Damn PJG.... NOW YOU'VE GONE AND DONE IT!
RAF WILL TAKE HIS VINYL BOMBER JACKET OFF AND HAVE A FIT.

RhetoricAndFalderal said, "I think those that oppose mining should at least be somewhat consistent. Stop using items produced by the products obtained by these mines. Typically the same people in opposition to these and other things have no sense of consistency in positions other than being obstinate."

I think those that oppose intelligence should at least be somewhat consistent. Stop using items produced by intelligent people. Typically the same people in opposition to these and other things have no sense of consistency in positions other than being stupid.

Joey is little more than a modern day communist-style centralized planning neocon whose mining bill is much like most of the bills Walker and his rubber stamps have rammed through over the past year. They are meant to defang local ordinances and disempower citizens under the guise of uniform laws and jobs.

Misleading statements hmmm. I guess Joe wants us to know that there are protections,
What Joe hopes we don't know is that although The bill requires compliance with groundwater standards that this bill lowers those standards. All the things he claims as protections are there, and all of them are weakened by this bill. AB 426 would relax numerous environmental standards involving wetlands, groundwater, rock disposal, and would reduce the level of public participation in the review process. Misleading statements addressed Or created? I find his statements disingenuous at best. Just another attempt to distort facts His statement "The most important thing we must realize is that this bill does not authorize a mining permit. It only separates iron ore mines from other metallic ores and streamlines the process." is very telling. To me it shows how Gogebic Taconite which almost certainly wrote this bill has received special treatment. Which isn't surprising as Gogebic Taconite executives have contributed heavily to republican lawmakers Including Walker and the Fitzgerald brothers. He
fails to mention the treaty rights violations created by this bill that are currently being investigated by the federal government or the proximity of the mine to and it's possible impact on Copper Falls state park.
Wisconsin is open for business again appears to mean Wisconsin is for sale to the highest bidder. I guess in this case that would be Gogebic Taconite...

Retired Airforce--so, anti-mine types should live by their word and not use products that have come from mine components.

OK. You don't like government programs. So, I suggest you stop using your government issued retirement account (assuming that you are, in fact, a retired airforce service person...)

RAF..... YOU NEED TO START SOME WHERE.
MAY I SUGGEST BOYCOTTING KOCH PRODUCTS..... AND DUE TO HIS INTENTIONS TO POLLUTE....... RECALL WALKER?

I think those that oppose mining should at least be somewhat consistent. Stop using items produced by the products obtained by these mines. Typically the same people in opposition to these and other things have no sense of consistency in positions other than being obstinate.

Ezoner....... sorry your on are distorting it again.
If Walker believed the polloution would not occur, the he had no need to jump so fast.
He got his pollution pen out and signed at speed, knowing the end results are not good for our State.
RECALL WALKER.... BOYCOTT KOCH PRODUCTS!

Now this is the kind of fair and balanced column that I like. Knilans gives both sides of the argument - the dumb-enviromentally-concerned-commie-strawman argument....versus the RIGHT PATRIOTIC PRO-WEALTHY JOB CREATOR ARGUMENT.
...
Thank you Gazette for providing this thoughtful point-counterpoint by Patriot Knilans.

Ohh come on mouse-- spare me the diatribe about the earth, You are one of the same far left nutballs, that claim they support pro-earth policies and then turn around and use TP down the septic system. Worse yet, you buy the cell phones and are using a computer that pollutes the earth. Gold mined to put into your cell phone and used in the manufacture of the computer chips. Imported NEO magnets from china in any electric motor used today. When you live under a set of branches and burn only wood from a campfire -- (oh wait) the burning leaves pollute the air..... Better find a bear to sleep against in the winter. The problem is all environmentalists (except the extreme ones) are hypocrites.

Excellent post onedayatatime. N. Wisconsin/ Upper MI main source of revenue is tourism, and I don't people understand the immense amount of money people spend to experience that. I'm certainly not anti-mining, and there may be room for mining and tourism, but there is always a price. The question is, is the taconite mine worth the long term risks? I don't know.

Cha Cha, cha cheater!
Some people respect chemicals and the earth....... Walker and the Kochs do not.
They have proven that. If they were more truthful and abbiding, then Walker did not need to make Wisconsin a "FREE TO POLLUTE STATE".

Hey Joe, what you doin' with that bribe in your hand. Once your leader is in the pokey, don't expect the Kochs to be funding you anymore.

