College tuition costs are just part of the challenge for illegal immigrants
JANESVILLE — A small number of students at UW-Rock County and across the state are struggling because their tuition more than doubled this year.
A change in state law means they have to pay out-of-state tuition, even though they grew up here. They are illegal immigrants.
UW-Rock student Maria—who agreed to an interview on the condition that her real name would not be used—entered the United States on a tourist visa with her mother when she was 12. They never returned.
Others crossed the border before they could walk and grew up here.
"It's all they know, whether it be Madison or Janesville or whatever. They pretty much are American," said Javier Neira, president of the Madison-based organization Alcance, which encourages Latinos to go to college.
'Keep studying'
A 1982 Supreme Court decision requires that children of illegal immigrants be educated in public schools. Like their peers, they are encouraged to follow their dreams.
"They tell you when you're little that you can be whatever you want to be if you keep studying," Maria said.
With the loss of in-state tuition, "they seem lost. They don't see a future," Neira said.
Neira is afraid youths will turn to gangs or other trouble.
Maria graduated from high school in Janesville, where she got good grades and teachers loved her. She is in her second year at UW-Rock County.
She was one of 20 UW-Rock students who learned this August that their tuition would double because they are illegal immigrants. Five dropped out; others went part-time.
UW-Whitewater also notified 20 students they would have to pay more. Eleven remain enrolled, nine of those full-time.
Lawmakers step in
The students in question had paid in-state tuition last year, under legislation passed when Democrats controlled the lawmaking process in Madison.
Republicans took over in the 2010 elections and changed the law in the 2011-13 budget bill passed last summer.
UW-Rock tuition is $4,502 a year for state residents, $11,486 for out-of-state.
"I was obviously freaking out" when she learned of the change, Maria said.
She talked to her mother, who works two jobs to support her. Her mother said she would have to drop out for a year to earn money for school.
But Maria and two others were lucky. They're getting help from a UW Colleges tuition-remission program that gives financial aid to current students who demonstrate need and merit.
Maria has to keep reapplying for the program. She still doesn't know if she'll receive the aid next semester.
Waiting and hoping
Even if they manage to graduate from college—or even if they don't—these young adults face a future of uncertainty. Finding employers who don't ask for documentation of their legal status will be difficult.
What remains for them is to wait and hope. Maria and her friends watched C-SPAN last December when the House of Representatives voted on the DREAM Act.
The DREAM Act has been introduced in Congress for 10 years. It lays out a path to permanent legal residency for illegal immigrants of good moral character who arrived in this country as minors and graduated from U.S. high schools.
They would get temporary residency for six years if they completed two years in the military or two years at a four-year college. They would become permanent residents if they later graduated from college or obtained an honorable discharge from the military.
Rep. Ryan's take
Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Janesville, voted with the majority against the DREAM Act last year. A Ryan spokesman said what's needed is comprehensive immigration reform "before pursuing piecemeal proposals like the DREAM Act."
Asked if Ryan would support the DREAM Act if those reforms were addressed, the spokesman said he could not address a hypothetical question.
"It is clear that our immigration system is not working," Ryan said in a statement. "People who are attempting to come to the country legally find that it takes years to process citizenship applications and requires endless paperwork and other requirements. In order to discourage illegal immigration, I believe it is important that we work toward improving our immigration system so needed workers and eligible people are processed in a timely manner. At the same time, I do not support amnesty for the 11-13 million illegal immigrants already living in the United States."
Maria and thousands like her still pin their hopes on the DREAM Act.
Return on investment
"I want to let people know that we're not here to take their jobs," Maria said.
She notes that communities across the country are investing their tax dollars to get people like her through high school, but they won't see the benefits if those people leave the country because of a lack of opportunity.
Maria said she wants to get a degree so she can contribute to the community where she grew up. She doesn't think she should be penalized because of something her mother did.
"It's like mom is speeding and you give the ticket to the kid sitting in the back seat," she said.
Maria considered going to college in Mexico, but being accepted is problematic because her level of Spanish isn't up to academic standards, and getting through the bureaucracy and into a college there can be a matter of who you know rather than what you know, she said.
While she battles discouragement, Maria also appears at local high schools to encourage other Latinos to go to college. She works with Alcance.
Alcance's Neira said a degree from an American university could get these students a job anywhere in the world, but it would be better if they stayed in the United States.
"Why not keep investing in these children? Why not keep investing so that money isn't lost?" Neira said.
Asked whether Americans should be expected to invest in illegal immigrants during tough economic times, Neira said Americans are already spending lots of money to bring students here from other countries. He suggests the money would be better spent on students who are already here.
Hard work
Historically, immigration has paid off for the United States, with immigrants becoming the backbone of the country, Neira said.
