Swiss, of course it's a tax. the Solicitor General argued it was a tax, the Supreme Court said it's a tax. Even Romney says it's a tax. Nobody is saying it's not a tax. Regardless of what Obama said 2 years ago, everyone knows the truth.

dtb - That was exactly my point. Supposedly it's not a tax, however, they put the IRS in charge?? Ha!

Medical Tourism [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tou... ]

"Medical tourism (also called medical travel, health tourism or global healthcare) is a term initially coined by travel agencies and the mass media to describe the rapidly-growing practice of travelling across international borders to obtain health care."

"A McKinsey and Co. report from 2008 found that a plurality of an estimated 60,000 to 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care; the same McKinsey study estimated that 750,000 American medical tourists traveled from the United States to other countries in 2007 (up from 500,000 in 2006)."

"Canada has entered the medical tourism field. In comparison to US health costs, medical tourism patients can save 30 to 60 percent on health costs in Canada."

"Americans, particularly those living near the Mexican border, now routinely cross to Mexico for medical care. Popular specialties include dentistry and plastic surgery. Mexican dentists often charge one-fifth to one-fourth of US prices, while other procedures typically cost a third what they would in the US. In Texas, legislators explored the possibility of allowing health maintenance organizations to operate on both sides of the border."

"Cuba has been a popular medical tourism destination for more than 40 years. Thousands of patients travel to Cuba, particularly from Latin America and Europe, attracted by the "fine reputation of Cuban doctors, the low prices and nearby beaches on which to recuperate." In 2006, Cuba attracted nearly 20,000 medical tourists. Medical treatments included joint replacement, cancer treatment, eye surgery, cosmetic surgery and addictions rehabilitation. Costs are about 60 to 80 percent less than US costs."

Skippy, one shouldn't confuse the quality of a healthcare system and the quality of healthcare, as the quality of healthcare is just one component in measuring the quality of a healthcare system. Other components of healthcare system quality include, but aren't limited to, access and affordability.

What is the quality of a police and fire protection system if a large group of citizens can't access or afford it?

"46,159 Canadians sought medical treatment outside of Canada in 2011, as wait times increased 104 percent — more than double — compared with statistics from 1993."

"In 2011, Canadians enrolled in the nation’s government-dominated health service waited long periods of time for an estimated 941,321 procedures. As many as 2.8 percent of Canadians were waiting for treatment at any given time, according to the Institute."

"In some cases, these patients needed to leave Canada due to a lack of available resources or a lack of appropriate procedure/technology,” according to the Institute. “In others, their departure will have been driven by a desire to return more quickly to their lives, to seek out superior quality care, or perhaps to save their own lives or avoid the risk of disability.”"

"Increases in the number of patients leaving Canada for treatment were seen in seven of the ten Canadian provinces: British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador."

"“Some of these patients will have been sent out of country by the public health care system due to a lack of available resources or the fact that some procedures or equipment are not provided in their home jurisdiction,” the report concluded."

"“Others will have chosen to leave Canada in response to concerns about quality … to avoid some of the adverse medical consequences of waiting for care such as worsening of their condition, poorer outcomes following treatment, disability, or death … or simply to avoid delay.”"

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/11/report...

Poo, So if you give easier access to HC, how does that make the HC better. I have family in Norway, and they have told us repeatedly, that we don't want the same thing they have. If the government, either party, can mess up anything, why would we want them in charge of our healthcare. Why is it that the minority of people always make the decisions for the Majority of people. You are ok with proving that you have healthcare to the government, but you are not ok with proving that you are eligible to vote with an ID. I think that you are Nancy Pelosi in disguise here. We already have things like badger care and others that are availible to the poor people. A people that rely to heavy on the government are an unfree society. If you want to protect our democracy, then why don't you protect our constitutional freedoms. I don't recall anywhere in the constitution where it calls for the government to provide healthcare. You dems don't want to be free, you want to live in a government controlled society. I say you should move to one of the broke socialist countries. I think that would suit you better. Oh wait, this country will be broke soon, and more cities will file bankruptcy. Make sure when you are reading this, you check for spelling errors. You will need them to come back with some attack or rhetoric.

swiss - becausse the IRS collects the taxes in this country.

maine - I am an ordinary American of average income and pay all my medical bills without assistance of the government or an employer.

I'm also trying to understand what one has anything to do with the other?!?!?? In other words, why is the IRS policing this?

carlitosway - Therein lies the crux of the healthcare problem!

Perhaps, Bowlgal. But when you went out of your way and off-topic on three different articles to deride me for my on-topic comments with your misspelled word, and all I did in reply was to correct your spelling, perhaps it's not the left or I you need to worry about.

I don't know how the HHS study figures that a family making $88,000 a year can afford a $20,000+ health insurance package.

More people do not pay their doctors bill than do pay them? Why is the government paying those bills?

Health Care Costs Out of Control, Oct. 30, 2011: Our healthcare system is bankrupting the country. It's been many years since an ordinary American could pay annual health care bills without assistance from the government or an employer. American healthcare used to be just a bit more expensive. Now it's nearly twice as expensive as our economic competitors, and getting steadily worse. Because it now represents 16 percent of the economy — double its proportion in 1970 — it's distorting the budgets of every business, and every level of government. You'd think, amid the worst economy in decades, that health insurers would be show restraint, but you would be wrong. Premiums went up 9 percent in 2011. Think about that figure. It's three times the current inflation rate, business as usual. The health inflation juggernaut rolls on, impervious to all attempts to control it. Americans look for villains in these situations, and there are a few. My favorite is Anthem, the mega-insurer that cleverly took over nonprofit Blue Cross plans in a host of states, including Maine and New Hampshire. The "Blues" as we once called them, struggled to contain rate increases while maintaining adequate reserves. Anthem showed them what they were doing wrong. Impose huge annual increases, make lots of money and stop worrying about whether people can afford it. Since taking over Maine Blue Cross in 1999, Anthem has raised regulated rates on individual policies every year, usually requesting increases of 10 to 15 percent.
Obama will have to impose price controls on healthcare. This hasn't been done since Richard Nixon, and also World War II. Nixon's primary motivation seemed to be winning re-election, but Obama faces an unmistakable crisis. A major sector of the economy has essentially lost control of pricing. Price controls would prompt fevered blasts from the industry, and the political opposition, but the president can do this on his own to save the system. We've been told for years that we can't afford Medicare/Medicaid. We cannot afford healthcare, period. Shifting completely to private insurers, as Republicans want, will make things much worse. Price controls can give breathing room to have a rational discussion of how we can do what every other major democracy has done — provide health care without bankrupting ourselves. Nothing else has worked.

