"In 2004, Zimmerman partnered with an African-American friend and opened up an Allstate insurance satellite office...". He seems to be quite conflicted for a "racist".
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/2...

And the beatings continue. A white man (keep in mind that Zimmerman is Hispanic) is beaten unconscious. "Now thats justice for Trayvon."
http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/23/27...
Why isn't the mainstream media reporting this to the same degree they reported the Sanford story? This is actually bigger news, because clearly there is racism. White people are being attacked by black people just for being white. This is racism! Why isn't this being reported everywhere? Why???

Another example of what happens when racial tensions are intentionally inflamed:
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/cri...

@Shopierehuh: "he shot dead after he saw the kid walking down the sidewalk". More accurate: he defended himself from a brutal attack from a man-grown teenager who had been acting strangely. Why is this so difficult for people to understand? The evidence keeps pouring in.

Will the same mob hold a vigil for zimmerman if he is found innocent? -TCB@ 11:59am,4-17

Well uh no, TCB. You see, Zimmerman is still able to enjoy himself because he is alive. This is the opposite of the kid that he shot dead after he saw the kid walking down the sidewalk.

Hispanic-on-Hispanic crime. Where's the outrage? No skittles or hoodie? I don't get the way some people think.
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/04/18/p...

Again another giant waste of time...let the courts decide what is a "Janesville Vigil" going to do...if the kid was guilty then he got what he deserved if not then the guy who shot him will....goes to show you, keep your kids safe and well educated, and guide them down the right path...or...deal with this crap

SuperDave, you've gone past decency now in your misrepresentation of the article you cited. The article you cite as an example of how Obama is using the death of Trayvon Martin for political gain never ONCE mentions that incident. It would be just as ignorant and inaccurate of you to blame Romney for his advantage amongst less educated white men as it would be to blame Obama for his advantage amongst highly educated women; or any other advantage that can be drawn from the article. These are HISTORICAL divisions that have been in place since well before Obama and Romney ran for office. Have you no shame?

This is the type of division I'm talking about. This is how Mr. Obama used the tragic death of Trayvon Martin for his own political gain. The man just continues to divide us.
http://decoded.nationaljournal.com/2012/...

This is typical miss-direction. A likely push by the admin to deflect from the current economic mess and to push their anti-gun agenda. They got caught and burned by the whole fiasco in fast and furious but still want to push the anti-gun agneda. Why you might ask? Because -- if they get what they want and totally kill off capitalism and the free market, we will have a depression. They do not want the public to have arms -- there would be a massive issue with an armed society.

Will the same mob hold a vigil for zimmerman if he is found innocent?

SupetDave said, "Bottom line: we don't know what happened. But even though Zimmerman may have made some mistakes, the totality of the evidence points to self-defense. Any other conclusion at this point is illogical."

You just acknowledged that you don't know what happened. You then go on to speculate, without knowledge of what happened, what had happened. And furthermore, you declare any alternative conclusions to your speculation are illogical!

If anything is illogical it is your attempt to speculate as to what happened after acknowledging that you don't know what happened.

Hey Motorman! Thanks for weighing in. You may want to rethink your statement. Bottom line: we don't know what happened. But even though Zimmerman may have made some mistakes, the totality of the evidence points to self-defense. Any other conclusion at this point is illogical.
And there is a much more important bigger picture! Dem politicians, the mainstream media, and of course the race industry all piled on to this tragic case for their own political gain. If you are buying into their "Zimmerman was racist, he profiled, stalked and attacked Martin in cold blood" narrative, you are being used my friend. Please read some of my previous comments on this thread for more information.

God people enough is enough!
All your speculations are going nowhere.
Let the courts do there job,all these comments are doing nothing but hurting these two families,how will this man ever get a fair trial,no body knows squat,but "ONE" person,give it a break with your mouths,let your ears do the walking!!

SuperDave said, "I am still waiting for Mr. Obama to say some reassuring words to the nation..."

There's quite a few people that can hardly sleep at night without the sound of Obama's voice and reassuring words echoing in their minds. May I recommend that you listen to "Hope, Change and History (Barack Obama's Greatest Speeches Including Inaugural Oath and Address)" before going to bed. I'm sure you'll find reassurance and comfort in one or more of the following tracks:

1. Thank You Intro

2. Presidential Oath of Office

3. Inaugural Address

4. Election Night Victory Address

5. Democratic Nominee Acceptance Address

6. We Are One (Featuring a More Perfect Union)

7. Iowa Caucus

8. A More Perfect Union

9. 2007 Presidential Candidacy Announcement

10. Yes We Did (Featuring New Hampshire Primary Address)

Sadly, there may be no one other than Zimmerman who observed how the whole thing went down, including the critical first few moments. If that is the case, and if Martin truly has no other injuries other than the GSW, it seems there is no case against Zimmerman. I won't hold my breath waiting for the apologies (to Zimmerman and his family, not me) by all those who said the nastiest things about him.
I am still waiting for Mr. Obama to say some reassuring words to the nation - something that unites us, rather than divide us.

Here's a look at the original police report, stating plainly that Zimmerman was indeed bleeding from his nose and the back of his head. He was also treated at the scene prior to being taken to the Police Dept. He also had grass stains on the back of his clothes. All of this supports self-defense.
http://www.dominionofnewyork.com/2012/04...

@Sarah: To answer your question, no I have not. I do most of my charitable work via my checkbook. I have volunteered at soup kitchens, food pantries, meals-on-wheels and the like. I have also worked with a team to spruce up (exterior paint, yardwork, plant flowers, etc.) at the property of an elderly black woman in a "bad" part of town (not Janesville). I have also been a part of many fund-raising events, both as an active participant (e.g. ran a marathon and personally raised over $3500 for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society) and of course also as a donor. But lately I typically just write a check or go online and donate with a credit card.
Sarah, I know you are also a caring person and I truly respect that. But I feel like you and many others are missing the big picture. The question is not why there is "less outrage" over some crimes than others. The question is why is there such a tremendous outpouring for the Martin family, vs. families of other victims in similar circumstances. After all, tragic deaths happen every day in this country. Every single day. And many have similarities to the Sanford case. I have outlined my feelings on this numerous times, but it doesn't seem to sink in for some people. You really have to answer that question for yourself, but for me the answer is clear and unambiguous.

SuperDave asked, "Why no outrage when it is black-on-black? And if white-on-black is racism, why is black-on-white not racism? There is a greater lesson here, and many people are missing it."

There is outrage over black on black violence and there are many community leaders across the nation addressing the issue. The media generally makes it very easy for you to ignore the outrage. You would know the outrage is there if you had enough interest to get involved and help in addressing the underlying problems. White on black violence, as well as black on white violence, is not necessarily a consequence of racism.

The greater lesson is that people should ignore your attempts to assert your opinions as fact.

@made: As to your point #1, I will take your statistic at face value, but that still doesn't explain the reason that the public outrage only seems to appear when the victim is black and the attacker is not black. Why no outrage when it is black-on-black?
And if white-on-black is racism, why is black-on-white not racism? There is a greater lesson here, and many people are missing it.

Three Hundred ninety-nine comments and yet know one really knows the TRUTH. How many of you witnessed the shooting? How many of you know exactly what happened? How many of you are willing to be judged like you have judged?

@totellthetruth: Thanks for that link. It is supportive of my previous statement that it seems like all of national attention, Dem. politician's comments, and of course race industry involvement only happen when the victim is black, and the shooter/attacker is not black. That's extremely sad in and of itself, but you have to analyze the reasons behind it. Short answer - political gain. There is simply no political gain if the shooter/attacker is black. If you speak out against such a person, you get called "racist" by those who are either ignorant or calculating.

I see allot of assumtions, misstatements, interpretations -- The only assumption or interpretation I can see is that the presecutor had better have some additional evidence in order to convict on murder 2, beyond what we have been presented publicly to date. Even manslaughter would be difficult to prove, but possible. One concern is that public opinion played a role in the charges and not evidence. Additional concerns -- whether we agree or disagree on the policies, laws etc... are that people are using this case for political, ideology and financial gains. Its tragic and I wish that people could just stand back and let this all play out instead of convicting ANYONE in the court of public opinion. I have taken a counter position to some of what I would call witchunt statements on this board. Very hateful comments that race baited people. That needs to end.

RetiredAirForce said, "I have consistently pointed out the erroneous information posted as facts when they clearly aren't." [ http://www.gazettextra.com/weblogs/lates... ]

No, you clearly have not, RAF. I refer you to the numerous representations of hearsay and media soundbites that SuperDave has represented as facts. You've not taken one exception to his representation of hearsay and media soundbites as facts in his comments.

Comments such as, "Seems like once he started slamming Zimmermans head on the ground, he kind of lost his victim status." Or how about his comment, "Do you actually think Zimmerman slammed his own head against the ground to produce those injuries?" Do you think it is a fact that Martin slammed Zimmerman's head on the ground, RAF? Do you think it is a fact that Zimmerman sustained injuries that evening, RAF? Do you think it is a fact that, if Zimmerman did sustain injuries that evening, they resulted from Martin slamming Zimmerman's head into the ground?

Are those facts, RAF? If so, established by what authority? If not, why did you give SuperDave a pass instead of having "consistently pointed out" that they were not facts as you claim you have "consistently" done?

Are you going to spend all of your time fighting back against comments pointing out the discrepancies between your actions and statements or are you going to try to establish some credibility for yourself of having "consistently pointed out the erroneous information posted as facts" by taking a stand against the comments I've cited above?

RAF has now taken two positions on himself having "consistently pointed out the erroneous information posted as facts."

"I have consistently pointed out the erroneous information posted as facts when they clearly aren't."

"Absent a comment is not consent..."

If you were truly interested in CONSISTENTLY pointing out erroneous information posted as fact, the absence of comment on some misrepresentations, and not others, does not suffice. Particularly when the comments you choose to comment on fall on one side of anissue and the comments you choose to not comment on fall on another side of the same issue. Disingenuous and selective application of criticism, RAF. Pure and simple. There's still time for you to express your criticism of SuperDave's representation of hearsay and media soundbites as facts, RAF.

""It's possible that he wanted to maintain a visual on Martin untill police arrived""
Um now whos speculating on what means what?

""I think the prosecution going for the Murder in 2nd vs. manslaughter was stupid on their part (or smart if they are looking to have him get off).""
Now thats a funny comment coming from a person speculating. Maybe the prosecutors are charging him with second degree murder because they have done something that YOU or Raf or myself havent done, an investigation of the evidence!! A charge was made based by an investigation. Not based on partisan ideology, not based on network sensationalism, not based on anything but EVIDENCE and testimony. Will he be convicted? Certainly up in the air since Casey Anthony just walked, but we shall see.

Mteg are you an attorney? What qualifies you to comment on the intelligence of the prosecutors pursuing certain charges? OR are you hearing that from say another news network? With their "experts"? Because I have heard that before as well, on one particular network so I am assuming you are parroting some points put forth by another "news" organization which is "fair and balanced".

There is a big difference between "we don't need you to do that","we don't want you to do that", and "don't do that". It's possible that he wanted to maintain a visual on Martin untill police arrived. I'm interested in hearing the details of what happened between the time of following him, untill the time of the shooting. Untill then, he's innocent in my eyes going under the definition of law. I think the prosecution going for the Murder in 2nd vs. manslaughter was stupid on their part (or smart if they are looking to have him get off).

""I have consistently stated all sources make mistakes, all the time.""
Talk about uttering. All you do is utter about NBC, CNN, Huff post, etc... , NEVER do you harp on Fox , Ruch, Maciver, heritage for their slant and misreporting. All I ever see from you is calling out others for using liberal sources for making their points. While you try in your post to make it appear as if you are against all media bias, it is very clear you are only into harping one side for unfair bised reporting and not the side which you support.
BTW you are still stuck on semantics. He was instructed not to follow no matter how you would like to spin it. Obviously a group of prosecutors in Florida dont agree with the play on words, I guess only the courts will bear out what is the real story and not RAF the English teacher/Lawyer. Maybe someone should question the 911 dispatcher(surely they will) maybe they should ask if his words were implied to NOT follow or if it was a simple request. Unbelievable how far some people will go to defend their points , even when they are ridiculoous!!
Keep using the uttered adjective when quoting me, I like it!! Shows how deparate you're getting.

fear uttered "Your hatred for NBC and CNN (not FOX hilariously enough) as poor news organizations is well noted."
-
Unlike you I don't hate. I don't respect the actions they perpetrated in the least. I have consistently stated all sources make mistakes, all the time. The difference here was not only the scope but the shaping of the message was just disgusting. It was done to feed the warped few that see everything based on color and race instead of an incident between two people. Unlike you I know more than one network is biased and untrustworthy on many stories.

fear uttered ""We don't need you to follow him." What does that say to you? To any SANE individual (your words) that says- DONT FOLLOW."
-
LOL, what is says is exactly what it says! We don't need you to follow. It doesn't say DONT FOLLOW. What is so hard with telling the truth? It is not about what you think was intended it is about the facts. Coulda-Shoulda-Woulda is kind of pointless after the fact as it changes nothing.

This man will never get a fare trial,and the outcome will not please everyone,and the kid that died can not tell the whole story,so who will be the winners in this,no one!!

*A person previously commented, "White people will be the minorities by the year 2050...That's very scary!" *

Actually, no, they will simply be a plurality. There will be no "majority" and hence there can be no "minorities".

@walter: Right back atcha buddy :)

SuperDave said, "I have explained myself in enough detail that a third-grader could understand, you two choose to see the world through your own liberal filters instead of simply weighing the evidence."

Your "weighing the evidence" is the problem. You're weighing air and treating it like gold. I'm not going to treat hearsay and media soundbites as facts or evidence. I am not applying any bias, liberal or otherwise, as I'm very content to wait for this to work its way through the courts without speculating or representing hearsay and media soundbites as facts and evidence.

Raf- Once again talking to you is ike talking to a brick wall.
How about the Orlando Sentinel? Is that too liberal for you?
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012...
"We don't need you to follow him." What does that say to you? To any SANE individual (your words) that says- DONT FOLLOW. He chose to ignore and now he faces responsibility.
Your hatred for NBC and CNN (not FOX hilariously enough) as poor news organizations is well noted. However ALL media on TV are sensationalistic and looking for ratings, so when you gon hating TV stations , hate them all, not just ones that happen to lean away from your partisan beliefs.

Motorman- Your comments are interesting. I have been thinking exactly the opposite. I have never owned a handgun, but given our troubled economic situation, the rhetoric from the far left, the presidents position on class warfare, the lack of control of groups like the BPP and others.... I am concerned that our trained police will be overwhelmed and unprepared.

Wow. Suddenly SuperDave is a zen master. Way to go buddy, but did you really just write "ciao and peace out"? Here's a couple more for ya: "deuces" and "kick rocks". God bless you and God bless America.

@fear and poobah: Nice try, repeating the same attacks on me over and over still don't make them rational. I will continue to state my opinions at will. You will continue to read them. I have explained myself in enough detail that a third-grader could understand, you two choose to see the world through your own liberal filters instead of simply weighing the evidence. fear, you do make some valid points from time to time; however poobah...poobah...(and please excuse my use of the term "stupid", I don't go after posters in the attack mode that you employ, I am much more interested in ideas) but you remind me of the quote "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience". It has come to the point that I will no longer read posts by either of you, I simply have much better things to do with my time, and many more positive people in my life on which to focus. So have great lifes, fear and poobah, enjoy yourselves here, and good luck. You will, guaranteed, posts replies to my decision (poobah will probably paste this entire post LOL), but rest assured that I will no longer read anything you post. For me, it's about life priorities, and removing as much random negativity and pointless irrationality from my life as possible. Ciao and peace out.
To all thoughtful posters, please continue to share your thoughts, I do enjoy constructive and mutually respectful banter. It's a beautiful day - enjoy it :)

The "shoot first" law will be on trial just as much as George Zimmerman will be in this case. Hopefully, all the attention will create enough public outcry against that wild west type of law that it will be repealed or modified. I believe it will be tough to convict Zimmerman of the charge. Typically, only charges that the prosecutors think they can get a conviction on are filed. Of course, it's always possible that there's something underhanded going on behind the scenes. Nothing would be shocking at this point. It's been bungled from the start.

"Guns do not belong in the hands of anyone but those trsined to use them-..."-analertcitizen@ 11:12pm

Oooh. You mean like this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ufT_6Kg...

Not at all motorman, not at all. No one should have been shot that night. What a tragedy. Guns do not belong in the hands of anyone but those trsined to use them- and I don't mean a " course" in how to use a gun- I mean a "course" in how to prevent using a gun.

I think you're right Dwight.

"Unfortunately we have people playing meaningless games with semantics and trying to make ridiculous points"
-
Yes, like he was told not to do something by a dispatcher and broke rules for watch group; not. When the truth is he wasn't told not to do something and he didn't belong to a group with these rules.

The only thing worse than CNN and NBC in their editgate and racialslurgate is posters here and their fallacygate posts.

Being charged and getting a conviction are two different things. Convincing a jury, without a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman committed second-degree murder is going to be an extremely difficult task, especially with the laws Florida has on the books. Quite frankly, I think the prosecutors over-charged him knowing a jury won't convict him of second-degree murder. The prosecutors just didn't want to be the "bad guys". Pass the buck to the jury.

