, that reset should be without labels, because the ignorant us of them are seriously getting terrible and meaningless. Like I have said before people like Ron Johnson use communist labels when convenient for him talking about China in the same breath about how great the business community is there because employers can pay people 10 bucks a week for labor. So please don't lecture me about the evil of unions greed for power and totally dismiss what corporate greed has done to this country.

And no offense but thurty wont post on this thread anymore because IT is lying and IT knows it. Monopolizing? Maybe, but I will NOT allow people to falsely represent numbers and play them as facts, I could CARE less if people get off the thread. As a matter of a fact I hope that people stop posting crap like that because it taints the argument that they could make reasonably.

Fear -- you missed the point (as always). The greed in unions is the same greed for politicians and for lobbyists. Its not just greed in financial terms.... its a greed or lust for power and its the union leadership, generally not the members. The members in most cases are not unlike the citizens in general. SOme are mindless sheep that do whatever they are told, and believe whatever they hear, some are independent thinkiers, some lsut for the same as the leadership and some really just dont care. Its a wide spectrum. So in the end -- leadership at all levels and in all cases has been corrupted.

The problem is what remains after -- we need a reset on our capatalist system. We do not want to go down the same broken path of communism where only the upper level wins, as they set the rules in all cases.

I have signed at least 15 different petitions using a different name every time. I am doing all I can to help.

I largely agree with the comments of Shrek. I hope the day will come when we forbid political parties, forbid all private money in politics and eliminate the electoral college by Constitutional amendment. Creating two major labels for politicians only serves to trivialize the complex issues and drive a wedge down the middle of the electorate. By keeping the electorate divided, corporatism and economic elitism is able to more easily exert almost total control of our politics and lives. It's absolutely illogical to think that with the dozens and dozens of complex issues before us that we could somehow create two major parties where one of them represents the positions held by each voter. Eliminate political parties, eliminate private money in politics and eliminate the electoral college.

fear, nothing personal, but I'm guessing the reason most people have stopped posting here, including the people that would back thurty, is because you're monopolizing the thread. The filibuster gets a little tedious.

You have every right to continue, and I can tell you're passionate about this. I'm just saying it's kind of a catch-22 - the more you rant, the less people are going to read your posts.

this will be my last posting as I can see there is no hope on here.

fear...you are giving me side cramps laughing at you. Here is some more lies I have come up with....we are going to get 1.5million recall signatures,oh I mean 1million signatures,oh I mean 700thousand signatures,oh wait looks like Walker will keep his position... er but we are going to get the rest of them. I wonder who the talking head is on this post? I stand behind my previous post even after you try to twist it into your own fanatical view point.

Shrek- More like eliminate the flow of money to the government. No more special interests , no more lobbying. Until that happens we are in big , big trouble.

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The only way to reduce government is to cut off the flow of money to the government.
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Shrek- for once we could not agree more. This is the reason the economy is broken, the reason why unemployment is high. I want ALL money out of government union and business alike, then maybe we can get back to taking care of our citizens. Until that happens we will all be on here fighting over meaningless issues. All that being said, Scott Walker needs to be reomved, IMO. I know we will disagree on that, but I will not back off it. I am not comfortable with trending to the laws of southern states with low education numbers and high poverty, thats the model of Scott Walker and his Reagan moments.

Hate to break it to you the geralizations that unions are all about greed is just off. I do understand that unions have flaws and many of them are that some of their behavior has become similar to that of corporate America, which would make you somewhat correct. Could you please xplain how the JEA is about greed and power?
Is being greedy wanting to maintain a middle class salary? Making 65,000 a year in salary and benefits when you have a masters degreee and 15 yrs of experience, THAT is greed? Are you forgetting about what the young teachers make? How again is it that we are in a society where teachers and the unions that protect them from political adversaries are4 the greedy ones? In the face of citizens united? Really?
Funniest thing is is that EZONER and others who rail against greed in the teachers unions, will vote for Newt Gingrich if he is the republican nominee. The same Newt Gingrich that said Chris Dodd and Barney Frank should go to jail for the mortage collapse and yet he was paid over 30,000 an hour to be a "historical consultant" and you people have the nerve to call teachers greedy? I just cannot stop laughing at the hypocricy here!! Seriously.

"Its time to clean house and start fresh, no union influence, no party influence." Add to it, no corporate influence and we may be closer to the "small government". But, no current politician really wants small government.

I agree with both of you -- newglasses and shrek. That's pretty much the point I was making and to add that the leadership of both are only interested in power (staying in leadership) because that means access to money. Power, Money and Greed. Its what union leadership is about, its what politicians are about. They are one in t he same. Its time to clean house and start fresh, no union influence, no party influence. Independence

While we will disagree on many things there are many people that are conservative that hate unions, BUT they don't trash teachers to the point that you have. You should be ashamed of yourself. While there are certainly teachers that are substandard, the OVERWHELMING majority of them are wonderful , selfless people that do what they do for the love of teaching children. The argument that they should just bend over and take whatever cuts that certain politicians hand them because of ideological disagreements is EXACTLY why they need a union. The argument that teachers are somehow greedy and selfish because they fight for their compensation which IMO is already low, is absolutely stupid. So many of you would fight for your own compensation if you had this happen as well. They have families and mortages as well, and many live paycheck to paycheck, now because our governor hates public education they should default on their mortages? Their families should do without?
The hate shown by some on these blogs is the division and ridiculousness that this governor has unecessarily caused, IMO he can not go soon enough, along with the senate majority. A very important thing almost more important thing here is to take away total power, the legislative majority, which is the most sure thing here. Even if Walker survives , which he may very well do. The days of him having a rubber stamp in the legislature are OVER.

new- well said. Ask Ron Johnson and many other tea partiers, they all seem to lothe communism and socialism here , yet they all talk about how great the business community in China is. Funny isn't it? I am wondering if these people want some kind of hybrid society or what? I guess when you are a job creator paying employees 10 dollars a week is more attractive than living in a democracy. Hypocricy is hilarious here.
Thurty you are just a liar flat out, you "numbers" were NOT based in fact at all. I happen to be related to teacherS(plural) that are conservative in thier beliefs and they understand why they need their union. I also would challenge you to post your "resources" that give you the "factual" evidence of a teacher having 2.5 hours of face time a day. Funny how in your little chuckling response you mentioned nothing of me calling you what you are, a LIAR. That being said, you talking to groups of teachers that supposedly want their union gone is funny. That CERTAINLY is not the case here in Janesville. Nor is it in surrounding communities where the unions are almost all voting to re certify, by a 90% margin, so aparantly you are talking to every single "anti-union" teacher around!!
Your hyperbole and lies don't work here. You have stated that you don't like teachers having protection and would rather that they are paid less because you hate teachers, and they are all lazy and they work 3 hours a day and 11 weeks a year. I understand how your brian works, part time. Good luck convincing anyone on here that not named kaysbrew, taxandspend, or freebird. Even the most conservative people on here won't concede any of your BS numbers, because thats what it is, BS, and LIES.

Nice point, Shrek. I stand corrected.

Actually it is:
Politicians are owned by corporations.
Politicians are owned by unions.

There is no difference in the outcome. Someone wins and someone loses.

Until both are eliminated from having an influence in governance we will have problems.

The only way to reduce government is to cut off the flow of money to the government.

I would invite all users of the words "socialist" and "communist" to define the term in context of how they are currently being employed in global politics.
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Plutocracy = communist authority + capitalist opportunism = USA under the current 'two party' system. Let's face it, folks, both parties cow-tail to big money. We look like communist china more and more every day... all we need now is $2/hr wages across the board.
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I think we should make lobbying illegal and end all private campaign contributions. Then we might see what Democracy looks like.

Politicians are owned by corporations.
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Unions are owned by laborers for the corporations.
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There is your 'difference'.
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If you want 'small government', you have to accept labor's right to organize.
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I say, "recall everyone"... Democrat and Tea Party. Let's shake it up before we resemble the Chinese hierarchy much further.

Ezoner - Couldn't have said it better myself.

Fear -- on your Nov 20th post, you had some moments of clarity. Yet others, you need to progress a little further.

I agree -- that ALL life long politicians as well as union leadership are power and money hungry grubs, sucking the life out of their constiuents. They are both elected.

Where we would disagree, is that the unions are no different than the politicians. I see no difference at all. They are not for all people, they only fight for themselevs with absolutely no consideration for the general public. They will lie and state they are, but thats the same political lie that is presented by the politician. So until either side shows real give, give on something they value fundamentally (such as collective bargaining) then I distrust one as much as the other.

Given that position -- Walker was elected to do a job and should be allowed to prove himself right or wrong. Let the chips fall where they may. Unions should back -off showing that although they disagree, they are willing to let him try. If he fails, then the dems will get their shot in the next round of elections. All this process is doing is demonizing the unions and until they see that, they will never win over public opinion.

Fear...Nov 18 1:59pm I am still laughing at that post. Here let me give it a try. I talked with a whole bunch of teachers that work very hard and are sick and tired of the union and the poiticains covering up for this teacher, and they are even more upset they can do nothing about it just the same as the regular parent can not do anything to stop it. And, by the way worms are good for the environment.

"again I took close note, and the money the Governor claims to have saved went directly into the hands of corporations"
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Took a close look? Would love to read what your "close look" was.

Or you could just read the budget or...oh never mind. Facts aren't really something that interest you.

BTW - if I was a teacher here in Janesville, I'd tell this school board that I'd willingly open my contract and contribute the funds their asking for only after they help me get rid of Walker. That's the only way they can hold onto some hope that education isn't on its way down the toilet in this state. In the meantime, you won't get anything from a group of people who have been put in such a defensive position, fearing where their profession and their own livelihood is headed.

I won't pretend to know the intricate deatails of the state budget, but what I do know is that my interest was peaked this year, so I checked the Fiscal records and found that there appeared to be a small surplus (not some severe deficit that needed to be addressed). That made me suspicious.
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Once the budget was passed, again I took close note, and the money the Governor claims to have saved went directly into the hands of corporations in the state in the form of additional tax cuts. The new budget had something like an additional $1.4 billion in spending. What do people think was saved? What deficit was addressed?
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What I don't understand is how they can close their eyes to the obvious lies that were being told about there being some budgetary issue that needed to be fixed. The unions said they'd willingly contribute the requested funds if they could just keep their collective bargaining, and still some insistent supporters don't see through the lies. That pretty much convinced me right there that people will only see what they want to see.

"BTW we aren't broke, never were, that was a fear tactic."
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Depends on your meaning of "is", umm I mean "broke". Depending on the scope +3billion could be manageable; less than a grand per person in our state. Now, if the anticipated revenue doesn't cover expected outlays, including current debt payments, is the best approach getting the finances under control or just charging the tax base more? How does borrowing more fix it? BTW, the tax base has bore the same economic downturn the state and public employees felt.

