Whether or not you agree with Gov. Scott Walker's repair bill is certainly your own choice. While I would politely argue that when you have bus drivers in Madison making more than $100,000 a year there is a systemic problem that needs to be fixed. Yes, all those millionaire bus drivers and overpaid teachers are to blame for our state's budget deficit. In 2009, Madison's highest-paid city government employee was John E. Nelson, a bus driver who earned an astonishing $159,258 over the course of the year. In all, there were seven bus drivers who made more than $100,000 that year. That is indeed excessive. They're among the seven bus drivers who made more than $100,000 last year thanks to a union contract that lets the most senior drivers who have the highest base salaries get first crack at overtime. And how much did Nelson earn in overtime that year? His overtime pay amounted to $109,892, almost 70% of his total compensation.

The public sector workforce is comprised of only 12% of Wisconsin residents, but yet this small group has taken its game of extorting the taxpaying public to such an extreme (e.g., retirement at age 50, cadillac benefits, excessive time off, excessive pay including overtime pay, pay raises during recessions, double-dipping), that municipalities all across Wisconsin are on the verge of bankruptcy! Most foreclosures are due to exorbitant property taxes, and since the foreclosure rate continues to increase, property taxes need to be drastically reduced, which means the financial abuses in the public sector need to be dealt with, regardless of who is governor. This is NOT a Democrat or Republican issue; it is a financial necessity.
Instead of whining and complaining, why don't public sector workers just switch to a private sector job?

AVERAGE WAGE AND BENEFITS (remember this is for about 9 months of work)

TEACHERS:

Milwaukee $86,297
Elmbrook $91,065
Germantown $83,818
Hartland Arrwhd $90,285 (highest teacher was $122,952-lowest was
$64,942)
Men Falls $81,099
West Bend $82,153
Waukesha $92,902
Sussex $82,956
Mequon $95,297
Kettle Mor $87,676
Muskego $91,341

STAFF:
Arrowhead - Bus mgr. - Kopecky - $169,525
Arrowhead - Principal - Wieczorek - $152,519
Grmtwn - Asst Princ - Dave Towers - $123,222
Elmbrk - Burliegh Elemetary - Principal Zahn- $142,315 (for a primary
school!!)
Madison - Asst Principal - McGrath - $127,835

UNIVERSITY of WISCONSIN STAFF (2009) (salary alone):

Michael Knetter - Prof of Bus - $327,828
Carolyn Martin -Chancellor Mad- $437,000
Hector Deluca - Prof of Nutritional Science - $254,877 (really??)

(source:Madison.com

-as the UW removed salaries from being posted online in 2007- why if they
are so low?)

How about some other "public servant job" ??? What do they make?

Madison Garbage men (2009) (salary only):

Garbageman, Mr. Nelson earned $159,258 in 2009, including $109,892 in
overtime and other pay.
Garbageman, Greg Tatman, who earned $125,598
Madison garbage men made over $100,000
30 Madison garbage men made over $70,000

MILWAUKEE CITY BUS DRIVERS (salary only):

136 Drivers made more than $70,000
54 Drivers made more than $80,000
18 Drivers made more than $90,000
8 Drivers made more than $100,000
Top Driver made $117,000 (Source WTMJ)

(The average private bus driver makes $9-13 an hour (about 20,000 yr) with
no pension, or healthcare.)

We can only hope the version 2012 firmware upgrade addresses the decency deficiency. Absent that, let's hope it enhances the ability of the Misguided_Mass_of_Mechanical_Misery to swallow its own medicine.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo....... you seem to be ill educated on the legal issues of Wisconsin and Human rights, but then being a "Tokyo Robot" I guess we can excuse the human attacks.
Maybe a new set of instructions in your 2012 model will be more adapt to common decency.

lmmfao Why is it that the person who is first to personalize things like this is ALWAYS the first to cry foul?

Just curious, Gazette Staff. It's o.k. then for someone to make off-color comments about someone's family, especially a child?? Really?? Do you have any kids? See mouse's 3:16, for one. You deleted my response, then left the attack on my 8-year-old son. I guess whoever monitors this doesn't like kids, or have any.

"no relevance to sex on this topic."
-
I did not even mention that word. I guess it's on YOUR mind. That's what's scarey. Just ask Wiggle.

You know, it's funny.... really. When you two guys, Wiggle and Mouse, come out of the walls just to attack little old me. I guess I really touched a nerve with you, huh? And now your whole life revolves around coming here and making wisecracks about my family, and me. How proud of yourselves you must be. And now here's where you get defensive and say it's all my fault........here it comes.....
-
Make sure you hit chapter and verse. I always love it.

Wiggle - Regarding your 11:12, are you getting some help?

Sounds like you have something to hide, rodent.

http://www.recallscottwalker.com/2011/11...
By the way Robot, I asked that your comment at 11.24 be removed.
Your level of conduct on issue mixing, shows it"s true colors.
See no relevance to sex on this topic.

Imagining a youg boy playing with Legos or mopping a floor is not perverted. Imagining a young girl, as you say, "turning tricks" is.

So Ms Creekmore is all for the recall of Walker but does not see how she is actually nullifying thousands of votes that put Walker in office in a fairly won election. A Feingold said the other day it ain't over until we win. That is the lefts way.Keep wasting money on recalls. Sign the petitions... once is not enough 100X is ok. One guy in Milw even admitted to signing it 80X.

One Percent Walker is up the creek without the paddle.

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder[1] in which the individual is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy,
Symptoms of this disorder include:
Reacts to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
May take advantage of others to reach his or her own goal
Tend to exaggerate their own importance, achievements, and talents
Imagines unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance
Requires constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
Easily becomes jealous
Lacks empathy and disregards the feelings of others
Obsessed with oneself
Mainly pursues selfish goals
Trouble keeping healthy relationships
Are easily hurt and rejected
set unreal goals
want "the best" of everything
Appear as tough-minded or unemotional

Now I'm a fake??
-
They were saying Newt is a fake. Try to keep up.

Now I'm a fake?? C'mon, rodent, you can do better than that. Your put-downs are pathetic.

"I ment you"?

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo...... I ment you, but I guess you are like brothers.

Fake, mook, samey-same. He's a career politician, that Newt is. And I won't vote for career politicians anymore.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo....... more like a fake!!

take a hike scooter, we're sick of your crap.

I'm a libertarian. I wouldn't vote for Newt if you paid me. He's a mook.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo....... 8? According to Newt Gingrich your kid should be mopping floors and cleaning toilets, not playing with Lego.
Where are your Republican values?

"LOL apology accepted."
-
I see from the deletion that you finally figured it out. Good. I was disappointed, almost.
-
See, that's why I love sarcasm. It's the best way to make fun of stupid people without them knowing it.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo..... Lego at 18?

Janesville council members need to pay attention: citizens are tired of lies and being screwed! Listen to the people you're supposed to be representing or you may be jobless like Walker is about to be soon..

Don't wait up for me, wig. Time for me to turn in. I am one of the 1% (that actually work for a living,) and I get up early.

"I'm sure you have a video game to keep you busy till I get back."
-
Sometimes. Only when my boy wants me too, and I feel like it, which isn't often. It's in his room, and usually he's building stuff with legos, etc.

Ezoner -...but Obamacare is the law of the land, duly voted in by a democratically elected majority in congress..and elections have consequences you know! (OK - I've been waiting to remind some people of how vocal opposition to railroaded legislation can bring on some big changes.....sorry, but I couldn't resist to point out the similarity between the extremes on both sides of the aisle).

----

Were the schools a free-market system, with permission to set wages and prices as they see fit, then perhaps you would be correct. But Act 10 limits all increases to COLA - nothing more without a referendum. So school boards CAN'T pay market increases even when teachers become hard to find. (Just another "tool" from the state's #1 of the same name.) You will no doubt notice the problem first in Math, Science and Special Education. It will take a couple years to show up, but it will be there.

LOL apology accepted. I would love to debate with you about what a loser Walker is. Unfortunately someone whats to keep living and I need to go help them achieve that. I'm sure you have a video game to keep you busy till I get back.

"There you go again, using your intelligence to the fullest. Your a sad excuse, to bad I don't give a sh.... I just love showing everyone how you act like a 7 year old! LOL LOL :0)"
-
Now written correctly:
-
There you go again, using your intelligence to the fullest. You're a sad excuse, too bad I don't give a (expletive). I just love showing everyone how you act like a seven-year-old.
-
Everyone watching? Wiggle puts sentences together, spells, and punctuates like a seven-year-old.

Wiggle, I see you've got your grundies in a bundle again. You know, like when you were 14.

;)

Robot_Lord said, "Explain yourself, if you can, in relation to the above quote."
-
My statement was self-explanatory. Well, I guess that's only true if the reader is capable of simple logic. Thanks for being so considerate--I prefer the ultra-soft mega rolls.

Thanks for the lesson in economics, I love all that graph crap that can be skewed any way you want to get the results you like. I wish it had a place in the real world. I t occurs to me that the battle between politicians seems to be just that, a battle between different thinking economists. I really lean toward the classic economists, less government intervention would hopefully lead to the market correcting itself, that would include teachers wages as well. The problem with predicting if teachers wages would rise, is as you say about dynamics. Economic models are just that, not real time facts and figures. It's hard to throw the Obama health care plan into the mix, since it seems no one really knows what it will do in the long run. Predictions in Washington seem to have a way of not happening, doesn't matter what party you belong to. I would like to fire them all and start over. If Congress was serious about fixing the economy, they would start with themselves. We need term limits for them, end the perks they only get and make it a job where only dedicated people that want to make a difference for everybody, would want that job.

http://www.verifytherecall.com/
-
Just joined the effort. Worth it to keep the Boss Tweed tactics of the Democrats in check.

Glad to see Recall folk out over the weekend...... Thanks guys.

Stubby --- Assumming you are correct -- teachers will be locked inat some minimum pay --- just what do you think will happenn in the healthcare system when Obamas system kicks in??? That would be far worse. People will die.

The reality is -- supply and demand -- assuming teachers leave as you state, then as the supply gets low, the demand will increase and you will see teacher salaries rise, and you will see great teachers making salaries that reflect their skill and ability. You cannot take a snapshot of the demand supply curve. You must understand its dynamics -- as those slaries rise, more teachers will enter the market until the profession reaches an equalibrium point for the supply/demand of teachers. I would also project that there will be an increase in teacher aides to allow the teachers to become more efficient, allowing lower wage aides to support the teachers, such that higher skilled and demanded resources can be rewarded.

"Agreed. That's what happens when elitism takes over any system. The teacher being the elitist in this case."
-
Explain yourself, if you can, in relation to the above quote. I doubt you can think of anything other than another general blanket comment or statement. And I should go buy some more toilet paper. My poobah likes the soft 2-ply, btw.

"Hey, it's Monday. Don't you have some office and bathroom supplies to order?"
-
Hey, it's Monday, shouldn't you be hitting the elliptical machine and losing some of that excess poundage?

Robot_Lord said, "Couldn't be any simpler than that."
-
Agreed. That's what happens when elitism takes over any system. The teacher being the elitist in this case. Hey, it's Monday. Don't you have some office and bathroom supplies to order?

nomores - You flatter yourself in thinking that I care.

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism would work, and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich – a great equalizer.
-
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan." All grades would be averaged, and everyone would receive the same grade – so no one would have to fail, but no one would be able to receive an A.
-
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride, too, so they studied far less. The second test average was a D. No one was happy.
-
When the 3rd test finally rolled around, the average was an F.
-
As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased – but bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would agree to study for the benefit of anyone or everyone else. All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor explained to them that socialism would also ultimately fail for exactly the same reason – because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when someone (government) takes the reward away, no one will try or care enough to strive to succeed.
-
Couldn't be any simpler than that.

RLOT, thank you for removing that sliver of doubt I had about your ignorance.

ALERT!! ALERT!!! There is finally conclusive and incontrovertible evidence that both Osama bin Laden and Muammar Kaddafi are in fact DEAD. Yesterday, both of them signed a Recall Walker petition in Madison.

