Walter, it would be interesting to see where your interpretation of "the People" having a right only in service of the State leads.

...."your comparison of the US to Libya and Syria is absurd and negates any valid argument you may post."

I'm not the one who claims that a populace with small arms is powerless vs. a govt equipped with all the "gee-whiz" heavy equipment but I'm confident you will ignore anything that does not fit your world view.

916WI, we all have had our fill over history of the wrong interpretations by the Supreme Court.

"The NRA is on the wrong side of history. With time, and more mass shootings, we're very likely to see a drastic shift in the Supreme Court's interpretation of the right to keep and bear arms."
-------
Good luck with that one buddy!:) With over 310 million guns in the US and 1/3 of the US households armed, it would be comical to see the government attempt to disarm the citizens of this country. Gun ownership in this country is nowhere near leveling off. The total number of background checks for guns have doubled since 2000. While the mass shootings are tragic, Americans have a very short attention span. Within the next month or two, the horrible tragedy in Newtown will be a distant memory and it will be back to status quo. Sad for sure, but life goes on........

"The Amendment's text does justify a different limitation: the "right to keep and bear arms" protects only a right to possess and use firearms in connection with service in a state-organized militia. Had the Framers wished to expand the meaning of the phrase "bear arms" to encompass civilian possession and use, they could have done so by the addition of phrases such as "for the defense of themselves."
--------
If any of this was actually true regarding the intent of the founding fathers, they would have simply changed the wording of the amendment from "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" to "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the militia to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.....No?? It would certainly be less "wordy" and make their idea extremely clear if that really was their actual intent. That concept would make too much sense though:)

Great liberal position whythink, take others money to spend the way you want. If you really stood by your position you would step up with your own money, not take it from others.

Wis”lady” said, “I believe I made some other suggestions, in my comment. Also, from the protesting teachers I saw at the Capitol and other events around Wisconsin, putting a gun in their hands would not be wise.”
.
Wis”lady”, this is the comment I was referring to with my “rant”. It is obvious to anyone it is a hate-filled cheap shot aimed directly at public educators. Heck, one of your other posts talks about the mentally ill not having access to guns… perhaps a very indirect, passive-aggressive, cheap shot. Considering the events that led to this discussion/article involved public educators dying to save their students a comment referring to WI educators as protesters that can’t handle guns (mentally ill, hint, hint) I find disgusting and YES IGNORANT. WI teachers protested for their workplace rights. These same teachers would sacrifice themselves just like the teachers at Sandy Hook. For you to question their mental ability or stability in general is disgusting and ignorant. BTW, if I call someone a name it is a mistake, I always try to refer to their comments as … not the person as …
.
Wis”lady” said,
“The first thing schools should be doing is securing the entrances. There should be major changes in place when the kids go back to school in January. Alarms installed in classrooms that go off in the main office and the police department? Something needs to be done soon.”
.
Why_think said,
“One last idea...
How about all the money that conservatives (NRA, wislady, etc...) are willing to spend on guns and guards be spent restoring the Social Work, Guidance Counselor, Mentor and ATODA Counselor positions in public schools?
.
Perhaps smaller class sizes and more "mental health" staff in the schools is a better investment for ALL students than guns and guards.”
.
OK, so I forgot “alarms”. The point is the money spent on SECURITY could be spent to restore critical positions that have been cut in recent years.

Walter still waiting, what southerns stated your "claim"?

fearbasedrhetoricposter is a pathetic political attacker, nothing more nothing less. Any comments by her about teachers are irrelevant . Disgusting comments are not new, why would anyone ever be shocked?

WR

As usual, you have run the train off the rails.

This article is about whether or not there should be armed guards in schools. It is something Clinton proposed years ago.

The AP headline, of course, starts the tone for you. Since there are already schools who have used armed guards, it is not a new concept.

Do you not think that changing the entries and using more security is the very first thing to be done?

This is something that should be happening before the kids go back to school following the holidays. That very simple first step (increasing the security at every school), doesn't need a year of committee meetings to get started.

wislady,
So which is it? In one post you're singing the program's praises. In the next you're disparaging it as a boondoggle. The waters get murky when you're of the party that tells the government to stay out of your life entirely until you decide you want the government to put an armed officer in every school in the country.

wislady is a pathetic political attacker, nothing more nothing less. Any comments by her about teachers are irrelavant. Disgusting comments are not new, why would anyone ever be shocked?

WalterReuther

People have been trying to find answers for years on the Columbine killings. Yes, I did read the timeline.....all of it, did you? That information was compiled by the Sheriff's department.

Regarding the COPS program: The program itself has been "clearly muddled", probably on purpose.

Others have a different opinion of how effectively the money has been spent in the COPS program. The program initially was a 10 year program which ended in 2004. The negative aspect was money was not accounted for accurately, and much was wasted. Several reports have been done on the COPS program.

COPS Reform: Why Congress Can't Make the COPS Program Work

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports...

This article was from 2005 (which was a review of the 10 years)...when many felt the money was not used wisely.

"The Justice Department, which oversees COPS, has recouped only $6 million of the $277 million in grant spending that auditors have questioned. Auditors continue to seek documentation from 82 police agencies that have not explained in detail how they spent $111 million."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/wash...

The COPS program was underwent more changes in 2011, as reported in this file.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL33308....

With the fiscal issues facing us as a nation, hopefully, the money will be used more wisely than in the initial 10 year program.

why_think

Quit going off on a rant and twisting my comments. When I commented about teachers who protested (angry, yelling, and hostile), those are not the people who should be carrying guns in schools. I never said teachers should be armed, but I do think SOMEONE with training could possibly be the solution. As I said...I suggested other things to make schools safer. What suggestions are you offering?

Just because others have comments and ideas/opinions that are not the same as yours, does NOT give you the right to call people ignorant. My comment was NOT about the Sandy Hook event. As I stated, it was in regards to the protests we have had in Wisconsin.

Calm down and think before you type.

wislady,
Your ingorance, hatred has hit a new pathetic low.
.
Victoria Soto threw herself in front of her first grade students at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. on Friday, Dec. 14, 2012. She was killed in the mass shooting
.
Principal Dawn Hochsburg and school psychologist Mary Scherlach, hearing this, ran from a room across the hall and confronted Lanza. Lanza shot them both. Hochsprung reportedly lunged at Lanza as she was being shot.
.
The story of the teacher found, murdered, holding, not her child, but a Special Education student.
.
The fact that you claim to have seen something in Madison that would give you cause to continue to take cheap shots at teachers in this state, in ANY state, after what happened a couple weeks ago, is pure hatred/ignorance.
.
Every teacher I know, including those that loudly and proudly protested to protect their worker rights as WI educators, would react the same way as the teachers did at Sandy Hook.
.
Your comments continue to be hate-filled and disgusting. You simply do not get it. Political beliefs do not define a person. Political protests do not define a person.
.
Ignorant, cowardly, hate-filled comments do.
.
Are you a: loser, you writes on these boards simply for the pleasure of responses like mine, that prove, someone is listening
.
or a: hate-filled, mean-spirited loser, that actually believes what you write
.
or a: conservative/republican that is angry and blind; lacks the ability to recognize the meaning or her words.
.
Just curious.
.
I do not want teachers to carry guns because that isn't their job. Perhaps on that, we agree.

Gandalf,
Go easy my friend. Some of these folks focus so hard on the 2nd amendment that it's pretty easy for the other amendments to trip them up.

stay classless moo a perfect example of your party.

What southerners said that walter?

Sadly the left is not as outraged over the hundreds of thousands of innocent children, killed by the choice of a mother....nope that is protected by the first amendment; also by a 5 to 4 vote...

A brilliant observation Poobah. As we approach a new year here's to moving the country in a more enlightened and progressive direction even if many have to come along kicking and screaming. Just remember all you gun romanticizers, a lot of southerners said slavery was a right that would only be taken from their cold, dead hands. Sound familiar? Cheers!

wislady,
Did you read the timeline of events that you posted the link to? Most of the deaths occurred after the deputy exchanged fire with one, just one, of the shooters. That one shooter only fired 4 times as the deputy. The entire exchanged lasted less than 30 seconds. Yes, many students in the immediate vicinity may have been saved by this short exchange but by distracting the shooter at this point in the rampage, the deputy may have just helped the shooter to save his bullets for the fish in a barrell scenario that he found in the school's library.
Also, your understanding of the COPS program is clearly muddled. Even Milwaukee police chief Ed Flynn was on the record as saying the most effective part of that legislations was the community outreach and education. Let's not forget the fact that Republicans attacked that program from the very beginning. President W Bush defunded it and it wasn't until President Obama's stimulus plan that the COPS program started receiving funding again.
http://www.politicususa.com/bitter-crazy...