"A new vote will mean something if these changes are refuted by a majority. It will say in one voice,"
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No, just like the last election it will be a divided vote. The last election the mjority of voters declared they had enough and wanted things chenged.

LOL, the discovery and ESPN? Funny those are mine too! Fair enough RAF you are entitled to your opinion. I actually wouldn't mind some changes, but I dont think some should be subject to these draconian changes(teachers,Police,Fire,nurses). WHy? because they aren't the reasons that the economy and state budget has gone to hell.

ITs not the extra contributions that bug me its the destruction of what makes our state better than the rest, how we treat our people. How we value our public servants, how we protect each other. A new vote will mean something if these changes are refuted by a majority. It will say in one voice, NO! Do your job, negotiate, don't be such a chicken hawk. These people don't want to be told anything, they are afraid of compromise and it will cost them. Remember state unions arent the problem, never were. Oh ya, and BTW we aren't broke, never were, that was a fear tactic.
What I wonder is when the people that follow lockstep with republicans will hold these people responsible for their own failures? The governor raised taxes in the forms of fees , and some property taxes are going up because of the slashing of public ed and the lack of state funding. Unemployment is higher , and so is spending. When anyone bings that up its Obama's fault. When generac says they will add 400 jobs its all because Scott Walker hung up a bunch of signs at the border, and travels the state with cardboard checks. So when will people say that these people are just like the rest, they care not of Americans, Wisconsinites, or Janesvillians. They crave power and LIE to get it and keep it, while they have it they lie to steal for their wealthy friends, when they are gone they lie to steal it from the politicians that followed them(lobbying)

"Kind of curious if you have formed an opinion of the so-called video of the signatures for cigareetes video, you believe that is legit? I know you want to believe it is"
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Curious, first you wonder if I've formed and opinion of it then you declare I want to believe it. Are you sure what you want?

For the record I haven't watched the video nor do I care to. I personally wish walker could just make a deal with the GAB and claim whatever signatures are there now is enough and set the date for the new vote. But there are rules and procedures. I do look forward to the outcome of the vote even though it will be meaningless. If he wins the crying won't stop and if he loses it will just drive the state further into a divide than it is now. Regardless IMHO changing the rules for public unions was needed.

"You still want to tell me what I am RALF?"
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Only as long as you do.

"My screen name was created to describe what your favorite TV channel creates and what you create to attempt to sway opinion"
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I didn't know ESPN and the Discovery family of channels had that effect on you.

"I know what you and the other right wing disciples think of public ed,"
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You do? LOL. If you really did it might surprise you.

And BTW if the woman that did this was foouund I hope they prosecute her just the same as the Darlington man who has been identified. If she destroyed the petition and suppressed someone elses freedom to sign a petition, then she should be charged with a felony and prosecuted for it, period. Thing is though is that Halporin WAS recalled and won the election, so they got enough signatures and lost.

Kind of curious if you have formed an opinion of the so-called video of the signatures for cigareetes video, you believe that is legit? I know you want to believe it is, I am wondering what in that video would tell anyone that it is anything other than a bad attempt to derail the process, and footage for a Walker commercial. Funny how this person has 3 videos posted on youtube with a graphic before the video saying that they are a "news service" LOL

Go ahead RALF , vote for the 2 party monster all you like, I won't. I don't pretend anything. I refuse to vote for Obama again, no matter who is running against him, Ill write you in first. You can continue to participate in this falsehood of a democracy all you like, I will look and vote for whom I think should be there.
I would write in Buddy Roemer or ron Paul, before I vote forany of the clowns running now. Go ahead, join the circus.
Again just because YOU think anything is or isn't true has zero effect on the truth that is my life and MY decisions.

Scott Walker deserves to be recalled , not because he is a republican, but because he isn't qualified to be the governor, never was, IMO. And is nothing more than a politician who is rewarding his political donors and trying to punish non-supporters. Like Jim Doyle before him and Tommy before them, they are all crooked and the PEOPLE are tired of it. It just took this idiot and his ego to wake us up.
Do you really believe if he would have run on a 1.6 billion dollar cut to public ed he would have been elected? I know what you and the other right wing disciples think of public ed, but the GREAT majority of people support it and like medicare/medicaid these issues will sink people like Scott Walker and Paul Ryan, one way or another.

But hey RAF keep up the attempts at trying to gage my opinion and placing labels, its what you do best, is to judge others. My screen name was created to describe what your favorite TV channel creates and what you create to attempt to sway opinion, its fear and rhetoric for dummies. The days of spreading false info are hopefully coming to an end, then maybe we can have some real discussions about what the politicians in this country watsemoney on. Medicare, benefits for public employees , medicaid, AFDC, aren't even in the top 10, oh and BTW, neither is the military(closer than the others).

You still want to tell me what I am RALF?

fear stated: "Your biggest problem is that you antiquate everything with partisan politics."
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My biggest problem? Did you read the comments you wrote that I commented on?

"Looks like we have our first Walker supporter willing to commit a felony to suppress free-speech and democracy in Wisconsin! You all must be so very proud!!" Did you write this to other people on the left?

You seem to think you're non-partisan but calling the current president obummer doesn't make you a moderate. I have plenty of things I disagee with the repubs but I don't pretend I'm moderate. In fact I hope someday there will be a canidate not from the 2 party monster that has a chance of winning so I can vote for them. Until then I'm stuck voting against one of the only two electible people provided; from the 2 party machine.

fear here is plenty of links to the actions that occured during the recall process of a dem this spring.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Protester...

Just because intelligence hasn't solved all our problems does not mean we should choose ignorance. But that is a great illustration of the type of thinking we see out of the Walker administration.

Yah, Rocky, we know. That's because EVERYONE is out getting signatures.

vatoloco said, "Yes...intelligence really matters........let's ask Obama how intelligene has helped him run this country (into the ground). Tell us how intelligence has worked against the war on poverty."
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vatoloco, I never once mentioned the word intelligence in my comment. I said comments become more intellectual and factual.

Governor Walker, in this time of economic distress you have chosen to abandon the working poor and the middle class in favor of the privileged few. At the behest of corporations and sinister plutocrats you have chosen to suppress democracy. You have chosen to make it harder to vote, to make it harder to earn a decent wage, to make it harder to obtain decent health care, to make it harder for citizens to express their First Amendment rights, to make it harder to give our children a decent education and a decent future. You have made your choices abundantly clear. Now we, the working people of Wisconsin, are making our choice.

Yeah, I've noticed that, Rocky. Comments also drop way off during The O'Reilly Factor, The Glenn Beck Program and The 700 Club. With the O'Reilly/Beck/Robertson followers occupied and not commenting, the comments that are posted become strikingly more intellectual and factual.

Isn't it amazing how the pace of comments slows down on weekends?

RAF: are you insinuating there may be hypocrisy in politics?? first dale in a stupid cubs uniform...now this. bizzaro world...

RAF please post link to article, I don't support anyone who wants to supress anyone's right to democracy. No matter what stupid label you want to place on it. If it actually happened then that person should be charged with a felony too.
Your biggest problem is that you antiquate everything with partisan politics. The blatant disrespect for others rights is what I am talking about. Just because you disagree with a cause doesn't give anyone the right to act that way. I support people's rights to protest and redress grievances (bill of rights), even when it's a group I wholeheartedly disagree with(teaparty). The funny thing to me is that you seem to love the constitution when it's your issue and ignore the when others that you disagree with have a problem, the document is for all Americans not just far right wing Republicans.

Just post the link RALF and I'll gladly be as critical of the idiots up north as this embicile.

my buddy lives a few blocks from 'ol scooter and hiked to walker's neighbor's house to sign the recall petition. sounds like scotty-boy is pretty much hated in his own neighborhood. what a dandy.

fear according to dem/union politics, tearing up recall petitions is an accepted practice not a felony. Did you already forget about the episode up north during the last round of recalls when this same thing happened to recall documents against a democrat?

I don't recall your post against this action at the time, perhaps you could find it for me...

255

So far we have people throwing Rocks through business windows that display signs they disagree with, and committing felonies because he doesn't like their political position.
Honestly , these folks need to keep this up, you cannot buy PR this great!! Who needs ads, these idiots are burying themselves.
Expect no hostilities on Sunday when the race is on its the last one in the chase, bowling alleys will be full of Walker/Kleefisch supporters.

Looks like we have our first Walker supporter willing to commit a felony to suppress free-speech and democracy in Wisconsin! You all must be so very proud!!
http://www.wkow.com/story/16076394/state...
Looks like he is more educated than the idiot he thinks he is defending. Funny looks like sometimes when you have a degree you aren't very smart. Hope they throw the book at im and post his name and picture everywhere, he deserves AT LEAST that. What a neanderthal!!

Two-hundred-fifty-second!

Relax fear. Some posters just aren't worth your time and energy. Everyone knows they're full of it and no one takes them seriously or believes anything they say. Their purpose is to incite anger. The people who read/post regularly know this and those that don't won't be swayed by logical discourse. I think Thuty is related to (or possibly is) Cass/jodymac/local81/tax&spend.
.
I won't give them the dignity of a response.
.
Don't feed the Troll(s).

Fear and others....that's OK. I'm not trying to change Thuty's mind. I'm just pointing out to other readers how absolutely ridiculous his numbers are. Seriously - nobody out there should believe that the only hours that teachers "work" is when they are involved in direct instruction. Anyone who has used an attorney knows that "billable hours" can be in the hundreds when you've only met "face-to-face" for a couple hours. After talking to a couple teacher friends this evening they confirmed that a full-time teacher may, on rare occasion, have only a couple hours of scheduled direct instruction time, but they probably have other assignments like coordinating academic makeup work, or some other duty that takes a lot of time. But of course the poorly informed individual would interpret as Thuty did, or the individual with an ideological axe to grind without concern for facts. Probably just quoting some tea party radio talking head, anyway.

MH-Didn't you get what I was saying? He is the kind of teacher I would hate to see laid off.
If the unions get back in power and start taking all the money again there will nothing left for those young teachers. Tha union only cares who's been there longer and not if he's a "great teacher"

""Rocky.....Please explain your numbers, mine come from facts not dillusions. Are we working on "the year is spilt up into the same year as people in private industry" thought? Tell me what industry you can work 11 weeks and get paid for a full years work.
""

11weeks? Really and that is not dellusional? EVen seven days a week is only 77 days, so where are you getting your "facts" from? Thurty you are dellusional and quite ridiculous. Reading back to some of your posts I almost laugh that I got so angry because you are truly not a very intelligent person. Could you please link us to the research that you have done so we can experience your factual information? Because to me it certainly sounds made up. But I would read any link you could provide that would somemehow prove an 11 week year for ANY full time teacher, otherwise you need to retract your so-called facts, because I again will call you a low-life liar, that was FAILED by education, because YOU faiiled at it.

