Back to the issue at hand: Romney's beliefs matter because he believes bizarre things that are not true. This demonstrates that he is gullible and easily decieved, qualities that we shouldn't want in our President.

And I don't care what you say, Poobah. Zawi Hawass is still a tuchas.

"You say communisim as if it were a bad thing"
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Death by Communism:
China = 73,237,000
Soviet Union = 58,627,000 (doesn't count 1918-1922)
North Korea = 3,163,000
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That's your top three. Need I say more? There is more. Socialism fails wherever it is tried, and people get killed over it. The NSDAP did a pretty good job too.... I don't know why they were so scared of communists. Cut from the same cloth, you know? And don't give me that "communism and socialism are two different things" crap. The difference in lives is negligible.

yeah one the all time best south park episode.. dumb di dumb dumb.. dumb dumb dumb.

Joseph Smith was called a prophet dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb

Lord of robots said, "My family has been here since before the Revolutionary War, that's all."
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By the way, robolord, the degree of freedom of speech also has nothing to do with how long your family has been in America.

Lord of robots said, "My blood has chewed a little more dirt than his, I think, but I don't see you defending that, do I?"
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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I don't see anything in the First Amendment that gives a person greater freedom of speech than others based on military service.

Poobah, one thing I've noticed about socialists is that they are good at twisting words and painting sentences their way. You excel at it.

Oh. Lemme guess... Here comes the part where someone says that they are a Vietnam veteran that was in Special Forces for three tours and was a Sniper, a Ranger, Engineer.........always happens. Probably on Westmoreland's staff, too. Knew him personally, in fact.....

"Myself my father and my
son have and are protecting the rights of fools like you to voice your opinoin. go ahead. your welcome."
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I thank them for their service. He rubbed my nose in his and his family's first. In case you hadn't noticed......My family has been here since before the Revolutionary War, that's all. My blood has chewed a little more dirt than his, I think, but I don't see you defending that, do I? Did you say something about character???

Lord of the robots said, "I have so many relatives dating back to before the revolutionary war that have protected our country, including my immediate family and myself, you can't even bring that up."
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When you told non_grata that, "you can't even bring that up" you just told another veteran that he is unable to speak about his military experience. But, of course, you boast freely about yours. It's always just a matter of time for a person's true character to shine through.

"Many democracies across the world also believe that socialism is the best replacement for corporatism (capitalism gone wild)."
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America wasn't founded as a democracy. It was founded as a Republic. What's that tell you?? Hint: Benjamin Franklin was a lot more intelligent than you are......
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Jerks have been trying to turn us into a democracy since the Civil War, starting with Lincoln when he killed the 10th Ammendment. Here we go....

I have so many relatives dating back to before the revolutionary war that have protected our country, including my immediate family and myself, you can't even bring that up. I've got TWO combat patches from two different wars, and I don't care to make it three. Fix the system, but don't do it with socialism. That's all I'm saying. Socialism sucks, it doesn't work, and it's not what our country was founded upon. If people don't like the way things work here, they are welcome to leave. If they want to change it, I have a problem with that. We are not a European country. There's a reason why there's a statue of liberty. It's not so that we can re-invent ourselves.

"WOW, did I miss some crazy stuff here. RLOT- no offense but you need to stop with the communist this and communist that, it really doesn't work, no matter how many conservative wierdos say that the current Pres and the dummycrats are socialists/communists, its just NOT reality."
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I didn't say that. They don't worry me. People like you do. And you are right. Communism doesn't work. It never has. Well, I take that back. It works if you kill eveyone opposed to it. Socialism is the same. Just ask Adolf Hitler, Perone...Stalin...etc.. Oh, that's right.......

Myself my father and my
son have and are protecting the rights of fools like you to voice your opinoin. go ahead. your welcome.

There is only one option, non grata. I swore an oath to protect it against all enemies, foreign, and domestic. We are not "in between." That's the problem. People are trying to make it "in between." I say they go somewhere where they will be happy if they don't appreciate what my greatx5 grandfathers gave them and trying to make it convenient for themselves. Our country used to work correctly. We have to fix some things. For one, stand by the constitution and quit trying to rewrite it. Socialists have been trying to destroy that for only ONE century. If our system didn't work, you probably wouldn't even be alive now. Think about it.