"Let these people pay their taxes and even pay a fee if they need to make them legal. That's not a problem," Neira said.
Maria hopes to eventually transfer to UW-Madison, where "I know it's really hard to get accepted and even harder to pay." She wanted to become a nurse, but licensing requirements include a residency check. So she's taking biology courses while hoping things change.
Maria said she has a "gut feeling" that she should remain in the U.S.
"Things happen for a reason, is something my mom tells me," she said. "Maybe my purpose is to be here and grow old and be one of the people that helps this country."
Maria and a friend were up until 4 a.m. recently, studying for a math test. At one point they stopped and looked at each other, asking whether it was worth it.
"We're just groping in the dark and hoping we'll get somewhere," she said.
THE DEBATE
An estimated 65,000 illegal immigrants graduate from high schools in the United States each year, and about 5 percent of them attend college, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Twelve states—including Illinois, California and Texas—allow in-state tuition for at least some of these students. The NCSL lays out these arguments in the debate about tuition for illegal immigrants:
Pro
-- Many of these students came to the United States with their parents as young children and should not be deprived of higher education because of their parents' choices.
-- Many have U.S. high school diplomas. It is inconsistent to provide them with an education that ends at high school graduation, which limits their future social and economic mobility.
-- In-state tuition gives these students an incentive for completing high school, attending college, and eventually contributing to a state's society and economy.
-- Without access to postsecondary education, a growing uneducated workforce results in significant costs to states.
-- Failing to help students attend college results in higher costs to state prisons and state welfare systems, according to a 2005 report from the American Association for State Colleges and Universities.
Con
-- Allowing in-state tuition, especially during tight economic times, takes opportunities away from U.S. citizens and legal immigrants.
-- It rewards undocumented students and their families for breaking the law while punishing legal citizens and legal immigrants by taking away enrollment slots for them.
-- It provides incentives for people to immigrate illegally to the U.S. or to remain in the U.S. after visas have expired.
-- Granting resident tuition rates violates the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996. This question remains to be decided in courts, including a case pending before the California Supreme Court.
-- It's too costly, and tax dollars should not be used to support undocumented students.
-- Even if these students graduate from college, they will not be employable if they are still undocumented after graduation.
Dec 1, 2011 at 12:10 p.m.
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Crazy Homeboy, the illegal invaders bring us nothing of value.
Legal immigrants, the ones who went through all the right steps to come here, fine. Those that want to blend into American culture, as did the Irish, etc., fine. The rest? Deport them all.
We have been invaded, so much as was done during the second world war, we should suspend Habeus Corpus and conduct house-to-house sweeps, detaining ANY person found to be here illegally and deporting them as quickly as possible.
There are, in most major cities, enough unused warehouses to house the invaders until sufficient rolling-stock can be assembled to take then to the border.
Prior to the opening of our borders in 1965, America had an excellent industrial base, a booming economy, and a very, very small narcotics problem.
Now, the trouble isn't so much with the illegal immigrant-they are just the foot-soldiers of the Internationalists who would like to see our Nation reduced to serfdom for their own profit.
Start at the part of the problem you can reach-seal the borders, deport the invaders, and then maybe we can get a start at restoring our Constitutional Republic.
Nov 30, 2011 at 2:22 p.m.
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"Now, look back to 1965 and what shape the country was in then, and look at it now. Guess that pretty much shows how much good "diversity" has done."
Trust me, America does good all by itself in destroying itself, just look at the current state of economic affairs.
You think immigrants caused all of this mess?
For Hispanics, the divorce rate is lower, chlidren out of wedlock is lower, better work ethic, family values....
We could use more of them in our country.
This country could learn
Nov 30, 2011 at 2:13 p.m.
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"Because of that, Blacks and Whites in this Nation are inextricably bound together as Americans."
If this was true, why weren't the slaves given the same rights after the American Revolution?
Nov 30, 2011 at 2:08 p.m.
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"Crazy Homeboy, this Nation was founded by and for Whites of European descent"
Exactly my point. America was established on a set of ideas under the pretense that "All men are created equal" unless of course you were a woman, slave or didnt own property.
America was not created on a particular language, culture, skin color, beliefs....etc...
The Irish had to be told they were white even though they said they were Irish.
Nov 30, 2011 at 9:49 a.m.
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Crazy Homeboy, this Nation was founded by and for Whites of European descent. In keeping with the traditions established by the Africans themselves, these first Euro-Americans imported Blacks as slaves. Because of that, Blacks and Whites in this Nation are inextricably bound together as Americans.
Until the implimentation of the Hart-Celler Act, immigration was restricted by quota, and the quotas pretty much limited immigration to White Europeans.
