http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepoliti...

Uh oh, wonder if we'll hear about this in the "speech"http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/corruption-investigation-looks-into-bids-to-house-county-workers-0s3t07c-138020933.html

Scott Walker tells us the budget is balanced and tells the Feds a different story. He is lying to someone, who?

He can't? oh snap!LOL

The Greece Next Door

Illinois gets a credit downgrade, in contrast to Wisconsin.

Run up spending and debt, raise taxes in the naming of balancing the budget, but then watch as deficits rise and your credit-rating falls anyway. That's been the sad pattern in Europe, and now it's hitting that mecca of tax-and-spend government known as Illinois.
Though too few noticed, this month Moody's downgraded Illinois state debt to A2 from A1, the lowest among the 50 states. That's worse even than California. The state's cost of borrowing for $800 million of new 10-year general obligation bonds rose to 3.1%—which is 110 basis points higher than the 2% on top-rated 10-year bonds of more financially secure states.
This wasn't supposed to happen. Only a year ago, Governor Pat Quinn and his fellow Democrats raised individual income taxes by 67% and the corporate tax rate by 46%. They did it to raise $7 billion in revenue, as the Governor put it, to "get Illinois back on fiscal sound footing" and improve the state's credit rating.
So much for that. In its downgrade statement, Moody's panned Illinois lawmakers for "a legislative session in which the state took no steps to implement lasting solutions to its severe pension underfunding or to its chronic bill payment delays." An analysis by Bloomberg finds that the assets in the pension fund will only cover "45% of projected liabilities, the least of any state." And—no surprise—in part because the tax increases have caused companies to leave Illinois, the state budget office confesses that as of this month the state still has $6.8 billion in unpaid bills and unaddressed obligations.
It's worth contrasting this grim picture with that of Wisconsin north of the border. Last winter Madison was occupied by thousands of union protesters trying to bully legislators to defeat Republican Governor Scott Walker's plan to require government workers to pay a larger share of their health-plan costs, and to shore up the pension system by trimming future retirement liabilities. The reforms passed anyway.
In contrast to the Illinois downgrade, Moody's has praised Mr. Walker's budget as "credit positive for Wisconsin," adding that the money-saving reforms bring "the state's finances closer to a structural budgetary balance." As a result, Wisconsin jumped in Chief Executive magazine's 2011 ranking of each state's business climate—moving to 17th from 41st. Illinois dropped to 48th from 45th as ranked by the nation's top CEOs.
Yet Mr. Walker, who balanced the budget without new taxes, is the governor facing a union-financed attempt to recall him from office this year. If Wisconsin voters want to see where a state ends up without the kind of reforms that Mr. Walker made, they need only look to the Greece next door.
Copyright 2011 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved

Well I am not willing to hand this state over to Kathleen Falk that would be a worse choice for Wisconsin and i doubt that Falk would be the first choice of Wisconsin's democrats to replace Walker if their is a recall. I think the democrats will make a much better choice than Falk who would not have a chance against Walker

" but the credibility of your posts has been on a downward spiral for sometime, and all you're left with is name-calling and insults. It's too bad, because your posts used to contain some reasoning."
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oh no! I am so shocked you disagree with my posts. I suspect if I didn't call you out on the false information you provide you perhaps might have a different responce. In the mean time rest assured I will go through my day just fine regardless what you think.

Gandy -- you will need to divide the signatures by 2 based upon the duplicate signatures collected. So its probably going to come out to less than 1/2 those submitted.

For all intended purposes? They were not the same,as you stated. You just admitted they weren't by your own comment. Not that hard to see what you first stated was false.

"It’s comforting to know that our president was close friends with this unrepentant terrorist since his college days, huh?"

From the source:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2010/04/...

Fine with me Flick.....let's talk about terrorists,......how about Bill Ayers....

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2010/04/...

RAF, Please advise about the lie that you accuse me of stating. The number of recall signatures is just shy of the TOTAL votes received by Walker in his 2010 election (Walker received 1.12 million votes). For all intents and purposes, the same number of people signed the petition as voted for him. You can live your life of denial all you want, but the credibility of your posts has been on a downward spiral for sometime, and all you're left with is name-calling and insults. It's too bad, because your posts used to contain some reasoning.

The waivers are for a delay until 2018 to negotiate changes in health care contracts that are considered to have "Cadillac benefits", that would be taxed, or because of health care coverages that are too low to meet the new standards, those waivers run until 2014. Congress did not get an automatic waiver under either scenario. Try again.

"it's quite stunning that as many people signed the recall petition as voted for Walker in the first place."
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And the lies from the fringe continue...

No2 stated "The truth is that the recall was such a successful grassroots effort that the best RAF can do to discredit it is to claim it wasn't grassroots - in his usual half-truth manner. Now, when pressed, he concedes it was a grassroots effort, ideologically speaking."
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More lies from the fringe. I have stated on a consitant basis the signatures collected was in no way a small feat. But expecting you to be truthful in your postings about what others said is never required; as it rarely happens.

Pharm there are more than 1,000 groups/companies/business that applied for waivers from the first aspects of these laws, something those in Washnington aren't being held to untill sometime in 2014. Hardly the same set of rules for everyone.

wislady, those two consecutive pages with the same four names, one is for the petition to recall Walker, one is for the petition to recall Galloway. Your conservative hate group is so eager to claim fraud they didn't even bother to read the top of the signature pages.

Walter -- the left has been spending time with Dahmer --- that lobotomy is the only excuse for not seeing what the elite are doing to them.

wislady, it's quite stunning that as many people signed the recall petition as voted for Walker in the first place. The 64 day signing period means nothing. You're dreaming if you think the Republican petition saboteurs planted enough false signatures to stop the recall, which can't happen soon enough.

It took 64 days for recall people to submit over 1 million signatures.

More than 1 million people voted for Scott Walker in 1 day.

Recall Verification Begins- Duplicates, Invalid Signatures Found Early

Almost immediately, reports starting popping up of apparent fraud as the public starting parsing through the thousands of pages of recall petitions. One example was mentioned that on Sen. Galloway’s recall petition, two consecutive pages (1484 and 1485) have the same four signatures, four addresses, and were signed by the same circulator. Another example is that a man signed Sen. Scott Fitzgerald’s petition even though he resides outside of his district.

Many more of these examples will begin to pile up as the official review process begins. ”Verify the Recall” plans to enter all of the signatures into a database and cross-reference many different data sets to look for irregularities. The recall committees’ attempts to file such a large number of petitions coupled with their statements saying the recall signatures were “beyond legal challenge,” beg the question of how much fraud is really in the recall petitions? Only time will tell how much fraud has actually taken place, but we could be seeing electoral fraud that reaches an unprecedented level.

http://mediatrackers.org/2012/01/recall-...

RhetoricAndFalderal said, "I never claimed there was no grassroots INVOLVEMENT in the recall I clearly pointed out with the national and state political party behind it, national and state unions behind it, and many large donors behind it the claim of a grassroots movement is only an ideological one and not at all real."
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The truth is that the recall was such a successful grassroots effort that the best RAF can do to discredit it is to claim it wasn't grassroots - in his usual half-truth manner. Now, when pressed, he concedes it was a grassroots effort, ideologically speaking. What silliness. Give him some time, this has been a trying time for Walker supporters.

Congress is required to get their insurance from the health exchanges that start in 2014. There is no need for a waiver since there are no exchanges. No one else is required to get their insurance from the non-existant exchanges either. That does not make them exempt from anything. Congressional, Federal health insurers are required to follow the same laws under the new health law as every other insurer, pre-existing conditions, covering kids to 26, etc.

Pharm unlike other groups congress is not required to participate for over another year [some time in 2014], they din't have to apply for a waiver or seek exception they already have it.

recallwalker.org was copywrited in 2011. recallscottwalker.com is the site politifact said is one individual not affiliated with the recall that got a million signatures. Just because you say it is not debatable does not make it so.
RAF, 12/29/11, 1:31PM."youkillme, a legislatures job, in most cases unfortunately, to enact laws. In many of those cases they exempt themselves like Obamacare."
No qualifiers used.

Ezoner,
I'd rather take that trip with Cheney than the visit to the showers with Jerry Sandusky that the right puts the middle class through every day.

"Also, I see you have joined the "conspiracy theorists" about Congress exempting themselves from the new health care bill"
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Feel free to point it out were I said they exempted themselves from all aspects of the new program, I'll wait.

pharm the politifact never looked at the recallwalker (.com) and (.org) sites in their story, and you think that makes it complete? The fact remains those sites were created the day he was elected to include the site listed in their story. That is hardly debatable. As far as budgets, the republican led congress and clinton used similar accounting methods done my many government levels. Funny part of that is now that Walker did the same thing there is a problem with it when before these same people were defending it. I have always stated the math used by these people is clearly void of what is required by every private business and person in this country. There is a thing called principles and positions, you either have them or you don't.

I am getting to the point of just saying we should send all the far left loons on a hunting trip with Cheney.

Ah, I see. politifact is right when they agree with your stances, but they are mistaken when they don`t. How about the official US government records stating 4 balanced budgets under Clinton, which factcheck.org says is true? (maybe only 3 under a different accounting method). I see you trying to defend the so-called balanced budget under Walker using those same methods. His budget kicks debt down the road under a higher debt ratio than under Doyle, 2.28% this year, to 5% next, and over 5% in 2013-2015. And, his budget "raids" the general and environmental funds to add money to the transportation fund, $400 million. In the next budget those funds won`t be there, and there will be a deficit in the transportation fund.
Also, I see you have joined the "conspiracy theorists" about Congress exempting themselves from the new health care bill even though politifact.com, factcheck.org, and snopes.com all say that is false.

pharm interesting job politifact tried to do. Skipped right passed the recallwalker websites not run by the "single" person you claim. Regardless, this was all started long ago.

The website was created by an individual who grabbed up the domain name at that time. It was dormant until late February, after Walker introduced his legislation. The individual was not connected to the recall effort that got the signatures, and his name did not appear on the petitions when they announced they had 200,000 signatures. politifact.com says when Walker claimed the recall effort started the day he was elected, that it is a false statement.

"The funny thing to me is to listen to YOU call anyone else call a person partisan.
BTW the Wisconsin effort to recall these politicians was largely grassroots, to deny it is false information and very misleading.
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fear I have never hid from my positions or beliefs. Unlike others I make no false pretenses of what I think. I never claimed there was no grassroots INVOLVEMENT in the recall I clearly pointed out with the national and state political party behind it, national and state unions behind it, and many large donors behind it the claim of a grassroots movement is only an ideological one and not at all real. Did you forget the website recall walker was created the day he was elected? Like the numbers when presented with reality those supporting the movement buck and whine because they don't want to believe the truth.

"Speaking of consistentcy, why is it that so many that seem to hold your similar partisan beliefs about the false perceprion of a balanced budget? The Wisconsin budget is no more balanced than the national budget. Cute catch phrases certainly doesn't make the argument true."
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Do you mean why do so many people understand the state budget has the same warped accounting model used by the last governor(s), many other states, and local governments? Interesting how you critique this accounting now that Walker is in place while at the same time you tried to make claims Clinton balanced his budgets. Well we both know you are neither consistent nor able to see the truth where you don't want to.

fear stated "All I see from you..is claims of false facts from others and lots of name calling on your part."
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This is ANOTHER example of ANOTHER liberal claiming "do as I say not as I do".

Here is just a speckling of your hypocrisy fear;
-" You seem to think you know what people are teaching each other, when in all reality all you do is make stupid , false generalizations that mean nothing, but unfortunately many middle lower class voting white people believe it"
-"What hyperbolic conservatives like you do is to sensationalize the low percentage of black folks..."
-" your ignorance is so damn simplistiic and thick headed I don't know why I bother"
-"So ezoner Gingrich will clock Obama in debates?"
-Who knows maybe if we just eliminate AFDC all the poor people will just all starve to death, or just eliminate each other, save us the trouble"

I could keep going but the point is clear.

excellent example:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepoliti...

All I see from you RAF is claims of false facts fromothers and lots of name calling on your part. Do you get off on calling others anmes? I just enjoy looking back at your posts and the name calling that is probably the most consistent part of your posts.
Speaking of consistentcy, why is it that so many that seem to hold your similar partisan beliefs about the false perceprion of a balanced budget? The Wisconsin budget is no more balanced than the national budget. Cute catch phrases certainly doesn't make the argument true.
The funny thing to me is to listen to YOU call anyone else call a person partisan.
BTW the Wisconsin effort to recall these politicians was largely grassroots, to deny it is false information and very misleading. Of course why would you be guilty of the same thing you accuse others of?

100% agree ""Falk is a godsend to the Republicans. No way is she electable statewide""

Uh oh;
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquart...

Most likely Barrett will come out of the primary even if unregistered Republican voters attempt to raid the primary.

Not to worry Jasper. Falk will never survive a primary. Not even the Dems want her in statewide office (see her election losses in 2002 and 2006). I honestly can't believe she got reelected in Dane County after the whole 911 flap.

My only question, are recalls going to be a regular thing for democrats that don't agree with opposition? Oh Wait I think I just answered my own question because democrats always disagree with opposition. Oh dear God I'm cancelling my cable & developing a hearing and sight problem on purpose. No forget that I'll just move yeah that makes more sense! My God this is as ridiculous and stupid as yahoo answers. If you couldn't stand politics before I'll bet your really going to enjoy it now!

Jasper that primary will pose a problem, I agree.

I'm going to vote for Kathleen Falk if their is a primary for the Democrats. That will ensure my vote for Walker in the general election.

Falk is a godsend to the Republicans. No way is she electable statewide.

The Democratic Party in our state is clueless, the recall has already failed.

I see it bothered you enough to respond. Again, very predictable.

Gee walter that bothers me so much

RAF,
Thanks. It only took you 1 solitary sentence to confirm everything Bea had written about you. You are nothing if not predictable.

Bea make sure to get that victim card punched...

There is only one small group of well-connected people who wins under Maine2010's view of future America - let's just say it ain't the regular wage-earning folks.

WOO-HOO!!!!! Over 300 posts - where's saxcat??
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Vato, I've seen you post that you think starting teachers should earn $70-80k. No problem with that as they'll be earning it, but that means doubling current salaries. So you'll need to put back that 1.6 billion and add another 1.6 billion. Where will the money come from?

Municipalities across Wisconsin (and the entire U.S.) need to file bankruptcy immediately in order to discharge all abusive public sector liabilities (excessive salaries, pensions, double-dipping, etc.), and then lower taxes (including property taxes) to align them with the lower, post-Great Recession wages of the private sector. This will make homeownership affordable to a greater proportion of private sector workers and benefit the real estate market. Right now, the 12% of Wisconsin residents working in the public sector are extorting the 88% majority working in the private sector group, and this can no longer be tolerated.