Hey Retired Air Force not all of what you say about the auto makers going through a normal bancruptcy is true. Had this been allowed to happen the pensions would have been taken over by PBGC at a cost to the taxpayers of over $6 billion dollars (yes billion with a b) forever plus the cost of the unemployment and social costs. I think the taxpayer actually got a deal at $61 billion.

You people are out of your minds. I stated one simple line saying "You say communisim as if it were a bad thing" to gode some simpleton into saying something rediculous and voila, everyone goes berzerk. Communism isn't the boogieman,neither is capitalism. we will always be somewhere in between. Get over yourselves yours is not the only opinion and, hopefully, there will always be many opinions and those willing to voice them.

Does Romney matter ? He managed 4% at today's presidential straw poll at the 2011 Values Voter Summit. Ron Paul, the only candidate who can save the U.S., won it with 37%.

If you want to be a socialist, go to a socialist country and live there. If their intent is to ignore our constitution and make our country into a socialist state, there will be another civil war. It will be very short. There are not as many socialists in this country as the socialists think there are, which is typical of narcissists.

Many democracies across the world also believe that socialism is the best replacement for corporatism (capitalism gone wild).

"We Communists believe that socialism is the very best replacement for a capitalist system that has served its purpose, but no longer meets the needs and requirements of the great majority of our people."

http://www.cpusa.org/socialism-usa-gus-h...

"To condemn free-market capitalism because of anything going on today makes no sense. There is no evidence that capitalism exists today. We are deeply involved in an interventionist-planned economy that allows major benefits to accrue to the politically connected of both political parties. One may condemn the fraud and the current system, but it must be called by its proper names —Keynesian inflationism, interventionism, and corporatism." - Ron Paul
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I love how you take such pride for living in a capitalist society and bash socialism at every chance, when in fact the days of capitalism have been long gone.

"A life free of exploitation, insecurity, poverty; an end to unemployment, hunger and homelessness."

"An end to racism, national oppression, anti-Semitism, all forms of discrimination, prejudice and bigotry. An end to the unequal status of women."

"Renewal and extension of democracy; an end to the rule of corporate America and private ownership of the wealth of our nation. Creation of a truly humane and rationally planned society that will stimulate the fullest flowering of the human personality, creativity and talent."

http://www.cpusa.org/socialism-usa-gus-h...

Hilarious. A protest organizer all but admits he is paying people to protest.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/06/organi...

RAF- To your earlier post. I actually do make concious choices with my dollars.
Example: I needed a new pair of running shoes, got online and found out that the ONLY company that still manufactures some of their shoes here (30%) was New balance. So I went to every store in Janesville till I could sift through all the new balance shoeboxes to find a pair manufactured in America, took me almost 2 hours!:)
I own 2 HONDAS , 1 truck, 1 car. Both Assembled in Ohio. 70% of the parts mad in America, more than any Chevy, Ford , or Chrysler on the market. I own a LOWE boat , made in the Good Ol USA.
I alos make conscious desicions of what products I buy based on their political contributions, right down to the toiletpaper. I believe as a conscious American consumer these things are important. Some see it as nit picking, I see it as voting woith my wallet and supporting workers in THIS country.
Maybe some would call me a Communist, but I could care less about political parties, beliefs, labels, or anything attached with an "ism".
I would also agree that those who buy cheap crap made in The communist republic of China ARE greedy in a sense, and very uneducated manytimes. Also many times have no choice, because their situation only allows the cheap stuff in.

WOW, did I miss some crazy stuff here. RLOT- no offense but you need to stop with the communist this and communist that, it really doesn't work, no matter how many conservative wierdos say that the current Pres and the dummycrats are socialists/communists, its just NOT reality.
Here IS the reality, the USA is no longer a great nation for a great many reasons. To start with our consuming class that creates demand in a supply and demand economy has disappeared. All in the interest of corporate profits. I would submit to you that we are nothing more than a corporate plutocracy, or possibly an oligarchy. Either way, the farthest thing from a communist state as you suggest OVER and OVER with little proof.
My question is why the stupid generalizations? At what point will we as a nation realize we have been sold out by the upper 2% to an ACTUAL communist state that our current Junior Senator is on record as saying is the best place in the world to do business,China. So while RLOT is complaining about a communist state coming home to roost, it appears that our wealthiest have purchased the governemnt that used to be a democracy and sold it to China. Does that make you proud to wrap yourself in the constitution?