I can justify paying people more every year based on: (1) inflation in the cost of living (people should not lose ground every year). (2) experience, to a point, is strongly correlated with expertise. (This is why teachers never received unlimited advancement for experience. They hit a maximum and stopped receiving additional pay for experience). So it never was a bonus paid every year "just for teaching another year", as it is so frequently misinterpreted. Now, in the past, school boards spread out the increases, so instead of reaching a full professional salary in about 5 years (as happens in many professions - start at a lower, probationary salary and quickly increase to full professional salary), the Boards slowed the progress (and their payout) so that it took 15 years, or more in some cases, to reach full salary.

----

I say all that in the past tense, because under Act 10 it is no longer an issue. Salary schedules and even a full professional salary will not apply any more, so we're arguing over dead bones here. Most teachers will be hired at probationary salary and never advance from that....and that is a shame. Good teachers are worth every penny they are paid, and usually much more....and there are a lot more good teachers than bad ones. The fact that they are starting to leave the profession because they cannot support their family on their salary is a shame for them, and a tragedy for our children. A worker is worth their wages, and if you expect Cadillac results with your kids, you can't pay Yugo wages. We will all eventually get what we pay for....

Nothing is more deeply entrenched than the IGNORANCE of the "experts".........

"This is what's wrong with much of society. Idol worship & pay them extreme amounts of $ while nurse's aides, etc. get paid lousy."
-
That's a rediculous analogy. One has nothing to do with the other. If no one watched football, football players wouldn't make 30K a year. I'm not going to feel guilty about watching the Packers, nor feel jealous that Aaron Rogers makes more in 15 minutes than I make in a year. If the Packers can afford to pay him millions based upon revenue collected from those who wish to be entertained and are willing to pay for it, more power to them. Not one Nursing Aid has lost his or her job because Aaron Rogers is the best quarterback in football.

"If you pay people like burger flippers, you will get outcomes that amount to burger flipping."
-
What about assistant cheese shredders?

" I can't justify paying a teacher with only a few years experience $70k with all thier benefits. "

Why not, we idolize pro athletes who make 10 or 20 million a year.

What you just said tells me you don't deem education as important.
____
This is what's wrong with much of society. Idol worship & pay them extreme amounts of $ while nurse's aides, etc. get paid lousy. We have some weird priorities. Plus those nurse's aides, etc. get to fund new sports stadiums through taxes. We should be ashamed as a society.

I don't idolize pro athletes or celebs, I think their wage is rediculus. I just don't see where someone can justify that kind of wage for the job being done-especially if there is no accountablity for performance. There are probably teachers that have earned/deserve/work at a $60k-$70k level. I also know that there are a lot that exhibit a level that would dictate a salary of far less if you compare to a similar skilled salaried job in another profession. What I don't like is the "entitlement" attitude exhibited. I'm sure there are qualified college level graduates that qould be happy to do the same job, probably better than some, for far less money. I have a masters and real world work experience and am qualified to teach at a collegate level (in my profession). Does that mean that I'm "entitled" to earn $70k+ as my education and work history far exceed that which is required to become a teacher? How about skilled college educated professionals such as nurses or engineers-where continued education in their field is a standard? Shouldn't they make more. Education is one of the few degrees where this kind of salary is standard-not based on performance but on time put in. Maybe I have it all wrong. Maybe I should quit my job, go back to uww and take a few courses, do an internship for a semester and get my teaching degree. Then I can teach somewhere (like Craig) and complain/not complain because I'm making more, doing less, paying less for insurance, and have better retirement benefits. And I can jump on the bandwagon and blame Walker for all this.

mteg, there is no teacher that makes $70,000 a year with just a few years of experience - NONE. Teacher contracts are publicly available, so spare us your ignorance. Secondly, when companies pay someone a salary it is because they want to pay them less, not more. Otherwise, you would have to pay over time. The Mayo Clinic has some of the best outcomes, lowests costs and their doctors are salaried. If you pay people like burger flippers, you will get outcomes that amount to burger flipping.

" I can't justify paying a teacher with only a few years experience $70k with all thier benefits. "

Why not, we idolize pro athletes who make 10 or 20 million a year.

What you just said tells me you don't deem education as important.

Nomoreres

Ok, I will not do that anymore.

Actually, my comment was based on sarcasm. There is no way that I could justify making $120k in my current role unless it was a phenominal year for me, just like I can't justify paying a teacher with only a few years experience $70k with all thier benefits. My point about salaried positions, is that anyone who works in one knows (or should know) that a 40 hour week does not apply. Without any sort of performance evaluations that affect pay, how can you justify paying someone more every year based on nothing more that longetivity? It makes no sense. The days of paying individuals based on need or whats expected vs. what they produce are coming to an end. That is why our automotive manufacturers cannot compete with foreign companies. It has little to do with number of vehicals sold, and more to do with the cost to produce (highest cost being labor) is more than a foreign counterpart. Unions had their time and place...50 years ago.

vatoloco, Once again, I agree with your recent statements, but you need to stop saying things such as "A license is required to drive, but does it mean all drivers license holders drive well?" This has no place or relevance in this discussion.

Mteg - so you support teachers getting paid well so long as you get paid better and receive better benefits? Because no teacher making $60-70k makes $120k per year with benefits, and retiring at 53 1/2 with 80% benefits also does not happen. What you are really saying is that "nobody should have it better than I do" - the ultimate statement of selfishness. So while you can probably find salaried professionals who make less than teachers, I'll bet I can find a larger pool of them that make a lot more.

I support teachers making $60k-$70k a year, if I get paid $120k a year with full medical, dental, and chance of retiring at 80% wages at 53 1/2. Otherwise no, their pay should be based off work done, hours put in, education level, and lastly time put in. Paying someone that much money based on nothing more than a teaching degree, not dependent on any kind of performance evaluations is as dumb as paying someone $20+ an hour to put a bolt on a car. Teachers are salaried which means that you get a base wage-not based on hours of work put in. There are lots of professional employees that work far more hours, have more education and job experience, get less benefits, and make far less then this.

Nomoreres

And by the way, I support teachers making 70 to 80 k a year but with very limited ( very, very) union influence coupled with recruitment efforts that only take the very best candidates.

We take too much interest on what the badgers and packers are doing.

"You seem to be the only one who is suggesting that because one person might not be good at what they are licensed for then all people with such a license must be bad"

Nomoreres

Wrong.

I truly believe that there are a lot of awesome teachers out there making a difference. I have the utmost respect for them. I am talking about the ones who need a different career.

My point, just because you are licensed to teach does mean you are a good teacher.

"BTW thanks for helping my point on public v private, which you really have nothing on Public school teachers perform better in much more difficult positions, period!"

Yes fear I agree, our students are diverse in learning styles, culture, language, and education levels.....

However, the system is not closing these achievement gaps for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

The system, many teachers, look at kids in poverty as kids who can't learn. They look at kids that cannot speak English correctly as slow. They look at kids in special Ed as kids that do not stand a chance. They look at culturally diverse kids as kids who will only be successful in vocational tracks rather than professional tracks.

The system places many of these kids in remedial and lower expectation classes. Like I said, expect low you will get low.

This is surprising to me since most teachers are liberal and equality is one of their goals. Just goes to show you that even liberal minded folks discriminate.

" Enough blather already. Just state that you hate public education, teachers and most of all the unions that represent their best interests."

No, never, I do not hate teachers.

I feel that the teaching methods are out of whack.

The teacher cannot be looked as the supreme holder of knowledge.

Most teachers utilize the banking approach, they simply deposit content into a kids brain with trivial facts, events, and people. How is that effective?

Our public education system is far removed from Jeffersons quote at the University of Virginia.

"1820 Dec. 27. "This institution will be based on the illimitable freedom of the human mind. For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it."

Why do we need remedial centers in colleges?

We have some of the best college and universities yet our public education system lags in graduate rates and math and science proficiencies.

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/leaders...

"Many students enter college in the United States without the basic academic
skills needed to be successful in their coursework."

@RLOT - the link you provided to the study was actually very interesting. Too bad you completely misinterpreted the results. The researcher, in this case, was looking at attrition (students who drop out of a program) in comparison with grades in their first course in the department. Not what was "easy" and what was "hard" as a major. What he found is that the science/math curriculum first courses tended to be more challenging than those in the liberal arts (wow- big surprise there...) and (especially male) students became quickly discouraged. His conclusion was more on the line that science and math departments should offer easier introductory courses to encourage student retention. But thanks, it was an interesting read!

Oh, and Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa, or whatever you celebrate to everyone on here, even you Gazette Staff. See yah next year.

Well SarahB1 with all the doubletalk and such on these boards tell me what you would believe if the role was reversed. I think I am taking a break from this site, just to much childish junk (which I was drawn into admittedly) that adds nothing to the real issues going on with politics, just "I hate Walker" or "I hate Liberals". Ya'll just need to get over it and kick out all the idiots in office.

Vato- this one is for you;
http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

People that are educated are employed at a MUCH lower rate. Make more money and are NOT in poverty. Why is it that you seem to be so anti-education?

I also wonder what qualifies you to be such an expert of teaching method and technology? Seems to me you blather on and on about really nothing at all. When was the last time you spent any time in a classroom to be such an expert?My God! Enough blather already. Just state that you hate public education, teachers and most of all the unions that represent their best interests.
BTW thanks for helping my point on public v private, which you really have nothing on Public school teachers perform better in much more difficult positions, period!

Spare us your liberal propoganda jane-can't

Figured this was the right place to put this--

http://www.thenation.com/blog/164957/wis...

Walker is a hypocrite, a liar and a moron. In comparison, the Koch brothers are only hypocrites and liars...

Robot - if you think your perverted mind making statements about a 14 year old - as you say "gets under my skin, so you win?"
Your proving my case that you are in great need of mental help!
OF COURSE IT DOES? just the idea you think of such things makes me vomit!
Why would they ban ME? YOUR the one posting about 14 year old's turning tricks.

Yet this still remains after mine is removed? And yeah I suggested it be removed more than once.

SarahB1
Dec 4, 2011 at 11:44 a.m.
Suggest removal
Get with it, FEAR: It's kerSTY, like sty in your eyelid. You know what a STY creates ... bacteria AKA pus.

Because the Harassing comments rule is hard to understand? You even admitted you went "tit for tat," and "responded in kind" with the insults rather than doing what you should have done. Gee, I wonder why your comments were deleted....

I just heard Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo...... sniff, sniff!!!!!!!

I just like to challenge "The Man", kinda similar to OWS but without the camps and public defecation.

Thanks Poobah, but I was looking for a response from the Gazette. Still dont know why select people get away with insults, unless of course they are the moderators.

kersty52, your argument reminds me of people who bet on horse races and complain after almost every race that the races are rigged. If that's truly what they feel, why would they continue to bet their money on race after race? I'm quite certain the Gazette staff fully supports everyone's right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment, but those rights do not extend to this website. This is a privately owned and operated website and we are all guests here that understand the Gazette has absolute say in what is and is not allowed. Move on.

Glad I let my subscription run out, my money doesnt need to support a media group which suppresses free speech, Channel 3000 at least honors debate. And I would like you to post to me or email me why my last comment was removed regarding your own rules?
Oh, and one last thing, I take screenshots with my posts for future defense as well.

Ok Gazette staff I see you like playing games and dont like to be challenged with your own rules, but I see that I can be compared to puss and its A-OK...must be little kids running the show today, or the Gazette is just that far left it doesnt want independent thinkers on here.

A fools errend. How the mighty will fall.
Re-Elect the public union buster!
Re-Elect Gov. Scott Walker!

Good bye Scotty, you will be ousted. The 99% will overcome you and the "Koch" kool aid drinkers that voted you in to office. Scotty, you are going to have time real soon for David Koch to "fly you out to Cali!" :-) Your attack on the working class may continue, but you will have a different zip code. Thank you to the many folks with recall petitions, you are truly bringing joy to the season!

What's a prevert, wiggle? And go ahead, plaster me. I can then point you out to the staff as harassing me, and get your account deleted. By the way, I'm so very glad that I got under your thin skin like that. Badgers win, Packers win, Robot wins. Good weekend.

Don't worry fish, I doubt robot brain will be posting much longer. Every time he does, regardless of the topic, I will plaster his words which point out what a prevert he is!