WalterReuther breached the subject of the interpration of the Second Amendment right to "keep and bear arms" and whether that right was in connection with service in a state militia. In D.C. v. Heller, the United States Supreme Court was split 5-4 on this issue, with the majority taking the position that the the right was not limited to connection with military service. However, it's important to note that four justices, in their dissenting opinion, felt the right was limited only to a connection with service in a state militia.

"The Amendment's text does justify a different limitation: the "right to keep and bear arms" protects only a right to possess and use firearms in connection with service in a state-organized militia. Had the Framers wished to expand the meaning of the phrase "bear arms" to encompass civilian possession and use, they could have done so by the addition of phrases such as "for the defense of themselves." Justice Stevens writing in dissent, joined by Justices Souter, Ginsburg and Breyer.

The Court appears to be just one vote away from ruling the intent of the Second Amendment was a right to keep and bear arms only in connection with service in a state militia. The NRA is on the wrong side of history. With time, and more mass shootings, we're very likely to see a drastic shift in the Supreme Court's interpretation of the right to keep and bear arms.

why_think

I believe I made some other suggestions, in my comment. Also, from the protesting teachers I saw at the Capitol and other events around Wisconsin, putting a gun in their hands would not be wise.

hiredgun,
I was referring to what should be required, at the very least, to be given the privilege of purchasing an assault rifle. Training in the use of mags would go along with that.

916,
I'm sure the founding fathers would consider us far from a "well regulated militia" given the fact that the USA easily leads the world in child massacres by gun. I also like how you implied that "right of the people" was written in all caps. That would read "very differently" if that's what was actually written...but it wasn't.

Too funny Waldo! If what you say is true, the founding fathers could have very easily referenced "strategically located armories" in the body of the Constitution. What was written, however, reads very differently......A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed........

Walter,

Six weeks to train one in the use of a magazine is absurd. That's the functional equivalent of taking a 6 week course on a car tire. It may be of some use to a mechanic, but the rest of us don't need it. Having retired from the Army after 30 years, I don't recall that I had a total of 6 weeks training on basic small arms in that 30 years. So yes, burdensome. Propose something reasonable, based on fact, based on reality, and people might think you're serious.

As to handgun training, the Wisconsin legislature has already spoken to that issue and the answer is no.

BunBun,
It's time for a little history lesson. The writers of the Constitution were not writing it while in the process of fighting the Brits. The Revolutionary War ended in September, 1783. The drafting of the Constitution didn't begin until May, 1787, almost 4 years later. The 2nd amendment wasn't about arming the populace in the manner in which we have today. They were talking about keeping strategically located armories to be used by the local militia men to protect settlements from aggressive Native Americans or an invading foreign force. The guns were not meant to be kept by the militia men. Sure, they had guns with which they could hunt, but the combat type weapons were kept locked up until needed. Remember the old battle cry, "To arms! To arms!" That was to let the militia men know to high tail it to the armory. That is what the 2nd amendment intended. It has been repeatedly exploited and bastardized over the years.
"[The Second Amendment] has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word 'fraud,' on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime."
-Former Chief Justice Warren Burger, The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour, December 16, 1991

There's a new See n' Say pull-string doll. Pull its "chatty ring" and it says one of the following things, over and over and over again:

"So typical of the do as I say not as I do left fringe party."

"Simple reality escapes your grasp."

"The ignornant are so blind."

"The facts are hard for some to understand."

"The lefts ability to do math is funny."

"Complete ignorance."

"The hilarity of the left."

"If you need this explained further you might want to ask for adult assistance."

"Ignoring the truth and echoing the party line has become common place for the MSDNC crowd."

"(This comment was removed by the site staff.)"

"As I suspected, the left fringe brigade protects their criminals....just more of the same from the party of do as I say not as I do."

"Just more of the same from the do as I say not as I do crowd."

"Take off your ideological blinders", more of the same from the do as I say not as I do crowd.

gandalf stated "I have never refused 'to discuss the failed laws that have not stopped all the killing in Chicago' (or any where else for that matter). Why would you fabricate such an assertion."

Yet gandalf also stated "Using the spike in gun violence in Chicago as proof that passing laws doesn't work is likewise faulty, and your comparison of Chicago to Afghanistan is another instance of your propensity to offer up illogical comparisons to support your weak arguments."

Some people can't remember their own positions.

I thank God that I don't live in those large cesspool cities, Chicago, New York, etc.

Yes gandalf just like your refusal to discuss the failed laws that have not stopped all the killing in Chicago. Ignoring failed approaches is no way to find a successful one.

..and yes, Gandalf, I wouldn't care to shoot at an M1A2 with an AR but if this country devolved into chaos, anyone with a brain will shoot at the people delivering fuel, food, and ammo rather than shoot at armor. Eventually, said Abrams will be relegated to a heavy duty pigeon perch. You assume that a rebellious populace will be stupid enough to stand in the street to slug it out with an infantry division- the first that tried it will only serve as an example of what not to do.

Must be some form of selective myopia since all the jets, bombs and tanks didn't keep Muamar Khadafi alive or give Assad in Syria a lock on power.

Yes, the authors of the Constitution did not intend for the populace to have the ability to overthrow an abusive government structure that did not respond to the will of the citizenry....at least in your version of the universe.

What was happening at the time the Constitution was being authored? Oh, yeah...they were in the process of overthrowing by force of arms the legal but unresponsive and abusive colonial government.

Imagine...a bunch of people not intimidated by the worlds greatest superpower who were armed with state of the art assault weaponry, artillery and warships....

before anyone tries the argument, The Long Land pattern Musket (the Brown Bess) WAS the "assault weapon" of the day. Heavy and smooth bored, it was not the best choice as a hunting arm but it was capable of 6-8 rounds per minute where an expert hunting rifleman was capable of only 2.

Walter once again simple reality escapes your grasp. A slanted reporter broke the law but your only concern is the first amendment user he was interviewing. You do this at the same time demanding more laws when you are unwilling to be discussing laws that are broken. Complete ignorance.

King Rizzo:
YES! The paradox is amazing isn't it? And it truly just exposed the NRA for what they are. Nothing more then a k-street lobbyist for gun manufacturers. Much like The AARP is nothing more then lobbyists for big health care, ext.
.
This whole idea of being able to arm yourself against the government is so beyond laughable in today's age. YES that was true back in the 1700's and 1800's, and much why they came up with the 2nd amendment. Today, if the government turns against us, WE ARE SCREWED! Your mass arsenal of assault weapons, and ammunition, sure as hell won't protect you from the the government if they truly turn totalitarian against a citizen, which was what the founding fathers did indeed fear. A military official can today sit in a corner office, and fly a drone over and take you out in an instant, if they wanted to. If the US government ever turns evil, and on it's people, face it, the citizen is screwed. You would be killed in the blink of an eye, and never even see the face of your killer, or be able to fire all your weapons at them!

shopierhuh:
I am not part of the "left". I am a libertarian. My many posts over the years have made that very clear, and are very consistent. The NRA is indeed nothing more then a glorified communist party. My comment about having a government drone take them out was tongue and cheek, but make no doubt that the left and the NRA are EQUALLY as big government advocates as they come, and the NRA is far BIGGER government then the left is with this position.. Anytime you have advocates for arming public officials, that is indeed thee 1st steps to TYRANNY, and a communist state. When the measure ultimately FAILS, and you have more shooting sprees, you will then hear that you need to arm MORE and MORE public officials, so you are basically left with a police state, where armed police are everywhere. Which, of course is GREAT for the NRA, who works for gun manufactures, and their sales of weapons. It amazes me how anyone on the right, who CLAIMS to be for limited government supports these clowns at the NRA. Your party will go to the grave embracing these tyrannical neo communists, mark my word on that one.

You can't take our guns away because that will take away our ability to rise up against a well-armed government. Instead we should place armed government employees in every classroom. What?

COPS in Schools (Clinton's or LaPierre"s) should at best be a stop gap, relatively short term program to deal with the plethora and associated danger of the people killing tools that the NRA and the Republicans have long advocated putting into our civilian population. This COPS in Schools program that you all want should be of limited term at the same time as a parallel effort is put into place that deals with the real problem of people killing tools in the hands of, or convenient to most anyone to get there hands on and use in a fit of anger or rage. I really do not think that COPs in Schools should be a permanent government solution that will only be required to grow to meet additional demands placed on it by the increasing sales of more and more efficient people killing tools. How is this program paid for? By the victims through taxes similar to how we are making the veterans and the families of veterans of Iraq/Afghanistan pay for these unfunded wars? Or should there be user fees on these people killing tools to be paid for by those who want to see these people killing tools proliferate throughout society and require even more armed guards in the schools, malls, street corners, movie theaters, etc.? Where will this all end?