I just dont get the whole cheerleading for America, without seeing the many difficulties and realities that we now face because of the ignorance of the population, or what I like to call the Wal-Mart mentality that so many have.
We live in a nation where the NUMBER 1 cause of bankruptcy is health care, yet any attempt at reform is considered communism? No matter how bad the insurance companies hurt so many lillions of Americans, we still use ridiculous labels.

No matter how many millions of jobs are shipped away so the rich can have more, we still use the very same labels. How low will we allow this country to sink, all because we want to label everything, instead of doing whats right for our country? Whats right includes tax cuts for the most fortunate? Whats right includes more free-trade deals, so now we can make things in Columbia, Panama, and Korea, and buy them at Wal Mart? Does that make me a pinko commie RLOT? Maybe make a substantive argument instead of hyperbolic labeling , OVER and OVER.

Does his Mormonism matter? To the tea partiers, his Mormonism is nothing compared to Obama's blackness, and that's why it doesn't matter much at all!

There are traps for you.

RAF,,,, time to come off the rides at the mall now! We have run out of quarters for you, and you need to listen to the qustion.
Does Romney’s Mormonism matter?

There is no Mormon god. End of story.

We should not even be having this conversation. We are Americans, so deal with it.

Gimme. Gimme. Gimme.

We all have greed. Marx was no differentt. He wrote a manifesto, and it was nothing more than a book bitching about the things he wished he'd had that he himself could not attain because of sloth.

And what is class envy, and why does it exist? Ask yourself that question, and then apply it to yourself and your own life. Then answer that question. Why do I envy" Why do I exist? What can other people do for me that I cannot do for myself with effort? Answer those questions, and then talk to me about communism or socialism.

Don't worry, RAF. We all understand perfectly what you just said.

poo I was just informing you there is greed at many levels. It is the class envy part of society that has a single vision of what they think it means and are so short sighted they never lets it go.

Poobah.........meh.

Compassion and love are relative to the caliber of the weapon communists use to shoot those who disagree with them.

So now you're calling poor people who are forced into buying cheaper products greedy. It never ends with you, does it?

greed is also shown by those that buy the cheapest products...oops.

RAF, I'd much rather be a follower on the path of compassion and love for all of mankind than a leader on the path of greed and divisiveness.

You have no idea what you have given away through your own sloth, and yet you want it back and more, at the expense of the rest of us. Maybe you don't deserve it. 10th Ammendment.

10th Ammendment.

And on top of that, the only way that governments change is through war and death. And that is what you want?? I do not. We have a good thing going here, but you don't appreciate it for what it is.

I'm only dealing with reality, Poobah. The only way to enforce a communist sans socialist country is to shoot those who disagree. Tell me that's not so.

"What's funny is Mitt's family were illegal immigrants in Mexico, and he's someone who is an expert in laying off Americans while getting rich."
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And your problem with that is what, animal?? You have the same potential. The problem is that you don't really care for yourself, or your family, and want to blame your sloth on ohters, and make them pay for your lack of responsibility. How fair is that, commie?

poo guess you don't know the difference between ultra wealthy people and publicly owned companies that millions of people own via their own 401k's. Then again the followers of this world are having problems thinking for themselves.

The sanity remark coming from someone who just minutes earlier said, "You can only change the world by shooting at people..."

Funny how you dodge sanity, poobah.

Poobah, go live in Mexico and then bitch about how bad you have it. No. Wait. Then go bitch about how bad Americans have it. Even our poor citizens have it better than any other country in the world. Why is that your mantra? How much money have you given to our American poor? You know, most of them don't even want it. They feel like I do. They don't want the federal government to give them anything. They want to be responsible for their own lives. Why don't you?

RAF, when families live on minimum wage as millions do, they have no choice but to buy cheaper goods. Those families did not import the goods they are buying and they didn't send the jobs overseas either. Ultra-wealthy people did that. It leaves poor families with no choice but to buy foreign (cheaper) goods. Don't blame the poor for this.

