RAF - despite my aversion to responding to obvious "cut and paste" posts from outside sources, there was one assertion that was the crux of the last part that is so very easy to disprove. School boards rarely negotiated on their own. First - they have a state organization, the Wisconsin Association of School Boards (WASB) that annually created bargaining goals and gave seminars to boards about negotiating. Second - the WASB recommends that a district employes a professional negotiations attorney (and most districts comply). So the assertion that the playing field was not level is just completely false.

"Unions are better organized and more likely to rely on full-time professional negotiators than are many of the public entities with which they bargain, notably small school districts. At the local level, turnover among school board membership is high with the result that union negotiators often have training and experience that their board counterparts lack.

Because public agencies must conduct much of their business in public, and because their budgets are matters of public record, negotiators for public employee unions are likely to have accurate information about their employee's ability to pay and can fine-tune demands to maximize their members' share of school or municipal budgets.

In the case of teachers and public safety personnel, the high respect with which the public regards individual teachers, police officers and firemen may create good will during contract negotiations. Members of the National Education Association and its state and local affiliates systematically avoid referring to themselves as a "union" in public statements.

For reasons of this kind, negotiations between public employee unions and their employers bear less resemblance to private-sector bargaining than to lobbying. Like any private interest seeking benefits from public funds, unions prefer to negotiate with only whatever minimum level of transparency may be required by law. That is, they would prefer to avoid drawing taxpayer attention to the cost of whatever pay or benefit package they may be seeking. They contend that all adversarial negotiations may lead a general lack of public support for education and other needed public services.

Transparency: Advocates of greater transparency concede that face-to-face negotiations may appropriately be conducted behind closed doors to facilitate frank communication and suggestions for compromise. They argue, however, that the formal proposals of each side should be released to the public in timely fashion, just as would be the case for any large, long-term agreement (e.g., a major construction project)."

http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Coll...

"Arguments and claims

Public sector managers have almost none of the financial incentives of private-sector management to minimize labor costs. Private sector managers are likely either to own stock in their firm or know that their own paychecks depend on negotiating a cost-effective deal. If anything, public sector administrators (e.g., school superintendents) have incentives to see their subordinate employees paid as highly as possible because their own and their immediate staff's salaries tend to rise in tandem with those of their unionized employees.[2]

In public sector bargaining unions may have advocates on both sides of the table. That is, elected officials may owe their own positions to support from unions.[3] They themselves or members of their immediate family may be union members. For example, Pennsylvania laws bar school board members who are also union members from participating directly in union contract negotiations, but does not bar them from voting on any resulting contract.

Unlike private firms, public agencies cannot move or threaten to move their operations to areas with lower labor costs. For example, a school board cannot outsource its operations to a neighboring school district, much less to a non-union state or offshore. In states like Pennsylvania, where public employee strikes are legal, teacher unions can strike without having to fear anything like a manufacturing plant closure. On the contrary, teacher unions can point to higher levels of salaries and benefits in any nearby area as a reason why their own employees should be paid more, not less.

Few substitutes are available for public goods like education. If brewery employees strike, consumers may switch brands or substitute some other beverage for beer. Parents of school age children, who are the consumers of educational services, can switch to private schools only with difficulty, if at all."

"History

Collective bargaining started to be used in the 1950s by public employees, with Wisconsin being the first state to adopt it. Between 1955 and 1965 10 states adopted collective bargaining. New York Mayor Robert Wagner was the first public official to promise legalize public sector unions in return for their vote for office.[1]

In 1962, President John F. kennedy signed Executive Order 10988 granting public sector union membership. Since this Executive Order, public employee membership has risen significantly, while private sector union membership greatly decreased.[1] Currently, 26 states have collective bargaining rights for all state and local workers, twelve have portions of their workers unionized, and 12 other states have no collective bargaining in the public sector."

http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Coll...

"Collective bargaining,private-public sector differences

The differences between collective bargaining in the public and private sectors are well understood by students of the subject but often ignored by legislators and the public. Laws governing public employee unions and collective bargaining in the public sector (all levels of government, including local school districts) are often modeled on similar legislation governing collective bargaining between unions and private companies, which were legalized in 1935."