Just because you have a degree does not mean you can teach.
-
Ah yes, the use of general, vague statements.
p.s.
I think it's kinda funny YOU point out grammatical errors here (or any topic) too.

Robot brain - why would you even post the comment about 14 year olds "turning tricks"? If you didn't know I was female, why would that tought even enter your mind? You are very sick if that just 'pops' into your head while posting comments!!

Robot brain, you knew I was female, you think you can run and retract the fact you have visions of 14 year olds as you say "turning tricks"? you need mental help!!

"Organizers in Rock and Walworth counties say they’re impressed with the outpouring of people who want to sign petitions to recall their governor."
-
"Outpouring of people?" Does that mean that they are urinating in public before they sign in league with their "Occupy" brethren?

vatoloco, you said "Nomoreres

Ever known or know someone whom you might have said, "Man, he or she would be a great teacher"' even though they don't have a teaching license?
______
Yes, and if you've read my other posts thoroughly (such as 11:10) you'd recognize that.
_____
"A license is required to drive, but does it mean all drivers license holders drive well?"
__________
No, and I don't know why you keep going back to that. Do you know anyone with a driver's license who is a good driver? You seem to be the only one who is suggesting that because one person might not be good at what they are licensed for then all people with such a license must be bad. I give up. I don't know what point you are trying to make that isn't severely flawed. You seem to think that since you made a comment you must adhere to it whether it makes sense or not. And this from someone claiming to want to find the middle ground?

Nomoreres

Ever known or know someone whom you might have said, "Man, he or she would be a great teacher"' even though they don't have a teaching license?

A license is required to drive, but does it mean all drivers license holders drive well?

"And you think that the medical license is what causes that? Increasingly, it seems you simply resent "the piece of paper"."

I resent folks who wave a degree as a right of passage as a supreme being.

"It's disturbing that you first think of child porn when a female says she began working at 14! Your a sick puppy!"
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Obviously you are disturbed. That is no longer a point of contention. And incidentally, I have no idea you were or actually are a female until you just mentioned it. That might not be true for all I know.
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Also, please refer to my comment regarding proper contractions between multiple words.

"Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo..... I think your jealous of teachers."
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I'd think less if I were you. You might hurt yourself.

Fishbelly, I was responding in kind. I dont lay around while people try and intimidate, too many people in this world do. It was a tit for tat. I just dont actively seek out insulting people as some people on here use that as their only defense.

Code Name "V" is right on. Just because you have a degree does not mean you can teach. You can blab in front of a classroom, but that doesn't mean you are not a mook that no one listens to, nor would want to. Some of the most arrogant teachers I know are the most boring people in the world, and the worst teachers. They don't think so, however. They are legends in their own minds.
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I know very GOOD teachers, too. They are not liked by their teaching peers, because they actually have fun in life, and with their students, and are either Libertarians or Republicans. Vicious, isn't it?? Vicious liberal arrogance. Those teachers are jealous that the good teachers are so well liked by the students.
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And by the way, all you folks with a degree, the contraction formed from "You" and "Are" is "You're," not "your." You'd think that you'd know that.......Maybe you need to go back to High School and take English again. I wouldn't normally mention that, but considering the subject we are on, I think it's really funny!!

vatoloco, you stated: "How many times have you had a doctor with very bad bedside manners?

Just because they hold a medical license or degree does not mean they are great people persons."
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And you think that the medical license is what causes that? Increasingly, it seems you simply resent "the piece of paper".

"Actually yes it does. You do have to prove you can teach to become a teacher......"
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Ferris Bueller...........Bueller...........
Bueller.......Bueller........
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I'm enjoying this. Especially Mouse and Wiggle. You are making my day.

vatoloco, I agree totally with your 11:52 comment and am still bewildered as to why you feel compelled to add your 11:53 comment. The degree isn't what makes you effective in teaching any more than a degree in any other discipline makes you more effective, simply because of the degree, but again, I would prefer to take my chances on someone who has pursued that degree rather than someone who hasn't. You may be able to perform great medical services because of what you learned at home, but I'll still take my chances with someone who has earned a medical degree. What the person with the degree should have learned and put to practice is what you stated at 11:52. You may have had some bad experiences with some teachers, but I suspect you've had some bad experiences with people in other fields as well. Again, it's not the degree that is the problem.

You want to attack me for a different viewpoint, have at it. Its typical left handed politics, dont like what a person says, try and cut them down
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What's your point? You just did the same thing in that post...

How many times have you had a doctor with very bad bedside manners?
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I've never had a doctor with bad bedside manners, how many have you had?

"just as I would prefer to receive services from those who have degrees in their chosen fields: accountant, doctor"

How many times have you had a doctor with very bad bedside manners?

Just because they hold a medical license or degree does not mean they are great people persons.

Just because you hold a PHD does not mean you can teach what you know.
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Actually yes it does. You do have to prove you can teach to become a teacher......

Just because you hold a PHD does not mean you can teach what you know.

"Personally, I would prefer to learn from someone who has studied and prepared for their chosen career, just as I would prefer to receive services from those who have degrees in their chosen fields: accountant, doctor, etc. I may not be understanding your comments correctly, but that is how they seem to read."

I agree with you. I would like to be taught by someone who knows his or her content very well but has exceptional methods on how to transfer learning with problem solving, interacting, and inquiring methods instead of just sitting back and listening to a lecture about what they know.

"You seem to be very opposed to "the piece of paper" (the teaching degree)"

Not at all, I am opposed to systems and methods.

I would never suggest that, never.

My question is,

Why do we have a world renowned college and university system yet our public school system is failing?

vatoloco, I agree with much (perhaps most) of your apparent philosophy of teaching. You seem to be very opposed to "the piece of paper" (the teaching degree). Are you suggesting the educational system would be better if there were no degrees or educational paths for teachers to take? You refer to our forefathers as being self-taught, do you mean to imply that everyone should be? People learn in different ways, some learn very well on their own while others flourish with more structure. When reading many of your comments I'm left with the idea that you think "the piece of paper" somehow makes that person less effective. I have a difficult time understanding that. "The piece of paper" doesn't make a person more or less effective, his or her performance does. In much the same way, a self-taught individual may or may not be effective as a teacher. Personally, I would prefer to learn from someone who has studied and prepared for their chosen career, just as I would prefer to receive services from those who have degrees in their chosen fields: accountant, doctor, etc. I may not be understanding your comments correctly, but that is how they seem to read. Perhaps home schooling is the choice for you, but it wouldn't be for everyone. Please clarify your position for me.

college degrees are of no use if you don't know how to practice what you have learned.
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lol Chances are if you don't know how to practice what you've learned....you probably didn't get that "worthless piece of paper" to begin with. Also, it's not so much that our leaders aren't smart, that's that they are easily corruptible.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo..... I think your jealous of teachers.

Socioeconomic I meant.

I am talking about general education in elementary and secondary schools.

And yes, college degrees are of no use if you don't know how to practice what you have learned.

Tell us then, how great is that piece of paper?

Ever notice the current sociology economic chaos in the US?

Most of our political leaders are college educated, wouldn't we be in better shape if those college degrees were great?

There is an achievement gap for several reasons
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He's talking public vs. private teachers. If anything you're just backing up his point.

Yes fish belly.

"As opposed to the public teacher who is OBLIGATED to take on each and every student regardless of economic situation, developmental disability, etc..."

There is an achievement gap for several reasons.

1. Many teachers think poverty stricken kids can't learn.

2. Many teachers look at culturally diverse students as students who also have a deficiency in learning, except of course Asian Americans.

3. Many teachers think special Ed kids will never amount to anything so they get placed in classes that have drill and exercise classwork instead of more challenging expectations. Expect low and you will get low.

4. Most of the curriculum is designed for the White Protestant culture which clashes with other cultures, like African and Latino cultures. Consequently, there is a shutdown in learning.

5. Much of the US history taught in school views other cultures as detrimental to the "American culture"' whatever that is. Indians, Africans, Hispanics are not part of the U S heritage. Example, Columbus, he discovered the New World? You mean there wasn't a world before he got here?

6. We don't appreciate other cultures, we think our culture is Supreme.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo
Dec 3, 2011 at 6:19 a.m.
Suggest removal

"AND I've never been unemployed since 14 years of age,"
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I didn't know there were any fourteen-year-olds turning tricks around here. When did THAT start? This is very disturbing news....very upsetting.

then you say
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Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo
Dec 3, 2011 at 8:07 a.m.
Suggest removal

Did I say you were a hooker? No, you said that.

you can't remember what you said? what employment involves "turning tricks"?
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It's disturbing that you first think of child porn when a female says she began working at 14! Your a sick puppy!!

Does a piece of paper do that?
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You realize you're talking about a college degree here?

"If you think a degree is nothing more than a "piece of paper" than you are truly ignorant and uneducated."

The current education method is basically to tell kids where they belong in the pyramid.

We need to teach kids to be resourceful, free thinkers, inquirers, problem solvers, and self sufficient.

Does a piece of paper do that?

Stubby

I agree. It is not the teachers, it is the teaching methods and practices.

Most of our teaching methods take a banking approach. We deposit "learning" instead of engaging and learning together, teacher and student. The teacher is looked at as the supreme holder of knowledge, which is faulty.

What does it mean to be educated? To retain trivial facts, events, people, history in our brains?

I think not. We teach kids to be submissive to our authority instead of freeing their minds to be explorers, inquirers, problem solvers and question authority.

There world is not absolute, it is not complete, and it has much room to grow.

If you think a degree is nothing more than a "piece of paper" than you are truly ignorant and uneducated.

What an ignorant statement for you to make, and rediculous!
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Irony?

"But of course you, like our Governor, are self-educated. I'm glad you realize, at least, the inherent hypocrisy of bashing how "easy" college is for teachers when you, yourself, couldn't even hack that."
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Nice try, eggbert. Hacking it had nothing to do with it. You just assume that out of ignorance and hate. Just because I don't have a piece of paper to crow about, doesn't mean that I'm any less intelligent than anyone with said piece of paper. There are plenty of people in the world in the same boat as me that are much more intelligent than people with sheets of paper that they can hang on their wall in order to look down their noses upon anyone who doesn't have one. What an ignorant statement for you to make, and rediculous! Sad, really. I've never felt compelled to nor needed to self-edify myself with a piece of paper. But if you enjoy patting yourself on the back, go ahead. It's your life, not mine, thankfully.

That's all that was out downtown all weekend. Two people...
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How many people need to be out collecting sigs to satisfy you? Heck, if there were more than 2, you'd probably be here claiming how desperate the recall movement is getting by putting someone on every corner downtown....that or harassment.

For Rocky:
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http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/cheri/confere...

Vato - of course having a degree doesn't mean one is good at any job - teacher, doctor, engineer, electrician, plumber, etc... But just become SOME do not benefit from their training does not mean we discount the value of the training, altogether.

Two people... That's all that was out downtown all weekend. Two people... Granted I was only downtown about 12 times so far, but the recall effort has hit the brick wall. 300,000 signatures and stagnant. You might get 500,000 signatures, but everyone who wants to vote against him has already signed. It is a sign of the times. People are happy with Walker. Wisconsin is being run effectively and responsibly. Walker is not responsible for the unethical practices of former administrations. Wisconsin is on its way FORWARD!

Oh boy FEAR, where did I ever use the word courageous? Where? I used gall, so use that one. Point it out to me....trying to use words I didnt makes you look like a politician, trying to twist words to suit your own needs. Your the one full of fear and rhetoric as I read most of your posts, but I will not call you dumb since I dont know you. Oh, and its Kersty, not Kertsy, could be an innocent error or otherwise....just saying.

You can in a PRIVATE SCHOOL!! They can boot kids out if they don't measure up, can't afford, have disabilities. They are private schools, they can do what eva they want!! Kinda makes the equation skewed doesn't it?

Most of our forefathers also used outdoor toilets and didn't use toilet paper, toothpaste or deodorant.

to those saying don't recall, just vote him out at the next election: is that what you want companies to say when it is discovered that their "product" causes injury? eh. we'll keep it on the shelf until the next production run...who cares how many people are injured in the meantime...?

a recall is to get a bad product off the shelf. (and perhaps in the garbage where it belongs?)

