Ezoner, why is it OK for Big Oil to raise the price of gasoline to make more profit, but not OK for government to raise fuel taxes to fix and improve our roads?

What I take issue with is the hue and cry that people have every time mention is made of raising fuel taxes, when fuel taxes are such a small part of the cost of gas to begin with. The 30.9 cents Wisconsin takes out and the 18 cents the feds take out per gallon is about 10-15% of the price of gas, or about what Ezoner cites as the percentage of Big Oil's profit.

So maybe we kick up fuel taxes a few percent - Big Oil gets to still make a profit, we get better roads, and we get to skip this whole toll road malarkey.

JR -- is it illegal someway for the oil companies to make a profit??? The oil companies are in business to make a profit. What you see is the $ amount and not the percentage. You are upset that they make a profit of less than 10%. Yet when McD;s makes 60-80% profit -- thats ok. Its not the $$ amount that should have you comcerned.

If WisDOT uses tolls on newly-built highways (a direct Madison to Chicago tollway, for example), I'm not opposed to it, particularly if it allows a project to move forward that otherwise wouldn't have.

What I'm opposed to is taking a highway that's already free, and turning it into a toll highway, simply because a bunch of people whine that their gas is 5 cents too expensive.

I commute 80 miles a day. The 30.9 cents per gallon Wisconsin takes out is nothing compared to the total cost of the gas, maintenance, and other expenses for driving that much.

Big Oil sends prices up and down by a dollar a gallon all the time. What happens? A bit of whining. Raise the gas tax by 5 cents a gallon, and everyone goes ballistic. Why does Big Oil get to take my money, but WisDOT can't to fix some potholes?

You want to see what saving 10 cents at the pump does? Take a drive to Michigan sometime. The state highways might be OK, but the side roads and city streets are deteriorating horribly. Many counties are reverting paved roads back to gravel for lack of funds. Badly needed projects to ease congestion (like 6-laning I-94 and I-96) don't happen. In fact, they had to play financial games to get enough to match the federal funding. Otherwise, they would've lost the 18 cents per gallon the Feds take at the pump.

Nobody likes taxes. But I don't like to drive around on crumbling, unsafe roads either, and unexpected $1000 bills to fix my suspension hurts a lot more than an extra 5-10 cents at the pump.

One other thing swiss if and when I do tail gate I'm finding it unavoidable because of congestion & choices being made by other drivers. Only way I see it not happening during certain times is if you avoid the route entirely which defeats the purpose of owning a car because we couldn't get our destination. That or drive super slow like some senior citizens are doing but I see this also creating road rage in most drivers.
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I don't know if tolls are a solutions but i do see a way the state could profit from it. If only they could do it somehow at least amount of expense for installation or interruption of regular flow.

have this huge single file line which goes on in right lane for miles and no one lets you in. If you speed up or try to speed around it you have these anal retentive highway or state patrol who pull you over for every little thing without knowing all the facts. And we all know cops treat what they hear from people as heresy and only conclude what they see themselves.

sry for delay was talking to a contractor. Swiss, tailgating is a point of view. I basically allow amount of space in front of me the state tells you to. The old rule of thumb was if you're traveling 50 you should have five car lengths in front of you. If you're traveling 60 six car lengths and vice versa for other speeds. I'm finding you can't do this during day on i90 traveling south or north bound between border to madison. Only way I see it possible is if drive well below speed limit. Flip side of this everyone is aggressively passing or honking at you. I've even had some drive up tight on my bumper and turn their brights on the entire trip from madison to janesville. I also see this same effect if I drive 60 or 65 but more so at 60.

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I don't drive on anything between these two locations other than interstate so i can't speak for that. I do see what you're talking about though.

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As far as the semi trucks go I am aware of the cost they pay. But there is a growing safety problem with mention problems i specified earlier. You get some semi truck drivers who think they can drive faster than others and some who are driving slower. More often than not most appear to be driving faster than 70 and constantly in passing lane. Its going on so much that if you leave north side of janesville and travel to racine street exit east from interstate 90 during normal business hours you have to stay in right lane that entire time at a speed of about 60 mph (sometimes less). Its not all the time but most. Ordinarily when you come up on a car or truck in right who is driving 58 your first idea is to pass them because your exit is 3 miles or less down the road. If you do that on this particular route you'll find the cars in right lane bumper to bumper traveling at that speed & have insufficient time to get around or get over before racine street east. Also racine street east is a sharp turn exit which shouldn't be driven faster than 20mph which makes it even more frightening. Then there is the visual problem. Vehicles are so bumper to bumper between these two exists during business hours with so many trucks you can't see in front of you. Problem with this is if there should be an accident and a dead stand still ahead some drivers don't allow themselves adequate time to stop. If you're behind a driver like this who has a semi truck either in front or behind you run the risk of a serious vehicle pileup. Some might say just stay in right lane and drive slower then. Problem with that is traffic bunches up way back making things bumper to bumper and also making so so people can't merge on from either 1st or 2nd janesville exits at 14 and 51/59. You

