FACT CHECK: Ryan takes factual shortcuts in speech
Romney selects Ryan
Click here to view a special section on Paul Ryan, selected to be Republican candidate Mitt Romney's running mate in the 2012 presidential campaign.
Laying out the first plans for his party’s presidential ticket, GOP vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan took some factual shortcuts Wednesday night when he attacked President Barack Obama’s policies on Medicare, the economic stimulus and the budget deficit.
Sen. Rob Portman, a former U.S. trade representative, glossed over his own problems when critiquing Obama’s trade dealings with China. A day earlier, the convention’s keynote speaker, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, bucked reality in promising that GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney will lay out for the American people the painful budget cuts it will take to wrestle the government’s debt and deficit woes under control.
And former senator and presidential candidate Rick Santorum stretched the truth in taking Obama to task over his administration supposedly waiving work requirements in the nation’s landmark welfare-to-work law.
A closer look at some of the words spoken at the GOP convention in Tampa, Fla.:
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RYAN: “And the biggest, coldest power play of all in Obamacare came at the expense of the elderly. ... So they just took it all away from Medicare. Seven hundred and sixteen billion dollars, funneled out of Medicare by President Obama.”
THE FACTS: Ryan’s claim ignores the fact that Ryan himself incorporated the same cuts into budgets he steered through the House in the past two years as chairman of its Budget Committee, using the money for deficit reduction. And the cuts do not affect Medicare recipients directly, but rather reduce payments to hospitals, health insurance plans and other service providers.
In addition, Ryan’s own plan to remake Medicare would squeeze the program’s spending even more than the changes Obama made, shifting future retirees into a system in which they would get a fixed payment to shop for coverage among private insurance plans. Critics charge that would expose the elderly to more out-of-pocket costs.
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RYAN: “The stimulus was a case of political patronage, corporate welfare and cronyism at their worst. You, the working men and women of this country, were cut out of the deal.”
THE FACTS: Ryan himself asked for stimulus funds shortly after Congress approved the $800 billion plan, known as the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Ryan’s pleas to federal agencies included letters to Energy Secretary Steven Chu and Labor Secretary Hilda Solis seeking stimulus grant money for two Wisconsin energy conservation companies.
One of them, the nonprofit Wisconsin Energy Conservation Corp., received $20.3 million from the Energy Department to help homes and businesses improve energy efficiency, according to federal records. That company, he said in his letter, would build “sustainable demand for green jobs.” Another eventual recipient, the Energy Center of Wisconsin, received about $365,000.
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RYAN: Said Obama misled people in Ryan’s hometown of Janesville, Wis., by making them think a General Motors plant there threatened with closure could be saved. “A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: ‘I believe that if our government is there to support you ... this plant will be here for another hundred years.’ That’s what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year.”
THE FACTS: The plant halted production in December 2008, weeks before Obama took office and well before he enacted a more robust auto industry bailout that rescued GM and Chrysler and allowed the majority of their plants — though not the Janesville facility — to stay in operation. Ryan himself voted for an auto bailout under President George W. Bush that was designed to help GM, but he was a vocal critic of the one pushed through by Obama that has been widely credited with revitalizing both GM and Chrysler.
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RYAN: Obama “created a bipartisan debt commission. They came back with an urgent report. He thanked them, sent them on their way and then did exactly nothing.”
THE FACTS: It’s true that Obama hasn’t heeded his commission’s recommendations, but Ryan’s not the best one to complain. He was a member of the commission and voted against its final report.
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CHRISTIE: “Mitt Romney will tell us the hard truths we need to hear to end the torrent of debt that is compromising our future and burying our economy. ... Tonight, our duty is to tell the American people the truth. Our problems are big and the solutions will not be painless. We all must share in the sacrifice. Any leader that tells us differently is simply not telling the truth.”
THE FACTS: Romney has made a core promise to cut $500 billion per year from the federal budget by 2016 to bring spending below 20 percent of the U.S. economy, and to balance it entirely by 2020.
His campaign manifesto, however, is almost completely devoid of the “hard truths” Christie promises. In fact, Romney is promising to reverse $716 billion in Medicare savings achieved by Obama over the coming decade and promises big increases in military spending as well, along with extending tax cuts for everyone, including the wealthiest.
The few specifics Romney offers include repealing Obama’s health care law, cutting federal payrolls, weaning Amtrak from subsidies, cutting foreign aid and curbing the Medicaid health care program for the poor and disabled.
But it’ll take a lot more than those steps for Romney to keep his vague promises, which are unrealistic if he’s unwilling to touch Medicare and Social Security in the coming decade. Even the controversial budget plan of his vice presidential nominee, Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., largely endorsed by Romney, leaves Medicare virtually untouched over the next 10 years.
What’s left for Romney to cut is benefit programs other than Medicare and Social Security, which include food stamps, welfare, farm subsidies and retirement benefits for federal workers. The remaining pot of money includes the day-to-day budgets of domestic agencies, which have already borne cuts under last year’s budget deal. There’s also widespread congressional aversion to cutting most of what remains on the chopping block, which includes health research, NASA, transportation, air traffic control, homeland security, education, food inspection, housing and heating subsidies for the poor, food aid for pregnant women, the FBI, grants to local governments, national parks and veterans’ health care.