I have to laugh looking back at my 5th grade experience. It was 1968, Humphrey vs. Nixon. My teacher adored Hubert Humphrey so all we students had to make round paper "buttons" with HHH written on them in bright blue. We wore these in class for afternoon cheering sessions for HHH. Not a single Nixon button in the classroom.

I always thought to myself, "This is SO weird! My parents are voting for Nixon and I have to wear an HHH button..." I don't think I ever said a word to this teacher. Perhaps I stealthfully rolled my eyes.

My mother said this teacher later named her child after me. I was one of her favorite students. Thank goodness this passed and my teacher never found out what I really thought of all that! Thank goodness she never asked who our parents were going to vote for.

Don't you think INSTEAD that this teacher could have made an equal number of HHH and Nixon buttons and had the kids randomly take a button? Then each child could research the candidate's platform and report on one stanch of that candidate? Hmmm, how novel (and fair and balanced) would that have been?

Teachers, either present both sides or don't go there at all. You would expect your children's teachers to do the same, I'm sure.

Fear not, fellow posters, RAF will have his own twisted logic/interpretation for all of us to view. He has never been and never will be wrong.

The framework for contracts and negotiations for public employee unions are often developed by non-elected government bureaucrats and third party arbitration teams. RAF makes it sound like elected officials deal directly with union contracts and that is simply not the case. In the end, usually the entire body of elected representatives vote on the contracts. If elected officials had the kind of skin in the game RAF speaks of, that would be a pure conflict of interest where officials would be voting on contracts they themselves would see a direct personal benefit from or to benefit another crony. At the same time, using RAF’s definition of having “skin in the game,” means every decision elected officials make they make without having skin in the game, so singling out union contracts for public employees is strictly a partisan stunt. RAF's statement is a common talking point from the right that is easily debunked.

Poobah – “Elected people are taxpayers, they are giving of their time, they endure abuse, they receive little gratitude from their constituents (your comment is a great example of that) and most are very conscientious about doing the best job they can. No skin in the game?”

When reading the quote above from your last post, I remembered back to when our kids were in school. I know that many teachers and school officials put in extra work to prepare for Memorial Day celebrations. I wonder how many teachers and their families attended ceremonies to thank veterans for their service today (some teachers are veterans themselves). How many teachers worked to help communities organize Memorial Services and parades honoring RetiredAirForce veterans and others who served our country (I know one veteran who is a teacher and has done this for well over 35 years, never missing a year). They didn’t ask whether the veterans supported them or not, but they support and honor the veterans no matter what. How many teachers have lost loved ones and previous students in the war this past year? I know some that have had this loss across the state. And RAF? He uses the day that they used to honor him and others, to let them know that in his mind, they have no skin in the game – just a drain on his well endowed and overflowing bank account.

RAF, how about a sincere thank you out here to those teachers who worked so hard to honor us veterans today – and call a truce for the rest of the day? I appreciate and thank them for the extra effort even at this very busy time of the year for them – how about you?

RetiredAirForce said, "Public unions negotiate with elected people, many of whom were supported by the very union they are negotiating with during their election; and they have no skin in the game when it comes to the outcome."

Elected people "have no skin in the game when it comes to the outcome," says RetiredAirForce. What a cynical and inaccurate comment. You've apparently been sleeping for the past 10 years and haven't noticed the "skin" elected people have in the game. Elected people are taxpayers, they are giving of their time, they endure abuse, they receive little gratitude from their constituents (your comment is a great example of that) and most are very conscientious about doing the best job they can. No skin in the game?

kidsfirst are you aware that during private union negotiations with individual companies the unions have limited to no access to financial documents and budgets but they have full access with public entities? Are you also aware that a private company that negotiates has skin in the game so to speak; they are the ones that pay for the outcome. Public unions negotiate with elected people, many of whom were supported by the very union they are negotiating with during their election; and they have no skin in the game when it comes to the outcome.