I am not privy to the FACTS in this case but 2nd degree murder charges seem extreme. Using media sources which are anything but accurate it seems to me that manslaughter might have been a more relevant charge... but I don't have the FACTS at hand.

Unfortunately Dave is talking in circles and you can point out specific instances in which he is doing exactly what he chastizes others for, and brings political party into the mix as if that has anything to do with it.
Remember Poobah this is the guy who expressed his own exceptions to the commandment "Thou shalt not kill". Heres what we know: the FACTS and evidence were presented to a TEAM of prosecutors and they saw fit to CHARGE him with SECOND DEGREE MURDER. Not involuntary manslaughter, manslaughter, second degree murder. He will face a life sentence. So again keep spinning around and around Dave, contradicting yourself all you like, but now we have charges. In Florida that means little as Casey Anthony walked away from murdering her daughter.
Unfortunately we have people playing meaningless games with semantics and trying to make ridiculous points based on partisan politics. At some point we need to stop politica bantering. Please dave if you are truly a god fearing man, send some prayers to Trayvon Martins family, THEY lost a son, in all of your ridiculousness you seem to have forgotten that.

SuperDave said, "Have you noticed how you are the only person that doesn't understand my posts, and jumps to the conclusion that I am presenting my opinions as fact?"

So, you make us aware of a new mystical skill you possess - the ability to determine what people understand and don't understand. You do things like this so automatically and repeatedly that it doesn't even give you reason to pause when you make such comments.

SuperDave said, 'Also, I am not a reporter or part of the media, so I don't need to use the words "allegedly" or "reportedly".'

I believe every person, not only reporters and people associated with the media, should be held to the standard of not presenting hearsay and soundbites as facts.

Obviously you didn't see the video of the injuries. Pretty obvious. Also, I am not a reporter or part of the media, so I don't need to use the words "allegedly" or "reportedly". And of course explicitly stating that I was not there, I don't know what happened, only Zimmerman knows, we need to wait for all the evidence, etc. etc. allows me to then state my opinions based on the information available. What is wrong with you? Do you not understand the language? Are you from another country? You are testing the limits poobah. I know you are a liberal Democrat, I am not, I get that. But please try to be rational, at least a little bit. Have you noticed how you are the only person that doesn't understand my posts, and jumps to the conclusion that I am presenting my opinions as fact? Why is that?
And where is Mr. Obama? When will he weigh in with something that brings the country together? Will you vote for divisiveness in November, or change?

SuperDave said, "Why do you keep saying that even if I give explicit disclaimers and flatly state that only Zimmerman knows what happened, that somehow I am presenting my opinions as facts."

Because you make statements such as, "Seems like once he started slamming Zimmermans head on the ground, he kind of lost his victim status." That is presented as a fact. You did not use the words allegedly or reportedly. "Explicit disclaimers" don't negate what you're doing.

SuperDave said, "Do you actually think Zimmerman slammed his own head against the ground to produce those injuries?"

You see, you just did it again! Representing that Zimmerman had injuries to his head as a fact. I simply refuse to speculate whether or not Zimmerman had injuries and, if so, whether or not they occurred during the incident. You keep doing the same thing over and over and it demonstrates how disingenuous your admonishments are to others for doing the exact same thing.

SuperDave said, "Give it up already, lady!"

I'm a male and that is a fact.

The facts in this case are as follows, Martin was shot after a physical confrontation. Everything else in the case is opinion. Another fact though is that all to often so called civic leaders are actually not leaders at all. Whether it is Sam Liebert or Al Sharpton, to conclude that a crime took place without the evidence to back it up is a severe lack of leadership. If the evidence shows that Zimmerman acted in self defense Sam Liebert will not apologize for being wrong. He and others like him never do. Black liberation theology prohibits admitting wrong ever. Sam Liebert has used race bating in the past and will probably do the same in the future. It is shameful.

Hooray, I heard Zimmerman was arrested and charged with 2nd degree murder! This should delay the rioting and subsequent deaths until after the November elections.
@poobah: Give it up already, lady! Why do you keep saying that even if I give explicit disclaimers and flatly state that only Zimmerman knows what happened, that somehow I am presenting my opinions as facts. You are making no sense. Do you actually think Zimmerman slammed his own head against the ground to produce those injuries? It seems that you are one of those that are being duped by the media and the race industry.
And I repeat - where is Mr. Obama on all of this? Seriously - where is He?

A few examples of racism for Ezoner who must have been sleeping at the wheel, unreal. Your ignorance is absolutely dumb. People like me are the problem? Its people like you that are simply in total denial:

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-new...

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-f...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/04/m...

http://theworldofdavid.wordpress.com/201...

http://dailycensored.com/2011/05/06/inst...

http://owni.eu/2011/03/12/racism-in-adve...

Its people like YOU that are the problem Ezoner. Come out of your bubble and wake up! Racism is everywhere, denying it doesnt make it true. I know SEVERAL african-americans that grew up in the south. I also know several that grew up in WIsconsin, and there is racism all over, everywhere. If you believe that there isn't you are ignorant, period. Talk about being used.

George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who says he was acting in self-defense when he fatally shot an unarmed teenager in Sanford, Florida, has been charged with second-degree murder, special prosecutor Angela Corey announced Wednesday.

"News conference regarding charges will be held at 5 p.m. (our time) today." -SarahB1

That will be interesting. It made me think, if they bring charges against the self-appointed, untrained, watch captain/vigilante, will the right wingers riot? I would guess that if the right wingers rioted, it would consist of beating up homeless people and throwing uninsured people out of the emergency rooms, that kind of stuff.

@ezoner- Your statement that the only racism you've seen in 30 years allows me to believe that you don't understand the meaning of institutional racism in the least. One quick glance through many of these blogs indicates that we live in a community that is frighteningly racist. I've said it before- it gives me a creepy feeling.

SuperDave said, "I love it when people describe their opinions as "facts". Several times in this thread someone has accused me of "acting like" or "sounding like" my opinions are facts, when in *fact* I said no such thing, and have even laced my opinions with disclaimers!"

Still using your disclaimers as a license to speculate, I see. I've never suggested you were "acting like" or "sounding like" your opinions were facts. I said straight up with no qualifiers whatsoever that you were presenting hearsay and media soundbites as fact. For instance, when you said, "Seems like once he started slamming Zimmermans head on the ground, he kind of lost his victim status." I don't see the words allegedly or reportedly in that statement.

Fear -- the only racism I have seen in 30 years is coming from people like the BPP, People like Rev Wright, and those that continue to view the country from the 1960's perspective (You included). You dont know my background, where I grew up, who my freinds are/were or even what color I am. Im telling you what reality is for most in rural US. Or a medium to small town US city. Are their people that are racist/sexist -- from our perspective -- sure -- Some live in Iran, you could even claim India and the cultural view of women in those countries. But here -- not many and this case doesnt even come close to it. I see people like you trying to make this a race issue as the racist. Continually putting blacks down -- that they need protection for whites, that they somehow need to have more support, they are unable to care for themsleves and need to be protected. That whites are just itching for a reason -- you are the racist in my eyes. People like you are the problem.

Actually, here are the facts. Zimmerman, a volunteer neighborhood watchman, saw a individual that looked suspicious in his eyes. The individaul had a hoodsweatshirt, with hood pulled up over his head, and appeared to be under the influence of something. Zimmerman called 911. The dispatcher asked Zimmerman the race of the indivdual which was a black male. Zimmerman told the 911 dispatcher that he was monitoring the individual, and the dispatcher told him that he didnt need to do that. At one point there was a physical confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin. Zimmerman who was armed with a handgun(against neighborhood watch guidelines, but legal under state law)shot and killed Martin in accordance with the state law "Stand your ground". The investigation is ongoing as to if Martin or Zimmerman provoked the attack, and if Martin exhibited behavior that would cause Zimmerman to fear for his life.

Thnaks mteg, I was going to say basically the same thing. I love it when people describe their opinions as "facts". Several times in this thread someone has accused me of "acting like" or "sounding like" my opinions are facts, when in *fact* I said no such thing, and have even laced my opinions with disclaimers!

the FACTS here are clear(OPINION). A young man is dead (FACT) who shouldnt be (OPINION), because a man carrying a gun decided to be judge and jury and convict(OPINION). Trayvons sentence of death(OPINION) imposed by Zimmerman(OPINION) can never be overturned(FACT), ever. Zimmerman broke the rules of Watch(OPINION?GUIDELINES), pursued when he was told not to(ADVISED THAT HE DIDNT NEED TO), and now a young man is dead(FACT).
At least there will be charges filed.(NON-FACTUAL AS OF RIGHT NOW)

the FACTS here are clear. A young man is dead who shouldnt be, because a man carrying a gun decided to be judge and jury and convict. Trayvons sentence of death imposed by Zimmerman can never be overturned, ever. Zimmerman broke the rules of Watch, pursued when he was told not to, and now a young man is dead.
At least there will be charges filed.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/os-tr...

Orlando Sentinel Article:http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-24/news/os-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-20120321_1_zimmerman-community-ties-neighborhood-watch

The Neighborhood Watch at Retreat at Twin Lakes, where Zimmerman lived and was chosen as coordinator by his neighbors, was formed in September, Dorival said. It is not registered with the national group, but there is no registration requirement. The Sanford Police Department provides training and community signs, and informs residents about crime trends and prevention.

Zimmerman raised no red flags during an organizational meeting Sept. 22, and no one had complained about him before the shooting, Dorival said.

Sanford and the Volusia County Sheriff's Office have another volunteer program called Citizens on Patrol. In Volusia, those volunteers ride two to a Sheriff's Office-issued car. They undergo background and driver checks, an hourlong interview and 60 hours of training.

"We don't want any cop wannabes or people thinking they're going out and acting like cops and making arrests," sheriff's spokesman Gary Davidson said. "If we think that's the motivation, we're going to weed them out."

Neighborhood Watch, by contrast, is less formal and is run by residents — although volunteers in both programs are told not to confront anyone. Their job is to observe and describe suspicious people or cars to law officers and help make their neighbors aware of problems.

"We tell people, 'Don't be a hero,'" Dorival said. "Don't risk it."

Watch group improved other Sanford neighborhood

Sherry Davis, coordinator of Lordland Neighborhood Watch near Sanford, credits the group with ridding her community of prostitution and drugs.

"The Neighborhood Watch around here has been a really good thing because it has slowed the drug activity," said Davis, 48, a grandmother of 13. "If it's here, it's not as open as it was."

Some Neighborhood Watches meet monthly. Others meet every six months, for occasional social gatherings or not at all, Dorival said.

The Orlando Police Department and the Orange County Sheriff's Office require groups to meet twice a year and have participation from 40 percent of the homes in a watch area. The annual National Night Out anticrime block party counts as one meeting.

Coordinators such as Zimmerman assign block captains, act as liaisons to their law-enforcement agency's crime-prevention specialist and disseminate information to residents. They often are described as an extra set of eyes and ears for officers who can't be everywhere at once.

"The police can't do it all," said Tutko, who has spent four decades in law enforcement. "They need the people to be involved. As tragic as this situation is, I still think Neighborhood Watch is the best way for citizens to get involved in their communities."

Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association, said Zimmerman broke some cardinal rules.

First, he approached a stranger he suspected of wrongdoing.

"If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job," Tutko said. "This guy went way beyond the call of duty. At the least, he's overzealous."

Second, Zimmerman carried a handgun. Police departments and sheriff's offices that train volunteers advise them never to carry weapons — though Zimmerman broke no laws by doing so because he has a concealed-weapons permit.

"There's no reason to carry a gun," Tutko said.

Police said Zimmerman was running an errand in his SUV — with his gun — when he first spotted Trayvon walking back from 7-Eleven about 7:15 p.m. Zimmerman called police to report Trayvon as suspicious, and although a dispatcher said he didn't need to follow the teen, the two got into a scuffle.

Zimmerman shot Trayvon once in the chest with a 9 mm handgun, officers said. The 17-year-old died steps from the home of his father's fiancée, where he had been visiting. Zimmerman claimed self-defense and was not arrested. Because of public outrage, a special prosecutor, the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI are investigating.

Please Remember
You are not being asked to take personal risks, only to serve as extra "eyes and ears" and to report information on crimes and suspicious activities promptly to:
9-1-1 for emergencies
(crimes in progress or life-threatening situations)
A neighborhood watch site for Sugarland Texas so we are clear what this is supposed to be.
http://www.sugarlandtx.gov/police/servic...

Wash Post article here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/g...

Ezoner and Dave, we are obviously talking in circles here. RAF is a whole different animal all together, hard to take serious anyone who refuses to actually address the facts and pick apart semantics.Try to remember RAF you arent a lawyer, just an anonymous poster on a website. Its okay to post an opinion, even if in the end it ends up being incorrect. As it now appears GZ will be charged.
Reality? No offense but a guy like Dave who claims to be a good Christian man , condones killing of convenience or revenge. Is that reality? Ezoner , you are simply a rhetoric machine without a clue of what reality is.
You lived in VA for 7 whole years? WOW, I suppose that makes you an expert on southern Racism. My very good friend and his family grew up in Atlanta Georgia his whole life. Oh yes he is black. You want to ask him what it was like? I can tell you what you dont want to hear , this is a historically racist nation. LOOK AT OUR HISTORY FOR GOD'S sake!! What country has a worse civil rights record than ours?? I dont need to "feed" any perception, the perception is reality.
That being said , this is about justice not race for me. You can transform it all you like. This is about a watchmen disobeyin instruction and the rules of being a watchmen by carrying a weapon, and by pursuit of this young man WITH a weapon.

Where is Mr. Obama on all of this? As the tensions continue to build, why isn't he addressing the American people, and telling us that cooler heads should prevail, that whatever decision is made regarding Zimmerman he has the utmost confidence that they have looked at all of the evidence and decided fairly, that his justice department has examined the case closely and determined that there is no racial element in this tragedy, that we are all Americans and we need to be kind to each other.
Where is Mr. Obama?

Sarah -- wouldnt we all have issues when.... The BPP issues bountys -- dead or alive threats
There are people asking for blood in the streets.
People are issuing personal contact information.
The media is hounding people including those with no connection to the case.
Political and other groups are harrassing the community as well as those involved.
Not to mention -- he is likely feeling badly about the events themselves without all the attention.

What gets me is all the people that want to feed into this without regard for the affect.

Ezoner:
You're absolutely right. All this rhetoric did motivate me. I have now purchased a gun to protect myself from Neighborhood Watch volunteers.

Yes, Sarah, and that "issue" is known as PTSD.

Fear -- yourre being blinded by reality. You need to step back - You take one video and now thats everyone.... not. I lived in VA for 7 yrs. You are wrong about the south. That is a stero-type (much the same as the one yourre defending for Treyvon) that simply isnt true. This has been ginned up into a political issue for oportunistic reasons. It is being used (like you) to energize the base and specifically to energize a race before the election. You are simply falling for the ploy. Like most far lefts -- you want to blame everyone but those that create the problems. GZ did exactly what I would have wanted a neighborhood watch person to do in my neighborhood. In fact -- if this rhetoric continues -- I would expect many people to be in the market to purchase protection -- from the people spewing the rhetoric and garbage. You need to wake up..

"Most of the (white) south is racist." The irony in a statement like that is just too delicious.

I think what happened was the media made this story what they wanted it to be and the liberal left jumped on it after this. Now we know this story was doctored to fit their needs but their still is an uproar. Right now the powers that be are trying to find an outcome that will please everyone. As I see this without the facts I think Zimmerman is the one that was discriminated against because he was found guilty by so many and the media portrayed him as a racist but that seems not to be the case. Very sad a man this man has to go through this. I agree if he was proven to be tring to kill Travon Martin then he should be punished.

@fear: You said "And BTW this nation IS racist". Thank you for proving my point. The only way people can jump on the hate-Zimmerman bandwagon is for them to have a pre-existing mindset such as that. Your comment completely validates my point.
My own feeling is that we are a diverse country, and yes, within any group of people (of all colors and all backgrounds) some of them will harbor racist opinions. Personally, being a white male, I have experienced much more racism from black people and sometimes other groups, than I have ever observed amongst white people. But that's just my experience. I'm sure many black people experience it from whites. But that does not equate to "this nation IS racist". If your opinion were fact, then Mr. Obama would never have been elected by a majority-white nation. The numbers simply do not support "this nation IS racist". And your type of distorted thinking is what is fueling the racial tension surrounding this story.

"The video portrays typical conservative voters all across the nation."
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Yeah, okay Graeme.

"Especially since watchmen are not supposed to be armed. Watchmen are not supposed to pursue. What part of that are you not understanding?"
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Was he part of some type of official program? Did he receive training and guidance for this? I ask because I haven’t seen the facts for it. If he had been trained one way and acted another that is an issue. If he was part of an ad hoc program your statement has no case over the incident. What part of that don't you understand...sarcasm intended to your hypocritical condescension.

"The order was IMPLIED in the statement, if you cannot see that, you just dont want to"
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The order? You have indeed lost perspective.

"If the dispatcher had known Zimmerman was pursuing with a firearm, what do you think he maty have said?"
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I'm not positive on that state's firearm carry law. If he was legal to carry in the way he did, the dispatcher had no legal standing to say anything about it: a red herring.