RAF - I was thinking for myself. In my opinion, Walker's & Kleefisch's reactions, or shall I say "lack" of reaction, to the speaker was pathetic. Your opinion was that the protestors were sad, pathetic, and racist, although I don't know how they are racist because they certainly weren't protesting her. I also believe Dr. King would've been right there with the protestors since he would have been against most of what Walker stands for as mentioned by the speaker. You have an opinion and so do I. Just because my opinion isn't the same as yours doesn't mean that I don't think for myself, am less intelligent than you, don't know how to read, etc. You know, all those nasty comments that you make about other posters when one of them disagrees with you. My little FOX News joke is pretty tame compared to your nasty comments. But, once again, that's just my opinion. I think we're all allowed to have one. Oh, and go ahead and respond with something nasty. I know how you always have to have the last word. I'll let you have it and won't respond back.

Poo -- My point is that this recall is senseless and a waste of time and money. The media perception by most (unless you are predisposed to a particular position, say far left, right or union) is that this is all non-sense and that we should be focused on other things. Let the leaders lead. If you dont like what they do vote them out next time around.

Ezoner said, "What the far left does not realize is that they are not being successful in swaying public opinion of the people they need to win."
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Far left? That's a laugh. I'm probably about as far left as it gets and the vast majority of people supporting the recall are well to the right of me. Most all supporters AND opponents of the recall are about dead center on the political spectrum, fighting like a bunch of pigs over the scraps the economic elitists throw you every day. That said, wait and see what happens. I think all of the Walker supporters kicking up dust like a bunch of roosters here early this morning is a great indicator of how well the recall is doing.

." 1.6 billion in cuts to funding is DECIMATION, no matter how you want to spin it."

Sorry that it upsets you that teachers actually have to do their job now..it's the lazy ones who resist more because they stand to lose pay and benefits......

Other countries get it done with less money........what are we doing wrong......? Feeding the WEAC machine...thats about it....

Wlater & Fear -- Its simple -- real simple. But apparently you cannot see through your hatred and rediculous position. Whether I agree or disagree with a position or direction of an elected official does not constitute a recall and is a total waste of time and money. As a result, I could never support a counter position cndidate and it has totally soured me (an independent) on the democratic position. What the far left does not realize is that they are not being successful in swaying public opinion of the people they need to win. They are alienating them. If they were to focus upon the next election, focusing upon how to work public opinion, opposed to spending millions on a recall, wasting time, damaging public property, invading peoples rights and later justifying it to secure what they believe is their right, they may have a chance. Dont look for a poll to show this -- dont look for an article on this -- but everyone in the middle will certainly tell you this.

Example -- you heard the cheers in the CNN debate last evening when the 1st question was about Newt 20yr old marriage, not the economy, not the military, not the EU economy, not jobs. Even you are successful when you stick to pertinent topics. You need to step back and take a look at what is actually happening and the unions and far left are alienating voters.

The presenter was merely letting people know that given Dr. King's political, social and religious beliefs he would not be in favor of most of the things the Republicans running the Capitol have done since taking power. That's it. Anybody that has studied Dr. King's speeches, writings and teachings would agree.

Bealab, the presenter at the MLK presentation was intentionally going after the Repubs. Were you there or are you relying on an edited youtube to tell you what you need to know. Anyone can edit youtube to make anyone look bad.

" I really enjoy your sad, pathetic attempts at picking apart my posts with quotation marks to try to make your points. I thouroughly enjoy waiting for your name calling and labelling as some kind of "tool" to downgrade those you disagree with. Demonizing workers unions, demonizing teachers and other critical public servants while comparing them with CEOs is GREAT!!! That is an argument that middle class people can relate to."
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Speaking of sad and pathetic, your continued issuance of false and misleading information to include misstatements and blatant lies of what you claim others post. Again with talking points, demonizing, yeah that is pathetic. Oh, one more thing. Your CEO claim is answered by my first sentence in these comments as another example of lies and false information. If you really can't read I would suggest you take a class to help.

"Why dont you provide the AFL-CIO link to the training sessions in Wisconsin. I would also contend that there is NOTHING wrong with a union organizing folks to fight back for their representation. The last time I checked Unions were still legal. Just because you hate the people and workers having a voice, doesnt mean that they are eil , unholy organizations. The decline of union membership in this country has contributed directly to wage depairity and is a huge part of the decline of the US once great middle class."
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There is a AFLCIO blog link off their Wisconsin website, if you want to read it go ahead. I didn't have an interest other than to dispute the false retoric over grass roots. I never claimed there was a problem with unions or their members participating in any legal process outside the lopsided barganing process that has occured in our state for decades. There you go again with a claim of my hatred for unions. Can you get passed you bias and at least try to back this claim? Hint, if a person critizes a union process that does not equate to hate, unless you can't grasp simple english. If you really think a "wage gap" is caused by lack of unions you are incapable of seeing the whole picture.

"The best part about your 2 links provided linked to unions organizing, are from OHIO!! There is NOTHING in either link about their involvement in WISCONSIN!! Did you forget what state you were in?"
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CLEARLY you failed to read the full post before making a foolish comment.

fear stated "You dont like to separate debt and defecit in the national debate over funds and enjoy nitpicking numbers nationally. Yet will continue to try to push the rhetoric that the state budget is somehow balanced?"
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The debt is the sum of deficits why would you separate them unless you only want to look at a small window of time. The same example is stating you only owe $1,000.00 for your house because that is your payment instead of looking at the balance of the loan. If you indeed did read any of my posts on this subject I have never supported the accounting methods used by any government level, they all move funds around to hide real numbers at the same time fine business' for doing the same thing. Nothing changed over the math used in this budget v. the other states budgets but in your crying you blame but one guy while sticking your head in the sand over others pretending this is the first time it happened this way. Get a clue here will you. The practice involved allows accruing a debt playing sideways around the rules requiring a balanced sheet to present to others. This is neither new nor different. Yet partisans like you are suddenly crying a river thinking this is the very first time it occurred when it has been going on for decades at the state level and centuries at the national level.

fear stated "I volunteered in SEVERAL different areas all around the state of Wisconsin, and had ZERO affiliation with any unions, so unless you were out there volunteering, your union bashing is just a similar talking point, and just doesnt work."
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And? Who said you didn't? BTW what part of my comments "bashed" unions? If you can get past your talking points my point is still perfectly clear, this was not a grass roots movement. Did it involve local people, well yes. Does that mean an organized structure wasn't here as well, no. For those, like you, that can't comprehend try reading slower. Local people were part of the process but so was national organizations, making a solo grass roots claim false; unless you’re incapable of removing your partisan blinders.

The best part about your 2 links provided linked to unions organizing, are from OHIO!! There is NOTHING in either link about their involvement in WISCONSIN!! Did you forget what state you were in?
Why dont you provide the AFL-CIO link to the training sessions in Wisconsin. I would also contend that there is NOTHING wrong with a union organizing folks to fight back for their representation. The last time I checked Unions were still legal. Just because you hate the people and workers having a voice, doesnt mean that they are eil , unholy organizations. The decline of union membership in this country has contributed directly to wage depairity and is a huge part of the decline of the US once great middle class.

RAF I really enjoy your sad, pathetic attempts at picking apart my posts with quotation marks to try to make your points. I thouroughly enjoy waiting for your name calling and labelling as some kind of "tool" to downgrade those you disagree with. Demonizing workers unions, demonizing teachers and other critical public servants while comparing them with CEOs is GREAT!!! That is an argument that middle class people can relate to.

Comparing CEO salaries to Thousands and thousand of teachers, police, and firefighters? Talk about apples and oranges, my God!! And you talk about "liberal" garble? HA!

""
Nothing changed other than the way some are now criticizing the numbers.
""
Nothing but holding your hero accountable for the words that come out of his mouth, which you never will do for Scott.
""In 2010, when he ran to succeed Doyle, Walker made an explicit promise, on his campaign website: To "require the use of generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP) to balance every state budget, just as we require every local government and school district to do."""

So is he going to use GAAP practices or not? If we are going to use those standards, the budget is no more balanced than it was the day he took office. but I guess it just depends how bad you want him to looklike he is telling the truth.

Raf the only pitifull thing here is your contention is that public ed has not been decimated. 1.6 billion in cuts to funding is DECIMATION, no matter how you want to spin it.

so then under your own contention of my inconsistency; ""
Interesting you are also one of the posters that continually claimed clintons budget was balanced...yet under him debt increased as well; your lack of inconsistency continues.
""
Then the budget under Walker is not balanced, because in the same Politifact article it says we will be left with a 3 bbillion dollar defecit, so which is it??
You dont like to separate debt and defecit in the national debate over funds and enjoy nitpicking numbers nationally. Yet will continue to try to push the rhetoric that the state budget is somehow balanced?
So whcih is it RAF balanced or not??
There's a chart every two years in the state budget demonstrating the bottom line under GAAP. The chart in the Walker administration's Budget in Brief shows that the 2011-13 budget was not close to balanced by that standard.

In fact, the document shows that based on GAAP accounting, the state would have been left with a deficit of $3 billion by 2012-13 under Walker's budget. That compares to the $2.9 billion GAAP deficit he inherited at the end of Doyle's term, the state's financial statements show.
Or does the GAAP accounting standard that Scott explicitly promised he would follow not count now so we can experience the rhetoric?
SO you get to choose the gimmicks and tricks that they use? Whether they are raising transportation funds or pushing the balancing act of to local municipalities? Like most of what you say it makes me laugh

Again your playing with words and making silly attempts from your computer console and trying to pick apart my words as some ideological pathetic attempt at making partisan points is very funny to me.
Again in case you missed it , I volunteered in SEVERAL different areas all around the state of Wisconsin, and had ZERO affiliation with any unions, so unless you were out there volunteering, your union bashing is just a similar talking point, and just doesnt work. The FACT remains RAF this was largely a grass roots effort. The volunteers from unions are certainly there, but they are VOLUNTEERS!! You really gotta stop sniffing glue.

Bea stated "That is if you can tear yourself away from FOX News long enough to check it out."
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Is that the best you got? The same lame garble from liberals, if you don't agree with them it must be because they watch fox. Why not try a new approach and look up information for yourself before regurgitating the fox claim? To address your comments, the sick part was protesting of Walker during the ceremony honoring King; disrespectful. But if you think a change in a facial muscle in reaction to a speaker stating things about voter ID has anything to do with King you have indeed lost any ability to think for yourself.

RAF - Loved your comments about the MLK celebration being sad, pathetic, and racist due to the protesters present. Perhaps you need to watch the video version that zooms in on Walker and Kleefisch. That is if you can tear yourself away from FOX News long enough to check it out. Talk about sad, pathetic, and racist. Their reaction to the speaker...or LACK of reaction...could certainly be viewed as sad, pathetic, and racist.

Motorman I have no issue with your supporting the cause, I'm happy to see people interested in government. My post was in direct response to the false claim this was all a grass roots issue. I don't have a problem with these groups coming in to do what they did, it was legal. But for others to sit back and make claims it was done as a grass roots effort is just silly when it is easy to find all the ORGANIZED efforts involved.

fear stated "Lets be clear here, if Scott Walker had been clear of his intent to decimate public education and destroy CB in the state"
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Funny, right after you said let’s be clear you parroted talking points of rhetoric. Education has not been decimated. This PITIFULL talk from you is so bloviated you can't believe it either. What about destroying CB in this state? It has changed, based on law for some public workers. But your liberal choice of words, while ignoring the violent rhetoric your side walled about just one year ago does go to show the level of inconsistency your party follows.

fear stated "then I certainly hope you are consistent and don't support Walker since he..."
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Pot meet kettle. In other words another liberal claiming they want you to do something they dont do.

No2 stated "you make a great point mentioning Walker changing accounting methods."
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Nothing changed other than the way some are now criticizing the numbers.

"To say that Obama is equally culpable for the TARP bailouts as the Bush administration, is laughable."
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Yes you would. Any elected person that voted in favor of the measure holds the same level of culpability, most people call that responsibilty following a persons action. Since the administration you love to hate so much, in this case bush, couldn't do the actions without the legislative branch how do you ignore this?

"Some people think that making teaching, police work, firefighting, corrections less attractive , lower paying careers by pitting people against each other to create an environment of jealousy and hate is morally bankrupt."
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Others think public sector employees are doing a good job and don't see the issue this way. While others continually harp on other peoples pay, like CEO salaries, that create an environment of jealousy and hate and declare that is morally correct...hypocrisy anyone.

fear stated "obviously many people(a million) think that 3-4 thousand dollar a year cuts in salary for low paid state workers baed on an ideology is morally bankrupt."
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All people that signed think that way? Interesting how you cried foul when I said people not signing didn't support the recall, obviously. But you can state those that did sign think there was a cut to salary---when there wasn't.

"I don't think that in a time of such financial crisis when we are slashing the public education budget that we should be giving one dime to private vouchers."
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If a student leaves the school the state money for that student is also gone. What about this don't you get? The voucher program is a lower cost per student for education for the state, saving money. Yet you still chime this is destruction...laughable.

"Just so we are clear, the budget is NOT balanced. That is not even an argument. Scott keeps talking about not using the "accounting gimmicks of the past" and he is using them!! To project a balanced budget!!"
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The accounting tricks of the past included taking money from funds illegally are you claiming this is still happening? In the same story you keep re-posting about from politifact they stated "Walker balanced the budget, and in a way that eliminated the state's structural deficit, under the manner the state has long used." So your harping is over what? Are you complaining over the terrible way most governments do accounting? Interesting you are also one of the posters that continually claimed clintons budget was balanced...yet under him debt increased as well; your lack of inconsistency continues.

Sorry to burst your fantasy that the recall is some giant union organized plot RAF; but I'm one of those who volunteered to stand in the cold gathering signatures. I was not recruited, I don't belong to a union, I consider myself politically independent, having always split my ticket. I have never been politically active prior to this year, but I am now, the signatures are real, many signed by folks just like me who think Mr. Walker and the Fitzgeralds have over reached themselves,and put the proud traditions of our great state at risk. I for one have no desire to live in a cold Mississippi. And by-the-way I am employed, happily pay my fair share of taxes(more than GE did) and will continue to do so. Walker's extreme brand of corporate welfare at the expense of a beleagured middle class is unfair, unwanted, and unamerican. The sooner he is removed the better.

fear stated "Which groups in Ohio were here collecting signatures? Let me guess, "Big governement unions""
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See you were able to figure that out all by yourself. If an organization starts something it is hardly grass roots. For more real information...

Here is a link to the AFLCIO grass roots training session for ohio http://www.ohaflcio.org/sb5referendumtra...

Here is another nice story "The head of the nation’s largest labor federation is expected at several events throughout the state to help get out the vote to repeal legislation" http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/1...

Here is the latest gem from the same union in this state declaring this WAS ORGANIZED, "For sixty days union and community members have organized at union halls, grocery stores and bowling allies around the state to recall Scott Walker and those who walk in lock-step with his extreme and dangerous agenda," said Stephanie Bloomingdale, Secretary-Treasurer of the Wisconsin State AFL-CIO."

But expecting you to factual is again not going to happen.

fear
I'm undecided if Walker most closely resembles Flounder,or Niedemeier after all I can picture the Kochs saying "Lets put Walker on it. He's a sneaky little ####"

LOL, thanks Dean Wormer.
Zero point Zero

When I look at moronic dropout puppet of a governor, all I can think is "Republican, chinless and stupid is no way to go through life, son..."