When Hart-Celler "reformed" immigration law, the "melting-pot" concept was abandoned and "diversity" became the Holy Grail.
Now, look back to 1965 and what shape the country was in then, and look at it now. Guess that pretty much shows how much good "diversity" has done.
Black and White Americans are being pushed aside for the sake of the flood of Latino immigrants pushing across our borders, legally or not. This invasion is changing the foundations of our Nation. "Press one for English".
How's this. Bring home ALL our troops, fortify our borders with them, sweep the country for those here illegally, deport them all, and reverse Hart-Celler. That should give us a pretty good handle on who's here and who gets in in the future.
It's really a very simple question. Do we wish to maintain a First-World society and lifestyle, or should we welcome a chance to descend into a Third-World cesspool?
Nov 29, 2011 at 7:21 p.m.
Nov 29, 2011 at 6:53 p.m.
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Ezoner
I was just making a point in response to SG saying that if Germans would immigrate by the thousands to the US that people would hoot and holler.
I disagree with his comment. That's it.
Nov 29, 2011 at 4:48 p.m.
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People that attempt to compare this to the days of slavery or european migration need to understand we are at a different point in history. We needed external labor at that time. We didnt have enough citizens to support the development of our infrastructure and our manufacturing base. Now -- we are in a declining manufacturing base (or flat best case) , and we have people immigrating illegally. So time and necessity of labor is the differnece.
Nov 29, 2011 at 4:05 p.m.
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SG
Laws are laws. I get that.
All I I am advocating is for these folks to follow the proper steps to become citizens. Then, they can partake in getting an education.
No need to call others parasites as this country can make itself look bad all by itself. Just look at our current state of affairs.
"Now, if it was twelve million Germans that walked, jumped, and swam into our country, I can hear the screams for deportation already"
I beg to differ on the above comment.
After the American Revolution, why weren't the slaves, who composed 20 percent of the population at that time, treated as equals? They were here way before any other immigrants from Europe yet miraculously they were not recognized as true citizens until 1865 when slavery ended, legislatively.
What happened to "All men are created equal"?
And, European immigrants were welcomed with open arms (most of them-I know certain groups like Polish and Italians suffered some discrimination).
Why? They didn't look like Africans or Mexicans, or dark-skinned. That's why.
I truly believe that this nation was not intended to be a pluralistic nation.
This is why I have an issue with your statement. Germans look like regular Americans so the outrage would be minimal.
Yet when
Nov 29, 2011 at 3:16 p.m.
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Say what you will, drink the kool-aid and vote obama, whatever. The United States has been invaded by TWELVE MILLION Mexicans, here without any legal authorization.
Now, if it was twelve million Germans that walked, jumped, and swam into our country, I can hear the screams for deportation already.
Americans, White and Black, need to work and vote to close our borders and rid our Nation of the parasitic INVASION we have endured.
Any elected official that refuses to comply with that clear goal-removing those illegally in the country-needs to be replaced. IF the Federal Occupation as a whole refuses to deal with the invasion, then it's time to dismantle it and start over.
Nov 29, 2011 at 3:07 p.m.
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"It's all they know, whether it be Madison or Janesville or whatever. They pretty much are American," said Javier Neira,
Wrong !!--These kids (And their parents) Broke our Laws & came here ILLEGALLY...that carries consequences...cuz (Duh), when ya do Wrong things, then Bad happens...!!!--They are ILLEGAL & should get NO benefits from this country...The Scream Act will NEVER pass...American's had 2 amnesties jammed down our throats & all amnesty gets us is MORE ILLEGALS...therefore we are smart enough to learn from prior mistakes, even though these Illegals refuse to Learn from their Lawbreaking activities...GO HOME, come here the Right way!!!
numbersUSA.org--Join If You want an End to "Birthright Cititzenship"!!!
JudicialWatch.org--Sign the Petition...Tell Your State Gov't to Enforce Existing Immigration Laws...DUH!!!
Nov 29, 2011 at 2:24 p.m.
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Its simple. Apply for a green card, apply for sitizenship. Become a US citizen and then you can pay in - state tuition. If not, you are not a legal citizen and therefore, cannot get he benefit of in state tuition.
Nov 29, 2011 at 1:36 p.m.
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I am all for that, believe me. Where there is a will, there is a way.
Its there for the taking. Not only for these folks but for every person in the US.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that immigration laws have to be enforced.
No arguement there.
Nov 29, 2011 at 1:20 p.m.
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vatoloco-why aren't these kids made to become legal when they turn 18? the point is they are not legal residents, so they don't get in state tuition...when this young woman becomes legal, she will get in state tuition...
Nov 29, 2011 at 10:26 a.m.
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"when all they do is cause us more hardship paying for their expenses."
Don't worry, I do that for US citizens on a much larger scale already.
