Downtown Janesville parking plaza on its last legs
Other business
The Janesville City Council on Monday:
-- Delayed discussion on ways to fund sidewalk until budget time. A citizen committee on sidewalks has suggested the city consider paying for sidewalk it orders installed or repaired. Now, abutting property owners pay the cost. The discussion was delayed because such a decision costs money.
-- Agreed to allow the Rock County Historical Society to serve alcohol on Tallman Restorations grounds without a special permit. The ordinance change would help book gatherings and bring in more revenue, society board members have said.
JANESVILLE — The days of the city's downtown parking plaza appear to be numbered.
Several Janesville City Council members on Monday said they might or might not agree to spend more than $136,000 to extend the life of the structure for another four years.
Others said they might agree to spend the money for a temporary fix, but agreed another four years might be the end of the line for the plaza.
The plaza was built in 1963 and underwent a major expansion in 1965. It has needed significant repair through the years and the most recent repairs should have lasted until at least 2015, said Carl Weber, public works director.
A recent inspection discovered deteriorating girders, and about 90 of the 250 stalls have been closed off. A consultant said the city can expect other girders to begin failing in another four years.
The structure's concrete is up against the "worst, challenging conditions you can have," exposed to the elements from above and below, Weber said.
The DNR has encouraged the city to remove the structure, Weber said. DNR officials have also told the city they would not issue a permit for such a structure if it were built today.
"The bottom line is, these kinds of things don't exist elsewhere," Weber said. "I know the one went away in Beloit in the last decade."
City staff thought it had time to discuss options and create a riverfront development plan with community members until the recent failure, Weber said. Now, staff members are asking for the quick fix to buy time.
More time would allow staff to investigate the best ways to create additional parking nearby, study the correct combination of all-day and hourly parking, secure grants and get resident input on embracing the river, Weber said.
Weber said the river is the city's greatest natural asset and it should be used wisely rather than to meet parking needs.
"I guess what staff is asking is allow us to define the redevelopment goals, plans and objectives, to get input, to create a vision around what this community would like to see along the river, establish consensus and generate a design concept," he said.
Officials should not waste time butting heads with the DNR and other government officials to rebuild the structure when the city could instead make allies and perhaps find some money to get the city's vision accomplished, Weber said.
While grants might be available for riverfront development or for making the river more accessible, no money is available to rebuild such a structure, he said.
City plans as far back as the 1940s show a pedestrian concourse along the river, as well as a pedestrian bridge.
The cost to demolish the plaza could be about $2 million while rebuilding it could cost between $5 and $7 million.
Tearing down the plaza could take about two years, Weber said.
Council members agreed with staff that other parking should be in place by the time the plaza would be torn down.
"Why go to that expense and still have to put up with what could be a business-killing downtime?" Weber said.
Several council members, including Russ Steeber and Sam Liebert, said they would be inclined to repair the plaza for the next four years. However, council President Kathy Voskuil questioned spending that much money for what is essentially a temporary repair.
Voskuil, who said she supports a strategy to "embrace the river," said she'd have to consider the actual bids for repair when they come back to the council.
Aug 16, 2012 at 11:20 a.m.
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daletona- I agree have never driven past the first floor to find a parking spot. The only time I ever had to try to find a spot was during Rock Around the block.
Aug 15, 2012 at 9:19 p.m.
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Sigma...., how could you not know? It's your analogue.
Aug 15, 2012 at 7:27 p.m.
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gazettefan - I dont know, they would likely have to hire a consulting firm to do a study.
Aug 15, 2012 at 1:08 p.m.
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Sigma.., if the city government was like a family, would there be a street with street lights in front of that family's house?
Aug 15, 2012 at 12:45 p.m.
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maybe if its pitched as a combo parking/ice arena/bike path the council will enthusiasticaly spend the money.
Aug 15, 2012 at 12:25 p.m.
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Reason i mention the Milwaukee st bridge is because ive walked over it a few times recently, And its pretty scary looking. The stairs going down behind the main st stores, are falling apart underneath, and the railing being deteriorated... Its like anything, if the outside is showing that much cosmetic wear and deterioration, what does it look like underneath? Looking at the parking ramp from above it looks far better than the bridge. I understand they are built for 2 entirely different purposes, maybe 50% of the bridges integrity is still stronger than the ramp?? I just question why its just left to crumble on top.
Aug 15, 2012 at noon
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Whatever the choices are in the end, there must be adequate handicapped parking stalls in LOGICAL places, including street parking, and violators NEED TO BE TICKETED. My mom used to like the farmer's market, but trying to find any reasonably close parking for someone who needed to use a cane was incredibly hard, and it's not like you can drop someone off in traffic downtown like you could drop them at the door in a parking lot.