No thurty you arent grasping at straws YOU ARE LYING, through your politically charged TEETH! and should be ashamed of yourself!
You are a LIAR! PERIOD!! I would also call on the people on this site who read your crap posts , even the ones that hate unions to call you out saying that teachers dont work. Some may not like the compensation, some may hate their unions, but you are a disrespectful little worm.
As a friend and relative to DOZENS of teachers statewide, I will tell you that your posts are outright LIES. As a father of three young children who has volunteered in classrooms dozens of times, I will tell you that YOU are a LIAR! As a human being that cherishes education for MY kids and other peoples kids, teachers are the most under apreciated, underpaid, and MOST important public servants in society. It is snakes in the grass like you that make most normal people sick with false rhetoric and hyperbole.

No thurty you arent grasping at straws YOU ARE LYING, through your politically charged TEETH! and should be ashamed of yourself!
You are a LIAR! PERIOD!! I would also call on the people on this site who read your crap posts , even the ones that hate unions to call you out saying that teachers dont work. Some may not like the compensation, some may hate their unions, but you are a disrespectful little worm.
As a friend and relative to DOZENS of teachers statewide, I will tell you that your posts are outright LIES. As a father of three young children who has volunteered in classrooms dozens of times, I will tell you that YOU are a LIAR! As a human being that cherishes education for MY kids and other peoples kids, teachers are the most under apreciated, underpaid, and MOST important public servants in society. It is snakes in the grass like you that make most normal people sick with false rhetoric and hyperbole.

Rocky- you could have taken thurty to task much better than that. How anyone can make a claim that an "average teacher" spends 2.5 hours of face time with kids a day is one of the most atrocious, and insulting bits of diotribe I have ever read.

Funny thurty that you feel that your facts are the norm, what I am curious about in your little factual diotribe is the numbers, where did they come from? What district? How many years had that particular teacher been teaching? What is their education level? Of course with your litle case study you do realize that the AVERAGE teacherin JANESVILLE, WI makes a little over 65,000 with BENEFITS INCLUDED. I believe 67 thousand actually. Jim Rief one of the lead negotiators for the JEA on the last contract has more specific numbers than I do, and his handle is fbcoach66, you should do some more research than just find someone who makes 86,000 with benefits, because in Janesville that is the TOP of the scale.
So why not break down your numbers with an average teacher in THIS community? Remember average means the middle, so half are below average and half are above, thats what makes it average.
That being said , knowing as many teachers as I do personally. Being related to so many of them as well, I can tell you that your estimates are RIDICULOUS at best. Let me quote your stupidity,"I picked a teacher that is in the class room for three classes per day that is 2.5 hours of student time per day" WHich teacher did you pick? Please could you help me out , because I have never met a teacher that has but three classes a day, EVER!! Your little "factual" rant is based on hatred for public education, nothing more. 160 dollars an hour? Your numbers are misinformed at best and might be one of the DUMBEST posts I have ever read about public ed, you really should be ashamed of that post. That is the kind of garbage that has given the hard working dedicated teachers of Wisconsin a bad name, and the number one reason why I am supporting recall of this horriblly stupid governor. Because his stupidity is contagious, and rubbed off on you!!

Have you EVER volunteered in a classroom? 2.5 hours a day of student time? I actually forwarded that to a few people who work in education and they fell off their chairs laughing. Of course its people like you that think that a teacher rolls out of bed runs right into the classroom and teaches as well.
You are not very well informed, and have increased my own personal disdain for these particular politicians, not that I needed anymore, but how dumb can one post be?

Watch Walker talk about how recalls are all about taking our government back ...and it's about hope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...

vato: I really didnt listen to willie much. I've become much more of a fan of his son Lukas Nelson. Maybe you saw my blog where I twitterviewed him?? Anyways, after his show in sheboygan the future mrs and I got the chance to hang out on Lukas' bus, Willies old tour bus, Honeysuckle Rose III. Wow. And yes of course we did;) but we also took him some of wisconsins finest...smoked cheddar cheese and a bag of curds!!

Those who can't work....teach
Those who can't teach....teach gym

misunderstood
Then why are teachers wearing the BLUE FIST buttons in the classrooms?

That's a no-brainer, wislady. School grounds are not the place to campaign. I heard they'll be walking across the street to sign the petitions at 3:50. Muahhh..hahahaha

RECALL WALKER!

Thuty30 - Many teachers have "overload" schedules in a 7 period day, or teach in a school with an 8 period day (6 classes). Not at all unusual. Coaches do get paid, but this individual is a newer teacher and coach, so the salaries for both are pretty low. This person is also single - meaning benefit costs are low. Rest assured it is a real example because I have a relationship with this person.

---

I'm not doubting your example, but I am pointing out that there are extremes on either end. My example is not "typical" because of inexperience and great dedication. Your person teaching on 3 hours of class per day probably has additional responsibilities as well that you are neglecting to count. Counting only "student contact" time and including benefits in an hourly wage calculation are both ways to really skew the numbers as well.

----

The vast majority of teachers work very hard for their pay, and the taxpayer gets more bang for their buck in a school than just about anywhere else. Anyone who thinks that teaching is just spending a couple hours talking to kids and is an easy job has probably never tried to run a classroom.

“In this time of economic distress you have chosen to abandon the working poor and the middle class in favor of the privileged few. At the behest of corporations and sinister plutocrats you have chosen to suppress democracy. You have chosen to make it harder to vote, to make it harder to earn a decent wage, to make it harderto obtain decent health care, to make it harder for citizens to express their First Amendment rights, to make it harder to give our children a decent education and a decent future. You have made your choices abundantly clear. Now we, the working people of Wisconsin, are making our choice.”

Thank you, Ft. Atkinson Schools.

No recall petitions on school property: Fort

http://www.dailyunion.com/main.asp?Secti...

good accent huh?? I'm the one headed to SNL...

sry vato, you couldnt pick up on my accent but that was my rick perry;)

RAF: you will be one of my advisors;) I've got a slew of thoughts, but I'll share my first 3 promises...

First I promise to not sell out to the unions or the 1%. I may make decisions that favor one or the other at certain times but they will both give and take. I'll base all my decisions on whats I truly feel is good for 'the people'

Second, I promise to return the rights back to the states as much as I can, including health care, and more specifically, a DR's right to prescribe a medicine.

Third, I promise to....ughhh.....ughhhh...I seem to have forgotten the third thing....oops:)

Rocky...I did a bit more searching on your facts and thought I would just throw it out there. I could not find one teacher that has class room time more that 5 classes per day. Let me know where this school is so I can see whats up. And, do coaches not get paid anymore?

Rocky.....Please explain your numbers, mine come from facts not dillusions. Are we working on "the year is spilt up into the same year as people in private industry" thought? Tell me what industry you can work 11 weeks and get paid for a full years work.

Because we can all cherry-pick our examples....

---

OK....here is something to think about. I picked a teacher that is in the class room for six classes per day that is 5.75 hours of student time per day. They also spend about 4 hours per day grading and preparing for their classes. They also coach after school about 3 hours per day..making it 8.75 hours of direct student contact per day. This (young, single) teacher makes just over 48,000 per year with their benefits included in that number. Now the golden number is 190 work days per required, but they work every Sunday just to keep caught up, so that bring them to 226 work days, plus the occasional Saturday tournament. , so lets do some numbers on how tough it is on the public servant to survive in this trying economy.....$207 per day worked /12.75 =$16.24 per hour not too shabby so far...now if you take 12.75 times 226 days worked assuming a 52 weeks in a year that works out to an average of 55 hours per week. . Don't jump on me just yet. These are factual numbers and hours worked, that is just one teacher, now tell me that does not happen in other classes also. I would love this,thank you teachers for opening my eyes to the true numbers.

----

Absolutely true, factual example. Remember that outrageous salary of $16.24 per hour INCLUDES BENEFITS. The actual hourly pay rate would be $12.49/hour. Still want to go spend $100,000 at a University to go make that great wage?

Geez, all it takes is Governor Worst Bald Spot Ever to say something about people coming in from out of state for this and you all just become parrots. There are way, way, way more than enough people in THIS state who will sign the petition to trigger this recall election. I know MANY, MANY people who will be signing the petition. None of them have done so yet. The Gov's days are numbered, but you all should still have plenty to complain about when he's booted. So you got that going for you...which is nice.

OK....here is something to think about. I picked a teacher that is in the class room for three classes per day that is 2.5 hours of student time per day. This teacher makes just over 86,000 per year with his benefits included in that number. Now the golden number is 180 work days per year, so lets do some numbers on how tough it is on the public servant to survive in this trying economy.....$477.00 per day worked /3=$159.00 per hour not too shabby so far...now if you take 2.5X180 days worked assuming a 40 hour work week that works out to just over 11 weeks work. Don't jump on me just yet. These are factual numbers and hours worked, that is just one teacher, now tell me that does not happen in other classes also. I would love this,thank you teachers for opening my eyes to the true numbers. I am going back to school to be a teacher so I can get some of those terrible benefits, and maybe I will even be able to get a few months off every summer. I would give a couple grand a year to my class room every year also, and be glad to do it.

"Laura Stone of Janesville, who works for Rock County Health and Family Services, said she is paying for her pension now and is paying more for health insurance because of the Republican legislation." Poor baby ! Now The taxpayers don't have to pay for all of it. How greedy can she be?

For those that want to see the real numbers behind the hype follow the link below. From Sep last year to Sep this year Wisconsin unemployment numbers are a teeny bit better. Hardly a large improvement, but is also far from the disaster being peddled on the left.

http://www.bls.gov/xg_shells/ro5xg02.htm...

Thank you Governor, thank you for job losses totalling 9700 last month alone. At least your "major jobs announcement" at Generac "created" 400 jobs to keep it under 10,000! Thanks Governor Walker for starting a narrative that has essentially demonized our school teachers to the many disciples that follow your failures as if they were successes, they certainly buy your crap.

Look up SSWIDTMS, and you will understand.

Steve Strieker is a great teacher. He's not one of those teachers who are afraid to state their opinion because they're already afraid to be laid off without union. I hope the Janesville Schools won't lose any more good teachers next year.

Steve Strieker, the Parker high teacher in the picture looks just like the kind of teacher I would expect who would lose their jobs if Walkers reforms are turned back. Young with maybe ten or less years of seniority, still enthusiastic and not yet beat down by the union or the administration. Still trying hard to do a good job.
I don't know him and can only go on what I see in the picture but I'm worried these are the kind of teachers who will have to go if there's no money-pretty sad.

Kid I don't know, can you do the union position dance as well as kohl does? He does the I support union in dance in madtown with his supporters but changes hats to keep his players from getting the deal they want with their union.

If you can pull that off, without your peeps paying attention to it, you have my vote.

vato: Ill be that fresh face. Would you vote for me if I ran as part of Willie Nelsons Teapot Party??

I'd look good in Herbs old seat;)

westorbust?

Did Scott Walker the governor get rid of 9700 state employees? If so, well done! Maybe the Obama recession did end 29 months ago-as the POTUS has told us!