I'd like to see some of the unemployed folks try and work the fields to pick lettuce and grapes.
Nov 29, 2011 at 9:59 a.m.
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".....but lets make sure they can get their college paid for when there are so many other LEGAL people not able too????"
Again, it is not about free tuition, it is about state tuition rates.
Not sure who gets free college tuition these days. I am still paying on my loans.
The US let's other nations borrow money, how do I benefit from this?
Nov 29, 2011 at 9:38 a.m.
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Has anyone looked up the meaning of ILLEGAL????? If you are going to remain in the US become legal and learn the language---You are not to be here as technically you are criminals. Why do we always have to change things for people that can not accommodate in the US. In Mexico you either learn Spanish and become a citizen or leave-plain and simple....Why do we have to bend over and kiss their ***** when all they do is cause us more hardship paying for their expenses. I swear if I see one more dropping off their children at school in a Lexus I'm going to .....but lets make sure they can get their college paid for when there are so many other LEGAL people not able too????
Nov 29, 2011 at 9:38 a.m.
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Frogger
They cannot get a job.
Nov 29, 2011 at 9:20 a.m.
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The bottom line is that our leftist friends want to discriminate against legal United States citizens who live in other states by charging them more in tuition in order to subsidize the education of Mexican immigrants who live here illegally. If our friends were really interested in fairness, they should be insisting on in-state tuition for everybody.
But they're not, which tells you they are in no way interested in fairness.
Nov 29, 2011 at 9:05 a.m.
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Vato- not sure you answered my question.
HOW will they get a job if they are illegals??
Felons and illegals have something in common. Neither are SUPPOSED to vote.
dado4- LEGALLY- no mention of doing illegally!
I am all for people coming here. Just do it legally like others have to.
If you brought in a child you ALL go back as a family.
Nov 29, 2011 at 8:41 a.m.
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"The ability to pay for higher ed is shrinking from everybody, not just illegal immigrants. No matter what you call them, they are criminals"
The US educates criminals in prison.
I even used a link from Micheal Moore, how about that.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-f...
Nov 29, 2011 at 8:23 a.m.
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so why are these kids not made to become legal citizens when they turn 18? Why should they pay in state tuition if they are not legal residents?
Nov 29, 2011 at 8:15 a.m.
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There are so many "illegal" immigrants that had no choice to come to the USA...their parents brought them here when they were very young. The USA is what they know. These young kids grow up in our educational system only to have door after door shut in their face. I am amazed that many stay in HS under such circumstances. These young people need to have something to keep them going and be productive citizens.
Nov 29, 2011 at 8:03 a.m.
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You know, I challenge the veracity of the very first line of this story.
I don't believe that a "small number" of students are having difficulty because their tuition doubled. I believe the majority of students are having difficulty- and their tuition did not have to double for this to happen. Tuition has been skyrocketing since the 90's, with no appreciable increase in return.
The ability to pay for higher ed is shrinking from everybody, not just illegal immigrants. No matter what you call them, they are criminals. People would not be so sympathetic if we were trying to secure instate tuition for lets say, Canadian bank robbers.
Nov 29, 2011 at 7:05 a.m.
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Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.
Nov 29, 2011 at 6:52 a.m.
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Perhaps the colleges could offer a course that would teach the illegals how to become a US citizen.
Nov 28, 2011 at 5:05 p.m.
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Why are these students not made to become LEGAL citizens when they turn 18? Her parents decision to come here illegally was not hers, but now she is over 18. Don't get me wrong-I'm all for someone trying to improve themselves, and I think it's great this young woman wants to go to college. Is there a reason she has not begun the process of becoming a legal citizen?
Nov 28, 2011 at 4:49 p.m.
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SG
What happened to manufacturing?
We could not afford those high priced union made products that provided bloated pay and benefits for unions.
Quit blaming the illegal immigrants for country's problems.
I mean, look at the state of our current economic situation in this country.
You think it was caused by illegal immigrants?
It is only a testament of our educational system.
Nov 28, 2011 at 4:41 p.m.
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SG
Our country was based on a set of ideas not culture or religion.
Laws are different, I understand that.
What does it mean to be an American?
It was ok to decimate Native Americans and take their land?
Nov 28, 2011 at 4:37 p.m.
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"I'd like to say cut them some slack, but I'd hate to see my kids not be able to finish school because of an illegal"
Don't worry, we trail other countries in education, like math and science.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/1...
And graduation rates are much lower than other countries....nothing to boast about
"When it comes to high school graduation rates, the United States is 20th on the list. Germany, Japan, Korea and the U.K. all do better with graduation rates of 90 percent or more. In the Unites States, it's just 75 percent.
We do it all by ourselves, no help from the immigrants.