One last idea...
How about all the money that conservatives (NRA, wislady, etc...) are willing to spend on guns and guards be spent restoring the Social Work, Guidance Counselor, Mentor and ATODA Counselor positions in public schools?
.
Perhaps smaller class sizes and more "mental health" staff in the schools is a better investment for ALL students than guns and guards.

WalterReuther

You can make any statement YOU chose, but you have yet to provide any verifiable accounts.

"In their zeal to rampage this left-wing agenda, the media has apparently forgotten that back in 2000, on the one-year anniversary of the Columbine shooting (which occurred with an assault weapons ban in place), President Clinton requested $60 million in federal money to fund a fifth round of funding for a program called “COPS in School,” a program that does exactly what the NRA is proposing and the media is currently in overdrive mocking:

Clinton also unveiled the $60-million fifth round of funding for “COPS in School,” a Justice Department program that helps pay the costs of placing police officers in schools to help make them safer for students and teachers. The money will be used to provide 452 officers in schools in more than 220 communities.

“Already, it has placed 2,200 officers in more than 1,000 communities across our nation, where they are heightening school safety as well as coaching sports and acting as mentors and mediators for kids in need,” Clinton said."

"The "National School Safety Shield" program proposed by the National Rifle Association has been criticized by some who claim that an armed guard in a school is ineffective. They cite, as proof, the Columbine High School shooting of 1999, during which an armed guard was on campus. Their argument is that the armed guard failed to make a difference, as 12 students and one teacher were killed.

However, a timeline of the events assembled by the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department and published by CNN proves just the opposite. The armed guard, Jefferson County Sheriff's Deputy Neil Gardner, was able to engage the killers, keeping them from shooting more victims, and he personally saved dozens of students."

http://educationviews.org/bill-clinton-w...

Timeline of events by the Sheriff's Department published by CNN....

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbi...

RAF,
Your metaphor pales in comparison to the voluminous foam that visibly formed at the corners of LaPierre's mouth while he sat there desperately dodging extremely simple straightforward questions. Perhaps that excess of spittle formed due to the fright felt by LaPierre of that hardened criminal, David Gregory, waving around that empty magazine right in front of him. Interesting that LaPierre never once mentioned the possible indiscretion. Perhaps that's because for a pro gun rights advocate to crow on and on and on about how restrictive gun rights should be enforced is nothing short of the height of hypocrisy.

hiredgun,
Why not take the framework of the amount of training it takes to get licensed to drive (6 week training course, proficiency of use exam, register the vehicle, all at the owner's expense) and then tack on the the criminal background check and mental stability testing because of the fact that an assault rifle has absolutely no other primary purpose but to kill a person or persons extremely quickly? It only seems reasonable to create a process that is similar to that of gaining the legal privilege to drive. Do you consider the requirements to get a driver's license "overburdensome and downright silly"?

"Can we just have Obama's big government send in one of those drones to take out the bigger government NRA?"-kiowamerican@ 4:32pm

Why does the left always have to resort to extreme violence? In this case a simple differing of opinion causes the lefties to wish a missile strike on those that don't think the same way. This is why we have the Second Amendment, to defend from this type of murderous tyranny. The left has murdered more than 100,000,000 people since the start of the 20th century. Lenin, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, to name a few of the big players, plus many "smaller" despots and murderous tyrants who have only each killed a million or so.

Guess what, lefties? You are the best gun salesmen that the country has ever had. Firearms sales are off the chart in the last few weeks, far surpassing the record sales that have taken place each month of Barry's presidency.

"Exposing the hypocrisy is a never ending effort."
And lucky for us we have the super hero to constantly thwart that hypocrisy.

For those who constantly want to say the 1994 assault weapons ban had not effect on mass shootings, please consider this:

“The law also banned possession of illegally imported or manufactured firearms, but did not ban possession or sale of pre-existing 'assault weapons' or previously factory standard magazines that were legally redefined as large capacity ammunition feeding devices.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Ass...

If the Assault weapons and large magazines were already in the population and still legal to possess, trade, sell and use, why would you expect to see an immediate decrease in killings? Statistically there should have been no increase but not necessarily a decrease in killings using these very efficient people killing tools as nothing had really changed. If the assault weapons and accessories already in existence prior to the ban had been made illegal to sell, trade, possess or use and many had been turned in (or put into hiding as I know would have happened in some cases), then I would have expected to see a decrease in mass killings – this was not part of the law, however. The point of making these items illegal was to cut off the easy and relatively cheap fuel that continually feeds the fire of macho people killing tools being used on innocent victims. Eventually the supply would have dried up over a long period of time. If the law would have been written to make the assault-like weapons and accessories illegal to sell, trade, possess or use, many of the weapons would have ended up in collector’s hands or turned in. I would have expected the law (with a more immediate reduction in the killings using these very efficient tools) to be much more effective if the latter had been part of the law. The bushmaster that was used in the Sandy Hook shootings, I bet had not even been manufactured prior to 1994 (I cannot verify this except that his mother apparently legally purchased this people killing tool) and most likely would not have so easily ended up in the shooter’s hands.

I cannot see arming teachers. Teachers currently have things stolen from briefcases, purses etc. I can't see how one could safely keep them from students. They could be locked up, but then you would be faced with getting them out of the secure location in an emergency. I suppose I could strap a holster on along with my name tag and key fob, but that is not in the new dress code. Hiring an armed guard per school would mean hiring 22 more people something I doubt the school district can afford. Why anyone needs an assault weapon or clips of ammo that can shoot so many outside a battlefield is beyond my comprehension.

Please allow the head of the Communist party; errrrrrrrrrrrrr the NRA, to keep opening his mouth! The more this guy speaks, the more this organization is exposed for what it really is. That being one who represents gun manufacturers, and NOTHING more. Leave it to a communist to say arming public officials in the name of safety, and put in the childish context of a 'good guy vs bad guy' is what is needed to keep your children safe. Can we just have Obama's big government send in one of those drones to take out the bigger government NRA?

Eagle1 - just saw your comments trying to justify your comments about the VP shooting himself. Some "jokes" are not jokes at all. Why would you ever "joke" about the person a heartbeat away from the most powerful position in the world getting shot? Doesn't this strike you as more than a little crass and of out of line? I can only imagine the topic of some of your other “jokes”……

This is not a game of winning. Exposing the hypocrisy is a never ending effort.

RAF,
You'd be more successful in winning people over to your point of view if you weren't so condescending.

Walter
Given the Supreme Court's decision in District of Columbia v. Heller, wherein the Court struck down the D.C. handgun ban, it is difficult to see why a ban on the magazine will be upheld.
That aside, your statement that
"If that magazine was real it is an extremely dangerous weapon accessory and should never at any time be handled by a civilian without weeks of extensive firearms training followed by a comprehensive proficienty exam. The handler of such a magazine should also have gone through a thorough criminal background check and a battery of tests to determine mental stability. The magazine should also be registered with the state where the owner resides, the ATF & the FBI," demonstrates a scary ignorance of what a 30-round magazine really is. If you impose restrictions on ownership of handguns, magazines or long guns that are overburdensom and downright silly, then not only will you have criminals ignoring the law, but you will have the otherwise lawbiding citizen ignoring the law as well. It would be like imposing a 25 mph speed limit on an expressway.

" It couldn't be that raising a stink about Gregory and the magazine is an effort to divert attention away from Wayne LaPierre's foaming at the mouth performance "
-
The hilarity of the left. Not one of them came forward insisting existing weapons laws be enforced. They foamed at the mouth over wanting more laws but so typically ignored current law. Just more of the same from the party of do as I say not as I do.

RAF,
If David Gregory was in fact dumb enough to use the real mccoy rather than a replica he absolutely deserves to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. If that magazine was real it is an extremely dangerous weapon accessory and should never at any time be handled by a civilian without weeks of extensive firearms training followed by a comprehensive proficienty exam. The handler of such a magazine should also have gone through a thorough criminal background check and a battery of tests to determine mental stability. The magazine should also be registered with the state where the owner resides, the ATF & the FBI. All that being said Gregory had no business with that magazine as it is illegal to possess one in D.C. He ignored a completely reasonable law that should be in place everywhere in the US. I'm sure you agree, RAF, otherwise why would you be so adamantly and repeatedly pointing out this aspect of the story? It couldn't be that raising a stink about Gregory and the magazine is an effort to divert attention away from Wayne LaPierre's foaming at the mouth performance on MTP that morning, would it? You know, the one where he made the idiotic claim that nearly all members of the media have armed guards.