BTW any republican that believes that a recall of the replacement of Walker is wanted/needed after their first year in office, I would be happy to see them try. oh wait thats right they tried to recall Doyle, TWICE!!
Seems to me that Republicans lack the enthusiasm and organization that the democrats in this state have. And before the "they dont have jobs" replies start flowing from the usual suspects, I have news for you, they all have jobs. They care about integrity. A word that Scott Walker would have learned about if he had stayed in school, or maybe not, Didnt he cheat on a college election?

Ezoner- since you disagree with the recall then dont participate. To call it immoral is silly at best.
Scott Walker as Walter said was NOT clear about his agenda, and has made no attempt at compromise. I also would ask you and others who would call the recall movement "immoral" and those that support it are lacking in Charecter, then I certainly hope you are consistent and don't support Walker since he supported 2 recalls on Jim Doyle and recieved money from groups that attempted to recall Kohl and Feingold.

So by your standards if you are consistent, Scott Walker lacks Charecter and morality, no? Or are successful recall drives the only ones that lack morality.

I also find you rage toward people excersising their rights a little troubling. The rules are present, no rules have been broken. The rule is there for fixing a mistake. That is the intent here.

Lets be clear here, if Scott Walker had been clear of his intent to decimate public education and destroy CB in the state, he NEVER would have been elected. That along with giving appointees and donors sons huge pay increases in a time where he has decided to offer cuts to all other state workers, are things that I find Immoral and lacking of charecter.

Ezoner,
This potential recall could set an excellent precedent. Candidates from any party need to know that failing to disclose key details about their plan for governing during their campaign can endanger their term if they are elected to office. A period of perpetual elections and the taxpayer money spent are totally worth it if future candidates heed the warning that a recall of Scott Walker could send. The voters should know exactly what they will get before they step into the voting booth not after a candidate is elected.

Walter -- the vote already happened. The people of EI need to be looking forward to the next election and not backward. This accomplishes nothing and is a waste of money, the same as the democrats going to IL. The only thing they accomplished was being paid for not doing their jobs. Its very simplistic. I would say the same thing about repubs if the shoe were on the other foot. This is not the type of precedent that should be set. I have the same opinion about the the impeachment of Clinton -- basically a lie about an affair, when the real issue was his policies and they could not impeach for that. This is just as bad. Just as big a waste. We have people on welfare, food stamps and instead money will be spent on the election and recall. What a friggin waste.

If Walker had been absolutely clear about his plan to do away with collective bargaining rights, this recall would never had happened. Everyone recognized the need to balance the budget. Many do not like the way Walker has gone about it, but if that is all he had done, there would still be no recall. He was not up front about his plan. The recall is necessary so the people of WI can vote for Walker or his opponent finally knowing what Walker's agenda is. He kept it a secret and then dropped it on the state. That is governing in bad faith and that is why the recall is happening. Had he allowed the people to make an informed vote in the first place, this wouldn't be happening to him.

Fear -- these people would not be allowed in my house nor on my property. They are unethical and immoral. You and I have agreed that there serious issues on both sides -- repub and dem. But once the election is done, and the leaders elected are serving -- my position is that a recall because you do not agree with the policy is rediculous. Thats what elections are for. You dont get a reset or restart or start over. You may not like what that results were, I totally disagreed with Doyle, I thought Tommy was an idiot. But the election was held, thats over and done.

Lets make an assumption -- lets say that a pro-union democrat was elected, taxes were raised, union rights expanded, government grown. I would not view a recall as a valid option. I would wait until the next election and vote my convictions. Thats the point. Personally I dislike our 2 party system. It forces people to pick the lessor of 2 evils (especially those in the middle). Many times we are left with no real choice. What is being done now is wasting money that could be spent to grow the economy and jobs. Money that could be spent on infrastruture will go to ads and campaigns, no real goods purchased. This is a complete waste of resources and I refuse to accept any explanation for waste. ANyone justifying this -- just plain -- doesnt have a clue.

Fear, you make a great point mentioning Walker changing accounting methods. You know, if a business entity wants to change accounting methods from an accrual basis to a cash basis it requires government notification. The fact notification is required shows that this is not a trivial shift in accounting methods. I'm quite sure, however, that Walker's new phony accounting was done on a pro forma basis so he would have an escape hatch if needed.

Well I am not willing to hand this state over to Kathleen Falk that would be worse than Walker her record speaks for herself Falk resigned in 2010 because of the Brittany Zimmerman situation which speaks for its self and is accountable for. I do believe there will be a better choice selected by Democrats than Falk if Democrats want a real chance in a recall.

Still waiting for RAF or others to tell me how the Wisconsin budet is "balanced"

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/prom...

Politifact says Promise broken. exerpt from article:

Walker balanced the budget, and in a way that eliminated the state's structural deficit, under the manner the state has long used.

But GAAP, an accrual accounting method, is a tighter standard that counts future liabilities that flow from past budget actions.

We examined Walker's first budget, the 2011-13 biennial budget, to see if he lived up to his promise to balance the budget using GAAP.

There's a chart every two years in the state budget demonstrating the bottom line under GAAP. The chart in the Walker administration's Budget in Brief shows that the 2011-13 budget was not close to balanced by that standard.

In fact, the document shows that based on GAAP accounting, the state would have been left with a deficit of $3 billion by 2012-13 under Walker's budget. That compares to the $2.9 billion GAAP deficit he inherited at the end of Doyle's term, the state's financial statements show.

RAF_ to the TARP bailoouts. I have HUGE disdain for Obama for voting for them. I also have looked back at the pressure that was placed on the congress to push that legislation through and the scare tactics used by the administration, usuing end of the world rhetoric. That being said he absolutely should NOT have voted for them. That among many other reasons is a part of why I will not be casting a ballot for the current POTUS again. To say that Obama is equally culpable for the TARP bailouts as the Bush administration, is laughable.

I am curious, what about your governor? He outwardly supported 2 failed recall attempts of Jim Doyle. Does that mean that WAlketr has no Charecter because he disagreed with doyle policy??

""I do not like recalls for the purposes stated -- should the govenor had done something unethical or morally bankrupt - then a recall is in order. If you simply do not like the policy or decision, that shows a lack of character --""

Ezoner- obviously many people(a million) think that 3-4 thousand dollar a year cuts in salary for low paid state workers baed on an ideology is morally bankrupt.
Some people think that making teaching, police work, firefighting, corrections less attractive , lower paying careers by pitting people against each other to create an environment of jealousy and hate is morally bankrupt.
Disagreeing with a policy and excersising your rights under the state constitution(recall) based on your personal beliefs and disagreeing with a policy based on class warfare, shows STRENGTH in charecter, not lack thereof. Like RALF you certainly are "entitled" to your opinion, but I find it hilarious that people excersising their rights under the state constitution have no charecter?

RAF- The truth about your opinion? Doesn't bother me, its your opinion, something you are entitled to. Still searching for some of your "REAL FACTS"

And, then again, there are others who couldn't care less about it.

Vato- Youre married? Poor woman!;)(sarcasm intended!)

I love how "REAL FACTS" are followed by assumptions and personal opinions, hilarious!!
Assuming that every person that will be voting that is opposed to the current administration signed, and that EVERY person that didn't sign is voting for Walker? Those are "REAL FACTS"? LOLOLOL!!
Which groups in Ohio were here collecting signatures? Let me guess, "Big governement unions" , was One Wisconsin now collecting signatures in Ohio? Was the Democratic Party of Wisconsin collecting signatures in Ohio? While I am sure that some union folks may have been helping out, I can tell you from volunteering in 10 different counties during the recall, that I didn't meet anyone volunteering from out of state.
Ohio voters struck down the Kasich law overwhelmingly, and Wisconsin voters would do the same to act 10 if given the opportunity, unfortunately recall is our only recourse. I just want to hear something other than repeatetive talking points from Scott Walker, once. Something that doesn't match his released statements verbatim.
Just so we are clear, the budget is NOT balanced. That is not even an argument. Scott keeps talking about not using the "accounting gimmicks of the past" and he is using them!! To project a balanced budget!!
RAF- I don't think that in a time of such financial crisis when we are slashing the public education budget that we should be giving one dime to private vouchers. If you want to send your kid to a private religious school, that is YOUR choice and YOU shhould pay for it. That being said< I also believe that if a person chooses that path they should get some kind of extra tax credit for doing so.

The truth really bothers some people...

RhetoricAndFalderal said, "Any state resident of voting age could have signed, showing support for." This, of course, is not the whole truth. We know there were people who signed the petitions, some claiming several times, without supporting the recall. Several posts here attest to that.
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RhetoricAndFalderal also said, "Choosing not to sign also shows support against." Again, not the whole truth. There were people who did not sign a petition but do support the recall. So what we have in Raffy's statement is nothing more than rhetoric.

" If you simply do not like the policy or decision, that shows a lack of character --"

I agree Ezoner....the recall supporters would like to equate the new budget repair law as though First Amendment rights are being violated.....simply not the case....

Personally -- If someone would have approached me I would have asked them to set an appoointment at a later date -- to arrange the time for me to read the entire document. Not to ambush me in a public or private outing. To me approaching someone is the same as a pam call on the phone -- Once they appeared at the pre-scheduled time and location, I would have spent the time explaining that I could not support a group, organization or effort that used such tactics. Invading my private time and space, without my prior approvasl.

I would have prepared a document to hand to them stating that any further contact would be a violation of my privacy and if they were to show up at my private property, they were not allowed and I would consider it tresspassing and would not be liable if they were to injure themseleves.

The people have no regard for privacy.

Now -- if they just set up a booth and collect based upon people that approach -- fine. However, any business that allows this booth on their property is at risk of losing my business and likely the business of others.

Personally -- I do not like recalls for the purposes stated -- should the govenor had done something unethical or morally bankrupt - then a recall is in order. If you simply do not like the policy or decision, that shows a lack of character --

There are many decisions that I did not agree with Doyle and even Thompason on. But thats what the election process is for. Not a way or reason to harrass, wasting time and money.

My wife and I spent New Years Day in Madison and lo and behold there was a lady shouting at us to sign a petition. I told her to quit crying and appreciate all the good things in life....

Gandalf, you must not get out much. Petition signers were being sought at the post office drive up boxes, while entering the mall, and I saw an endless stream of card tables and signs everywhere I went. Signing took no effort at all and only a moron would reason that their signature wouldn't count.
FYI: I did not sign a recall petition and yes, I oppose the recall.

Stating that 'Choosing not to sign shows support against.' is fallacious logic. It's also wrong that everyone was approached to sign. I signed by seeking-out a petition. Nobody 'solicited' me. I know many people who chose not to seek-out a petition to sign because they assumed there would be enough signatures already, and their signature wasn't really needed. They do intend to vote, however,and not for Walker.

I agree with RAF (Jan 19, 1:30 am) when he said "Choosing not to sign also shows support against."
For the last 2 months in every nook and cranny of society one was approached to sign a recall petition.
Even in inappropriate places.
Proving once again that the true believers have no sense of venue, they solicited signatures in Pasedena at the Rose Bowl. Here is the real kicker, one of the guests at our family/and friends Thanksgiving dinner solicited signatures on her recall petition.
My point is it took an effort to NOT sign, which in the case of most folks that I know is a 'vote' against the recall.
Another point is that it was easy to sign a recall petition. You could sign any time you were out and about.
Voting is another story, you have to plan a break in the routine and get to a specific location on a specific day.
When voting day comes many intend to vote, few actually do.

RAF,
Based on your posts here and on other articles, your contention is clear. You believe that anyone that does not sign a recall petition is against the petition. You have actually used the word "anyone". That is obviously unprovable. Keep trying though. Your determination is, if nothing else, very entertaining.

I am curious if the GAB is comparing names on these recall petitions with the ones from Ohio petitions.

1. I never said all health plans are created equal, but you can't buy a mercedes when you only get afford a ford.

2. Every study I have ever seen actually proves that smaller class sizes doesn't necessarily mean a more educated class. Also, I don't want to remove teachers, I am talking more about the overhead staff that can be cut. My school has the same amount of students now as it had in the 1970's, yet the school now has twice the staff it did then, not to mention we also had to add an addition. Why? Just more wasted tax money IMO.

3. I happen to agree that both R and D's can't seem to balance the budget, but Walker is doing the most about it that I have seen in recent years albeit at the expense of some. But in order to balance a budget with less money, you have to start somewhere.

Would the populations of WI and Ohio be considered REAL FACTS when drawing comparisons?

"Your assumption that someone that chooses not to sign a petition is against the recall is illogical."
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Hardly illogical. You were right it "could" have a different meaning, but you "could" also win the lottery...

RAF,
Your assumption that someone that chooses not to sign a petition is against the recall is illogical. It could mean any number of things. Perhaps they didn't vote in 2010, didn't sign the petition and won't be voting in the recall election. That type of person can't be considered for or against any side, and, unfortunately, that type of person almost outnumbers any others.

Some interesting REAL FACTS for the so called overwhelming support for the recall petitions. Any state resident of voting age could have signed, showing support for. Choosing not to sign also shows support against. While the law clearly sets the threshold number based on the last election count any person that meets voter requirements could have signed whether they voted or not. The hot flash claim of a million signatures sounds impressive...until. The referendum fiasco in ohio, ran by much of the same groups involved in this state yet there they collected 1/3 more signatures. Also based on the latest census data for those of legal voting age, 4.3 million, the cuurent recall circus barely had 23% support in their effort. Not a bad result but nowhere near the colossal accomplishment they are trying to make it seem.

" tell me how Obama is AS responsible for the TARP bailouts as Bush? Because he was dumb enough to vote for them while in the senate?"
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No. Expecting you to be consistent in your positions isn't really expected based on your comments; liberal. Most reasonable people understand a vote in favor of a bill shows that person supported the measure. Since that same person was an elected member to the us Senate, part of the two branches of our government with responsibility to spend our nations money his vote is somewhat important ....unless you are to blindly partisan to see it.

" Taxpayers pay $6,442 per voucher for a child to attend a private school, including religious schools."
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Thats it? You are seriously drinking the union juice on this. First off public schools receive funds based on enrollment. If a student transfered to another school, public or private that money goes away. So on it's face your argument is another false claim. The other very ALARMING point is the large majority of public schools receive funding per student at a higher rate (cost more) than a voucher does, this then is a cost savings. But based on your idealistic liberal postings it is no wonder you refuse to see the truth in this issue.

" Mr Labeller doesn't like a source so its demonized as left wing hoo ha, Hilariously predictable!!"
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Hilarious. This coming from the leading poster here complaing about faux news, macgivvvver, heritage and the like. Typical liberal do as i say not as i do.

Lets be clear, the budget has NOT been balanced, not one bit!! So can we stop with that pit of false rhetoiric?
I continue to welcome any and all predictions from the Walker supporters. They have all been wrong since November 17 when the signatures started being collected.
The number we care about here is the 540k number. The very minute that that number has been verified, its election time. I love Graham Zelinski calling for an election NOW. Forget all of the PAC money, lets get it on!! I actually wish Mr Zelinsky would run, a young fresh new face and very confident.

