dtb,

If a crime is not reported are you saying there was no crime? Is this your tortured logic?

crickets...

I find it funny that people think that adds and fliers with public salaries of public employees is okay, but showing if someone voted is private. Both public occurrences.

gravitylens: said "It seems both sides have lost all sense of decency."

You are absolutely right! I guess Walker's DIVIDE AND CONQUER is working big time.

More reasons for the left wing to "hate" Walker.

-He cut down the cherry tree and framed George Washington for it.
-Scott Walker caused the BP oil spill.
-Scott Walker led the push to remove Pluto form our small "union" of planets.
-Scott Walker doesn't separate his colors when he washes clothes.
-Scott Walker created the BCS
-Scott Walker took 1/32 of Elizabeth Warren's land.
-Scott Walker burned down Arnold’s drive in.
-Scott Walker beat up Chuck Norris and took away his toys.
-Scott Walker is keeping Harry Reid from passing a budget.
-Scott Walker gave Robert Byrd the oath to be a Kleagle and Exalted Cyclops.
-Scott Walker caused hurricane Katrina
-Scott Walker went to an all-u-can-eat joint and didn't eat all he could.
-Scott Walker paid Saint's players to hunt Favre in bounty-gate.
-Scott Walker was really Baghdad Bob

And just who has reported fraud in early voting?




crickets



That's what I thought.

(1:17pm) Really! It was an OLD joke. But then liberals could be fooled I guess.

Fraud gone wild reported already in early voting. Dems trying to steal this one.

gravity - you spoke volumes - and in only one sentence. Well said.

Midnight_Ride said, "We know who you are, we know how you voted and you better be scared."

We know how you voted? Back to reality. In absolutely NO WAY does public voting history information, such as that in the mailing, contain information about HOW a person voted.

This is a typical union tactic modeled after card check. We know who you are, we know how you voted and you better be scared.

It seems both sides have lost all sense of decency.

I believe that both the mailing being discussed in this article that provided public information about voting histories of people and the previous flier stuffed in Gazette tubes that provided public information about teachers are attempts to intimidate.

The flier about teachers contained a separate section that went well beyond providing public information. It listed a website where parents could check to see if their child's teacher had signed recall petitions against Walker. It then included a form where parents could request that their child be assigned to a "non-radical" teacher. I believe this is an attempt to intimidate union members from signing or participating in recall activities. [ http://gazettextra.com/news/2012/may/22/... ]

The mailing with voting histories of neighbors, whether or not they voted in November 2008 and November 2010, asks the person to contact their neighbors and then "reminds" them that, "After the June 5th election, public records will tell everyone who voted and who didn’t." I believe this is an attempt to intimidate people into voting.

I see no problem with providing public information (with information that clearly identifies the party responsible for creating and distributing the literature.) I do, however, see problems with combining public information with the added verbiage that accompanied both the flier about teachers and this most recent mailing about voting histories.

i dont see it as a big deal all the cad said was your name address and if you voted . I suggest every one get out and vote tomorrow ! i know i am !

Personally -- getting a note reminding people to vote is fine. Calling out neighbors specifically is NOT fine. Encouraging neighbors to vote, including names on the note, and supporting particular candidate is not fine especially if you ask someone to knock on a neighbors door.

My advice. -- Dont knock on mine, I will make my own mind up and its none of your business what I decide. Get off my property or I will call the authorities. You are trespassing. This note will be on my porch and in my yard.

OMG! The horror, the horror! Phone books have people's phone numbers and addresses in! And Their address number is right on their house or fire number! Some of those people voted, some of them did not!

kaysbrew: People afraid to vote because of this? Ohh, scary liberals! I'm sorry people won't vote now. : )

PanamaRed
teacher's salary is public knowledge and you have to buy from the GAB this information. Leave to the liberals to see who didn't vote and since there is no ID????
Also you whined about the recall list being public. So why do the liberals support card check??? Only if it's to your benefit do you apply double standards.

Just another right wing fear mongering tactic. Somehow it's perfectly ok to send out a list of teachers and their salaries but information that indicated whether a person voted or not is considered "intrusive"! How do you right wing nut jobs sleep at night?

Just another left wing liberal organization's attempts at voter intimidation.

SuperDave: While I can't actually disagree with anything you wrote, I will continue to respect other people's privacy even if no one else does.

I agree with SuperDave about its relevance. It was designed to fire up liberal voters, more than insult Conservative folks or privacy minded people. I thought these listed WHO you voted for, and they don't. I like that it shows IF you voted. You got the right to vote, use it, particularly in these days of voter suppression in the guise of Voter ID theft.