North Carolina Hospitals Sued 40,000 Patients Over Unpaid Bills: Hospitals in North Carolina are taking debt-collection to a whole new level. Certain North Carolina hospitals sued 40,000 patients for unpaid bills between 2005 and 2010, including bringing a $200,000 case against a Vietnam veteran whose leg was amputated.
Up to $49 billion unpaid by uninsured for hospitalizations: Washington - Uninsured Americans - including those with incomes well above the poverty line - leave hospitals with unpaid tabs of up to $49 billion a year, according to a USA Today analysis of government statistics. On average, uninsured families can pay only about 12% of their hospital bills in full. Families with incomes above 400% of the poverty level, or about $88,000 a year for a family of four, pay about 37% of their hospital bills in full, according to the Department of Health and Human Services study. Paul Winfree, a senior policy analyst at the conservative Heritage Foundation think tank, disagreed, saying the study showed how Americans can exploit the system. "With ($88,000), families should be able to buy insurance," he said. "They choose not to." He said that while he realizes hospitalizations tend to be expensive, Americans need to look at their spending and saving habits. Jack Hadley, senior health services researcher at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va., pointed out that uninsured people are charged as much as two-thirds more than what insured people are charged because insurers are able to negotiate prices. His research has found that privately insured individuals don't end up paying higher premiums to make up for the uninsured because hospitals that serve lower-income families don't have a lot of patients with insurance. He said the government pays about 75% of those unpaid hospital bills either by direct payment or through a disproportionate payment of Medicaid.

Whatever poobah, I have come to learn since the leftist took over of the capitol and this eye opening first hand experience on this site, the left are incapable of tolerance and take advantage of the slightest little thing.
Most people who are of sound self worth just let little things like denial vs. deniel roll.
I sure hope it made you feel better inside to put me in my place.

The "scarey" letters from the IRS are certainly no scarier then the ones from Mercy Hospital if you don't pay your bill on time. Collection agencies can be very "scarey" as well. Lets focus on actually keeping people healthy so they don't drain the system.....which most of us pay for with higher rates.

baegucb in the 1960's when Medicare was started, there were ~20 taxpayers to each person getting something from the "new" entitlment. Today that number has shrunk to ~4 taxpayers to each recipient. In less than 20 years that number will shrink in half again to ~2 taxpayers for each recipient.

It is easy to see the program, as devised and currently administered, is not sustainable. Ignoring the issue in no way solves the problem.

In the 1960s, Ronald Reagan teamed up with the American Medical Association to warn that if Medicare were to pass, “you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children, and our children’s children, what it once was like in America when men were free.”

Bowlgal, you're the one who went off-topic on three different articles to call me in "denial" in response to my on-topic comments. I corrected your spelling. I did not belittle you.

The meaning of the name Deniel is 'God is my judge'.
Not you poobah

You must be very full of yourself to stalk me on three different sites to make yourself feel good for trying to put me down.

poor poobah, all he has left is correct spelling. hahaa
or is it ha ha ha???

Liberal is as liberal does. Denial IS as liberal does.

Since the Supreme Court ruled the individual mandate is constitutional under Congress’ power to tax, it is projected by the CBO that 4 million will pay the $95 tax starting in 2014. According to estimates by The Wall Street Journal, 75 percent of the tax will be paid by people earning under $120,000 a year. This is a highly regressive tax that goes against the President’s commitment not to increase taxes on the middle class.
Under the employer mandate, starting in 2014, any employer with 50 or more employees who drops coverage or who has a single employee who receives a subsidy will have to pay a fine of $2000 per employee. A new CBO report predicts that up to 20 million will lose their employer-based coverage.
The President wanted a health care bill that cost $900 billion over 10 years. The CBO estimated that the final bill would cost $940 billion over the decade beginning in 2010. The CBO recently revised its forecast saying that the cost of the ACA will be $1.76 trillion from 2012 to 2022.
The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has estimated that by 2021 there will be approximately 23 million who are still uninsured.
Richard Foster, Chief Actuary at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) told Congress that he did not think that “the ACA would hold down costs or let everyone keep their insurance if they like it.”

The word is spelled denial, not deniel.

Okay, I see poobah is in deniel with this article too.
I see a pattern with the left.
First the Walker victory and their "as Wis. goes, so goes the nation" motto stopped and I don't see one post on John Doe anymore.

Obama Tax man cometh is why he lost so many Dems in 2010 and why he loses all three houses in 2012.

"Less Doctors, less quality care, tax for everyone and hounded by the evil IRS."

I thought we were discussing post-ACA America, not the previous decades.

Poorer but wiser Poobah? Less Doctors, less quality care, tax for everyone and hounded by the evil IRS. via la americanica!

poo...give it up. You're losing credibility on this one.

The key difference, bowlgal, is that with the ACA millions of uninsured Americans will now have access to affordable healthcare insurance. And millions of others struggling to make their healthcare insurance premiums will be receiving premium assistance. I'm very pleased to know we'll be improving the access to our healthcare system for millions of people. A healthier America is a more productive and competitive America.

Apparently, seeing Obama's lastest ads, I'm suppose to be more outraged at what Romney does with his money then at what Obama is doing with mine.
TAX pure and simple.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_poli...
Unkept promise?

greatplain...are you living under a rock? This article points out many of the reasons most Americans are against this bill. Just affect a few! Unless you are independently wealthy, work for the govt, or live in abject poverty, or an illegal immigrant, you will be very affected!