Nov 28, 2011 at 4:36 p.m.
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The INVADERS have a very simple solution at hand. Go back to Mexico and get a free, or almost free, education.
Yes, Invaders. They aren't "undocumented workers". they aren't even "illegal aliens" anymore, they are an invading army, swamping our country and our culture.
The lower-class, the poverty-stricken here aren't even the ones being most affected my this INVASION. The middle-class, the small-business owners, they are the ones that are being cut-off at the knees by an endless supply of disposable cheap labor.
Forget Demican and Republicrat, it's time to start taking back our Constitutional Republic.
Nov 28, 2011 at 4:20 p.m.
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In the "olden days" of our country, kids (and adults) commonly died of diseases, hunger and injury. Crossing the prairie in covered wagons and homesteading was a tough life. Today, it's just "too darned hard" apparently for these illegal aliens to follow the rules and simply apply for residency. Funny how soft we humans have become in only about 150 years...
Nov 28, 2011 at 4:13 p.m.
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"Calling an illegal immigrant an undocumented immigrant is no better than calling a drug dealer an undocumented pharmacist. "
This was so good it deserves mentioning again!
Nov 28, 2011 at 4:11 p.m.
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Sorry, i have no sympathy. I see what all the students from Asia, Europe, and Africa do to get here and attend college, They often have to fly back to their home country for no other reason than to extend their student visa, with no promise that they will make it back.
I don;t think undocumented persons should be allowed to attend college period. It has nothing to do with hate, it has everything to do with rules and following them. If my pals from the other continents must do it, you should too. The only difference is they can sneak in because they don;t have to fly here.
Nov 28, 2011 at 4:05 p.m.
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The rights afforded to one are the rights afforded to all. If you think liberty and freedom can be hoarded, you know nothing of liberty and freedom. In the end all societies that become exclusive fail because of declining numbers or they bankrupt themselves trying to keep out what can go around. Just ask China.
Nov 28, 2011 at 3:53 p.m.
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First and foremost, close the borders and patrol them so that the Mexican government knows we mean business. Hard to believe after 9/11 you can't fly out of Chicago without being ridiculed by security, but yet illegals can easily enter our country. As far as the ones that are already here and have been here, (ones who's parents brought them) I'd like to say cut them some slack, but I'd hate to see my kids not be able to finish school because of an illegal. Tough call.
Nov 28, 2011 at 3:53 p.m.
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Why are comments allowed on this article? Somebody's feelings might get hurt! (sarcasm)
Nov 28, 2011 at 3:29 p.m.
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Drat those pesky immigration laws!!!
Nov 28, 2011 at 2:30 p.m.
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i dont think illegals deserve to go to our colleges if they are illegal and apply, authorities should be notified and they should be arrested and shipped back to there respective countries!
Nov 28, 2011 at 2:17 p.m.
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Frogger
I am advocating that they prove to be good citizens and then apply for citizenship.
You cannot hire an illegal obviously. Everyone is afforded free education in k-12 regardless of immigrant status.
Just think of all those people that are citizens that waste teacher time and money only to drop out and cost more money through welfare, poverty, and possibly prison time. Not saying all dropouts are criminals.
Nov 28, 2011 at 2:13 p.m.
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"They pretty much are American"
pretty much- lol- except for being here illegally you are an american????
So other than being illegal you are an American??
So why is this tough on them and nobody else?
So the schools know they are here illegally??
Shouldn't somebody say something?
I guess the laws need to be changed somehow then. If you bring your kids here illegally they are still illegal.
Go through the proper process and come here legally. With the rules now why wouldn't you try to come. Free school, free medical, free food. The Americans live off the government everyday when they are capable of living on their own. Why shouldn't everybody get to come and do it too???
Nov 28, 2011 at 1:59 p.m.
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I am talking free education k-12.
So how do they get a job when they are here illegally and with a degree now.
Nov 28, 2011 at 1:44 p.m.
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frogger
Nov 28, 2011 at 1:11 p.m.
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Okay you cannot hire an illegal so how do you hire one who went to schooling past High School- which they get for FREE.
We are talking about tuition rates, not getting free tuition. Big difference.
No one gets free tuition unless you are awarded a scholarship.
People usually pay back what they borrow.
Nov 28, 2011 at 1:25 p.m.
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Yuo can claim "exempt" for your payroll check so no taxes would ever come out.
Correct if paid cash under the table - nothing paid either. The Soc Sec number is bogus anyway.
Nov 28, 2011 at 1:16 p.m.
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Calling an illegal immigrant an undocumented immigrant is no better than calling a drug dealer an undocumented pharmacist. There are plenty of LEGAL citizens who would benefit from the funds going to support illegal immigrants.