"This is America, our president should be American, not Muslim."

WHy do you hate Obama? "first of all his name is Obama"
Is it because hes black? "Hes not black, hes a half breed"

"We believe in Adam and Eve, not Adam and STeve"

Hilarious videoabout Mississippi the most conservative state in the Union. The video portrays typical conservative voters all across the nation.

Dave said;"People are attending rallies, donating money, and most importantly voting Democrat, because this incident feeds into the template that this is a racist country at its core,""
You my friend are truly off your meds. That kind of statement is somehow legitimate? What an absolute joke! People attending rallies are the problem? No sir its right wing repeaters like you and Ezoner that are the problem. And BTW this nation IS racist. At least most of the south is. Case in point:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuI2LEKHGiQ
Please stop with this insane rhetoric. This is not a political issue, not partisan. It is a right vs wrong issue. I would also remind you that people(like you) are donating money to a website that GZ started!! Just giving him money! Hilarious!

Semantics RAF, thats all you have. If the dispatcher had known Zimmerman was pursuing with a firearm, what do you think he maty have said? Especially since watchmen are not supposed to be armed. Watchmen are not supposed to pursue. What part of that are you not understanding?

""The dispatcher did say they didn't need him to follow. Facts are a tough thing. He was never told don't follow, "" What is the difference RAF, do you honestly believe that the dispatcher meant for him to follow if he wants to? That they just didnt need him to follow? The order was IMPLIED in the statement, if you cannot see that, you just dont want to. It was NOT a part of his job to follow this young man, he decided to go against the "advice" of the dispatcher, now its time to be held responsible for your actions.
""A sane person understands the end result was senseless and a waste of life"" one thing that you will not find from many on this board. Case in point See first paragraph.

fear stated "But keep beating your media hating drum, it works for you. I am more concerned with the unjust shooting and death of a young man for "looking suspicious" to the eyes of one neighborhood watchman."
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It is apparent by your remarks you have jumped on the bandwagon of with others, like the statement above; instead of dealing with the facts. A sane person understands the end result was senseless and a waste of life. Drumming false innuendoes with statements of shooting a young man for looking suspicious is not only full of false rhetoric it does nothing to resolve the issue or bring justice to the harmed.

fear stated "your plays on Semantics are cute but not in anyway factual. The didnt need him to follow means dont follow him. Your perception on the facts is not shocking, not at all."
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Really? I am using the real words; you are the one using semantics to infer meaning. The facts are easy to see and read, hardly shocking.

Sarah stated "Come on! If a police dispatcher tells you that " ... Okay, we don't need you to do that ...", then anybody with any respect for the police would take that to mean, " ... We don't want you to pursue the guy any farther ...". I would think that someone like you who has served in the military would fully understand this. Zimmerman, unfortunately, ignored the dispatcher"
-
Dispatchers are professional communicators, they are also well versed in what they can legally say and do. If they wanted him to stop, that would have been exactly what they said. After your years in the medical community I am sure you also know what a doctor means but if it is not in written orders it doesn't stand. But neither your years in the medical field or mine in the military have anything to do with this story...just another distraction.

poobah, What is your thoughts on the story? Who is at fault in your opinion?
And when you said-We should all be outraged at the PREVENTABLE DEATHS of 21,000 children under the age of five EVERY SINGLE DAY throughout the world.
Shouldn’t we all be outraged at anyones death? Even if their over 5?

SuperDave, that is exactly what I said...almost every comment of yours has a disclaimer that you have no idea what happened, as though the disclaimer gives you some license to then speculate with your version of the story as you yourself rush to judgment.

For instance, your disclaimers have varied from, "I..do..not..know..what..happened..that...night," to "Some of these pesky items that have been reported may turn out to be incorrect later, upon full investigation."

Those disclaimers are then accompanied by PARAGRAPHS of your speculation as to what happened with phrases like this comment of yours, "Seems like once he started slamming Zimmermans head on the ground, he kind of lost his victim status."

If you're so concerned, as you claim, about others rushing to judgment and speculating what happened, you should really not rush to judgment and speculate yourself. It's exceedingly disingenuous in every sense of the word.

@poobah: I, of all people, have consistently said that we need to wait for the story to unfold. I am in no way not "let(ting) the investigators do their jobs" LOL! Stay tuned...

SuperDave said, "And why do some people immediately accept that Zimmerman is a racist, Trayvon was doing nothing wrong, and this tragic death is all Zimmerman's fault? While the rest of us point out some of the obvious holes in that thinking."

You are not pointing out some of the "obvious holes" in anyone's thinking. You have been representing hearsay and media soundbites as fact in your previous statements, despite your repeated disclaimers that you have no idea what happened. What you've been doing by overstretching tidbits of hearsay and media soundbites is no more ethical than what you are accusing others of doing by rushing to judgment on the other side of the argument. Quit being so disingenuous. If you are truly so concerned about people rushing to judgment then why don't you stand down with your own rhetoric and let the investigators do their jobs?

@fear: I will have to agree with Ezoner on the point he is trying to make to you. You are indeed being played. Like a fiddle my friend. And of course, you're not the only one. People are attending rallies, donating money, and most importantly voting Democrat, because this incident feeds into the template that this is a racist country at its core, and of course that racism is one-way (whites towards blacks). And it's all the fault of those rich, white Republicans. Whites are the ruling elites (nevermind that the highest office in the land is staffed by a black man). Whites have all the money (nevermind that many top-paid entertainers, athletes, and entrepreneurs are black). So, as we keep pointing out but others refuse to see, all that is required by the media and the race industry is that a victim is black, and the other party is not black. Bingoid - it's racism. If it's black on white, white on white, black on black - nobody cares. Why? Because there is no political payoff. What you are glaringly missing is that you are being used by the powers that be, to keep the stereotypes alive, keep doing the trendy thing (like wearing that hoodie!), and most importantly keep the Dems in office.
If it is at all possible, forget the politics for one minute. Ask yourself - what is it about this case that caused it to rise to national prominence? And why do some people immediately accept that Zimmerman is a racist, Trayvon was doing nothing wrong, and this tragic death is all Zimmerman's fault? While the rest of us point out some of the obvious holes in that thinking. And, again, what is the big picture here? Why did our president say "if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon". Why was this grossly inappropriate line written for him? Why?

Excellent post analert, right on point!

""WE DIDNT USE the black/white as the reference point."" who is we? The fox news repeater crew that you obviously belong to?
Just so we are clear, I do not ever feel the need to prove my independence to you or anyone. My views are mine, thats it, they are not spoonfed to me by talking points put forth by my "favorite" sources. Read , research, form an OPINION.

You all seem to forget that the publicity over this tragic event happened because two grieving parents wanted some answers and felt that they weren't getting them. I don't believe George Zimmerman set out to murder anyone that night but when you take on the responsibility of carrying a weapon, you take on the responsibilty of acting responsibly with it. He did not do that or the young man would not have been killed. I've always believed that with privileges( in this case carrying a gun) comes responsibilities. He does have the most culpability.

CORRECT vato! Thanks for pointing out the obvious! Ezoner just does NOT get it! Many spend far too much time watching TV. Whether its criticizing the media or lapping it up. Either way No one knows what happened that night but.... the man that is now on the run, and the dead kid. No matter what you believe about racism, etc, the media etc, the bigger issue is that GZ was not doing what he was supposed to and he shot a kid, because he pursued him. Against orders from the 911 operator, no matter how you would enjoy to play the facts vs Semantics game.

Fear -- WE DIDNT USE the black/white as the reference point. That was used by a network doctoring recordings, that was what is being used by groups with agendas, politicians. They are using people like you -- they are baiting you to do something, they are baiting others to do something, bad things. WE ARE ONLY RESPONDING, explaining so feeble minds get an understanding. I cannot believe -- you of all people -- with your so called independent view cannot see that.... you are being played --- or --- your one of the people playing others.

ezoner - you are truly incapable, get it? ignore and move on.
talk about being used, all you do on any thread is speak in repetetive talking points and generalities. Never in specifics. I have yet to see you express any opinion outside of the republican(fox) party talking points, EVER!! And you talk of others being used? Pot meet kettle!

Maybe for you its about race, and maybe in the end that is what we will remember about this. For me, its about someone playing cops and robbers, and it costing a young man his life. You see a black teenager, dead. I see a teenager, dead.
We will never get over racism in this country until we stop using labels in every other sentence. IMHO

Fear -- YOURE BEING USED>>>> get it?? Your like a dog chasing a bone.....

"Martin, who was black," "a growing outcry over possible racism on the part of Zimmerman," "Janesville City Councilman Sam Liebert, who is black...", "She believed his death was a result of profiling based on his appearance," "Heussner, who went to a mixed-race high school...", "“Janesville has never had an African-American police officer.”

It's not about race. Riiiiiggght.

It is shamelessly about race.

There are a thousand times more cases of blacks taking the law into their own hands at the expense of black victims, thousands of times times more wrongful black deaths. When is the vigil scheduled for them. That's right - NEVER!

The crocodile tears being shed by those claiming to care for the victims are belied by their demonstrated lack of true concern until it fits their political motives.

It is shameless!

""groups like BPP, Rainbow Coalition, CBC, Obama, you name it... This is all so dumb.""
What is dumb is your inclusion of Obama and leaving out the NRA. THAT is DUMB, and as usual, quaite partisan of you. Defines your view on this issue. Like it or not these are discussions that need to be had so TRAGEDIES like these can be avoided.
Leave race out, for a minute and just look at what happened. Can you? For someone that hates this topic you certainly have posted several times in a political nature, why? Just move on if you hate the topic Ezoner, why add to it? Ignore and move on. Some OBVIOUSLY many believe this to be an important topic.

Ezoner- I certainly do not want to bring their past into this. However being caught with marijuana, and domestic violence and resisting an officer with force are a far cry from one another.
With 2 incidences of violence charges this man should NOT be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. Of course bc you have access to legal help that got him out of a felony violence charge, that means you can still carry. This is primarily why I am in favor of a FAR more strict set of guidelines when it comes to CC, because GZ OBVIOUSLY has had some violence in his past and enough to disqualify him, IMO.

NoLeft- Its far worse than than what you are saying. This is race baiting, this is misdirection and manipulation of public opinion, this is misrepresentation of facts, this deflection..... There is no real issue here. GZ did what I would want and expect. Forget what Treyvon did or didnt do. Some are using the people, some are using the victim, some are using GZ, non of this dicussion is in the best interest of anyone except those commenting (not this board), groups like BPP, Rainbow Coalition, CBC, Obama, you name it... This is all so dumb. Just let it go. Lets think about the real problems facing us and this isnt one of them.

Not about "blacks", not about "guns", its about wrongful death. It about a police department mishandling an investigation so terribly that it has turned into what it should not have turned into, a race issue, a political issue. How many comments on this thread have stated that Zimmerman is a registered Democrat, like that is suposed to mean something? This is about a man taking the LAW into his own hands and not being punished for it. Lets be realistic here this would never have been investigated like this had this not been brought to the spotlight. This whole story has brought to light how sad this country is and how , no matter what some people are presented with, they will NEVER , EVER fall out of a certain line of thought.

I certainly thought this was racially motivated at first, and do not believe that race was no factor. HOWEVER, that being said this is more about Zimmerman playing vigil ante and escalating a situation he had no business escalating, now a young man is dead because of his lack of better judgement. THAT is the issue here. This young man should still be alive. No matter what happens legally here GZ will be living a life in fear for a very long time, and unfortunately right or wrong, it is of his own doing.

Thousands of murders of blacks by blacks happen every year. When is a vigil for those victims scheduled?

Oh, that's right, there never will be such a vigil because this is not about true concern for black victims: it's about racial divisiveness. It's shameless.

And lets go to the point that evemn if GZ was physically roughed up, its because he decided to take the law into his own hands. Had he followed instruction, he never would have confronted Martin.
Dave- do you know how GZ confronted Martin? Did he approach him with his firearm drawn? Do you have some inside sources that are irrefutable?

AGAIN, this NEVER happens if GZ does his job, listens and doesnt pursue, PERIOD. He chose not to, and now we have this. notice the word CHOSE, based in the word CHOICE.

""To my knowledge, slamming someone's head into the ground is indeed committing a crime""
There is ZERO proof that anything like that even happened! And to that point jumping to your conclusion, that it did happen, Trayvon was defending himself from a man pursuing him in the night with a firearm. Is he not entitled to self defense by your own definition?
I see that the head injury is still included in your talking points , yet in your "video evidence" the broken nose theory is now out the window because there is no evidence there of that claim now is there? You keep stating that Zimmerman was "attacked" with ZERO knowledge of what happened, jsut assumptions and selective witness accounts. Keep reaching Dave.

see dave I am not even a devout Christian, but I do not agree with warI believe it to be morally wrong. The same goes for Capital punishment, self-defense? Who was defending self? Taryvon? GZ? You certainly dont know, neither do I, it seems on a dark and stormy night as it was, only 2 people know who was defending self, and one is DEAD. I say it again, this could have been avoided by GZ following instruction and not pursuing. Following rules and not brandishing a firearm on watch. 2 strikes. Strike 3? Unnecessary death.
I do not see your exceptions in the bible to the ten commandments. Wondering what kind of Christian you are? Value ALL life, not just life YOU deem important. Capital punishment is morally wrong, I dont care how you slice it. Rvenge killing is a sin. Thats what it is. Of course reading the Bible the supposed "good book" I certainly can see why anyone would believe why Cap punishment is okay.
I happen to value all life. Killing in War is no more moral than what GZ did, or abortion. I believe in protecting all life not just life that some percieve to be precious. Are the hundreds of THOUSANDS of dead Iraqui and Afghani civillians dead in the streets okay because the USA got attacked on 9/11? This is the utimate in revenge killing, and frankly your little blurb on the Commandment "thou shalt not kill" is frankly sickening and disgusting.

@fear: You said: I am more concerned with the unjust shooting and death of a young man for "looking suspicious" to the eyes of one neighborhood watchman. NOT for commiting a crime, not for anything other than "looking" suspicious....<end quote>

Where in the world do you get this stuff? Talk about jumping to conclusions! To my knowledge, slamming someone's head into the ground is indeed committing a crime.

Raf- your plays on Semantics are cute but not in anyway factual. The didnt need him to follow means dont follow him. Your perception on the facts is not shocking, not at all.
You cannot refute that GZ acted out here. He followed this young man when he was instructed not to. You can use semantics to portray your version of the truth or continue to chastize the media to your great delight, but the facts are what they are. This was an unecessary shooting. This was a man unnecessarily pursuing another, when he had no authority to do so.
You can be condescending all you like, call anyone hypocrites that you like. All you seem to be concerned with is the medias sensationalism of this issue. If that is your beast of burden here, good for you. I am more concerned with a young man being killed unnecessarily by someone who had a weapon on neighborhood watch when he wasnt supposed to. There is a reason why they call it neighborhood WATCH. Not neighborhood police, or neighborhood pursue and detain. there are reasons there are rules against brandishing firearms on watch, because the people volunteering are not qualified to make life and death decisions with a gun.
But keep beating your media hating drum, it works for you. I am more concerned with the unjust shooting and death of a young man for "looking suspicious" to the eyes of one neighborhood watchman. NOT for commiting a crime, not for anything other than "looking" suspicious. Sad commentary on America that so many people have taken this subject so far away from what it is. Not about sensationalistic media(who is really shocked), not really about racism(not enough proof), not about gun rights. Its about the wrongful shooting of a young man by another young man who clearly was not following the rules of his neighborhood watch, be they carrying a fire arm, or following Trayvon martin. No matter what little games of semantics you want to play.

Even a cursory look at that particular commandmant acknowledges exceptions to "Thou shalt not kill" for time of war, capital punishment, and self-defense. Get real.

Ezoner, I guess you failed to notice that SuperDave, who has for the most part been in disagreement with Sarah on this incident, agreed with Sarah's comment about racism within the comments here. It seems that an apology to both of them is in order.

Fear if you want to dive into the past of GZ then you must do the same for Treyvon. Suspended from school for drugs. Past issues with authorities and at school. Dressed like a hoodlum. -- Thats the point. Then you have groups like the BPP making Terrorist claims. This was all ginned up by people trying to get into the media and stir up problems. To drive support for groups totally unassociated. YOU ARE BEING USED>>>>>>

And of course -- if people disagree, they are called racist. I havent seen one comment on this board thats racist. Just people stating percieved facts -- not actual facts. I would hope a GZ would continue to follow -- since when is the 911 operator who was certainly not present be the authority on what to do? Never. If you are there and in the moment and if my child were potentially in danger -- I would certainly hope the person would continue to follow.

Dave since you proclaim your faith so outwardly and claim to be a Christian man, may I ask you if you are aware of the Ten Commandments , the one that says "Thou shalt not kill"?
Are you aware of the teachings of Jesus that talks of turing the other cheek?
Maybe instead of saying "God Bless Sanford" you should say God Bless Trayvon Martin , may he rest in Peace and our thoughts and prayers are with his family.