Spark tell me how Obama is AS responsible for the TARP bailouts as Bush? Because he was dumb enough to vote for them while in the senate? That would be like me blaming the stimulus on Bush because his policies caused the need for it. Oh thats right GWB had his own stimulus didn't he? What did you run out and buy with your check? At least with the Obama stimulus, THOUSANDS of Teachers,Police, and Fire fighters were employed. I got real value there!!

NO!! I am not Professor Eyster, not nearly as smart. Flattered though, thanks! Eysters blogs are the best ones! Why? because all of the righties who hate him so, are all over his blog blathering!!Success!! Sheeple on the right are like shooting fish in a barrel.

1. Let's not pretend that all health plans are created equal. You get what you pay for and the trust pays for a lot. Other plans have high copays, higher deductibles and less coverage. Now the teachers have worse plans that will cost them more out of pocket and less take home pay with which to pay for it.
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2. If you call 35 kids in a class as opposed to 25 "getting along". Do you really think the quality of education will stay the same with severely larger class sizes?
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3. The repubs have been criticizing Doyle for balncing his budgets with smoke and mirrors (and I believe that's what happened) since his term began. Now the shoe is on the other foot and I'm not surprised that scooter is doing the same. None of these guys, either D or R, seems to be able to actually fix our budget problems.

SarahB1 - I saw that on the Rachel Maddow (Greenberg)last night. What a puke. Go figure Walker is associating himself with criminals and the rich!!

“I look forward to talking to the people of Wisconsin", from the weasel. This after 1 million recall signatures. One year ago the weasel didn't want to talk. RECALL the puppet(weasel)!

First,
I believe teachers should have good health plans. But I also happen to believe that they should not be paying 3 times the money for a plan that can be had for less cost.
Second,
if a school could get along with less teachers, then there must have been some waste somewhere that was eliminated.
Third,
If this balanced budget is just fudging numbers and all funny math, why couldn't democrats do the same?

Tell you democrats right now is i am not willing to hand the state over to Falk she would be the worse thing for Wisconsin. I think the Democrats can make a better choice than Falk

"While corporations and big business are getting their taxes kicked back by the billions. But you see no issue with it."

Before you assume, I do have an issue with companies taking handouts...it's not a true free enterprise system...

It is clear, the forum teabagger all agree with Walker's goal -and it not a balanced budget, but the goal of GOP authoritarian rule, and all that it entails.
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If anybody TRULY believes this debate has ANYTHING to do with a balanced budget, then I have a balsa wood airplane-WMD&fertilizer spreader to sell you.

Collective bargaining for public workers is nothing short of extortion. The reality is the laws and unions are extremely outdated and in this case they are doing nothing short of stealing food from the mouths of citizens in order to achieve pay and benefits that others do not get and none that should be acceptable to the general public. It amazes me that people feel its acceptable to demand more pay without performance and benefits without true justification and performance. The reality -- as I have stated before, is that unions have become nothing more than a pawn for power and money abused by union leadership. Yet people follow the leadership like sheep to slaughter.

Generally speaking our public school system is a failure -- our culture demands a college scholarship to work at McD's, People are educated at the same lower level as a result that our nation wants to treat all as equal, when in reality, we hold those back that could achieve more, and push those too hard that do not have the ability. We are not allowed to use our tax dollars to make decisions on education, and soon we will have an underperforming medical system using the same mediocrity standards and people will die.

Fedup: & Kaysbrew: Hmmm, for the past month(s) you've been spouting that they'd NEVER get enough votes for a recall of Scooter. Are you nervous yet? Can you see Democracy in action? I'm at my winter digs right now (over a thousand miles from JVL), BUT I'll drive home on a moment's notice to RECALL this snake.
RECALL WALKER!

The difference is public sector workers ARE also taxpayers. While corporations and big business are getting their taxes kicked back by the billions. But you see no issue with it. That's hilarious....

Bowlgal -Walker's balanced budget is a mirage. It's something you do on paper, not actual results of revenue or money spent. So with the lockstep support of GOP legislature, he rammed thru on paper the ideology of the tea party extremists and big money. It's a power grab.
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Furthermore, it is just a budget is just a paper act for one year - or very short term thinking. Meawhile, the kickbacks he's given to his wealthy donors and the gutting of public education and havoc to BadgerCare will have real costs well beyond the fictitious balanced budget.
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Not to mention the damage he's done to this state with the Bomb he dropped-Started a civil war, and sacrificed the Wisconsin way of life for the sake of outstate monied interests, and with an eye on his national level political career.
.

"Instead, Walker will be bargaining away billions of dollars annually from the working taxpayer collective to his campaign contributors and wealthy "job creators."

That's funny....for years, public sector unions have placed a fatal stranglehold on taxpayers but you see no issue with it. That's hilarious....

I'd like to see the Democrats replace Koch or Koch brothers with another contributor. Do you understand how absolutely ridiculous and hypocritical you sound? You seem to only have just one name while I could name more then a dozen wealthy Democrat contributors.

I believer Governor Walker cares very much about the budget. State can not print money like the federal government. It was the Democrats that refused to endorse a balanced budget admendment. You post has no merit.
Youkillme.-

There are several problems with jcommon's posts about the "facts." For one, most don't tell the whole story and the word "looted" should be used in place of "save(d)" to get a better perspective on what is happening. The other is Scott Walker, the Fitz Brothers and their Koch machine could care less about state budgets, saving money or the people. It's all about the politics of wealth redistribution to the top by ramming through single-party corpo-fascist rule over a newly formed single wage and benefit class society. Collective bargaining is not dead. It just won't be for the little people anymore. Instead, Walker will be bargaining away billions of dollars annually from the working taxpayer collective to his campaign contributors and wealthy "job creators." Every tax credit dollar kickbacked to the CEO's and stockholder treasuries of companies is another dollar pulled out from our pockets, out of circulation and away from demand. It's a slow but sure death spiral. We're already in it. It's time to get Walker out!

jcommon, there is nothing about CB that prevented a district from changing insurance plans. Much to your chagrin, not every district insured through the trust; even before act 10 there were plenty of districts that didn't go with the trust.
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I've been on a lot of plans (trust included) and I will tell you that it is a better plan than most, so of course it is more expensive. I won't get into a debate on whether or not we should have good benefits for teachers, I think we stand on different sides of that discussion and niether of us will change the other's mind.
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Do look at the districts you named and look at how namy fewer teachers they have than last year, either through layoffs, position reductions (a full time job that became .75) or attrition by retirement and you'll see that a lot of the "savings" comes at a cost of less jobs, fewer teachers and larger classes.

Egghead - I agree with you.
It is not a given that the election to throw out the "corrupt, devisive, anti-education, pro-wealthy Walker regime" will be successful.
Walker will outspend them thanks to big money and his fear/hate based tactics (i.e. teacher hate/union goons) are proven to appeal to dimwits.
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But you can not deny in reality-Not the forum kook alternate reality - that over a million recall signatures in 60 days is an astounding # of people. That is around 20% of the state's population and that includes children, people that can't vote and that big chunk of people that are completely unapathetic about everything.
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Yet, we'll have it your way Egghead, the "certain" people of Wisconsin have spoken. And there's a whole damn bunch of them. You know it. And Scott Walker out begging on outstate rich people's doorsteps know it.

Well, sorry for the doubters out there but I think you will not see 1/3 of the signatures thrown out. A lot of people worked very hard to collect review and submit. Regardless of what you think. RECALLED WALKER!! In California it is common practice for companies to be hired to collect signatures at a per signature fee cost. That is why you see them set up outside supermarkets and department stores in California. At a booth on Private land paying to collect that business' customers signatures.

why_think-Who lite a fire under you this last month? Did you just notice something was going on? Maybe you should higher someone who is hire up on the pay scale to keep an eye on things for you.

Abe, to say the people of Wisconsin have spoken is politically incorrect when clearly not every single Wisconsin resident supports this movement. You should have wrote certain people of Wisconsin have spoken. Incidentally I agree with some on this blog the recall effort will not succeed. If it does succeed I fear we might be in trouble because it will set us back where we were before with constantly borrowing our way out of every problem. This whole recall effort is one huge distraction of a much bigger problem DEBT. No company will locate to a state where its people and government are like vulchers and expecting them to pay out rear simply to exist here. Wisconsin has a hard enough sale as it is with year round climate, high taxes, and nothing to do for recreation. I don't know if Walker is the solution but all this recall activity is only hurting all of us because it's expensive and we're losing valuable time.

My best guess and I do believe a fairly accurate guess is if a signature is on there once, it's on again on some other page. People have signed twice at the very least- no one will go through all those signatures, right?

You are grinning right now leftist because you know I'm right.

So sad, too bad for you, it is only one vote. Bring your ID.

Wishlady- while Walker's blind followers were in forums crafting your alternate reality, concerned citizens were out carrying out this incredible task for the sake of democracy.
In your alternate universe-you can mouth that you are not worried about the recall vote prospects, but in reality you are.
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Well over a million people in 60 days- that is up there with California's recall count -a state that has 6 times as many. The People of Wisconsin have spoken!

vat,
Both start with M but I believe it was Milwaukee. I would like to know a bit more. How long has the person been employed? What hours and neighborhoods are they working?
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I don't judge those quite as quickly as you do.

wislady, you're wrong with everything you post, so I guarantee that you're likewise wrong when you say that you're 'confident that more than 1/3 will be proven fraudulent.'

vat,
DISAGREE!
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I want someone more talented, more educated and better trained to educate my children that I want OR IS NEEDED to run Walmart.
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Anyone can say, we get raises, close the plant in those states, open up plants in that 3rd world country, higher those children for $1/week and take a vacation.
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To educate a group of diverse 6 year olds or prepare a diverser group of 18 year olds to be the next generation of CEO's or teachers is much more important and SHOULD BE MORE VALUED that it is.

Why think

A Madison bus driver making 150,000 a year....please....

acai,
THANKS FOR SIGNING!

fearandrhetoric4dummies

I am confident that more than 1/3 will be proven fraudulent. All signatures will be scrutinized.
Bring on a recall, Walker will win again.

The liberals were able to get Mickey Mouse's autograph. Great for them.

"btw...those salaries are a fraction of what the ceo's at companies that are sending jobs overseas are making. A FRACTION of what the ceo TRAITORS make."

Teachers have a fraction of the responsibilities and these CEOs are chosen by private people unless you are Obama of course....

Stubby

"the poll you refer to is ongoing, and not in any way scientific. It only represents the opinions of those who choose to log on an answer with no mechanism to prevent multiple votes. In other words - worthless."

As are the polls touted by the liberals....it's the votes (or who counts the votes) that count.

Fear - Obama is just as guilty on TARP! I understand the bailout saved jobs. Did I not say it needed to happen? Point is, I didn't have a say in saving the UNION jobs for the companies own failures. Once again, you cannot admit failure from the left. Nobody is disagreeing with the failure on both sides. The difference is you and many others will continue to deny it. Don't sit here and tell everyone you are neutral, because you are not.

"""Maine2010
Jan 17, 2012 at 8:11 p.m.
Suggest removal AVERAGE WAGE AND BENEFITS (remember this is for about 9 months of work)

TEACHERS:

Milwaukee $86,297
Elmbrook $91,065
Germantown $83,818
Hartland Arrwhd $90,285 (highest teacher was $122,952-lowest was
$64,942)
Men Falls $81,099
West Bend $82,153
Waukesha $92,902
Sussex $82,956
Mequon $95,297
Kettle Mor $87,676
Muskego $91,341

STAFF:
Arrowhead - Bus mgr. - Kopecky - $169,525
Arrowhead - Principal - Wieczorek - $152,519
Grmtwn - Asst Princ - Dave Towers - $123,222
Elmbrk - Burliegh Elemetary - Principal Zahn- $142,315 (for a primary
school!!)
Madison - Asst Principal - McGrath - $127,835

UNIVERSITY of WISCONSIN STAFF (2009) (salary alone):

Michael Knetter - Prof of Bus - $327,828
Carolyn Martin -Chancellor Mad- $437,000
Hector Deluca - Prof of Nutritional Science - $254,877 (really??)

(source:Madison.com

-as the UW removed salaries from being posted online in 2007- why if they
are so low?)

How about some other "public servant job" ??? What do they make?

Madison Garbage men (2009) (salary only):

Garbageman, Mr. Nelson earned $159,258 in 2009, including $109,892 in
overtime and other pay.
Garbageman, Greg Tatman, who earned $125,598
Madison garbage men made over $100,000
30 Madison garbage men made over $70,000

MILWAUKEE CITY BUS DRIVERS (salary only):

136 Drivers made more than $70,000
54 Drivers made more than $80,000
18 Drivers made more than $90,000
8 Drivers made more than $100,000
Top Driver made $117,000 (Source WTMJ)

(The average private bus driver makes $9-13 an hour (about 20,000 yr) with
no pension, or healthcare.)"""
.
GOOD FOR THEM! I AM PROUD TO SEE THESE PROFESSIONAL ARE EARNING MIDDLE-CLASS WAGES IN THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!
.
recall walker
.
btw...those salaries are a fraction of what the ceo's at companies that are sending jobs overseas are making. A FRACTION of what the ceo TRAITORS make.

jcommon--3 really great posts in a row. Now get ready to defend yourself against Eyster. I mean fearandrhetoric. He is going to blah, blah, blah you to death in rebuttle.

Wislady - the poll you refer to is ongoing, and not in any way scientific. It only represents the opinions of those who choose to log on an answer with no mechanism to prevent multiple votes. In other words - worthless.

--

Regarding Kathleen Falk. The Tea Party folks should love her - she someone that Walker could probably beat. Ugh - the Dems are going to have to do much better than that. I really like Cullen, but he probably lack statewide name recognition. His moderate stance and willingness to work with everyone is a real refreshing change from what exists now. Barrett is probably the best choice since Feingold won't run. Kohl would be OK as well, but he has to finish his Senate term.

Keep in mind, WEA TRUST is Shelly Moore's union insurance company, a company that has obviously been ripping off the school districts for years, thanks to collective bargaining that prohibited school districts from seeking insurance coverage from any company other than WEA Trust. How much tax money would we have saved if school districts had been "allowed by the unions" to bid out their insurance over the years? I'd say probably many, many, many millions statewide. It's the union money train running off the tracks, finally, and Shelly and her union don't like it.

WANT MORE GOOD NEWS??

* Walker signed an Unemployment Insurance extension adding 13 weeks of UC benefits.

* Passed a state budget on time, without tax increases, that leaves WI in the black for the first time in over 10 years.

* Turned a $3 billion deficit into a $300 million surplus.

* Cut bonding by nearly 20%. Cut more than 1,000 government jobs, including 735 long-term vacancies. In the first 6 months of 2011 WI showed job growth more than twice the national rate.

* Protected our votes by requiring a picture I.D. at the polls.

* Became the 49th state to recognize our 2nd Amendment right to carry concealed weapons.

* Paid off WI's $60 million debt to MN under the former tax reciprocity agreement.

* Paid back over $200 million to the Injured Patients and Families Fund. This is money that Gov. Doyle unconstitutionally raided from the Patients' Compensation Fund. Walker expanded the prohibition against tax money being used to subsidize abortion.