It is sad that it has come to this.

But when this happens again, and it will happen again, the question will be asked "Why didn't you have a armed trained police officer on campus?"

I agree with Ms. Weingarten that schools should be sanctuaries and not armed fortresses. But it also seems that, these days, you cannot have a sanctuary without a deterrent to those who would turn that sanctuary into a slaughter pen. Of course we'd want our schools to be sanctuaries, but that may no longer be possible without an armed presence.

Do we look at what should be or what must of necessity be?

Hillarity as the left fringe remains silent over the law breaking media, the same media these fringe leftists were patting on the pack for an interview. During the interview the "journalist" waved a 30 round magazine. Turns out the local police warned NBC not to display this item because it was illegal.

Just more of the same from the do as I say not as I do crowd.

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/co...

Eagle1,
You're the joke that I'm over. Good luck with your next love letter to Jodie Foster.

Walt, I guess you and ford fall into the same category by choosing an off the cuff remark to comment on rather than bringing anything of substance to the other 90% of my post, well played sir, you have made your point very clear.

Walt, Change biden's name out for a politician you wouldn't pucker up for and I am sure you will be rolling in hysterics. I see partisanship has now destroyed humor... lovely.

wislady,
You said this:
"Bill Clinton wanted to put guns in schools after Columbine."
That is not a factual statement at least not based any any public statements. If President Clinton told you this in confidence, I still doubt you could prove it.
As for Columbine, there was one armed deputy and he was forced to keep his distance after exchanging fire with one of the shooters because he was clearly outgunned.

You may not have found it funny but yes it was a joke get over it.

So much for holiday goodwill. Grrrrrrrrrrrr...

Regarding Columbine......there was a security person there who was armed. He and another person stopped the attack before swat teams arrived. Without them, more would have been killed.

WalterReuther

Take the time to read my comment. I didn't suggest that what happened during Clinton era was good or bad....just that the topic has come up before.

I did have other suggestions, which were the point of my comment.

Eagle1,
There is nothing funny about the idea of Vice President Biden shooting himself. That was not a joke. It was simply a crass comment which you then doubled down on. How do you expect anyone to engage in "serious" talk with you when you post garbage like that and then try to defend it? You have the right to express yourself, but others also have the right to dismiss you as an offensive kook.

oh and also adding credibility to my statement many on here don't put any thought to their posts. You are really embracing the giving spirit of the season.

Fordfan you are right people that can't tell the difference between a joke and serious talk are a HUGE problem, thanks for volunteering as a case study.

"...our best hope is the VP will do some research on guns and end up shooting himself." Maybe putting comments like in print is another thing that should be discussed......

I've taught. The idea of training my fellow educators and me is silly. I would worry more about accidentally shooting a child than protecting one. I trust our lockdown procedures. We need to complete educating, talking this over, guns, mental illness, whatever.
By the way, who is paying for this? Cut educator pay and benes, and spend on guns. Something wrong here...

Maybe this is the solution?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/25/us/new-yor...

Sorry MBH - you beat me to it.

WOW, so please tell us "what the real issue is on this matter" and you suggested solution. I didn't see it in your post Eagle1

Eagle1, ".... we don't want to be honest and address real solutions...", and what is the "real solution" according to you? You left that part out.

WOW I am astounded by the number of people on both sides of the political spectrum that refuse to see what the real issue is on this matter. We have banned guns in the past didn't do a damn thing, guns will always be available on the black market, much like drugs are despite all the laws and money wasted by the government to fight the so called "War on drugs" If nobody is going to get serious about the common thread of all these incidents then don't bother doing anything no matter how warm and fuzzy it makes you feel to have armed guards in a school or banning guns. Not much sickens me anymore I have seen too much of what the dark side of human behavior is capable of but the reaction to this issue has really made me want to puke. Like most of the country's issues we don't want to be honest and address real solutions and ideas that might make people a little uncomfortable, so if that is case then just stop with the shallow concepts and rhetoric that in the end will do nothing, it is generally rehashing of failed efforts of the past.

Hoping every one of you (lefties, righties, RAFians, etc.) have a very Merry Christmas. Kids are precious to all of us. I think we all seem to agree on that one. We should all be as kids at Christmas........but wait until the 26th :)

Now I have to get to bed or Santa will not stop here...from what I hear anyway. Merry Christmas all!!!!

...motor vehicles that will go over 100mph.

Walter- Ok, I will not necessarily argue with that, but all that motor vehicle training still doesn't stop reckless, homicidal killers from gaining possession of motor vehicles and committing countless homicides.
It is still the criminal not the object.

Also, wislady, there was an armed deputy at Columbine who exchanged fire with and was overpowered by one of the shooters.
It's also important to note that Clinton signed the Brady Bill which most gun rights advocates frequently blast as "unconstitutional". So are you cherry picking the Clinton gun legislaton that you want to praise?
I think we go with the idea that Deputy Gardner, the Columbine guard, came up with. Ban assault weapons AND put armed guards in all schools. I could get behind that. I doubt you would though. It would require a compromise which I know is a dirty word to certain people.

wislady,
"Clinton’s 1994 COPS (Community Oriented Policing Services) program, which Republicans tried to kill in 1995 and Bush defunded, was not about cops carrying armed weapons into schools. It was part of a broader approach to decrease crime rates by getting police involved in their communities. In other words, it was a sane policy.

The original Clinton plan, enacted as part of a crime bill in 1994, envisioned hiring 100,000 police officers who would walk the streets, visit the schools and get to know the communities they were policing. The federal government paid 75 percent of the cost for three years, with a salary and benefit cap of $75,000 per officer.”
http://www.politicususa.com/bitter-crazy...

truth1,
In order to operate a regular motor vehicle you have to go through weeks of training with a special instructor and then you have to go to the DMV to prove your proficiency in using the motor vehicle and you have to register any vehicles you own with the state all at your own expense. I think it's only reasonable to expect the same of gun owners especially if we're talking about allowing people to own semi-auto assault rifles that are capable of such high efficiency high volume killing.

Bill Clinton wanted to put guns in schools after Columbine. Anyone remember that?

The first thing schools should be doing is securing the entrances. There should be major changes in place when the kids go back to school in January. Alarms installed in classrooms that go off in the main office and the police department? Something needs to be done soon.

MBHammer- 99.99% of "youth" don't "wig out", as you put it, either.
Like I said, if you want to discover the problem do some research on the activities of "family courts".

MooShoo, i.e, combination answer/response, that is as about as good as it gets. Don't go tapioca on me.

truth1, It was self explanatory. I was twenty in 1975. Me and others my age at that time did not "wig out" and go to schools and feel bummed out and shoot innocent people. This is the self explanatory part of the message. I am at a loss as to why you did not understand this.

oops, 916, you're addressing the wrong poster....

Walter - You can't drive those on the street and neither you can you buy machine guns and rpgs.

shoeboy......You can't possibly be serious....can you? Only a complete fool would compare a criminal using a drug that is illegal in every state in this country to a law abiding citizen exercising a constitutionally protected right. You must have been hitting the booze a little early this holiday season!:)

There should be no limits, right? F1 racers on the streets and no speed limits because cars don't kill people. People kill people.
Legalize heroin. Drugs don't kill drug users. Drug users kill themselves.
It's time to get used to the fact that nobody's trying to take all the guns away. We're talking about sensible reforms. Crying wolf about an all out gun ban everytime you engage in a conversation about sensible gun control just leaves you looking silly especially when the gun lover is the only one in the conversation talking about a complete gun ban.

Mouse...You ask me to "think logic" and then put out an analogy like that? 99% of the cars on the road are easily capable of breaking the maximum speed allowed by law. Your extrapolations and suggestions make absolutely no sense.......

RAF,
That lower threshold should be dismissed as the FBI defines a mass killing as 4 or more people killed. 4 people can be killed with a 6 round revolver with bullets to spare. Given the types of weapons that now enjoy mass distribution, the FBI definition is outdate. It's very, very unfortunate that I have to say that, but it's true. That is why the findings of Sam Wang stand up. He included the other study's findings to offer another perspective, but the fact remains that large mass shootings have rapidly increased in frequency since the lift of the assault weapons ban.

Mouse- Half of the cars on the road are capable of going 120mph or more...I call that very very fast...That brings the subject of motor vehicle violence and the carnage of people owning those things coupled with felons being able to own them, multiple-time drunk drivers allowed to possess them, people with bad driving records allowed to possess them, people who cause wrecks allowed to possess them.