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PORTMAN: “Take trade with China. China manipulates its currency, giving it an unfair trade advantage. So why doesn’t the president do something about it? I’ll tell you one reason. President Obama could not run up his record trillion-dollar deficits if the Chinese didn’t buy our bonds to finance them. Folks, we are as beholden to China for bonds as we are to the Middle East for oil. This will end under Mitt Romney.”
THE FACTS: Portman is an expert on commerce, having served as President George W. Bush’s trade representative from May 2005 to May 2006. But he didn’t fare particularly well in stemming China’s trade advantage, either.
Under Portman’s watch, the U.S. trade deficit with China soared by 25 percent in 2005, and the next year it climbed more than 15 percent. By contrast, the deficit rose 10 percent over the first three years of Obama’s presidency, according to U.S. government figures.
Both the Bush and Obama administrations have launched unfair trade cases against China at the World Trade Organization, but neither has been able to rebalance the relationship.
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SANTORUM: “This summer (Obama) showed us once again he believes in government handouts and dependency by waiving the work requirement for welfare. Now, I helped write the welfare reform bill. We made a lot crystal clear. No president can waive the work requirement, but as with his refusal to enforce our immigration laws, President Obama rules like he is above the law.”
THE FACTS: The administration did not waive the work requirement. Instead, it invited governors to apply on behalf of their states for waivers of administrative requirements in the 1996 law. Some states have complained those rules tie up caseworkers who could be helping clients directly.
In a July 18 letter to congressional leaders, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said that to be eligible for a waiver, governors must commit that their plans will move at least 20 percent more people from welfare to work. Moreover, states must show clear progress toward the goal within a year, or lose the waiver.
“We will not accept any changes that undercut employment-focused welfare reforms that were signed into law fifteen years ago,” Sebelius wrote.
Ron Haskins, a former senior Republican House aide who helped write the welfare-to-work law, has said “there is merit” to the administration’s proposal and “I don’t see how you can get to the conclusion that the waiver provision undermines welfare reform and it eliminates the work requirement.”
Haskins, now co-director of the Brookings Center on Children and Families, says the administration was wrong to roll out its proposal without first getting Republicans to sign off on it. But he said the idea itself is one both parties should be able to agree on, were it not for the bitter political divisions that rule Washington.
Associated Press writers Tom Raum, Andrew Taylor, Henry C. Jackson and Bradley Klapper contributed to this report.
Sep 5, 2012 at 3:22 p.m.
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FUNNY headline - "Ryan Takes Factual Shortcuts In Speech" Sounds more ike a BIG L_ _.
http://leanforward.msnbc.com/_news/2012/...
Sep 5, 2012 at 6:50 a.m.
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Screw Chuck Norris. Obviously Paul Ryan is more of a man than him. lolololol
Sep 4, 2012 at 8:48 p.m.
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Maybe Paul Ryan was being chased by Oprah, she did a verified marathon in 4:29 lol
Sep 4, 2012 at 8:06 p.m.
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Paul Ryan used to star with the Aquajays, but had to quit when he heard the siren song of driving the Weinermobile, and selling Lunchables.
Sep 4, 2012 at 7:57 p.m.
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Ezoner,
No, actually I'm not wrong. I also watched, and I wasn't the only one:
"...for minority speakers, here’s a handy guide to how the rival networks broke down coverage:
•Mia Love: MNSBC was in commercial; Fox aired Shepard Smith‘s coverage of Hurricane Isaac from New Orleans.
•Brian Sandoval: MSNBC aired hurricane coverage; Fox’s Sean Hannity interviewed Rep. Eric Cantor.
•Ted Cruz: MSNBC cut to panel analysis of the convention; Fox went to commercial and returned with a Scott Walker interview.
•Artur Davis: MSNBC aired panel discussion, mentioned his speech 5 minutes in, but didn’t air it; Fox aired the entirety of the speech.
•Nikki Haley: both MSNBC and Fox News aired the speech.
•Lucé Vela Fortuño: MSNBC aired more roundtable discussion; Fox News cut away to discussion by Bret Baier and Megyn Kelly.
So with the exception of former Rep. Davis, MSNBC did not omit any speeches that Fox News did not also omit."
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/msnbc-falsely...
Sep 4, 2012 at 7:05 p.m.
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Paul Ryan hit a hole in one at the US Open 20 or so years ago.
Sep 4, 2012 at 7:04 p.m.
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Paul Ryan lost to Kip Litton in the Western Wyoming marathon :(
Sep 4, 2012 at 6:44 p.m.
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Paul Ryan likes to hunt. Hopefully he hasn't gotten tips from Cheney.
Sep 4, 2012 at 6:40 p.m.
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Paul Ryan likes catching catfish with his bare hands. He once caught a 130 pond one and threw it back in without weighing it.
Sep 4, 2012 at 6:37 p.m.
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Paul Ryan, according to wiki, has climbed 40 14,000 foot peaks in Colorado. I expect he was bored after climbing Mount Everest without using oxygen tanks.
Sep 4, 2012 at 3:08 p.m.
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http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/09/sin...
Sep 4, 2012 at 2:43 p.m.
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Walter -- you are wrong -- I watched both channels -- while they may have shown excerpts from many speeches, they tended to go to the panel during many of the minority based speeches. I would also agree that this is the only way the that MSNBC and others can spur the racism claims by the left. He conitnues to ignore issues and attempts at denograting as oppsed to talking real issues. He has no solutions, so why would he ever talk issues.