Bobo - what is your point? teachers represent the human population-- some volunteered and are volunteering today. Others pass. So do other members of society. How is this issue another stick for beating up teachers? Sad, sad, sad. . . .

Skippy--although Madison and Milwaukee are part of our state-wide union, they do not force any level of salary or benefit. Each local association bargains independently. Like the private sector, if employees are compensated better by company C than surrounding companies, others may choose to increase salaries and benefits in order to compete for the best employees.
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Please note that it costs less to buy a burger from the dollar menu. That does not mean the quality is the same as the "angus deluxe."

~~~~~~~~~~ Regarding savings on insurance. Walker is counting on the majority of constituents being gullible and believing him, but the truth is, health insurance was a subject of collective bargaining-- agreement on which provider has always been part of the negotiation. Since Act 10 there is no negotiation. NEVER in the 20 years I have been active in the state level of the union has there been one company that all districts were "forced" to use. Scotty keeps trying his best to flame the fire of anger with lies, unfortunately his fan club wants to believe he is a man of integrity and refuse to look at the facts. So, many of you will fan the flames for him.

vato - please come out and play again. You have some questions that are still outstanding from some of us. Capitulating?

Hey vato, hows about you list how many teaching positions were cut in those districts as well? Maybe those "savings" aren't all due to insurance/benefits cuts (yes benefits cuts because when you get a cheaper insurance policy, the employees spend more on deductables and copays so all you're doing is shifting more costs to the employees which is really the same as another pay cut).
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And let's remember the wonderful Kauakuna example where the district not only cut 15 teaching positions but the school board REJECTED a proposed contract from the union that would have saved the district $1.8 MILLION, saying "it's not about the money, it's about getting rid of collective bargaining".

"In fact you can punch in the name of any state employee and see there income with benefits. Its the rite as tax payers...After all we are just asking them to HELP pay for THERE health insurance and THERE retirement. But I have to admit again it was a tacky move."-chett @1:08am

Where income?

Rite as taxpayers? Like a rite of passage?

WHERE health insurance?

WHERE retirement?

A Walker supporter? Yes, I see a pattern.

It's hardly earth-shattering to point out that if you cut the amount of money you pay people, you "save" money. This is politics for IQs of less than 100.

EdJames222
May 22, 2012 at 9:17 a.m.

READ IT.

Thanks, Ed. You're "spot on."

Fear, I think that Chett has a public education. I know I do. As for why only publish certain ones, the list is too long for a flier (DUH). If you can not pay your rent or car payment,on a teachers salary, you are obviously spending money in the worst ways. I make as much as a teacher, and I have no problem paying for my stuff. I do not over spend. You have zero argument, so you resort to Ad Hominem argument tactics. Typical Democrat. Oops, now I sound like you fear. Maybe you should look up Ad Hominem and make your IQ higher. By the way, I have not seen the flier, and do not need to. I already know what the teachers make. It doesn't anger me, however it really seems to be the other way around. Go ahead and check my grammar.

Hey Chett might want to work on your grammar when slamming teachers and THEIR benefits. That being said its anti-teacher by making an attempt to pitt people against their kids teachers by creating jealousy over health and pension benefits by duistributing a flier that purports less than the top 10% of salaries? WHere are the hundreds of other teachers that make barely enough to make rent and a car payment? People like chett and skippy are the people that these fleirs were meant to anger and obviously it has worked. Are these salaries public record? Of course, but remember THEY ALL ARE and you must ask why only publish the very few that make the most at the top? A move to once again use the divide and conquer politics that so many at the lower end of the IQ spectrum fall for each and every time. ConGRATS Chett they have THERES(Theirs) so you want to make it worth less because you didnt better yourself and get an education. Maybe you should look in the mirror and learn some grammar next time before posting.

chett, what's your opinion on the bottom section of the flier?

'At the bottom of the flier is a "Parents' Rights Protection Form" urging parents to send it to Superintendent Karen Schulte and request that "my child be assigned to a classroom taught by a non-radical teacher during the 2012-2013 school year."'

Teachers already pay for 100% of their health care and benefits. If their health care costs went down, the difference should be paid back in salary since they negotiated for the entire compensatory package.