Hey Joe, is that still a tourist area up there? Where's the concern? What is the acceptable ground water pollution below your "significantly detrimental"?

http://interested-party.blogspot.com/201...
Koch bought his position on cancer board, and he bought Walker to back him.
Think twice before you back Walker polloution in Wisconsin.
He attacks your kids education...... now the water they drink.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/04..............
act now ..... RECALL WALKER....... BOYCOTT KOCH PRODUCTS........ SAVE WISCONSIN!!!!!!!!!!

It is painfully obvious you dont live in Northern Wi. I use to live in Janesville and was so happy to move away from the congestion, crime, noise, traffic and diversity. The few people I have met here that support the mine are not the typical Northern Wisconsin resident.
We have a life style here we don't want destroyed. If people want that kind of life, move away. I am sure you can find an over-populated, crime ridden area somewhere.

jv93 asked, "Poobah, what about the above is NOT asking for a handout?"

All of it.

"Joe When are you going to care about me the average person in Janesville. Do something for me. Stop caring about some huge company. DO SOMETHING FOR ME. I have not seen you at one event in Janesville or make yourself open to us who vote. Why is that." Poobah, what about the above is NOT asking for a handout? It's a pathetic hands outstretched, feed me, do for me, give me free things type of attitude typical of many Americans who view their government as cradle to grave provider. Also, I went on to point out how Rep Knilans is perfectly accessible. If belman has some burning question all he or she has to do is pick up the phone. Easy enough.

jv93, there are many issues that people need help with and turn to their state and federal representatives for assistance. All belman asked for in his comment was for Knilans to be more accessible to his constituents. He wasn't seeking handouts.

I recall a couple of important discussions between the committee and common citizens during last month's meeting in Hurley. One discussion regarding jobs I recall concerning who would be working the mining jobs had revealed Gogebic Taconite would hire a percentage of local workers and the majority of workers would be coming from out of state due to the inexperience of the Wisconsin workforce related to mining. I believe I heard a great deal of employment of mining experienced workers would be hired out of Minnesota.

Another discussion was a plea from the the locals about their desire to receive 100 percent of the funds derived from the mining company's required payments to the local governments and state. I believe I understand there still is a 60 / 40 split of the funds received between local and state government. I might believe local governments would truly desire a more favorable split.

Another discussion emphasized that such payments will fall under a capped revenue amount according to the net revenue earned by the mining company. I don't know how the payments are structured, but when I hear it being capped, I feel the best interest of the mining company is being looked after, not the local governments, local folks nor the State.

I also recall hearing a shortening of the lenght of time the mining company is responsible for the mine after operations cease. Again, in the best interest of whom?

Perhaps you can expand my comments further. I might then expand on a business plan for creating a human resource placement company designed to hiring a workforce of experienced miners from across the nation and abroad. Like you say, the effect of the bill is to create jobs. I think my business plan will work well for 35 years or so. There are a lot of miners in this world looking for that work who have a great deal of experiences and also would fit well with any mining company entering Wisconsin.

Duane Chapman
Lac du Flambeau, Wi.
chapmandrc9000@yahoo.com

Belman is a perfect example of the decline of the moral character in the US. And I quote, "DO SOMETHING FOR ME." Are you serious? Is that his job to do or get freebies for you specifically? My we have sunk low haven't we? I have an idea Belman, DO FOR YOURSELF. As for Joe I have always found him approachable and if you want to speak to him call him. I've called his office before and he returns calls that day. If people like him failed to act to change the culture in WI we'd be in a worse spot than we are now. See IL. Better yet here's a good article outlining what the Joe Knilan's of WI prevented:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

Sometimes acting with leadership requires doing things that are not popular or do not mean freebies for all. A mining bill that streamlines, a better descriptor is defines the permitting process, is good for Wisconsin. None of the other environmental standards change. All mining permits still must pass environmental muster but at least now these companies will at least be given a yes or no after investing millions of dollars. Simple enough one would think.

Does this tool really think he's going to fool anybody with this schlock? How dumb does he think we are? (Pretty dumb, I guess). This company will come in to WI, take the ore, throw a few coins our way for the trouble, make truckloads of money and leave us with an enviromental disaster that will take generations to clean up. Who (of the 99%)could possible favor this?