The benefits out way the negatives. A new program and paperwork! Oh no! Just like government? A private sector job never has new procedures...right.
It is funny to see people complain about something that is putting money in the private insurance sectors pocket, and will only effect a small number of people, (if at all, if you've seen the structure).

The changes will require new regulations, forms and publications, new computer programs and a big new outreach program to explain it all to taxpayers and tax professionals. Businesses that don't claim an exemption will have to prove they offer health insurance to employee. This says it all. Straight from the article. More government rig-a-ma-role. and you are the one getting roled

I love it that people think insurance prices will go down because everyone will be "covered". How did Wisconsin's MANDATORY insurance law treat yah? I know my insurance went up about 50 bucks. I called my insurance company and they couldnt tell me why. I used the talking point that if everyone is covered (supposedly), shouldnt prices go down. Yeah....dead silence on that one. Throwing more money at a problem doesnt automatically solve it. Something Washington should, but wont, ever get through their heads. Prolly cuz they are stuck so far up their....

onedayatatime: On the rich today on the rest of us tomorrow. Never fails.

And the healthcare industry passes on its cost to the customer. That is you and me in case you don't understand.

usaret..."Obamacare is full of new taxes on people."
Poltifact "In fact, most of the taxes in the health care law are on high-income individuals or the health care industry."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/34997090/Obama...

The chart should say Patient -> Doctor. But this is what the Democrats and Big Government looks like.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact...

Obamacare is full of new taxes on people. You can deny it from now till doomsday but they are in the bill and more and more are coming out each day. Someone has to pay and the rich only have so much money the government can take so just think where else the government is going to get the money it needs from. Truth be known, there are probably just as many on the Left who don't follow the party line and they want to know to how much this is going to cost and where all this free money is coming from to pay for all the Healthcare bill is going to require. SIMPLE ANSWER IS MORE TAXES. So, don't be surprised when your income goes down because of an increase in taxes. We have just begun to see what Obamacare will cost and it looks like it will be very, very expensive in more ways then one would like to think. Hope you defenders of it today can defend it down the line.

provided by pooba
NoLeftist said, "As soon as you show me the link that shows where you can't go to prison for not paying ObamaCare taxes."

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I already did that over 2.5 hours ago. "WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure." PPACA, page 170 of PDF [ http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerc...... ]
No leftist asked the same question again July 9 at 12:52
pooba once again provided you the link at 1:00pm July 9th.

noleftist; Regarding the specific taxes you mentioned, the information you provided is from The Heritage Foundation or from Crossroads, a Karl Rove sponsored organization...not exactly unbiased sources. Poltifact had this to say, "The Crossroads ad wrongly implies that people of modest means are getting hit with 18 tax increases because of the health care law. In fact, most of the taxes in the health care law are on high-income individuals or the health care industry. We rate their statement Mostly False." http://www.politifact.com/florida/statem...
People who go to tanning salons or smoke should pay a tax for that service, after all, they are putting themselves at risk with such behavior and will cause greater expense to the health care industry. People with unhealthy lifestyles will be covered now causing higher cost at the exchanges, which has to absorb the cost. We will all pay more, so yes they should pay a direct tax at the time they choose to indulge in unhealthy choices. Aren't you for people taking personal responsibility for their choices?

Read this AP article in our very own Gazette and see if you still think that everyone is going to magically start buying health insurance.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/U...

vatoloco, seriously, I shouldn't even be replying to your comment, which contained nothing but a bevy of the conservative code words and phrases like, "sympathetic giving, negative dependent behaviors, rise up with better confidence and renewed self esteem, welfare type of programs, something for nothing scheme." And then, the coup de grace, "The government needs to cease all sympathetic giving...."

Not once did I see the mention of compassion, except for your awkward afterthought of reassurance that just because "people oppose welfare type of programs" doesn't mean they lack compassion. Yeah, right.

NoLeftist said, "Oh, and by the way, how about you name the charity you gave to that helps support poor people buy health insurance."

I never said I gave to sustainable charities that helps people buy healthcare insurance. I said, "I, just like millions of other Americans, have personally helped many, many people in America and more outside of America with healthcare, shelter, nutrition and education."

If I thought you were serious about giving to sustainable charities I would respond to a private message with a list of sustainable charities I support. But I'm not going to promote charities in an open comment to someone not serious about helping and in violation of the GazetteXtra's User Policy Agreement (Users agree NOT to use our Web site to advertise, solicit, or promote without our express written approval.)

185+ taxes to go yet. I'm done waiting though. You've had enough time.

jvilleis86ed said, "poobah, according to YOU all tax payers MUST overpay more than what they owe to the IRS."

Please cite where I said that. I quoted a statistic showing that about 3 in 4 taxpayers receive a refund. There are people receiving checks from the IRS who had zero tax liability and paid zero in taxes using various available credits. So your notion that people only need avoid overpaying to not receive a check is not accurate.

Not all states are expanding Medicaid so no states are? What kind of twisted logic is that? The same thinking that leads you to say that ObamaCare won't put you in prison for not paying its half trillion in taxes.

Oh, and by the way, how about you name the charity you gave to that helps support poor people buy health insurance. Here's your chance to publicize it!

You make so much stuff up it's impossible to keep up.

Take this short easy quiz on the AHC. It requires a simple yes/no answer. You get your results at the end and it tells you what percentile answered the question correctly.
http://healthreform.kff.org/quizzes/heal...
@noleftist, this is the answer to your 12:52 post.

My take on states refusing to set up exchanges, is that it is a win for Democrats. The feds will set it up instead. Any bets one of their options will be a single payer medicare/medicaid option?