Where's all the money? Do you think your taxes are ever going to do down?

egghead: Do you realize who much each semi has to pay a year in road taxes?
First there is the Hiway use tax.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/091116/pd...
Then there is the IFTA International Fuel Tax Agreement.
http://tax.illinois.gov/taxforms/misc/mf...

Also remember everything that you have and or want was shipped on a truck!

egghead - So, you're an admitted tail-gater. That could be your problem.

Recall the tolls....

Fear -- we disagree -- its the unintended consequences of government regulation and taxation again. Think about this. People WILL avoid the toll toads, just to not pay. This will deteriorate the secondary roads, cause additional accidents and deaths, will have minimal impact on the transportation budget. Once again, the government will over estimate the revenue and indirect cost increases. This is a p*& poor solution and willnot work. Have you people driven on IL roads?? Thats what you want?? The roads in IL are some of the worst I have ever been on. Especially within a 100 miles of Chicago in any direction.

Imback you can also drive through them and pay later. They'll send you bill in the mail.

Actually the damages to our air from pollution travel elsewhere whereas the road damage remains in one spot. I don't know the actual ratio of damage being caused to our roads from outsiders versus local use but I'll bet its high in comparison. Usually when that ratio is high its a no brainer as far as tolls go & decision to install them.

Fear

Should start having sky tolls for commercial jets that use WI airspace that pollute it?

And do it after the lanes are widened also make a couple extra leading up to them. Make it automated with transponder like illinois has so you don't have to stop completely.

Yeah that's what I'm saying just stick one between us and rockford & another on 94 between gurnee & kenosha.

I would support it strictly for interstate highways, simply because the tourists from IL and other states that use and damage the roadways. Those of us that drive and live in WI can find ways around the HWY if we dont want to pay the toll.

Isn't this what the WHELL TAX IS FOR???
Double dipping?

This a just a scam to nail Walker for something else. I can see when he's running for re-election in 2014 they'll all be whining "Walker put in toll roads-he's giving all the money to the Koch bros."

Also set a mandatory speed limit for semi trucks & make them sit in one lane its getting crazy out there to the point there are so many you can see in front of you to avoid an accident.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. Lower our stinking taxes & let the fibs pay for the mess. Dang it these roads are heavily traveled talk about turning your back on a winning lottery ticket. Go fly a kite uncle jesse & leave daisy behind.

NO NO NO .

smith1 - why are other states selling the tollroads to other countries if its working so well for them? I could list all the examples but its easier for you to google.

saxcat70 I agree the corruption as this is Rock Co. and Walwoth Co. want to do this and the snake in Madison would make a law that it is his money. Oh I forgot he will be gone soon.....

I myself had written to the government powers here in Wisconsin pertaining to this very subject matter(Toll).At that time they didn't feel it was a good idea.That time period the valume of traffice was being monitored. What a revenue that is being lost every hour of the day.Our State could become debet free. All with the toll road. Other State are doing it!

no, not Except out of state drivers that don't fill up in WI. My point was WE ALL benefit, so we ALL PAY. they may not fill up here, but they're coming here to visit your business, spend money at your store, plunk down money in local economies and the millions of other ways out of state tourism benefits everybody that lives in this state.

Tired -- sounds like you should move to IL into the land of tax and spend.

Not only no, but HELL NO to toll roads. It is alarming how easily seduced some people are by yet another tax. Illinois is not a state Wisconsin should be trying to mimic.

Under a three year span with Doyle.
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"The raids on the Compensation fund were part of a pattern of raids on segregated funds, including over $1.3 billion from the state’s transportation fund. The state then borrows to fill the gaps in those funds, something it cannot do for the state’s general fund. The 2009-2011 budget authorizes $1.3 billion in borrowing for the transportation fund. As a result of all this borrowing, only 88 cents of every dollar collected for transportation actually goes to spending on transportation needs."