There is no choice in a communist system. The people are never taken care of. It doesn't work. People are always in charge, and people are inherently selfish. We can control ourselves, but only if we recognize a rule of law, and stand by it. We did that already, so whey are people trying to change it?? It may not be perfect, but it works.

"The latter gives you hope that no matter what you do, you'll be forgiven for it, and at some point in time, to be determined by other or no one, you'll get to some point where you are happy."
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I forgot to add, that when you don't think like THEY do (religious fanatics), they also will kill you. Seems like communism and religion are bedfellows.
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Doubt that? Just ask anyone like me who has been to the middle east or afghanistan. I've been to both. I don't capitalize either, because I don't acknowledge either as true geographical features. They are both populated by animals.

poobah how much rice and beans bought in this country are from a factory moved to china? The conversation you stepped into was over consumer demand for cheaper goods that has driven companies to lower production costs by some choosing to move factories overseas. If you, as a consumer don't like that, than shop someplace else. By playing the victim claiming there is no choice in our consumer society you indeed need to head to new york to be around other followers to chant in the street and think protesting wall street will do anything about those that go to bed hungry.

When you stop thinking about how guilty you feel about all those who don't feel like you do, Poobah, you'll be better off. You can only change the world by shooting at people, and neither one of us wants to do that even if we have to, do we? I don't. You can feel bad about yourself as much as you want, and feel guilty about your success, but don't base your life on the people who get a couple of cats, then allow them to breed to 80 cats, so we can watch them on T.V. when they animal control agents walk into the filth. There are people out there that are not your fault, and not your problem. They are what they are, and it's THEIR fault. They are responsible. Not you. You don't have to prop up their stupidity or feel guilty about it. They shop at goodwill because it is the life they made. No one is holding them down but themselves.

The two greatest threats to the human race are communism and religion. The former gives you hope that all your wants and needs will be taken care of no matter what you do. You live like an animal. The problem with that is that if you don't think like they do, they kill you. The latter gives you hope that no matter what you do, you'll be forgiven for it, and at some point in time, to be determined by other or no one, you'll get to some point where you are happy. The problem with that is that you are stipped of free thought and you are a slave. The problem with both, is that you have to dodge bullets and bombs to ultimately find out that you are on your own, and you are responsible for what and who you are.
_
When humanity finally determines that it's wants and needs are driven by selfishness and greed, and learns how to deal with that, the world will be at peace.
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That will never happen. Deal with it.

RAF said, "You have a choice to buy goods from any store in your area."
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As I told you in my original post, RAF. You and I are more fortunate than tens of millions of Americans. This isn't about me or you. It's about those less fortunate than us. It's about the people who eat rice and beans because they can't afford ribeye steaks or even hamburger. It's about people who go to Goodwill and buy a pair of shoes for $1 because they can't afford a pair of $25 shoes. It's about the people who don't buy the medications they need because they don't want to go to bed hungry. Quite the choice, isn't it RAF?

Go live in Yemen for a year, then come back and tell me how much fun you had.

Smile, chase kittens. Did you not know that the Royal hunting ground is ALWAYS forbidden???

Lord of the robots. You don't get it. I'm not arguing about the merits or problems of communism with you. So can you save the communist rants for later? If you dread communism so much, why would you support policies that subject tens of millions of Americans to what you yourself describe as one of the characteristics of a communist system? That being no to little consumer choice.

thurty30 your 2 cents is worth just that.

poobah, I did address your failed point, perhaps you missed it.

"poobah yes you are follower. Step away from msnbc and think for yourself. You have a choice to buy goods from any store in your area."

Ehem....I've read Marx AND Engles......it does not work. It's another form of envy, that starts with a P. An excuse for people living like animals because of their own sloth, no disrespect to sloths. They are what they were. They died, too. Communism is no different.

Even religion hasn't killed that many people......but there is still hope....

non_grata, not I. Nor have I suggested America should move to communism. 90% of these people who scream the "C" word couldn't even tell you what communism is. They'd only be able to say, "It's what China and Cuba are." They couldn't tell you what type of a system it is, its history and evolution. Many of these same people are so proud of their failed trickle-down policies that have resulted in horrible income disparity and wealth disparity gaps in America. They need to be reminded, quite frequently, that their beloved policies are, in fact, enslaving people to the wealthy and taking away their choices - consumer and otherwise. They don't realize the very policies they support are resulting in themselves, and others less fortunate than them, living in situations very similar to the systems they so dread. Such irony.

http://www.scottmanning.com/content/comm...
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You say communism like it's a good thing.....

non-grata, tell me about the country where communism worked on your planet......

