@fear: You keep saying Martin was "defending himself". From what, exactly? These are not facts that we have in front of us, just idle speculation. And you keep saying that Zimmerman "had his arse handed to him", as if you are somehow proud of the fact he was being assaulted by the teen. I don't understand that attitude. Do you see that you are reading into the situation actions and motives that are not yet known? Again, we need to wait until the full investigation is complete.

"You might be a hispanic redneck if......"
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Nothing more pathetic than a self aggrandizing racist.

AParantly now assault is a crime punishable by death in the United States of the NRA. #Crazytalk

No more settling things like macho men. If you lose a fight THAT YOU STARTED!!! Just blow him away! Like I said I am sure glad that there were so many more people that settling things with their fists, if you lose, you lose. Now?? Get into a fight win? Nope the guy that picked the fight might be packing and consider shooting you because he is the weaker man and his gun is what makes him feel strong.
Heres an Idea, instead of fighting, instead of shooting, try TALKING. "Hey , its neighborhood watch, what are you dong here?" , instead this guy was a pretend Cop and tried to be a hero and is now underestanding the horror he has put a family through by his infinitely stupid actions. I do not hope he gets killed, because I do not believe in retribution. However he deserves to live the rest of his life in fear, which he certainly will now do.
I will also predict that if this guy Zimerman skates free(no charges) we will see some race riots that we have not seen since the Rodney King Riots in SC LA. Mark my words.

""If Trayvon hit him, then by all means, Zimmerman was perfectly justified in blowing him away. ""
That is rational thought at its best. So If you cannot defend yourself with your ownm hands as it certainly seems Trayvon was doing here, and you hit a guy that is approaching you (who isnt supposed to be) then its ok to "blow him away"?
Ill tell you I am glad this wasnt the mentality by every wimp that had a hall monitor type authority complex. You get your butt kicked because you are approaching someone based on his "suspicious" look? And he defends himself LIKE A MAN with his fists, and the guy gets it handed to him by a kid who is 100 lbs lighter and 10 years his junior, so now he can shoot him?
This is the problem with the gun movement in this nation. STUPID rednecks like SG talking like this. I want people to have gun rights , but to somehow make a suggestion that because Zimmermen get his arse handed to him he can now shoot to kill? DUMB! These are the people that should be weeded out of the permit process and not allowed to carry. Just awful.
I am still enjoying watching people demonizing everything Trayvon Martin and everyting he has done in his life , yet cannot point out a violent criminal history , and refuse to acknowledge he was UNARMED.
The 911 calls, him breaking the rules of his job(carrying a gun, pursuing a person at all) the FACTS that he was armed and trayvon was not, point to nothing more than racially motivated actions. UNBELIEVABLE!!
Hows about , " He appears Black, hes wearing a hoodie." Or, "Hes reaching into his waistband, and hes black."
Ya sure hes not a racist.
Maybe Trayvon Martn was no angel, WHO IS?? The problems Trayvon may or may not have had previously had NOTHING to do with the pursuit of him by an armed watchmen. He was told to not pursue and he disobeyed. He was never in any danger, until he MADE THE CHOICE to approach this young man with a weapon!!
You might be a hispanic redneck if......

you can't claim self-defense when you initiate a fight. a crime hasn't happened if you "give permission" ("hit me. hit me."; "you want a piece of this? try it"). Then you are just a stupid person who got beat up on your own agenda.

at least in Wisconsin, one of the questions in any battery: "did you ever give (enter suspect's name here) permission to hit you or hurt you in any physical way?"

you know i kind of agree to this article...however...WHY? I have 4 boys 1 a teen and 3 quickly becomming. All are great students, good people, yes moody for sure ( I get the all at once thing) but so was I. I wore the flannel shirts and concert jersey. I wore the hikeing boots (colorados) had hair down my back...yes even a mullett. Thing is people were nice to me because I was nice to people. So even though I agree we need to inform our kids of right wrong and over all bad people in the world...being nice to those around you goes a long way. Teaching just decent citizenship, and manors makes the difference every time

@dave
"He is guilty of nothing until proven so in a court of law. The knee-jerk rush to judgment in this case is appalling. We all need to wait until all of the evidence is in. It's okay to have an opinion about what you think may have, or probably happened, but to claim motivations (especially racism) or to call for guilty findings is still way premature."
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TOO BAD ZIMMERMAN DIDN'T BELIEVE THIS ABOUT TRAYVON. He wouldn't have followed him, he would have let the police do THEIR job and Trayvon would be ALIVE!