America, land of unaccountability.......and then wonder why things "happen".

We just had another atrocity...Firemen shot and killed fighting a fire in new york state and what do you know...the 62 year-old animal had killed his grandmother with a hammer and was out after only SEVENTEEN YEARS....only with idiotic American "justice".

A red nose that glows is an evolutionary advantage if you're a reindeer living at the North Pole. Wishing everyone a holiday season filled with peace.

Shoeboy......because there is a demand for them......Duh........
Many ordinary, law abiding citizens enjoy shooting semi-automatic rifles and their right to do just that is explicitly protected by the Constitution of the country that we live in. Is that an easy enough answer for you to understand, or will smaller words and pictures be necessary?:)

I should say.......do research on "family court" and you'll discover most of the problem.

MBHammer said.. "today's youth=thumbs down"
????????????
What???
WTH is THAT???
Look up "family court" and you'll find most of the actual problem.

Of course her question is without merit. The discussion is over what can be done to limit the violence, caused by criminals. Since the left fringe rhetoric is stuck on remove guns it only shows they don't want an honest discussion. Just like their silence over Gregory's total disregard for the law. They remain silent on those from the left who break weapons laws while claiming they want more of them. Just more of the same from the party of do as I say not as I do ....

MooShoo
No institution or directive (being forced against their will) is “putting greater numbers of very efficient killing tools” (guns) in the hands of citizens. Your question suggests there is a forceful atmosphere in America when it comes to gun choice. I don’t see it, therefore your question really has no merit. It reminds of a question that could possible be asked by a nut on TV named Piers Morgan.

...there are plenty of studies and examples of how the removal of guns has not stopped violence. Just look at Chicago. The problem has never been the "tool" it has always been the criminal.

If you weren't so admiring of your past rhetoric filled remarks you would have seen my response.

"What is the reason for putting greater numbers of very efficient killing tools in the hands of the American public?"
-
I never made the point nor that statement. I have stated, or hinted, there are plenty of studies and examples of how the removal of guns has not stopped violence. Just look at Chicago. The problem has never been the "tool" it has always been the criminal.

Expecting you to have an honest discusion on gun issues is a dilusion, after all here are some of your fear based rhetoric on this topic, past and present;

"Shoot first and let God sort it out!"

"No rules except NRA rules!"

"Assembly Republicans are COWARDS if they limit CC in their public domain after that made it legal to CC in my public domain. They deserve what I get!"

"Wayne Lapierre's hands are covered in blood."

" Keep it up, the blood is on your party's hands..."

Today's youth=thumbs down.

MooShoo, ford asked 8 questions, the one you stated wasn't one of them. Making false rhetoric filled statements has become a habit of yours.

Walter watch the interview and leave out the media matters talking points.

Walter you might want to read your links before posting them.

"Update: Using the FBI’s lower threshold for what constitutes a “mass” killing, this analysis by James Alan Fox suggests no change since 2004 in the number of incidents in which four or more people were killed."

RAF, Gregory never mockingly questioned putting armed guards in schools. He specifically pointed out that 1/3 of American schools already have some type of armed guard. He also pointed out that armed guards are considered by many to be a viable solution. He also pointed out that at Columbine there was an armed guard on duty that exchanged fire with one of the shooters but was outgunned. He was presenting all sides of the argument.

From 1982 to 1994 there were 19 mass shootings (1.5 per year). An average of 25.5 people were killed per year in these shootings.
From 1995 to 2004 there were 16 mass shootings (1.6 per year). An average of 20.9 people were killed per year in these shootings. The number of shootings per year remained status quo but the average number of total deaths went down.
From 2005 to 2012 there were 27 mass shootings (3.4 per year). An average of 54.8 people were killed per year in these shootings. The number of shootings per year more than doubled and the number of people killed per year almost tripled after the assault weapons ban expired.
http://election.princeton.edu/2012/12/14...

MooShoo speaking of nuts, since you are incapable of reading what has already been posted I will REPEAT it for you. Let me spell it out for you, since you couldn't grasp it the first time. His/her major point was the size of magazines. This was addressed in the assault weapon ban passed during the Clinton years. A major study performed following the ban concluded this FACT.

Key finding of the 1994 assault weapon ban.

--The ban has failed to reduce the average number of victims per gun murder incident or multiple gunshot wound victims. https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles1/173405.t...

If you need this explained further you might want to ask for adult assistance.

So we cut teachers pay and benefits, weaken their union, let them know society thinks they lazy, greedy and overpaid, and then arm them. Anyone see a problem with this?

Not only was Gregory breaking existing law waving his magazine around on the set he is also a hypocrite. He was mockingly questioning putting armed people in schools when the school he sends his own kids to already has this in place.

SO typical of the do as I say not as I do left fringe party.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/greg...

As I noted in other blog posts; the mere talk of an assault riffle ban will put more into circulation then EVER. Here is recent proof of that.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/23...
.
Frankly the NRA, and the anti gun left, are both insane here. You will never stop gun violence by gun control laws, and you certainly don't stop it by becoming a NRA-Communist society, where armed police are everywhere. The real solution is for everyday citizens to notice a whack job, and SAY SOMETHING. ALL of these shooters had warning sign after warning sign of going out in a big 'blaze of glory' (in their sick mind). These people don't just wake up one morning and decide they are going to go on a shooting rampage. Or just have a bad day, and decide to go off. This stuff is planned out well in advance, and it's NEVER done covertly. The VA tech shooter was recommended by a certified psephologist to be institutionalized..NOTHING was done. The Columbine kids had been planning the killing spree for MONTHS, openly talking about it, and building bombs and stockpiling weapons in their parents home, for God sakes. The warning signs are always there. People in society just need to be more involved, and not just blow everything off as: "Oh well, it's not my problem" and look the other way; as so often we do in society today.

High Road, They had guns when I worked there. Perhaps they don't now...too bad.

Chuck knows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v...

As I suspected, the left fringe brigade protects their criminals....just more of the same from the party of do as I say not as I do.

RetiredAirForce said, "The sad lengths the media will go to include breaking gun laws during their own shows. On sunday's show David Gregory waved around a 30 round magazine while trying to make his emotion filled point. His show is filmed in the District of Columbia."

Real or replica, the comment quoted above is more extreme than the comments of the right fringe pundits and publications (samples below) that have tempered their reporting by using qualifiers such as "DID this person violate gun laws," or "This person MAY have violated gun laws." The prudent thing to do is to wait to see if this person is arrested, prosecuted and found guilty of breaking gun laws prior to making such irresponsible comments about the "sad lengths the media will go to include breaking gun laws during their own shows."

"Did NBC’s David Gregory Violate D.C. Gun Law on National TV?" The Blaze [ http://www.theblaze.com/stories/did-nbcs... ]

"David Gregory may have violated DC ban on high-capacity magazines" Twitchy [ http://twitchy.com/2012/12/23/david-greg... ]

"Did NBC’s David Gregory violate DC gun law on Meet the Press?" MichelleMalkin.com [ http://michellemalkin.com/2012/12/23/dav... ]

"...waved around a 30 round magazine"
What was that about "fear based rhetorical propaganda"? Don't let facts get in the way of your feelings or anything, RAF. That's exactly the point that David Gregory made during that interview with LaPierre, feelings aren't facts. When LaPierre started foaming at the mouth, it was a very telling autonomic response.

"Since the expiration of the gun ban in 2004, the number of shootings per year has doubled, and the number of victims per year has nearly tripled."
http://election.princeton.edu/2012/12/14...

Replicas, RAF, replicas. Get a clue.

Typical mouse ignore the criminals....

The sad lengths the media will go to include breaking gun laws during their own shows. On sunday's show David Gregory waved around a 30 round magazine while trying to make his emotion filled point. His show is filmed in the District of Columbia.

DC High Capacity Ammunition Magazines – D.C. Official Code 7-2506.01 (b) No person in the District shall possess, sell, or transfer any large capacity ammunition feeding device regardless of whether the device is attached to a firearm. For the purposes of this subsection, the term large capacity ammunition feeding device means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition. The term large capacity ammunition feeding device shall not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

Wonder how many folks FOR gun control will step up and want David punished for his crime? Or will they be silent because they are all from the do as I say not as I do party....

David Gregory's arguments on Sunday's show were emotion filled and devoid of fact.

Key finding of the 1994 assault weapon ban.

--The ban has failed to reduce the average number of victims per gun murder incident or multiple gunshot wound victims.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles1/173405.t...

I also agree that LaPierre did the NRA no favors this morning. It was really sad to see him squirm and evade questions (seems to be a trait by the right but I digress) and only advocate for more and more powerful killing tools. I am wondering if he falls into the category of those who would not pass a real background check based on a psychological profile….