(This comment was denied coverage by the site staff)

I don't know where this whole confusion regarding 'voluntary' comes from but I have an idea. Our tax code is said to be voluntary. That doesn't mean you only pay taxes if you want to; it means you yourself figure out how much you owe (you don't get a bill from the IRS). It is your responsibility to complete your tax form, and you must file if you want to get a refund. Lots of people don't file a return and never get in trouble, but they don't get their refund back either and the government keeps that money.

jvilleis86ed, regardless of how or why a tax refund is necessitated, a tax refund is not voluntarily. The government owes you that money and it is not voluntarily that they refund it. It is required by law that they refund it.

I never mentioned my personal situation in regard to income tax refunds, but rest assured, between my personal and business accountants, I get plenty of good advice. Probably not as edgy as the advice Willard Mitt Romney's gets from his tax avoidance lawyers, but good enough for me. I'm not complaining.

185+ taxes to go, NoLeftist!

NoLeftist said, "As for the tax increases, you have 50 different states that were going to expand Medicaid under threat of denied funding, much of which would require new tax revenues."

Didn't happen. Supreme Court didn't uphold it. Read the Supreme Court ruling! Maybe 25 states at most will extend Medicaid. Not a new tax. Next.

NoLeftist said, "Then you have the costs of operating the exchanges, requiring new revenues for each state. Let's say another 50."

Let's not. Texas announced today they won't offer an exchange. And most other states with Republican governors have indicated likewise. And states are funded by the ACA for the costs of setting up their exchanges. Read the Act! ZERO state taxes. Next.

NoLeftist said, "Then you have the Employer Mandate Tax, Surtax on Investment Income, medical device taxes, premium taxes, taxes on comprehensive policies, HSA, FSA, and HRA tax, special needs kids tax, sick person tax (reduction of medical itemized deductions), tanning taxes, BlueCross/Blue Shield tax, tax on health insurers, executive comp tax, black liquor tax, economic substance tax..."

That's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 taxes giving you some that aren't true new taxes.

15 taxes. Waiting for the other 185+ or so...

NoLeftist said, "And for a third time, if it's such a big deal that these people went without health insurance, why did you give absolutely nothing to help them out?"

That wasn't your original question, but as long as you made it personal, I'm better able to answer it directly. I, just like millions of other Americans, have peronally helped many, many people in America and more outside of America with healthcare, shelter, nutrition and education. I'm not a greedy, conservative Christian (in fact, I'm none of those things) who only pays lip service to the concept of helping those less fortunate than themselves in church once a year on Easter. If you're interested in joining me, send me a private message and I'll provide you with a list of sustainable organizations that will allow you to start helping the less fortunate right today without waiting for the ACA to fully be implemented.

As for the tax increases, you have 50 different states that were going to expand Medicaid under threat of denied funding, much of which would require new tax revenues. All of those new revenues would be new taxes, let's say 2 new taxes per state on average, so there you have a hundred.

Then you have the costs of operating the exchanges, requiring new revenues for each state. Let's say another 50. Even if you were to cut funding in other areas like education, that would amount to a "tax" according to Democratic logic.

Then you have the Employer Mandate Tax, Surtax on Investment Income, medical device taxes, premium taxes, taxes on comprehensive policies, HSA, FSA, and HRA tax, special needs kids tax, sick person tax (reduction of medical itemized deductions), tanning taxes, BlueCross/Blue Shield tax, tax on health insurers, executive comp tax, black liquor tax, economic substance tax...

All of these several taxes are on hundreds of different kinds of policies, thousands of different devices, drugs, and companies and millions of taxpayers.

Good enough?

Now, back to my questions:

Where exactly does ObamaCare say you can't be put in prison for not paying even one of those taxes?

And for a third time, if it's such a big deal that these people went without health insurance, why did you give absolutely nothing to help them out? You must be some sort of heartless uncaring immoral person.

Benjamin Franklin once said,
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty."

We have now decided that people do not have the liberty to refuse to buy healthcare. The Supreme Court has disarmed the lambs.

We have now voted, through our elected representatives, that people must be compelled through the power of the government to tax to help us pay for our healthcare.

Can you hear the herald? Do you feel safer as you give up more and more of your liberty? How do you assess the health of our republic?

dtb, I understand what you're saying. I'm about ready to hang it up with a few of the people making comments who obviously are parroting what others have said as opposed to reading the relevant sections of the Act for themselves.

Still waiting for an answer to my questions. As a brief reminder:

1: Why is it such a big deal that people have gone without health insurance but you have not personally given one dime to help them?, and

2. Where in the ObamaCare tax code does it say there is no criminal penalties for any of the taxes I mentioned?

NoLeftist said, "That section doesn't apply to any tax I mentioned."

You simply mentioned the, "the hundreds of fines and taxes in ObamaCare." Once you give me the complete list of those specific "hundreds of fines and taxes in ObamaCare," I'll be glad to address each one specifically for you. I assume by hundreds you mean at least a couple hundred, maybe three or four hundred, right? Exactly how many taxes and fines are you talking about? Do you know? Waiting...

jvilleis86ed said, "Your so called IRS tools are useless, NO REFUND = NO ENFORCEMENT..."

You should read the article again and the points I have made over a week ago. Almost 3 in 4 taxpayers receive a tax refund (which is not voluntary, but is owed them as an overpayment) and the average refund is around $3,000. This means compliance can reach at least around 75% and most likely higher. The plan is not designed to achieve 100% mandate compliance. If you choose to not pay in more than is due to the IRS, to not purchase healthcare insurance and to not pay the fine then the refund offset will not work until such time that you have an obligation to the federal government. That said, you are overlooking the second enforcement tool - tax liens. The ACA prohibits only the publishing of tax liens, it does not prohibit tax liens. Your property can be attached and encumbered by a tax lien placed on it by the federal government.

I'm just curious, jvilleis86ed. As fervently as you recommend people don't have to worry about their tax refunds being intercepted, perhaps you can explain if you've chosen to go without healthcare insurance yourself. In fairness to asking that question, I'll let you know that I have paid for my own private healthcare insurance since leaving a Fortune 100 company about twenty years ago and will be keeping that plan (which has already been amended with ACA provisions for preventative healthcare procedures).

joker said, "poobah calling people ingorant does nothing to promote your SUPERIOR knowledge."