Nov 28, 2011 at 1:11 p.m.
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Okay you cannot hire an illegal so how do you hire one who went to schooling past High School- which they get for FREE.
Nov 28, 2011 at 1:11 p.m.
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Here’s how AB 131 does not help anyone:
http://www.600words.com/2011/10/ca-dream...
And here’s what will happen when AB 131 Illegal Alien Students get a free CA higher education at the expense of (mostly) Middle Class Legal CA Residents and Legal Immigrants and cannot be legally employed: They go back to their “home country”, even though “USA is the only home I know.”:
http://unioncity.patch.com/articles/acti...
Nov 28, 2011 at 12:53 p.m.
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This is really simple.
Your tuition should be based on your permanent residence. If your residence is Wisconsin, you pay in state tuition. If your residence is any of the other fifty states or another country, you pay out of state tuition.
The illegals permanent residence is whatever country they came from. Until they do the proper paperwork and go through the legal process, they are NOT a resident of Wisconsin. If you are too lazy to apply for citizenship through the proper channels you should not enjoy the benefits of citizenship.
And before anyone comments about the "too lazy" part. I have numerous friends that have become citizens the proper way and it is not that hard to do. If you choose to be here illegally, it is because you are too lazy or you have something to hide.
Nov 28, 2011 at 12:20 p.m.
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We spend about 70 billion or more a year for people who do not add any value to our society.
Are you guys and girls ok with that?
http://truecostblog.com/2009/12/21/ameri...
Nov 28, 2011 at 11:52 a.m.
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I suppose the term Illegal Alien is acceptable when used in Official Discourse in Legislation that targets Illegal Aliens, specifically, to receive free money for higher education and back and front door amnesty schemes.
Nov 28, 2011 at 11:50 a.m.
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jcommon
Nov 28, 2011 at 10:03 a.m.
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"The young people should not be punished for what their parents did"
This is true, but they shouldn't be rewarded for it either!
They are not just being rewarded on the basis of being children of illegal parents. They are proving to be productive people that can contribute to our society in our communities.
Nov 28, 2011 at 11:44 a.m.
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"-- It's too costly, and tax dollars should not be used to support undocumented students."
We waste tax dollars on US students who drop out and end up in poverty or prison costing even more money.
What should we do with these students?
Let's face it, our educational system is not designed to fulfill the market forces of today's technological revolution.
Many companies seek educational capital from other countries because the US is not in a position to meet these opportunities.
Nov 28, 2011 at 11:26 a.m.
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So if I grew up in Wisconsin, went to UW schools, and paid Wisconsin's outrageous taxes for 10 years and then moved away, my kids could not get in state tuition.
But if I moved in to the state illegally a couple of years ago, paid no taxes and lived on the dole, then my kids COULD get in state tuition.
This is a Democrat's idea of fairness. What a joke.
Nov 28, 2011 at 11:04 a.m.
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Illegal Aliens are Illegal because, for the purpose of reality and official discourse, they entered USA Illegally, or with intent of using falsified documents to remain. Even if they "overstay" their visas, their status becomes "Illegal Alien."
Nov 28, 2011 at 10:03 a.m.
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"The young people should not be punished for what their parents did"
This is true, but they shouldn't be rewarded for it either!
Nov 28, 2011 at 8:51 a.m.
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RetiredAirForce: I deal with undocumenteds every day as part of my job. Don't kid yourself. Most of these people have socials. They purchase documents many of which are either nonexistent numbers or stolen ssn's & they often work undetected for years. In fact I had 1 case where the person stole the social of a UW prof & since the feds changed the Red Flag Rules I had no duty to report the identity theft to the authorities & in fact would have gotten into trouble had I done so. That's not right. As for the women, it's called come to the US, have at least 1 baby on US soil & get food stamps, Medicaid & every public benefit possible for that child. Now they want discounted higher education? Last time I checked higher education was a privilege & not an entitlement program. I agree with other commenters as I'm sure you do: boo hoo, cry me a river.
Nov 28, 2011 at 8:03 a.m.
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Look everyone, I understand your thoughts and feelings about immigration.
It is the fault of the illegal parents who brought these kids into the US.
The young people should not be punished for what their parents did, that is all I am saying.
We waste so much money on other things that I hate to see these young folks lose out on opportunities to contribute to our communities by becoming productive residents in our country.
Nov 28, 2011 at 7:23 a.m.
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It is the fault of our government that Illegal Aliens come here. If our government did not make it so easy for them and their children to get free this and free that, we would not have the problem of so many illegals coming to the US. I'm sorry that Mexico does not take care of their citizens, but why would that be the taxpayers problem here in the US? If they wish to come to our country, they need to do it legally and become US citizens and pay into the system like we all do.