There is no "reverse" discrimination, only discrimination. And I would have no problem with Zimmerman being arrested, but I am not part of the criminal justice system in Florida so I don't get a vote. I do think that the procedures and policies regarding when to arrest and when not to arrest need to be reviewed, to see if they make sense and if they were followed in this case.
@fear: He is guilty of nothing until proven so in a court of law. The knee-jerk rush to judgment in this case is appalling. We all need to wait until all of the evidence is in. It's okay to have an opinion about what you think may have, or probably happened, but to claim motivations (especially racism) or to call for guilty findings is still way premature.

Arrest that man now, he is guilty of at very least manslaughter.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3...

WOW that is all I can say here. All the defense of the 28 year old watch Captain who violated the rules of being a watchman , not only by pursuing and approaching this kid, but carrying a firearm!
What I can tell anyone here is as a 36 year old white male I wear hoodies all the time, this whole "dress for success" montra is RIDICULOUS!! The kid was going to the store at night for candy and Iced tea, are you going to tell me that he somehow shouldnt wear a hooded sweatshirt because hes young , black and its dark? Talk about a racial stereotype!! Are we supposed to "dress for success" whgen going to the convenience store? Since when is a hooded seatwshirt a tool for crime?
Is someone going to try and tell me that because George works with black kids that exonerates him from being a racist? Or at very least an ignorant person stereotyping a young man waking down the street at night?

vatoloco
Mar 27, 2012 at 8:45 p.m.
Suggest removal Why think

If the shooter had been black...we would never have heard about this.....
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BECAUSE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED!

mteg,
That all makes sense but for the account of the girlfriend who was talking with Trayvon at the time.
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Unless you are also willing to assume that while casing Trayvon called his girlfriend to report being followed OR that his girlfriend is criminal enough to make the story up after the fact... not likely.
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In addition, let the police do their job. A kid "casing"... BS response... come on. Even if Trayvon, walking with his skittles was casing why would the police rush to the scene. The police SHOULD have better things to do that rush to the scene of a "suspicious kid walking".
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We do know that Trayvon felt threatened because he was being followed by Zimmerman. We do know that a fight then took place. We do know that to end the fight, Zimmerman shot Trayvon.
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We also know that more is done after an officer involved shooting than in this case.
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We also know Zimmerman was the only person armed.
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We also know the 911 dispatcher suggested that "we don't need you to do that" regarding following Trayvon.
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We also know, based on the 911 call at one point Zimmerman was out of breath.
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We also know that shortly after reporting being followed Tayvon ran.
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IMO, Trayvon felt threatened, defended himself and ended up dead. Trayvon is the victim.
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Do I believe or the facts point to Zimmerman being a bad guy with a gun looking to kill someone??? NO! They do point to Zimmerman being an over zealous little man with a gun that he used after engaging Trayvon and then getting his arse beat.
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Again, can "self-defense" as an argument change person?
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Can I, while armed, start a fist fight with someone or actively follow them... resulting in a fist fight and then determine I am getting my arse beat... shooting you in self-defense?
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Let's assume that Trayvon, after being followed to the point that he RAN did attack Zimmerman. Let's assume he gained the advantage in their fight.
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Can Zimmerman claim self-defense when at night he was the "aggressor" the minute he left his vehicle and began following Trayvon?
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Can I start something, finish it by killing you and later claim "SELF-DEFENSE"?

Not to accused of stereotyping, but perhaps...maybe there was a chance Zimmerman caught Martin in the act of "casing" vehichles or homes. Perhaps Zimmerman was doing his "job/volunteer/civic neighborhood duty". Perhaps he went about it the right way and called 911, only to get the BS response "we'll send someone when we get around to it". Perhaps Martin realized what Zimmerman was doing and either in anger or fear of getting arrested, attacked him. Perhaps Zimmerman, fearing for his life (while getting savagaly beaten)...defended himself-under the LEGAL definition of the law. Perhaps Zimmerman was the victim here, and will continue to be a victim based on the reverse descrimination poised by the media. Perhaps....

Regarding the weight difference. My opinion would be, that the age difference outweighed (no pun intended) the weight difference. Teenagers tend to be very unpredictable, and once the "fight" started, I'm sure the teen was a lot faster and energetic than the Hispanic man. In some ways it appears that two guys had competing agendas. Zimmerman wanted to show the criminals who's boss, Martin wanted to show that he was a man that wouldn't be messed with. Likely both of them were wrong.

What we don't know is how the confrontation actually went down. If Zimmerman didn't identify himself as a neighborhood watch captain, and said something along the lines of "what do you think you're doing in this neighborhood?", then things would escalate from there and it would be largely Zimmerman's fault. If however, he said nothing to Martin, or was polite and said something like "excuse me sir, I'm on Neighborhood Watch. Can I help you find an address, or are you all set?", well then that puts an entirely different spin on it, doesn't it? As I said before, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Perhaps Zimmerman was a little full of himself, the teen felt "dissed" and the situation went downhill from there. I hope that the investigation reveals what if any injuries the teen sustained. We do know that Zimmerman was pretty badly injured.