Ezoner as usual you are flying off the handle about lieft wing blah blah blah. As usual RAF is criticizing the HOST of a show not being independent enough for him to read EYEWITNESS accounts of what they saw happen!!
WHat I am saying and will continue to say, eyewitnesses are giving conflicting stories. A video tape offers NO irrefutable evidence of injury or not. Yet Dave, Ezoner, RAF,etc... seem to still be hanging on media accounts being wrong, hosts not being what they percieve to be acceptable sources, racisim being a factor. You have to look at WHAT WE KNOW!! I have listened to the entire 911 tape, unedted, no one can refute that GZ was told NOT to follow TM. He disobeyed and followed anyway. This young man is dead because GZ thought TM looked suspicioous enough for him to disobey the 911 operator , to break the rules of neighborhood watch and pursue. GZ decided to be judge and jury and shoot a young man who HE PERCIEVED to be suspicious. GZ is not a trained officer of the law yet he used a firearm to kill TM , acting as if he were an officer. If GZ had followed the rules and listened to the operator TM would still be alive and GZ would not be one of the most hated figures in America. GZ has a violent past, he has domestic violence charges, and resisting an officer with force. All that being said the culpability is on Zimmerman, based on what we KNOW, not what we care to draw inferences on.

SuperDave:
The letter from Zimmerman's relative referenced in the Daily Caller article chastises numerous people for race baiting and then proceeds to race bait Holder himself. Gee, I can't imagine why Eric Holder wouldn't lower himself to dignify that garbage with a response. Perhaps there's already an ongoing investigation into the bounty, and Holder doesn't want to jeopardize that with a bunch of public statements. Let the people do their jobs. That's what the state attorney should have done when he over ruled the on scene detective the night Martin was shot. Zimmerman should have been charge per that detective's recommendation, and all this probably would not have happened. Now, with no grand jury involved, it looks as though charges will be filed anyway.

Clearly.

Racism is alive and well in the highest offices of our national government. Eric Holder refuses to do his job and arrest the Black Panthers responsible for the bounty on George Zimmerman. A Zimmerman family member fights back:
http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/09/zimmer...

Shots fired at a Sanford police car:
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Sanford...

Here's an example of the results of race-baiting. Racism is alive and well in Florida. Think about why these black people decided to beat a white man, even though George Zimmerman is a Hispanic Democrat - no white people were involved in the Sanford incident. Seriously, think about it - there is a reason.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/Gainesville...

Witness accounts will likely prove to be inconclusive and contradictory. This is one of the reasons for DNA and other forms of evidence. People see things differently, from different angles, lighting, shadows, etc....

Given there will be no hard evidence, I doubt that any trial would provide a conviction without additional evidence and that would require a video tape of the entire encounter.

So all people can do is speculate. In the end, I would hope that someone like GZ were looking out in my neighborhood. I would hope that if someone was acting strangely - my neighbors would take an interest. Call 911. Frm there -- if GZ is telling the truth, and he was approached and attacked, them he did what he needed to do to defend himself. Logically speaking, some -- if being followed may approach the person and confront them. This certainly could lead to the events described. I personally would likely confront the person if I were innocent and as young men, we all felt invincible. Although tragic, I see nothing to date that would bring a conviction.

What I do see is the BPP (Panther Party) as spouting terrorist rantings that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They are not willing to let the justice system work. I am very troubled by their comments and what this could lead to, but we cannot circumvent the justice system.

To those making a martyr out of the teen and saying that everything is Zimmerman's fault, and Martin was just minding his own business, therefore Zimmerman is a murderer and a racist (without waiting for all of the evidence): if it comes out that Zimmerman is not charged, and there are race riots with ensuing injuries and deaths, that predictable result is on your hands. Those that fan the flames of racial tensions bear the responsibility for what happens as a result of those tensions. May God bless Sanford FL.

From the April 2,1912 edition of the New York Times:
"Since Carter, the man he shot dead on 34th Street and 5th Avenue, was a negro, Plitt was at first not held. But he is now in custody."
Hmmm...The more things change, the more they stay the same?

Cenk Uygur and Anderson Cooper?

These guys both have been connected to the two networks with the worst record in reporting FACTS to date on this case; NBC and CNN. One network wrongly stated there was a racial slur on the 911 tape the other network purposely edited the tape to make it appear racial; both disgusting acts of media to drive ratings while not reporting truthfully.

fear stated "So please Dave try not to give your VERSION of what you think happened and portrayit as some kind of factual evidence, okay?" Then fear went on to do the same thing, "...We know that he was told to not pursue Trayvon Martin, an order he blatantly disobeyed. Taking the law into HIS own hands and becoming judge and jury for Trayvon Martin. THose are facts that no one can argue, everything else is sensationalistic presumptions of facts and what you as an individual choose to believe."
-
Wow! You accuse others of false information then in the same post you do the same thing...LOL. The word is hypocrisy.

During the 911 call that has been provided what you claim was never stated. The dispatcher did say they didn't need him to follow. Facts are a tough thing. He was never told don't follow, so there was no blatant disobeying as you have repeated over and over again.

Shall we act like we KNOW what happened? Or maybe lets stick with what we know to be true. make your personal judgement as you will, but the fcats that are irrefutable say that this could have been averted by Zimmerman doing his job and backing off.

heres one from "police sources" no names, just police sources:
As George Zimmerman's supporters work to stem the rising tide of public outrage aimed at the neighborhood watchman who shot and killed Florida teenager Trayvon Martin last month, a new picture of the victim—culled from the 17-year-old's Twitter account and witness testimony leaked from local law enforcement—has emerged.

"With a single punch," the Orlando Sentinel, citing police sources, reported Monday, "Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer ... climbed on top of [him] and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered."

"That is the account Zimmerman gave police," the paper said, "and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say."

Zimmerman's attorney, Craig Sonner, says that Zimmerman acted in self-defense and is not a racist as some have portrayed him.

Dave?

Speaking anonymously to Anderson Cooper by phone, the witness (whose voice is distorted but sounds like a man) says he observed the struggle between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin from a window. The distance of that window from the men was unspecified to protect the person's identity. The witness says that with a view impaired by darkness, he saw two men scuffling on grass and heard two cries for help.

"I couldn't see a lot of movement," he says. "It was very dark. But I felt like they were scuffling. And then I heard gun shots, which to me, were more like pops than like a bang." Cooper clarifies that indeed the witness means pops, plural.

Cooper also probes the eyewitness about the dynamics of the struggle, attempting to get at which man appeared to be on top during the fight, which would tend to suggest which man was the aggressor, or so the attorneys can argue.

"You believe the shooter was on top?" Cooper asks.

"I can't really say, because it was so dark. I'm just saying in your head, you're thinking, when you see now a couple seconds later, in the dark you see the person that's alive walk away, you know you obviously go, 'Okay, he must have got up. He walked away.' When the other person is laying there face down."

Mary Cutcher and Selma Lamilla tell Cenk Uygur that they do not believe that George Zimmerman killed Trayon Martin in self-defense. There eyewitness account is that Martin was lying on his stomach when Zimmerman stood over him and shot him. The women state they saw Zimmerman show no signs of a broken nose.

So Dave we DO NOT AGREE that Martin attacked Zimmerman, infact you cannot PROVE that Martin was not defending himself from attack by Zimmerman. You cannot even prove that he was injured. The video isnt conclusive at all one way or another. You can again assume what you want to believe that in no way makes your deduction of the scenario any version of actual fact.
Once again the only facts we know is that this could have been prevented had Zimmerman just done his job called the cops and stood down. He was in no way justified to follow Martin. Nor was in any way trained to make the decision that he was suspicious and make judgement to follow him OR detain him. The officers were on the way and at very most Trayvon gets away with a bag of skittles and Iced tea which he purchased.
Flat out Zimmerman needs to be arrested and charged with Manslaughter. He should be held accountable for the unnecessary death of Trayvon Martin. If he doesnt there will be far greater reprecussions not only in Florida but the USA. Like it or not this has become a race issue. This is one of the most racist countries on Earth and this story , like it or not will become larger than it ever had to be had this been handled properly by the authorities.

Justaskme- What "facts"? an alleged witness? There are witnesses that have come forth to say completely different things!!
Lets try for a second to not make theis leap that Dave wants to make and say that Zimmerman was attacked, as if it were some kind of proven fact, it is NOT! He and others are doing the exact same thing that they were chastizing the sensationalistic media for doing. They are making conclusions based on very little at all. There have been conflicting stories of witness accounts , so the he said, he said game wont work here.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_p...

Cutcher called 911. Zimmerman “gets off the body and is kind of pacing,” she remembers. “I see him take a couple of steps, and then he’s just sitting there, as if he’s thinking, ‘Oh my God, what have I done?’ ”

Mora, who’s also 31, takes me to the patio on Thursday afternoon to share what they could and couldn’t see. The homes in the Retreat are connected, with small front yards and bigger, shared backyards. The problem, on the night of Feb. 26, was that it was dark and raining.

So please Dave try not to give your VERSION of what you think happened and portrayit as some kind of factual evidence, okay?
What we KNOW with no equivocation is that Zimmerman did not perform his duty as neighborhood watch properly. We know he had a firearm when he was not supposed to. We know that he was told to not pursue Trayvon Martin, an order he blatantly disobeyed. Taking the law into HIS own hands and becoming judge and jury for Trayvon Martin. THose are facts that no one can argue, everything else is sensationalistic presumptions of facts and what you as an individual choose to believe.

Now that some time has passed since the shooting, it's finally become evident that Zimmerman was only defending himself. The facts sure make a lot of bloggers look silly.

Three more paragraphs of unsupported speculation from SuperDave peppered with disclaimers like, "I..do..not..know..what..happened..that...night," and "Some of these pesky items that have been reported may turn out to be incorrect later, upon full investigation," and "It *seems* that Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head into the ground."

And then, the disclaimer of all disclaimers, "As far as making reasonable inferences, yes a thinking person can do so based on whatever evidence is available, as long as that thinking person includes the caveat 'but we have to wait until all the evidence is in'."

"...but we have to wait until all the evidence is in." You mean everyone but SuperDave has to wait. You should heed your own advice and stop with the speculation. Let the investigators and courts, if needed, complete their work.

@poobah: You seem to be incapable of rational thought. Either that or you're just pulling my leg. Before I completely give up on you, I'll try to explain ..one..more...time. LOL!
There are reports that Zimmerman was screaming...no wait...first the disclaimer for you poobah. I..do..not..know..what..happened..that...night. All of my comments are based on what has been reported so far. Some of these pesky items that have been reported may turn out to be incorrect later, upon full investigation. But! Based on all of the stuff I have read, videos watched, etc. etc... It *seems* that Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head into the ground. Zimmerman reportedly said as much to the police. He also told that to family members. An eyewitness said that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and wailing away on him. There is audio of *someone* crying out in distress. In the enhanced police video, the open wounds on the back of his head are clearly visible. So...now stay with me poobah...it *seems* like Zimmerman was acting in...ready for it? Self-Defense.
As far as making reasonable inferences, yes a thinking person can do so based on whatever evidence is available, as long as that thinking person includes the caveat "but we have to wait until all the evidence is in". Many people are making a call on George Zimmerman (who - again - I am not holding entirely innocent in this death), without any evidence at all, other than the fact that Martin was an unarmed black male, Zimmerman is not black, and the pictures of Martin show him as a much younger child, and we know he had skittles (why this irrelevant detail keeps getting mentioned puzzles me). Ergo, Zimmerman is a racist, he profiled, he stalked, he murdered for no reason. (Ummmmm...based on what exactly?). So *please* don't even go there with who is assuming facts not in evidence. I am *not* holding a vigil for George Zimmerman. While my mind remains open to further info, I do not ignore or cast aside what info (however credible) is already out there. And I don't blame Zimmerman for defending himself, while I still want to know exactly what went down that night in FL.
Poobah, besides missing the boat on what *likely* happened in Sanford, you are entirely missing the big picture. On that note, I am done with you, please see my previous posts for more on that.

SuperDave said, "But, again, once Martin (as far as we reasonably know at this time poobah!) starting bashing him and he feared for his life, he pulled his weapon and fired."

With the limited amount of information we have been given, the public can not reasonably know that. You keep saying things like, "Again, I do not know what happened," and you then go on to speculate paragraph after paragraph, in quite certain terms, about what did happen, what would have happened if Martin had behaved differently, etc., etc. What kind of satisfaction are you getting, or need are you fulfilling, by speculating about what happened in this incident?

SuperDave said, "I'm not suggesting anything is fact. I'm looking at the evidence that we know about, and the comments that have been made, and drawing a reasonable inference. What is preventing you from doing so?"

When you said, "Seems like once he started slamming Zimmermans head on the ground, he kind of lost his victim status," you sure made it sound like a fact. You're not drawing a reasonable inference because you don't have access to all of the evidence and facts to do that. What is preventing me from doing what you have done? I have no desire to speculate about the incident. And I don't understand what interest you and others, besides those investigating the incident, have in trying to assign responsibility for the incident.

@poobah: I'm not suggesting anything is fact. I'm looking at the evidence that we know about, and the comments that have been made, and drawing a reasonable inference. What is preventing you from doing so? What would you do if someone was slamming your head into the ground and you had a gun on you? Seriously.
@Walter: Again, I do not know what happened. As I just said, the moments leading up to the physical altercation, and the start of the altercation itself, are critical. I would hope that. if they had any civil talk at all, it started with Zimmerman saying something like "excuse me sir, but I'm on neighborhood watch tonight and I just wanted to make sure you were doing alright". But I don't know how it started, only Zimmerman knows. And yes "kids" (this one one an adult-grown 17-year-old) are allowed to talk to strangers if they reasonably believe they are authority figures. Otherwise Martin should have walked away. Do you think Zimmerman had his gun on display? That makes no sense either. Your question to me is a straw man - Zimmerman was not some strange man, whether Martin ever saw him before or not. He was on watch. Somehow the situation got out of control, that's the crucial part we don't know yet. And once again, none of what I am saying means Zimmerman bears no blame for the situation happening in the first place, that remains to be seen. But, again, once Martin (as far as we reasonably know at this time poobah!) starting bashing him and he feared for his life, he pulled his weapon and fired. The result was tragic, but if his motivation was not to kill the teen, but simply to stop the assault, at least that makes some sense. Again, we do not know what happened, but it is clear to me that holding vigils for the teen is inappropriate.

Walter -- depends on teh circumstances. . In Treyvons case hell ya. Im headed to my house, and assuming he noticed the weapon, I would say that if Im not home in 5 minutes, my dad is gonna beat my butt..... I would want them to think dad isnt far away nor behind. Then if that doesnt work -- run like hell. Instead a confrontation -- again, not sure who started it, but I would never suggest a confrontation with a guy carrying a weapon of any type. But then again, my kids wouldnt be caught walking around with a hoodie either. Nor tats -- nor body piercings. If you want to be respected look like it. Im not saying a suit and tie, but dont look like a hoodlum unless you expect to be treated like one -- and that goes for the police asking questions. If you play the part and dress the part, you should expect to be talked to .

SuperDave said, "Seems like once he started slamming Zimmermans head on the ground..."

Are you suggesting, by way of statement, that is now an established fact? Last time I checked, judges and juries are triers of facts.

SuperDave:
Don't we teach kids to not talk to strangers? I'm pretty sure that goes for strangers with guns, too. How would you feel if some strange man came up to one of your kids while they were walking down the street and started asking questions. Who are you? What are you doing? Where are you going? Would you advise your child to offer up that information?

@poobah: Of course I use the terms black and white! I am pointing out the double standard that exists, I need to identify the races to make my point. In the Florida case, because the victim was black and unarmed, and even though the attacker was a Hispanic Democrat, he was described as "a white Hispanic" to fit the template that the US is still a racist society, but inexplicably of course only one-way. Zimmerman "profiled" Martin, and "stalked" him because he was wearing a hoodie, blah blah blah. Had Zimmerman himself been black, this would not have been a story. Many of us have posted examples of recent crimes that barely make the local news, but again, because the dead person turned out to be an unarmed black teen, and the shooter was not also black - shazam! It's racism! Let me be clear, I am not saying Zimmerman is not partly to blame for the entire incident, but why is Trayvon Martin a hero, or a martyr? Seems like once he started slamming Zimmermans head on the ground, he kind of lost his victim status. Unless it can be shown that Zimmerman physically provoked a fight, then Martin started it and he paid the ultimate price. Martin had the last clear chance to say something like "I'm just going to that house over there sir" and walk away. Mutual respect goes a long way.

SuperDave, you say, "I am *still* (sigh) waiting for my color-blind society envisioned by MLK," but yet your comment is full of references to black and white.

How about the gang of black youths in Baltimore who took advantage of an intoxicated young white man on St. Patrick's Day, beat him, stripped him naked, took his money, iPhone, credit cards, etc., the whole time laughing at the victim and filming the assault. They then posted it online, helping the police do their work. Had you even heard about that one? Now try to tell me with a straight face what would have happened if the victim was black and the attackers white. Why, it's racism of course! But as long as the attackers are black, it can't possibly be racism, can it? This double standard must end. I am *still* (sigh) waiting for my color-blind society envisioned by MLK.

We should all be outraged at the PREVENTABLE DEATHS of 21,000 children under the age of five EVERY SINGLE DAY throughout the world.

Sarah -- you are making a big assumption with no real evidence. You dont know that your statements are true. What I can say -- is no one seems to be overly concerned with the multiple deaths on the south side of Chicago on ST Pattys day. Personally -- I am more concerned about those incidents and what those families must think given that people are focuesed upon one case....