Sep 4, 2012 at 1:05 p.m.
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Fact checking the op ed RAF posted about fact checking.
From the piece:
"and the concerned folks at MSNBC opted to stop covering the speeches whenever a minority took the stage"
The author points this out in an effort to bolster his libelous claim that MSNBC pushes a "GOP is racist" agenda.
The fact is that, aside from one speech, Fox News and MSNBC aired the exact same speeches.
Sep 4, 2012 at 3:34 a.m.
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‘Fact check’ follies And other media miscues
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/ope...
Sep 4, 2012 at 2:21 a.m.
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Walter so sad. The best you can do is deny the fringe focus and bipartisanship? Keep pretending your comparison toward the real war on women, as done by that current dem staffer, and bipartisan legislation is somehow an equivalence. Your remarks reflect how many in your faux party really feels...
Sep 3, 2012 at 3:45 p.m.
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I'm make this short and sweet...
Paul Ryan is to Mitt Romney what Sarah Palin WAS to John McCain....
Enough said!!!
LMAO on the Ryan believers.
Sep 3, 2012 at 2:11 p.m.
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"Walter you wanting to compare the war on women with a terrible act by a staff member of the democratic party..."
RAF,
You might want to take a quick peek back down the page. You made that comparison. I didn't. And again, it is an alleged terrible act. There hasn't been a conviction.
Sep 3, 2012 at 2:06 p.m.
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RAF,
You might be right about the "fringe" focusing on the marathon. Everyone knows that Runners World magazine has long been a leftist propaganda machine. Clearly, running enthusiasts are also dyed in the wool socialists.
Sep 3, 2012 at 1:53 p.m.
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"...for the record that is called bipartisan."
16 Democrats voting aye.
175 Democrats voting no.
For the record, it appears you were using the term "birpartisan" rather loosely.
Sep 3, 2012 at 11:51 a.m.
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"WHY PAUL RYAN THOUGHT HE COULD GET AWAY WITH LYING: 6 THEORIES"
http://current.com/community/93890648_wh...
"PAUL RYAN'S LIES MAKE FOR A QUESTIONABLE VICE PRESIDENT CANDIDATE"
And the story starts like this..."Never in the history of following politics have I encountered a bigger liar and fabricator than Republican Vice Presidential candidate Paul Ryan..."
http://www.daily49er.com/opinion/paul-ry...
Sep 3, 2012 at 8:09 a.m.
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I find it odd that most posters from both sides seem to prefer to "find something similar" about the other side rather to hold their own members accountable. I guess the politicians have us right where they want us. Might we not be better off holding them all accountable rather than saying "your guy is worse than mine"? Just something to think about, now go back to fighting amongst yourselves while both parties laugh at you.
Sep 3, 2012 at 6:18 a.m.
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Mouse don't look at non-left wing sites, I would hate for your bubble to burst.
"Voters blame president most for slow economic recovery" http://thehill.com/polls/239377-the-hill...
Sep 3, 2012 at 5:33 a.m.
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Obama inherited a nightmare from George Bush! My cartoon is MUCH better Than RETIREDhAIRFORCE...lol.
"Majority STILL BLAME Bush And Republicans For Economy"
http://www.cagle.com/2011/09/majority-st...
Also some funny CLINT EASTWOOD -->Empty Chair Political Cartoons here.
http://www.cagle.com/2012/08/clint-eastw...
"BUSH HAS DESTROYED IRAQ & AMERICA"
http://www.creators.com/opinion/paul-cra...
"VOTERS BLAME BUSH NOT OBAMA FOR ECONOMICH DISASTER"
http://www.politicolnews.com/voters-blam...
Sep 3, 2012 at 3:22 a.m.
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http://gazettextra.com/photos/2012/sep/0...
Sep 3, 2012 at 3:19 a.m.
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Walter you wanting to compare the war on women with a terrible act by a staff member of the democratic party with a congressional bill supported by members of both parties...for the record that is called bipartisan.
Anything to ignore the current failed policies and terrible economy under Obama.
Sep 3, 2012 at 3:17 a.m.
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"treasure trove of old dusty material and trot it back out"
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Walter would that be the same treasure trove ignored by the the left fringe? Speaking of old why is the same left fringe, the ones who have ignored all the lies of biden and obama, focused on a marathon from over 2 decades ago? I suspect it has something to do with not wanting to focus on the failed policies and terrible economy of the last 4 years under the current administration.
Sep 3, 2012 at 12:42 a.m.
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Thank you Paul Ryan...Do whatever it takes to help us get the White House back. America and the Democrats have a very short memory...keep stretching the truth and we will own the White House again in January.
Sep 2, 2012 at 8:22 a.m.
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RAF,
Regarding your link to the article on the man accused of sexual assault and your accompanying "war on women" comment: Apparently you live in a world where people are guilty until proven innocent. H.R. 3, Akin's comment, the Republican party platform and scores of other proof of the GOP's ideas and actions toward women are on the record. You post an article about accusations against one man that, if true, prove only that he is a criminal and nothing about the Democratic party.
Sep 2, 2012 at 8:11 a.m.