Not one thing will change as long as those in office are so blind in voting along party lines

9700 jobs lost last month. Thank you Gov. Walker for moving forwa....oh wait. Never mind.

tthompson- I agree on both accounts. Especially with unemployment rising each and every month.

funny that the only arguments some have is to be disrespectful and make up stories. IMO goes to show the intellect of many Walker supporters.
Just support a LETTER no maytter how bad your state is hurt, no matter how much damage is being done, just continue to strive for the letter. Keep talking aboutwasted money on the democratic process, dead people voting, out of state people and money. Wonder what your excuses will be if Walker loses? If he wins, at least he wont have a rubber stamp anymore as the senate will surely be flipped. The targeted seats this time are far more vulnerable than last year.
Spend more , tax more, less jobs, higher unemployment. WOw must be hard to be a Republicant supporting a career politician whose results in his first year in office seem to be the very things that most of you loathe. When will you hold him accountable? You certainly had no problems holding Obummer accountable the day he was sworn in. Amazing the double standards, shows me how strong you people's values aren't.
The supporters of Walker have yet to hold an event drawing more than 20 people , maybe thats why you don't see it. Or maybe there just isn't that much support, must be the liberal media again, LOL. Always someone else with you people, could it be that you have a chain smoking skeleton leading the charge?(McKenna,Pchynski) that assaults police and cannot pay her own bills!! Great leader to have!! YUK!!

I'm not the biggest of union fans, but I prefer them spending money to defend the worker than the scrooge mcducks spending dough to protect their cash pools.

Such a great feeling signing that form today. Goodbye Scooter. I guess you better pack your brown bag to work for the Koch Brothers.

I have my moments

3 more bus loads arrived from the clocktower in Rockford.

Another rally will be held Saturday at the clocktower in Rockford.

Kim Mork is one confused union employee. She wants a libertarian for governor, yet, libertarians do not support public unions, private unions, yes. And she probably should remove one of her bumper stickers as Ron Paul supports Gov. Walker's collective bargaining reforms. http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/rep_bio...

Good luck with that emac.

It seems odd that this story is still front page news, we get it Frank and Gazette you support the Walker recall. How about reporting on the efforts to keep our Governor in office.

Rocky Nov 16, 2011 at 7:46 p.m. I beg to differ on your comment that we are wasting our keyboards by posting. While it is true that most of the people that post here are pretty much locked into their position there are others that read these threads.
I know of several people that read these comments daily and never post or even have a screen name. It is for those folks that I attempt to get the conservative point represented.

916- interesting facts at the bottom of the politifact article that should show you the direction of the state under these people and where they want us to go.

Consider just one statistic -- the percentage of residents living below the poverty line. Wisconsin ranked 38th in the nation, similar to Virginia (39th), and well below Texas (8th), South Carolina (9th), Georgia (13th) and North Carolina (15th). The fact that many fewer Wisconsin residents, proportionally, were impoverished almost certainly had an impact in shaping the states’ comparative test results.

Why do you think so many of the states in the south have such high poverty trates compared to Wisconsin? Especially since they have so many jobs available there? Hmmmmmm. Is that rhetoric 916? Or is there a little something to that? Remember those numbers are from when the evil Jim Doyle was gov, poverty rates are higher in Wisconsin since Walker took over.
If you want the education of southern states and the living standards of southern states, all so your taxes can be low, thats exactly where were headed.

RIP 144 jobs in Sun Prairie, tougt the sign said were open for business? Guess not!(That was rhetoric unless you work at Famous Footwear):)

Westorbust Quote"...everyone knows that conservative only get their "news" and/or "opinion" from full vetted ultra-conservative news sources" End Quote
Who's everyone???
How could one possibly know as much as westorbust and not think like him/her?
The problem is that many liberals can not understand how someone can read various news sources, observe the political climate, do some thinking, and then come up with an opinion that differs from theirs.
In their mind it's just not possible.

Thanks Poorrichard, I dont care if they kick me off. Its as easy as creating new email accounts and re cereating your name, as taxandspend/cass/jodymac/local81.
That being said I appreciate the heads up/ Normally I dont do that I just get so sick of people shooting the messenger and NOT reading the facts, it just gets old. All I copy and pasted were statistics. If anyone who debates me knows I almost ALWAYS post links instead. The problem is that the same parrots on here just don't follow them and read the facts.

916- I agree the 4% number isn't telling because the great majority of kids take the ACT. The fact of the matter is no matter how hard you look Wisconsin public education is CONSISTENTLY above the rest of the nation, has been for decades. I would have been better with Walker if he had just negotiated with the unions to get the concessions FIINANCIALLY that he wanted, instead he tries to bully, THEN he cuts HUGE amounts from their budgets, which essentially means HUGE cuts for educators salaries/benefits. I have a HUGE problem with that. Devaluing public education is a political football for these people. Honestly this is rooted in unions vs non-unions, and I am not, have never really been a union goon as some would say. BUT I do believe with all my heart that certain professions DESERVE higher respect, HIGHER pay, and PROTECTION from ideologues. Teachers, Firefighters, prison guards, Police officers would all be included in that for me.
I am for recalling him FAR MORE for his ASSAULT on public education, NOT act 10. Although they seem to be linked, the HUGE CUTS to public education for me is the reason I signed the petition. Some things should be off limits, not open checkbook, but this is ideological, period. If a politician came after 10-20% of your compensation based on politics, not economics you would fight too. If you say you wouldnt, you would be lying IMO.

Did any body read or hear this week that Obama told Canada he is not welling yet to make the call on the oil pip work from the States yet. That is 9000 jobs will be lost over this and will be see higher price at the pumps because China is right there waiting in line for the rights to it. Those jobs would be paying $50,000-100,000 plus and they are union jobs but the o great one gets a pass, also how much did he give to the companys that went under he also gets a pass, Holder with weapons the hole group gets a pass, this is the group you should be teaching your kids to recall and bad people. But no we are Gov who has a back bone is not scared to cut and you guys are all running from him. My school taxes went down this because they finally learn how to cut money. But that was after they put in New gym floors in every school. Even schools that are about 11 or 12 years old now that a waste of money. You guys need to go to school and find out what they are spending the money on. May be if the teachers would shut the lights off after she leaves the room or shuts the tv off may be then she could get a raise, this all stuff should go into raises. They don't care if they waste money if they don't live in the district.

mouse: You're the one that's stuck in a roundabout, YOU are the one that keeps bringing it up, showing us all AGAIN just how simple minded you really are! Do use all a favor and TRY to come up with something new. I know that it's asking a lot of someone like you, but give it a try. Just don't kill off what few living brain cells that you do have.

If the teachers really cared about their teaching job and the education of our children, they would be at work instead of skipping work.

Sarah B....You spelled "winners" wrong

Fear--A 4% participation rate invalidates SAT scores from being used as an indicator of the effectiveness of our educational system. I found the 2010 ACT scores posted on their website--tied for 17th is an averade number. The WEAC number is much more appealing. I tried to find those numbers elsewhere and only came upon one other article mentioning 2011 ACT testing. The article listed the top 6 states in the 2011 ACT cumulative test score and Wisconsin wasn't among the states listed.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answ...
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...

just another "sick" day for the teachers to call in, and take their children out of school to do so.

The only reason I would want to see Walker recalled, is so he could be a candidate for the 2012 Presidential Election

fear-A word of advice-I was removed from the Gazette without even knowing it for some copy and paste I did. And it was hard to get reinstated.

...everyone knows that conservative only get their "news" and/or "opinion" from full vetted ultra-conservative news sources. How could they possible be expected to tow the line if they entertain some other view point? That's Satan's work, right there.

Here's what Tim Krause,the Beloit school teacher should be saying-
Why should I have to pay any of my pension and health insurance? That's somebody else's responsibility. What do I care if teachers who don't have my seniority lose their jobs because the district is out of money. And don't you dare take away my collective bargaining rights so I can't have a 7-1/2 hour day, can't accumulate mass amounts of sick days, vacation days, personal days and sabbatical days. I'm out here acting like a fool because I'm greedy and the only thing I really care about is me.
I say to Tim- "Thanks for being honest"

"There was no counter demonstration." That's because most of the rest of us, in the private sector, can't just not show up for work and expect a job to be there when we get back. I'd like to know how many people are hanging out day in and day out at these types of demontrations or the Occupy ones and still find a wi-fi hotspot to put in their Unemployment Comp claim for the week. When my husband and I have been out of work, we wouldn't have had time for that kind of foolishness.

I post links all the time Johnny the problem is that facts escape you if its from a certain website. Look at my posts, I post links ALL THE TIME.
I don't feel intelligent, I just choose to research issues before blowing my mouth off about them. Or shooting the messenger. I have had SEVERAL debates with 916 and used conservative links THAT I READ from the likes of the maciver institute to make factual arguments.
Johnny, I am guessing that you wouldn't even follow a link if it says its from the AFL-CIO would you? I know RAF does, but ost of you won't. Are you thanking RAF for "Calling me out?" I certainly am not scared to admit I copy and paste now more than before, dispute the facts of labor in America? Can you? Or will you dodge based on the source of the article?

Thats what I thought.

Wisconsin ranks 3rd in the nation in SAT scores, but with a participation rate of just 4%. On the ACT, with a much more representative partcipation rate of 69%, it was tied for 17th
Heres the liberal socialist link:
http://studentactivism.net/2011/02/20/sa...

Another source WEAC has Wisconsin ranking 3rd nationally in ACT scores. Of course since its WEAC it must be false statistics:

http://www.weac.org/News_and_Publication...

Only 5 states do not have collective bargaining for educators and have deemed it illegal. Those states and their ranking on ACT/SAT scores are as follows:

South Carolina – 50th
North Carolina – 49th
Georgia – 48th
Texas – 47th
Virginia – 44th

If you are wondering, Wisconsin, with its collective bargaining for teachers, is ranked 2nd in the country.

Another socialist website with statistics:
http://woody.typepad.com/my_weblog/2011/...

Waste of time and money! Get a life and go back to work!

BTW you know I post links all the time and what do I get? Ahhh thats a liberal link!! And folks dont follow, its hooey. The very same people that post links constantly from the maciver institute and act as if its an independant source. I would rather the reading be right here for those that dispute that free-trade has hurt the economy and is the main source of our pain here. It certainly isn't taxes!

RAF: That would be too easy and fear wouldn't feel so smart if he just posted a link. BTW big surprise that "article" he posted was from the afl-cio.

Sure its from AFL-cio website, facts are facts RAF, can you dispute them? Or do you just hate the messenger?
I copy and paste facts because I know that most of the haters wont follow the links, or just dismiss them based on where they came from.
Again RAF dispute the facts not the source. Numbers like those are very difficult to refute, although I am looking forward to seeing you try.

kim......When was Wisconsin's educational system ranked 3rd in the nation?? As far as your rant about educational methods, can you please link objective articles regarding Walker pushing this agenda on the school districts.

fear you could have just provided the link to the afl-cio website, people could have read it all there.

http://www.aflcio.org/issues/jobseconomy...