Poobah, that's their fault for the most part. There is a reason luggage is produced. If it doesn't work where you live.....move. I've lived in nine states due to work. Grandma will still send you greeting cards and money on your birthday. There is NO lack of work in America. And yet, Madison has a heroin problem. Think about it.

By the way, communism is as communism does. Think about it. Be careful what you wish for, and read the U.S. constitution again. If you want a communist country, go there. Don't make my country one of them. I am sworn to defend MY country against all enemies, foreign AND domestic.

RAF....please attempt to not make blank accusations about anyone. It has been known for sometime that Poohah does not watch TV. Please stay on point here, the name calling must end. Just try agreeing to disagree.

Fine, robot lord, so it's a fact and you thereby have perfectly illustrated the point: tens of millions of Americans have as much consumer choice as those living under communism.

You guys say communist like it was a bad thing?

And now, RAF, how about actually addressing the point I brought up in my earlier post today which I will copy here so you don't have to hunt through the communist fear-mongering.
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Consumer choice, RAF? Choice is a privilege only wealthy people fully enjoy. You and I don't have the choice that someone making a million dollars per year has. And even more poignant is the truth that people making minimum wage have drastically fewer choices than you and I have. Don't take for granted that everyone has the freedom of choice you enjoy when buying products and services. And by the way, it's those people chanting in the streets on Wall Street and elsewhere who understand this and are doing something about it. You can too by going to http://www.occupywallstreet.org

It's not a premise, it's a fact. Steve Jobs is the epitome of the American dream. The problem people have with it, is they wish it was them. All you have to do is what he did. Get to it, or be a communist. And by the way, you can't be more liberal or capitalist than Steve Jobs. May he rest in peace.

RetiredAirForce said, "poobah yes you are follower. Step away from msnbc and think for yourself."
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Geez, that's funny. A guy who made a career of following orders in the Air Force calling someone else a follower. I don't watch TV, RAF.

Oh, here comes the "C" word and it's only noon time! Oh lord of the robots, hear me. For the sake of this conversation, let me agree with your premise that communism offers little to no consumer choice. Given the fact that low income Americans have little consumer choice, you have just pointed out that tens of millions of Americans live under a system that provides as much consumer choice as communism. Thank you for helping me to illustrate the need for significant changes in our income disparity and wealth disparity problems in this country.

"Mormonism is crazy in its own way."
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So says GFAN. I say that religion is crazy in it's own way....... It makes people crazy. There is no monster under the bed. The monster is you.

poobah yes you are follower. Step away from msnbc and think for yourself. You have a choice to buy goods from any store in your area.

Let me remind you, Poobah, that in a communist state, you have no choice whatsoever. You do what THEY say. And that's what you want? Or are you just saying that we should all be sad because we are not all millionairs?? I don't have to be one, so what makes you so sad that you are not one? If you set your mind to it, you could do it. Not in China, however.

So, Poobah, you are a communist? So nice of you to admit that.

"His Mormonism matters about as much as Chris Christie's weight."
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What about Kirstie Alley?? At least Chris Christie won't eat you.

The author writes in this article: "The whole 'no religious test for office' idea remains a good one." It just kills me how, now that they are about to have a Mormon candidate, all the right-wingers are saying "religion doesn't matter" and "his religious beliefs shouldn't enter into your decision." What a different tune from all the outrage, fear mongering and consternation that went on about whether Obama might be a Muslim, or what Rev. Wright said. According to the new switch-a-roo Republican doctrine, it shouldn't matter if Obama actually is a Muslim.