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RAF,
This is what you've been reduced to? A current VP candidate gets called out on a lie, so you run to your treasure trove of old dusty material and trot it back out like it's something brand new? I realize the 24 hour news cycle is fast paced, but try to keep up.
Sep 2, 2012 at 3:01 a.m.
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The dem party war on women continues...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...
Sep 2, 2012 at 2:30 a.m.
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Obama, LIED again, Misstated Story About Mother’s Health Care
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/201...
Sep 1, 2012 at 6:35 p.m.
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"Republican Paul Ryan now says he didn't run a marathon in less than three hours as he claimed in a nationally broadcast interview.
The vice presidential hopeful acknowledged Saturday he had misstated his marathon time by more than an hour. He released a statement correcting the record after Runner's World magazine found evidence he had completed one marathon, in 1990, and finished in just over four hours.
Ryan told radio host Hugh Hewitt last month he had run a "two hour and fifty-something" marathon. That's a pace of less than 7 minutes per mile for the 26.2 mile course — extremely fast for recreational runners.
Ryan said he should have rounded his marathon time to four hours, not three." [ http://www.startribune.com/local/1682692... ]
That pesky evidence! How do you "round" an actual time of "just over four hours" down to "two hour and fifty-something?" That's some really creative and enthusiastic "rounding," isn't it? The concern with this incident is that it reflects the creative and enthusiastic "rounding" errors in the Ryan/Romney budget proposal.
Sep 1, 2012 at 12:17 a.m.
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thatwaseasy said, "But Obama promised if we supported him, the plant would last another 100 years."
Let's see the quote where Obama said, "If you support me, I promise the plant will last another 100 years." That's not so easy, is it?
Aug 31, 2012 at 11:10 p.m.
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Wislady, I agree with you. However, it was Paul Ryan that brought up GM, you should send him an email and let him know that GM is closed and he and the republican party should move past it.
Aug 31, 2012 at 9:33 p.m.
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Fact checking the AP fact checker:
Ryan's quote from speech:
A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what he said in 2008.
Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight.
He called him Candidate Obama and the plant didn't last another year. But Obama promised if we supported him, the plant would last another 100 years.
We all saw that in the news at the time. Since that fact check is checked incorrectly -
Debt commission? True again - Obama did nothing .
Why even bother to waste time on any others. AP is just another left arm of the White House that is twisting and spinning a round peg to make it fit their square hole.
Aug 31, 2012 at 7:55 p.m.
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What's missing from this comment hysteria is the real facts. The Orion Assembly in Michigan reopened, the Janesville plant stayed closed. Paul Ryan is correct. When Vice-president Biden calls Ryan a liar in the debates, Ryan will take him out. The libs know it's over. They still livin in the past of the 2008 election. We should feel sorry for them.
Aug 31, 2012 at 6:14 p.m.
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916WI,
Setting - an office at GM headquarters on Jan. 20, 2009
GM exec #1: Hey, if we need some more trucks made can we send the order to Janesville?
GM exec #2: Nope
GM exec #1: Why not?
GM exec #2: That plant is closed remember?
GM exec #1: Oh yeah.
OR
It's 11:05 pm and you really want a tasty cold beverage. You pull into a gas station. The sign on the door says they close at 11 pm and the door is locked, but there's people inside doing work. Imagine your shock. You bang on the door and demand satisfaction. The clerk says, "Sorry. We're closed."
"But you're in there doing work and preparing items to be sold at a later date at this very moment which means you must be open", you yell back.
"No. We're not accepting new business until we open for new business again in the future. You see, the term 'closed' comes from the moment that a store or factory or any other business has stopped accepting new business. If they accept new business again after closing, that's called opening. If the business never again accepts news business, that is called a permanent closing."
Aug 31, 2012 at 5:20 p.m.
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"Moving backwards, again."
Well, certainly nothing unusual about that for you.
Aug 31, 2012 at 5:17 p.m.
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Moving backwards, again.
Please try to move past the GM plant, it serves no purpose to belabor the fact that it is CLOSED.
How about worrying about the "57" states that we have.
Aug 31, 2012 at 4:49 p.m.
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Wally.....You're too funny! We've had obvious production and assembly by GM assembly workers in 2009 explained away as "effectively closed", "virtually closed" and now "part of closing procedures". Huh? Assembling of vehicles is now considered a "closing procedure"? That's a new one!
Your analogy holds no water, "When a store closes on their last day, there are still some items to be taken care of after the doors are locked".
If the employees are still fulfilling orders and servicing a customer--as assembling the Isuzu trucks clearly was, why can you not understand that a rational person would consider the business as being open? Your own description alludes to the fact that you do when you mention "closing procedures". Until there is an "ed" at the end of close rather than an "ing", the very definition of the word would lead one to believe that it's open. We all need to move on and let it go. Just come to terms with the fact that your dislike of Ryan overwhelmed your rational thought and common sense on this one.:) Have a good night!
Aug 31, 2012 at 4:24 p.m.
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You call that straight? That was more crooked than the zigzag path a drunken bear leaves.
Aug 31, 2012 at 3:50 p.m.
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Let's get this straight:
Was the plant still open when Candidate Obama visited and made this speech? YES
Did Candidate Obama promise that HIS administration (in addition to healing the planet and receding the tides/powering windmills with unicorn farts etc) would keep the plant open another 100 years? YES.