". But of course you, like our Governor, are self-educated"

Most of the fore fathers were self educated.

Fear

You can't pick and choose what kids you teach.

Having a degree in a content area does mean a teacher is effective.

Having a degree in education also does not mean you are effective.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo
Dec 3, 2011 at 3:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
I don't know you, or even care who you are. You are pretty much worthless to me
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Typical rebub - only gives a crap about themselves, THAT is what's wrong with this country, heartless, uncaring rebubs that will watch you and your family starve to death than to allow you to draw unemployment - you know that thing you paid for each week while employed.

RLOT - Can you provide a link for your list, please? I'm interested in the methodology used in the research. Did they just sample graduates in each field - average their GPA's - and decide that a high aggregate GPA means "easiest" course of study? I don't even know where to begin to point out the obvious flaws that would accompany such a "study". But of course you, like our Governor, are self-educated. I'm glad you realize, at least, the inherent hypocrisy of bashing how "easy" college is for teachers when you, yourself, couldn't even hack that.

--

Have you considered that Secondary School teachers are required to have full majors in their field of teaching? So by your list, Science, Math and Social Studies teachers took the hardest course of studies, right? I'm sure you're all for starting those folks at 6 figure salaries - with nice fringes like cars and club memberships - because they have studied so hard.

So private school teachers should make more? A chosen group of children, most priviledged and LOWER test scores? As opposed to the public teacher who is OBLIGATED to take on each and every student regardless of economic situation, developmental disability, etc... Yeah pay the private school teachers more they deserve it ,right?
http://www.projectappleseed.org/public-p...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...

""RLOT tells it like it is, I respect that" Yeah Kertsy he also said""Mindless ranting and psychobabble. Oh, I do that, too, I freely admit"" so is that telling it like it is??
I absolutely love the manufactured FOX noise "war on Christmas", I will tell you calling a Christmas tree a Christmas tree isn't courageous. Calling someone courageous for that is very funny. He would be courageous to drive himself around the state spreading his mindless DRIVEL, instead of s secret service style detail (taxpayer provided). Instead he sneaks in and out back doors!! How courageous!!

RLOT tells it like it is, I respect that. Everything gets sugarcoated these days as not to "offend" anyone. Well, thats why this country is in a continued path to Wussification, I would use another word but people would get "offended". Lets just get rid of government altogether and relive the wild west days since CCW was passed. Oh...wait, no blood in the streets either, bet the libs are angry they were wrong on that as well. RLOT, for what it is worth, I will thank you for your service because many people couldnt and/or wouldnt be able to pass the basic PT required to do the job as they blog on their computers in grandma's basement. Before anyone attacks me for any grammer or spelling errors how about getting a life? (I left one in that sentence for you to stew over). I only do that to people who correct others while that person screws up something in their post. Oh, and I am glad Walker had the "gall" to call it what it is, a Christmas Tree.

youkillme said - "So you have not taken advantage of any the government's education aids that are available to soldiers and vets, you and your parents continue to pay for your college education directly out of your own pockets?"
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No, I don't use my benefits. I'm saving them for my kids. I don't need to. Classes are not a financial burden if you know how to save and use your money, unlike the Walmart protestors. And my parents are dead, you heartless, insensitive jerk.

YKM, try using a word other than mook. Come up with something better, or would you like a cracker? Never took psychology, did you?
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Oh, and btw, Am avut negi, care sunt mai semnificative decat tine.

Who said I wanted to teach in a school?

Robot_Lord said, "I didn't need a degree in Ornithology from Cornell in order to get a Master permit in banding to do research."
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Congratulations on your bird banding permit, but that won't get you a license to teach grade school in this state.

RLOT, oh, I'll regret it -- sniffle, sniffle, I'm so scared of mooks like you. You're sooo tough.

And by the way, YKM (I like that, it's like you are a serial killer....), I don't dare to even think that people owe me anything. You said that, and if you ever said anything like that to my face, you'd regret it. I don't know you, or even care who you are. You are pretty much worthless to me, based upon your own statements. Now, go buy some cheezits.

youkillme, you really kill me. I love you people who read into text like it's the spoken word. No, you don't owe me anything. I don't owe you anything either. So, go to Walmart and buy some cheezits.

"Why are you belittling them?"
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Just trying to get a rise out of Duhwin. He thinks that teachers on the public side should make as much as the private sector teachers. Two entirely different animals in anything other than a communist state, which is what he wants. And in a communist state, the two would not exist, just one. Again, what he wants. I take issue with that. I think teachers make what they are worth, and for them to think that just because the private sector makes more, they should make the same based upon the same piece of paper. I worked in construction management from 1988 to 2002. I am very experienced. I even asked Tim Cullen for a job, though my experience is not in general construction, since he was a friend of my father, and because there is little difference between what I did and his managers did. Tim told me that I was too experienced for him to hire. I cost too much. He was better off hiring a kid out of college and teaching him. I respected that. Good business decision. I went active Army.

RLOT, Hell no, I'm not going to defend your service - you have done nothing for me. Don't defend my rights. I've never asked you for anything. How dare you act like people owe you something? You think your patriotic just because you're in the military? You're nuts.

Oh, an poo, I missed it that you said you have a degree in EE. Good for you. That doesn't make you more intelligent than anyone else, or your accomplishment any more dramatic than anyone elses. I'm an autodidactic Ornithologist, on the side. I didn't need a degree in Ornithology from Cornell in order to get a Master permit in banding to do research. That took 38 years of field work with some of the best in the business, and recommendations from my peers and mentors. They don't teach that in college.

"So you've been living off the government teat your entire life"
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So, you are not going to defend my service?? Yes, I've been serving my country for 24 years. How many wars have YOU had to fight in? How many years away from home have YOU spent? I've spent half this year away from home defending your right to make fun of the service that my brothers and sisters in the military also have to endure. I've seen things you wouldn't want to, just so you would not have to. And I'll have to go back there again. Not bitching about it now. It's my job. It's what I do. I don't have to like it, but how many people really like their job, anyway. I used to like my job. Then Doyle got elected, and I had to go back to the military to take care of my family after he killed so many jobs in Wisconsin. But thanks for letting everyone know that you hate the military. There's a few of you out there. You love the ones you know, and they can do no wrong, and hate the ones you don't, and they can do nothing right, no matter what they sacrifice. It's like a big, cable-knit sweater that you keep knitting, isn't it? Sometimes, they unravel.

Robot_Lord said, "The 10 easiest college degree majors based on GPA 1.Education -You must have missed that, huh poo? Sticks in your craw, doesn't it?? :)"
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As I said, my masters degree is in electrical engineering. I would be proud of any degree in any field. And I surely wouldn't be trying to belittle someone based on the degree they've worked so hard to achieve. Why are you belittling them?

RLOT, So you've been living off the government teat your entire life. What is that? A new form of patriotism? And I'm supposed to owe you something?

"The Ten EASIEST College Majors based upon GPA (which means that even idiots can do well). This is from the "Best Colleges" Website:
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The 10 easiest college degree majors based on GPA
1.Education
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You must have missed that, huh poo? Sticks in your craw, doesn't it?? :)

Mouse, the contraction of "you" and "are" is "You're." You don't need a piece of paper to know that, by the way.

"you joined the Marine Corps not because you wanted to, but because you had to. That you owed it your father"
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You misunderstand how patriotic people think. I owed it to my country first. My father because he served and I owed him that same debt X2. Yes, I had to join. It was my duty to my country. Something perhaps you don't understand. Enjoy your day, if you don't. Better Americans made it happen.

I'm smiling, poobah. That was perfect.

Yes, I have. I worked in construction management for over a decade, serving in the USMCR, National Guard, and Army Reserve at the same time. That all ended when Doyle was elected. He shut down all the white-sheet work, and I lost over 2 million dollars of back-log in one signature, and my employment a month later because we could no longer sustain the business. Doyle did it to balance the budget. He never balanced the budget once, and thousands of Wisconsin construction industry workers lost our jobs and had to move out of state, like I did. I came back, but I've never gone back to the industry I loved. Any more stupid questions?

RLOT writes --"My father was dead-set against me going into the Corps (Obama pronounces it as Corpse). I just wanted to get it over with.
------------ Didn't you earlier say, (months ago) that you joined the Marine Corps not because you wanted to, but because you had to. That you owed it your father? How does someone owe something to someone that is dead set against it? That sounds like you joined the MC to spite your father - not to honor his wishes. Which is it? You also write that you wanted to serve to just get it over with. What was that? 24 years ago? Have you ever had a job away from government in the private sector?

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo..... why I think your jealous of teachers.

Robot_Lord said, "I dropped out of college after one year (which I'm sure you remember). It was boring."
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College is not for everyone. Those who try college and quit should be thankful there are many others who stick with it, graduate and meet the requirements of licensure in many fields--including teaching and engineering.
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When you said, "or any other area of expertise that actually requires effort and dedication" you were being disingenuous and insulting about the tremendous amount of effort and dedication it took people to earn their bachelors and masters degrees in education.
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Then you said, "And this is where you come back with mindless insults about my education and intelligence....like a mook." You're the one who just got done insulting the education and intelligence of teachers. Your education and intelligence requires no further discussion beyond what you've already provided to us.

It's only fair to list the ten hardest majors.... Please note, that Duhwin holds none of these "advanced degrees," nor has he ever told anyone what he holds a degree in. One thing is for sure, it's not one of these, because he's too embarassed to admit what degree he holds. I'm sure it's "Education." What do YOU think?
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The 10 hardest college degree majors based on GPA
1.Chemistry
2.Math
3.Economics
4.Psychology
5.Biology
6.Geology
7.Philosophy
8.Geography
9.Physics
10.Political Science

So you have not taken advantage of any the government's education aids that are available to soldiers and vets, you and your parents continue to pay for your college education directly out of your own pockets?

YKM, My parents. But only for one year. My father was dead-set against me going into the Corps (Obama pronounces it as Corpse). I just wanted to get it over with. I never imagined NOT serving my country, I just didn't know when I would do it - before or after college. I changed my mind about completing college. It was boring and I wanted to see the world. I've been taking online classes lately, and have a few more to go to get a degree, which I only do to further my military career. It's pretty much required now. Things have changed since the 80's. I'm not interested in starting a new career in civilian life when I get there. But thanks to people like you, I can gift the education that I earned in Gulf War I and Afghanistan to my kids. Thank you! They need it, I don't. I am autodidactic for the most part. It's called reading, for one.

The Ten EASIEST College Majors based upon GPA (which means that even idiots can do well). This is from the "Best Colleges" Website:
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The 10 easiest college degree majors based on GPA
1.Education
2.Language
3.English
4.Music
5.Religion
6.Sociology and Anthropology
7.Art
8.History
9.Computer Science
10.Philosophy and Religious Studies
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I rest my case.

RLOT, who paid for your education?

"Ask someone who has finished an advanced degree--not someone who dropped out of college after one year."
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Hey, poo...... I dropped out of college after one year (which I'm sure you remember). It was boring. Like in High School, I already knew most of what they were teaching me. Just ask Mr. Eyster. As irritating as he is to me now (politically), he, at least, tried to find something for me to learn that I didn't already know. I guarantee that in a meeting of minds between the two of us, you wouldn't even show up on your best day. There's Wheel of Fortune smart, and Jeopardy smart. You are the former, I assure you.
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And this is where you come back with mindless insults about my education and intelligence....like a mook. Dis for dat. Tit for tat. Well, whatever. I really don't care what you think, anyway. Like I've said before, people like you don't matter to me, except it's fun to dis ya and get you all sweaty and mad enough to ruin your tofu. Hey, I'm wondering just where do mindless mooks hang out in Janesville anyway, besides Basics and the Speakeasy???

If you are so offended by your own misgivings and inadequacies, fearandrhetoricforcommies, then ignore me. I'd prefer it, anyway. Not much of what you say makes any sense, in any case. Mindless ranting and psychobabble. Oh, I do that, too, I freely admit, but I do it on purpose for a reason and to be sarcastic (I LOVE sarcasm, it's a great way to tell people that they are REALLY stupid, and they don't even realize it). You have no excuse.