Aug 15, 2012 at 10:21 a.m.
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agreeing with sigma.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq-hx73or30
Aug 15, 2012 at 9:26 a.m.
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This is no surprise...Just like the ice arena being behind schedule and OVER budget !! The city always has their own agenda and taxpayers are always the last to be told.
Aug 15, 2012 at 9:01 a.m.
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hdonlybob - The city is so poorly managed if it was a family it would be on welfare living in govt housing....with a cadilac parked in the front yard and worried about decisions like steak or lobster for dinner.
Aug 15, 2012 at 8:37 a.m.
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I can't really say if this parking is needed or not, but I find it amusing that the City may not want to spend ~$136,000 to repair it long enough for a good study, but doesn't bat an eye when spending way more than that when wanting more river or park property....
Then complains about the downtown area becoming a ghost town...Hmmm........
Aug 15, 2012 at 8:36 a.m.
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I agree arose2364 - look what Milwaukee has done with its downtown river walk - I absolutely love walking down there - Janevsille could easily do something like that, just on a smaller scale of course!
Aug 15, 2012 at 8:12 a.m.
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time for the bridge to go...
Aug 15, 2012 at 2:15 a.m.
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Janesville needs to REALLY look at utilizing something that has been there all the while. The river! Why do most buisnesess downtown turn their backs to it? Why is there a parking lot over it? Take it down, And rehab the historical buildings that surround it.
Aug 15, 2012 at 1:45 a.m.
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tikiman1, that's not how contracts work. No contractor could possibly guarantee a structure would survive until a specific date. A contract instead specifies materials and procedures, and if the contractor used the materials and procedures specified in the contract, there is no legal claim to be made.
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The $150K or whatever is chump change compared to what will need to be spent on demolition and replacement. Even a rapid process wouldn't be likely to give us something sooner than the end of 2014. Best to buy some time and begin a reasoned, deliberate process to figure out how the needs of downtown parking are or are to be met.
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Sigma40, be aware that the concrete railings are not structural elements themselves. The structure is the steel frame *inside* the concrete. The fact that some cosmetic crumbling has occurred is not evidence of imminent structural failure. I believe the city inspects all bridges on a two-year schedule, which is basically how the parking plaza problems were found.
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Parking is a very emotional subject for some people, oddly enough. The economics of parking have been extensively studied and people (and local codes) often want far more than is needed except in extreme situations such as Black Friday shopping traffic. It is in fact likely that Janesville's downtown has plenty of parking and that the provision of limited-time spaces needs to be managed better. It will actually create a sense of business to have less parking available and that tends to increase the interest of shoppers. Scarcity, in other words, enhances value. Something for the city to consider.
Aug 14, 2012 at 10:28 p.m.
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Time to start writing those grants boys. I would concur with the position not to spend much more on this thing. 2 Million bucks to demolish seems high. maybe someone would like to buy a used parking ramp.
Aug 14, 2012 at 9:29 p.m.
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Meanwhile the Milwaukee st bridge is crumbling, sections of the railing have completely fallen out because they are so deteriorated. Why no mention of it? It gets moving traffic all day... the parking plaza just sits there.
Aug 14, 2012 at 9:07 p.m.
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Not true Daletona, the upper level of the parking ramp is closed in the winter for census in relation to snow removal and safety concerns.
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Janesville is going to need another parking ramp folks plain and simple. Either the Dodge St. or Milwaukee municipal lots.
Aug 14, 2012 at 9:06 p.m.
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@ tikiman1, that would be concrete structures of janesville.
Aug 14, 2012 at 8:28 p.m.
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I find it funny we need to find more parking when the new ramp has its upper level closed off because it is not needed. I also never seem to have a problem finding a spot to park in it even in the middle of the day.
Aug 14, 2012 at 8:22 p.m.
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Who did the work the last time? If it was supposed to last until 2015, take the contractor to court! Why should they get off scott free for their shoddy work?
Aug 14, 2012 at 6:43 p.m.
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two years to take it down? this must be one brick at a time.
Aug 14, 2012 at 4:32 p.m.
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lol "Several Janesville City Council members on Monday said they might or might not agree to spend more than $136,000 to extend the life of the structure for another four years."
Is this why we picked this council to maybe or maybe not decide on things.
Use that money to take it down NOW and start on a new plan to make it look better down there. Build another ramp. What ever but don't taake money and spend it on something that is broken and cannot be fixed.
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