Did PRESIDENT Obama do this, even though his administration, his party and his BIG LABOR allies ran the company. NO.
It's pretty simple, really. No need to tie yourself in mental knots over it.
Aug 31, 2012 at 2:56 p.m.
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We wonder why our country is such bad shape and yet people are willing to make one of the most important decisions of their lives based on false information.
Aug 31, 2012 at 2:11 p.m.
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The best analysis I have read.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/purple-wis...
Aug 31, 2012 at 1:37 p.m.
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Q: Does ANYONE remember what GM left as a parting gift for Janesville?..A: A massive contaminated ground site.. Good Riddance!
Aug 31, 2012 at 1:30 p.m.
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lyin ryan, enough said
Aug 31, 2012 at 1:21 p.m.
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OMG why are you people still arguing this idiotic and pointless issue?
Aug 31, 2012 at 12:59 p.m.
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916WI,
The Isuzu contract would have been considered nothing more than one of the "closing procedures". The completion of the Isuzu trucks was to coincide with all other "closing procedures". When a store closes on their last day, there are still some items to be taken care of after the doors are locked. In a plant that size, that part of the closing obviously took a while. A plant that is open and operating would be taking and filling new orders from corporate.
Aug 31, 2012 at 12:25 p.m.
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I personally love the comments by Dana Perino regarding the Janesville plant. The former GW Press Secretary thought the plant closing was a positive for the country.
.
Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) claimed during his convention speech Wednesday that President Obama is responsible for the closure of a GM plant in Janesville, Wisconsin. However, as many media outlets have noted, GM announced plans to close the plant in June ’08 — long before Obama was even elected — and it ceased major operations in December of that year.
For proof, just ask one of the more prominent supporters of the Janesville plant shutdown — the George W. Bush Administration. After all, the closure was part of a broader GM restructuring initiative that the then-President supported. White House Press Secretary Dana Perino even praised it as evidence of GM “adapting well:”
The White House called the announcement a sign that the auto giant was “adapting well” to market shifts.
“It’s a sign that Detroit continues to adapt and evolve and address the change in consumer tastes and attitudes. And I think that they’re adapting well,” spokeswoman Dana Perino said.
“And they’ll make these changes, and hopefully be able to pull themselves up out of what has been a rough several years,”
she said. …
In keeping with the rest of the night’s theme of ignoring and whitewashing the Bush Administration’s disastrous record, Ryan failed to mention this inconvenient history.
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Technically the plant was still operating after President Obama took office. However, the typical operations and work taking place at the plant effectively ENDED prior to President Obama being sworn in.
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This is a non-starter for eithe side and more political bickering from both sides. There were so many hypocricies in the speeches from the RNC focusing on this one is a Janesville thing.
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I believe Ryan made many more "misleading" statements, like the one about the GM plant closing as a result of President Obama's policies, than blatant lies.
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Medicare cut, adopted by Republican budgets
Debt commission, Ryan criticizes president from results HE WALKED AWAY FROM
GM plant closed b/c of President's policies - effectively closed before he was president, officially closed 3 months after he was sworn in.
Welfare work requirement, not waived but giving Governor's (LIKE MITT ROMNEY) options like Governor's (LIKE MITT ROMNEY) requested.
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etc...
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People who use Fox for information will defend this crap and then complain if the media actually does its job and calls the republicans out for it.
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Heck, the "we built this" theme was created by a day of Fox News running 40+ segiments fearturing that statement COMPLETELY TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT.
Aug 31, 2012 at 11:55 a.m.
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"916WI, The very last production at the plant was related to the Izuzu medium duty trucks and involved scarcely a handful of employees, hardly a 'line' as you falsely portray."
Good, so we agree that the GM was filling a contract for the production of Izuzu medium duty trucks and they were being assembled by GM employees at the plant into 2009........Based on this fact the plant would be considered______ into 2009......Help me with this one!:)
Aug 31, 2012 at 11:44 a.m.
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Wally.....Surprisingly, you are making yourself out to be so dense! It's an ASSEMBLY plant, regardless of whether or not corporate has orders coming down the pipeline, if there are employees working there ASSEMBLING vehicles, having them rolled out of the doors off of an assembly line and filling current contracts, how can you not see that people would consider the plant open and operating? Maybe I was giving you too much credit??
Aug 31, 2012 at 11:33 a.m.
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Whatever dude. Sometimes you're so intelligent and other times it's like you're writing with crayons. In October of 2008 he sent out a press release regarding the closing of the GM plant in Janesville. In his speech he said it closed on Obama's watch. You don't really need me to connect those dots for you, do you?? Keep in mind, there are only two dots there to connect.
Aug 31, 2012 at 11:13 a.m.
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Kid please point out any lie between what Ryan stated, in his speech, with the press release.
Aug 31, 2012 at 11:12 a.m.
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Gandalf the employees you choose to ignore were working in the "plant" at the time. You might want to look up the meaning of "virtually" closed and closed...might surprise you there is a real difference.
Aug 31, 2012 at 11:10 a.m.
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Nice link RAF. How about Paul Ryans OWN press release from 10/08 declaring regarding of GM's plans to close BY THE END OF THE YEAR.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/30...
Aug 31, 2012 at 11:08 a.m.