I didn't call you ignorant. I specifically referred to your idea as being ignorant, not yourself.

Now that you've brought up the concept of calling people ignorant doing little to promote their knowledge, I noticed you didn't protest earlier when RetiredAirForce specifically called ME ignorant when he said, "Typical poo_koch, deflect on one issue then assume you know something when it is obvious your ignorant."

Did you overlook RetiredAirForce's comment or just choose not to call him out because he was attacking me? I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume you didn't see it. But now that you're aware of his comment, what do you think about it?

That section doesn't apply to any tax I mentioned. Could you please answer my questions?

You must think we are as stupid as your average Democrat.

poobah calling people ingorant does nothing to promote your SUPERIOR knowledge. who will pay for that health insurance premium assistance. That's right me. Why should I subsidize this by working hard. Taxex are taxes are taxes not matter how you want to conceal the words.

poobah, you can't expect these people to actually read the act when they can't even get through an Eyester blog because it's too long. Besides the reading comprehension just isn't there.

Much easier to let others do the thinking for you and get your talking points from Limbaugh, Hannity and Faux "News".

joker said, "In otherwords this does nothing to insure everyone has insurance because most of those who don't, don't pay taxes or own a home that the government would put a lein on."

Brother, that goes beyond ignorance. A person who doesn't pay taxes or own a home is very likely the same person who can not afford healthcare insurance and would end up paying NOTHING or next to nothing for their healthcare insurance after the premium credit assistance they receive from the ACA or from the extended availability of Medicaid. I seriously can't believe that people that you'd hope are of at least average intelligence can come up with such ideas.

You do NOT have to pay taxes or own a home to qualify for healthcare insurance premium assistance or extended Medicaid benefits. Read the ACA!

NoLeftist said, "As soon as you show me the link that shows where you can't go to prison for not paying ObamaCare taxes."

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I already did that over 2.5 hours ago. "WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure." PPACA, page 170 of PDF [ http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerc... ]

In otherwords this does nothing to insure everyone has insurance because most of those who don't, don't pay taxes or own a home that the government would put a lein on. All it really does is form another program that the government can try to control our lives. It is also funny how even the politicians cannot make heads or tails of all the provisions of ACA. However some seem to understand every word of it.

As soon as you show me the link that shows where you can't go to prison for not paying ObamaCare taxes.

jvilleis86ed said, "poobah, Please tell us you know a tax refund is voluntary."

I'm waiting for you to explain this one! Please do tell us how a tax REFUND is voluntary.

NoLeftist, I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink. If you prefer to remain ignorant about the Act and what others have done to help those less fortunate, there's nothing I can do about it.

NoLeftist said, "By the way, not paying the hundreds of fines and taxes in ObamaCare can land you in prison in many different ways..."

Here's a link to the PPACA in full: [ http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerc... ] Please list the "hundreds of fines and taxes in ObamaCare" that can land you in prison. Maybe you can send me a private message when you've posted those "hundreds of fines and taxes in ObamaCare" so I don't have to keep checking back.

I take your non-answer answer as an admission that you haven't asked yourself the question I posed, or at least you have not come up with an acceptable answer.

By the way, not paying the hundreds of fines and taxes in ObamaCare can land you in prison in many different ways, like not paying the tanning tax, the premium tax, the income tax, not providing sterilization and abortofacient drugs in violation of your conscience, still taking current deductions for medical savings accounts to pay tuition for special needs children (cut by ObamaCare), not paying the medical device tax, and on and on and on.

Not to worry, though, being a Democrat means never having to say you're sorry!

Life is a very taxing situation.

joker said, "Poobah concerning your 10:30 post, If they are not using an insurance company and they cannot collect the tax from the tax return which insurance company should get their tax credit?"

Has anyone that is opposed to the ACA actually read the ACA when they have a question or concern? It seems unlikely given the comments here. If a person chooses to not purchase healthcare insurance, NO healthcare insurance company will receive a premium credit for that person. As I've mentioned before, there are two enforcement tools the IRS have - intercepting tax refunds and attaching a lien to their property. The ACA prohibits the IRS from publishing the tax lien, but that does not mean their property is unencumbered by a tax lien that the government is aware of and can enforce in a variety of ways -- including the aforementioned tax refund offset.

sorry unsustainable

Poobah concerning your 10:30 post, If they are not using an insurance company and they cannot collect the tax from the tax return which insurance company should get their tax credit? This law is so filled with holes it is just another unstainable program.

RetiredAirForce, I guess you forgot when Hardtobelieve asked you, "How about the free health care you are receiving or eligible to receive through Tricare? Did you turn that down because you are against it. Don't get me wrong, you deserve the free health care after serving our country, (I receive it myself), but don't call us typical hypocrits when you receive a free subsidy too."

Or when you replied, "hardtobelieve, I have answered that claim many times already."

Typical poo_koch, deflect on one issue then assume you know something when it is obvious your ignorant. I was not asked about VA services at all. Perhaps you can stop your silly deflections and just address the topic and facts. Your track record of miss-information far outweighs real information.

NoLeftist said, 'I think what a lot of you need to ask yourselves is: "If poor peoples' lack of health insurance such a big deal, why have I personally given absolutely nothing to help them?"'

I think you need to do three things:

1) Ask yourself why you're spreading misinformation about the ACA, such as, "Like pay the tax or be thrown in prison."

2) Educate yourself on the ACA. Here's the link to the Act: [ http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerc... ]

3) Realize that many people have helped those without healthcare insurance obtain the services they need. Perhaps you need to pause and ask yourself that question. The patchwork quilt of healthcare for those without healthcare insurance is not working. The more fortunate people amongst us who support the ACA are indeed willing to help low and middle income people obtain affordable healthcare insurance.

RetiredAirForce said, "Are you claiming only "rich" people using tanning services?"

No, I did not claim that. My statement specifically addressed one of the major increases - Medicare taxes of high income earners.