I don't see the mailing as either positive or negative. I see it as a real waste of time and money, and I still don't see what the big deal is to some people. Privacy as we knew it as recently as the 1980s is gone.
I just don't understand what the people behind all of this were trying to accomplish. Seems like someone had a budget to justify. The whole thing is just stupid.

SuperDave: Yes, I see the "whether or not you voted" issue as secondary to this whole idea of circulating mailers to inform someone's neighbors as to whether or not they support or have participated in "X".

Using the argument that X is public information does nothing to address the issue of whether or not X should have been made public in the first place. What might push some nothing-left-to-lose weirdo neighbor over the edge? Maybe they are weird because they lost a child to some psycho neighbor. Put yourself in their place and use your imagination.

As to the specific issue of voting, I don't see ANY positive value in this mailing; only its potential downside. In all of my discussions about tomorrow's recall election, the subject of anyone's prior voting record has never once come up. It's simply not germane and it's not something that polite people ask each other. (It's an entirely different matter if someone happens to volunteer that information. Then it becomes a different topic. I'm already on record in GazetteXtra admonishing folks for not voting. Failing to vote is NOT a statement; voting "None of the Above" IS! If you tell me to my face that you've never voted, I'll probably ream you a new one. But I digress...)

I don't see the "inform your neighbors" mailing(s) to be a positive social force. It comes down to respecting whatever degree of privacy other people choose for themselves.

The left will cry foul and say rights are in jeopardy until they use it to intimatate. It's no one's business if you vote or not.
American and all it is as a great nation are in full assault by the left.

fordfan...wrong. My work is not anywhere near my posting time, and the Walker retort is just a rant. So the point hasn't been met. So my original point back then was deflected. I have erratic schedules but that is irrelevant. I stand by the fact the union has not assisted me with matters it was able to, and it has only told me who to vote for! If Walker is voted out (unlikely anyway as long as realists get out and vote), I will have to make issue with the union's failure in my work life. The issues this very large union could have helped me with was not even one that included cost directly or indirectly in most cases, but still ignored. What good are they except to produce special interests of their own and call in people and money from out of state-just like they yell at Walker for doing? I am just fine with paying a little more to my retirement etc and almost everyone I know who is not unionized still has it worse than me in bennies and pay...is that fair?

RetiredAirForce and The Greater Wisconsin Political Fund; both diligently working to keep citizens informed on other people's voting history.

Interesting information on the dem candidate that wants to be the Lt Gov of Wisconsin.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/06/wis...

d= Very lame, very lame

@fool: Thanks for continuing to explain. I am still not getting it. Imagine I am one of which folks? The reclusive weird-o neighbors, or the terrorized to tears missing-dog neighbors? And why would knowing if/when I voted matter to them?
Is it just about having your name and address printed and circulated?

If ignorance is calling a spade a spade, then we need more of it. Keep grasping...it's all you'll have come Wednesday morning.

TCB, are you that dense? Stay that way.

Youk,

Specifically-what were the legislators "selling"-where could the NRA buy it, and what we the names of the legislators that "sold" this data.....most importantly-what was the price per unit?

You do believe in the first amendment-dont you? (the right to petition)? Or is this one of those nasty rights you disagree with-unless you agree with what issue is being lobbied?

truecitizen said "Oh and fordfan....i have never used anything but my personal computer." But you work from home, right? Are you doing this on government time on occasion? You seem to be reserved on how you worded that – like a Walker answer.

DwightKSchrute
Jun 3, 2012 at 3:24 p.m.
Suggest removal

wiggle - childish statements won't get you far in life.
- neither will your ignorance

My problem with this is that it has my address listed for every weirdo out there to see. It shows names and addresses of people who vote and who didn't. Fine, print names, but publishing addresses went too far. There are too many crazy people out there, my address is my business.

wiggle - childish statements won't get you far in life.

SuperDave: I understand. My point (and, I think, wmwiley's point) is mostly about empathy and The Golden Rule.

I once had a very reclusive, hyper-secluded family as neighbors. A different neighbor was terrorized to tears simply by knocking on their door to ask if they'd seen her lost dog. (There's more to this story; let's just say these folks had everyone totally creeped out!) No one ever knew any of their names. They simply vanished one night, after which we theorized and speculated on everything from witness protection to domestic violence to fugitives, etc.

So, back to the subject of empathy, imagine you are one of those folks...

TCB, I don't understand your NRA comment either. But just to clarify, I wrote that the NRA gun lobby bought protective legislation for the identities of CC licensees in Wisconsin. The NRA did not buy or sell data. Or in other words, the NRA simply paid legislators to guarantee that CC licensee records remain hidden from public viewing.