SO WITH THE WISCONSIN TAXPAYER FINALLY IN CONTROL AND NO MORE HIGH PROPERTY TAX INCREASES EVERY YEAR, WHY ARE THE DEMOCRAT'S RECALLING GOV. WALKER - IS IT BECAUSE THEY ARE AGAINST SUCCESS AND THE VERY PEOPLE WHO PAY THEIR SALARIES,

THE WISCONSIN TAXPAYER

MORE FACTS CONTINUED
10. Wauwatosa School District - tax levy decreasing, no programs will be cut, class sizes won't increase, thanks to the reforms in collective bargaining;

11. Manitowoc - Laid-off city workers may get their jobs back due to the wage/benefit reforms contained in Walker's budget. Changes to overtime rules saving the county $100,000;

12. Pittsville - will see a 9% decrease in the school portion of their property tax levy. "This is the first year we have not needed to short-term borrow," stated Board President Strenn;

13. Appleton School District - will save $3.1 million just in health insurance costs due to being able to bid out the coverage and being able to drop WEA Trust;

14. Racine County - inmates can now be used to perform tasks such as landscaping, painting and shoveling sidewalks. Executive Ladwig states this is a win/win for the inmates and the county. It frees up county employees for other tasks, gives the inmates a sense of value, and helps the county maintain property that has been neglected."

15. Kaukauna School District - hiring additional teachers, reducing class sizes, enacting a merit pay system, and due to Walker's Budget Bill, Kaukauna's operating budget has moved from a negative $400,000 to a positive $1,500,000. Much of this savings was due to being able to drop WEA Trust.

16. Hartland School District - switched from WEA Trust and saved $690,000;

17. Hudson School District - saved $832,000 on health insurance due to ability to bid the insurance.

1. KSTP did a study of the savings in Sheila Harsdorf's 10th Senate District. They found that Ellsworth, Prescott, Menomonie, Somerset and Hudson school districts are all reporting large savings due to the changes signed into law by Gov. Walker.

Remember the following FACTS when you vote.

----- So why the Walker recall??? I received this and wanted to share it.

Why was WEA Trust Insurance allowed to rip off the Wisconsin taxpayer for so many years?

Why was the corruption allowed?

3.1 million a year saved by the Appleton School districts and thousands saved in other school districts simply by dropping WEA Trust Health Ins. How does this happen? We the Wisconsin taxpayer deserve an answer, at least an investigation. Share with other Wisconsin taxpayers so they know the truth - we're sure not getting it from our media.

EXAMPLES OF GOOD STUFF HAPPENING IN WISCONSIN:

1. Ashland School District - saved $378,000 on health insurance;

2. Kimberly School District - saved $821,000 by dropping WEA Trust Insurance;

3. Edgerton School District - dropping WEA Trust, expecting to save at least $500,000;

4. Baraboo School District - dropping WEA Trust, expecting to save at least $660,000;

5. Dodgeland School District - dropping WEA Trust, expecting to save $260,000

6. Elmbrook School District - changing health care provider, savings estimated at $878,000;

7. Mequon-Thiensville School District - saving $49,000 on dental insurance coverage;

8. Marshfield School District - saving $850,000 by dropping WEA Trust;

9. City of Sheboygan - Mayor Bob Ryan says collective bargaining reforms will provide enough savings to make up for the reduction in state aid;

I cannot believe it took me this long to figure it all out. Fearandrhetoric is Eyster!!! Eyster is fearandrhetoric!!! Get Ace Ventura on the phone immediately.

haha witchlady likes a couple of small sample polls with 500 or so voters that favors republicans!lol
Try the over one million sample that was just turned in!! Keep on trying.
Hilarious for you to link a Public Radio poll when it favors your POV for now! Absolutely predictable! Ill bet that you wish those numbers were representative of the truth, got news for you, ITS NOT!!

third eye, help me out with what is talking points and what is fact and I can start from there. I looked back at my post and am trying to find false facts, help me please.

Spark - Yes I made that leap, why? Because in the second part of your posting you rail against the "left" for the Auto bailout , which actually SAVED upwards of 2 million AMERICAN jobs!!
Yet you fail to pound the other side when the TARP bailouts were passed and signed by.....GWB to line the pockets of the very bankers who were at the forefront of the crisis with bonuses? Not to mention TARP costed the taxpayers as much as the stimulus!! Over 40 times more money than the auto bailoout, and can you tell me how many jobs were saved by the TARP policy?
I still like Andrew Napolitano and John Stewart the other night talking about Politics. Napolitano said it right," There is but ONE party in America with a right and left wing, they both believe in welfare. The right believes in corporate welfare and the left believes in personal welfare."

Must as I dislike the J Cardin program, here is the link for a poll on recalls.....

http://www.wpr.org/cardin/index.cfm?strD...

WR- Ibelieve I stated clearly that Falk would be an awful choice. Not supporting her in any way. Nor would I hold my nose and vote for her

Fear I hope you don’t think Falk has a chance in hell against Walker she would be worse than Walker is now and all republicans would have to do is bring up the Brittany Zimmerman situation and that will discredit her not to mention she resigned from office as a result of that. That would be a trump card for republicans to play. Now I have no problem with a women Governor I just don’t think Falk can beat walker in this recall election if it happens.Sorry I think the Democrats will make a better selection than Falk.

fearandrhetoric4dummies Jan 18, 2012 at 10:24 a.m.; Your 'talking points memo' is partially fact, partially opinion, mostly common democrat talking points and all have been asked and answered.

$2500 per brown bag lunch sounds pretty expensive!

Not RECALL WALKER....RECALLED WALKER!!!

Fear - At what point was I calling democrats free loaders? You just jumped to that conclusion. Taking it a little personal, aren't you? I merely was agreeing that a degree and setting your own goals, rather than expecting the Government to do so, is a good idea. Does it always work? No. But neither does sitting on your **s doing nothing and expecting something for it.
-
The left is no different in many cases than the right. I didn't have a say on my tax dollars bailing out GM and Chrysler. And NO, the loan was not paid back in full. A majority of it was put into an escrow and that money was used to pay off a small portion of it. The taxpayer will be footing the bill for roughly 14 billion. Did it need to happen? I suppose so, yes. Your poor GM management is welcome.

"At the same time that public schools are deprived of needed funds,"

Union coffers you mean....that's what it's all about fear.....must you be reminded with this video...

http://www.markhillman.com/2009/07/10/ne...

You naive if you think teacher unions care about kids....there are a lot of teachers that do but we must get rid of this necrosis in education.....freedom of choice baby....

Oh what a shock Mr Labeller doesn't like a source so its demonized as left wing hoo ha, Hilariously predictable!!
Enjoy your day, I enjoy shooting your rhetoric down. Unfortunately its becoming easier and easier.

At the same time that public schools are deprived of needed funds, the private school voucher program is given a blank check from taxpayers for unlimited enrollment in Milwaukee. This will increase funding by more than $20 million. Taxpayers pay $6,442 per voucher for a child to attend a private school, including religious schools. A family of four can earn up to $67,937 or $74,957 (depending on marital status) and receive taxpayer-funded vouchers. The program is also expanded to Racine (initially for a limited number of students), and that will cost taxpayers nearly $5 million, but much more after the enrollment cap is lifted. This is part of a national movement to slowly dismantle the public education system.

Back atcha MR Rhetoric!! Keep on Labelling!

Last thing fear, I already read that tale from left wing sidney at Salon...

Does any politician say what they're really going to do? If they ran on what they actually think, no one would get elected. They make just enough promises to just enough people to get elected, then do whatever they want. They change positions every time a new poll comes out and then we're continually surprised by their actions.

Wow, charter school is still public funds...hardly private private schools; but understanding that puts you out over your skis. Can't stay here all day exploiting the weakness and lameness of all your silly comments. I will check back later to see if you have continued with your pattern of false and misleading information or if you decided to try using real HONEST information for a change, don't worry I won't hold my breath.

http://www.salon.com/2007/09/06/bush_wmd...

Well we too shall see the end of middle eastern wars right? When? Weve benn in Afghanistan since 2003, and are leaving..........
Also seems to look more and more like we will be shifting from Afghanistan/Iraq theater , to an Iran/Syria theater. You say its not endless? I say show me an end.

WMDs were there and we knew it bc we sold it to him. Unfortunately for that claim we also had very good info that he no longer possessed them, but like you the Bush admin chose their info to use to march us in.

On Sept. 18, 2002, CIA director George Tenet briefed President Bush in the Oval Office on top-secret intelligence that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, according to two former senior CIA officers. Bush dismissed as worthless this information from the Iraqi foreign minister, a member of Saddam’s inner circle, although it turned out to be accurate in every detail. Tenet never brought it up again.

Nor was the intelligence included in the National Intelligence Estimate of October 2002, which stated categorically that Iraq possessed WMD. No one in Congress was aware of the secret intelligence that Saddam had no WMD as the House of Representatives and the Senate voted, a week after the submission of the NIE, on the Authorization for Use of Military Force in Iraq. The information, moreover, was not circulated within the CIA among those agents involved in operations to prove whether Saddam had WMD.

Fear

You are a closet socialist. Just throw money at problems, no need to think outside the box or closet....the taxpayers are a fountain of wealth to you.....

Taking State funding and moving it from public ed to private i a cut, but thats 37 million of the 1.6 BILLION dollar problem. You are the one that said ""
You cannot take from public education and give to private"
-
Another FALSE claim. Nothing was "took" from education. Your claim would fit if you were referencing moving funds from one designated fund to another...like doyle did.""
The word you were looking for was taken, but you said noting was taken. Is 37 million your idea of nothing? aparantly its nothing to give that money to private schools so they can have a lottery to see who gets in. BTW private ed largely UNDERperforms its public counterparts.
You said it was FALSE, I am here to tell you that is NOT a FALSE claim.

" Try to refute the facts in the copy and paste job"
-
Easy! The very first fact-less claim "Endless war in the middle east, started on false rhetoric of WMDs". It is not endless, since there was clearly beginnings and there will be an end. It was also not started on false rhetoric of WMDs. The same information that was provided by senior members (both parties) of the house and senate as well as your favorite Clinton's administration said the same thing. But showing your dishonesty is just to easy.

Keep using the fringe word, coming from the like of you it means nothing, nothing at all!! Labelling others seems to be your numberone priority in life lately, why?

Moving education funds from one education source to another is a cut to education? Is that some kind of new math?

""You also said these FACT-LESS opinions claiming this was all one persons fault""
RAF you make it so easy for me, seriously. Try to refute the facts in the copy and paste job. Secondly, Right in the middle of that Copy paste job it says ""BTW the financial market meltdown can be traced to the beginning of the Reagan administration and Don Regan the treasury secretary under Ron, also the former CEO of Merryl Lynch, to Bush, to Clinton, to Bush 2, to Obama, they all are responible.""

Because CLEARLY I am blaming ONE person right? Hilarious!!

Governor Walker's budget cuts
state funding to public schools by
$749 million, diverted $37 million from
public schools to new
voucher and independent charter programs,
and requires local school districts
to cut their property taxes by $326 million.
This all adds up to a loss of
revenue to public schools
of over $1.6 billion far and
away the biggest cut
to public education in
state history. Referencing a
University of Wisconsin study of the impact
of the cuts and revenue restrictions,
State Superintendent Tony Evers said
public-­‐school children could suffer
the greatest state cut to education since
the Great Depression

"What would you have to drive on then? gravel, grass?"
-
What business doesn't pay gas tax for road use fuel?

"- Unlike many of you on the right, I will not project my opinion as a FACT."
-
LOL, really you just said that, you are indeed on a troll roll today. You also said these FACT-LESS opinions claiming this was all one persons fault. You tried at one time to pretend how you were a middle of the road type of guy but your comments lately to include claiming that if FDR's 2nd bill of rights had passed our country would be better off clearly show you are one of the furthest left wing fringe characters around.

"Endless war in the middle east, started on false rhetoric of WMDs. The absolute refusal to stop the bleeding in the housing markets with needed banking regulations, further DE REGULATION of financial markets, CDOs(Collateralized Debt Obligations), Derivative trading, credit default swaps, etc.....BTW the financial market meltdown can be traced to the beginning of the Reagan administration and Don Regan the treasury secretary under Ron, also the former CEO of Merryl Lynch, to Bush, to Clinton, to Bush 2, to Obama, they all are responible.
During the Bush years is where the bubble occurred and they had plenty of warnings and could have taken action , yet didnt. Why? Ask Hank Paulson treasury secretary under Bush, also former CEO of Goldman Sachs.
TARP bailouts happened under Bush(cost more than te hated stimulus) and that money disappered into the pocket in the form of bonuses to the people that drove the economy into the gutter!!
Fannie and Freddie were taken over under the Bush administration, hmmmm.
Debt doubled under Bush. Record defecits under Bush.(Defecit spending starte under Reagan, in the name of fear(cold war)."

Lotsa forms of "double taxation". Income taxes, property taxes, gas taxes,sales tax, etc..... that is quadruple taxation just on the individual. Businesses use services and should pay for them, period. The less business pays the more individuals pay, period.
What would you have to drive on then? gravel, grass? What about garbage collection? Schools? Etc.... pay for all that with no sales tax, no property tax? Because we have an income tax? Unfortunately for your argument ezoner there is an infrastructure that most if not all of us use and should pay to use in one way or another.

Ezoner, you said, 'Walker is doing exactly what he said he would do.' Walker never said he would abolish collective bargaining rights, and he never said that he would force annual union certifications. Why can't you acknowledge that, or are you also another mis-informed Fox News viewer?

Sax- That was funny!!LOL

RAF- Unlike many of you on the right, I will not project my opinion as a FACT.
Do I believe that Walker will lose, YES. Does that mean that it WILL happen, of course NOT!! Unlike some on this thread I will not say that we need to face facts and deal with Walker being out. He has wide support in the state obviously. He may very well survive, I hope not, but he may. As long as the rubberstamp is taken away, then we can see if he actually can lead and not just project far right wing ideology on the 46+ percent of the electorate that voted against him. IMO he awoke a sleeping giant and I for one am glad he did!

Vato- I am with you in part on the rankings having Obama that high, but that doesn't illegitimize them bc I disagreee with one or 2 here or there. Look around FDR is a top 5 pres no matter what ranking you look at. Aside from maybe a Macyver instituteone, or a heritage foundation one. LOL. I guess it just depends on how you look at it, like everything, opinion.

"If you are elected by a 6 point margin, its not a mandate to blow up the state"
-
So glad the left has not forgotten the fierce vitriol complaints made after the Giffords incident...

Next time try "tooken".
It's closer.

Ezoner- Do you think Walker would have got elected if he had run on HUGE cuts to public education? If he had said in plain English it is my plan to take away CB from state employees , including Teachers , Fire, police, corrections? 2.2 million votes cast in 2010, and Walker wins by a lil over a 100k?
He did talk of financial concesions by public workers, but NOT in the context of CB , had he done that he would have lost. Now he has to run on those things and we will see the results.
BTW any of you think that the right in this state has the organization to recall a potential replacement for Walker? They tried twice to recall Doyle, a movement that Scotty supported!! Funny huh? An effort that failed miserably BOTH times!!