You must have said you were David Koch! TS you are such a liar, cut it out! BTW Is Walker ever at his office or is he just travelling around the state with large cardboard checks? You must have his cell number, could you please post it? I have to talk with him too.

It's bad. According to the report, between 2001 and 2008, 2.4 million jobs were lost or displaced with losses occurring in every Congressional district. (Note - This report does not track service industry job losses, and does not track indirect job losses.)

Here's the surprise: since 2001 we have lost more tech jobs than manufacturing jobs! -- We lost 628,000 tech jobs -26 percent of all jobs displaced by trade- between 2001 and 2008.

The main unfair advantages China uses to its advantage are:
1) Currency manipulation. China "pegs" its currency at a very low, or "weak" rate, so goods from China cost up to 40% less than they otherwise should.
2) Labor-rights suppression has lowered manufacturing wages of Chinese workers by 47% to 86%.
3) There is massive direct government subsidization of export production in many key industries.
4) China allows environmental degradation that ends up affecting all of us.
5) Intellectual property theft and piracy mean that American products that could be sold are stolen instead.
6) China has a number of policies that block U.S. firms from market access.

Everyone knows that we have lost a lot of jobs to China since 2001. Now you can find out exactly how many, and where.

The Alliance for American Manufacturing and Economic Policy Institute released a report today titled, “Unfair China Trade Costs Local Jobs” by EPI's Robert Scott. Along with the report AAM has set up a website with an interactive map that shows job losses to by state and Congressional District.

The Hill reported that “the conservative-Democrat Blue Dog Coalition officially endorsed the House Republican balanced-budget amendment to the Constitution.”

It appears conservative democrats—who opposed the Ryan budget—are willing to join with Boehner and his tea party allies in supporting the much worse-Balanced Budget Amendment. Maybe that’s because the “balanced budget amendment” has a good name on paper. And it doesn’t have the votes to pass. So for some of these lawmakers, it’s a nice symbolic vote to take. They can go back home and tell their constituents they support a “balanced budget.” Sounds good, right?

What these lawmakers aren’t telling their constituents is that working families would bear the burden of massive, massive cuts. Mammoth cuts—versus raising revenue to balance the budget—would be forced in part because of extremist opposition to raising taxes on the right, and in part because of Grover Norquist’s “taxpayer protection pledge,” which the vast majority of Republicans have signed. This pledge prohibits raising taxes to balance the budget, under any circumstances. As Norquist, a rapid anti-government activist famously said, “I don’t want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.” This amendment, tied to his pledge, is a way of making his goal a reality.

Clearly, there’s a moral crisis in Washington. The fact that lawmakers of both parties are considering an amendment to immediately balance the federal budget when our economy is so weak—which would tie the government’s hands in the future and all but guarantee a second Great Depression in the event of a financial crisis—is deplorable.

What could possibly be worse? The fact that they’re prepared to do it knowing that working families—the 99 percent who have borne the burden of bailouts and an awful jobs market—would now suffer the consequences of the savage cuts that the so-called “balanced budget Amendment” would force. While as usual, the 1 percent are let off the hook.

Want a job? Want Medicare when you retire? How about good public schools? Then look out: Speaker of the House John Boehner (R-Ohio) is joining with his tea party allies to hold a vote today that would guarantee deep, radical cuts—and make those cuts part of the U.S. Constitution, the supreme law of the land.

The so-called Balanced Budget Amendment is even worse than the budget proposed by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.). As Robert Greenstein of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP) put it, the Ryan plan would have produced:

the largest redistribution of income from the bottom to the top in modern U.S. history, while increasing poverty and inequality more than any measure in recent times and possibly in the nation’s history.

If you thought the Ryan budget was bad, the “Balanced Budget Amendment” to the U.S. Constitution is far worse. It would double the nation’s unemployment rate and cause the economy to shrink by 17 percent, according to the Center for American Progress. In addition, as Bloomberg points out, it would force lawmakers to”:

slash Medicare, eliminate federal programs or shrink education, law enforcement or national defense.

Anyone else want to talk about reality versus fanatsy again? Raw materials?
If you are a supporter of the politicians that have sold us out to corporate free-trade deals than you are ANTI-American IMO. If you wonder why we have high unemployment in this country, look back about 30 years up until the current admimistration, and you will see that we no longer care about the people in this country working, we care about certain "Realities" stressed by zombies that would just assume allow corporations to outsource labor to screw blue collar America.

Nice try Ezoner on trying to say its somehow about "raw materials" its not that is a fact that I have PROVEN, its about labor and tax evasion. Which each administration has capitulated in since Reagan all the way through Obummer. His recent championing of the free-trade deals with Columbia, Korea, and Panama , the very deals he himself campaigned against will drive me to vote libertarian, or write in my favorite candidate, a Republican, Buddy Roemer. A real man that sees the corruption that so many of you blind partisan ideologues turn an eye to.

Blind ideology and corruption is what got us into this plutocratic oligarchy, what will get us out?

Walker is going to ruin the education system in this state. We were 3rd in the nation. He is going to a test-based system and learning solely by reading - the most inefficient learning tool there is. (Observation and hands on being the best methods)They are taking critical thinking out of the curriculum to produce dumbed down service workers for McDonald's. For that alone he needs to be recalled.

The Economic Policy Institute reports wages in the industries in which jobs are being created are, on average, 21 percent lower than wages in those industries in which jobs are disappearing. In addition, expanding industries are less likely to provide workers with health insurance than industries cutting jobs. EPI also found jobs losses are hitting higher-paid software occupations even harder than other software jobs.
Increased employer mobility also hurts workers by decreasing their bargaining power. As it becomes easier for companies to move work overseas, employers use the threat of sending work overseas to squelch union organizing drives and win concessions at the bargaining table.
Trade-related job loss does not just hurt individual workers and their families. Entire communities are affected negatively as tax revenues fall, dependency on public assistance increases, and incomes stagnate. And as the off-shoring and job loss spreads to sectors with higher technology and skills that drive innovation and productivity, it puts the long-term competitiveness of the American economy at risk.

Economic theory predicts increased trade will lower wages for lesser-skilled occupations, and thus increase income inequality. Though economists’ estimates vary, increased trade is likely responsible for about 20 percent of the recent increase in income inequality in the U.S. This translates into a decrease in real wages for the majority of American workers—roughly a 6 percent loss for the two-thirds of workers who lack a college degree.
Recent wage trends confirm what economic theory would predict. Real wages have stagnated since 1973, even though productivity has grown rapidly. For the majority of the American workforce, real wages have stagnated since 1973 and have actually fallen in the last year. Since real wages are adjusted for inflation, they take into account any benefits workers enjoy from lower costs resulting from increased imports.

Forrester Research Inc. predicts U.S. employers will move 3.4 million white-collar jobs and $136 billion in wages overseas by 2015. The outplacement firm Challenger, Gray and Christmas estimates the number of service-sector jobs moving overseas each year will hit 588,000 by 2005. A University of California at Berkeley report finds 14 million jobs are at risk of being sent offshore, and predicts job losses will exceed the Forrester study’s projections.
Gartner Inc., a high-tech forecasting firm, estimates 10 percent of computer services and software jobs will be moved overseas by the end of this year, while a study by Meta group projects 40 percent of corporate tech operations will move offshore by 2008.
A survey by Deloitte Research found the world’s 100 largest financial services firms expect to shift $356 billion worth of operations and about two million jobs to low-wage countries over the next five years. Another Deloitte survey of 42 global telecom operators projects 275,000 jobs in the sector will be sent off-shore by 2008.

From November 2002 to January 2004, the U.S. Department of Labor certified 246,398 workers who lost their jobs due to trade for Trade Adjustment Assistance (TAA). This is in addition to the estimated 1,112,775 workers who were certified for TAA between 1994 and the end of 2002. These figures are very under-inclusive: they only count workers who know about the TAA program, apply for it, and qualify under the program’s strict eligibility requirements. The numbers do not include most service sector workers or workers who have lost their jobs due to shifts in production to China—neither group is eligible for TAA. Nor do they include workers erroneously denied TAA certification by the Labor Department.
The Economic Policy Institute estimates that between 1993 and 2000, our lopsided trade policies, reflected in the explosive increase in the U.S. trade deficit, cost Americans a net 3 million jobs and job opportunities. The growth in the NAFTA trade deficit alone is associated with nearly 900,000 lost jobs and job opportunities through 2002.

One service sector hard hit by job losses is information technology, especially software. The pro-outsourcing consulting firm Global Insight estimates we lost 104,000 information technology jobs to offshore outsourcing between 2000 and 2003, more than a quarter of the 372,000 jobs lost in the sector overall during the period. The Economic Policy Institute found employment in U.S. software-producing industries fell by 128,000 jobs from 2000 to early 2004, while about 100,000 new jobs producing software for export to the U.S. were created in India over the same period of time.
States are outsourcing public sector jobs as well, though most state governments do not know exactly how many. At least forty states contract out administration of electronic benefit cards for the food stamps program offshore. In one audit, the state of Washington found 36 out of 41 agencies were contracting out work overseas. A recent study by INPUT Research projects outsourcing of state and local government technology contracts will grow from $10 billion last year to $23 billion in 2008.

More than 3 million manufacturing jobs have disappeared since 1998, and the Economic Policy Institute estimates 59 percent—or 1.78 million—of these jobs have been lost due to the explosion in the U.S. manufacturing trade deficit over the period.
Goldman Sachs estimates 400,000–600,000 professional services and information sector jobs moved overseas in the past few years, accounting for about half of the total net job loss in the sector over the period. A Deloitte Research survey found one-third of all major financial institutions are already sending work offshore, with 75 percent reporting they would do so within the next 24 months. A U.C. Berkeley study found 25,000 to 30,000 new outsourcing-related jobs advertised in India by U.S. firms in just one month in 2003

Ezoner before you and others try to call someone stupid maybe you should consuder some factors that are called the REALITY of globalism:
Since 2001, the nation has lost more than 2.5 million manufacturing jobs and more than 850,000 professional service and information sector jobs. No one knows for sure how many of these jobs have been lost due to increased import competition and shifts in production abroad, since no comprehensive official data are collected. Various independent estimates indicate the number of white-collar jobs lost to shipping work overseas over the past few years is in the hundreds of thousands and millions are at risk in the next five to ten years. But the number of jobs lost need not be overwhelming in order to concern policymakers: increased overseas outsourcing also undermines wages and working conditions in those jobs left behind and threatens the long-term health of the economy.