TCB, Did you read my comment or are you just going into automatic seizure by the sight of screenname? Outside of secret government documents and records that would clearly endanger an individual, I wrote that public records are not there for picking or exposing winners and losers. There are no lines to draw outside of that. And about spousal abuse records? If sex offender records are made open to the public - sure, why protect a spouse beater? So another spouse could be beaten up in the future? It's either all or none and my main point is our broken system that allows money to draw the lines.

@fool: I had considered that as a possibility, but didn't understand why anyone would care if it was known if they voted or not. You have the right to vote, some would say the duty to vote. But I personally would prefer if people did not do so if they are not informed citizens. Anyway, this is sort of a non-story to me. Absent knowing who or what someone voted for (or against), that takes away the controversy for me. It's kind of like knowing if someone ate breakfast yesterday, but not knowing what they ate. What exactly are you supposed to do with that knowledge?

Youk,

IF the NRA bought something not available to the public at large-who sold data to the NRA? ("The NRA gun lobby for instance have bought protective legislation for the identities of CC licensees in Wisconsin. They are not available to the public )

Not all public records are public. So where do you draw the line? So lets say you recently were divorced-and it was found in your divorce hearing that you beat your spouse-since marriages require a license-should the general public be able to see that you allegedly beat your spouse and that a judge requires you to pay a specific amount of alimony annually-or should that public data simply state that the divorce was granted? Why is it the interest of the general public what you pay or receive in alimony? Where does it end?

I sit in the middle on public disclosure but also think wmwiley makes a fairly good case on why these records should not be in the public domain. Other than the obvious abuse for a witchhunt, the main reason though in my view is the fact that not all public records are public. There are many public records that are off-limits to the public or only available to those willing to buy OR closed off to the public because somebody paid for the protective legislation. If they are not government secret documents or pose serious endangerment to an individual, public records and registrations should be made either all open or all closed. The NRA gun lobby for instance have bought protective legislation for the identities of CC licensees in Wisconsin. They are not available to the public but voter's records, petitions and other civic duty records are left dangling open scrutiny simply because no one paid a legislator. The whole system of money buying power and law should be an outrage to every thinking American no matter what side of the aisle you're on. Totally disgaceful.

dwightschrute....good comparison, wmwiley-not good because at least a person has to go look for it on the internet, not have mailed to you without effort. Oh and fordfan....i have never used anything but my personal computer. I will tell you without error-Walker should stay and my some of my co-workers are beginning to see this. The unions have gone too far.

This is precisely the problem that his sort of thing brings up:Shopierehuh said: "Are you people ashamed that someone might find out that you are too lazy to do your minimum civic duty, that is to vote? That is the least that one can do as a citizen. You should ashamed and shamed if you don't bother to vote." It is no ones business. If you want to see my personal voting record, if I'm a criminal, if I inherited anything lately, got a divorce or ran a stop sign well-figure out who I am and where I live-fill out a form with your name on it and and look it up yourself. These online databases make judging your neighbors way too easy.

I recieved the mailing and thought it was a great idea, now I can contact my neighbors that have not voted lately and ask what I can do to help get them to the polls to vote, as long as they are voting the get rid of Walker :o)

Precisely. Pseudo outrage is what it is. It is public information. Get over it. Why on Earth would someone be upset that someone else found out if they voted or not? It doesn't say who you voted for. Are you people ashamed that someone might find out that you are too lazy to do your minimum civic duty, that is to vote? That is the least that one can do as a citizen. You should ashamed and shamed if you don't bother to vote.

"oh, oh, the horror, the horror, I have found something to be offended about, I don't know why, but is is nice being a victim too."

fool,

Its public information. Get over it. Whether you ask your neighbors or not is irrelevant. I don't care if my neighbors vote or note-I can only control if I vote. This pseudo outrage over this is just that-phoney.

DwightKSchrute
Jun 3, 2012 at 9:53 a.m.
Suggest removal

How ironic, the dems flip out when PUBLIC INFORMATION about teacher salaries is released, then they turn around and release this information
-
Comparing how much money you make to if you vote or not is like comparing apples to rocks- you know, like the ones in your head

Sorry this sentence should read: Many of the records that are linked are not verified as being the same person that signed a petition-but online it's linked for good.