Two more signatures today. Courtesy of Kenny Powers and Mrs. Powers. The old Blockbuster on Court Street has some nice folks braving the weather today collecting signatures. Drive by signing.

Really RLOT? I suppose you can back up that STUPID statement with your easily attained masters in instruction? you are getting to be more and more of a cartoon charecter with every post. Becoming easier and easier, to ignore. THanks for being so unreasonable.

If you want to know how "easy" it is to run a marathon, ask someone who has finished a marathon--not someone who dropped out after four miles. Same goes for getting an advanced degree. Ask someone who has finished an advanced degree--not someone who dropped out of college after one year.

"In the private sector they get $3 per hour, per child so 20 children in a classroom for one hour"
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Illuminating. So what you are saying is that the good teachers are in the private sector, which is flourishing because public school teachers suck hind teat, and they get paid for their good work?? Hmmmmmmmm. And you want the public sectors to get paid the same. Why is that? Because you are a communist, perhaps? Sounds like it to me. There's a lot of you socialist Bolshevik mooks on here.

"And that doesn't even include the fact that the teacher is held responsible for the behavior and education of a child that isn't theirs. It also doesn't include the fact that the teacher also handle often ignorant parents. I know engineers and none of them could handle being a teacher - none. So, spare us your pile of crap."
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My grandmother taught K to 8 in a one-room schoolhouse. I wish you were one of her students. She would have spanked you for saying that, and you'd know better. Besides that, I would bet you are a teacher. What I said is correct, isn't it, teach? And you don't like the truth......
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And I agree with you. A lot of kids these days are brats. Most teachers don't have the sand to deal with them, so they call in the cops, etc., rather than deal with it themselves. The majority of younger teachers were never taught by their hippie baby-boomer parents how to deal with things like that. Summer of love......

deplane, I agree with you. I'm not a huge Walker fan myself, but he's better than the alternative, which was Jim Doyle II. I get a kick out of the libtards bashing Walker's budget. Jim Doyle NEVER balanced a budget. And yet, the first thing he did when he took office was to shut down all the White-sheet construction jobs in Wisconsin to free up money to balance the budget. What happened? He spent more money than he saved, and kept spending, and put thousands of Wisconsin construction workers and sub-trade workers out of work. The jobs never returned. And no matter how much anyone hates Walker, let him do his job and then vote him out when his term is over. That's the way adults used to do it before all these whiney little brats came of age to vote. If your guy didn't win, you just lived with it and hoped for better days. Now, in Wisconsin if anything other than a Democrat wins, the democrats go nuts and spend more of the taxpayers money in the millions on recalls just because they didn't get their way. They are like little kids kicking and screaming on the floor of a grocery store. That's what these people's parents raised.........brats.

Robot Lord try some math. In the private sector they get $3 per hour, per child so 20 children in a classroom for one hour = $60 x 7 hours in a day = $420 x 190 days of school = 79800. And that doesn't even include the fact that the teacher is held responsible for the behavior and education of a child that isn't theirs. It also doesn't include the fact that the teacher also handle often ignorant parents. I know engineers and none of them could handle being a teacher - none. So, spare us your pile of crap.

I have an advanced degree in electrical engineering and I've never felt the need to belittle anyone for choosing to work for an advanced degree in education. It's easy for someone who dropped out of college after one year to talk about how easy it is to get an advanced degree...and I'm not talking about Walker.

That's the point. They earn it. You can't compare a degree in any kind of engineering (except for a janitorial engineer) with a teaching degree. For teachers to think that their degree entitles them to a huge salary commensurate with one in engineering or medicine is just stupid.

I know several people with Masters in Engineering and they make a helluva lot more money than 66K.

"That teacher making $66K for 9 months also has a masters degree, which, in almost any other profession, would pay a lot more than $66K"
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A Masters Degree in teaching is the easiest degree one can get, pretty much. If teachers think they work as hard for their degree as someone who gets one in Engineering, Medicine, or any other area of expertise that actually requires effort and dedication, and that they should be paid commensurate with their little piece of paper-degree and not the product of their labor, then they have no grasp of what reality is. You cannot compare a Master's degree in Mechanical Engineering with a Master's degree in teaching. It's like comparing Secretariat to Mr. Ed.

Sounds like he's got your number poopie. What did you do to make respond to you? I suspect hes an independant voter who is able to look across all party lines and tell it like it is. People on the far left or far right just can't seem to cope with that. I haven't had time to read all the comments on this article, but I will say this... I am not a fan of Walker, but I do believe recall elections should not be held just because people simply disagree with the policies of the elected officials. If they have done nothing illegal in the eyes of the law, you let them serve their term and then if you have a majority...vote them out. Where does it stop? Really?

As far as facts are concerned, I get most of mine from JS Online, Politifact, and others.
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The increased spending mentioned earlier isn't an increase in spending. But that's what the socialists are saying. Actually, it's over a million in kickbacks. There's been no increase in spending, but there's been an increase in incentives to business. It makes it "look" like there's been an increase in spending, but that's a lie. Check it out on Politifact. I have no problem with that right now. That's what creates jobs, not protesting and public urination.

Hmmmm. Like I said, Christmas lights. You all hang together. Half of you don't work, and the ones that do work aren't all that bright.

deplanedeplane said, "Robot lord of Tokyo is a gifted individual who takes the time to check his facts."
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Yes, deplanedeplane, it takes a gifted individual to come up with a fact-checked comment like this one that RobotLord recently graced this site with: "Tell me where you live. I want to camp there and defecate on your lawn. I will even do drugs.........shoot up, and invite my friends to join me. We will all shoot up on your lawn, and relieve ourselves there."
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A gifted individual, indeed.

Robot lord of Tokyo is a gifted individual who takes the time to check his facts. It must really burn the individuals that continue to spout their nonsense here, knowing they've been caught. Speaking of caught, Tim Cullen wants to run for Govenor??? I guess he had a lot of practice...running to Illnois.....idiot!

No affection towards you, Poo. No, not from me. But don't worry. You'll find that special someone some day. You know, someone who won't press charges...........

TokyoRosie said, "youkillme, you and the other liberal moonbats on here like Poopbah are just like a bunch of Christmas lights."
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I appreciate your analogy of myself and my liberal friends to the bright, glimmering and shining lights of the holiday. The lights and sounds of the holiday season always fill our hearts with hope for the new year and for a new governor in the new year. But I must admit, I'm a bit taken back by your public display of affection. Thank you, Rosie, you're very kind.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo.... I assume you were made in Japan?

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo...... not replacing Walker, as you seem to put it.
Instead he is faulty, and so we are returning him for a different model.
You could say he is a lemon.

youkillme, you and the other liberal moonbats on here like Poopbah are just like a bunch of Christmas lights.
-
You all hang together. Half of you don't work, and the ones that do work aren't all that bright. If any of you held a public office, we'd have to replace you every year, too.

mouse, it's interesting that while some people are simply believed to be ignorant, others insist upon proving it.

nomoreres - don't fret over mouse's credibility - s/he lost that long ago.

nomoreres..... my freedom ..... your choice.

mouse, Walker's failures are no excuse for your bad behavior. I don't like Walker and I don't like your comments (including your ridiculous comment supported by your FOX reference). When you start using Walker and FOX to support your comments you are in real trouble.

nomoreres..... as the Fox gang would say..... you chose to read it.
Voto beats upon families daily so using a sympathy angle to gain sympathy is his choice.
Maybe you should look into the history of all the families Walker as effected for the worse.

mouse @2:28, I find your comment directed at vatoloco very offensive.

" He wasn't successful simply because he worked hard, otherwise there would be a lot more Ken Hendrick's in the world. Ken was unique."

Really Zoom?

Zoom

All I am saying is that we place too much emphasis on knowing facts, or having worthless knowledge in our heads with degrees.

Being a superb rocket scientist is of no use if you can't be a good team player.

Factual intelligence sometimes does not get you
anywhere.

With a highly touted system of colleges and universities here in the US, you would think our society would be better off if absorbing facts was a good thing.

"Did Ken Hendricks take business classes? Heck, he didn't even graduate high school."

Not sure what your point is. Ken obviously had other interpersonal skills that he learned, or was born with. He wasn't successful simply because he worked hard, otherwise there would be a lot more Ken Hendrick's in the world. Ken was unique.

Wow! vatoloco! You need to rest a while...... Walker can find you another job in the fields. Obviously you want to go backwards in life, so I can see why Walker is your man.

You kill me

We have awesome colleges and universities that people from all over the world that flock to get educated here.

What's the problem with our public education system?

Maybe Hong Kong was a bad example.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/econom...

Increases in wage inequality over the past few decades is primarily a story of the supply and demand of skilled labor together with the effects of technological innovation. Wage increases tend to track improvements in the productivity of labor and gains in productivity tend to be driven by innovations that help workers do more in less time. But in recent decades, technical innovation has increased the productivity of more highly-educated workers faster than it has for less-educated workers. These growing inequalities in productivity have helped create growing inequalities in wages.

But that's not the whole story. The American system of higher education produces skilled workers too slowly to keep up with the demand. This scarcity in the supply bids up the wages of the well-educated even more, further widening the wage gap. If we raised visa quotas on skilled labor, that would help bring supply in line with demand and reduce the wage gap between more and less skilled workers."

"You have a fixation on unions which are little more than free market employee associations to fight back and balance the social and economic power being wielded against them."

I have an issue With both sides interfering with education. Our kids are suffering because both sides are bickering. That's wrong.

It's like two divorced parents fighting in front of the kids.

fear, since when do teachers work 9 months a year. You forgot to factor in 2 weeks at Christmas and 1 week Spring break as well as convention and Thangsgiving off. More like 8 months of work a year.

"A degree is required to teach"

So is a license to drive, but do you think everyone drives ok?

Vatoloco, companies are going to Singapore and Hong Kong for $1.10 an hour labor. They are not going there for an education or educated employees. They are there to rent human machines, millions of them for dirt cheap. You have a fixation on unions which are little more than free market employee associations to fight back and balance the social and economic power being wielded against them. But I agree about education. Advanced education and degrees does not guarantee competence or knowledge within any field. It's way overblown and America more than any other country is far too dependent on using it to judge a person's potential, creativity and production.

"vatoloco..... I come to the conclusion you just hate teachers. Leads me to think you hated school !00% and like Walker, you couldn't handle the real world."

I graduated from high school and college mouse....

And fear.....pretty pathetic that you throw the term "mentally disabled" when you claim to support them in school........uncalled for.....out of line for you my friend....

"And Vatalco, that is right, education should not be under the control of educators"

Who controls the educators brother?

Parents, true caring educators, and successful community folks should be spearheading educational reform and not big WEAC union bosses or politicians who are rich.

"That's really beside the point. Like any other profession, public or private, a teacher that "isn't effective" doesn't last very long in that profession."

I disagree Zoom. I know teachers that show movies all the time and worksheet the kids to death. How is that effective?

The union gets more worried about saving an ineffective teacher than serving the bet interests of the child.

Zoom

Having a degree in education does not make you effective, period. It just means you took education classes. How you approach and implement educational practices is the difference.

Research and look at how Japan, Germany, Singapore approach education and you will be astonished at how worthless our educational system is.

It is not the teachers, it's the system. We don't care about education in this country. We care more about Medicare, Social Security, and ousting dictators.

Why do we pay teachers the way we do? Why are stock brokers paid high?

Teacher pay today saids a lot what we think about education.

We need to start paying them 70 to 80 k a year but we must get rid of union influence and recruit the best candidates.

We have a huge mismatch between what our future economy needs and what goes on in public schools. Why do you think companies go to Singapore, Honk Kong to look for qualified educational capital?

Did Ken Hendricks take business classes? Heck, he didn't even graduate high school.

I don't hate teachers, I hate that the government and unions are controlling the educational process.

These two factions are so removed from the best interests of our students.

In an age of high unemployment, you should not complain about your current job or why it sucks.
Teachers who buy supplies are not being forced to do it so don't complain when they do it.
They do it because they care, I am in agreement with those actions. We Don't teach our kids to care, we teach them to memorize worthless facts and events. Gone are the days of inquiry and teaching our kids to be problem solvers and productive community minded individuals.
I am a descendant of a migrant family, I worked in the fields when I was young. Not many on here are qualified to tell what hard work is.

vatoloco wrote: "Degrees don't mean you are effective Zoom."