Regarding the question posed to you by another commenter on your military healthcare insurance that you have claimed you do not use. The VA healthcare system is a great example of a single payer system, paid for by the taxpayers. I think one of the problems veterans who do not use the VA healthcare system have with the ACA is the provision that people who qualify for other forms of medical insurance including Medicare, Medicaid and military healthcare, are not eligible for premium credits. This is as it should be. So while your less fortunate neighbors may be receiving premium credits, the option for veterans with private healthcare insurance policies seeking to lower their healthcare insurance premiums will be to drop their private healthcare insurance plans and start using the VA system that all taxpayers have been funding all along.

USA today cites a survey that 56% (1 out of 5 democrats) of likely voters say Obama has taken our country in the wrong direction while 35% say he has taken us in the right direction.

I think what a lot of you need to ask yourselves is: "If poor peoples' lack of health insurance such a big deal, why have I personally given absolutely nothing to help them?"

donnaw said, "poo... How about the 50% who pay no federal income tax? How does IRS plan to get money from them if they haven't paid anything in...what's to refund if they don't get insurance?"

If you're interested in understanding the Act, why don't you read it? One only needs to file a return, verifying their income (or lack thereof) and the healthcare insurance premium credits are sent directly to the healthcare insurance company they are using. Nobody will receive these premium credits directly. They will all go directly to the healthcare insurance companies.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact...
Interesting view about middle-class tax hikes and cuts under Obamacare.

Here are more liberal lies "The people who will see increases are those earning over $200,000 per year (single) or $250,000 per year (married)". Are you claiming only "rich" people using tanning services? What of those tax increases? The problem with the left is they will purposely ignore the facts while making false statements.

NoLeftist said, "Like pay the tax or be thrown in prison."

Wrong again, NoLeftist. dtb is correct. The ACA forbids the IRS from using criminal prosecution or criminal penalties for failure to pay the penalty. Nobody is going to be thrown in prison for failing to pay the penalty.

"WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure." PPACA, page 170 of PDF [ http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerc... ]

poo... How about the 50% who pay no federal income tax? How does IRS plan to get money from them if they haven't paid anything in...what's to refund if they don't get insurance?

jvilleis863ed said, "poobah, The mandate and TAX can not be enforced and will be repealed."

Did you read the article and the Act and the Supreme Court ruling? "The law allows the IRS to withhold tax refunds to collect the penalty, and most filers get refunds. This year, 77 percent of the 135 million individual income tax returns processed by the IRS qualified for a refund. The average refund: $2,707."

I'm glad you now acknowledge the mandate is constitutional. So what happens when the IRS intercepts your tax refund for refusing to purchase healthcare insurance? What are you going to call it then? An enforcement of the mandate that the court upheld.

Conservatives love having the talking points about repealing this and that, but when it comes right down to it, it is akin to repealing Medicare and Social Security. It isn't going to happen. Get used to it, we're on our way to a single payer system.

I think some of you should ask yourselves, why do rich old people deserve free medical care but poor children don't?

kaysbrew said, "The health care law "includes the largest set of tax law changes in more than 20 years," according to the Treasury inspector general who oversees the IRS."

You then somehow make the quantum leap to equating that to, "Tax the poor and middle class!" Tax code changes don't automatically equate to higher taxes. Many tax code changes that are part of ACA result in significantly lower costs for healthcare insurance, PARTICULARLY for lower and middle income families.

Indeed, pretty much the opposite will occur. You'll see lower income people who could not afford healthcare insurance now being covered with premium subsidies in the form of advanceable refunds paid directly to their healthcare insurance company they select from their exchange. Or if they qualify for extended Medicaid, they'll have that covered for them. The people who will see increases are those earning over $200,000 per year (single) or $250,000 per year (married) in the form of high Medicare taxes (2.35% from 1.45%) that will go in to the Medicare Part A trust fund.

I am curious as to who is going to get the benefits of "lower cost" health insurance under this law? The way I see it, is that my cost will go up because of the government providing a service that was not provided previously. Obviously, I will have to help cover that cost. And, the people without HC right now, currently have no cost, so their cost will definitely go up whether they choose the penalty or got their own. So lefties who gets the lower cost HC?

hardtobelieve, I have answered that claim many times already.

The only people who will be impacted by this "tax" are those who CAN afford to purchase health care, but refuse to do so!!! Why does the right keep spewing lies?
----
Bull, everyones taxes will have to help pay for the "credits" to be used to help people pay for their mandated insurance policy. That is a fact.

Retired Air Force says: I have been contantly against subsidies" How about the free health care you are receiving or eligible to receive through Tricare? Did you turn that down because you are against it. Don't get me wrong, you deserve the free health care after serving our country, (I receive it myself), but don't call us typical hypocrits when you receive a free subsidy too.

" Insurance costs for everyone will go down when we don't have to cover health care for the irresponsible. "
-
If that was the case why did it do the exact opposite in the state of Mass with a similar program?

nl, no one is going to prison for this.

Very pleased that freeloaders, who can afford insurance but prefer to mooch off of others instead, will be paying a tax penalty. Insurance costs for everyone will go down when we don't have to cover health care for the irresponsible.

"These people will receive various incentives to make healthcare insurance affordable to them."

Like pay the tax or be thrown in prison. Thank you, Mr. Democrat, for providing me an incentive to purchase health insurance that I didn't want.

"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

C.S. Lewis

A left wing parrot echoed this " Obama has taken a significant step forward with his healthcare reform that will inevitably lead to a single payer system "
-
Yes we know. Against the direct demand of the majority of American's taxpayers your party lied to the voters. Paying for votes in congress and the senate with promises of not going single payer, all the while those in the background were only focusing on THEIR end game; making others participate in something they want, typical liberals.

See, I told you so.