Walter repeating your blatant fear based rhetorical propaganda to highlight the ignorance of it is hardly madlib. On the contrary it showed how out of touch the original remarks were from reality and highlighted the childlessness of them. The very fact you are worried about others, in my personal life, depicts how unsatisfied and unsettled you are with your own. It might be time for you to let go of your deep-seated fear and hate you have for others and try to lead a happy normal life based on real facts and not these fantasies you type.

Walter, I agree with your assessment of LaPierre's appearance on Meet The Press this morning. We're undoubtedly going to be seeing lots of replays and reading lots of commentary on his remarks, which were breathtaking in their lack of logic and dearth of reasoning.

RAF,
Someday when you develop the ability to create an original thought instead of playing madlibs with others' posts or relying on copy & paste to make your points, you might be a very persuasive person. Until then you're no better than a below average student that copies their classmates' work. It really begs the question: to what extent are other people actually deserving of the credit for whatever accomplishments you have claimed responsiblity for in your life. Happy Holidays!

Swansong....um people don't just walk around military bases with loaded weapons. Typically the only armed folks on a base are those at the gates and people on the base range who may be shooting. Typically all arms on a base are secured, with civi arms that belong to the troops being secured in the base weapons locker as well. If the troops were allowed to carry loaded arms in the commission of their duty the attack would been stopped very quickly.

I suppose all you gun nuts foam at the mouth like a rabid animal when talking about your guns just like Wayne LaPierre of the NRA did this morning on Meet the Press. Let me tell ya, he didn't do himself, his organization or all the gun nuts any favors with that performance.
The armed deputy that was on duty and exchanged fire with one of the shooters at Columbine supports armed guards at schools. You know what else he supports? A ban on assault rifles. This guy sounds experienced and reasonable to me:
“If you live through a school shooting, you understand you really don’t need these weapons,” Gardner, 57, said. “I don’t know why a normal person would need an assault rifle.”

MooShoo - I agree with your points and thank you for the comment (sorry about the length of my essay). The right's arguments are as phony as a $3 bill. I am still awaiting woodsman or a cohort of his to tell me where I am wrong…..

How about Metal Detectors at every school? That would be less dangerous. More guns are NOT the answer.

For all those people who think more guns are the answer - we already know it won't help: Columbine had an armed guard; Virginia Tech had a Police Department; Ft. Hood was a Military Base.

Your 2nd point is however; also paranoia. Arming schools is not the answer. It is only a step toward tyranny. If kids see armed people in their school, security cameras everywhere, ext, all it does is tell a kids psyche that all that is needed because they live in a hell hole, that is in extreme danger. The reality is, there are nuts everywhere, and when these psycho's decide to go on a rampage, very little can be done. You don't stop them once they decide to go on a shooting rampage. They must be stopped WELL BEFORE that point, and there is ALWAYS warning signs with EVERYONE of these nuts, well in advance.

"The NRA really missed the mark this time. Putting an armed police officer in every school would be a huge expansion of the government at a time when the government needs to shrink dramatically. Armed parents should volunteer to 'walk the halls' of their children's schools or sit in their car in the school's parking lot."
,.
BINGO Allin!
It truly just exposes what TOTAL HYPOCRITES these clowns are. The NRA professes to be of freedom, and limited government. Now they want to arm public officials in EVERY school...STOP. A step that is always the 1st to pure tyranny. They have truly just shown that they do not stand one bit for freedom, and are nothing more then an organization for PARANOID, DELUSIONAL morons, using the COVER of words like liberty, and freedom, to promote TYRANNY and paranoia!

The NRA position is beyond laughable. Anyone who actually believes this position is frankly insane. EVERY school in America? You are talking hundreds of thousands of schools to accomplish such a regime of BIG GOVERNMENT, and OPPRESSION. And yes, more armed police is by definition BIG GOVERNMENT and OPPRESSION. Look at any Communist regime, and what do you always see? Armed police everywhere!This conversation is not even worthy of serious discussion, if one believes in liberty. What about all the Catholic schools, and countless small schools of 10-50 students? They said everyone, so you'd have to spend bout $50k on all those for your armed commando to sit inside the fortress sleeping.
.
Lets also not forget Columbine HAD an armed liaison officer inside, and you also had a assault riffle ban in place in place under Bill Clinton at that time. Guess what folks, the assault riffle ban stopped NOTHING, the armed officer stopped NOTHING! You simply can not stop deranged psychopaths in a free society. If the result of this tragedy results in MORE big government via bannment of guns or arming schools, it is seriously time to leave this country. The US has all ready quickly fallen out of the top 10 of most free countries of the world over the last decade. After being the beacon of free societies, and liberty for centuries, we are becoming nothing more then the rise of the next big tyrannical paranoid state. Hey North Korea never has any problems with school shootings!

Silverado- According to Capt. Sciame in Beloit the officer liaisons at the Beloit Schools do not carry guns. http://www.beloitdailynews.com/news/man-...

why think-The mother owned the guns that were used to kill all those kids. She could have gone to your proposed program but I don't think it would have stopped here deranged kid from laying waste to all those kids.

The most immediate, common sense solution should be obvious to everyone.
.
6 weeks of gun education for anyone wishing to purchase ANY GUN. The course could be privately run, similar to driver's education courses. Include, shooting range, videos and statistics of the dangers of guns, etc...
.
I still remember the DUI death videos from my driver's ed class 25 years ago.
.
This doesn't involve making any guns illegal, banning anything, taking any guns away, etc... Simple education prior to purchase.
.
Someone, anyone, give me a reason why this isn't a realistic starting point.
.
Ideally, I would go further, but this seems like a start that could begin to change the culture regarding guns. Perhaps the next generation wouldn't have to live through what my generation (age 40) has lived through.
.
Most likely it doesn't prevent anything next week but the culture could begin to change.

The NRA really missed the mark this time. Putting an armed police officer in every school would be a huge expansion of the government at a time when the government needs to shrink dramatically. Armed parents should volunteer to 'walk the halls' of their children's schools or sit in their car in the school's parking lot.

bill,
Your comments are cowardly and off-topic.
.
Citing left-wing WHATEVER does nothing to solve the problem. How about, instead of hiding behind left-wing crap, give an opinion about the actual topic? You know, mass killing in the United States... gun control, mental health treatment, armed guards in every school pre-k through college, the NRA, etc...
.
Are you capable of doing something other than discussing political BS, low information voter crap!?!?!?!

You are right woodsman. Many before you have said, “Guns don’t kill people – people kill people”. It is just that guns are one of the most efficient tools there is for people to us to kill other people, usually by choice but sometimes totally by accident or negligence. And some guns are simply more efficient killing tools that other guns. It is so much more efficient to be able to crank out 30 rounds or 120 rounds before reloading than it is to only be able to crank out 1 or 5 or 10 rounds before reloading. The killing can be so much more efficient with the larger magazines. Knives don’t kill people…people kill people. Swords don’t kill people…people kill people. Ropes don’t kill people…people kill people. Strong hands don’t kill people…people kill people. It is just that knives, swords, ropes and hands do not measure up in efficiency as does a single shot rifle; a single shot rifle is not as efficient as a bolt action rifle; a bolt action rifle is not as efficient as a semi-automatic with a 10 round clip; a semi-automatic rifle with a 10 round clip is not as efficient as a semi-automatic with a 30 round clip and a semi-automatic with a 30 round clip is not as efficient as a semi-automatic with a 120 round magazine. If you disagree, then why do you want a semi-automatic with as large of a clip as you can get? Why not use a muzzle loader? A rope? A knife? A sword? The semi-automatic with a 130 round magazine is just simply a great people killing tool! If that is not true, why don’t you prefer a rope, a knife or a sword? Your argument that people don’t kill people is technically true, but the efficiency of the killing tool is what we are really talking about. And besides, if they are loaded they are just so handy also. Why, you don’t even have to get your hands dirty to do in so many people! It seems that the NRA and many others want as many very efficient killing tools in the hands of the population as they can get – so we can ALL feel so much more safe……..

But, if we are 5% of the world’s population and have 50% of the guns, why then is there so much gun violence? If the answer to the gun violence is to get more guns into the population, why, with the saturation we have with guns now (relative to the rest of world), do we not have fewer gun deaths rather than more gun deaths compared to all other industrialized nations? Please explain…….

Obama's kids have armed guards,i think we ALL should !!
And i see we still have some in denial,putting the blame on guns instead of the nuts that want to kill,you people just don't get it,prob.got foam bats in there houses for invaders,or think the cops will get there before anything happens,cops can only do so much,MAN UP and protect your families,Santa Claus can not always be there for you!!