@janesvillean: You are correct. I was unaware of the NSA statement. I don't know for sure what happened that night, only Zimmerman does. It seems clear that he made some mistakes, including carrying a gun. Perhaps he ignored that rule because he feared for his own life in that neighborhood. And perhaps he was too aggressive in keeping an eye on, and perhaps "following" Martin. He certainly was not "stalking" him as so many claim. What we really don't know is what happened in the moments leading to the attack by Martin. Were words exchanged? Was Zimmerman respectful, or was he treating Martin as a criminal? Or did Martin just jump Zimmerman? Again - we don't know yet, the investigation continues. But - based on everything we do know, at the moment Zimmerman was getting his head bashed into the ground it seems reasonable that he would fear for his life. And a person with a gun who fears for his life will use it. How all this gets sorted out by the "system" remains to be seen. But - again - the larger picture here is that certain people, including Mr. Obama himself, have seen fit to make this into political issue, trying (lamely) to place blame on those wascally Wepublicans, despite the inconvenient truth that Zimmerman is a registered Democrat. And those that attend vigils and don hoodies in memory of Martin seem to not care to wait for the truth to come out.
The fact that Zimmerman made some mistakes, and some would say some major mistakes, doing his volunteer work as a watchman, does not automatically take Martin completely off the hook. I have also said this before, but will repeat here - likely both of them are partially to blame for the tragic result of Martin's death. To make a martyr out of Martin accomplishes nothing other than fanning the fire of racial division. If Martin had been a white boy, we never would have heard about this story.

Good information, janesvillean. That is the whole point, an untrained, self appointed "neighborhood watch captain" decides to ignore the police departments directive and follow (stalk) this kid who was doing absolutely nothing wrong.

He was provoking a confrontation by doing this. He got the confrontation and he shot the innocent kid dead. Neighborhood watchers are not supposed to be armed with firearms for this very reason. They are supposed to watch and call the police if there is "suspicious" behavior. Such as if you look out your window and see a strange vehicle in your neighbors driveway, with people loading household goods into it, perhaps take note of the details and call the police. Or at least have the details for future use if indeed a crime has been committed.

What astounds me is that there are people who defend this murderous behavior that this Zimmerman committed. This is indefensible, if there is no justice served, the consequences are on the shoulders of those who chose to allow this.

SuperDave is obviously unaware that the National Sheriffs Association took a dim view of Zimmermann's tactics. The Association is the umbrella organization for all neighborhood watch programs in the US.
.
"The alleged action of a “self-appointed neighborhood watchman” last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program,” stated NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.). “NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program.”
.
“The Neighborhood Watch Program fosters collaboration and cooperation with the community and local law enforcement by encouraging citizens to be aware of what is going on in their communities and contact law enforcement if they suspect something – NOT take the law in their own hands,” continued Executive Director Kennard. “The alleged participant ignored everything the Neighborhood Watch Program stands for and it resulted in a young man losing his life. Our thoughts and prayers are with the family of Trayvon Martin during this terrible time.”
http://www.sheriffs.org/content/nsa-stat...

I'll still wait for more info - but, "brandishing a firearm"? Really? You think he just walked up to Martin and said "check this out!"? I don't think so.

SuperDave,
No one should have died that night. That's the point. If you're going to be lurking around behind someone that you don't know for a fact is doing something wrong, you run the very real risk of catching a beat down from that person if they perceive YOU as a threat. If your own insecurities and lack of training result in someone's death, you must be held accountable. Neighborhood Watch's rules are clear. No guns. Call the police. Stay out of the way. I don't know for certain, but I doubt Zimmerman had the extensive threat assessment training that police officers go through. If the alleged attack by Martin was in any way, shape or form provoked by Zimmerman, he forfeits any claim of self defense. For him to be out brandishing a firearm while playing cops & robbers was irresponsible, perhaps criminally so.

@Walter - you're right, in that I don't have all the answers, Zimmerman is the only one who knows exactly what happened. But we do have a witness who saw Martin beating Zimmerman. We do have video showing some of Zimmerman's injuries. We do have other residents that heard exactly one shot. We also know that Martin had no injuries other than the GSW. All of this suggests to me that Martin didn't like the fact that Zimmerman was keeping an eye on him, and that he viciously attacked Zimmerman. Whether Zimmerman was "following" Martin at that point is unclear. From some accounts, Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle after having walked around to the front of the building to get an exact street address to give to the police dispatcher. He had apparently lost sight of Martin, and Martin got to Zimmerman before Zimmerman could get to his vehicle. Zimmerman was not "stalking" anyone. He was in his own neighborhood acting as a volunteer neighborhood watch captain. He was doing his job, in that he was "watching" Martin. By his own words, Martin was acting strangely. There had been recent break-ins. Why does anything that Zimmerman did surprise anyone? Seems like he was doing what he was supposed to be doing. He did make some mistakes, but should Zimmerman have been the one who died that night?

SuperDave: "From all accounts"? Really? Noone knows including you. Let's get that much straight. It's just as likely that Martin chose to stand his ground against a man stalking him with a gun. As far as I'm concerned this outcry should be over bad legislation resulting in bad laws.
And as far as deceptive editing in the media goes, let's realize that all media outlets are beholden to advertisers. Advertisers want viewers. Viewers are drawn in by salacious stories. The more controversy that can be raised, the more people will watch. News outlets no longer feel bound by complete accuracy. A lone editor edited this 911 tape. Most other outlets ran with the same edited tape. Ed Schultz has been involved with edited video of Rick Perry. Mitt Romney has edited video of Barack Obama. Fox New has edited video of CPAC conventions to smear Ron Paul. Andrew Breitbart was involved in edited video during the ACORN scandal. Fox News edited video of James Hoffa to imply that he was inciting violence. Dan Rather was involved with false documents regarding GW Bush. The list goes on and on. Fortunately, NBC acted swiftly with the firing when the actions of their editor came to light. In many cases, the outlet involved just makes a bunch of excuses and claims to reprimand the responsible person or people. All that being said, even after listening to the cleaned up tape, it's still possible that Zimmerman is uttering the racial slur that he was originally accused of saying. Again, though, that really doesn't matter here. The problem is the bad law and the bad police work (uninvolved state attorneys over ruling on the scene detectives) that was going to lead to a man being set free with a less than thorough (putting it mildly) investigation. As misdirected and racially motivated as all the excessive attention may be, it has brought attention to a case that was well on its way to being swept under the rug. In this case, I'd be more than willing to take the bad with the good if it gets the police any closer to finding out the truth. When an individual has taken another life, we can't just take the individual that took the life at their word. Of course, they're innocent until proven guilty, but there's no way to prove them guilty if the conversation with the shooter goes like this:
Police: Did you shoot that kid?
Shooter: Yep.
Police: Were you defending yourself?
Shooter: Yep.
Police: Good enough for us. Have a pleasant evening. Thank you so much for protecting our streets from those hoodlums hell bent on taking a walk to a convenience store to purchase snacks.
***
That's unacceptable. Even if Martin and Zimmerman both made bad decisions that night, Zimmerman must be held accountable for his. He's still alive. Martin paid the ultimate price for the bad decisions he made, if any.

@Sarah: "The hoodie was used as a way to visibly show support for the Martin family's cause". What cause? From all accounts, their son viciously attacked a neighborhood watch volunteer who happened to be armed and was able to defend himself. What cause?!?
@fear: "Instead he decided to take the laws into his own hands". Really?!? How so? By walking around his own neighborhood while talking to a police dispatcher on his cell phone? Martin attacked Zimmerman, let's get that much straight. Zimmerman acted in self-defense. Yes, he made mistakes, but that does not justify being jumped on by a teenage alleged drug dealer.
@Hkwnd: "It was perhaps prejudicial for Zimmerman to of used force agaisnst Martin". To defend himself while Martin was bashing Zimmerman's head against the ground?!? What are you talking about?!? Zimmerman was defending himself against an out-of-control angry young black man who was in the process of trying to kill him!!! What part of that do you not understnad? Prejudicial??? If someone is trying to kill me and I have the means, you can bet your sorry butt that I will be 100% "prejudicial" in defending myself. And I won't care a whit what color that person is! Get over the race thing people, it is really soooooo 1960s. And another thing - this case does not involve white people - at all. The victim (Zimmerman) is Hispanic. The attacker (Martin) was black. There was no "racism" involved, or any other "-ism" that the media, the race industry, or well-meaning but mis-informed liberals would like to see. And Zimmerman (the victim, who thankfully was armed) is a registered Democrat. End of story.

Sarah I agree that no media outlet is perfect, but the mistakes made in reporting this case by the media and others is astounding.

CNN falsely declared and led millions to believe there was a racial slur. Yes they back tracked, but not until the damage was done.

NBC edited an audio transcript to imply racial overtones when there was none. This spread like wildfire in print, audio, web, and on-air radio and TV broadcasts. Not a single person in the main stream media corrected or caught their version, they all ran with it. It was later identified by web bloggers and took days to be first slowly corrected and then investigated after reporting of the grievous error became public.

The saddest part of all this. These same media types are pointing to implied errors and poor decisions by the police department and local and state DA's, when they themselves have maligned and twisted the facts surrounding the incident.

On top of all this the lemmings that absorb the media as reported and don't use their own cognitive abilities to think for themselves have been LED by the nose to what the media already decided the narrative to be; regardless of all the facts.

Most of all though.It is too bad that these things accure.I hope we can all get a grip on it.

That might be a dumb comment I suppose,but it isn't any dumber than the rest of them.

It was perhaps prejudicial for Zimmerman to of used force agaisnst Martin.It was perhaps prejudicial for Marting to of attacked Zimmerman.But I can assure you that none of it was racism as defined by a money market of competion.Do you think?Do you think that racism is the factor that perhaps there was some form of competion that went array?If it were some form of competion that went array,then why is it refered to as racism.

One of the main issues here is that word racism.Why does the media insist on using that word racist.The proper word for this situation and all other situations like it are due to the word racist over the word Prejudicial.Pre-judgement.Judging before all the facts are in.Racism is competition....and we all know there are those that are dead set against any competition.
The main problem in our Nation is that there are far to many defenitions of words.And,we all know who are the ones distorting this topic in order to keep us all within their "Power".

Fear - I am in complete agreement with you when it comes to Zimmerman. He was completely wrong in what he did IMO. After the different investigative agencies are done investigating, hopefully we will have the facts and can make our own judgement. I just have a bone to pick with how the news services bypass many horrible stories that show a hate crime of black on white.

Sarah why are you giving kudos to the network? Not one person in that network objected or questioned the editing of the tape. They reacted after others caught the editing of the tape.

Rusty- What does that completely separate story have to do with anything?? Are you trying to point out that a young Black male committed a terrible crime in another instance? Was he carrying tea and skittles? Is it you who is the racist?

Taking the race out of this case, Zimmerman still should be culpable for this young man's death!! He pursued Martin when he was told to stand down! The entire situation could have been avoided if Zimmerman would just have followed instructions. Instead he decided to take the laws into his own hands. Now he should be held responsible. I am tired of all the political banter once again,as it is in every other issue. Zimmerman has a history of violence and its time for him to finally face the consequences. Poor judgement and violence are why this even happened in the first place.
Zimmerman had a run-in with police, the Florida native was arrested in Orlando in 2005 for "obstructing justice" and "resisting an officer with violence" during an alcohol-control arrest at a college bar. Zimmerman's actions resulted in a misdemeanor charge and court-ordered anger-management classes.
Sounds like a very level headed guy doesnt it? Wonder if the anger management worked? Hard to think it did , since he was brandishing a firearm on neighborhood watch(against the rules).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgR7gCxXQ...

In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.

Sarah - wouldn't it be nice if the US newspaper wires would have picked up on this, instead we have to go to a foreign press to see and read. Our news services, like the AP, conveniently skipped over this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...

Sounds like "cold" to me! @Sarah: I think that was the first time I ever looked at that site. What is offensive about it? I only read the one link that I posted.
Did you read my other link? As a liberal, how do you feel about the rush to judgement, and in fact the outright manufacture of fake "evidence" to support the apparently bogus claim that Zimmerman is a racist, was profiling Martin, etc.? I don't know if a crime was committed or not, but the evidence certainly suggests that Zimmerman acted in self-defense and Martin was the aggressor. At any rate I am open to more information, and letting the system sort out the details. I do not understand people donning hoodies in support of Martin when they simply do not know what happened. I have a liberal friend with a PhD who was quick to post a photo of himself wearing a hoodie. Why?!? The hoodie is just one detail of the story, and a minor one at that. To me, it seems that people just want to jump on whatever current politically correct bandwagon happens to be passing by, without first using their brains to ascertain the truth.

If this is the right link (?) It should be the new CNN enhanced tape.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...

Here's a thoughtful article on what is now being called "Editgate".
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/...

The original source was CNN. Google the following and take your pick of which site covered the story:
Zimmerman said "cold" not "coon"

SD, not sure if I would call that an unbiased source.

What I want to know, because you all have covered this well, is where is the intent to comitt murder for the black panther party. Last time i have heard about a bounty is in the old western days, and I thought it was illegal to do that. I thought this was a good definition a bit off the subject, Texas A&M has an annual contest calling for the most appropiate definition of a contemporary term. This year's term was political correctness. Here it is: " Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." Fantastic definiton!!!

SD, don't cloud the picture with real information; defeats the purpose.

I don't see that anyone has mentioned this article: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-enha...
It now appears that the entire "racial" element, that (other than conjecture from the media and the race industry) was based on one word from the audio tapes, has vanished. The word was not "coon", it was "cold". The weather in Sanford FL on the night of the shooting was indeed unseasonably cold. Go away Obama "Justice" Dept, you have no jurisdiction here.

totellthetruth,
That's a nice little talking point and all, but do you care to address my questions?

Point -- You are right and thank you --- Thats the point I have been trying to make. What I see is some people that want to convict without even thinking about what they are saying and in teh process -- we could be talking about the bigger picture. What I find is many far left -- have very narrow lines of vision, and are unable to see the big picture. They are so clouded by ideology for a specific point they want to make that they refuse to open their minds to what can make a real impact, a positive out of this event. They use accusations, false or exagerated information, parse words, and excerpts from information in their eagerness to make a point based upon their own biases.

Wow, the speculation here by both sides of the issue is rampant here. I see so much hate. You are right Dwight, there is a lot of information that has yet to see the light of day. For my 2 cents, I am not sure it would have made any difference to GZ if the victim had been white, purple, yellow or green. Everybody is so quick to yell about racism or stereotyping in this country. I think we had a nut with a gun in a state with a poorly written self defense law which was poorly interpreted by the police. In most states,I believe GZ would have lost his right to self defense when he continued to follow the victim, especially after being told "we don't need you to do that." GZ was looking for an altercation and got it. Trevor may actually have had the right to call self defense because this individual was obviously following him. Hopefully as this case evolves we will find the truth without all of speculation.

Again people, let the justice system work. They have a LOT of facts that we don't.

Ezoner, so the vigilante stated on his phone call that the pedestrian was on drugs and acting strangely? This vigilante being the untrained, wannabe cop who has a history of domestic violence, and a history of calling the police on blacks. Because he is the last word on human behavior and criminology, and he said this, so that is good enough for you.

It is good that there are these experts like you and Zimmerman to profile these negroes and stalk them and shoot them dead, isn't it? Otherwise the kid could very well have made it a bit further to the home he was staying at and got inside and ate his skittles and soft drink. THE HORROR

Shopiere 0--- your the bling bat with no ears... listen to the tape --- the whole tape not the lame news. GZ said he was acting stragely, like he was on drugs. Mind you -- at that time GZ had no information about the drug suspension. So you need to listen. Again --- people want to make this into something it may not be, while distracting from the real issues. Get a clue and quit falling for the distractions. Once you eliminate the emotional part and really read what happened..... GZ returned to his vehicle and was confronted. We dont really know what happened from there as accounts are inconsistent. I can see this becoming a Tawanna Brawley case -- real easy. But people want to jump before asking.

The real issue is why does the stereotype exist? Its because of the element of guilt by numbers and association. Go thump your drum somewhere else. Until I hear otherwise -- this is a simple -- he could have approached GZ and likely diffused the entire encounter.

You are wrong Ezoner. SarahB1 corrected you. I will do a little more.

You are making things up, no one said he was acting strangely, was on drugs, or appeared to be.

He was told that it was unnecessary to follow the kid by the police dispatcher. He ignored this. This is what caused the shooting and killing of the kid.

He HAD EVERY RIGHT IN THE WORLD TO BE WHERE HE WAS, you are making things up.

If you truly cannot read the news articles and get the sequence of events right, have someone help you read it and get some comprehension.

It is totally relevant, you are wrong again. This is what caused the wrongful death of an innocent victim by a vigilante.

Sarah -- its really irrelevant.... Trayvon was could have simply turned around said hello -- explained what he was doing and all would have been fine. The only witch hunt I see here is from those with nothing to gain but political agendas.

In the end -- nobody wants to address the real issues, which are related to the high rate of crime by specific ethnic groups. These issues are not being properly addressed if they are at all.