Fear -- my position would be that taxing business is illegal and is a form of double taxation. The income made by employees is already taxed. That income is used to buy goods and services. Therefore the money has already been taxed. You are taxing the same $dollar a second time as profits from the business side. In fact, looking at any plastic part manufactured, there are numerous costs and comapnies that play a part in that good, and everything used to manufacture that part (labor, energy, raw materials, capitol equipment, etc) must show a profit to continue operation. The same $dollar of earnings from a customer at each step in the process is taxed, including the fuel tax collected to deliver the product. Personally, I believe that this is illegal and that all taxes should be eliminated -- with the exception of income taxes or that there is a single sales tax and all income tax is eliminated. There should not be multiple levels of taxation.

Capital gains are another subject. This is money put at risk with a reward or loss based upon valuation and/or apreciation.

" You cannot take from public education and give to private"
-
Another FALSE claim. Nothing was "took" from education. Your claim would fit if you were referencing moving funds from one designated fund to another...like doyle did.

frusion, you asked, 'Are you in favor of deficit spending?' The answer is that nobody is in favor of that. What does that have to do with recalling Walker?

" more dangerous is the changes that these people have made to the state "
-
OMG! Changing the law to allow people to voluntarily join a union is dangerous to who exactly???? The rhetoric gets more insane everyday.

Third eye- I will answer that for you. Endless war in the middle east, started on false rhetoric of WMDs. The absolute refusal to stop the bleeding in the housing markets with needed banking regulations, further DE REGULATION of financial markets, CDOs(Collateralized Debt Obligations), Derivative trading, credit default swaps, etc.....
BTW the financial market meltdown can be traced to the beginning of the Reagan administration and Don Regan the treasury secretary under Ron, also the former CEO of Merryl Lynch, to Bush, to Clinton, to Bush 2, to Obama, they all are responible.
During the Bush years is where the bubble occurred and they had plenty of warnings and could have taken action , yet didnt. Why? Ask Hank Paulson treasury secretary under Bush, also former CEO of Goldman Sachs.
TARP bailouts happened under Bush(cost more than te hated stimulus) and that money disappered into the pocket in the form of bonuses to the people that drove the economy into the gutter!!
Fannie and Freddie were taken over under the Bush administration, hmmmm.
Debt doubled under Bush. Record defecits under Bush.(Defecit spending starte under Reagan, in the name of fear(cold war).

jcommon, you said ' I think this recall effort actually united the conservatives' Actually, there are quite a few real conservatives who are highly disappointed with Walker and have signed the recall petition because of the divisive results of his extremist (not conservative) policies. You would be correct in stating that the recall effort has united the Tea Partiers and the mis-informed Fox News viewers.

" I am sure that Walker will be out, BUT the most important thing for me is to take away his rubber stamp (Senate) and make him actually BE a leader from the center should he survive the recall which he may very well do."
-
Make up your mind already first you say "I am sure he will be out" and then you say "should he survive...which he may very well do."

Fear

This survey lost credibility when Obama was ranked..sorry...

I'm buying all the stock I can in Subaru and hybrids. If this recall thing goes through, the supporters will have so much money that they'll be buying them in twos.

Spark- could you please be more specific with your generalizations please? Who EXACTLY expects the "Government to take care of them"? Is it the 67% of businesses in the state that pay little or no taxes? Shifting the burden to the everyday taxpayers? Would like you to be SPECIFIC on your demographics please.
BTW calling the democratic party freeloaders is rhetoric and not by any means true. So if you want to have a discussion on entitlements and who needs them I am willing to engage in that, but not against generalizations, and blanket statements made to serve a political purpose.

This makes no sense. Walker is doing exactly what he said he would do. No tricks , no hiding the rabbitt under the hat. The fact is that the far left and unions are just upset that they are being held to the same standards as private employes. That instead of throwing money at things as a solution, that something new is being tried. Personally, I welcome the fact that Walker is moving in a new direction. People should let him complete his term and then decide during the next election.

Why not talk about the republican God Reagan as a terrible pres? Maybe because he was just the frontman?
The front man of the de regulation movement that led to the S&L scandal, and was the beginnings of the financial meltdowns that we are experiencing now!!

Scroll time people... another forum filibuster is underway by Fear and endless Rhetoric.

Fear at 9:36 am, I keep seeing this, "Bush destroyed us for generations", quote by you and others but never see a real life example.
Why is that?

fear - Please explain that to all the free loaders out there that think it's the Governments job to take care of them. Please educate them on a thing called personal accountability. Please explain to them that not every occupation is deserving of the same pay scale and that setting some personal goals will help you personally control your future and the success it can be.

FDR? Was one of the greatest presidents in our history, and most agree! Through Depression and WW2 he was elected to 4 terms! If his second bill of rights would have become reality, this country would be a far better place today.
FDRs policies too the nation from its highest debt ratio to 60 years of growth and properity.

View rankings done by educated people, something you know little about:
http://rockrivertimes.com/2010/07/02/exp...
1. Franklin D. Roosevelt (D)
2. Theodore Roosevelt (R)
3. Abraham Lincoln (R)
4. George Washington (No party affiliation)
5. Thomas Jefferson (D-R)
6. James Madison (D-R)
7. James Monroe (D-R)
8. Woodrow Wilson (D)
9. Harry S. Truman (D)
10. Dwight D. Eisenhower (R)
11. John F. Kennedy (D)
12. James K. Polk (D)
13. Bill Clinton (D)
14. Andrew Jackson (D)
15. Barack Obama (D)
16. Lyndon B. Johnson (D)
17. John Adams (Federalist)
18. Ronald Reagan (R)
19. John Quincy Adams (D-R)
20. Grover Cleveland (D)
21. William McKinley (R)
22. George H.W. Bush (R)
23. Martin Van Buren (D)
24. William Howard Taft (R)
25. Chester A. Arthur (R)
26. Ulysses S. Grant (R)
27. James A. Garfield (R)
28. Gerald R. Ford (R)
29. Calvin Coolidge (R)
30. Richard M. Nixon (R)
31. Rutherford B. Hayes (R)
32. Jimmy Carter (D)
33. Zachary Taylor (Whig)
34. Benjamin Harrison (R)
35. William Henry Harrison (Whig)
36. Herbert Hoover (R)
37. John Tyler (Whig)
38. Millard Fillmore (Whig)
39. George W. Bush (R)
40. Franklin Pierce (D)
41. Warren G. Harding (R)
42. James Buchanan (D)
43. Andrew Johnson (D

As usual Vato wrong again, statistics kinda suck when they point out your misgivings huh?

Just in case you still had some doubts, the U.S. Census Bureau has released data proving the substantial value of a college education in the United States. Workers 18 and over sporting bachelors degrees earn an average of $51,206 a year, while those with a high school diploma earn $27,915. But wait, there's more. Workers with an advanced degree make an average of $74,602, and those without a high school diploma average $18,734

Any QUESTIONS?

Let’s see Kathleen Falk for Governor let’s try out that idea for a minute. HELL NO Kathleen Falk is still being sued for the Wrongful death of Brittany Zimmerman by her family that case is still pending in court. Then she resigned as Dane county EXE without finishing her term she was reelected to fact she refused to upgrade the 911 system in 2007 which was a contributing factor in the lead to Brittany Zimmerman’s murder. To this date Brittany Zimmerman’s killer still remains at large. I will never be able to forget April 2, 2008 as long as I live. No offense Wislady I have no problem with a women being Governor I just have a problem with all the baggage Flak would bring to the election it will come back to bite her. I could not do that to my family Brittany was my cousin and I could not dishonor her memory by voting for Falk anyone else but Falk. Falk would be just as bad as Walker and would not be able to beat Walker with Brittany Zimmerman hanging over her head again that is my opinion do not forget Brittany Zimmerman.

So it seems the "balanced budget" is all in the rhetoric like EVERYTHING else in this guys arsenal.
Watched his "interview" with Greta Van Softball last night, and all he did was repeat his released statement!! I actually was lip syncing, thats how pathetic it was. Shows this guys lack of intellect. And so many of you rip on Obama for using a teleprompter?

But GAAP, an accrual accounting method, is a tighter standard that counts future liabilities that flow from past budget actions.

Examining Walker's first budget, the 2011-13 biennial budget, to see if he lived up to his promise to balance the budget using GAAP.

There's a chart every two years in the state budget demonstrating the bottom line under GAAP. The chart in the Walker administration's Budget in Brief shows that the 2011-13 budget was not close to balanced by that standard.

In fact, the document shows that based on GAAP accounting, the state would have been left with a deficit of $3 billion by 2012-13 under Walker's budget. That compares to the $2.9 billion GAAP deficit he inherited at the end of Doyle's term, the state's financial statements show.

Walker's critics didn't highlight those numbers -- it was not in their interest to call for even more cuts in the state budget.

The state budget, under the Wisconsin constitution, must be balanced. But the cash accounting method the state uses allows gimmicks to bring the budget into balance. For instance, the state has in years past shifted payments to local governments into the next fiscal year in order to make the budget appear balanced in the present, said Robert Lang, director of the non-partisan Wisconsin Fiscal Bureau.

In 2010, when he ran to succeed Doyle, Walker made an explicit promise, on his campaign website: To "require the use of generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP) to balance every state budget, just as we require every local government and school district to do."

When this goes to the polls a survey question should be included on the ballot:
"Are you in favor of deficit spending?"
I would like to see how that question would be answered.

Vato- what is more dangerous is the changes that these people have made to the state. People are emotional because it has and will negatively affect so many. Call it danger all you like. Discount the movement all you like. Again I will tell you, this should be more than anything a message to ANY politician RIGHT or LEFT, you cannot lie to the people of this state and get away with it. There is NO balanced budget. You cannot take from public education and give to private, we value it in this state. We value public education here. If you are elected by a 6 point margin, its not a mandate to blow up the state to serve your friends and political donors.

" The country wont have it after Bush destroyed us for generations."

Why don't you try FDR? He did it.....all welfare stemmed from that dictator....

"his obvious lack of education."

Stop talking about education because you fail miserably at referencing it.....

Being educated does not mean holding a degree.....many people hold degrees and they fail miserably in life......

""
You should just vote for who you want in the next election.
""

Will do just that, another couple of months. The sooner the better.

mteg-Facts? The only facts I will face is a million signatures. But hey keep counting your chickens before they hatch. Its worked for you till this point. Keep underestimating the movement, heck I even did. Maybe you should face some facts that your Governor is in BIG BIG trouble, and he knows it.
Walker for pres? Yes please Run, run right out of the state. He would have a campaign similar to that of Rick Perry look stupid and show his obvious lack of education. Cant be a dummy and run for pres anymore. The country wont have it after Bush destroyed us for generations.

"RAF_ LOL at the absolute FACT that this was a grass roots movement? Coming from a volunteer I can tell you that this was COMPLETELY local organization that got this together."

This is nothing but people running on fear and emotions.......it is dangerous....

So,
Falk wants to run for gov,
Cullen wants to run for gov,
Will all recall supporters stand for one DEM? I think this recall effort actually united the conservatives just as much as it has united liberals. Or did it just divide Wisconsin even more, like you claimed Walker did. Maybe the campaign slogan should be "Hypocrisy at work!"

Government employees have a host of protections not available to most workers. You really can't get a "civil servant" fired or disciplined for cause. They don't need to be unionized on top of it.
-
I'm not a big fan of Governor Walker, but this recall is just BS and will cost us all $9M for no good reason. What a waste! Shame on you people. You should just vote for who you want in the next election.

I vote- Lets just get it straight I am no union worker sorry to disappoint your prejudice, AND I fully know and understand the NUMBERS and the facts of what has happened here. 1 mil+ for the governator, but unlike you I am not just having a narrowed focus on that race. I am sure that Walker will be out, BUT the most important thing for me is to take away his rubber stamp (Senate) and make him actually BE a leader from the center should he survive the recall which he may very well do.
I can tell you this, another person I would not vote for is Falk, NO WAY ON EARTH. Like Barrett she can be a hypocrite of the highest order. I am hearing rumblings of a republican primary, would be interesting to see who that might include.
RAF_ LOL at the absolute FACT that this was a grass roots movement? Coming from a volunteer I can tell you that this was COMPLETELY local organization that got this together. NOW thw PACs are coming from both sides to tear apart these candidates, and I for one am not going to be watching much TV or listening to much radio. Just because your hero the Eagle scout says this is a national movement against him , he may be right in the end, but this stage was driven by the people. Over a million by my count.

WALKER FOR PRESIDENT!!!

RETAIN WALKER!!!!!!!

I guess when Walker wins best 2 out of 3, they will want to do best 3 out of 5. Face the facts, Walker is here to stay....Thank God for that!

Jcommon I agree let’s hold the election right now and get it over with this is taking way to long. Justsomeguy if by chance Walker does win I hope there is not another recall because there expensive and you have take time to verify every signature. I am tired of waiting let’s really see if Walker stays or goes and settle this once and for all and you watch how many people complain when it comes time to pay for this recall where does anyone think that money will come from that’s right out of our pockets. This is the price that will be paid for this recall.

DickTracy, I guess you're afraid of the facts. Regardless, your response proves my point - like I said, "self-righteous, vindictive unionites". And just for the record, I've been gainfully employed for 30 years, in both the public and private sectors. So, once again, you are wrong.

Falk runs for Governor

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/137563...

Spark

I think it is pathetic that these recall supporters have to rely on government to save them. That tells me a lot about what drives the weak.....pretty shallow when they think the road to the kingdom begins with elected officials.....my future does not depend on who the Governor of WI is......

DickTracy, your response proves my point - like I said, "self-righteous, vindictive unionites"

Gandalf,
Didn't you establish that there will be an recall election with the declaration that you had enough recall sigs? So, how much time do you want? You should have all this figured out right? Or are you a little worried that your "solidarity" might not run that deep. Who will your candidate be.

What's funny is, I have friends that are democrats. We don't agree on everything, but we stay civil and even they can admit the hypocrisy within their own party when it comes to many topics that are used as an argument. They know it's a two sided street and both are guilty. They understand the left are just as guilty at telling you how to spend your money. Why? Because it's all politics!!!! Unfortunately many others can see the same. I could care less whether you support Walker or not. At the end of the day, my life will be the same. That's the beauty of it.

Gandalf:What's the matter, put in perspective it kind of takes the wind from your sails huh? Let's see 27,000 people actually took time and went to a specific place on 1 particular day to vote to support Walkers rival yet only 21,000 out of over 88,000 registered voters in Rock County that were subjected to this crap everyday for months, actually / supposedly took a pen to paper & put their name on the petition.

Gandalf......Are you an idiot? Don't bother answering-- I already know the answer to that one:) I thought I made it fairly clear in my post, I could care less about deflecting criticism.......what I do enjoy doing is pointing out the blatant hypocrisy which exists within the anti-Walker community. It's really telling of the character of many of these people.
I'll be waiting for the link to your "note to gazette readers" warning us of Obama's association to these horrible people Sarah........

jcommon, actually you first establish that there will be an election, then the candidates declare. No candidate is going to declare for a hypthetical election. Nice try though with you trite 'words of wisdon' cliche.

916WI, your weak attempt at deflecting criticism of Walker's traveling around the nation to beg for legal bribes by saying that Obama did it, too, is a tired Republican strategy that just doesn't cut the mustard any longer. This recall is all about Walker. It has nothing to do with Obama.