NY Daily News headline:
CRAZIEST MAN ON EARTH
https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/2...
.
"Just 90 MINUTES after Newtown moment of silence, vile NRA nut blames EVERYONE and EVERYTHING except the GUNS."
.
Oh, but the Daily News is kind of a liberal paper, you say.
.
Then there was the old reliable right-wing spit-stirrer, the NY Post:
GUN NUT! NRA loon in bizarre rant over Newtown
http://www.nypost.com/archives/covers/;j...
.
Remember, they're not squeamish. They defended Bernie Goetz, and they just published that photo of the guy about to get hit by a subway. When the right wing has lost the New York Post, something momentous has happened.

What's the big deal? Many of the Beloit schools already have an armed Police Liaison Officer assigned and they are excellent resources and contribute much to community/police relationships. People are acting as if this is a new concept!

hmmm....we guard judges, courthouses, airports, federal buildings, rail road yards, sporting events, power plants, movie stars, musicians, sports stars and politicians, ports, banks, prisoners, military bases no matter where in the US they may be, stock market trading floors, train stations, oil refineries, mines, precious metals/gems, and I'm sure many other mundane places I'm not thinking of, all with armed people. But yea you are right, it's a pretty crazy idea to consider including schools on that list.

chad_vader, Fact based, Obama was reelected by the mass population of low informed voters. No name calling, just truth.

I think it's a great idea,not to mention security,the kids would think twice about bringing guns/knives/drugs/gang activities or anything else at school,i think over all it's a good idea,for just a few of the things i've mentioned!!
Maybe the kids could go to school and learn,like there suppose to be doing,and not worry so much about things i mentioned above...

And MBHammer, your mentality is why issues like this do not get discussed in a reasonable manner, both in our communities and in Washington. Instead of writing about a solution, you go to mindless,easy and useless name calling.

Id rather see an armed guard than an armed killer in our schools.

LMC-that same poll says that 64% of americans think it very effective and somewhat effective to ban the sale of assault and semiautomatic guns to stop mass killings. Pretty scary given the fact that most pistols and hunting rifles sold are of the semiautomatic variety. The same poll also says that 84% of americans believe that increased government spending on mental health screening and treatment to stop mass killings.

HighRoad, I see Barack-O-Clause is your hero.

I really thought the NRA would come out of their week of silence and say, "Enough is Enough" and start lending some credible help to curb this problem. I am shocked to see their answer to gun violence is to use more guns. The GOP has got to be puking on their shoes since the NRA is a monster lobby in Granpas Old Party. This will only help turn more of Middle America away from the far right leaning Republican party gun nuts. I got my first BB gun at 7. At 9 years my first .22 . At 12 I could legally hunt with supervision and got my first shot gun and deer rifle. Supervision in Wisconsin is in site or ear shot of an adult, not necessarily right next to while hunting. At 14 I was legal to hunt by myself. I could not begin to count how many times at 14 I walked or biked to the edge of town with guns and ammo to meet my other 14 year old buddies for a day of hunting. I can remember my friends bringing guns to school(with permission and without bullets) for show and tell. Guns were never locked up, many of my friend’s parents were proud of their guns and they were displayed in glass front cabinet for all to see. Mine were kept in my bedroom closet. That was not that long ago, but it was a different time. I have high school age kids that own guns and hunt. I would have to say they are even better shots then I am. Sadly though I will not let them hunt or use them without direct supervision even though it is still perfectly legal for them to do so. All the guns are in a safe and only I have the combination. Like I said, we are in a different time. Something is not working like it used to and needs to be corrected somehow.

Gallup poll: 64% of Americans believe having at least one school official armed at each school would be somewhat effective or very effective.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/159422/stop-s...

fear your 1:36 am post reads like maybe you were hitting the bottle or otherwise impaired.

Billie, this is not one of your lucid moments.

If this serves as a deterent and saves the life of one child per year, is it not worth it!? And the icing?...The NRA will fund it!! Yah, right! Wait until Lapierre determines what it will cost them. No deal!

And the hate mongers on the left are trying not to stir things up, eh Gary? Yeah, right.

I noticed that no one in the media or the left, pardon the repetition, was upset when Senator Boxer of CA suggested National Guard troops at schools. Aside from the fact that those troops would be armed with assault rifles, there is little difference between national guard troops and armed police at school. Except for the rate of pay difference for union police and non-union troops, that is. But since Senator Boxer is a Democrat and the NRA guy is evil incarnate according to the left, the Senator is always credible and should be respected while the NRA flak is always incredible and to be ridiculed by them, no matter how similar their proposals my be.

With the left using this horrible tragedy as a wedge to pass their longstanding desire for gun control, ignoring all other factors such as the glorification of violence in Hollywood movies (since Hollywood is such a huge source of income for Democrats) and feigning outrage at every point raised by the right, is it any wonder that it is impossible to have a sane conversation about guns. When the left drops its "my way or the highway" attitudes, perhaps we can have a sane conversation. Not that I expect they ever will.

Someone needs to find out why the young people of today can't handle life. I went to safe schools in the 60's. In kindergarten one kid brought in a WWII hand grenade, diffused for show and tell and no one even questioned or thought about it in a negative way.

The hate mongers on the far right
have many people so stirred up
that it is impossible to have a sane conversation
about responsible gun ownership.

Read this article. It's very good.

http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/...

Key finding of the 1994 assault weapon ban.

--The ban has failed to reduce the average number of victims per gun murder incident or multiple gunshot wound victims.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles1/173405.t...

The NRA is a joke. Rather hypocritical how these morons claim to be for limited government, and the GOP (who claims to stand for the same thing, laughable, I know) fully embraces these idiots. Yeah, real limited government to spend about $60 billion to arm every school in America, with an armed security guard. Talk about the definition of BIG government, and oppression.
.
I love how the NRA president then makes this absurd statement how you just need a good guy with a gun to shoot the bad guy.
RIIIIGHT
Of course the shooter was wearing full body armor, and was armed to the tooth...NRA-gun nut solution. No problem, you simply OVER POWER them. We just have a freaking military commando in every school. Complete with full body armor, fully automatic weapon, and well, if some deranged nut gunman has more power then they do, then we will arm him with a bazooka, and post tanks outside every school in America. Oh, and we'll also arm all those 5'2"ft, 100 lbs kindergarten teachers to, and get them some body armor withit. By the time the NRA has their wish, we will have every teacher armed, a trained military commando inside every building, a few tanks surrounding the building, and we might also need a security fence, complete with gun look out towers. No worries though, your children will ALL be safe folks, because that's what we care about, and oh btw, we give our deepest sympathies to all the residents of Delaware there in New Haven, or New London, or whatever the name of that place was.

Strange, I search mass shooting and get this timeline; I search school shootings and I get a different list. I won't add the school shooting list because that will annoy people and I am out of time.
.
If the NRA is so ignorant that it believes an armed guard in every school will solve the issue so what?!?!?
.
If congress/the american public are equally ignorant than we, including my 2 young children, are in trouble.
.
There is not one solution to this problem. However, at a minimum, starting YESTERDAY, anyone wanting to buy a gun, ANY GUN, should be made to complete similar course work that is required to get a driver's license.
.
6 week course prior to buying a gun, ANY GUN. Why not, people can still have their guns but need to be educated first.
.
I just think of the CNN reporter who, after the Colorado shooting bought a gun similar to the one used a week ago. He admits to not being a "gun person", has little knowledge of guns, has only shot guns as part of news stories and in one day, bought a high-powered, assault style rifle.
.
If not a reporter, why would a person, out of the blue, buy that type of gun? We can all admit that is an unusual "first gun" but if no criminal record, NO PROBLEM!
.
YIKES!!!

Jonesboro, Ark., March 24, 1998: Two boys, ages 11 and 13, fired on their middle school from woods, killing four girls and a teacher and wounding 11 others.

Austin, Texas, August 1, 1966: A University of Texas student and former Marine killed 16 people and wounded 32 others in and around the campus. He was shot dead by a police officer.

Bath Township, Mich., May 18, 1927: Forty-five people were killed, including 38 elementary students, and 58 injured in three bombings by a school board treasurer enraged by higher taxes in the deadliest act of violence at a U.S. school.

December 5, 2007. A 19-year-old boy, Robert Hawkins, shot up a department store in the Westroads Mall in Omaha, NE. Hawkins killed 9 people and wounded 4 before killing himself. The semi-automatic rifle he used was stolen from his stepfather’s house.

April 16, 2007. Virginia Tech became the site of the deadliest school shooting in US history when a student, Seung-Hui Choi, gunned down 56 people. Thirty-two people died in the massacre.