How can we not build a toll road - the system we have now is designed & destined to fail. construction costs go up more and more every year, couple that with fuel standards imposed on automakers meaning less gas is purchased = more money to maintain yet less money is available. Additionally why not ask users to pay for it? Why shouldn't out of state drivers help pay to use? They can literally come here every week to go to cabin or Dells or wherever & never pay a dime for roads - assuming they fill up in IL or MI yet we pay almost $4 to run to Rockford & pay for their roads in addition to paying our gas tax here when we get gas. Makes no sense.

I avoid tool roads wherever and whenever possible. Trucks do the same. I assume that this impacts the condition and life of non-toll roads and secondary roads. So once again, taxing and regulation loses. People will find a way to work around the taxes and regulations. You cannot and should not tax people to death as they do today. Its time to get rid of the idiots in all offices.

"EVERYBODY pays" except for the out of state drivers who don't fill up their gas tank in Wisconsin.

A toll is just another tax. I already pay tax for roads when I pay tax on my gas! If a toll is added then they should remove the tax on gas! And by the way there is not enough funding from the tax on gas because the republicans removed the automatic yearly increases on the gas tax! They stopped that tax and now roads are not funded properly!

So now Janesville has a wheel tax, and the county wants to get in on the money orgy so on top of the wheel tax lets start charging tolls. What is the state doing with the $75+ bucks a year people pay them for registration? If they charge tolls, we still won't see better taken care of roadways, the gov't will pocket the money and someone will be getting rich off it, not us.

How many years do they figure before the tollways would pay for themselves? 10 years? So 10 years of lack of maintenance would catch up... they'd deem it too cost worthy to maintain and do what a lot of other states are doing...outsourcing.. sell the tollway to foreigners. Then the tolls would increase every year while the road conditions decrease. We dont have the brains in power to maintain roads, and you think they can do better with a tollway?? HAHA! It isnt more money we need, we need people that know how to handle the money we have. End of story.

Maybe our tax dollars can fund the building of the toll roads, and then the state can sell them to china and china can make some major bank off us....seems to work for illinois.

Wise up people! Toll roads do not work. Just look at Illinois. They have multiple toll ways and yet their roads are worse then they are in Wisconsin, not to mention Illinois is in worse financial status than Wisconsin. Say we build just one tollbooth in Beloit of all places. Those toll ways aren't cheap. A good estimate to build a toll way station, $5 million. Now where is that $5million going to come from? Let's even say we have the extra $5 million to spend. Now you have to charge 5 million cars $1 before you even pay off toll way station. After that there's the toll way workers wages. The numbers just don't add up. It's essentially like paying someone to dig a hole and paying someone else to fill it in. By the way, the Illinois Toll way system isn't even a state job, it's a private sector job, and hence where the corruption comes in. And yes, I fully enjoy driving around the Rockton Toll way (Rockton exit to State Street Exit and vice versa.) I did math on that too and I save money even though you have to drive a little farther.

"What you'll likely see is both, toll roads AND an increase in the state gasoline tax. The state will have to pay for the snowballing debt and corporate kickbacks somehow."

And don't forget the state will also have to pay scheduled pay increases for ineffective teachers......

Gotta love that good ole' "big government"....only in America!

Be careful of what you wish for. I was born in Illinois and their tolls were supposed to be temporary. What a laugh! Instead they keep raising the cost of the tolls.

mouse-Do you have any idea how many regularly
ride the train now from Chicago to Milwaukee or Milwaukee to Chicago? What do you expect the Madison train to have for ridership? I love to ride the train when I can (who wouldn't) but this is so much money for so little return. This train will mainly be for the 1%ers.

If toll roads are implemented, people who make over $250,000 per year should be exempt from tolls so they can use that money to create new jobs.

I almost gagged to death with that sarcasm, but don't rejoice yet, my conservative friends. I'm still breathing!

baegucb had the right idea with his post. Let's allow Illinois to extend their iPass system on I-90 and I-94 but not require Wisconsin vehicles to have the sensors. No cash toll booths or employees will be added. We give Illinois a 10% cut for the construction cost and managing the iPass billing, and Illinois drivers will increase our road revenue without anyone slowing down to pay tolls.

Toll? Perhaps. Learn to manage current program monies first, and then talk tollway.

RhetoricAndFalderal said, "Toll roads or gas tax pick one, but not both."