Consumer choice, RAF? Choice is a privilege only wealthy people fully enjoy. You and I don't have the choice that someone making a million dollars per year has. And even more poignant is the truth that people making minimum wage have drastically fewer choices than you and I have. Don't take for granted that everyone has the freedom of choice you enjoy when buying products and services. And by the way, it's those people chanting in the streets on Wall Street and elsewhere who understand this and are doing something about it. You can too by going to http://www.occupywallstreet.org

fear you skipped right over the part that is driving the market, the consumer. If you feel things are wrong, as a consumer, consume based on your positions. If people did that, vs chanting in the streets, it would make a difference.

unfortunately in America's drastic race to the bottom in wages , our overall purchasing power has been depleted. Its not the few buut the many that count when it comes to consuming products.
You say that the market is fair? That is VERY questionable at best. Read this story and tell me how driving wages down in China is working out?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may...
To me a fair market means a level playing field, not de-regulating wages and safety standards in order to displace American workers. Unfortunately greed has become the definition of the "fair market", and you would rather have unfettered capitalism than a vibrant middle class.
Let me ask you this if the market were so fair , then why do wages fall when productivity rises? http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/05/i...
Why engage in a race to the bottom to give the fortunate a larger piece oof the pie? In the name of Free, unfettered capitalism? The very system that is now failing? This country's economy will not come back to life until we manufacure here, and pay people decent wages for a blue collar career. We can listen to Obummer talk about "out innovating, and out educating" its all rhetorical garbage. Wage and class desparity are on the rise, until we have a large manufacturing middle(consuming) class again, this nation will be stuck in reverse. It makes no matter what corrupt party is in charge. Why I could really care less whom wins congress or the white house. They all serve the same corporate maters.

Chrysler did:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/busine...

"the government LOAN to the auto industry"
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Assuming it was a loan also assumes it will be paid back...

If the auto makers would have gone through a normal bankruptcy they could have been bought out or restructured and the only cost would have been to the investors; as it should be. The market still had demand for product so somewhere in the country workers would have made up the delta in supply.

The market is pretty fair, if you don't like where the product is made or sold, shop some place else. In the end the consumer is the one driving the business model, if they were not looking for the cheapest product of the same quality the demand to lower production costs wouldn't be so great. In the end those with purchasing power can and do shape what has and will happen.

I would agree in principle RAF, but the government LOAN to the auto industry essentially saved in the neighborhood of 2 million American jobs. That includes suppliers and everything else that goes along with making and shipping and selling automobiles. Anyone that lives in Janesville can attest to the amount of work an industry like that CREATES. Many of those jobs were and are middle class.
Next we proceed to the bank bailouts that disappeared into the pockets of the so-called "job-creators" , to the tune of 40 times more than the government "loaned" (loosely used term) the auto industry.

Raf my problem isnt necessarily with the government picking winners and losers, its with them being bought out by the winners to make laws to ship our manufacturing sector away to third world countries. Now that in itself isntthe problem, its the fact that tied to these trade pacts are the biggest problem, lifting tariffs. So if a company wants to move their T-shirt factory to China, FINE, but then they PAY to bring their crap back here to sell to the consumers here. If it was a fair/level playing field that benefitted the middle class in AMerica I would be fine with globalization, but the fact that the governemnt is essentially bought off by the winners, to make the MAJORITY of the American working class losers, is where the problem exists for me.

fear I don't favor the govt picking winners and losers, bailing out some and not others. In order for capitalism to work people that invest in a business assume risk, bailing them out is a waste of tax payer dollars.

I find that ANY candidate that is overly religious causes me great concern. Why you might ask? Certainly somebody who is Christian and follows the words in the Bible can't be bad; right?

Religion and government should not mix or we could end up with nutjobs as found in the attached: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthrea...

I doubt Romney's biggest hurdle is his Mormon faith in the general election, but his moderate history in getting the nomination. Gallup did an interesting poll earlier this year that found there is about a 15% point disadvantage for a Mormon candidate as opposed to Catholic/Jewish/Baptist candidate. Interesting that atheists are the least electable group now.
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http://www.gallup.com/poll/148100/hesita...
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Willingness to vote for candidates with following characteristics
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Black 94%

Woman 93%

Catholic 92%

Baptist 92%

Jewish 89%

Hispanic 89%

Mormon 76%

Gay/lesbian 67%

Atheist 49%

I would agree with mentor religion should have nothing to do with it, AT ALL.
I would also like to say that the multiple first lady stuff was really funny.:)