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"intending to link the two together"
Oh well, because it was your perception of his "intent" that he lied...regardless of the actual words used. Funny how "back in chains" had no intent 'cause it was a joke....but hey expecting consistency from the left fringe has really been a real expectation they could meet anyway.
Aug 31, 2012 at 10:34 a.m.
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really? we are bitching about when the plant closed and who was president which is completely irrelevant to the doors closing, and GM closing is completely irrelevant to anything at this point. See my earlier rant about partisans and their shallowness, it is currently being displayed.
Aug 31, 2012 at 10:32 a.m.
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916WI,
Filling a last order placed prior to the plant closing date while taking no other future orders is not "open". If you insist on believing that the plant remained open after Obama took office, you must also be very grateful that he was able to keep that titanic of a plant open for as long as he did.
Aug 31, 2012 at 10:26 a.m.
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"And? What "credible" person said he was responsible for it? Pointing out obama's own words is hardly a falsehood unless you live in constant denial."
Why would Paul Ryan mention President Obama and the Janesville GM plant as he did if he wasn't intending to link the two together? The implication was obvious. You can pretend not to see it if you choose.
Aug 31, 2012 at 10:26 a.m.
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"And? What "credible" person said he was responsible for it? Pointing out obama's own words is hardly a falsehood unless you live in constant denial."
Why would Paul Ryan mention President Obama and the Janesville GM plant as he did if he wasn't intending to link the two together? The implication was obvious. You can pretend not to see it if you choose.
Aug 31, 2012 at 10:02 a.m.
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Uh oh, a news story from April of 2009, after Obama was in office, about the plant closing that week....must be another lie :-(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56h1gobtk...
Aug 31, 2012 at 9:57 a.m.
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Wally....If the employees of that store were still servicing customers and filling orders, I would most definitely have called that store "open".......Any other questions?
Aug 31, 2012 at 9:55 a.m.
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concernedwi, excellent analogy you nailed it, thanks
Aug 31, 2012 at 9:32 a.m.
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"was Obama responsible for the closing of the Janesville General Motors plant"
And? What "credible" person said he was responsible for it? Pointing out obama's own words is hardly a falsehood unless you live in constant denial.
Aug 31, 2012 at 9:07 a.m.
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Romney-Ryan: We believe in LYING to America!
Romney’s Lies at Convention:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact...
http://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-romneys...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/st...
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article...
Ryan’s Lies at Convention:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum...
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/U...
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robe...
http://www.thenation.com/blog/169648/the...
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/3...
http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/0...
http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/106730/rya...
http://www.salon.com/2012/08/30/paul_rya...
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/0...
Americans CAN’T TRUST Romney-Ryan!
Romney-Ryan: Lying, distortion, secrets – are our specialty!
Aug 31, 2012 at 9:07 a.m.
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Eagle, I have to agree with you (well not on everything, but the overall statement). Until each party is willing to police themselves and hold themselves to a higher standard than we will continue see these types of politics that won't help anyone. When your party does something you disagree with call them out on it. It reminds me of the parent that is called about their child doing something wrong at school and instead of the parent doing the right thing, they blame the teacher, their little angel wouldn't ever do anything wrong. Politics is not sports, you shouldn't just root for your "team". You should look at each topic, each candidate, and each election interdependently. Don't get your news all from one source. Or from news sources that lean from one side. Do your own research and make up your own mind. Don't just vote for someone because they have a R or D next to their name. How often do you hear someone say that they are voting for their candidate because it's the lesser of two evils. Don't accept that! Ask your party why they haven't chose someone better! But I fear that until we have a true independent 3rd party this will continue.
Aug 31, 2012 at 8:14 a.m.
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If you are slamming the Republicans for doing the same things the Democrats do but supporting Obama and if you are slamming the Democrats for doing the same thing as the GOP does but supporting Mitt Romney, you need a serious reality check. It is blatantly obvious the great majority of voters in this country have their heads in the sand or somewhere else. You can all cry for hope and change or reform or whatever the word of the day is but you continue to vote for the same thing over and over and over again. Then you point fingers at each other with ridiculous shallow talking points which if you gave any thought to are generally the same as your opponents. Actions speak louder than words, Republicans you preach smaller less intrusive government but at what point are going to support candidates that actually walk the walk rather than talk the talk? Democrats you claim we need to be compassionate and open to everyone yet you personally donate less to charity than Republicans, using government money to support your causes is not compassion, it is not freedom, it honestly is stealing and dictating what others money should be used for. You also claim that you support various minority groups, yet you continue to support a party whose actions are of the contrary. The Black community has suffered devastating effects by a cyclical system that traps people and hinders their ability to succeed and it is done under the false guise of 'fairness'. You eat up when a politician panders to select groups by claiming support but shows no actions to support it. Wake up people, we are at critical mass here in many many ways, if the same old way is fine with you, then I have no sympathy for you in 4 years when nothing has changed and the debt is sitting at 25 trillion and you are crying again about how bad things are. I have never gotten to the point of where I think it is time to leave but another 4-8 years of this crap and my bags may be packed. You deserve what you elect. enjoy.
Aug 31, 2012 at 7:58 a.m.
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Instead of splitting hairs, why don't you just ask yourself "was Obama responsible for the closing of the Janesville General Motors plant?" Of course not.