Ok so you do not in fact know that Zimmerman is telling the truth, in fact it is his word against the dead kid who isn’t saying much!
Did you know that Zimmerman had about 100 lb advantage on the kid, how is it that a man who weights 100 lb more than a kid can only defend himself against the kid by shooting him?
Also this man who has a reputation in his community was in violation of the neighborhood watch regulations which prohibit people from carrying weapons while on watch.
Furthermore the neighborhood watch regulations prohibit pursuing people and the dispatcher discouraged pursuing the kid!
If this “man” with such a great reputation would have used a little common sense then the kid with the skittles would still be alive today and the man wouldn’t be in hiding!

I have no proof. As stated before, it wouldn't make sense that Zimmerman would assault the teen, although it's possible. We do know that Zimmerman had a reputation in his community. We also know that he had injuries consistent with his story.
Regarding Geraldo Rivera, he was wrong only in one thing he said, that the hoodie and "look" were (paraphrasing) "probably just as responsible as the shooter". People jump all over that and basically say, so now if I wear a hoodie I must be a criminal and therefore I should be shot?!?!?
Other than attributing part of the cause to teen wardrobe choices, the rest of what he said was dead-on right. Clothes do matter. If you adopt a prison/gangsta persona, don't be surprised when people react to it accordingly. Is that fair, or right? I don't know, but it is still a fact, and all of us do it. When you're walking down a dark street and someone is approaching, you instinctively will make gut decisions and judgements as to whether that person is a threat to you. If that person happens to be a teen dressed in the manner that many teens dress, that could be threatening to an older person, and as a white man, I would find a black teen more threatening than a white teen. Sorry, that's just a fact. Now go ahead and call me a racist, but I feel that I am much more likely to be attacked by a black person than a white person. That's not racism, it's self-preservation based on observation. I have many friends in Detroit, and even some black friends have admitted to me that they would rather be approached by a white person at night than a black person. That's just another pesky fact. Are those (black) people racist? Of course not, and neither am I. So Rivera's point was dead-on. Teens are free to dress however they want, but they should be aware of the way people will perceive them. Ever heard of "Dress for Success"?

fear-I believe Geraldo Rivera is one of you're sides "douches". He didn't say anything that civil right leaders haven't been saying for years about jackets, gym shoes, jewelery etc.
The PC police strike down one of their own.
I think SuperD is right-we need to keep an open mind and get an honest investigation and go from there. Analert, please don't use your twisted logic to call me a racist again.

Super: One question, where is your proof that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman?

My guess, based on the 911 calls, is that he was bound and determined to catch the people who were committing all the recent crimes in the neighborhood. I just read something about how the ACLU is saying that following Trayvon could be "racial profiling". Good grief. As others have pointed out, had this been black-on-black, white-on-white, or especially black-on-white, we would never had heard about this.
Forget everything else you know about this story, and just consider this. Did Zimmerman do anything to justify Trayvon attacking him? It's not illegal to follow someone (wish I knew har far behind Zimmerman was, too close can be intimidating)), it does not rise to the level of "stalking" (in a legal sense) when the two people had apparently never met before. Once Trayvon attacked him, what was Zimmerman supposed to do? What would you have done in the same circumstances? Tragic that it had to rise to the level of deadly force, but it appears to be self-defense. I see no racial element. Why do so many people immediately go there?
In some ways, this might end up being judged as traffic accidents are - both drivers bear some responsibility. But it appears to me that Trayvon, by choosing to attack Zimmerman, had the last clear chance to avoid violence.

'No, I am no George Zimmerman apologist, this guy clearly had an axe to grind'

Are you saying that he had a motivation other than neighborhood watch??

And why do we keep seeing pictures of Trayvon taken years and years ago? I even saw a picture of him as a baby. No, I am no George Zimmerman apologist, this guy clearly had an axe to grind. But something much bigger is going on here at a national level - don't let yourself be manipulated by the professional media!
Here's a more recent picture of Trayvon:
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl...

And another error people keep making (sigh....), and yes, I heard the 911 tapes. You said "The police told him to back off and not follow him". Not true. The 911 dispatcher suggested that "we don't need you to do that" (I am paraphrasing). Again, this was a 911 dispatcher, not "the police". Zimmerman was well within his rights to follow Trayvon, we can debate whether that was a good idea, but there was no lawful command from a police officer, just a recommendation from a dispatcher.
And like why_think, fear - you are attributing motivation which you could not possibly know. Does the fact that he tutored black children register at all with you? Why would he tutor black children if he was a racist? That makes no sense.