Alright,
You got the signatures. Lets hold the election ASAP. Who's on the ballot for governor?
Walker vs ???
I thought so. Always putting the cart before the horse. Pathetic.

I'm curious, if Walker gets re-elected, will there be a re-recall effort initiated?

RECALL WALKER!

tiredofhearingit, why would you compare the number of Barrett votes in the last election in Rock County to the number of recall signatures gathered in Rock County? To draw any type of conclusion from such a comparison is pointless. I think you've just provided a good example of the illogical thought processes that today's faux-conservatives and Tea Partiers are so good at.

1 MILLION SIGNATURES! Wow, that's something. That means there could have been 400,000 duplicate signatures by someone named "Smart Walker Supporter"- a person who clearly doesn't exist- and there would still be plenty of valid signatures remaining to recall this joker. Great job Wisconsin!

sarah......Your "NOTE TO GAZETTE READERS" is yet another example of your complete ignorance and hypocrisy. Can you please point me to the outrage you displayed when your hero Obama happily accepted a check of over $100,000 from AIG for his campaign?? Surely you released a note warning Gazette readers about the "wrong crowd" our president is hanging out with. I guess to Obama money is everything....

Go ahead & enjoy your moment - it wont last. First of all you've had months to prepare for this & still got LESS signatures than Tom Barrett did in Rock Co. and he only had 1 day in a certifiable election. 21,000 recall "signatures" vs. 27,000 votes for Tom Barrett in Rock County. Wow I'm impressed - Not!

Oh Boo-hoo. It is kind of fun watching the teabaggers whine and cry about the recall. Tag- your turn to squirm. See you at the polls!

WHAT A BUNCH OF LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!

Funny how all of you liberals are complaining about 2500 dollar fundraiser dinners and large donations to republican fundraisers. What about all of the money that they unions and large donations that the liberals receive? What a bunch of hypocrites!

oldvet, you stated that 'All this will do is insure that the next left wing nut Governor of Wisconsin will also be recalled.' The problem with that statement is that today's so-called Republican party, which is a mockery of the traditional Republican party and conservatism, would not be able to mount a true grassroot recall signature drive. To do so requires a lot more than Koch brother money.

RAF, I read the article link that you posted, and I don't see anything racist. Why would you make such a charge? You used to post things with at least a little substance, now the best you do is the nonsensical OWSDEM.

I RECALL...... These are the people that want to recall Governor Walker. Do you recall?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg-x3_zvG...

A million signatures, multitude faked. If ID was requested you would have about 500,000. You have to remember that you have done nothing but collect signatures. You have to put up a viable candidate (which there is none) Cullen is not viable TO THE WHOLE STATE, who else is there.. Oh yeah, I hear that Blagojevich is available for the right price. Hear the union goons now getting him a legal wisconsin address

I see the rightie squealing has subsided a bit in the face of "Unseated Governor Walking" but it's good to see a few of the regular anti-labor elitists still chirping.

fearandrhetoric4dummies - you must be one of those lazy union people. If you knew how to read you would see that the 1.9 million was total for all recall efforts not just Scott Walker. Slow down and pay attention. RETAIN WALKER! RETAIN WALKER! RETAIN WALKER! RETAIN WALKER!!!!!!!!

All this will do is insure that the next left wing nut Governor of Wisconsin will also be recalled.

Interesting...96 comments and two people who just yesterday were claiming that the recall people would never get enough signatures...are strangely missing...

Sad, pathetic, and racist. This describes the uncivil behavior of the OWSDEM recall brigade during the longest running statehouse ceremony honoring MLK at our state house this week.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/g...

"Businesses are leaving the state under total Republican control, so what your excuse? I though we were Open for Business?"
-
So what exactlty are you complaining over? You also complain about walker and his corporate givaways. At least find a position, other than I hate walker, and make it. This constant blather shows clearly this has nothing to do with facts and everything to do with your party politics.

justsomeguy - That's all well and good if your employer is paying you a decent wage to live on. The issue I have is when these CEO's and "partners" are making mega millions in salary and benefit packages and yet many of these companies close their doors and layoff thousands of workers. I feel that it is wrong that these people continue to amass huge wealth at the expense of their work force. They then tend to take on jobs as CEO's for other companies and the process again tends to repeat itself. As I said, the rich continue to get rich at the expense of their work force. If that doesn't bother you, I don't know what to say.

"grass roots"
-
LOLOLOLOLOL

My apologies wislady....you must be out of town and missed this article!

I haven't even read a single comment yet, but I would bet anything that wislady was one of the first people on here claiming they are all false signatures!

Fedup, Yeah me too Im guessing a million are legal, since OVER a million were submitted. But all they need is 540k + and they should just stop verifying them after that and get the election on!! Then you and your garble can calm down when you are wrong as usual.

I Vote- I have never had to copy and paste my own post but.....""1.9 MILLION total signatures turned in today, all due to GRass roots politics!! Proud to be a Wisconsinite!! Democracy lives, right here in Wisconsin!!""
Able to read it this time? that was 1.9 million TOTAL. Pretty clear, next time the twisting should be left to yourself, k?

I Vote 1.9 million total signatures turned in today, gotta re-read the post. Walker, Kleefisch, and 4 senators recalled. The recall movement collected almost 2 million signatures. Next time read more slowly.
Oh yeah BTW way to downplay a million+ of those being for your beloved Eagle Scout. Frightened?? Should be.

Hedgehog, you commented before about employers getting rich off the backs of us poor schmucks. I want my employer to get rich. It provides me job security. I've worked for companies that weren't successful and it negatively affected my standard of living. So by all means, I want my business owner to be wealthy and keep paying me my middle class salary.

If I average $50K a year over my 40+ years of employment, I'll make over $2 million in my lifetime. Add to that my health insurance (partially paid by my employer), 401(k) match, and other benefits, and I ask you, what do I have to complain about? If my wife works too, double those amounts. If I can't make a decent living on $4 million+ in my lifetime, that's a "me" problem. Why should I care if others have more than me? I'm certainly not going to play the victim.

Maine2010 sounds just a little jealous that he wasn't smart enough to become a teacher or bus driver or "garbage man".

Over a million signatures, this is a grass roots victory by the citizens of Wisconsin. These are signatures not poisoned by the Kochs or AIG. RECALL WALKER! RECALL WALKER! RECALL WALKER! RECALL WALKER! RECALL WALKER! RECALL WALKER!

Gandalf, my bad, I guess I misread your post. My apologies.

Gandolf, was that jib intended for me? I guess you're right. I can see your point that most working in the public sector require more intelligence as our jobs are way more specialized. Thanks for pointing that out for me. I hope I get you to bag my groceries the next time I shop at Woodmans!

Maine2010, nearly everyone understands that a simple comparison between public vs private pay means nothing because there is not a job-for-job equivalency. In other words, for example, there are no Assistant District Atty's in the private sector, just as their are no grocery stockers in the public sector. This makes your parotted analysis worthless and a waste of time and thought, and it makes your sheer profundity a joke. Can't you share some original ideas of some sort that may be of value to the topic at-hand?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpar...

I just love the radio ads I've been hearing claiming that Walker has saved Wisconsin tax payers $840 million dollars by making public employees contribute more into their retirement, just as the private has been doing for years. I'd like to see these actual fabricated numbers.

Maine,
"Only 12% of Wisconsin residents work in the pubic sector." That is exactly the point that is pissing people off in this state. Your savior is trying to balance the budget on the backs of 12%. And actually it is alot less than that because he excused police and fire for now because of the obvious potential fallout. That is ok to you? Those worthless overpaid, slob teachers should pay their fair share. " In the bleak fiscal landscape of our nation's future, public sector pay isn't really the problem. It's those benefits" Guess what, they pay taxes too, the same as you. Fair share would be everyone contributing to balance the budget. Not 8% of the population. Maybe people should be wondering why your benefits are going to crap while your bosses keep getting richer and richer and don't pay any taxes instead of trying to bring everyone down to the bottom. Stop believing everything you hear on Fox and try thinking for yourselves. Try to make lives better instead of trying to make them worse. It is so hypocritical of you to complain about the welfare democrats that just sit there and don't try to make their lives better, yet if you look in the mirror that is exactly what you are doing only worse. You are trying to make others worse while complaining because they have something you don't.

fear - you mean all due to union lies and fake signatures. Cant wait to learn the real number of fake names and dups.

fearandrhetoric4dummies- it was not 1.9 million for Walker. Also remember that over a million people voted for Walker!!

I vote- lets say that 10,000 people did what happened to your friend, that still leaves over a million to go, so again, how are you going to get rid of enough to stop this? YOU ARENT!!! Enoough already, let the campaign begin!!

1.9 MILLION total signatures turned in today, all due to GRass roots politics!! Proud to be a Wisconsinite!! Democracy lives, right here in Wisconsin!!

I for one hope that the nation wide movements come on in on both sides and TEAR apart Walker and whomever runs on the otherside. Then we too shall see what happens!

Maine2010 - You can throw around all the BS you want on the WRS fund. It has been solvent for years and has grown due to employee contributions though consessions (no pay increases in lieu of contributions to the retirement system). That sounds like smart money management on the part of public employees. Of course Walker wants to get his hands on that money and let his chronies manage it (or should I say steal it)! Don't cry and complain because the public sector seems to manage money better than the business you work for!

How are they gonna weed out the signatures of people that didn't actually sign it but they are on it. I work with a guy who didn't want to sign it and he found out that his dad signed his name for him?????????? I can see alot of loop holes on these signatures. Do you really think that these people checked everyone's ID's?? I think they also need to call all signatures to make sure that they actually signed this!!!!

lets be clear here HE DID NOT BALANCE ANYTHING!!
Just because they keep saying it doesn't mean its true by any stretch!:
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/prom...

Walker says we can trust him because his father was a preacher. That is like Satan tell us to trust him because his father was God.

Lets review: Walker demands 140 million in give backs by state workers (not counting the destruction of union, Local workers etc etc) so he can balance the budget. The very next thing we hear is he is trying to give away 200 million with a corporate welfare scheme.
"“The bill ... is the most dubious giveaway I’ve seen since I’ve been in the legislature,” said State Senator Glenn Grothman (R-West Bend). “The thing about this I consider almost scandalous is unlike a normal venture capitalist who is going to bat with someone else’s money and is returning to you 80 percent of your profit or getting the principal back to you, they just got what amounts to taxpayer money,” Grothman told WUWM." http://www.biztimes.com/news/2011/6/10/n...

This is his pattern He must go.

If you look at maine's profile-It pastes the EXACT same garble everysingle time. What a joke!! Hey maine over a MILLION people signed. Thats 23% of the electorate! And you know that more than that will be voting. Scott Walker is scared now more than ever!!

Maine2010 is recycling the same much-too-long crap he/she posted previously. Anybody reading it?

Thanks, garyprimer, for at least coming close to the right word: "snake" almost does it, but falls short because real snakes (unlike Mr. Walker) are honorable creatures. Other words I can think of that fit are not printable here.

Go recall!

Wow, Maine. What think tank site are you on?

For the win - Mercy CEO pay, Janesville WI $3.6 Million.

Part I of II: No Taxpayer Subsidies for Public Employee Unions (The Goldwater Institute, Oct. 28, 2011): Arizona may be a right-to-work state, but a new investigation by the Goldwater Institute shows that public-employee unions still wield outsized influence on elected officials-and they are using that power to feather their own nests. Reporter Mark Flatten's investigation shows that Phoenix taxpayers are picking up the tab for the full salary and benefits of some city employees who do nothing but union work while on the clock. Unions that represent city workers have used their clout to negotiate contracts with the city that pay union bosses to do union business. This cost taxpayers $3.7 million last year, and allowed the unions that represent city workers to rack up as many as 73,000 hours doing union business at taxpayer expense. Flatten also reveals that Phoenix is only the tip of the iceberg. Similar contracts exist between public-sector unions and the cities of Tempe, Mesa, Chandler and Glendale. Among major valley cities, only Scottsdale has refused to offer unions this perk. The reason for such taxpayer abuse is simple: Public-sector unions essentially vote for their bosses. Every elected official knows his or her political future may be determined by union turnout and behind-the-scenes campaigning during the next election. And this is particularly true in city elections, held in off-years when turnout is low, government insider interest is high, and the power of special interests such as government-employee unions is magnified. Not surprisingly, many elected officials choose to act in accordance with union desires-and approving contracts that pay union management with taxpayer dollars is just one example of government waste caused by union influence.

Part II of II: No Taxpayer Subsidies for Public Employee Unions: But in today's tough times, state and local governments are coming to realize that the old way of smoothing-over labor relations with unearned pay and benefits is no longer feasible. Increasingly, they understand that public-sector unions have used collective bargaining and its close cousin, "Meet and Confer" negotiations, as political devices to secure outsized compensation packages and benefits. More and more elected officials realize they now have no choice but to structurally reform the public-sector labor relationship to eliminate structural deficits and avoid chaos in government finances. As a result, particularly in Wisconsin and Ohio, there has been an explosion of legislative activity and interest aimed at restricting the ability of public employees to bargain collectively. In a forthcoming policy report, the Goldwater Institute will fully assess the burden public sector unions impose on taxpayers. It will underscore that there is a huge distinction between unions in the public sector and unions in the private sector. Public-sector unions are labor monopolies in a situation where the government is also a monopoly supplier of their services. It is far too easy for union labor and government management to collude and pass excessive costs onto the taxpayer. Moreover, no less than elected officials, public employees are trustees of the power delegated by citizens to the government. Public-sector unions violate a basic public trust when they use collective bargaining to secure one-sided and obviously unsustainable benefits. For these reasons and others, the Goldwater Institute recommends that Arizona join North Carolina and other states that completely prohibit state and local government officials from contracting with public employee unions, requiring all employment relationships to be individually negotiated.

Part I of II: Wisconsin and the Crisis of Public Sector Pay: Public employees earn more than their private-sector counterparts. This is true from Washington on down. Federal employees earn an average of $120,000 in pay and benefits, double the private sector average. The disparity is less at the state level, but in Wisconsin the average full-time state employee earns over $70,000 in pay and benefits, about $15,000 more than the average private-sector employee. Public workers are quick to point out that they are better educated than their private counterparts, and when you adjust for education, they actually make slightly less. This ignores the fact that most of those public workers at the state level are school teachers. If it's unfair to compare college-educated and high school-educated workers, it's also unfair to compare education and engineering majors. All college degrees aren't the same. State and Federal governments absorb more than their fair share of "soft" degrees. In the bleak fiscal landscape of our nation's future, public sector pay isn't really the problem. It's those benefits. Public employees get defined-benefits retirement programs, while the vast majority of private employers offer defined-contribution programs. The former guarantee you a certain level of income; the latter collect set contributions from employees with no guarantees of any particular return. In the case of Wisconsin's public employees, defined benefits come with no contribution from the workers—none at all—years and decades of income for free, or if you prefer, for the extra income those teachers and sociologists could get if they worked for private firms in Milwaukee and Green Bay.