RAF, I honestly don't point all the blame to Bush, but you certainly have no problems giving it all to Obummer. ie your youtube posts. Many conservatives refuse to concede that the HUGE majority of job losses in the Obummer presidency came in the first 9 months following Bush, how could that be a direct result of Obummer?
I point to about 3 decades of irresponsible policies going all the way back to Reagan. Clinton is as responsible as anyone. While creating the illusion of balanced budgets, he is signing NAFTA and other trade deals that have been directly responsible for almost 10 million jobs leaving this nation ,, never to return.
I am just not one to point the finger of blame at one person , just because I disagree with them. As most conservatives have done with this president. This current economic situation is a result of decades of bad policy adding up to a derailment of our economy. There is plenty of blame to go around. My contention is that Bush had chances to fix things and refused to do so, continuing to give high level jobs to bank execs and finally as a going away present, scaring congress and the American people into the TARP bailout orchistrated by Hank Paulson(bank exec) his treasury secretary. BTW I am fully aware that you didnt support the Bank bailout. Did you support the "Bush Stimulus" that goes forgotten, when he just mailed out checks to everybody so they would buy flat screen TVs (made in Taiwan)?
I just think people need to do a little more homework when doling out blame to Obama, this is not one party or person failing, its the entire system, IMO.

can we have more than one first lady at a time?

dustyd - take a minute and look at my first post on this. I said a person's faith or lack of faith should not matter. Stalin, MAO, the North Koreans etc are typical of those who rise to power on a creed of atheism. They try to purge all religion and imply they are the only clear headed critical thinkers. It is very relavant to the attitudes expressed by you bloggers who mock religion at every turn and would cast votes based on your bigotry.

His Mormonism matters about as much as Chris Christie's weight.

RichE: if you're so fair minded and inclusive, what do you have against atheism which, by the way, is merely a lack of belief in the supernatural and entirely unrelated to Stalinism or any other political philosophy?

prounion (naturally), dustyd etc would probably be very comfortable with a Stalinist candidate who practiced atheism. Like so many from the left they just don't understand what made America strong. American pluralism has been able to absorb the best from around the world. We are the most fair minded inclusive society that has ever existed - despite Jimmy Carter's malaise and Obama's guns and religion and softness pronouncements. Your attitudes would have ruled out some great Presidents and invited totalitarianism.

There are situations where a person's faith is directly related to their fitness to be the President. For instance, it would not be good to have an evangelically-minded President who believes that we are at the 'end of days', and that person would purposely act to make that end happen. To discriminate against such a person would be justifiable and appropriate.

No.

Really Rich - if he said he believed in Santa Clause would that influence your vote? Magical Jesus, angry Allah, and crazy - gold plated wisdom are all faith based irrational delusions.

Not voting for someone because you think they are deluded is not bigotry, it's common sense.

It is not surprising that Democrats have the highest percentage of bigots who would not vote for Romney because of his religion. Increasingly, the Democratic Party represents those with a bigoted attitude towards Christians, Mormons, Jews etc. Their only exception is Muslims. Somehow Democrats feel it PC to support Muslim's, even those who would discriminate against other groups that are PC to the Democratic Party. In America, a person's faith or lack of faith should never be an issue as long as they pledge to uphold the constitution. I just wish the Democratic Party would understand that simple concept.

@fear: You are correct. A quick search revealed that "more" (not "most") Americans think Obama is Muslim. I am not "painting him as islamic", again, I don't care one way or another. But many people do, and that's the point of this article about Romney.
My take is that politicians, especially those that aspire to national office, are quite capable of compartmentalizing their religious beliefs from their political ambitions.

So fear, no president is responsible for how many more years?

the "relavance of Bush? Ummm maybe the fact that his administration left the economy in ruins, left us fiughting 2 unfunded, unending wars in the middle east?
Anyone that has the nerve to blame the majority of this nations problems on President Obummer, is short-sighted and completely ignorant. This nations economy was shedding jobs at the rate of 750,000 a month the first six months of his presidency, how again was he supposed to stop that? I think he made some hasty comments about the unemployment rate and his stimulus package that have gotten him into trouble, because his administration didn't know how bad things were.
Ialso don't see conservatives harping on the failed Bush stimulus. Mailing out checks to people? Brilliant!!
Aside of 9/11 happening during his presidency, the Katrina debocle, the economic meltdow, and 2 unending , unfunded wars, starting from balanced budgets progressing to record defecits, doubling the nations debt, he wasnt that bad, right?
I could care less if he is still in office, Jesus Christ himself could not have dug our nation out of the holes his administration put us into. I am NO fan of Obummer, but he was doomed to fail no matter what, just like the next 3 presidents will, because NONE of them are willing to solve the fuindamental problems facing the MAJORITY of the people of this once great nation.