@fear: You had me LOL for sure hahaha!! First of all, his name is George, not Robert, you had it right the first time. Don't confuse this guy with Bob Dylan LOL!
My hero? Hardly. Where is *that* coming from?!?!? Re-read my comments, the nicest thing I said about him that was not factual (i.e. was my opinion) is that he "sounds like a pretty stand-up guy". Note use of the term "sounds like". Since I don't know him, I can only go by the facts that are presented in the media. Based on facts I presented, that is a logical conclusion. But I also said we need to wait for all the details to come out before we get the full picture. If in fact he has a criminal record himself, then that needs to be considered also.
The larger observation to be made is how people are trying to attribute this crime to the influence of conservatives, talk radio, etc. Pretty lame. They did the same thing after the Gabby Giffords shootings. The double standard at work here is really quite astounding! And btw, did you hear that the Obama campaign is now selling "Obama 2012" hoodies. How tacky.

Anyone see that douche Geraldo Rivera's comments on hoodies? That guy might have the worlds greatest moustache, but he belongs on Faux, no question.

According to a records search on George, he was previously arrested for domestic violence, resisting an officer without violence and most shockingly, resisting an officer with violence — a felony charge that surely could have landed him in prison.

All three of those arrests, however, were mysteriously closed with no semblance of charges for the Florida resident. So how was someone with a violent past including that of battery against an officer able to carry a 9 mm handgun? Maybe that’s a question Robert Zimmerman should answer.

So tell me again how this guy is your hero Dave? This was a racially motivated killing hands down. Have you even heard the 911 tapes? The police told him to back off and not follow him, as a neighborhood watchmen his job is to watch and report , thats it. He followed Trayvon when the 911 dispatcher told him not to and he kept on following. He approached Trayvon and got his rear end handed to him and shot him because of his own prejudice, period.
How can anyone defend Zimmerman here?
Better yet how on Earth could a guy like Zimmerman get a handgun legally? Because he skates on charges thanks to daddy? Shows you exactly how screwed up the law is in Florida.

@why_think: "He followed Trayvon because of bias sterotypes about young black men. He believe he "didn't belong" because of his skin color and dress". Really? And how is it exactly that why_think knows the motivation of this Hispanic volunteer?
And your use of the term "stalk" is also biased. Is it not understandable that a neighborhood watch volunteer would want to keep in sight of an individual who was acting strangely, until a uniformed officer arrived? Note that Zimmerman was not a police officer as you said he was. A lot hinges on who became physical first. It simply makes no sense that a neighborhood volunteer would start beating on a subject he is in the process of surveiling, not knowing who the individual was or what they were doing. I think we all need to keep an open mind and wait for the full investigation to unfold. In the meantime pay attention to the facts that are presented and do not attribute motivations to anyone that you could not possibly know.

Mr. Zimmerman... my hero. NOT!
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Dave, Mr. Zimmerman was acting as a coward. He followed Trayvon because of bias sterotypes about young black men. He believe he "didn't belong" because of his skin color and dress. He stalked him until confronted, and then, according to most recent reports, once getting his arse beat, cowardly shot Trayvon dead.
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My biggest question regarding this entire incident... regardless of the law, regardless of witnesses, how can the average citizen be investigated less than a police officer when involved in a shooting that ends with the death of an unarmed kid?
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The smear campaign against Trayvon is as disgusting as the defense of Mr. Zimmerman.
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If the law allows this type of behavior the law is criminal. A great question was asked last night... Can "self-defense" change hands? Meaning, I attack you, you begin kicking my arse... can I then shoot you claiming self-defense?
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That is what happened in this case. Trayvon was being stalked and afraid. He responded by defending himself and ended up shot dead. That is very wrong and very dangerous.
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again, I am going by the most recent reports I have seen and heard. My conclusions are based on reporting by those that have talked to lawyers, witnesses, and experts.

One more thing - it is sounding more and more like Zimmerman was NOT the aggressor. Trayvon was beating the sense out of Zimmerman, Zimmerman fired his weapon in self-defense. More on that as the investigation continues.

Zimmerman was not acting as a "vigilante". He was a neighborhood watch volunteer in an area that had seen a number of crimes of recent. He and his wife also volunteer to tutor minority children, including black children, so obviously he has nothing "against" blacks. Actually sounds like a pretty stand-up guy.
Another mischaracterization we keep hearing - turns out Zimmerman, in addition to not being a racist, is also neither white nor Republican. Zimmerman is a Hispanic registered Democrat.