Part II of II: Wisconsin and the Crisis of Public Sector Pay: Some public employees in New York and California are retiring at 50 with $100,000 pensions and more. In some cases they get these pensions after only a few years on the job, though it's rare to become vested with fewer than ten years of service. Unfunded public pension liabilities across the country are at the very least in the trillions of dollars, the numbers varying hugely depending on how strict the accounting standards you apply happen to be. According to the standards businesses use, it's estimated they double our national debt. These pension liabilities are a loaded gun aimed at every statehouse in the country, at hundreds of cities and thousands of towns. Asking public sector employees in Wisconsin to contribute a 5.8% of their pay into their pensions (the national average for the private sector) is probably the very least the state's taxpayers should ask. Asking them to pay 12% of their health insurance costs (about half the national average for the private sector) is also a minimal demand. Neither seems sufficient provocation to compare Walker to Hitler or pretend that Madison is Cairo. Most of us would be delighted to get what the Wisconsin public employees will be offered under Walker's plan. We don't empathize strongly with people who get raises during recessions (as Federal workers have) and who get retirement benefits that we have to pay for. We shouldn't begrudge public workers a decent wage and a fair pension, but public workers are only a privileged class in places like Egypt and France. When President Obama reminds us that public-sector workers are our neighbors and friends, he might remember that we're their neighbors and friends, too, and fair goes both ways. The private sector can't carry the public sector in the style to which it's becoming accustomed. It will have to start carrying itself. And the irony of that will surely be lost on the revolutionaries in Wisconsin.

AVERAGE WAGE AND BENEFITS (remember this is for about 9 months of work)

TEACHERS:

Milwaukee $86,297
Elmbrook $91,065
Germantown $83,818
Hartland Arrwhd $90,285 (highest teacher was $122,952-lowest was
$64,942)
Men Falls $81,099
West Bend $82,153
Waukesha $92,902
Sussex $82,956
Mequon $95,297
Kettle Mor $87,676
Muskego $91,341

STAFF:
Arrowhead - Bus mgr. - Kopecky - $169,525
Arrowhead - Principal - Wieczorek - $152,519
Grmtwn - Asst Princ - Dave Towers - $123,222
Elmbrk - Burliegh Elemetary - Principal Zahn- $142,315 (for a primary
school!!)
Madison - Asst Principal - McGrath - $127,835

UNIVERSITY of WISCONSIN STAFF (2009) (salary alone):

Michael Knetter - Prof of Bus - $327,828
Carolyn Martin -Chancellor Mad- $437,000
Hector Deluca - Prof of Nutritional Science - $254,877 (really??)

(source:Madison.com

-as the UW removed salaries from being posted online in 2007- why if they
are so low?)

How about some other "public servant job" ??? What do they make?

Madison Garbage men (2009) (salary only):

Garbageman, Mr. Nelson earned $159,258 in 2009, including $109,892 in
overtime and other pay.
Garbageman, Greg Tatman, who earned $125,598
Madison garbage men made over $100,000
30 Madison garbage men made over $70,000

MILWAUKEE CITY BUS DRIVERS (salary only):

136 Drivers made more than $70,000
54 Drivers made more than $80,000
18 Drivers made more than $90,000
8 Drivers made more than $100,000
Top Driver made $117,000 (Source WTMJ)

(The average private bus driver makes $9-13 an hour (about 20,000 yr) with
no pension, or healthcare.)

“Walker’s campaign spokeswoman Ciara Matthews said he was not available for comment Tuesday.”
.
Why is it that the only peple that are ever available for comment are the ones posting on here?

Only 12% of Wisconsin residents work in the pubic sector. The 88% majority is fed up with all of the public sector financial abuses. If the tiny 12% minority segment can outrepresent the huge majority 88% group, then it is is high time the public tyrants (who are supposed to be public servants) are finally dealt with. It doesn't matter WHO deals with them, as long as it happens.

Unions - do wisconsin a big favor - STEP ASIDE.

Mine went up as well fedup, the "tools" rhetoric has NOTHING to do with it. My home was re-assesed along with everyone elses around here. Mine went up over 700 bucks , first significant rise in property taxes in 10 years. The stupidity of the act 10 rhetoric is just LAUGHABLE!!!

garyprimer - Walker is good for wisconsin. The pilfering union puppet masters are the crooks here.
.
VOTE FOR WALKER

Looking at the people carrying the boxes, if you look real close you can see the puppet strings attached to their wrists.

Thehedgehog - I think you are being dishonest with your claim. Unless of course you are in a district that could not use the tools of Act 10 to reduce the gouging union contracts.

nemesis - Funny, my taxes went up about $500.00 dollars with Walker in office!

""
Who wants welfare fear?
""
Under this administration? Coporations. 67% of them in Wisky pay no taxes, who do you think makes up the difference? I am more surprised that "taxpayers" aren't more outraged at the corporate welfare state that we have here in Wisconsin. Any new business that comes here, gets 2 years of welfare. You cool with that? Do businesses not use services? Why on Earth should they get services for free(on the taxpayer) for 2 years? Especially when we are supposedly in a budget crunch.

"Nemesis- Businesses are leaving the state under total Republican control, so what your excuse? I though we were Open for Business? Guess not!!"

Who wants welfare fear?

Better than a liar...

All of you people right and left
are getting caught up in the crap
that both sides are throwing
like some major attraction at the zoo.
It's not about Obama, it's not about Doyle,
it's not about Thompson -- it's about Walker.
Dem or Republican,
the guy is a snake,
not to be trusted,
got to go.

Lets see him run on 1+ billion cuts to publicc education, lets see him run on 67% of companies in Wisky not paying taxes. Good luck on that one!!

Scott Walker should resign and save the state $9 million. He's our Governor but he is in the back pocket of his campaign contributors, the Koch Brothers and out-of-state interests -bought and paid for. So he needs to come clean how much he's raking in under the table. And how much of his salary he is cutting and donating to our broke state cost instead of passing the $9 million cost on to the taxpayers.

Resign or Recall - the choice is Walker's.

I love the evolution of the righties during this 60+ days:
"theyll never get it"
to " The signatures are all fakes",
to " They never win"
to........
to........
And the hits keep on rolling.
What excuses will evolve after he loses? LOL!
Its not ONLY unions , its GRASS ROOTS politics!! Republicans tried to recall Doyle twice and couldnt get 80,000 signatures!! Funny!!

Nemesis- Businesses are leaving the state under total Republican control, so what your excuse? I though we were Open for Business? Guess not!!

Hey Hedge - then who do the dems have as a possible replacement. Someone like Jim Doyle or Kathleen Falk..? All of the dem alternatives will bring back higher taxes, more regulation, and will wonder why people and businesses leave the state.

"Unseated Governor Walking"

nemesis - And how many Republicans are in the back pockets of special interest groups? Until special interest / union monies on both sides of the isle are not allowed in any election process, nothing will change!

Mike Tate should resign. He's the dem chair but he is in the back pocket of unions - bought and paid for. So he needs to come clean how much he makes in union salary. And how much of his salary he is donating to the recall cost instead of passing the $9 million cost on to the taxpayers.

What hard work? He has been touring the nation raising money. Spending more time in other states than here. Only fitting that on the day the signatures are submitted he is at a fundraiser in NY!!!
TCB, you are smarter than that and dont have to follow the rhetoric. Hard work and balanced budgets? Next thing I am going to hear is that there was "double digit" tax increases. My property taxes went up significantly for the first time THIS YEAR! in the 10 years that I have owned my home, so sell that igloo to a different eskimo.

$2,500.00 a plate dinner? We all know who can afford those kind of prices, corporate fat cats and Koch type hulligans! Amazing how you middle class Republicans buy into this ideology. The rich continue to get rich at YOUR expense and then blame public sector employees and unions for your woes. Blame your rich employers (if you work for any of the big corporations) for putting the screws to you! And I'm not talking about small business that employs 10 or less people.

hE BALANCED THE BUDGET? hMMM pOLITIFACT RATES THAT AS false!
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/prom...

We examined Walker's first budget, the 2011-13 biennial budget, to see if he lived up to his promise to balance the budget using GAAP.

There's a chart every two years in the state budget demonstrating the bottom line under GAAP. The chart in the Walker administration's Budget in Brief shows that the 2011-13 budget was not close to balanced by that standard.

In fact, the document shows that based on GAAP accounting, the state would have been left with a deficit of $3 billion by 2012-13 under Walker's budget. That compares to the $2.9 billion GAAP deficit he inherited at the end of Doyle's term, the state's financial statements show.

Let's see..... They needed signatures equal to 25% of those who voted in the last gubernatorial election, and came up with approximately 50%. Even assuming some of those are duplicate or invalid, we're still talking on the order of half of those voters who bothered to sign petitions. And certainly, those who signed petitions do not represent 100% of those who oppose Walker and will vote against him.

Further, based on grumblings in my own workplace and at large, a fair number of people who did vote for Walker lived to regret it and will not repeat the mistake. By contrast, virtually nobody who voted against him last time will now switch sides and vote for him.

Remember, this isn't entirely just about what the Governor has done, but also about how he did it. He himself has admitted that he "could have sold" his actions better, but the fact is that he made no attempt to sell them at all. He simply used force of numbers without meaningful debate or discussion, and all other opinions be damned. Unfortunately, he and his supporters continue to pursue an agenda aimed at doing as much damage as humanly possible while they're still in power.

Time will tell, but hope springs eternal that this will soon come to an end.

Walker has finished the hard work. He balanced the budget. Its amazing that dems want to recall a governor who won and is doing exactly what he said he would do.

The labor unions have already been defeated-even if they are successful in removing a widely successful governor in the process.

cottonjoe - You're the typical right-wing doof that thinks because you pay taxes, you are paying for public employees wages and benefits. Guess what pal, public employees pay taxes too, but the thing is, once you pay your taxes, it is no longer "YOUR" money so that lame argument holds about as much water as your grade school bladder. Just the same typical right-wing attitude, "If I can't have it, then neither can you!" If public sector employees have it sooooooo good, then why haven't you applied for a job? My guess is you never have (so stop complaining) or you couldn't get hired based on a pitiful work history (better luck next time).

"slavery...really...your an idiot" Any idiot knows that "your" should be "you're".

"slavery...really...your an idiot" Any idiot knows that "your" should be "you're".

am I? What do you call millionares that wish to pay workers barely enough to live on much less raise a faimly. Not to mention little if any benefits. That is what the CEOs/owners want. Got to make the poor poorer so we can get richer. Gotta pay for those trips to the caribean while the slaves, er, I mean 'workers' make me millions. Then they can eat Walkers hot dog for 2,500.
It's clear your the idiot!

Out of state raising money to defend himself? Cant find enough money in state? hhhhhmmmmm

totellthetruth, it's true. When I play "RECALL WALKER" backwards, it says "REKLAW LLACER", which is a very disturbing message sure to corrupt our young people.

"It just goes to show how the appeal of his views spans all sectors of economic classes........"
Get a clue! Any middle class or lower classes don't have 2,500 to spend on a self absorbed idiot! So that means it's only the 1% eating his hot dogs. You know, the 1% who wants slavery back in America.

Look ALL OF SATAN'S minions hard at work.

I don't know Badger, I would NEVER spend $2500 a plate for any candidate. I think it's awesome that people who have the resources to do so, share Walker's view regarding the direction the state's government should take though! It just goes to show how the appeal of his views spans all sectors of economic classes........

Exactly Badger. The GOP authoritarians complain about the money it could cost to have a LEGAL election, but have no qualms about making and taking in millions of $ in donations for such an election. Be a man Walker. Step Aside.

I have a question for the Walker supporters on the gazette?.....What is on the menu at your $2500 dollar per person dinners at your Walker fundraisers?

Walker should do the state a HUGE favor and resign.

If Scott Walker is so confident that he will beat the RECALL....then quit the delay tactics, legal actions....and his "out-of-state" fund raising tour to fight the people of WISCONSIN. (Ironic that Scott Walker is in New York today at a $2,500/plate fund-raiser. Hmmmm)

GO BADGERS....we're taking our state back! Let's vote NOW. ON WISCONSIN!

Walker begs New Yorkers and Wall Street to protect him from out-of-state forces. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/17...

Scott Walker has to go. He's half way out the door. Finish the good fight. FORWARD, march.

A complete waste of $9 million of taxpayer money by a group of self-righteous, vindictive unionites who didn't get their way. I wonder how they're going to feel when Governor Walker wins again? I think it's apparent that reasonable, clear-thinking people in Wisconsin see the facts and that tough choices had to be made for the greater good. Just take a look at what's happening in Illinois with its government finances....it now has the worst bond rating in the country. Wisconsin would be in a similar predicament were it not for Gov. Walker's leadership. Let's face it, the recall election is orchestrated by the unions and people who want something for nothing. Times have changed, folks, so you better get used to paying your fair share. I for one am tired of paying for your inflated salaries and benefits.

This is why I hate recall election they said in the article The Government Accountability Board has said its review will take 60 days or more and it will go to court this week to seek a delay beyond the 31 day review required under the law. This is the waste of time I am talking about I am tired of waiting to see if he stays or goes now they have to go beyond the 31 days to 60 days this may or may not be done until April 3,2012. Now I asked before how much this will cost and who is paying for this recall no on still knows. After that who knows when the actual election will be I just want this dam thin over and done with at this point and I am just frustrated with all of it the cost and the length of time and the experts that think they know it all. That is why I said hell with it let’s just have the election now and decide this once and for all who is going to be the Governor.

should say just almost as many before you jump on that :)

vat - well obviously it is not only union people upset if 12% of WI is in a union - 23% of eligible voters signed petition; so in reality more non-union people signed petition than did!

"I love to read how this is getting under some Walker supporters skins. Keep making fun of normal, middle class people - you're just making this recall process so much sweeter for us!"

You sound like you think all "normal, middle class people" want to see Walker recalled? That's not the case at all. You certainly don't represent me, a "normal middle class" person.

" By the way, most of the people who want to see Walker gone are not public employees"

Prove it.......12% belong to public sector unions...that's who is crying and throwing tantrums........I gotta give it to them...they have done an ok job of playing the victim card......lots of blind feeble minded people who are believing the public sector crowd....

ImBack, gosh, you certainly are into hate-speech when you say 'Happy fat white people, probably government employees'. They look like they're normal people with beautiful smiles to me. By the way, most of the people who want to see Walker gone are not public employees. Your unhappy attitude is reflective of today's faux-conservatives and Tea Party types who simply don't fit with the Wisconsin tradition.

By Associated Press

I love to read how this is getting under some Walker supporters skins. Keep making fun of normal, middle class people - you're just making this recall process so much sweeter for us!

saxcat70 , you are right!! With all these whiners looking for a handout, what will be left for the corporate giveaways!

"Watch out GOP we are on the ground. . . I love Wisconsin!"

You got that right...you love holding people on the ground......you gotta get votes from somewhere.....

so Walker complains about outside money while he is out of state raising money to support him. . . boots on the ground will beat high-priced ad's in the media. Watch out GOP we are on the ground. . . I love Wisconsin!

They are having a big brotherhood potluck.....

In the picture, there are words written on the boxes. the first one says WE, the second says LOVE, and I'm not quite sure, but I think the third one says WELFARE