The health care law "includes the largest set of tax law changes in more than 20 years," according to the Treasury inspector general who oversees the IRS. The agency will have to hire thousands of workers to manage it

Now that will jump start the economy...hahaha
Liberals: Tax the poor and middle class!

wiggle uttered "I see how big a problem it is for you, paying taxes and someone else deciding how much goes to each billion dollar corp as a bonus"
-
This statement shows how out of touch with reality you really are. I have consistently been against all subsidies. As soon as as you want to stop the "typical liberal" lies and spin, and decide to talk about about real issues without your typical hyperbole and fairy tales feel free to step up.

donnaw...take the time to read the sunday messenger articles about the healthcare law. It may not be perfect, but it will be a huge step in the right direction.

donnaw said, "So you actually think those that don't have health care insurance now are going to run lickity split to get health insurance all of sudden and pay the premiums rather than take the tax."

My comment specifically mentioned the tens of millions of Americans who can not now afford healthcare insurance. These people will receive various incentives to make healthcare insurance affordable to them. So yes, I do think they will embrace the opportunity to be covered by a healthcare insurance policy.

donnaw said, "And all these employers are all of a sudden going to provide insurance instead of pay the tax, errr sorry, the penalty?"

How much of this do we have to listen to? The logic behind the idea that employers will wait to stop providing insurance until they have to pay a penalty instead of to stop providing it when they DON'T have to pay a penalty is just ridiculous.

The major reason that employers provide, and have provided for decades, healthcare insurance is to remain competitive with other employers, not to avoid a penalty (which did not exist for decades).

donnaw said, "If this is true health insurance reform what happened to tort reform and other cost controls? Just like the Dems, just add more benefits, raise the costs and expect someone else to pay for bad choices."

You and wislady seem to have the same problem of thinking of our nation's healthcare system from the perspective of just one person - yourselves. ACA will lower the cost of healthcare for tens of millions of Americans. It will increase mobility of persons from state to state (allowing them to increase their earnings) as people will no longer have to worry about being denied coverage due to preexisting conditions when moving from state to state or from job to job. Once the inevitable single payer system is implemented, it will lower the cost of healthcare for all Americans. If you want true cost controls in healthcare, you'll get the private healthcare insurance industry OUT of our national healthcare system altogether with a single payer system.

poo...so you actually think those that don't have health care insurance now are going to run lickity split to get health insurance all of sudden and pay the premiums rather than take the tax, errr sorry, the penalty when they file their federal income taxes? And all these employers are all of a sudden going to provide insurance instead of pay the tax, errr sorry, the penalty? You are one naive guy! If this is true health insurance reform what happened to tort reform and other cost controls? Just like the Dems, just add more benefits, raise the costs and expect someone else to pay for bad choices.

wislady said, "The ACA does not reform healthcare. It does nothing to reform the quality of healthcare, or to control the costs."

Nothing to reform the quality of healthcare? You surely agree that access to healthcare is a major factor in the quality of any nation's healthcare system. Are you thinking only of yourself or are you thinking of America as a nation, and the tens of millions of Americans without healthcare insurance, when you make statements like this? If you truly believe that healthcare insurance does not improve the quality of healthcare one receives, wislady, why do you and your conservative buddies carry healthcare insurance? Tell the tens of thousands of Americans who already have improved the quality of their healthcare by the ACA requiring insurance companies to cover children to age 26 on their parent's policies and the other millions who will shortly have healthcare insurance benefits who couldn't have otherwise afforded it that it won't improve their quality of healthcare.

The repubs say how this is the LARGEST tax increase EVER!!! WRONG!!! Lets see, Bush sr had one larger and Reagan had TWO way larger tax increases! So, who's the big taxers???
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3FMPN23f...

The ACA does not reform healthcare.
It does nothing to reform the quality of healthcare, or to control the costs.

RAF- yeah I see how big a problem it is for you, paying taxes and someone else deciding how much goes to each billion dollar corp as a bonus.

Donna - said I had to PACK. Plane leaves at 7 am tomorrow, and no need for a hotel I own a home there. Imagine that, I own a vaction home AND pay for insurance for my employees - even the part timers. WOW!!!

liberal, noun;
1. A person who does not agree with RAF.
2. a person who is "typical"

wislady said, "We know where Obama stands, and it is not with the American people. Obama has not done anything for health care reform."

For you to say Obama has not done anything for healthcare reform is to dismiss the last three and one-half years of legislative and judicial history regarding healthcare reform in America. If what you said were true, why would conservative be so up in arms over Obama's healthcare reform? While I prefer a single payer system, Obama has taken a significant step forward with his healthcare reform that will inevitably lead to a single payer system out of economic necessity.

poobah said on June 30, 2012, "The IRS also has a second enforcement tool: use of the refund offset (intercepting tax refunds). Approximately 3 of every 4 taxpayers get a tax refund every year. The average amount of refunds is around $3,000."

This article states, ""The law allows the IRS to withhold tax refunds to collect the penalty, and most filers get refunds. This year, 77 percent of the 135 million individual income tax returns processed by the IRS qualified for a refund. The average refund: $2,707."

Boy that sounds awfully similar to my comment of June 30, 2012 that drew the wrath of uncivil conservatives claiming there were no such enforcement tools. jvilleis86ed quipped, "poobah,, The Fee/Tax CAN NOT BE ENFORCED, PERIOD . Please grow a brain stem." Rick_Raff said, "poobah, you're wet as a puddle, and not as deep. Until now, I've never listened to anyone overdose on Kool-aid before."

Now we see more of the same type of name calling and belittling comments aimed at others here. When presented with facts, we see the same cadre of conservatives declaring the facts to be fiction, interlaced with name calling and other incivilities.

We need a meter count for how many times RAF says "typical" in his blogs.

NVgrf is the typical liberal poster. Lies after lies.

wiggle great deflection, now can you stick to what was said. If you read carefully I never said anything about you being an employer, it doesn't matter based on your previous comments. As is the typical liberal ploy, you think nothing you do is wrong, you want others to do things different with their money by spending it the way you want them to. Instead of addressing that you went off on a tangent of how good you think you are, when no one cares. One of the biggest problems we have in this nation is other people thinking they can spend OTHER PEOPLES MONEY better than the people that earn it. Take a breath, climb down from the tower you think your on, and worry about your life and stop trying to tell others how to live theirs.