Nov 28, 2011 at 5:38 a.m.
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And struggle they should
Nov 28, 2011 at 5:30 a.m.
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IT WOULD BE NICE IF THE feds WOULD DO THERE JOB & DEPORT THESE PEOPLE
Nov 28, 2011 at 4:45 a.m.
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If they are undocumented, where are they going to work with no social security number?
Nov 28, 2011 at 3:11 a.m.
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Illegal immigrants shouldn't get any help with anything except a ticket back to their homeland. It isn't the taxpayer's responsibility to fund their lives in this country. If they're illegal they can pay out of state tuition. As a nation we need to take care of legal citizens FIRST and handing out benefits to illegals is part of the reason this nation is in the economic bottomless pit it is. Is it the American people's fault illegals bring their children with them when they enter the country? No, so why should we have to put our tax dollars toward housing, feeding, and educating them?
Nov 28, 2011 at 3:11 a.m.
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Illegal immigrants shouldn't get any help with anything except a ticket back to their homeland. It isn't the taxpayer's responsibility to fund their lives in this country. If they're illegal they can pay out of state tuition. As a nation we need to take care of legal citizens FIRST and handing out benefits to illegals is part of the reason this nation is in the economic bottomless pit it is. Is it the American people's fault illegals bring their children with them when they enter the country? No, so why should we have to put our tax dollars toward housing, feeding, and educating them?
Nov 28, 2011 at 1:06 a.m.
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Let's not consider Immigrants children who are US Citizens as defined by our Constitution. Send them back to their fates with their parents also.
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Grab the pitchforks hon! We got an angry mob of morons, what else is new.
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SHUT the borders down 1st and foremost or a moot point.
Nov 27, 2011 at 10:56 p.m.
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You mean instead of hasta la visa Sandman? Breaking the law is breaking the law. Outstaying a visa is not legal as is aiding and abetting known criminals. I just do not get how people will not discuss the elephant in the room or should I say the 11.5 million in this country.
Nov 27, 2011 at 10:41 p.m.
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Are you kidding me? Boo hoo!
If you aren't here legally, then you shouldn't be here at all, and taxpayers should not be forced to supplement your education or health care or kids or anything else!
There are millions around the world who'd like to come to this country and stay. If you want to do so too - follow the law and apply. Otherwise...hasta la vista. baby!
Nov 27, 2011 at 10:33 p.m.
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Undocumented students cannot file a FASFA (financial aid application) so they cannot get financial aid. Many private scholarships also require the FASFA as part of the application process. This means no grants, scholarships, or student loans for these students. Once the undocumented students obtain the higher education, they will have more hurdles to jump as they try to get the proper visas to get jobs. It is do-able, if they find an employer to sponsor them, but it may take years to accomplish. Asking these students to apply each term for remissions of the non-resident portion of their tuition is the only help available to them, and there is no guarantee it will be renewed each term. This is really a small price for the tax-payers to pay for a few talented students who have no other options for financial aid.
Nov 27, 2011 at 9:51 p.m.
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@Donhonda -The term "illegal alien" is part of an official discourse that is not the same as reality. The reality is that these are people without legal documents.
Nov 27, 2011 at 9:33 p.m.
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Illegal Alien is the correct legal terminology and is even in the title and contents of CA AB 131 (Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors) and seen at:
http://leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?...
Nov 27, 2011 at 9:28 p.m.
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@ DonHONDA U.S. foreign policy IS to blame for a large part of the problems in Mexico and Latin America and IS to blame for the predicament of immigrants with illegal status. US political and economic interests in Latin America are a large part of why those countries are unlivable now. The U.S. has had it's military and pocketbook in so many Latin American countries making sure that popular national liberation movements that were trying to make the countries better for the majority were put down. Also, economic policies like NAFTA and CAFTA have brought US companies to Latin America and have put many small businesses out of business-leaving low wages and crappy jobs in their wake. PS. We are NOT talking about Illegal aliens. We are talking about people without legal documents.
Nov 27, 2011 at 9:13 p.m.
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I support people who do not respect the law everyday in the US prison system.
Nov 27, 2011 at 8:57 p.m.
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vatoloco our legal citizens are good people too. A lot of us cannot afford to pay for our children's education these days and there is little available for financial aid to help them. I would much rather pay for LEGAL citizens of the U.S. to get a college education than someone who is here for free! I have no problems helping them if they go through the citizenship process like all others who have migrated here from other countries. I have friends from other countries who have paid thousands to become U.S. citizens; they deserve help with their education. I don't care if they came here when they were 2 or 3 years old, they are still illegal immigrants.
Nov 27, 2011 at 8:53 p.m.
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Vatoloco: I dont like that either...
Nov 27, 2011 at 8:21 p.m.