Surprised to hear that coming from a tried and true conservative like you, RAF. Why not do the conservative thing and PRIVATIZE roads? All of them. I can't believe you think the government can actually do ANYTHING better than private industry. Are you sure you've thought this through?

Don't add the tolls just increase traffic fines to help pay for the roads

Welcome to the real world Wisconsin....

The biggest downside as I see it is that we will have to give unlimited state tax credits to all Democratic representatives for their trips to Rockford,Illinois-we can't afford that!!!!

Wisconsin open for Business.
I thought we didn't want to follow Illinois path?
Give us the train!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, and I will vote against and lobby others to vote against anybody who is in favor of toll roads.

I don't buy this notion of "shifting the burden to those that use the interstate system" because EVERYBODY benefits from the interstate system. EVERYBODY. I don't care if you drive or not or you sit in your house all day long. From the cloths you buy, to the food on your table and the materials to build your home and every other possible thing you can imagine you use on a daily basis, ALL made easier, more accessible and for cheaper prices because of our road system. EVERYBODY pays.

Another revenue for Walkers buddies, to spend at free will?
Maybe the train wasn't a bad idea RAF?

Toll roads or gas tax pick one, but not both.

We don't need new "revenue streams". We need to live within our means. We also need to stop charging fees that are suppose to reduce taxes that never seem to be reduced. Enough of the shell games.

If the state allows toll roads, Walworth county will be the first to get one (or several). When they let the counties have the .005 sales tax increase,
Walworth county adopted it before the ink was dry. I'm sure they need to enlarge the jail or increase the Sheriff's staff or more court rooms. We got alot of room out in the county "Complex" that needs filling.

And how many millions of dollars will the state have to pay back to the feds for the highway funds on roads converted from freeway to tollway???

What you'll likely see is both, toll roads AND an increase in the state gasoline tax. The state will have to pay for the snowballing debt and corporate kickbacks somehow.

Before anyone even thinks about supporting a toll plan, I think we should demand our legislators give detailed information on where the money they're currently collecting for the gas tax is actually going. The excise tax on motor vehicle fuel is 30.9¢ per gallon. So if you have a 20 gallon gas tank, you're paying the state $6.18 every time you fill up. Take a look at this and tell me that they still need to create toll roads...
.
http://www.revenue.wi.gov/ise/mvfcons.pd...
.
A little sickening isn't it? Are we really supposed to believe they cannot maintain the roads with the billion dollars a year we're already paying?

Long over due

The problem with toll roads is that the state will not get rid of the high gas taxes that we pay now. All it comes down to is another tax. Quit using the gas taxes for things other than road building and maintenaince such as bike trails. Road taxes should be use for roads not bike trails!

The only way I would support a toll road is if it lowered the state sales would not go up and state sales need to be lowered if there is to be a toll road.

There has to be a reasonable way to raise funds to maintain and repair roads. Tolls are an excellent way of doing that. The users pay for the road they are using.

If it means lowering the gas tax I'm fine with it. Shift the burden of funding the interstate system to the people who use the interstate rather then the people who buy gasoline in the state.

No other state in their right mind should follow anything that Illinois does.

Go ahead and toll! And then follow the money to see how the money is spent! It likely will not be spent on road repair-it will be spent on something else. If you dont like the toll-good luck in removing it-its like any other govt agency-they will exist in perpituity and spent on pet projects for decades to come!

Let me guess whoever thought this was a great idea also thought the Beloit casino project was a great idea. Thousands will come & we'll tax the hell out the them. The WI way! It's getting to the point the govt needs to realize you can't squeeze blood out of turnip. IL doubled it's tolls & it's insane. I had $35 in tolls in January. At least I can expense mine to my employer.

I love it, Let's end a Tax, so we can charge a toll. and just like IL, let's sell the rights to an out of country enterprise and funnel more dollars out of the US.

I am in favor of the concept of toll roads. I am terrified of the corruption that inevitably comes with it.

Great...this would be 5 years of interstate construction. Dumb idea... I think they should get people in charge that can manage finances instead of a way to keep piling on more money. The good thing is there is pretty much a different hwy to take everywhere... no need to take the interstate if they decide to charge.

Sure. Go ahead and toll. Just give state residents a free pass. Sometimes for amusement I count the number of out of state plates vs. Wisconsin. It usually runs 10-1 in favor of out of state. Besides, anyone coming north is used to Illinois tolls.