Aug 31, 2012 at 7:45 a.m.
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RAF- That the best you got? Finding the truth hard to deal with? Facts are not spin my friend.
Aug 31, 2012 at 7:02 a.m.
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Noting but spin as the obama supporters ignore the failed economic decisions of the past 4 years.
Aug 31, 2012 at 6:39 a.m.
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916WI,
When a store goes out of business, and a small crew is still inside dismantling, cleaning, perhaps preparing items to ship to another location, and all of this is being done behind closed and locked doors, would you call that store open for business or closed?
Aug 30, 2012 at 8:58 p.m.
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So if we are going off of some of your logic on here about when GM closed...
How many wars are we still fighting then? AFter WWI and WWII we have bases all over the world so does that mean all of those wars are still going on?
I still have supper in my stomach so am I still eating supper?
The GM plant was effectively closed before Obama. If you don't believe that you are probably one of the few that actually think GM is coming back to Janesville. I'll put it in your words, "Uhhh... yup the plant's still there. There's not a big hole in the Earth in that spot so yup I'll be going back to work soon."
Move on, try to find another Republicant lie to spread.
Aug 30, 2012 at 8:07 p.m.
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More republican lies. Is anyone really surprised?
Aug 30, 2012 at 7:36 p.m.
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If you removed the politics from this, I hate to tell you this Wally, but if you have a production line with assembly workers assembling vehicles and having the vehicles roll off that line, any rational person would say that that assembly plant is open until the last vehicle rolled off of that line.......No??
Aug 30, 2012 at 7:09 p.m.
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Ezoner,
It was a factory that had stopped taking orders and was merely filling a last order that it was committed to. That's not an open factory. That is an effectively closed factory. 1200 laid off. Less than a hundred employees to complete the final special Isuzu order. The only plans that GM had for that plant beyond the completion of the last order was to shut it down. That decision was made long before Obama took office. Market demand had changed. Retooling was not financially feasible. If President Obama could have revived that plant as part of the bailout, I'm sure he would have. At that point it would have been considered job creation because it was already closed. Instead he had to settle for saving a million auto workers' jobs. The Janesville plant's story is unfortunate, but it never had anything to do with President Obama. For Paul Ryan to even hint at that is dishonest.
Aug 30, 2012 at 6:56 p.m.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra...
Very good analysis of the speech, and the campaign.
Aug 30, 2012 at 6:54 p.m.
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Sally Kahn of Fox News found lies that I missed and ommissions in Ryan's speech. Perhaps the democrats need to fall back on Adali Stevenson's challenge to the Republican, "If you stop lying about us, we'll stop telling the truth about you". Both candidates claim to be very religious so shouldn't they be a little careful about the falsehoods they spout.
Aug 30, 2012 at 6:38 p.m.
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Good comment by BROTHERKOCH - If I can Redo a little of your wording to say - we should have learned from Nixon / Watergate. But as John Dean said...."Walker is more Nixonian than Nixon" - probably should also include RYAN, Duh Fitz boys, & all the others connected to Scott Walker in the Re-FIB-lican Party.
http://uppitywis.org/quickhit/john-dean-...
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/ma...
Aug 30, 2012 at 4:47 p.m.
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Ezoner, I'd quit splitting hairs and trying to be lawyerly.
I mean, I do appreciate the attempted patriotism, but when caught in a lie, it's best to quit lying and nuancing your way out of it. It only makes it worse. We learned that from Nixon.
Get back on our GOP websites and Fox, and surely you can find a better talking point to further the cause of Patriotism.
Aug 30, 2012 at 4:45 p.m.
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Oh I forgot, Lyin' Ryan!
Aug 30, 2012 at 4:44 p.m.
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Liar liar pants on fire. By the way, who in heck is that young and uses brill cream in his hair? Besides Eddie Munster.
Aug 30, 2012 at 4:41 p.m.
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Walter -- you can schedule anything you want -- scheduled to close and actual close are two different things. You can schedule an activity and due to outside influences, market forces, changes in demand or circumstances, the plan can change. In reality there were rumors even AFTER the real close date in April 2009. But the policies (energy policies) driven by Obama and the left made certain that the plant in Janesville would likely never open again. The fact that you are unwilling to accept that is boggling. All you need to do is read that article and the many articles published in the Gazette over that time frame.
Now if you want to argue over specific claims about whether the plant could have remained open or additional builds could have been completed (say the economy recovered very quickly) then fine. But the reality is -- the plant reamained open well into 2009.
Aug 30, 2012 at 4:21 p.m.
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Your own reporting shows that you're wrong about the closing of the GM plant. It closed in April of 2009. http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2009/apr...
Aug 30, 2012 at 4:18 p.m.
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Another Associated Press story on Ryan's lies last night:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/U...
Aug 30, 2012 at 4:07 p.m.
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Ha ha. Glad to see that there are a few stepping up to defend Republican falsehoods. Patriotic acts of valor.
Aug 30, 2012 at 4:02 p.m.
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"But he said the idea itself is one both parties should be able to agree on, were it not for the bitter political divisions that rule Washington."
And this, especially the last half, says it all...
Before politicians decide to endorse or condemn an idea, the first question is, "Who suggested it?"
Aug 30, 2012 at 3:59 p.m.