That's really beside the point. Like any other profession, public or private, a teacher that "isn't effective" doesn't last very long in that profession.

A degree is required to teach, and a higher degree is required to make a higher salary. When comparing salaries plus benefits between the private and public sector, with people with the same education level, the public sector is NOT overpaid.

And Vatalco, that is right, education should not be under the control of educators, but under the thumb of politicians that I pay for like Scott Walker. That is what the kids need.

Ah Patriots rule the internets. Truck loads of Koch Bros money is on the way. This is all about winning and keeping power in the hands of good rich people like me. Beautiful that there are plenty of tri-cornered hat wearing imbeciles to do the dirty work while I just sit back and let my investment in govt ownership go to work.

poor votoloco.....wish you had something worth saying.

"The private real world"? What is that some crappy scripted reality show starring Scott Walker and Rebeecca Kleefish as Waukesha Barbie? Has to be on MTV.

vatoloco, your 5:10, 5:13 & 5:15 comments suggest you don't care much for public employees in general and perhaps especially teachers. Consider your comments about degrees, teachers not being able to make it in "the real world" & comparing the financial hits these people are taking to unemployed people. How credible would you find comments such as: nobody without a degree is effective, "real world" employees could never teach or tell the unemployed they shouldn't complain because others are going hungry? Doesn't make much sense does it? I hope you keep reaching for that middle ground you said you were. I hope many people do.

Vatoloco: "Many teachers could not handle the private real world. They would want to come back to teaching so fast and appreciate what they have now, believe me."

----

Believe me - you probably wouldn't last 5 minutes in a classroom full of 7th graders. Teachers earn every penny. Also - the 9 month red herring has been repeatedly and absolutely debunked. Most teachers work the same number of hours as other licensed, educated professionals. Do you think people who work 4-10 hour days should be paid 20% less than those that work 5-8 hour days?

vatoloco..... I come to the conclusion you just hate teachers. Leads me to think you hated school !00% and like Walker, you couldn't handle the real world.

Nomoreres

I support education but not in it's current form

vatoloco, I'm having trouble finding your "middle thinking" in your most recent posts.

Vato- tell them to get a job at the state prisons- they're really short handed, but shouldn't there be lines waiting for those jobs? What about the other positions in the public sector? There are a bunch, so your argument has not a lot of merit, sorry.

Tamrlu

There are people without jobs, tell that to them. See how far it gets you.

"teacher making $66K for 9 months also has a masters degree, which, in almost any other profession, would pay a lot more than $66K."

Many teachers could not handle the private real world. They would want to come back to teaching so fast and appreciate what they have now, believe me.

Vato- that's the teachers. What about the other 150,000 public sector workers? It's a big cut and they work all year just like you. It could very well affect many private sector jobs, as disposable income has been cut for those workers, and therefore your company and it's wares may very well be hard hit, as well as your income. The teachers are one section of the public workers. There are many more that are not teachers. JMO

"That teacher making $66K for 9 months also has a masters degree, which, in almost any other profession, would pay a lot more than $66K. It's not like a teacher can make another $7K/month during the summer, doing something else. It's a myth that the public sector is overpaid, even when including benefits."

Degrees don't mean you are effective Zoom.

http://www.superiortelegram.com/event/ar...

That teacher making $66K for 9 months also has a masters degree, which, in almost any other profession, would pay a lot more than $66K. It's not like a teacher can make another $7K/month during the summer, doing something else. It's a myth that the public sector is overpaid, even when including benefits.

fedup - you're carrying a lot of anger and jealousy.
.
Where do your wages come from? If from the private sector, then probably from consumers like me. So why am I not angry that I pay your salary?

There's still a couple of boxes of completed petitions down at the clocktower in Rockford - maybe a Democratic politician can pick them up next time they are down there.

"There is the $6120, at least. Now - I'm not sure how much you make, but cutting $6120 from my family would not have very pretty results."

Hey Stubby

Keep in mind they have summers off and people making less are making it happen. I know, it's hard to get usd to when it gets taken away.

Welcome to the real world, people lose their jobs everyday. Top that.

Pay me 66 grand for 9 months of work and I will be more than happy to pay my fair share. And you forgot to add to that 66 g's the compensation packages that paid for their pension and health insurance. And now that most of the districts are allowed to purchase insurance from other than the gouging unions, that that number is actually less. Trouble is that the public unions are nothing more than breeders of parasitic human beings. Give me more - it's all about me. sorry I have been paying my fair share for ever and it never came out of your pocket. Public employees are paid from tax dollars.

Fedup- Do you not read any of the posts on here besides your own? There are plenty of answers backing up what most people say against Walker (increased spending, etc.). And just because someone disappears on here for a while doesn't mean they don't have an answer... just means they have a LIFE!

Fedup - I don't know about 10 grand, but 6K is more than possible. Teacher at max salary - making about $66k. 5.8% to retirement - that is $3820. Insurance contribution increase of around $2300. There is the $6120, at least. Now - I'm not sure how much you make, but cutting $6120 from my family would not have very pretty results.

lvbald - when is it ever ok to sign more than once. We all know that there is no way that the leftie board is going to do anything to validate signatures. To promote multiple signing is at the very least unethical and ethics are something that you lefties will never have. You are pathetic.

I will post this again.
Isn't this a good thing? Instead of some politician in Madison raising fees and taxes, our local government has to answer directly to its constituents and take some responsibility for their actions. If they need more money, they don't have to ask Madison for the money, and then have Madison raise fees here, instead they have to directly go to the local taxpayer. Yes, it may put some burden on the local governments right now, but it should have happened long ago. More fiscal responsibility is put on the local governments and your local fees are going to stay local and provide for YOUR public employees salaries.

Wiggle - I can never get anyone to post facts to back up the claims that are made. PROVE IT. I see Nicksmom on here today. she posted a few days ago that Walkers changes cost her 10grand. When i asked for proof, she disappeared for days. You lefties all play the hit and run game and never have data to back up your posts.

I thought liberals were all for job training and opportunities for prisoners.Good rehab program for those that want to learn a new trade.

How legit are these signatures when you have all these people in parking lots coercing everyone? They shouldnt have to beg people to sign. How many people I wonder are signing just because they feel sorry for all the idiots hanging out in parking lots?

Zoom and youkillme just served up some humble pie on the Walker spending increases. Enjoy! To partially offset the increases, Walker increased fees by $36 million and had three other tax increases. And then, of course, he's taking away jobs from law abiding citizens and sending them to China. Oops sorry, not to China but to Wisconsin prisoners! Yeah, if left in office for his full term, Walker wants to expand his program of taking jobs from law abiding citizens and giving them to prisoners in return for REDUCED SENTENCES. Do you suppose these "new" prison jobs he took away from the public count toward his goal of 250,000 new jobs?
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http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/0...

Ms Creekmore is a very nice lady. Her problem is being a very liberal democrat whose livelyhood is mostly dependent on social services clients.

Robot_Lord_of_Tokyo:
Do you not understand the wheel tax is a direct reflection of the tools that Scott Walker has forced communities to implement. How can you say he has nothing to do with this when in reality he is the reason the tax is being proposed in the first place. Cut funding to communities they are forced to come up with creative solutions to get the money back.

If you want to sign the petition securely, go to the Recall Walker office in Janesville which is in rented space in the UAW building on Lafayette St. behind A&W and beside Pick 'N Save. Also, volunteers collecting legitimate signatures in public have blue & white laminated ID badges from Recall Walker. It is ok to sign more than once because all the signatures will be verified by the Government Accountability Board before being certified and counted -- duplicates will not be counted.

WalterRuether, you have a moral obligation to report a known felony to the authorities.

You kill me

Your first link might be broken.

Kay5, why do you say there is no way to cross check the names? That's exactly what will happen when the names are certified.

I love how people post they want to report supposed petition destruction, yet people on here have openly admitted to filling out more than one form. Will 540,000 signitures be reached...more than likely. Out of the 540,000 signitures recieved, only 200,000 will be elible to vote. This takes into account people that signed multiple times, people ineligble (felony, lack or ID,non resident, etc...) and individuals that will just fail to turn out on election day. My guess is the voting result will be pretty similar to the last one. There will be some impact, but all-in-all, Walker will win again.

Spending increased 3.5%.
http://wistax.org/publication/2011-13-bu...

Look, I posted that without being condescending.

RLOT Before you open your pie-hole, why don't you get the facts?
- Did Walker increase spending? -

The answer is yes, of course he did. You can learn something by reading the actual state budget.

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/2011-13%2...

Go to page 8 of the document, and you will see the current budget Walker signed into law included a $1,138,844,400 increase in spending. Or you could take the easy route and read the article from JS Online.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/1...

Again, get the facts before you start spouting stupid, ignorant things.??!!"

Several pro-Walker folks have told me that they personally collected dozens of signatures each and then shredded the petitions. I asked for their names to report them, but they refused to give them to me. That is why I will sign as many petitions as I can. I want to know that my signature was counted. If the pro-Walker camp wasn't so open about their plans to illegally interfere with the legal recall process, I may have just signed one petition and not thought anymore about it. Now that I know their plan, I will sign many times and will be well within the law in doing so.

Robotlord: Here's one fact you left out of your rant. Walker stated that he would pay his pension contribution from the get go because "everyone should be pay their own way." Oops. His contributions didn't kick in until fall with the rest of the state employees. A politician not keeping his promises? Imagine that.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepoliti...

Wiggle said....stupidly...."Hey FEDUP-
Collective bargaining is not the only reason so many want to recall Walker. Pull your head out of the sand so you can see what the real issues are.
1) increased fees/taxes on the 99%
2) taxe breakes for his buddies/masters
3) increased wasted tax payer money
4) increased spending - what happened to 'live with in our means"?
5) No new jobs = one of the highest unemployment rates in America"
-
I'll match each of your points with my response.
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1. Enjoy your new wheel tax. Scott Walker had nothing to do with it. And show us where he has increased taxes. He hasn't. You local bureaucrats have, and will continue to do so. Enjoy your new skating rink, too.
2. That's called economic development. And by the way, how much did you get back on your tax return last year, hypocrite??
3. That makes no sense. Sounds like something you picked up at Basics....like a viral infection.
4. Already proven that is not the case. See my previous lengthy post.
5. The current rate of unemployment in Wisconsin is 7.7%. 29 of the 50 states have higher unemployment rates than WI. The highest is Nevada with 13.4. The lowest is North Dakota with 3.5. Wisconsin is below the median unemployment rate. Guess you are wrong again, Einstein.
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"Squawwwwwk!! Wiggle want a cracker!!"

There are people who are signing re-call petitions more than once. Several times. No way to cross check them. They will do anything to cheat. Can't believe the number of people who want their property and income taxes to go up. I'd rather have a job and pay a little more for the benefits like the private sector does than be laid off. Of course the country is turning more to the socialist takers than the producers. Lazy knuckle heads.

"Facts are Walker increased spending did he not?"
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Before you open your pie-hole, why don't you get THE FACTS.
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The answer is no. Research it. Even One Wisconsin Now acknowledges that he has not "increased spending." Again, get the facts before you start spouting stupid, ignorant things akin to "Scott Walker has only seven toes, right??!!"

bignik Dec 1, 2011 at 11:06 a.m.
See your post at 9:41 a.m.

Wiggle; Facts are, you have no facts.

fishbelly Nov 30, 2011 at 10:47 p.m.
Yes it is. Thanks Governor Walker.