This trend of publically shaming people by using public records that are obtained digitally and anonymously should be disturbing to all of us. Over the last few months a variety of Tea Party groups- specifically Put Wisconsin First (connected to Verify the Recall, Texas based True the Vote and WI Grandsons of Liberty,) have taken Recall Petitions and created searchable databases that allow you to see names, addresses and signatures of citizens who signed recall petitions. Put Wisconsin First has taken this to the extreme by creating searchable databases that let anyone look up and share information from recall signers whose name show up on government databases. First, they did sex offenders, then Tax Delinquents, and the latest is recall petitions linked to Wisconsin Circuit Court Access records. That means anyone can type in a zip code or name and see the recall petition, names, addresses, signatures and the court records of every traffic ticket, divorce bankruptcy, inheritance, and criminal record going back to the 1980’s. These taxpayer supported, online databases were never intended to be used in this manner. While this mailer isn’t as much an invasion of privacy as the Tea Party group efforts, it's alarming. This is intimidation and a gross invasion of privacy. Those that create these databases and share it can remain anonymous and have no accountability for their actions. It’s creepy. Public records are fine if one has to go to somewhere with a specific name and request a record-but using them the way Put Wisconsin First does; to anonymously use over 20, 000 court records and create links to this information with the sole purpose of intimidating and shaming private citizens is simply wrong. We need to push our legislators to get these records offline. It’s malicious gossip on a grand scale and is damaging to private citizens and businesses. Many of these records are linked to the not verified as being the same person that signed a petition-but online it's linked for good. I don’t care which side you're on, but this should alarm you.

How ironic, the dems flip out when PUBLIC INFORMATION about teacher salaries is released, then they turn around and release this information.

I,too received one of these mailer's with my name on it. I was upset to say the least.
The one thing that I found interesting is that not all of the resident's on my block were listed.Why,I don't know.My thought is,if this group is going to list people who voted & who did not their listing should be a complete one,not a partial listing.

TCB: That was one truly pathetic attempt to put words in my mouth! I don't know how you could possibly have inferred any part of that from what I wrote. Go back and read it again.

For the record (not for TCB) I have voted in EVERY single election since becoming eligible in the 1960s; I know every one of my neighbors within at least a 1/4-mile radius (that would be dozens of people) by name and; have discussed the importance of the upcoming election with many of them. I have not asked nor would I ask any of them if they had voted in the past.

fool,

Are your neighbors "total strangers"? If they are only you can change this.

Full voter turnout is around 60-65%. This means that 35-40% of those eligible to vote do not. Don't complain about your govt if your are not willing to vote.

SuperDave: The mailing informs your neighbors whether or not you voted in a previous election. If you are the sort of person who would hesitate to ask such question of a total stranger, then you understand how this might upset people.

Before easy access to digital data, public records were "publicly available" but only through considerable effort and legwork. Today, public records are published globally and immediately available at the click of a mouse.

This is another one of those legitimate perception of privacy issues that really creeps people out. (Just wait a few years, when there will be 30,000 unmanned drones flying all across the United States.)

I'm confused. The article starts out "If you received a card in the mail that listed your name, your neighbors’ names and their recent voting records, you’re not alone".
Then later on, "The information does not say—and could not say—how those people voted, of course".
Does the mailing (which I have not seen) say how people voted or not? And if not, why are Elizabeth Mullen and her husband upset about it?

Puppet master,puppet master.Fedup you sound like a parrot.If anyone is a puppet it would be you. What a knucklehead.

Why would people be upset? If they've done nothing wrong they should have nothing to worry about, right?
I'm just sayin'...

We got one of the mailers. My wife's name is on it, mine is not. We both voted in the years mentioned. It doesn't say who you voted for. I don't see any problem with it. I think many people just assume (wrongly of course) that everyone votes anyways.

The story clearly states who is responsible for the mailing. Saying it was Republicans posing as fake Democrats is just a pitiful act of desperation, just as this mailing is, too

Can't Stand Walker.

starbuck,

Maybe Gov Walker will also imprison true citizen and force true citizens wife to cook and clean his house! This of course after Walker takes away his union benefits, pension, and forces people to accept minimum wage....

What an idiot. ANyone who thinks walker is king is an absolute imbecile.

Truecitizen – “I am a government union employee who SUPPORTS Walker.” Oh really. You seem to post at various times around the clock and on various days throughout the week. Doing this on government time also?

truecitizen, Wait till scooter makes this a "Red" right to work state and takes your rights and benifits away and makes you work for less or minimum wage? Is that gonna work for ya? I doubt it.

And the source for this is WHO? the GOP watchdogs They are most likely the ones doing it as FAKE dems.

every reason to recall the jerk are more then justified GET A CLUE

The writing is on the wall!! The left is more insistent, doesn't that show their true colors? People, be strong and allow Walker to complete his job! I am a government union employee who SUPPORTS Walker. Don't let the subversive, self-insistent people PUSH you. I am only responding to what someone else created, otherwise I would be a hypocrite. Also, lets honor our election system again and allow for full terms to be uninterrupted with recalls for unworthy-of-recall reasons! If you believe this, don't sit at home Tues.......vote Walker.