February 12, 2007. In Salt Lake City’s Trolley Square Mall, 5 people were shot to death and 4 others were wounded by 18-year-old gunman Sulejman Talović. One of the victims was a 16-year-old boy.

October 2, 2006. An Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster, PA was gunned down by 32-year-old Charles Carl Roberts, Roberts separated the boys from the girls, binding and shooting the girls. 5 young girls died, while 6 were injured. Roberts committed suicide afterward.

March 25, 2006. Seven died and 2 were injured by 28-year-old Kyle Aaron Huff in a shooting spree through Capitol Hill in Seattle, WA. The massacre was the worst killing in Seattle since 1983.

March 21, 2005. Teenager Jeffrey Weise killed his grandfather and his grandfather’s girlfriend before opening fire on Red Lake Senior High School, killing 9 people on campus and injuring 5. Weise killed himself.

March 12, 2005. A Living Church of God meeting was gunned down by 44-year-old church member Terry Michael Ratzmann at a Sheraton hotel in Brookfield, WI. Ratzmann was thought to have had religious motivations, and killed himself after executing the pastor, the pastor’s 16-year-old son, and 7 others. Four were wounded.

July 8, 2003. Doug Williams, a Lockheed Martin employee, shot up his plant in Meridian, MS in a racially-motivated rampage. He shot 14 people, most of them African American, and killed 7 before killing himself.

December 26, 2000. Edgewater Technology employee Michael “Mucko” McDermott shot and killed seven of his coworkers at the office in Wakefield, MA. McDermott claimed he had “traveled back in time and killed Hitler and the last 6 Nazis.” He was sentenced to 7 consecutive life sentences.

September 15, 1999. Larry Gene Ashbrook opened fire on a Christian rock concert and teen prayer rally at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, TX. He killed 7 people and wounded 7 others, almost all teenagers. Ashbrook committed suicide.

July 29, 1999. Mark Orrin Barton, 44, murdered his wife and two children with a hammer before shooting up two Atlanta day trading firms. Barton, a day trader, was believed to be motivated by huge monetary losses. He killed 12 including his family and injured 13 before killing himself.

April 20, 1999. In the deadliest high school shooting in US history, teenagers Eric Harris and Dylan Kiebold shot up Columbine High School in Littleton, CO. They killed 13 people and wounded 21 others. They killed themselves after the massacre.

August 3, 2010. Omar S. Thornton, 34, gunned down Hartford Beer Distributor in Manchester, CT after getting caught stealing beer. Nine were killed, including Thornton, and two were injured.

November 5, 2009. Forty-three people were shot by Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan at the Fort Hood army base in Texas. Hasan reportedly yelled “Allahu Akbar!” before opening fire, killing 13 and wounding 29 others.

April 3, 2009. Jiverly Wong, 41, opened fire at an immigration center in Binghamton, New York before committing suicide. He killed 13 people and wounded 4.

March 29, 2009. Eight people died in a shooting at the Pinelake Health and Rehab nursing home in Carthage, NC. The gunman, 45-year-old Robert Stewart, was targeting his estranged wife who worked at the home and survived. Stewart was sentenced to life in prison.

February 14, 2008. Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University, killing 6 and wounding 21. The gunman shot and killed himself before police arrived. It was the fifth-deadliest university shooting in US history.

February 7, 2008. Six people died and two were injured in a shooting spree at the City Hall in Kirkwood, Missouri. The gunman, Charles Lee Thornton, opened fire during a public meeting after being denied construction contracts he believed he deserved. Thornton was killed by police.

December 11, 2012. On Tuesday, 22-year-old Jacob Tyler Roberts killed 2 people and himself with a stolen rifle in Clackamas Town Center, Oregon. His motive is unknown.

September 27, 2012. Five were shot to death by 36-year-old Andrew Engeldinger at Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis, MN. Three others were wounded. Engeldinger went on a rampage after losing his job, ultimately killing himself.

August 5, 2012. Six Sikh temple members were killed when 40-year-old US Army veteran Wade Michael Page opened fire in a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Four others were injured, and Page killed himself.

July 20, 2012. During the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, CO, 24-year-old James Holmes killed 12 people and wounded 58. Holmes was arrested outside the theater.

May 29, 2012. Ian Stawicki opened fire on Cafe Racer Espresso in Seattle, WA, killing 5 and himself after a citywide manhunt.

April 6, 2012. Jake England, 19, and Alvin Watts, 32, shot 5 black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in racially motivated shooting spree. Three died.

April 2, 2012. A former student, 43-year-old One L. Goh killed 7 people at Oikos University, a Korean Christian college in Oakland, CA. The shooting was the sixth-deadliest school massacre in the US and the deadliest attack on a school since the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.

February 27, 2012. Three students were killed by Thomas “TJ” Lane, another student, in a rampage at Chardon High School in Chardon, OH. Three others were injured.

October 14, 2011. Eight people died in a shooting at Salon Meritage hair salon in Seal Beach, CA. The gunman, 41-year-old Scott Evans Dekraai, killed six women and two men dead, while just one woman survived. It was Orange County’s deadliest mass killing.

September 6, 2011. Eduardo Sencion, 32, entered an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, NV and shot 12 people. Five died, including three National Guard members.

January 8, 2011. Former Rep. Gabby Giffords (D-AZ) was shot in the head when 22-year-old Jared Loughner opened fire on an event she was holding at a Safeway market in Tucson, AZ. Six people died, including Arizona District Court Chief Judge John Roll, one of Giffords’ staffers, and a 9-year-old girl. 19 total were shot. Loughner has been sentenced to seven life terms plus 140 years, without parole.

This is the dumbest idea yet. First, every chance you get the claim is "public education costs too much", "greedy union thugs", cut education etc...
.
Now, as education services get cut, you know counselors, social workers, aides, etc... The solution is to spend money on armed guards or, better yet, the solution is to arm the greedy union thug teachers.
.
First, why would we assume that the same personality that wants to teach elementary school art would be comfortable carry a gun.
.
Second, why would we assume that a man with an assault style rifle would be stopped by an armed guard or art teacher with a gun.
.
Third, do we also spend money placing armed guards in every movie theatre, store, etc... What type of country do we live in? What type do we want to live in?
.
The NRA did a nice job of making this story about SCHOOL shootings and changing the context to only include school shootings.
.
The problem is, these guns are TOO EASY to access and TOO POWERFUL to be legal.
.
What about the largest mass shooting, Virginia Tech? Guards in every dorm and every classroom?
.
Gun restriction is needed. Semi-automatic assault rifles are a problem. School funding for SW's, Counselor's, SPED being cut is a problem. Larger class sizes is a problem. Lack of mental health care is a problem. Lack of insurance that covers mental health care is a problem.
.
Armed guards will only offer a false sense of security. It will not fix the REAL problem.

If a semi-automatic rifle and an assault rifle are not the same, will someone please explain the difference? I do not understand why anyone with no intention of assaulting another person needs such a weapon. Not trying to be sarcastic - I truly don't get it.

wonders - the NRA is an organization that constantly fights ANY regulation that may keep guns out of the hands of those it should. And they are not a liberal organization last time I looked. Pointing fingers at just one issue, instead of looking at ALL that contributes to such a tragedy ( such as the gun owners (the mother)responsibility to keep the guns inaccessible to her mentally ill son, and discussion of our failed mental illness treatments)is what makes this country a failure at resolving issues.

I am going to go out on a limb here and blames liberals for the mess we are in. You can’t access mental records because it involves patient’s rights, brought on by liberals. A person that can legally carry a weapon cannot have it on school grounds, brought on by liberals. If you try to blame a person who is mentally unfit the ACLU steps in to “protect that person”, ACLU is a liberal group.

Again guns are not the issue, having them in the hands of those that should not have them is. Of all the people I know that own a gun, not one of them has shot it at a person. And yes many own the dreaded “assault rifle” even though that is not what they really are. Semi-automatic rifle is not an assault rifle. But no matter how many times you say it some will NEVER get it.

This is lunacy. If his is actually necessary that simply shows how badly we need more stringent laws in this naion resricing weapon types, menal evals, waiting period.
What a sad state of how paranoid and barbaric our society has become. The day there are armed educators is he day my kids become home schooled. These people tell you tha the nation will never be safe intill they arm all three hundred million citixens. What a bunch of paranoid freaks!!

I'd rather see things being tried than people just throwing up their arms and giving up. Schools are supposed to be a safe learning environment. Maybe this idea won't work for every school out there, but give it a try. An armed officer will at least deter and hopefully prevent more tragedy.