Shopiere-- Zimmerman - lived in a gated community. As I understand (Correct me if Im wrong) the young man in FL actually had no right to be in the gated community. Also -- there was no profiling. Although I dont feel profiling is wrong, in this case, Zimmerman supposedly had seen a man acting strangely, that he was unfamilir with. He followed him to see where he went and how he was acting. He appeared to be on drugs or was acting strangely. When asked to describe the man -- he did so. When asked to stop following the man -- he did so. So where is the problem here? The media, the president, the people jumpimg to conclusions to distract from the real issues.

"There is, in Florida and in many states now similar laws, protecting George Zimmermann or the Slinger homeowner who shot Bo Morrison."- janesvillean @ 1:52pm on 4-3

I think that these are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT laws that were applied and vastly different circumstances.

The homeowner in Slinger shot someone who had illegally entered his house in the middle of the night and lurked and hid. He had to assume the intruder was up to no good, he shot him in fear for his own life. The intruder HAD ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to be in this man's house.

The kid in Florida was walking down the street, he was profiled, stalked, (actually hunted), and when he reacted to these egregious affronts to his rights, he was shot dead by a vigilante. This kid HAD EVERY RIGHT IN THE WORLD to be walking down the street after an innocent visit to the convenience store for candy and soft drinks.

People's rights to walk down the street unmolested have to be defended at all costs. People's rights to live in their home and defend themselves from intruders have to be defended at all costs.

These two incidents are not related in any way, theoretically or anything else. Grouping them together will tend to confuse both issues and do a disservice to law abiding citizens who expect to live in their homes unmolested.

Ezoner, people lie but nobody dies. People make mistakes all the time, but when that mistake kills a person, it must be investigated and justice must prevail. Protest Spike Lee and the Black Panthers. For what? For being as angry as you are? We can talk about race and solving some of society's problems, but I'm not going to call those protesters or those problem solvers racists simply because they are dealing with a racial problem. I suppose it's classwar to talk about class war. Let's get this problem of justice taken care of for two human beings before we go off on tangents about solving all of humanity's problems.

You see here is the Problem with the patriot theory of one side or the other.
There is(for all practical pruposes)at least one inept individual in all races.It is a reality that has occured for much further back than the usuall 4024 years ago or so that minds just can not seem to comprehend.It is at this very time a topic of National health care debate that the left so much admires them-selves for in grasping something besides the usual pay your way.It is something that right admires for what I have no clue.Perhaps for letting the left run it and giving them all the bail outs,I have no idea.
In fact,people like me are completly ignored in these topics because the rest of you theatrical morons have abslolutley nothing better to do in life than to blame the other as though you have the rest of us locked up in the better of the two dumb dumbs.The thing is that you are equally dumb.Not one dumber than the other.Then when someone comes on here and says the things that I do,you think that you can chime together like you are going to send the linch squad out and get rid of them.
Good luck.Not only do you loath the other side but you also loath your own party.Whats even more,is that you loath your-selves more than anybody could possibly loath you.You people are by that,an extreemly dangerous community.To your-selves.Not anyone else.All you can do is come on to this forum and play patriot and blame the other side.I'v got news for you.You are the other side.The other side of reality that is.Your view to us is that of a jeliousy tacktic of any deprived individual.Ours to you is the reality of what causes these problems and even somewhat of an attempt to deal with things rationally.
What an embarassment you people are to this Nation carring on the way you do.
Then,you have the complete oudasity to raise your heads up and walse around the world pointing your fingers at other Nations for their atrocities.Have you not heard of a work ethic?The one that says do your job and not ask others to do it for you?Well of course you haven't because you are the ones that worked so hard and long learning how to pronounce the word that you simply feel(not simply think nor simply know)you simply feel that the equation of such long hard and tedius work thus puts you at some form of higher education and pay scale.Why,because you are more educated than the rest?No,because you are sure that the system owes you for allowing you to be educated in such a ludicrous fashion.

Youkill -- Look -- how about a protest to end the violent - abusive nature of the Black Panther Party -- that vigil / protest I would join. How about a protest of Spike Lees release of an incorrect address and contact information and the fact that a family that had no relationship to the incident was threatened and hounded by the media.

The fact of the matter is we must have watches because of the societal problems and instead of discussing the real issues given a perfect opportunity to shed light -- we have back seat lawyers convicting before having any details, only specific leaked information. And why was the information leaked? Why did it take a month to pick up the story? Why is the storyline what it is? Maybe there is an agenda?

Oh -- you cant talk about that -- then your racist. I am sick and tired of the bull, and lets talk about fixes and the cause of the problem -- not the result.

None of you can argue facts, so you bring racisism and emotion to the case. Juan Williams makes a great arguement, with facts and yet everyone of you is arguing with anger. I am not on a soapbox - seems to me you are judging before knowing all of the facts. And if there is racisism in this country - it is from the other side. It is so much easier to protest and have a popular opinion than it is to be factual and look at things logically.
Janesvillean: you said that there are already plenty of people working on these issues. Really? Who? Because quite honestly, these issues have not been resolved. If you're gonna tell me that the democrats in office are working to fix the issues, then you're sorely mistaken. Blacks are worse off under Obama than they were under Bush. Facts speak for themselves. Do some research.
Also: as for What do I think Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are doing? I'm not sure yet. In my 20 years of being an adult - I have yet to see where they have united ALL Americans. They only divide us.
And if you actually read the article I posted, you will see that Jesse Jackson was quoted as being afraid in his own streets. They bring nothing but division. And you know it.

I saw Williams make his remarks on Fox and he continues to disappoint me with his shallowness. How those guys become commentors is beyond me. In some ways and as cruel as it may sound, people are not protesting the murder. It's done, it happened and they can never reverse that moment. It is what it is. They are protesting the failure to investigate and the low regard paid to the victim. They want justice and that they have to protest, pound drums and make a stink to get it should raise everyone's awareness. Something is obviously wrong here. Protesting or finding solutions to black-on-black violence or any violence is an entirely different subject. We've got everyday to solve societies shortcomings and if you are aware of those ills, it's time to join the protests.

Janesvillian -- You are abosolutely WRONG... The distraction is the attention to this case. You need to come at it from the opposite direction. If not for the crime rate bred by drugs and other social issues, you would not require such laws, nor would such laws create the environment for this type of event. People that want to absolve society for its shortcommings in identification and solutions to problems are the issue.

BunBun, when referring to deceased individuals, generally all stylebooks prefer the past tense.
.
maggiemae (and anyone else, including Juan Williams, who resorts to this distraction): There are already countless thousands of people who work on those problems, already countless millions put toward solving them. We can't march and expect drug abuse to vanish (perhaps if we had a sensible national drug policy ... but then again, we have people working for that). We can't expect crime to vanish. We can, however, be angry as a society when there are laws put into place to specifically PRE-ABSOLVE vigilantes like Zimmmermann and block even consideration of criminal charges unless high bars are met. As far as I know, there is no law out there preventing the prosecution of murderers, armed robbers, rapists, or drug dealers. There is, in Florida and in many states now similar laws, protecting George Zimmermann or the Slinger homeowner who shot Bo Morrison. These laws are a valid reason for activism. We can ask the legislature to change them. We can ask the prosecutors to enforce the existing laws. We can make sure that people who take the law into their own hands are not protected from its consequences.
.
Still, the real reason people like Juan Williams bring this up is distraction. They want to prevent change. They want the electorate to move on to another topic. They want a debate they can control. Sorry, I will not be distracted.

"Martin, who was black, reportedly was wearing a hooded sweatshirt at the time."

Was?....so after a person is shot, they change race?

Maggiemae,
Perhaps you'd be better served by following your own advice. You demand that people get off their soapbox and actually try to make a difference or change in America. Isn't that exactly what Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Sam Liebert are doing? Just because you don't like their message or the change that they are attempting to bring about, doesn't mean they're not trying to do exactly as you have commanded.

totellthetruth,
How EXACTLY is Liebert taking away someone's constitutional rights? Also, who EXACTLY is he taking right(s) away from? And I certainly can't overlook the fact that you stated "Everyone should be offended by this." That statement is pure lunacy. Just because you WANT everyone to be offended by it, doesn't mean everyone SHOULD be offended by it. That shouldn't be so complicated for you. After all, you did state that you believe in equality for everyone, didn't you? Doesn't equality also include the right to a different opinion? Why would studying the constitution suddenly make a vigil offensive?

I will not defend what George Zimmerman did. Nor will I judge him. That's for the courts to decide based on facts and not sensationalism from the media.

In the words of Juan Williams (all you lib's should love/read this), "But what about all the other young black murder victims? Nationally, nearly half of all murder victims are black. And the overwhelming majority of those black people are killed by other black people. Where is the march for them?

Where is the march against the drug dealers who prey on young black people? Where is the march against bad schools, with their 50% dropout rate for black teenaged boys? Those failed schools are certainly guilty of creating the shameful 40% unemployment rate for black teens."

Read his article. It's a good one. And for once, I completely agree with him. Now - get off your soap box and actually try to make a difference/change in America. Educate yourself about the real issues. Hypocrisy doesn't look good on anyone.

<http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...>

Sorry Koch -- if you think thats a talking point -- havent had time to watch TV or listen to radio -- so thats not where I get it from. I lived in a town with a bad rep. How did we change the rep -- we changed the town.... made it better. The rep changed -- the stereotype changed. Thats just logical and these people in the news -- I am certain are just drumming up noise to get ratings. You think they care about either person/family? NOT.

This kid was fighting for his life!!!! Of course he went for the guys gun. He was going to shoot him. Anyone would have gone after this nutbags gun. Domestic violence and an altercation with Police. How in the he** did this guy have a gun anyway!!

ToTell is just a troll spewing idiotic garbage any chance it gets. Easy to see what he tries to do. You arnet going to clarify anyone who is that misguided. Its opinion is spoonfed by a number of TV/Radio shows and certain "news" sources. That type of brainwashing is typical of people making comments like it's.

FBI Questions People In Trayvon Martin Case, Begins 'Parallel Investigation'
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/0...

totellthetruth,
People have every right to organize and/or attend vigils for any cause they choose. Who are you to decide what is or isn't deeply important to someone? You sound incredibly judgemental. In my experience, only ignorant people are so outwardly judgemental of others who are clearly expressing their Constitutional rights. It's usually because they are actually fearful of what they do not understand.

If Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc. want to voice their opinion and bring attention to a situation that they feel is unjust, they have every right to. Anyone heard of the 1st amendement? This case was going to get swept under the rug without fully investigating it. Just look at all the new evidence that has come out because of the spotlight being forced on it. This would have not happened if the case was closed and forgotten. Unfortunately, all cases like this can not receive the attention, but by getting a lot of coverage for one case, police departments nationwide will (hopefully) take some time to evaluate their protocols so similar mistakes are not made by their personnel. It's unfair to throw mud at Jackson or Sharpton for focusing on something they feel passionate about. If all you big talkers feel so passionately about those other cases do the work to bring more attention to them.

Just ask is correct Koch -- look at the issue.... We have pne person shot???? All kinds of attention ... massive amounts ... There were 29 people killed in Chicago on ST Pattys day..... Where is the outrage there??? My point is -- this is really what should be on the news... but Jesse etal.. cant get any mileage on that story, so they focus on something a month old, because they can make noise while the real problems are distracted from and not solved.

Make the linkages -- if you stop the problems or reduce the occurence of sterotypes based upon ethnicity or tied linked to ethnicity by frequency, then the liklihood of the FL event ever occuring is reduced significantly and maybe even eliminated. Because stereotypes based upon ethnicity, clothing, actions, music, all go away. But if we talk about the frequency in regards to ethnicity -- ohh thats racist.... Well then how do you solve it when the frequency of crime has an ethnic base more likely to be involved. The root cause is what needs to be addressed, but you cant even get to the topic.

Thanks for the link Koch. If this would have been 2 white guys, the story (on page 7) would say that one guy was shot when he attacked a neighborhood watch volunteer - end of story. This is beign blown out of proportion only because Trayvon was black, and the black racists (Jesse included) want to make trouble whenever possible.

Do you relate to the theory that a hoodie is the cause of such delusional thinking?That if not for the hoodie there wouldn't be such problems?What,the hoodie has been here for thousands of years long before any other garment?
What if we were to apply that kind of thinking to just because he had 10 fingers and ten toes?If that doesn't work,whey would hoodie?
Sounds to me like some one needs to loosen their neck tie a little.

I thought world War two was over.Evidently Not.Evidently Hitlers presance is more predominent than we are led to believe.Permision grante to remove your fingers and toes free money grabers.

Ezoner said, "Poo -- you referred to yourself as wearing the hoodie -- not me."

That is a lie. There is no comment of mine where I even remotely referred to myself as wearing a hoodie. You're shameless in, now twice, misrepresenting and/or fabricating what I said.

-PIGS-
It is the same story as it were before C.C..It involves the same police,the same comunity leaders,the same shoulder rubbing and back sctratching and particularally the same cycle of violance and ignorance.

It(reality)is due to the evolution of the earth harsh realities to the point that such religious fanatics of all walks including the Dems is that the constiturunts refuse to loose "Power" of this equation of National Health Care to the Professionals of National Health Care.The AMA.The AMA IS BY FAR more conected to the rest of the world than Political violance of Power strugle.If one were to debate the Powers of Education(which the constiturunts of the this monoply of ignorance that you people continue to play(more than likely due to just the very cause that I mentioned).
Hence,since it is an equation of "higher education that apparantly becomes the intillect that the political leaders find them-selves at odds regarding the voting public,it clearly becomes the basic foundations,and here again that one can not seem to stress enough,of the importance of simplicity.The very basis of education.
Yet,you PIGs of this moronic cycle of stupidity continue to latch on to the perversion of a few to boost your euphoria of intillect by comparing your-selves to them.

The religious interpretations of both sides are exactly the same.You are that of evolutionarly inept strugling for a power the mentally ill and safe guards you against the very wrongs of guilty before being prooven inocent.

The criminal mind by defenition of politics obviously is not the same as it is in the medical community in that oviously,the criminal mind is a mental illness that can not form any rational as to the entire economical whole.If they could,why would they be called criminals.

Poo -- you referred to yourself as wearing the hoodie -- not me. If you look like a hoodlum, act like one, treat others like you are one... its the old saying acts like duck, walks like a duck, its a duck.

Want I would like to see is people talking about the real issue.....

Who commits most of the crime?
Who are most of the victims?
What can be done to change the direction/alter that coarse?
What are the root drivers behind it?

For the 1st 2 questions, we all know the answer... so lets get to the what can be done. If we can solve those 2 questions, this incident would have never happened. Until we openly discuss the real problems, we are all wasting our time.

Ezoner, it's fine if you want to say, "This case means nothing and is a waste of time and effort for the general public." But that does not give you the right to deliberately misrepresent what I said and it does not distract from the fact that you still haven't found the integrity and intellectual honesty to apologize for it.

The most telling racist comment here IMO --

TTTT wrote, "The person who organized this is the most racist of all. Liebert has no evidence in this case and he has organized a Vigil to eulogize a potential criminal? Mr. Libert this was an uncalled for attempt to cause racial division in our community and the counsel should publicly reprimand you for your lack of ethics. Are you really about trying to create a racial issue here in Janesville?"

For some, Liebert creates a racial issue just by showing up.

Poo -- you still dont get it.... This case means nothing and is a waste of time and effort for the general public. The only racism I see is coming from the people screaming about it....

Lets talk facts if you really want to... but right now you arent interested in reality only this hype of a story.

I don't fear Poobah--but I am aware of my environment.
We could go back and forth all day with this banter but the point I was trying to make, that you are not picking up, is that it does matter what people wear and how you should react in a particular situation or environment. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. It does not matter what color my skin is but it could mean everything about how I carry myself and what I am wearing. You say you are blind to what someone is wearing and I say in certain situations you better pay attention to someone's appearance

@frusion- I don't know if you've been to Milwaukee lately but I was just there on 27th and North Avenue. I was amazed at the turn around of a formerly dilapidated community. I felt very safe, had lunch at a great restaurant, and didn't feel the least bit intimidated- but... I wasn't there looking for a problem either.

frusion, it would be more worthwhile if you could overcome your fear.

Ezoner very disingenuously said, "Poo --you are truely amazing --- its now racism if you wear a hoodie???"

Ezoner, this incident did NOT occur in Janesville. I was talking about racism in Janesville in reaction to the incident that was illuminated by the comments in this article. In NO WAY did I EVER suggest that Martin, or anyone else, wearing a hoodie was an act of racism. You may feel free to apologize for your deliberate misrepresentation of what I said.

Poobah, It would be interesting to see you visit 27th Street in Milwaukee and then see what your comments toward appearance would be. Yes, you are lucky to live in Janesville.

Ezoner very disingenuously said, "Poo -- you are truely amazing --- its now racism if you wear a hoodie???"

You should be ashamed of yourself for deliberately misrepresenting what I said. I have NEVER suggested what you just attributed to me. In fact, I have argued the EXACT OPPOSITE.

Have you no shame?

Poo -- you are truely amazing --- its now racism if you wear a hoodie??? Cmon -- you really need to get a clue. If you want to dress like a hoodlum -- you should expect to be treated as one. We have no pride in our appearance anymore.