This is just anecdotal, but all of the conservative "teacher haters" that I know have HORRIBLY behaved kids. Maybe you should look to the beam in your own eye...Jesus was a teacher, Jesus was a healer. Are you trying to follow his path? Are we a Christian nation? Or a nation of hypocrites who fear a "welfare" state and can't stand to see someone helped who doesn't deserve it? Do any of us deserve God's help? Where is your God and your Bible when WIC and before/after school programs are being cut? Where is your God and your Bible when the Koch brothers and more like them let their money rot in banks while hard working families can barely scrape by? What was it Jesus said we should sell? And what are we supposed to do for the poor?

'Why do I see the Recall Walker bumper stickers mostly on Non America made autos???'

Industry wide about 80% of those 'non american' vehicles are built right here in the u.s. The true ironic part about that is that most of those 'non american' american cars are non union. ha.

Rocky, I was assuming the "fringe" was pay for extra duties, such as coaching or advising extracurricular activities. You say 2+ hours per day is low. Maybe at the high school level, but grade school and junior high? I feel it's accurate.

Your points are well-taken. My intent was not to suggest that teachers are getting wealthy. I just hear teachers say that the trade-off to getting great benefits is a lower wage than private sector workers. My feeling is that they are out of touch with what private sector workers actually make.

@justsomeguy- I noticed that you researched teacher's wages and benefits. Why don't you research a road workers salary and benefit package and the amount of time they collect unemployment compensation in the months of layoff? You may be surprised at how close they are. And, I believe most road construction jobs come out of state funds as well.

@staff what was said the truth in my comment that hurt the person that cuts the comments. Look at all the ones that are smashing Walker but that is ok. What I wrote was the truth it was in the Milwaukee news paper its seems it was all black people only had. The Dem are none it that area for giving free lunches or free rides also its a fact if you would ask some of them they don't kn ow what they sing. Do your job as News Paper Person. Also its a fact Gwen Moore who is a Democrat in 2004 sons went around and slashed all the GOP vans tires. Its a fact I think the only ones that should be doing this is people who its going to effect there taxes. If you go a Do a little home work this is all true. or do you want to do the easy way out cut my comment. If so I will just cut your News Paper from cut on Sundays. Facts are Facts Walker 100%

Someguy - While I would probably go with 2000+ hours a year instead of 1800 (the 2 hours per day extra is pretty low...7-4 would be a pretty short day for most teachers) , for the sake of discussion I will stick with it for now. The problem I do have is that you are assigning an "hourly rate" that includes fringe. You wont find a comparison in the private sector, so it skews the numbers. If we use your numbers for salary alone (which is what most statements of hourly rate in the private sector do) you get $28.51/hour...which is not a horrible salary, but also not nearly as spectacular as the hard-to-compare $43 figure. A lot of professionals in the working world make salary in excess of $30/hour plus their fringe - which may not include a pension plan but often includes an "employer match" on their 401k. (BTW - $30/hour translates to $60k/year for a 2000 hour year....) So on the whole, I'd say that teachers with that level of experience are hardly getting wealthy on their salary. They probably even lag behind their private-sector counterparts (Engineers, nurses, therapists, MBA's, etc...).

Let this sink in...this is the problem in our country:
The government goes to the federal reserve (private banking cartel) because it needs a billion dollars. The federal reserve (private banking cartel) lends the money to the government and charges the taxpayers the interest on the loan. Does anyone see the problem here? The federal reserve does not create the money to pay the interest, only creates the money it lends. There is never enough money to pay the interest, hence the debt continues to rise. This is the flaw in the system but it is DONE BY DESIGN. THIS is why the people are always fighting and squabbling amongst themselves over money. THIS is how TPTB encourage class warfare.

Mouse, I couldn't make any sense out of what you said. What does student employment have to do with teacher's salaries? Why so angry? Did I say something that wasn't factual?

I love teachers - lots of them in my family. I think they're worth every penny they make. I just don't think the trade-off argument carries any weight when you do the math.

Koch_bros - you of all people should understand the difference between public and private employment. Why JS Online provides the public teacher salary database: "Government worker salaries are public records because of the long-held belief that taxpayers have a right to know how their money is being spent. For that reason, we've made these records available online."

Beloit teacher Tim Krause says it's "class warfare" and he's angry ! Timothy Krause Salary $53,358 + Fringe Benefits: $22,461 Hackett Elementary Beloit Sch Dist source: http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/ - It's class warfare because he has to now pay a smaller share of health insurance than the rest of Americans, and finally pay something towards his pension plan ? Pension Plan - something virtually no American has anymore outside of the public sector ?

I love the charge of class warfare by the left, what hypocrisy...while at the same time Obama (The Great Divider) bashes the wealthy nearly daily. Hmmmm, maybe he's on to something. I make about half the compensation of the average teacher...maybe I should come down there and ask for some wealth redistribution and see how they like it.

Teachers' argument for better benefits has always been that it's a tradeoff for lower salaries than private sector jobs. Let's do the math...

Stephen Strieker Teacher Salary: $51,334 Fringe Benefits: $26,941 Parker High Janesville Sch Dist Source: http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/... Total Income - $78,275

The school year consists of 180 days but for the benefit of the doubt lets call it 200 with in-service and the like. The school day is roughly 8:00-3:00, but let's give an extra 2 hours per day for prep time and extracurricular, so 9 hour days. That's 1800 hours of work per year. Divide his income by that and we get... $43.48 per hour!

With all due respect to teachers, that's a pretty decent wage. Maybe the tradeoff isn't as significant as you think.

"She calls herself a conservative who nevertheless thinks Walker is bad for the state."
I call my self a liberal but I support Walker, voted Republican in the last several elections, and saw the light of conservatism when the democrats passed Obama Care. /s

Fearandrhetoricfromadummy: Quote"This acceptance of globalism is absolutely awful!! We need to be protectionist and bring manufacturing back." EndQuote
Translation; This acceptance of reality is absolutely awful. We need to hide under the covers and hope they don't see us.
Protectionism has not worked in the past (see the 1930's). Globalism is not only a reality but we are in some areas of the economy not the largest market for goods and services.

Once again the teacher bashers are out in full force to persecute our hard-working public servants!

And people why unions are hated. Just look at the NBA. GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!

good bye scotty

Fear -- I had seen your comment below reagrding forced manufacturing in the US regardless of cost or forced taxation. The issue is many products used today no longer have raw materials or never had raw materials available in the US. This is part of the reason we have a global economy, to move closer to some of the resources we need in the manufacturing process, some of which the shipping costs alone would make manufacture cost prohibitive in the the US once transprotation costs are considered. Making general statements as you do makes you look really stupid sometimes. WHile we could manufacture some items, the cost effective model requires global manufacturing capability and a global economy.

Stephen Strieker Teacher Salary: $51,334 Fringe Benefits: $26,941 Parker High Janesville Sch Dist Source: http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/dataond... - Many people in Rock County would be happy to have that fringe benefit total as their annual salary.

I voted for Walker the first time and I will vote for him if the recall election takes place! Keep up the good work Walker! Just because we are not screaming through megaphones doesn't mean you don't have any supporters out there!

Fear--More fail with this comment, "Governor Walker ADMITTING that his reforms had NOTHING to do with FINANCE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy9Hihtcr......
Dont talk about status quo and other repeating rhetoric directly from the mouth of your hero, okay?
"How much money does it save governor?"
WAlker" It doesn't save any."
Walker was asked ABOUT TWO SPECIFIC PROVISIONS in ACT 10--collection of dues and annual voting. In no way did he admit that ACT 10 in it's entirety had "NOTHING to do with FINANCE". One would have to be a complete idiot not to think that limiting the amount of union influence and power over school boards and the districts they represent would save the districts money.
I realize that the anti-Walker crowd is desperate to reinterpret situations and take quotes completely out of context to offer support to their "side", but the gross exaggerations and outright lies having to do with things that Walker has claimed to have said or done, is really making these people look pathetic.....

fearandrhetoric4dummies

Norbert College poll......482 people, and plus or minus of 5%

The same polling that had Feingold ahead of Johnson......how did that turn out?

"Public Sector Freeloaders"...yeah...right, You probably wouldn't last 1 hour doing what a teacher, or police officer, or paramedic does. The corporate welfare offered in this state makes the private sector the one making money off the taxpayers.

Fear--Regarding Walker's spending increases--You continue to jump on the anti-Walker bandwagon spewing the rhetoric about a "BILLION in new spending". Don't you think that it's important to mention that there was a $1.2 BILLION INCREASE ALLOCATED TOWARD MEDICAID?? So, Walker could have easily kept spending neutral by pulling that increase out of Medicaid, but thousands of disadvantaged Wisconsinites would have had their HC compromised if he would have done that. Yet you continue to rail him on this. Which plan would you support then? Pulling the HC from these people or keeping spending neutral?

Kimmmmmm: You are so right! If anyone else does not see it, then they are blind and like being slaves.

fear.....the larger American companies could not expand without the emerging markets that globalization open up to them. Your Nike example is a perfect example of this. While the US is probably still Nike's largest market, the revenue increase per year in this country is around 2%. Compare that to the double digit revenue growth rates in European countries and then add China to the mix having revenue increases closer to 50%. Your comment, "The economic crisis we are in is a demand crisis created by the decimation of the AMERICAN middle class" fails to identify the middle class as the group that brought on their own "decimation". No trade deals need to be torn up, no additional tariffs or taxes need to be applied--all that is required is the middle class Americans walking out of Wal-Mart and strongly supporting the American manufacturers and companies that produce our products here.

If you don't like something stop grandstanding about it. Simply vote against the guy at the end of the term. Oh, but now we don't have to, we can just change the situation whenever. This is a sad episode for Wisconsin. Wait and see if the numbers help our debt. Stop pushing jargon like, "Education is our future, and that's being taken away!"--WHAT? Your employee contributions are basically all that is at stake here, and no more union rights creating the unreasonable.

Kimmmm is an individual, rare on the Gazette blogs, everyone welcome her!!! She will help flip everyone on their heads!! Looking forward to disagreeing with her! Not here though.

Is our state so brain dead that we need two brothers from Chicago to run the Assembly and Senate and their daddy to run the State Patrol? Buckle up, we are in a race to the bottom. Everyone can work at Wal-Mart or for a temp agency. These crooks on Koch need to be recalled.

kimmmmm, you're a brilliant critical thinker! Will you marry me?

taxandspend, also send a link from the IAM Local 10 of Harley showing their official endorsement for Scott Walker.

In communism the owners of the corporations sit in government, and in fascism the owners of the government sit in corporations. The end result is the same for the people.

All in the political game are deceivers, those who think they will change things are blind at the least, deceived and deceivers. Political rhetoric keeps the slaves playing the game, choose a side like you would do at a sporting event and you, the voter, lose.
I do not consent to man ruling over man, this is the tool used by the elite in the deception of the masses which has been in play since the beginning of mankind.

Sovereign people rule, slaves follow.

taxandspend writes -- "40,000 wealth building private sector Jobs have been added in Wisconsin through help from the Governors Office." ------------Prove it. Show the data and list the state government initiatives, the legislation and the negotiations that directly led to 40,000 jobs in the private sector. Thanks in advance...