Joe When are you going to care about me the average person in Janesville. Do something for me. Stop caring about some huge company. DO SOMETHING FOR ME. I have not seen you at one event in Janesville or make yourself open to us who vote. Why is that.

The bill was written by 5 Republicans along with the business lobby Wisconsin Manufacturers & Commerce and Gogebic. The 5 admitted they relied on reps of Gogebic, the mining company that wants to open the mine. The Department of Natural Resources was consulted, environmental or wildlife groups were not. Last year, Gogebic demanded changes in mining legislation after substantial political contributions to both parties. It doesn’t matter that it was Republicans that wrote the bill to say what Gogebic wanted it to say, Gogebic made sure they had all their bases covered, they bought off Democrats as well. http://www.wisdc.org/pr121510.php
“This mine will create more than 2,500 construction jobs and have a $2 billion short-term economic impact on Wisconsin’s economy.” This country has been destroyed by short term thinking. It started in the late 80’s & early 90’s with companies only looking at short term profits to satisfy stockholders, not considering the long term effects of bleeding a company dry. Now our legislators are governing with the same mindset. Well the long term that was ignored in the 80’s and 90’s is slapping us in the face. Is this what we want to happen to the state’s natural resources, an out of state company coming in and bleeding it dry and moving on when all assets have been depleted?
As for the long term; According to the WSJ, April 2011: When the mine begins operating it would support approximately 3K jobs in the 12-county region of northern Wisconsin and Michigan's Upper Peninsula, and generate a total economic impact of $604 million a year. Only about 700 of the jobs would involve mining, paying an average $82,984 a year. Sounds nice, doesn’t it. For 700 jobs and $604 mill a year, it will destroy the tourism industry. In 2008 the annual Economic Impact of Traveler Expenditures on Wisconsin report estimated that travelers spent $13.1 billion in the state in 2008 compared to $12.8 billion in 2007. So those 2300 support jobs are already there in a much more environmentally safe industry that will leave our state intact and beautiful, with no huge open pit ugly eyesores and pollution left for 100’s of years. If this mine is allowed to go through it will be a devastating hit on Wisconsin’s economy, $604 million/yr from mining vs $13.1 billion from tourism. Our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be paying for the environmental damage in the long term.

Talk about clueless. It's time for Joe to go. By the way, Joe, what do the Native Americans have to say about this mining bill?

He still hasn't figured out that he's just a very short term "tool" -- Joe-you gotta go!!!

This mining bill is meant to benefit Gogebic and is weakening environmental standards in order to entice them into mining our resources. This article below from the Green Bay Gazette explains more. I have to wonder how "significantly detrimental" is defined. What a bunch of bahooey.

GREEN BAY — Republicans will soon introduce a bill to fast-track mining permits in Wisconsin. This bill is intended to benefit Gogebic Taconite, an out-of-state mining corporation, in its efforts to develop an iron mine south of Lake Superior.

Gogebic Taconite officials contend they would be conscious of protecting the environment, but insist that Wisconsin’s environmental regulations be weakened before they pursue permits for the mine. In reality, legislation being crafted by the GOP not only would weaken protections against adverse mining impacts, but also open loopholes to discharge waste, fill wetlands, develop permanent structures on lakes and streams and remove large quantities of surface and ground waters.

The Penokee Hills in northwest Wisconsin, the intended site, is one of the most pristine areas remaining in Wisconsin. Tourism, hunting, fishing and logging are major economic forces in that area. The mine will bring some new jobs to the region, but most of those are specific, highly skilled jobs likely not opened to area locals. The potential for loss of jobs due to environmental damage exceeds the potential new jobs that could be created. Please urge your legislators to vote against this bill.

Ron Vander Loop
president, Brown County Conservation Alliance

Joe Knilans said, "One side says it’s this bill, and the other side said there should be no mine at all. We had to come up with a compromise."

What a disingenuous bit of rhetoric. You don't compromise when compromise is wrong.

Joe Knilans said, "Wisconsin hasn’t issued a permit for mining iron ore in 52 years due to the number of regulations in our state. We have regulated ourselves out of our heritage in the Badger State."

There's a good reason no iron ore mining permits have been granted for over half a century! And it was not to regulate ourselves out of "our heritage." Our heritage is NOT one of destroying our environment to enrich mining corporations, regardless how badly supporters of this dangerous legislation want to believe. You are going to need better rhetoric than what you and your buddies have come up with so far to fool Wisconsinites into buying your stories.