My statements would apply to you specifically or to your comments... You refused to address the main issue. That the vigil is foolishness. This one incident is NOT a problem overall. Its a missdirection from the REAL issues of today.

Ezoner said, "Oh and Poo -- you should be thankful you live in Janesville. Because if you lived in a large city you had better pay attention to what you wear."

The question asked of me was not about what I wore but if I paid attention to what others wore. After seeing the racist side of Janesville illuminated by the comments on this article, I would be much more thankful for living in Janesville if people overcame the fear and ignorance that breeds racism.

frusion said, "I was just checking you on that."

That sounds kind of creepy. Are you on neighborhood watch now, checking me out?

I get out plenty Poobah. I don't know why you would assume otherwise? You are consistent with your claim to not reference what someone is wearing. I was just checking you on that. I think it is you that leads a sheltered life.

MissScarlet said, "It's not easy beign a volunteer on neighborhood watch, but their services are much appreciated - we all sleep better at night."

I'm sure the residents of the gated community that heard the gunshot and saw 17 year old Martin lying dead haven't slept better since that night, knowing that a wannabe cop shot and killed the son of a resident's boyfriend. Since when is being on neighborhood watch not an easy job? Many people do it from the comfort of their homes and act accordingly when they see something suspicious...they call the police!

That's right. Concealed carry will empower our state's neighborhood watchers to bring some law and order around here - watch out gang members and hoodlems - justice is just around the corner.

You can really tell when people are sheep and unable to think logicaly for themselves. This is a prime example. Dont get me wrong, its to bad that man died.... but where is the outcry to inner city residents about the number of killings weekly. The gangs killings, etc.. Most of the killing of African AMericans is BY African Americans, yet we shine a light on this specific incident. The real problems, big ones, go unaddressed, almost unnoticed.

Oh and Poo -- you should be thankful you live in Janesville. Because if you lived in a large city you had better pay attention to what you wear. Some clothing styles, colors, etc... are used as gang identifiers. If you were to wear specific items, you may have a big problem.

What I am saying is the real outcry, the real concern we should have is -- what can be done to stop obvious murders, gang killings, drug killings. Unfortunately -- even if Zimmerman is at fault -- this is a very singular -- issolated incident in the big picture.

George Zimmerman did what he had to do to protect his own life. It's not easy beign a volunteer on neighborhood watch, but their services are much appreciated - we all sleep better at night. Concealed carry finally adds some teeth to Wisconsin's watch groups. I expect a lot more cases like this of this will pop-up around our state.

frusion, I walk a few miles each day, infrequently after dark, but surely around the time this incident took place prior to sunset. I usually have my MP3 player playing music and ear buds in, but I always nod or wave to everyone I pass. I don't think twice about the clothing people are wearing, but its quite an assortment. Maybe you need to get out more often.

Just wanted to point out to the ones that are anti-gun... Chicago has the strictest handgun laws in the nation, yet 10 people were killed in a 24 hour period on St PAttys day, all Latino or Black. (Damn everyone wants to be Irish now) One of them was a 10 year old girl who *dared* sit a porch with her momma at 3 PM in the afternoon.
It's the strictest state when it comes to gun lawas yet somehow there is no shortage of criminals that can get guns apparently. Are these the untrained people that the anti-guns people are referring to?

916,
That all depends on Zimmerman's actions. Perhaps he pulled the gun and Martin decided to defend himself by attempting to disarm Zimmerman. You're right about the better move for Martin being to go into the home, but sometimes the best decisions aren't made. The best decision for Zimmerman would have been to listen to the 911 dispatcher who told him the police didn't need him to follow Martin. He chose to ignore that. Bad decisions by all parties led to a death. The survivor must be held accountable for his. That is why a full investigation is necessary, and it was wrong for the state attorney to let Zimmerman walk.

916- As I actually have another life, I wasn't on here to see your answer, so once again I defer to your vast law knowledge, I ask again what law covers this? " .Zimmerman had every right to follow this guy and ask him what he was up to". If zimmerman continued to pursue him it seems to me under this law, it could be be a construed as a threat.

Poobah- if you were by yourself on a dark street and you saw someone dressed in baggy, sagged pants and a large hoody would you avoid contact or would you initiate contact just to say hello?

Wally......I don't think anyone here is claiming that Martin didn't have the right to confront Zimmerman as to why he was following him. Although in hindsight possibly walking into his father's girlfriends house and simply calling 911 would have been the smarter decision. What Martin didn't have a right to do was punch the guy in the face and slam his head into the ground.......this little detail makes all the difference in the world when looking at this case--don't you think?

Sarah, just google "witnesses" and "Zimmerman" and you'll get thousands of hits.
To make things less complicated for you, the attached link came up on the top of the list....
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/4...

The attached article also made clear that the weight difference between the two was far from "100 pounds plus" that you have claimed in an earlier post. It was more like 10 pounds. Not that you were deliberately trying to mislead anyone.....You just simply bought into the much of the slanted media hype surrounding the case......

totellthetruth, here in the United States, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I do not know from what jurisdiction you are posting, so it is possible you are confused on this point. Should you have any other questions about the American legal system, I will be happy to answer them for you.

If a minor teenage male goes out to the local convenience store for a snack while visiting a parent and during his return trip from the store a strange adult male begins suspiciously lurking around behind him, you better believe that I stand behind that teenager's right to face his stalker and defend himself if he feels threatened. This scenario is as likely as any, and with new evidence mounting (the police station video of Zimmerman [any medical personnel would have bandaged even minor wounds] and voice experts determining that the calls for help are not from Zimmerman) it seems like an absolutely huge blunder on the part of the state attorney that over ruled the local detective's recommendation for Zimmerman's arrest in this case. Innocent until proven guilty, but it was probably very irresponsible to have let him go in the first place and even more so to still not have arrested him at this point.

Motorman......"Gun nuts gotta love em. Let them have what they want and they promptly show what a bad idea it really is. We need fewer guns in the hands of untrained people not more."
Bad idea?? If the situation played out as Zimmerman and the eye witnesses said it did, and you have a guy punching you in the face and slamming your head into the ground, possession of a firearm would be the furthest thing from a bad idea..........

Initially posted on similar story but those comments appeared to have died down. Thought more of a discussion would result from posting them here. I apologize if they don't completely fit in to the current discussion.
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Many of hte comments are digusting however, if you want true racism and true hate speech just check out the comments on Fox News . com. I guarantee there are few places that allow the blatant hatred that fox ignores. Heck, half of the usernames wouldn't be allowed in the comment section of most sites.
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I believe, after watching the coverage fairly closely both sides have behaved inappropriately.
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My biggest problem with this case is the FACT that an officer involved shooting would have led to more scrutiny than Zimmerman endured. To me, the true racism lies in the reaction to Zimmerman by the police. I hope I am wrong, but I like many, strongly believe that if Trayvon had been a young white males shot and killed while unarmed by a 28 year old black male the reaction by the police would have been entirley different.
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In addition, if not arrested and a national story the narrative would have also been different on both sides making it even more distrubing.
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Sad, that in 2012, our reality isn't different.

@vato and Walter- Thankyou. You have restored my faith in humanity by presenting logical posts.

I can see who the Ptriots are here.Suddenly, they are concerned with the Law and Order of things.They must have been busy in their political careers to of been concerned with this sooner.

Here's what I've gathered from the comments thus far:
Many people believe that if you dress a certain way or are of a certain height or build, you shouldn't be surprised if someone shoots you. Many of those people also believe that anyone has the right to follow and question any other person that they choose. While that may be correct, the person that is being followed and questioned has every right to not answer that question. That person also has the right to feel threatened if they realize that the person following and questioning them intends to do them harm. Just because YOU believe someone is up to no good does not mean they actually are up to no good. If you follow them and question them based on your own assumptions and then you get thrown a beat down, you have no one to blame but yourself. If you bring a gun into the scenario and you end up killing someone, you deserve to be fully investigated. The reason for the outcry in this case is because there wasn't a full investigation until people started bringing attention to the case. The continued outcry is to make sure that the attention stays on the case. Hopefully, all the bad press will make police departments nationwide handle these cases more carefully. Also, before the next person brings up some other murder (and combination of the blank-on-blank crimes), please look into the case you're about to cite and see if an arrest has been made. The reason this case has been turned into such a big deal is because this whole thing was going to be swept under the rug after little more than an abbreviated investigation. It was just in the past day or so that voice experts have found that it was NOT George Zimmerman calling for help on the recorded calls. How can this investigation have been originally wrapped up so quickly if new evidence is still being discovered? This is about encouraging police departments to do a thorough job without worrying about the political ramifications, and discouraging wannabe heroes from wandering around looking to mete out street justice.

That racist attitude that you speak of Dates back to the Civil War and the Southerners that moved here after the war as war prisoners.

Looks like Janesville's long history of being a racist city is rearing it's ugly head again. Shame on you haters!

You can always tell where janesvillain will be (ontheleft). With no considerable thought or exploration of the facts.

From reading this article one young lady feels you should not be judged by the way you look. So, I should be able to wear a white hood, with just my eyes and mouth cut out, to protect my fair skin from the sun. Another gentleman would like to put out incentives for African-Americans to become police officers in Janesville. How about you train for the job, apply for it, and if you are qualified you get the job. Also, since our community has become more diversified the crime rate has increased, welfare has increased, and special education needs has increased. This is not gossip, it is fact. The community of Janesville is not racist, it welcomes diversity, if the people bringing the diversity, bring something to the plate. For those that don't, John Q Public is tired of you. I am certainly not condoning what happened in Florida. Let Florida take care of it. Stop making it a local issue as if it happened here. Everyone needs to respect themselves and respect others. If you think you are not being respected, then you need to look at yourself first and ask why. Stop hiding behind the term "racism." Man up and clean up your own backyard first.

Too bad Trayvon Martin wasn't packing a 9mm with him because he may have been able to stand his ground against a stalker. Hopefully more people will learn from this and arm themselves appropriately. Only because police and neighborhood watch volunteers can't be everywhere to protect everyone. They weren't there in time to protect Martin.

More guns, more gambling, more beer.

This is for you gun worshipping hoodie-fearing T-party carbuncles pounding away on your keyboards.

It's a stiff and straight leg right foot forward first on "free" followed by your left foot forward on "dom." All together now. Let's swing it.

Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom!
Lookin good. Goose-step up!
Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom!
That's it!
Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom!
Straight-legged forward. Up high!
Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom!
Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom!
Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom!

Beeeautiful!

You can tell who the right-wingers are in this thread. They're the ones who are suddenly concerned about black victims of violence in Chicago.
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The use of distraction in argument is a sure sign that you're losing ground.

After reading the comments posted, one would think I would be angry...I'm just extremely sad. The night President Obama got elected I actually had tears in my eyes with the hope that maybe our nation had finally progressed enough to be able to put racism behind us. How naive I was. Instead of healing the nation from racism, President Obama's election seems to have reignited the hatred with a fury. This nation will never prosper for ALL when so many hold such hatred, bigotry and racsism in their hearts. Those of you who are so angry should keep in mind that hatred is a cancer that eats away at your soul in the same way cancer eats away your body.

Respond with brevity, eh? Well, I suppose I could display my presumably vast intellect and graciousness by calling you a knucklehead, or maybe a moron. Naw, I would't want to do that. The next thing you know, serious people with something to say would rightly conclude that it's a waste of time responding to someone who would post something like that.

SarahB1.....Thanks for the clarification......So you're telling me that Martin, at 6'2"ish with an athletic build couldn't get away from a 5'9", 260+ guy?? Seriously???

You people are a perfect example of racism and profiling!! What part of a hoodie makes you "gansta" ?? Athletes wear hoodies, Teachers wear hoodies, my grandma wears hoodies? Seriously! And what did these people gathering here do to harm you? It was there time not yours, This is a America and a free country to do as you please. The people there were there because of there CHOICE. Not yours. Grow up people. THis isnt what color we are, its about we are all Human, and children of god. Regardless of our race! The sad thing is, people will never change in this world!

So billy, would you only be happy if black kids wore tuxedos when leaving the house; especially when walking through white neighborhoods? And tell me with a straight face that if the skin color of these two people were reversed that Zimmerman would not be in jail as we speak. And please respond with brevity. I don't have as much time to read the thoughts on this site as you have to write them.

TTTT, Liebert needs to do nothing to create a racial issue in Janesville. Most of these comments including yours wins that cause hands down.

Koch_Bros, you are such a low life! I can't wait to hear you cry when Walker wins the recall.

Actually- a simple polygraph would clear the whole mystery up. If I were Zimmerman and had nothing to hide, I would request one.

Slow news day, who cares

the usual suspects and the usual comments, and yes, I'm sure one could say the same of me and my comments. I'm with cnw 1313, lets get all the facts and present them equally. Also, Sharpton and Jackson are racebaiters in my book, and yes, showing a picture of Martin at 12, not the 6ft 2 inch wanna be gangster he labeled HIMSELF is a clear attempt by the press to manipulate the opinions of those who will NOT think for themselves.

billnewbie said, "Don't people who adopt the "Gangsta" look court unanticipated, dangerous reactions to their "look" too? Are those who react to the "gangsta" look being racist, or prudent?"

Sounds eerily similar to those who claim that a girl who dresses "provocatively" is courting unanticipated, dangerous reactions to her "look." Is the rapist being a criminal or prudent? What an outlandish attempt to justify the murder of a child.

MadeInUSA, your choice of a phrase to describe what the "District Attorney ruled" is offensive and inflammatory. Your description of what happened is not even remotely supported by what you claim the "District Attorney ruled." There was a State Attorney Norm Wolfinger, not a District Attorney, and he made the choice to not charge Zimmerman against the advice of a Sanford police detective, according to news reports. The ruling you described does not exist.

"Sanford police detective Chris Serino, unconvinced by Zimmerman's story of self-defense, wanted to charge him with manslaughter but was overruled by the office of State Attorney Norm Wolfinger, the prosecutor whose district includes the city of Sanford, ABC News reported on Tuesday." [ http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBR... ]

Sam Liebert said "“show the city and the county and the state and the country that Janesville is not a place that tolerates racism or discrimination or enforces stereotypes.” But joining lynch mobs still seems to be OK, I guess.

And if you won't join the mob, you're a knucklehead too, according to some self-important elitists.

But really, holding up Al Sharpton as a champion of fairness ??? Isn't that the same Al Sharpton who made his name taking up the case of Tawana Brawley, leading these same types of "vigils", calling for racial justice and condemning any who won't jump on the bandwagon (Just as he is now) on little evidence which turned out to be a fraud? And not once has Sharpton retracted a thing he said or did. Sharpton is a poor figure to rally behind.

I could spend more that 3000 words about Jessie Jackson, but few who have any knowledge of recent history would need to be reminded about how thoroughly he has disqualified himself. Yet still the media (and certain commenters) lap up everything that man says. That's amazing.

However, I can understand to some extent the rush to judgement here. It's true that stereotyping still goes on. Such sterotyping has often lead to violence against minorities, and it still does. Still, when the papers and news shows have stories of gangs of hoodie wearing black thugs attacking women, old folks, etc. on almost a daily basis, you have to wonder, why would a "good" kid such as we are told Trayvon was, wear an outfit that identifies with gang related activities?

I know of a young lady who is "into" the "Goth" look. She enjoys the looks of disdain she gets from people who react to her "look" when she's out at the mall and other such places. One of her friend's parents refused to allow their daughter to associate with this young girl. Her "look" disturbed them, and that's not what they want for their daughter. The young girl was quite upset at those parents' reaction to her. I thought that was strange. This girl enjoys upsetting people with her look. Yet she seems upset that her friend's parents are upset with her look and did something about it. She courted disdainful reactions and she got one. I guess you could say that she discovered the law of unanticipated consequences the hard way. Don't people who adopt the "Gangsta" look court unanticipated, dangerous reactions to their "look" too? Are those who react to the "gangsta" look being racist, or prudent? I suppose one could say either one with some justification, or even both. But is a person who wears the "gangsta" style not at least somewhat responsible for how another may react to him?

Make sure you're packing heat, before standing your ground.

"Residents hold vigil in Janesville for Trayvon Martin"

OMG what a joke, lol !!!

If, indeed Zimmerman was beaten, didn't the young man have as much right to STAND HIS GROUND?

"...had this young man hurt, raped, or killed someone we would be saying why someone didn't step in to assist the neighborhood..."-vatoloco @ 8:55am.

Why would you even speculate about the kid hurting, raping, or killing someone? Do you know something that no one else knows?

Do all kids hurt, rape and kill? or are there specific traits that you use to determine this?

Are you saying that certain types of kids hurt, rape, and kill people? How do you determine what type of kids do this just by looking at them? Is it the way they dress? Is it the brand of soft drink and candy that they buy at the convenience store? Is it the way they walk? Is it the color of their skin?

Are you people crazy? Why was Zimmerman following this kid? You don't go around looking for people to shoot if they're committing a crime. Watchdog groups are supposed to report crimes only. I'm certain that the police departments across the country would object to this type of vigilante justice. Policemen and women spend a great deal of time learning how "not to shoot". This was not some whacked out kid out looking for someone to hurt.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/tr...

brodheadnative, those are some strong allegations. Again, we need to wait until charges are or are not pressed and more FACTS come out. Do we have Zimmerman's medical report? NO. Do we have all of the official statements from witnesses? NO. Most witnesses claim it was Zimmerman yelling for help. FACTS are the only thing that will clear this up and right now we have too few. Do no marks on Martin mean there was no fight, or does it mean that Martin had the upper hand in a fight and Zimmerman didn't get in any return blows except for the gunshot?
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I admit, at first I thought Zimmerman was GUILTY, but now that more information is coming out and the situation is become more unclear, I am absolutely unsure if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime or not.