Cass- That is an absolute LIE, please provide a legitimate source. Unemployment in Wisconsin is up a half of a percent in a year.
Didn't you used to claim to be a teacher too? Under your SEVERAL screen names you have made a lot of erroneous claims, and lied. So maybe you should stop making things up and post a link?

ki(lots of ms) - Way to flip it on them, looking forward to many on these blogs ducking that one, or making some great excuses why their hero is doing this.

So how many of you will still be for Walker when you realize that he was the only Republican governor to keep the federal money to implement Obamacare and he ushered it into effect today.

A little fuel for the fire. Is the GOP really "fiscally responsible"?

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/new...

YKM- STOP letting facts get in the way of the rhetorical race to recall! Didn't you hear the reforms are working? Working to raise unemployment maybe.

Bunch of hopeful garble doc, short on facts though, too bad!!

I am wondering if you can back up any of your rhetoric with any fact?

Balanced budget? Really? over a BILLION in new spending? WHat is balanced? Unemployment is HIGHER!!! Accountability? What status quo are you talking about?

Just admit you hate unions, Walker should have. Instead all we see is a bunch of repetetive crap. Nothing of any substance. The Kaukauna story is a cute one on its surface until you find out that the Teachers union offered all of the financial concessions, yet they were rebuffed because they wanted to bust the union, period.

This has NEVER been about finance, that is the biggest LIE EVER!! Its about cowards not admitting their true intent. If Walker had announce ACT 10 during the campaign , he LOSES. That will be shown in the recall. How many police firefighters that voted for him, that had their CB rights stripped will be flipping , hows about prison guards? if you don't think he has lost support then you just aren't paying attention.

Governor Walker ADMITTING that his reforms had NOTHING to do with FINANCE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy9Hihtcr...

Dont talk about status quo and other repeating rhetoric directly from the mouth of your hero, okay?

"How much money does it save governor?"

WAlker" It doesn't save any."

The statements here were brought to you by~ "Friends of Paul Ryan for President in 2016" ??!! ---------------------- Is that the Paul Ryan who voted for $6 trillion in deficit spending during the Bush era and thought the tax cuts should be deeper to lessen surpluses projected by the CBO in 2000 - and now thinks the tax cuts should be deeper to lessen projected deficits by the CBO in 2010? That Ryan? Is that the same Ryan who wants to end Social Security and Medicare? Is that the same Ryan who would rather promote his hyper-partisan "Young Guns" book instead of attending a local meeting comprised of business, education and labor leaders to create a proposal for economic recovery? Is that the same Ryan who said "The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand." Ayn Rand the person who proclaimed that she is out to destroy almost every edifice in the contemporary American way of life, our Judeo-Christian religion, our modified government regulated capitalism and our rule by the majority will? That Rand? That Ryan?

Doc- Obummer? You are going there? Its the presidents fault when Walker is in office but its Doyle when Bush is in Office?
No!! I refuse to "accept" that its a global economy, because it doesnt have to be. We CAN elect politicians that will tear up these free-trade deals that have destroyed our economy. Those that say we should just accept it are anti-American and have NO clue IMO. The only way to fix what ails us is to FORCE( thats right I said it) FORCE these companies to make things here or shoulder a LARGE TAX burden for making their crap in Taiwan, its called tariffs!! If Nike and others want to make thier shoes in Taiwan, China, Mexico and scerew Americans out of middle class jobs, then they have to PAY to bring it back, PERIOD!!
Accepting these deals that RUINED our middle class and just saying that this is the way it is, to me is the epidemy of whats wrong with this nation. Just letting corporate interests elect our politicians, make the policies that favor them and help keep unemployment high, what do you think the Occupy movement is based in?

Its high time for Americans to care about AMericans WORKING. This acceptance of globalism is absolutely awful!! We need to be protectionist and bring manufacturing back. Try to realize that most if not all of the companies that have outsourced their manufacturing were profitable, they just wanted more for their execs.

Income desparity in America is at its highest rate in HISTORY!! WHy is that? Because of this acceptance of globalism, I suspect. We on't have to "accept" anything. Tearing up the free-trade deals would change everything, tomorrow!! See if NIKE or anyone else could survive without American consumers, doubt it!! The economic crisis we are in is a demand crisis created by the decimation of the AMERICAN middle class, and it has reverberated worldwide. As we go the world goes. The job creators are as wealthy as ever and the economy is still failing, hmmm wonder why?

Sheldon said signers must be 18, not convicted felons and need to have lived in Wisconsin for 28 days.
So the rules of the recall are that Illinois and other state unions have to have had people take a Wisconsin address for 28 days? Will all of those same people who sign the recall actually be able to legally vote here then? It will be very interesting to see how many signatures are gathered here, if the number of votes cast in this recall farce against Walker even comes close to that, I'm betting that it's not even close, by at the very least fifty to seventy five thousand less votes when all is said and done. Would anyone have a problem with that?

And once again I beg of you, please please don't let money come between you and going all the way with this recall stance you've taken, use all the money that you have unions, that way when you lose again (And you will) I don't want you whining that you should've done more and wish you could have a third try at it, spend like your hero Obama does, spend every last dime on this recall election, that way when November 2012 comes, only then will you know what it's like for the rest of us who are out of money and want to do more, Obama will be the candidate who ends up suffering the most from this because when that day next November comes and he loses, he will be stuck knowing that his party didn't have the money it would've taken him to get re-elected for another four years of Socialist Idealist run Presidency! Is it too soon to start Governor Walkers Re-election 2014 campaign fund?

The statements here were brought to you by~ "Friends of Paul Ryan for President in 2016"
Now that would be something great, now wouldn't it?

Some of you here are actually delusional enough to think that this is going to be a switch in power, Governor Walker is our Governor, the one voted in last November and he will be after your re-call farce is over, get use to it and start realizing that what is happening now has been long overdue, you can only kick the can so far before you run out of road to kick it down, Doyle illegally raided the tobacco money, and many other monies that weren't to be touched for his personal use, now the state of Wisconsin is paying the price for what happened in the eight years leading up to today's problems. The good news is there is a brightness on the horizon and we can get through these tough economic times we are still mired down in, only with the help of leaders like Governor Walker though, the status quo here at home has been to worry about today and tomorrow will fix itself, can no longer work for us, as we can see by today's living standards we have been lying to ourselves in that way of thinking, tomorrow is here and it's not taking care of itself, and we need to be fiscally responsible, I know I know, there I go again throwing those two words out there that most Liberals hate, "Fiscally Responsible" the day has come when politicians have to think about the consequences of ones spending of it's limited tax dollars, there is no longer an endless amount of money for them to play around with, Government across the country is now trying to budget within its means, republican Governments are changing the way their states unions are run, it's not just here in Wisconsin as the left will lead you to believe, it was just covered much more in the media because of all the resistance it was met with. Now states across the country are balancing the budgets by forcing public union workers to live like the rest of Americans, and if the Unions want to claim it's on the backs of their working people, then fine, I can live with them saying that, because their benefits and pensions were being paid for out of non-union working peoples pockets for many many years, and they had no problem with that! Why didn't we protest and complain all the while that was going on?

“Education is our future, and that’s being taken away,” said Heather Jelinek-Hopp of Janesville.

“I feel we’re losing a lot of good teachers,” agreed Dan Hopp, Heather’s husband and a union construction worker who said taking away the public-sector unions’ bargaining rights was wrong.

“And the economy is going in the wrong direction,” Heather added.
As an educator Heather, you should realize that this is a global economy and not just the state of Wisconsin's economy, Governor Walker doesn't control the USA or the World as the left is claiming he is trying to do, he is one man, working for one state, our state, Wisconsin, and with his help jobs have increased, not to the 250,000 he is aiming for yet, I believe he was counting on America to do the right thing next November and vote out Obama. That day is coming and until that happens, there is only so far we can go forward as a state, right to work has to happen before companies will even begin to consider Wisconsin as home for their businesses, a company friendly business climate to open and do business and hire on unemployed Wisconsin residents. Companies like GM, Lear, LSI and many others that have left the area did so during former Governor Doyles days in office, and you blamed Bush for that one. Why then is it now the Governor's fault that those jobs haven't been created again? If it was the presidents fault up until 2008, then why isn't it the presidents fault today? Is it always just the fault of which ever candidate isn't the one you voted for?

If you listen to the whole 10 minute call I think the prank caller said maybe 20 words!! WOW!!

""Tim Cullen is reasonable, but he is not one of us."" words right from Walker's mouth!! One of us? Outrageous!!

Who is ruling this state? Scott Walker? Or.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBnSv3a6N...

Still wondering why he was so willing to discuss everything with someone who he has never met personally? Unbelievable!! Looks like he knows who butters his bread!!

I have poll for you too Wislady-

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/13391...

You and many others dismissed the PPP poll in August when it showed you guy down big. Now because its close its your holy bible?
The St Norbert College poll shows 58% support recall, thats a HUGE number!! I think that if Barrett runs he beats the pants off him, anyone else loses.
I also find it funny that polls mean nothing, UNTIL it makes Scott look like he has a chance to survive. I also find it very funny that sooooomany conservatives on this very blog call it a colossal waste of money to do this, rally? If it is indeed as close as the PPP poll says it is then how is it a waste? If Scott Walker was leading in the polls by 10 points and had an approval rating above water than I could see it. The fact is that the grass roots organization is far better on the left wing side here. I believe that the party that has better organization here wins. TV commercials will be running constantly, but they wont change anyones mind, this will be all about motivation. I see a far more passionate grass roots organization on the left, but we shall see.

The party with more passion wins this race, IMO, not the party with more money. Depending on what you listen to you could believe that either side has more of both. The bad part is that if this race is run on merit Walker LOSES big. Unfortunately the zombies that sleepwalk behind him will never hold him or any of them accountable.

I've been watching these blogs and laughing to myself over the Right Wing sentiment and talking points that mirror what Herman Cain, Rick Perry, and Michelle Bachman have been shouting. Very funny indeed. Walker is as in
" over his head" as they are. Thinking people- just dismiss their banter and let them blah on.

jksea - don't worry. recalls will remain as they always have been, for occasions of extreme corruption and/or disregard for public opinion, as is currently the case. You can't just ram through legislation for self-serving or corporate interests and expect the people to stand by idly.

wislady, keep looking for those few polls that will show you what you want to see. :)

Hyperfist, it's quite apparent that you don't know the true ins and outs of the profession. You've reinterated all of the rhetoric of your fearful leader, but it's hogwash. Go talk to a teacher to find out how things really work. The benefits you speak of are part of a deferred compensation package teachers were forced to settle for when salary increases were stagnant. Now, apparently, you've been convinced it's an unfair situation, but you have no clue how it ended up that way or the progression in that direction. Surely you don't think teachers are overpaid. If the picture was as bright as you paint it for teachers, we'd have a huge abundance of out of work educators just waiting for the next opening, which as you know, is not the case.