Wiggle.....remember that the "One" said not to go on extravagant vacation....find a Howard Johnson motel (like his family did...right).

wiggle is a rehashed mouse!

wiggle, thought you said you were going on vacation!

Ha, ha!
Yeah, but what about old Mitt?
You can say all you want about Obama.
I have heard it all from you ad nauseum.
That's okay.
That is all I expect.
But what about good 'ol Mitt?
Can you put on a short skirt and wave the pom-pons?

How can they penalize people that have NO MONEY to get insurance? Or have just enough to pay bills and put food on the table? Why don't you read your detailed bills when you have surgery YOU will find double billing as to 2 doctors in surgery room, 2 nurses, 2 radiologists. I had a local and was AWAKE to know there was one of each. When I called to ask why I was told that is standard procedure, I was angry and let them know how wrong and BS this is. This is done to everyone and nothing can be done. And you wonder why the costs are so HIGH. Typical GOP responses ( by the deaf and Blind )and blaming the left with the supporting of half truths and BOLD lies again and again.If you GOP backers in here, had your way Wisconsin would be the first state to become THIRD WORLD STATE. Some of you are so HEARTLESS and have your heads so buried and will never comprehend the real truth, To the point of beyond SICKENING!!! HOW DARE THE POOR GET A BREAK IN YOUR EYES.... Well said Wiggle and nvgf.....

We know where Obama stands, and it is not with the American people.

Obama has not done anything for health care reform.

The sky is falling!
I am curious.
How do we know where Mitt Romney stands on health care reform?
How do we know where Mitt Romney stands on anything?

typical RAF- You so easily forget I am also one of the tax payers or as you say OTHERS. I am also a business owner who pays for heath insurance for my employees, even the two part timers I have. Why do I do that? Because I care about my employees MORE than I care about a huge profit. WOW what a shock!!

Wiggle: Back up your statement with FACTS! Or are you just repeating the standard talking points of the Demcrats. I reserve the right to give to who and when I want and in the amount I can. I don't need you or the the Government to determine that for me. Why should I believe you care anymore then you claim I do? Is the Left that Perfect!!!!!!!? Come on provide proof of your comments!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The freeloaders are still going to freeload.

The premiums are going to massively increase.

Companies will cease to provide insurance coverage for workers, because they will not be able to afford it.

How can people be forced to show "proof of insurance" when they don't even have to show proof of who they are with an ID?

Obamas Tax Bill (ACA) got passed because of a deal with the WH and big Pharma Ceo's. Big pharma also spent millions on tv ads promoting universal HC, along with their lobbying.

The only people who will be impacted by this "tax" are those who CAN afford to purchase health care, but refuse to do so!!! Why does the right keep spewing lies?

About time we did something about all of the freeloaders without insurance.
About time we did something about the sweetheart deals
that group insurers cut with hospitals
and balance on the backs of the privately insured.
About time we did something about insurance companies
dropping coverage for sick customers
or jacking up their premiums to force them to drop out.

Typical wiggle, pretend to care more by wanting OTHERS to spend their money in ways YOU want. You fit in perfect with the left.

Joan- "it's time to have actual empathy and care about your neighbor"
There's where the problem begins. Repugs don't care, never have never will. It's the me me me and only me party. They don't care that people are dying needless deaths just as long as they don't have to pay for them in anyway shape or form. The repugs have been that way from day one and will always be a self centered, heartless, two faced lot who will hang on to thier coins and step over the dying poor. What a great country!!

Joan...first of all you don't need a masters degree for a good job. Companies are begging for skilled workers. Applicants with good math skills and the ability to read directions can get a good paying job. We have provided examples on these blogs before. Also you need to show up for work on time properly dressed. And Walmart provides jobs for a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't be hired, not all of their employees but many of them. And because Obama wants us to be dependent on the govt for healthcare, among other things, the bill incentivizes companies to not provide health insurance. Pay a fine and let the govt do it. You have your rose colored glasses on in regard to Obamacare.

We are already being taxed when people go to the hospital without insurance and then we get higher insurance payments as a result. What I like about the system is it will tax companies like Walmart who do not provide a reasonable level of insurance.

You can't pull yourself from your bookstraps in this new world so it's time to have actual empathy and care about your neighbor. Corporations have shipped the jobs to India and China and now they have left us with jobs at Walmart. Also, you can become one of these people scraping by - it can happen to anyone. You need a Masters degree for a good job these days - and how much is that going to cost you? Not everybody can afford a good education anymore. Wake up - it's a new world and the old rules don't apply. Your community's bake sale for you isn't going to cut the mustard anymore. Corporations have abandoned us for cheaper labor and it's time to band together.

I find it interesting that "the IRS has not always accurately identified spending related to the new health care law." Who audits the almighty IRS?

There is no healthcare reform in the Obama Tax Bill.

There is something seriously wrong with a president who hires thousand of IRS agents, but REFUSES to hire border agents to protect the American citizens.

How will you feel when they show up at your door with their armed escorts if you have been deemed as a Potentially Dangerous Taxpayer (PDT), according to the IRS memos that were issued in 2010.

2 years ago, the CBO estimated it would cost over 10 Billion dollars to implement Obama Care.

April of 2012

Great news: Obama diverting a half-billion dollars to the IRS for ObamaCare enforcement

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/04/09/gr...

" when they'll have to start providing proof on their tax returns "
-
Funny how the left wing circus hates the idea of providing proof for elections but bathes in it when they desire to force things on others.

And you still believe this isn't a tax? This is your efficient govt at work! And these are the estimates of what it will cost to run this wonderful program....wait til we get the actual numbers! It's no wonder Obama set it up to start after the election, that is except for some teaser goodies like making pre-existing conditions be covered as well as covering offspring up to age 26. We still don't know what all is in this bill. Where is the healthcare reform to get at the costs?