RoCo Chick George Zimmerman was not attacked, the video shows that. A paramedic would have put a bandage on his head if he was so 'injured.' George Zimmerman was the aggressor, if he had done as he was told this never would have happened. But Zimmerman thinks he is such a bad xss, he could not follow simple directions. The fact the police wanted him to charge him that night, and the first detective did not believe him , speaks volumes. I think zimmerman has had daddy cleaning up after him all his life, well daddy is not going to get him out of this one.

The funeral director has come out and said the only wound on Trayvon was the bullet wound. There were no signs he been in a fight, such as bruising or scratches. Zimmerman is a very guilty man and belongs in prison. A former co worker has also said Zimmerman had been fired from a job securing 'house parties' because he was to aggressive. He picked a woman up and through her. The co-worker described him very much a Jekyll and Hyde.

Wasp....The Florida statute reads as follows:
776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
So you're actually trying to make the argument that being asked a question such as, "What are you doing in the neighborhood?" is a precursor to imminent death or great bodily harm? Seriously??

@GuyKing: There is no "reverse" racism. Just racism. As a white male, I have experienced it myself. Try walking down the street in Detroit as a white male! You better do it during the day, in a busy, crowded area. And the crowd better be largely white. If not - watch out!!

916, Evidently with your apparent vast knowledge of the law you might be able let me know how zimmerman "had every right ask the boy what he was up to". It seems to me that the way this law is written, anyone who feels threatened can use deadly force, so if the boy felt threatened he had every right to use deadly force. I guess whoever survives is is right. Ergo dumb law!

916WI said, "To make it a fair and balanced story, don't you think the media should use a pic of Zimmerman when he was 11, maybe eating some ice cream or playing a game at Chuckie Cheeses, as well?"

No, I don't. Martin was a 17 year old kid. Zimmerman was a 28 year old man with a handgun - a difference of 11 years and a handgun. Showing photos of them both as 11 year olds would not be fair and balanced. Unless, of course, you saw it on FOX News. Showing photos of them as 11 and 22 years old, with the 22 year old brandishing a handgun, would be more fair and balanced. Get the picture, 916WI?

Did you hear president Obama say if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon? Walking around, suspended from school, having a criminal record, beating-up neighborhood watch volunteers. I guess Obama wouldn't be the father we all would expect him to be.

Hopefuly something good will come from this. Maybe Zimmerman will get a high-paid job helping and organizing neighborhood watch groups nationwide. His keen sense of 'something is wrong here' should be shared with many communities to provide us all with safer neighborhoods.

Shopierehuh........"Stalked the kid"?? This is the USA......Zimmerman had every right to follow this guy and ask him what he was up to. What law did Zimmerman break in doing this?
It's drama queens like you that are the problem. Equating being asked a simple question to being "molested" and conveniently forgetting to mention that the victim of this horrible "being asked a question molestation" just happened to punch the perpetrator in the face and slam his head into the ground.
This whole thing would be comedic if it weren't so tragic. You have Jackson and Sharpton --two of the biggest racists around--getting on their jets to head down to Florida. After hearing the name "Zimmerman" they were probably salivating over the opportunity to both remain relevant and having another shot to get whitey.......Only to get down there and find a hispanic with black relatives as their white devil. Not wanting to waste a trip, they go and rile everyone up before the facts are known again. I really had no idea that they hated hispanics as much as white people though......Then we have Obama coming out with the laughable quote, “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon”.......Yeah right--could you see Trayvon Obama walking into the White House with his gold teeth, hoody, and his pants hanging down around his ankles asking for the keys to the Escalade while his pops was meeting with the leaders of other countries? Somehow I don't think Barack and Michelle would allow such a thing. And then we have the pic of 11 year old Trayvon in the red Hollister shirt being flashed all over the media. What's up with that? Unless Abercrombie threw an insane amount of advertising dollars their way, I don't understand why they don't use one of the more current pics to more accurately report on the situation? There seems to be an extremely current pic of Zimmerman wearing his orange jumpy that the media has no issue using. You glance at the story and you would think that Zimmerman got beat up by and then ended up shooting an 11 year old child. To make it a fair and balanced story, don't you think the media should use a pic of Zimmerman when he was 11, maybe eating some ice cream or playing a game at Chuckie Cheeses, as well?? Like I said, great comedy if it wasn't so tragic.......

Thank God Zimmerman had his 9mm with him that morning or he may have been beaten to death. Neighborhood watch groups should learn a lesson from this - make sure our volunteers are properly armed.

This is the USA. High school students should be in school at that time of the day. Zimmerman acted properly - end of story.

Zimmerman, a self-appointed watchman, (not doing a job as some want to spin) profiled the kid, stalked the kid, then apparently finally got a reaction from the kid, then he shot him dead. The kid was walking down the street on his way home from the convenience store where he bought a soft drink and some candy.

This is the USA, last I checked you have every right to walk down the street and not be molested and shot dead. These self appointed vigilantes need to mind their own business and leave people alone. If justice is not served in this matter, I would not be surprised to see some cities burn this spring and summer. This is simply an observation, nothing more.

I like the way the article says he was a high school student. He was actually suspended but why bother mentioning it, we don't want to mix all the facts in with the 'story'.

I think I will start my own group and call it the New White Lion Party. I bet that would cause a stir.....If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck. My sure bet will be, it is a duck.

It wasn't long ago that the media convicted Casey Anthony for a crime she did not do. Now they have convicted George Zimmerman for a crime he did not do. I see a pattern here - bad news sells newspapers.

"I read the comments of some of the racist knuckleheads on this site"
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So sad how the left has, on a continual basis, ignored and devalued what racism truly is.

truecitizen said, "Discontinue expounding on this and potentially making it worse. By the way, what Spike Lee did was horrible and potentially deadly for two innocent people. I wonder if the Rev Jackson and a few others are pushing for peaceful response as much as they claim."

You just managed to ignore your own advice in the same paragraph that you dispensed it. You probably won't have much success getting people to heed your advice when you ignore it yourself.

You know all you people around this country that are involved,no matter what the outcome is,no body wins,even if they think they have,they have thrown another stone against America ever being one nation under god,one god!
Face it,we will always be divided!!! If it were a white kid,like the blacks that beat the hell out of a white kid in Milwaukee,the news avoided like the pledge to report the story. Fact!!
This is about a man doing his job & a boy being defiant, if you think this is not a racial thing,your ignorant!

I keep saying to myself, "Come on! The verbal attacks on this kid are not racially motivated." And then I read the comments of some of the racist knuckleheads on this site and reevaluate my thinking.

fearandrhetoric...This is what I am talking about! You are factually wrong. Almost immediately there was an independent investigator assigned to this case. I think the point has been made by concerned people, that they want justice one way or another. More of this outcry is only inflaming the situation if were not careful.

But aren't both Martin & Zimmerman (who is half-Latino) half-white too? So where's the spin on that angle? Just doesn't read as well does it?

And why is it that none of these national activists (or local concerned citizens) seem to express much interest in making an honest effort at stopping black-on-black (or Latino-on-Latino) homicide when it seems such a leading cause of death among young men in many communities? Hmmm...odd.

Sadly, NO ONE is likely innocent in this case (and especially the grandstanders - shame on them!), just like so many circumstances where the participants are often both the authors of their own fate?

PS If Martin was so concerned about someone following him, why didn't he just call 911 instead of a female friend? Yeah, I know...just can't trust 5-oh, can you?

This investigation would never have happened if not for the outcry, why do so many have trouble seeing that? THAT in itself is an alaming issue dont you think?

We need to allow for an objective investigation to take place at the local level, where it occurred. Everything that has stemmed from this incident, has been inflammatory. Regardless of incident's truths. Wanting to evoke anger as some have, or implying disparity in other communities to evoke anger is a serious problem, and is not a true sample nor is it proper.
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If a crime was committed then let it be judged by those authorities. Discontinue expounding on this and potentially making it worse. By the way, what Spike Lee did was horrible and potentially deadly for two innocent people. I wonder if the Rev Jackson and a few others are pushing for peaceful response as much as they claim.

""The real tragedy is that George Zimmerman was attacked and injured - yet the media and racist activists are making HIM look like the bad guy here.""

Anymore falsehoods? Look at the video NO INJURIES, no blood on the shirt, no mythical broken nose. Why is it that the right wingers are so quick to defend this guy? I just don't get it? Maybe showing their true colors?
Its people like Rococo chick that just continue to ignore facts and spew rhetoric. The worst part about this case? The fact that it took a national outcry for the police department to do their job!! This shooting happened OVER a MONTH ago!! This investigation should be DONE! George Zimmerman was not supposed to be carrying a weapon on watch, he was told not to pursue Trayvon, instead of being a human being, he decides to be a vigilante. What happened to liberty and Justice for Travon? The only "proof" the Zimmerman supporters seem to have is hearsay. People that are skeptical of Zimmerman have a TON of tangible evidence. 911 calls, Video tape refuting injuries claimed by the shooter. Oh ya and one peson is DEAD. Now it seems that if you defend yourself physically from someone who is pursuing you based on RACIAL Profiling you deserve to be shot! What a terrible place this country has become. what a terrible group of old skeptical people that simply call facts based on claims from one side because they are either racist or they cling to their right to bear firearms and kill people for any reason they see fit.

As to the vigil, what a great outpouring by our community for a very tragic situation. Proud of THIS part of Janesville. Not proud of all the old Racist Rednecks that seem to dwell in our midst that will never admit this situation for what it is.

I think any person or persons gathering for the purpose of hate,vigilante activities are all a bunch of thugs!!
I guess because Obama can put a price on a persons head,is that why this is alright? For them people to do the same?? A man or woman puts a price on the others head,aren't they locked up for premeditated intent to murder??

Even for those that believe the death of Trayvon Martin was not caused by, or indicative of, serious underlying issues in America, the reaction to his death has surely illuminated those issues and more.

A person previously commented, "White people will be the minorities by the year 2050...That's very scary!" Diverse community discussions and gatherings, like this vigil, will help to one day minimize the fear that is so clearly apparent in that comment.

I would like to thank the vigil organizers and participants.

The real tragedy is that George Zimmerman was attacked and injured - yet the media and racist activists are making HIM look like the bad guy here. Only in America .....

What ever happened when a little girls got raped in Montery Park after watch a game,by a black boy?? Girl was white & i think around 15!! He didn't kill her,but I'll bet she wishes he did,all her life she has to live with what happened,i pray for her,and have thought about how she is coping?
I agree if you go around looking like a thug,people are going to a sum you are,and they should really put a life size picture of the boy,so everyone can really see how he might be intimidating,6ft.something person/kid would be intimidating to me,and the neighborhood watch man,should've followed him to see what he was up to,that was his job to keep the neighborhood safe on his watch.
These jump the gun do gooders don't even know what really happen,yet,bunch of trouble makers i think,or 15 minutes of shame struck!

I think the last line from GuyKing sums up why civil rights leaders are out there fighting against injustice. Being the minority is scary for those who are.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It is a reverse racism!!! All these protesters are racists! All of the protesters, including civil rights leaders are all racists against other people who are not black! What if a white boy goes into the "hood" of Chicago, for example, and he gets killed? Would George W. Bush come out and hold a press conference and say, "If I had a son, then he would look like this white boy?" Please stop the reverse racism!!! White people will be the minorities by the year 2050...That's very scary!

Zimmerman reminds me of a kid I went to high school with. This kid went on to train to be a firefighter. He had the need to be a "hero", which means, he wanted to be a firefighter for all the wrong reasons. One day while he was attending MATC he made an explosive, planted the explosive, called in anonymously to say there was a bomb, found the explosive device himself, disarmed it, and then basked in the glory of being the "hero". He was found out not to shortly after. Zimmerman wanted to be the neighborhood watch leader, he carried a gun, he made multiple 911 calls for non-emergency reasons. This all leads me to believe that he wanted to be a "hero" to his community. Unfortunately, according to many of the posts I am reading tonight, he is going to be a hero to some.

Let's see. The Rev. Wright, Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are evil. If you dress like a thug, you'll get treated like a thug. Sam Liebert is Janesville's Jesse Sharpton. Nobody knows what really happened but an unarmed Trayvon Martin is dead because everyone is innocent until proven guilty. President Obama is hateful because he said Trayvon Martin looks like a son he never had. The media shows the wrong images of both Zimmerman and Martin. Zimmerman no longer looks like the thug from his earlier years and Martin no longer looks like the innocent kid of his younger years. Spike Lee, Rosanne Barr and the left media are all evil. To memorialize someone and wish for justice is to exploit their death. And now we want to know why Obama hasn't said other black kids also look like a son. No one mentions how Zimmerman and Martin relates to a white boy in St.Louis chased home and doused with gasoline and lit on fire or the 14 year old white girl in new hampshire who was terrorized by 4 black boys. Anytime people are united in cause and effort is evil union style thuggery.

Keep em' coming.

If Janesville's police department should reflect the people they police, then I guess we need one that can't speak English. We should probably get one who is a drunk driver and don't forget one that used to work at GM. I think the comment from Liebert about needing a black police officer is discriminatory . So now we have to choose police officers by the color of their skin not by their qualifications ?

I have no respect for and question the motives of any "movement" in our society whenever people like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Benjamin Jealous become nothing more than racist ambulance chasers for them.

How about a vigil for James Cooper, 25, and James Kouzaris, 24, who were brutally murdered by 17-year-old Shawn Tyson in Sarasota FL? And why isn't Mr. O'Bama saying that, if he had a son, he would look like Shawn Tyson? Hmmm.....
It doesn't appear that Mr. Shawn Tyson was acting in self-defense. We still do not know for sure, but it *does* appear that Mr. Zimmerman was. Why the double-standard???
Here's a link if you have not been made aware of this story. Btw, contacts to the White House have not been returned or even acknowledged.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/prose...

Hey Joker, I was at both events, I also support gay rights. How do you like them beans?

I don't like how the media is twisting this around to make it seem like this kid was just an innocent victim and show a picture of him when he was like 13 years old. Somehow I doubt the kid was a choir boy like the media would have you believe.

cnw1313, you got a problem with Rev. Wright or the Black Panthers, take it up with them instead of associating folks here and cowardly attacking them on an anonymous blog. I can assure they won't run away. So what is it cnw1313? Are you just a chronic liar or you don't know any better?

cnw1313, the reward offered by the New Black Panther Party (which is not the same organization as the Black Panther Party, just so you know) is for the citizens arrest of Zimmermann. That said, the NBPP is considered a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The NBPP is neither large nor widely supported. As SarahB1 is very unlikely to be a member of this organization, why exactly are you demanding that she defend it?
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0327/N...

Y.K.M......Don't forget Rev. Wright. Another fine upstanding citizen of Chicago. And Sarah. As long as you like to defend everything liberals do, can you justify the 10,000 dollar bounty put on Mr. Zimmerman by the Black Panthers?

Are they all going to go mug someone after? This whole things has been taken too far. And I agree 100% w/ the first post on this thread.

Those marches against violence have been going on for years is true.What then does that have to do with the C.C. Law when this violence has been going on for years?

If the witnesses who have stated that the kid began running away and was then chased are credible, then it seems to be an open and shut case doesn't it? Or didn't he have the right to turn and confront the threat?

Sorry but I don't understand how everyone seems to really know what happened that night? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? He's been tried and convicted by angry mobs of people...acting like bullys themselves! Yes its sad a young life was taken, but until ALL the info is out I will not react like all of the crazys are right now. Get a grip people! We have American soldiers dying and coming home hurt...where are all you do gooders for them?

cnw1313. You tell lies or you just don't know any better. I have personally witnessed Jesse Jackson and Bobby Rush march in Chicago's mostly black neighborhoods and speak out with Father Michael Pfleger out in public against black-on-black violence. Sharpton too has spoken out against black-on-black violence, but he's mostly a NY guy. The thing is, when people are gunned down in Chicago, people expect law enforcement to hunt down the perps and prosecute them. If they let them go and give backs their guns like they did with Zimmerman - there will be more outrage.

Dress like a thug get treated like a thug. I am guessiing his pants were down around his knees to. Doesn't matter if he was black or not.

I wonder if the supporters of Red Neck Fest were there. Doubt it. I support this vigil. I am glad that at least some people in Janesville have some decency and concern for their fellow man.

this is NOT about race. everyone would know that if they looked at both sides of the story as it is coming out. it is ablut manslaughter at worst and maybe self defense in reality.of course, the crazy far left is making it a political issue with obama weighing in as "if it were my son." more obama class warfare. good going prez! if this guy gets reelected for another term, the united states will cease to exist in its current form.

It's amazing that the whole country turned into judge and jury in this incident. No one present here has a clue as to what actually happened there. Why don't we wait until all the facts are out on this case. And where are Sharpton and Jackson when it comes to black on black shootings, which seem to take place on a daily basis? They hide like cowards.