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It is obvious that susana176 is desperate to have a valid argument. First she accuses everyone with a "con" argument as being racist, xenophobic, conservative upper class white men. Way to show your "hate" card and then you decline from there. Legal Middle Class Students and Legal Immigrants will be hurt the most by AB 131 as they have to pay the ever-increasing tuition while seeing their State aid reduced or become nil and watch as Illegal Alien Students receive a free ride because most of the aid is based on need, not merit (either requiring no minimum GPA (Tution waivers and EOPS), or 2.0-2.6 GPA. Elite Liberals and Elite Conservative will be able to pay increased tuition, while finding a way to avoid the pitfalls.
The "taxes" Illegals pay is very little because it is based on their under-the-table, Black Market cash economy. The only time Illegals pay income tax (using ITIN)is when they feel they qualify for the $1000 per child tax credit and declare only the minimum amount allowed, again, because of no documentation of income. This does not compare with the Billions taken from the social services, impact on our education system, safety personnel, and the healthcare system. Throwing more money at this problem will not solve it but make it worse, especially when Illegals cannot be legally employed and therefore, cannot contribute the "promised" taxes to support our society. It will encourage increased Illegal Aliens to defy our Rule of Law. If we have all these extra dollars lying around, it should be used to send the message, the till is closed.
Join StopAb131.com to sign the repeal petition and to help in turning the tide.
Nov 27, 2011 at 8:20 p.m.
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Funny that we give billions to foreign nations....but we have a cow to educate good people.
Nov 27, 2011 at 8:16 p.m.
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I will just say I am happy America's economy is in the crapper. This way less illeagals want to come here. All the pride they exercise about there home country also confuses me. If you love your home country so much, how come you dont stay there and try and better it?
Nov 27, 2011 at 7:56 p.m.
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The "cons" section has many errors. It's obvious that they are based on opinion, but those opinions are myths created by conservative, upper class white men. It is racism, classism and xenophobia working simultaneously together.
"Allowing in-state tuition, especially during tight economic times, takes opportunities away from U.S. citizens and legal immigrants."
Providing in-state tuition to undocumented students does not, in any way, take opportunities away. Many of them have been living in the country for many years, and their parents have been paying taxes into the general fund, which also pays for the public education of citizens and legal residents. Undocumented students don't even have access to financial aid, so to say that they are "taking away opportunities" is ludicrous.
"It rewards undocumented students and their families for breaking the law while punishing legal citizens and legal immigrants by taking away enrollment slots for them."
Obviously, undocumented students did not come on their own, they were not the ones to decide their path to the U.S. when they were young. So how does that make them law breakers? There is no punishment for citizens/residents because citizens and residents are already privileged, they already have the advantage of receiving financial aid. Society has already degraded undocumented students as second-class human beings, they are the real minority. They do not have an advantage over citizens/residents when applying to colleges, because they have been accepted through their merit alone, they go through the same prerequisites like everyone else. If we want a good workforce, why shouldn't we nurture the growth of the best of the best based on their work? If we prioritize status over dedication, what are we going to be left with? A lazy workforce that won't steer the country in the right direction.
"It provides incentives for people to immigrate illegally to the U.S. or to remain in the U.S. after visas have expired."
Only undocumented students who have been living for a long period of time in the U.S. would be able to qualify for in-state tuition. Due to America's worsening economy, the flow of immigration has decreased in the last few years. Immigrants are not going to migrate to a country solely based on the fact that there is "in-state tution." There are other important factors that they have to take into consideration, such as finding a job.
Nov 27, 2011 at 7:55 p.m.
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The US stands to benefit from a culture that doesn't respect the law? That's what illegal means.
Nov 27, 2011 at 7:40 p.m.
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The US stands to benefit from what the Hisapanic culture brings.
Family values, excellent work ethics, and loyalty.
Some of these students were 2 or 3 when they came to the US.
I would rather see funds used to develop these folks as awesome USResidents than funding unnecessary wars.
Nov 27, 2011 at 7:23 p.m.
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I agree DonHonda
Nov 27, 2011 at 6:50 p.m.
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There is still the option to become a citizen by serving in the military.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderl...
Nov 27, 2011 at 4:39 p.m.
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We are talking about Illegal Aliens. We are not responsible for the Illegal Actions of Illegal Aliens Parents. Look to them for the hardships that is heaped upon their Illegal Children. We are not to blame for their predicament, nor should we be footing the bill for their "higher education". If there is any US money to spent, it should be in the enforcement of our current working Legal Immigration Laws, holding those who employ Illegals responsible, and deportation. Only then will the message be sent that, "The US is now closed to those who disrespects our Rule of Law and our Citizens and Legal Immigrants."
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