Wiggle. Yes, you are wrong as are any other parrots that keep the lie going, but go ahead and tell lies and half-truths anyway. It's the left-wing way. Here's the truth.
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Walker took office in January and was paid $144,423. That’s $7,331 more than his predecessor, Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle. State law calls for the pay of the governor, other state constitutional officers, and members of the Legislature to be set before their terms of office begin.
-
In Walker’s case, the higher salaries were proposed by Doyle’s administration and approved by state lawmakers in 2008. You know, when the Dems were still in control.
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So Walker received one level of pay when he took office. Under the state constitution, that pay will not change for the duration of his four-year term.
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Critics have noted that Walker will be making more than Doyle (true), that as Milwaukee County Executive he gave back some of his pay (true) and that he could choose to do the same as governor (true). But that’s not what the party said.
-
The Democrats called upon Walker to "return his $7,300 raise." Their statement continued: "As pay remains the same for Corrections Officers, Licensed Practical Nurses, Social Workers and Facilities Maintenance Employees, Scott Walker's salary increases by more than $7,331."
-
So let’s bring this one home. Again.
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The state Democrats’ news release states that the governor "is set to make $143,000," and says Walker "thinks he deserves a $7,300 raise," and calls upon the governor to "return his $7,300 raise." The release states that Walker’s "salary increases by more than $7,331."
-
That’s wrong, wrong and still wrong.
-
The pay for Walker -- or whoever succeeded Doyle as governor in January 2011 -- was long ago established. It’s one amount -- $144,423 -- and it can’t change. Walker can’t give himself a pay raise. It’s right there in the state Constitution.
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If it burns you, I suggest you go protest in front of Jim Doyle's house.

"If those numbers hold true, Rock County produced more than 4,000 signatures in the first two weeks"
-
That's all?? There's a lot more morons in Janesville alone than that.

Just remember what all these libs are telling us.
If you help us recall Walker we will jack up your property taxes. Guaranteed!

And I may be wrong but did he not give himself a raise? Must have to buy alot more brown bags! It's hard work giving his bosses tax breaks!

Facts are Walker increased spending did he not?

Oh my your head is so far up there!! MANY CAN'T retire. When you loose your retirement ( member the stock market crash? DUAH) you HAVE to keep working. Or do you personaly know what people have in the retirement accounts. Go back under your rock!

wiggle - post us some actual facts to back up your claims. thank you in advance.

and if your so 'fedup' why do you support someone pi**in away your money?

I see all the pathetic posts about where are the jobs. Maybe you liberals should force all the double dipping chronies in this state to stay retired and allow some of our younger unemployed citizens fill those positions. Talk about greedy hipocrital public employees bilking the taxpayers for all they can get.

Hey FEDUP-
Collective bargaining is not the only reason so many want to recall Walker. Pull your head out of the sand so you can see what the real issues are.
1) increased fees/taxes on the 99%
2) taxe breakes for his buddies/masters
3) increased wasted tax payer money
4) increased spending - what happened to 'live with in our means"?
5) No new jobs = one of the highest unemployment rates in America

zuessmom - or nicksmom or who ever you are. It is just about the unions and their last ditch effort to try and regain the power hold they had on all of us. It is so sad that our state has so many short minded people that refuse to see the real facts.

poorrichard - they call you names because that is what the union goons tell all their poster puppets to do. My guess is that there are a few posters on here that have several handles and are getting paid to bounce back and forth and try to bully all of us that don't support their dribble. Bully, bully by bullies.

Man - it is going to be impossible to get a motel room in this state for ah let's say the next 28 days or so.

bignik-I had to laugh when you said your union brothers frown on that- I remember the union shop I worked at (and was a steward for 2 years) my union brothers complained about the union almost as much as they did about the company. I remember one meeting we had with the big guns from the union when they were trying the ram a contract down our throats we didn't want one of the old dog maint. guys asked how much he made-He said $50,000 and he was under paid for what he did for us-this was 1972 and I were making $2.72 an hour as a set-up man. Wonder what those guys are raking in today of your money.

540,000 signatures = 200,000 votes

bignik-Sorry I should of known that was liberal compliment.

poorrichard......at anytime did i call you a name? dont think so...my union brothers frown on that!

Good link, RAF.
.
Watch this one for the dangers of unabated littering.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjKF7aQth...

JCK_ Thanks for the link which says it ALL!

Who do you want to run the state government: the people or the Unions?
-
Don't you mean corporations or the unions? Or are we still turning a blind eye to what is actually going on in the world today?

It is NOT just about the Unions! Wake up!!!

usaret- Collective bargaining is not the only reason so many want to recall Walker. Pull your head out of the sand so you can see what the real issues are.
1) increased fees/taxes on the 99%
2) taxe breakes for his buddies/masters
3) increased wasted tax payer money
4) increased spending - what happened to 'live with in our means"?
5) No new jobs = one of the highest unemployment rates in America

My wife is a retired state worker-I'm happy for what she gets-she earned it as do all the other state employees and teachers (she worked at a school). The benefits they earned will not taken away-that's a union scare tactic. I'm not a hater and don't deserved to be called one. Why do liberals always turn to name calling and posts like bignik? What does that add to any discussion?
I should have stuck with my original comment of why bother.

If people are signing the petition, and there is no shortage of people that are not fond of the Gov., then the process works.
Here's a summation of Walker's 8 years as County Executive:
"Milwaukee County government is in such dire financial shape that state lawmakers should push through legislation that would allow it and other local governments to file for bankruptcy."
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquart...
--------
Democratic processes include more than just voting.

The only reason for the recall is so that the Unions can get back in the taxpayers wallets. Other then that, they offer nothing for a replacement of GOVERNOR WALKER. Who do you want to run the state government: the people or the Unions?

It does not matter how many times you sign the recall petition as you still can only vote once at election time. All multiple signatures do is skew the numbers, election totals will show the recall fraud.

MCD. You think just one political "party" is afraid of the OWS fiasco?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/20...

cover picture says it all. 3 senior citizens and a union dude (notice hands in pockets doing nothing.)

Where is support for the recall coming from?

http://www.thenation.com/blog/164831/wis...

vatoloco, well said.

"And in their "retirement" they have better benefits and income than many people still working."
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Without knowing it, pr has has stated the reason for so much hatred of teachers and other public workers; jealousy. pr and the other haters (especially the private sector non-union folks) are jealous that some people have (at least had) a better benefit package than themselves. Because they aren't part of a union that could bargain collectively for these things, they have had to bend over and take it whenever their employers wanted to short them on compensation. Their idea of being able to negotiatite their own great pay and bennies on thier own merits hasn't worked out. Their wages are being held down by globalization and free trade agreements and they have been left to thier own devices, which means low wages and little or no benefits.
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Never mind that for years public workers have been making lesss money every year, with the economy in the tank and private corporations busting up unions those public workers suddenly became the "haves" in our society and the haters want them taken down a notch, especially as they get older and are realizing that retirement for them will be delayed or not happen at all.
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Now I've never been a fan of the early retirement concept for public workers; it seems wasteful to have people retiring in thier mid 50s when they have a lot of years left to offer society. Some do go on to do volunteer work, etc., but most just go on vacation. I understand why it happens; it's cheaper to let the older workers go and hire younger ones.
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Congrats richard, you nailed it without knowing it. Even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while.

poorrichard...........just a personal question........

What gene pool did you come from? I sure hope I am not from the same!

You're right, they chose to retire rather than lose the retirement benefits that they worked for. As for saving teacher jobs, he can keep quoting that until he's blue in the face, it doesn't make it true.

http://w/ww.politifact.com/wisconsin

I have no problem with teachers paying a portion of insurance or pension and none of the teachers I know mind either. What they do mind is having their rights stripped away and watching their students suffer. Increased class sizes, programs being cut, supply budgets being slashed. We've sold our kids out for a political power grab... sad.

poorrichard - I'm guessing you are completely unable to verify the claims in your last post.
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Thousands of jobs saved? Most layoffs in districts with rushed through contracts (does that include J-ville)?
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If you honestly believe all those teachers retired just because they didn't want to pay into WRS for a year or two or 5, you really don't understand the issue.

Rs are scared of voters.
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"I'm so scared of this anti-Wall Street effort. I'm frightened to death," said Frank Luntz, a Republican strategist and one of the nation's foremost experts on crafting the perfect political message. "They're having an impact on what the American people think of capitalism."
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http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/repub...

lilbit-Your'e right-they still have jobs. Thousands of teachers jobs were saved by Walker. Where were most of the layoffs? Districts that rushed thru new contracts with the "old' rules ,there's where. Oh by the way, those teachers I know have stopped paying union dues.
And nobody was forced to retire-that is so much bull-they CHOSE to-they didn't want pay into their OWN insurance and pensions so they quit. And in their "retirement" they have better benefits and income than many people still working.

Nomoreres

I am trying very hard to look at things from the middle and avoid extremism.

I am guilty of being extreme just like many others. We cloud our purpose by not finding middle ground. We must find good in every issue. Some issues are challenging I know, but tearing each other to shreds isn't very productive. That's why I try to use humor sometimes.

Let's get rid of America's biggest job loser, Scott Walker! RECALL WALKER!

nomoreres: Ditto!

From the article: "Organizers have to tread carefully with some who want to recall Walker but who don’t want to be identified with unions or the Democratic Party, Creekmore said.

“I think what is most interesting is that it is not a political issue anymore. It is a social/economic issue” for some people, Holly said."
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Bingo. There are many people I know, that support the recall and would change their vote, that are neither union members or democrats. If the Dems can find a viable candidate, Walker won't survive the recall. If they don't, he has a chance.

johnnyreb6977....... you seem to stutter a lot.....".I told you before that I'm done bantering with you"........" I told you before that I'm done bantering with you"......... "I told you before that I'm done bantering with you".
Make your mind up johnny. You are like Walker he thinks losing 9000+ job (just in Oct) is actually creating jobs.
Maybe you could explain before you stop your so called bantering, what does he mean?

How truly sad that the vast majority of posters on these blogs seem more intent on taking shots at one another than to unite for a better city, state and country. We criticize the behavior of Congress and the legislature while we mimic their very behaviors. Wouldn't it be nice to rid ourselves of all these politicians and our own biased stubbornness believing that only one side could possibly have any of the correct answers? However, that would require us to look at things from another perspective. We don't seem able to do that.

If you didn't vote in the election that put him in office, you have no business having your signature counted on a recall petition. If you didn't vote in that election, you have no voice at all.

mouse: Why is my question silly? It is a legitimate question that if the role was reversed you liberals would be asking. As for the rest of your post. I told you before that I'm done bantering with you. I refuse to lower myself to your level. At least when I post something it is with thought and intelligence, unlike some others without mentioning any screen names.

Only benefit of recalling Walker is being able to squeeze him on the presidental ballet next year

300,000 signatures, many fraudulent. Have personally seen the video of the jerk in Milwaukee sitting at a convenience store making photo copies of "his" recall petition to send in.. Laughing as he stated "I will have 30,000 signatures when I am done here". uh...
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Then there is Mrs. Creekmore, anti education, anti american through and through. Sure there have been a few bad actions by those passing you, but those of us who are real Americans will let you have your free speech without impeding it, unlike the left wing zombies who interrupted Walker during the Special Olympics presentation. There is no class from these recall nut jobs!
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Creekmore stated "Volunteers on average are older and liberal, Creekmore said, but there’s a sprinkling of conservatives and independents. Viv, I guess there is no law against saying whatever you want to the press is there. You can say I am a liberal dem who supports Walker.
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There is SO MUCH Fraud, you might get the "signatures" but you cant get a vote, because voter ID will prevent the thousands upon thousands of repeaters that you will get on signatures.

Walker will prevail!

poorrichard...I'm just guessing that the teachers you spoke of who didn't think it was as bad as they had thought it would be, still have jobs. The ones who were laid off, let go or forced into retirement might have a different opinion.

RETAIN WALKER!

oldvet-Love it.

Wow, Where to start-
Fear-No I haven't forgot but I talking about THIS recall and sorry I can't comment on the court cases because I know nothing about them.
Wiggle- Except for the collective bargaining eveything you said is exactly correct for Obama. Who's head is really in the sand?
Zoom-No I didn't forget-I was talking about this recall.
MooShoo-The Dems invented dirtys tricks and are masters at it. I don't understand this class warfare B.S. He has saved the jobs of thousands of teachers and state workers who are middle class. So now they're paying some on the their OWN insurance and pensions-So what? They still have their jobs. Look to Illinos-is that what you want us to become? If you want class warfare look to Obama, he's the real pro.
Poobah-I could'nt agree more.
Mouse-What happened to you? You're posts are becoming more and more incoherent. Sad.

so what happens if you sign more then one recall list just woundering? liberals a bunch of cry babys

The best thing for those in office to remember is do not be blind to the party REp. Or DEm.