Roadmaster

Scott Walker improves in prospective recall races

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2...

i think the whole recall thing is dumb...unfortunately this is going to set a precedent...recalls will now be used anytime there's a piece of legislation the left disagrees with, despite the fact it's been shown to have been working...think of the alternative...the state would still be in deficit and we'd all be paying insanely more taxes...

Gov. Scott Walker has lost support among his Republican base, according to a poll released Tuesday that shows a majority of respondents want to recall him from office. The Wisconsin Public Radio/St. Norbert College Survey was released the same day that Democrats, labor unions and others, angry over his moves to curb union rights, began circulating petitions to get the 540,000 signatures needed to force a recall election next year. The poll showed that 58 percent of respondents believe Walker should be recalled from office. That compares with 47 percent who said in April that he should be recalled. The growth in support for a recall came, surprisingly, from Republicans. In the spring, only 7 percent of Republicans supported recalling Walker but that grew to 24 percent in the fall. Support among Democrats held mainly steady at 88 percent in the spring and 92 percent in the fall. Pollster

They still have Schultz covering the recall ? Isn't he married to a public school teacher ? From the Journalists Code of Ethics...Journalists should: —Avoid conflicts of interest, real or perceived.

Where is it written that these teachers have the right to healthcare, and a pension without contributing one red cent towards it. Here in the real work force we have to pay towards both.There are 269 Wisconsin school districts that have lowered there property taxes. I support Walker on the issue of giving public employees the choice of wanting to be i a union or not. No one should be forced to have to pay there hard earned money to a union to keep a job. You dont pay your dues you dont work its not right.Everyone has a right to work, but not the right to have there very working exsistance paid for on the backs of the tax payers. The public employees crying for free health care, and a free pension dont realize that the even though they have to help pay for that now is still better than most in the private sector. I am also seeing articles about school districts that dont want this overturned. Now that they have a surplus of cash and are adding jobs due to being better off why would they go back to being robbed blind by the unions for health insurance.

"Nobody here is changing anybody's mind."
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We already knew that. That's why zombies are so damn popular these days. Still a minority. Kind of arrogant, as well.

916WI said, "So we have this gentleman "angry" and screaming about "class warfare" while at the same time collecting more than twice as much as the average households from the community that he works in. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this picture?"
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I see something wrong with your analysis, 916WI. And that is you've only considered the teacher's salary and benefits and haven't talked at all about the impact of Walker's reductions on his students. The teacher specifically included his students in his message and you specifically excluded his students in your message. And regarding the teacher's salary and benefits, if I were to suggest a person with advanced degrees and years of experience should make as much as "the average", you'd all be calling me a communist.

The comments made by the Beloit Elementary school teacher were classic. " Walker was balancing the budget on the backs of teachers and his students."
“It’s class warfare, and I’m angry,”
A little bit of research has this gentleman collecting $51,897 in salary and an additional $21,939 in fringe benefits. Total compensation in 2010 for teaching elementary kids music is $73,836.
Now let's consider the average HOUSEHOLD income of Beloit residents in 2010--around $36,000.
So we have this gentleman "angry" and screaming about "class warfare" while at the same time collecting more than twice as much as the average households from the community that he works in. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this picture?

I, for one, signed a petition today. It felt great! Save your keyboards, the rest of you. Nobody here is changing anybody's mind.

Pam?????

Hey. Where's babe?

Moobah, I sincerely apologize for that outburst. I forgot that you are are a sheep, and I didn't want to really compare you to a cow. My bad. I wasn't thinking Poohbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Forgive me?

Moobah, you should have been a sheep. How's it feel to be on wrong side of the food chain? Some of us love veal, too. But I'll take a great steak any day.

The disconnected United States of America!

I think this time he wins by even a bigger margin...going to lmao when this happens...oh and by the way GM is going to reopen too...right after the guy sends me my 3 million from the internet lottery

I love this. I haven't even said a word and Tokyo_Rose_Of_Robots is already throwing her little hissy fit. All I can say is, make sure that shade-grown coffee is fair trade. Solidarity, sister!

Yes, Nevada. I look forward to voting for him again and seeing red. And bunbun, you are so right. I've called myself a Libertarian in the past, but in the past few weeks, I've realized that I am a constitutionalist. Something that socialists want to destroy for their own benefit, and something that was created FOR their benefit to protect them. I guess you just have to destroy things that don't let you do perverted things, and essentially control others without their consent. Hitler knew that, didn't he? If you don't think that what you do is in line with the NSDAP, you need to study. It's exactly what happened. EXACTLY. And if you don't think that it can happen again, even in today's world, you are a fool. It happens every day in this world. Vidi Hugo Chavez, for example. Same. Can it happen here? You'll try. It will fail here.

You people need a reality check...even if you get the signatures...BIG IF...no way your going to get him voted out...will NEVER happen

Suck it up, Robot! Your boy is on the block!

6 weeks 5 days 17 hours.....bye bye scooter!

The bongos have to go, too.... I'm surprised you hippies taught your children how to play them. Then again, you can teach a monkey how to do lots of things.

"Walker has had the state in an uproar since day one."
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Only because you petulant little minority socialist whiners didn't win and get your way this time.
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"Tuesday's election marks the first time in 72 years that the control of state government shifted entirely from one party to the other. With Republicans running the Legislature, Walker gains a major advantage in trying to advance his agenda."
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Yep. That he did. If you don't like it, Socialists, move to Berkely where you belong. The rest of Wisconsin (outside of the People's Republic of Madison) are sick of your bagel and shade-grown coffee shops.

Wouldn't it be great to see WI collect more signatures to oust Scooter than he got in the first place? I can only dream.

Your extremist and unfair agenda has even turned Republicans against you. Goodbye Scooty.

sheeple:
The Office of the Commissioner of Insurance (OCI) for Wisconsin has forwarded an emergency order to Gov. Walker that would begin Wisconsin’s compliance with ObamaCare. WE MUST STOP IT.

Please call Gov. Walker TODAY at 608-266-1212 and let him know Wisconsin wants absolutely nothing to do with ObamaCare. If you don’t believe me, take a look at the Emergency Rule for yourself and count how many times it refers to the “Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act” (ObamaCare) and “45 CFR 147.136”.

carlito,

who are the 99%? Dont you mean the 46.4% Isnt it refreshing that the liberals when they lose elections resort to these kind of shaninigans? And if the recall effort doesnt work? Whats next- will you resort to defecating and urinating in the capital or will you hide your head in Illinois like democrat legislators?

Good thing that if he is recalled the voter ID law will be enforced-requiring those "daffy ducks" and "Michael Mouses" to show State identification....

It appears the OCCUPY movement has hit afterall but with a new name "Recall Walker".

TCB that would be a republican act to falsify votes and they have and will. How dare a person want to sign this JERK out of office You have your input and the 99% have theirs. Recall is Justified and he will be gone

In short folks, what the left determines to be "Greedy Corporations"..(which are all corporations except for corporations they like - such as GE, Apple and such)" are bad but individual greed is ok (as long as you check with your union rep first).

Axtually signers half to be 18, 28 days residency and complete prison sentence and Not on probation or parole. http://www.channel3000.com/politics/1737...

"Laura Stone of Janesville, who works for Rock County Health and Family Services, said she is paying for her pension now and is paying more for health insurance because of the Republican legislation.

After 38 years as a state worker, “It’s a big disappointment,” Stone said."
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Can't find a better reason than this to keep Walker in office. (BTW Laura, not too many of us out here in the world GET a pension and we ALL have been paying more for health care)

How many sheeple are joining this just because its something to do?.....because nothing else ever happens around here. Im sure a lot dont even know whats going on but are protesting for the fun of it.

"Kim Mork of Beloit is a county worker and union member who has bumper stickers that support Ron Paul for president and for recalling Walker. She calls herself a conservative who nevertheless thinks Walker is bad for the state."
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Ah, they found a Paulbot. (dosen't she know if RP had his way, she wouldn't have a gov't job at all?- just about the only thing that RP is on the right track about)

mouse: If ignorance was money you would be a billionaire!

In tough economic times like this it is revolting to see such a colossal waste of money, time and energy. Wouldn't it be refreshing to see all these resources spent on something productive for a change. One can always wish.

wislady----do not be shocked if there are several thousand illegal, dead, UW student signatures that amount to 540K. We finally will learn how many Daffy Ducks, Fred Flintsones, Barney Rubbles actually live in wisconsin.

Walker has had the state in an uproar since day one. Talk about buyer's remorse! This is what happens when voters have a brain f---. They need to get it right the next time.

540,000 people...... who are ELIGIBLE to vote in Wisconsin.

Just curious what everyone here thinks about Walker being the only Republic governor to hold onto the federal money for the implementation of the exchanges for Obamacare? And that he is poised to sign to get it started right before the Supreme Court rules on whether obamacare is unconstitutional thereby negating Wisconsin's place in the 26 states that brought the case to court in the first place????

I see you’re still missing a few, but go ahead stroke each other’s egos anyway. I am sure the others are on their way!

They assembled there at 4:30 p.m.
I believe school is out at that time

"Can someone tell me, can anyone sign this petition or do you have to be a registered voter?"
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Nahhhhhhhh. Just have to be from out of state.

JANESVILLE — They came by the dozens Tuesday to sign petitions that could lead to the historic ouster of a Wisconsin governor.

Wow, it's a long way to 540,000 2 dozen at a time.

Can someone tell me, can anyone sign this petition or do you have to be a registered voter?

If they do manage to get enough signatures for a recall that doesn't mean they will have enough registered voters to win a recall election.

Sounds to me like Frank Schulz has already decided the recall vote will happen. Pretty biased article my friend.

"Don’t ever forget; if you repeat something enough times it has to be true!"
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Like the democrat mantra. We will never quit until we win?"
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You lost, get over it. Where have I heard that before?? Oh, that's right. It was when Bush lost, and all the socialists were gloating. How's it feel now, mooks?

"Beloit School District music teacher Tim Krause uses a megaphone to explain why he wants to recall Walker at the kickoff at the Rock County Job Center Parking lot. " Walker is balancing the budget on the backs of educators and my students and it's class warfare and I'm angry," he noted"
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Angry? Why, because you are probably not even half the teacher my Grandma was when she taught in a one-room schoolhouse? Don't be mad at yourself. You still have time to learn how to be a good teacher. Maybe you can take some classes???

Hey guys; the gang is almost all here! A couple of more tea bags and you guys can have your party! What are you drinking today, tea or Kool-Aid? Don’t ever forget; if you repeat something enough times it has to be true!

just curious as to why these teachers weren't at their jobs?

Where's the kaboom? There was suppose to be an earth shattering kaboom?

Liberals at work - wasting other people's money.

Imagine that, teachers missing work and keeping their kids out of school. Fine example they are setting there!