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If there were still GM employees at the plant producing vehicles contracted by GM well into 2009, how one can say the plant was "effectively" shut down in 2008 is beyond me. That would be like saying that an open store is "effectively closed" when running a skeleton crew at midnight. The plant is either producing a product or it's not producing a product......and this one was clearly producing a product into 2009.......
Aug 30, 2012 at 3:30 p.m.
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Ezoner, freedomfighter, no
The plant was scheduled for closing with no plans to reopen before Obama took office. The fewer than 100 hundred people that stayed on to fill the Isuzu order did not amount to even the remotest possibility that GM had any plans to keep it open. It was effectively shut down when the last vehicle rolled off the full assembly line on 12/23/08.
http://gazettextra.com/photos/galleries/...
Aug 30, 2012 at 3:16 p.m.
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http://factcheck.org/2012/08/ryans-vp-sp...
Aug 30, 2012 at 3:12 p.m.
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West -- the article you pointed to in fact says they still filled remaining orders for 4 months. Plus -- as I recall -- reading several articles in that time frame, up to including and even after the 4 months period beyond Decemeber, that people still believed that there was a chance of retooling and remaining open. (meaning the ex-employees of GM). The article you pointed to agrees in substance to what Ryan stated and in fact the belief that many ex GM workers and people had in the city was that there was a chance.
Why did they believe that ?? Maybe becuase of Obamas statements. I am not sure how politifact in this instance can say there was still work being done, yet say the plant was closed. Ryan is correct according to the article. So keep twisting your undies, but the truth is -- t hey still were making vehicles, filling orders and had hope -- but Obamas change failed them as it did many others.
Aug 30, 2012 at 3:04 p.m.
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In no way has Ryan's statement about the GM plant been debunked.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/stat...
Aug 30, 2012 at 2:53 p.m.
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I agree with no, so, where are the former and current GMer's to back up the truth about the plant? All we had to do, is look up the facts in writing to get it right. However, if someone shows a liberal democrat the truth, they will deny and make up a different version of the truth. Some conservatives and Republicans are the same way, but the track record points to the other side.
Aug 30, 2012 at 2:49 p.m.
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I don't know, 'no', but when Fox starts calling out R's for lies, (along with virtually everyone else) I'm gonna stick with the likelihood that he did. BTW, how was the GM factcheck 'debunked'?
Aug 30, 2012 at 2 p.m.
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The so-called "fact-check" about GM closing date has already been debunked. The other Ryan statements aren't untrue either, all the AP does is try to say "yeah but you..." afterwards. Totally lame.
Aug 30, 2012 at 12:50 p.m.
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Paul Ryan is telling lies. As my mom would have said, the "everybody's doing it" argument doesn't make it OK.
Aug 30, 2012 at 12:49 p.m.
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Factual shortcuts = LIES
Aug 30, 2012 at 12:31 p.m.
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One lie, well that might be a mistake. Two lies, well, yeah, he shouldn't have done that. The real story here isn't the huge number of lies; the real story is that they HAD to know about this many of them, and yet Mr. Religious-moral-churchgoer made a deliberate decision to spew them anyway. If this is his idea of solid morality, how can anyone believe in anything he says? I hope the Gazette EDITORS will dish out some STRONG criticism on this issue, in addition to the lies themselves.
Aug 30, 2012 at 12:29 p.m.
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Knock it off ye whiny libs. It has been well-established that the GOP will not be encumbered by little things such as the truth.
I am sure RAF will be along later to justify the lies again, saying it's merely the same thing the dems do. (Of course it is, only we GOP do it better)
Aug 30, 2012 at 12:18 p.m.
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I listened for about 10 minutes and heard at least 3 misleading statements , so I just turned it off. I'm sure the democratic convention will be just as bad.
Aug 30, 2012 at 11:28 a.m.
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Labor what is the bill number of that co-sponsored bill I would like to check that out.
Aug 30, 2012 at 11:16 a.m.
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Democrats don't lie as often they are perfectly upfront about how they are going to screw you.
Aug 30, 2012 at 11:09 a.m.
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I would almost bet that the press, other than Fox news will check the facts of the speeches the Democrates give at their convention. Every side tries to bend the facts in their favor as much as they can get away with, it is human nature.
Aug 30, 2012 at 10:41 a.m.
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liberals lie also. they are just better at it!
Aug 30, 2012 at 10:27 a.m.
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Republicans lie.
Aug 30, 2012 at 10:16 a.m.
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"In a clean break from the Obama years, AND FRANKLY FROM THE YEARS BEFORE THIS PRESIDENT, we will keep federal spending at 20 percent of GDP, or less." - Paul Ryan acceptance speech
Paul Ryan has seen the light and joined with legions of liberals in proclaiming, it's Bush's fault!
Aug 30, 2012 at 9:17 a.m.
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It's nice to see the press doing the job it is supposed to do. With even the slightest bit of luck maybe they could question the other sides' claims now. When we finally see that they are basically two sides of the same coin we can vote out the two party stranglehold.
Aug 30, 2012 at 8:43 a.m.
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As Associated Press, FOX News and other leading media have proven, Paul Ryan lied a lot last night.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum...
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robe...
http://www.thenation.com/blog/169648/the...
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/3...
Romney-Ryan:
You can't trust America's future to such liars!
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