I think a lot of those that voted for walker will not do so next time

????? If Walker wins the recall by the same percentage that he won the election will that satisfy all the people that are trying to get him out? Dont just say he won't win, because there are alot of peaple outside of Janesville and Madison that are pleased as punch with him.

his

walker & he GOONS all need to be recalled

Ballrude wrote: "Russ Feingold could and would be the BEST governor that Wisconsin could ever hope for."

And IF my Aunt had testicles, she could and would be my Uncle.

Sign early and sign often.

This recall will take a long time. It will be tied up in court forever. The Dems and their sign as many times as you want policies are going to cause this. With the computer age in full swing all the Repubs have to do is enter the names in a search data base. When the dust settles we will see. Walker won only by a small margine in the first place. As an indepented I think the recall rules are in need of a fix!!!! If you go by the recall walker peoples rule Obama should have been out last year.

If getting on this bandwagon is so successful, why is it so hard to get volunteers to get signatures? I would think they would be lined up ten feet deep.

"Let's not forget who actually started the call for recalls first in Wisconsin. Yes, it was the republicans..."
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LOL. Not even a year and the left fringe is re-telling history to fit their idea of what they "think" happened. The website for recallscottwalker was created the same day of his election to the Gov seat.

REGISTRY WHOIS FOR RECALLSCOTTWALKER.COM
Domain Name: recallscottwalker.com
Expiration Date: 2013-11-02
Creation Date: 2010-11-02
Last Update Date: 2011-08-09

Russ Feingold could and would be the BEST governor that Wisconsin could ever hope for. The man knows Wisconsin better than any other politician I have ever met. He honestly cares about the concerns of the states citizens. ron johnson who? There is a reason why our senator johnson never makes the news, he does everything in secret. Time for real change in our great state. There is no time to wait.

But in the meantime, if Walker is voted out, what is your next step?
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Is that a serious question?

Believe me, the recall effort is a union thing. That is what started the firestorm. Many of us in Wisconsin want to keep Walker in office. Lets have a recall vote. But in the meantime, if Walker is voted out, what is your next step? Or will it be chaos for a couple of years?

All the elderly that think unions are the answer are the entitled ones that thrived under unions and Doyle and the likes.

GO WALKER!

Let's not forget who actually started the call for recalls first in Wisconsin. Yes, it was the republicans who started them first against several of the 14 courageous senators. Only in response did Democrats start there own against republicans afterwards. We have Republicans to thank, but we'll finish it.

I for one am sick of paying for other peoples things that they think they deserve....
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Do you feel the same way about giving extra breaks to rich people who have no need for them?

scooter himself called the recall process "democracy in action".
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I don't think railroadracy is a word. You'll never get away with that one playing scrabble:)

I for one know two signatures who should not even be on those petitions, makes you how many others are on there as well. Example sitting at one of the local taverns for lunch, the person with me signs it and I was like you didn't even live in Wisconsin til a month ago so how do you feel you have the right to sign it. The other well that was the guy next to me who informed me he didn't even vote. Really but yet you feel you have the right to sign a petition!!!! Walker is just what we need and I will vote for him again if it comes to this. I for one am sick of paying for other peoples things that they think they deserve....

This is a perfect example of democracy. He was voted it, showed his true colors, now people want him out. It's perfectly legal, and the only people being childish about it are the ones kicking and screaming about how nobody should be able to change their minds ever.

All who support the recall should really be ashamed of themselves. This is not democracy at work this is railroadracy. You have all decided after you voted Walker in to office, that you are not happy with every choice that he has made so you want him out. If anyone disagrees with your opinion you automatically think we are ignorant or do not care or it does not affect us personally. Its all childish behavior your wanting Walker out because he is not playing fair in your little world, wake up people its a big world its not all about you!!!

Scrot, tell us how is that 250,000 job creation promise working out for you?

Because the path we're heading down now is looking so bright ThirdEye?

JanesvilleCAN,9:24 pm
Quote "A well informed populace that is content to only care for the greater good will vote the power hungry hard right corporate puppets OUT."End Quote
From CPUSA.com
Quote"Socialism offers the best environment for democracy to fully flourish because it sharply limits the power of corporations to dominate politics and the economy. Socialism's democratic potential can only be realized, however, if broad sections of the people are wholeheartedly engaged in every aspect of society's decision-making processes." End Quote

Did you know that historically you won't be part of the "greater good" nor will you be part of the "broad sections of people". Under the socialism you support you will just be equally poor.

bub-bye scooter!

Funny how Walker support the recall process because that's how he became Milwaukee County Executive, but when the shoe is on the other foot, now, he's against it.

Walker went to far on the wrong things. This recall will happen.

poorrichard said, "I was gonna comment but why bother-It's just continuous BS by sore losers."
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I'm happy you changed your mind! You know what they say about politicians, Richard? Half of their reputation is ruined by lies and the other half is ruined by the truth.

Walker is a symptom of what is wrong with this country. A shift towards uninformed, selfish people wanting to control everyone else. A well informed populace that is content to only care for the greater good will vote the power hungry hard right corporate puppets OUT. Walker is on his way out. Newer technology is disseminating information faster. Information is power. Power to the people.

poorrichard....... better get your spaceship or Ark ready..... not sure what planet you line on?????
You know whats funny and tilts to the right....... a plane full of Republicans going to a Koch convention, to get there new operation manuals.

A recall is democracy in action just like an election. Sorry if you don't like that but truth is truth. RECALL WALKER !!!

People can sign the recall as many times as they want, it will only count once. .

Walker supporters would do well to mind their Ps and Qa during this recall - any negative acts only fire up those opposed. Like the jerk who stole my little "recall walker" sign in my yard. I bought three larger ones and rigged them with lights tht are on from dusk till dawn.

Way to support the cause!

nemesis, ONCE each. Why? Its's the legal and ethical to make the change that is necessary. No worries. Walker will be walking...likely with his head hung low and wondering why no one likes him. bully.

I wonder how many times Vivian has signed the petition - or - how many times her co-worker volunteers signed hers?

Horse puckey Richard, the Republican dirty bag of tricks has been in full swing. Fake candidates, attempting to make the recall elections follow the Republican jerrymandered districts, and recall attempts against State Senate Democrats that FAILED. Scott Walker chose the path he is on when he declared class war. Good riddance to putrid career politican Scott Walker.

poorichard wrote: "The Republicans are not out trying to recall anybody."

Did you forget about the last round of state legislature recalls?

Hey Dick - Collective bargaining is not the only reason so many want to recall Walker. Pull your head out of the sand so you can see what the real issues are.
1) increased fees/taxes on the 99%
2) taxe breakes for his buddies/masters
3) increased wasted tax payer money
4) increased spending - what happened to 'live with in our means"?
5) No new jobs = one of the highest unemployment rates in America
Do you even know when your being led around by your ......

poor richard- except Dan Kapanke, and Randy Hopper. I also believe that all 3 Dems facing recall survived, so If you are scoring at home(I know you are) That's 9 Recall elections Democrats 5 Republicants 4 with at least 3 more recalls coming. The fact that they are running to the courts to change the rules that they couldn't change through legislation. I think that some are very , VERY afraid. Otherwise why the lawsuits? I thought repubs hated those? I guess only when they feel their power threatened.
Remember when they hammered the dems by going to court over the open meetings law? What ever happened to "Don't legislate from the bench"? I guess that only means when you have an axe to grind right? The very same folks that hated the Mariann Sumi Ruling and said the court shouldn't get in the way of legislation, are now filing lawsuits. So now if you don't get the votes it's okay? Makes me LOL!!

MooShoo-Could you please make sense when you post? I asked a simple question. Who lost?
The Republicans are not out trying to recall
anybody. So are Democrats sore losers? Yes.
genrene-Thank you- Alot of teachers (and I know more than a few) are saying this is not as bad as they were led to believe.

"If I could sign the petition 540,000 times I would!"

Another fine example of the integrity of the Anti Walker group.

Poorrichard: another sore loser comment from the poor sore Dick.

IF walker is any good he will win on the recall

mouse-Who lost? All I see are Democrats being voted out.

A big "Thank You" to all the volunteers! If I could sign the petition 540,000 times I would! As my mother used to say "Good ridance to bad Rubbish"

Democracy in action - so says scooter.

Use their efforts as a example.
Join a Janesville Facebook page, and use change.org for online petitions to provide a modern approach to speaking to the City Council in a group with identifiable concerned residents.
Anonymous complaining on the Gazette page is not taken serious

I see the whiners are out in force here, but the hard core regular righties are no where to be read....hmmmmm. And coyote; pray tell, what is a phycologist? Recall Walker!!

Run with the herd people! Give me a slip to sign i will put it to use I just ran out of T.P.

poorrichard: Agreed. My aunt is a teacher in Madison. Although things didn't go the way she wanted them to go, she is ashamed of all her co-workers who are only thinking of the recall and their wages and not what really matters.

johnnyreb6977...... HOW MANY??????
Round and round.... johnnyreb6977 goes, where he stops nobody knows
How many women did Herman Cain go with since being married???
Just another silly question to add to yours!

Anti_Clockwise:
http://www.math.harvard.edu/archive/21b_...
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That is a link to the problem on the chalk board in the movie Good Will Hunting. I can post irrelevant links too.
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You aren't using this properly...my rough estimate was based on the number of signatures through 1/5 of the allotted time.

Can I sign a petition more than once? I've been call a lot of names in my life

poorrichard...... yes why bother with continuous BS, sore loser?

Walker never did carry Rock County in the last election. Tom Barrett 52.52% to Walker 45.60%
Regardless of how this turns out, 2013 another recall by what ever political party is in the minority. What started out as a check & balance to turn out a dirty politician, is now a political power play for the minority voted out of office.

Volunteers - you ROCK!!

Going to look for a petition to sign this week. Will not trust signing anything someone brings to me. I expect a fair share of signatures being collected only to be thrown away. Dirty tactics (strategy they say will be running rampant! Make sure what you sign is real and secure!!!

GOOD BYE walker

Johnny, I just have to say it's almost like taking a punch and then having them hand you an ice pack... huh?

Johnnyreb – Great point; likely many are duplicates. However, at this rate there will be 1.5 million signatures at the end of 60 days. I’ll assume that at least 1/3 of them are legit. There will be enough signatures regardless of the fact that there are duplicates, fake names, out-of-staters, and those lost by republicans extremists tearing up valid signatures.
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I think that there will be more than enough valid signatures to warrant a recall.

Let's sign a petition to bring GM back to Janesville.

I was gonna comment but why bother-It's just continuous BS by sore losers. Over and over and over.

I guess elections don't count. What a waste and time and money. These people should be ashamed of themselves.

What are you 'saving our state' from badger2?

Out of those 300,000 or so signatures, how many of them are double or triple signatures???????

You truely got to love our American freedoms and democracy at work!.....Wisconsin has some of the most difficult recall laws in the U.S. and it is uplifting to see the citizens grassroot efforts to save our State!......On Wisconsin!

@Anti-Clockwise; tha, your link says it all, just another phycologist who thinks they they know better than anyone what is best for you. Go Nanny state. CRAP!

Well, if the numbers hold true, it won't be too much longer before these fabulous volunteers have helped us to plant the seeds to oust this control freak governor of ours. Stand up Wisconsin for the fairness and support of our less fortunate right here in our own backyards.

The volunteer that we got at our house was a kind, 70-something gentleman that was dedicating his time to this great cause. When we opened the door he greeted us with a smile, politely asked if we'd like to sign the petition, and when we agreed, he stepped in and chatted with us about the state of the city, economy and we giggled a bit about the notion that some think this is all about the "union" issue. After signing I thanked him for bringing the petition to us, so we didn't have to seek it out (though I would have eventually), and he simply smiled and said, "Well we've gotta do SOMETHING." And off he went to the next house.

God Bless these volunteers, many of them older than me, that are putting in long hours by foot, all to help the state's people in need. Thank you Scott Walker for giving us something to unite for, after all!

http://www.channel3000.com/education/298...