What poll Dave, name ONE that shows a majority of Americans that dont believe he is, ONE. Your attempt at painting him as islamic is ridiculous and meant to inject hyperbole, nothing more. If you dont know that he is Christian, then why would you use the Islam label other than to demagogue?
Please Dave show me a poll that states that the majority of Americans believe him to be anything other than christian.'
Yes I am fully aware that JFK wwas our ONLY Catholic President.

fear, is bush still in office? What was that about being relevant...

fear it has as much relevance as a persons skin color or religion does when it comes to being the head of the executive branch of our nation. It is very clear the current holder has failed, even by his own standards...but instead of discussing the relevant issues people are easily distracted with things like what are his favorite color because that matters as much as his religion does.

@fear: Your comment "Yo Dave , that was really dumb political partisan hyperbole on your part. You may HATE Obama, but you know darn well he is a christian, not that it should matter".
I have no idea what Obama's religious beliefs are, nor do I care. Why in the world would you think I "HATE" him??? And no, I don't know darn well or otherwise that he is a "christian", and polls have shown that most Americans do not believe he is.
Do you realize that JFK was a Catholic? My goodness!

little more serious discussion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHB1YCavW...

RAf what does that little clip have to do with the article? Do you have a clip of the Bush administration laying the foundation for generations of recession? Kinda curious if any of the current candidates can dig us out of the hole that they created. Will you hold them as accountable? Doubtful.
Here is another clip about as relavant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aEURwsrU...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfMjbS0oW...

It doesn't to liberals, but does for conservatives....so figure out the rest.

I just thought of a good joke for the idiots, maybe Mitt was born in Kenya?

What's funny is Mitt's family were illegal immigrants in Mexico, and he's someone who is an expert in laying off Americans while getting rich.

Mormonism is crazy in its own way.

testify, dustyd...

Is the story about how mormonism began any crazier than the story of the ten commandments and Moses on the mountain? Faith is all in which story you choose to buy.
Yo Dave , that was really dumb political partisan hyperbole on your part. You may HATE Obama, but you know darn well he is a christian, not that it should matter.

Republicans controling abortion rights..... run by a Mormon President that beleive in Polygamy? Wow!!!!!

Justsome - did you get Max's permission before speaking to GF again? Maybe you can swing back over and pick up where you ran off on the sisters article?

OK, let's start over. Expatiate your belief.

Dusty - totally agree - an athiest president is the only solution to avoiding a person that is rational enough to avoid superstitious nonsense like the 2012 end of the world Mormanism, and of course the christian superstitions/myths that are just as silly.

Yeah, like you just freshened-up things on this site. If you don't like the debate, just avoid it. Take the easy way out.

And, when it comes to saying the same things repeatedly, it's believers who do that. And it's a lot fewer than ten things. Non-believers are able to articulate prolifically in complex ways. Your sense of sameness comes from the stultifying effect of your belief.

Takes a lot of "clear thinking" to repeat the same comments and the same thoughts on the same local message board to the same 10 people for 3+ years.

maxdetail


http://gazettextra.com/news/2011/oct/03/...

Romney's Mormonism matters a lot! Isn't it reasonable to ask about someone who wants to be President of the United States "if he believes these bizarre superstitions, what else might he believe?" If Romney proclaimed that he believes the world will end on October 12, 2014, would that matter? Of course it would, even though there are many in America with similar religious beliefs. Calling it "religion" and "personal" doesn't let the gullible off the hook for believing crazy nonsense, like angels delivering gold tablets to a guy in New York during the mid-1800's. A Presidential candidate's beliefs matter because they provide a strong indicator of his/her propensity to believe in things that aren't true. I don't want the President to believe things that aren't true.

Does the particular brand of delusion matter? Does which particular imaginary sky god matter?

www.godisimaginary.com

Does Obama's Islam matter? (or whatever he is)