The first line is anti-teacher? Why cant Stan show just a little bit of non-partisan reporting.. These numbers have always been available to the public. Its public information and can be viewed on a web site. In fact you can punch in the name of any state employee and see there income with benefits. Its the rite as tax payers to know where EVERY cent goes. The fact that someone had to print it out and stuff them in mailbox's is a bit tacky but maybe it opened some eyes? After all we are just asking them to HELP pay for THERE health insurance and THERE retirement. But I have to admit again it was a tacky move.

Kids first. It seems to me that the list of 16 are small areas, and areas that did not renew their union contracts before this went through. The list of 16 is showing that at least some districts are saving money. Madison and Milwaukee should not dictate the amount teachers make and force hardships on the smaller school districts that do not have enough revenue to pay outlandish union contracts. Try getting a hold of the union contract for the teachers.

Give and take is what life is all about. When you are given something you are happy, heaven forbid something get taken away. More Government Control = less freedom. I conducted a poll at my place of work, and found that 50 percent of the people have children whom have come home from school and told their parents that the teachers are discussing the current issues with only the teachers perspective. My kids are too young for school yet, and I plan on putting them in private school. These teachers and you know who you are, need to be fired. There is a time and a place to dicuss this subject, and it is not with anyone's children. I will make sure that they are informed on both sides of things. It is the parents job to make sure that their kids understand these things, not disgruntled teachers who have nothing better to do. How would you feel if your kids were taught the religion of the teachers? Keep the kids out of the crying and bologna. Most of all grow up and get over it.

my number for school districts might not be completely accurate, but I estimated from a data bank on DPI-- in any case, whether 424 or 443, 16 districts is a VERY small sample. . .

vata -- there are 424 school districts in WI. Gov. Walker state that all districts had been forced to use one company. That is a lie. He misrepresents (or is it lies?) again and again and again. . . Saving money may sound good, but I can buy a burger from the dollar menu at McD's or get a butter burger at Culver's -- saving money does not always = good.

Vato – there are 443 school districts in Wisconsin. You listed 16 I believe if I counted right. What about the other 96.4% of the districts?

According to a report released last week by the Department of Public Instruction (DPI), the “tools” Republican Gov. Scott Walker forced on school districts as part of his anti-public employee “budget repair” bill haven’t really “fixed” much in Wisconsin’s school districts, unless you consider bigger class sizes, fewer teachers, and cuts to programs “fixing” things.

82% of the districts that responded for the DPI’s report indicated they lost personnel as opposed to last year, and nearly two thirds of the districts reported having cut teachers. What’s more, even the Kaukauna School District, which Gov. Walker and his right-wing corporate supporters have touted as a “budget repair” bill success story, is at the top of the list in losing teachers and increasing student-to-teacher ratio.

Speaking of increased student to teacher ratios, more than 2/5ths of the districts reported increased class sizes in their elementary schools, which is especially striking to me given the importance of a quality education early in a student’s life. However, elementary school students weren’t alone in feeling the pain of Gov. Walker’s assault on education in Wisconsin, as over half of the districts responding to the DPI’s report indicated they had cut class offerings in “career and tech” areas, and nearly half in art, music and physical education, choosing those cuts over “Core” areas (38%), foreign language (27%) and AP (22%).

As usual Vato you missed the LIE read slowly. Whoo was FORCED to have WEA trust. The eagle scout mentioned that districts were forced to carry WEA trust. I live in Janesville whom hasnt had WEA and had been self funded for over a decade and there is over 30 million in fund 10. So who is the fear mongering cut and paster?
BTW I see a lot of comments like "expecting to save" after the numbers. Does that make them set in stone savings? Or are those the projections that you and the rest of your partisans enjoy to use for election purposes.
Maybe you should call UW-Whitewater and ask them how many students are deciding to leave the education field. Instead of posting lists of conservative districts who will now be paying their teachers considerably less. Thats a way to make good things happen right?
WHy dont you talk about the Milton school district vato? They conceeded to all of act 10 and are still making huge cuts and laying off teachers.
Remember there are 425 districts in the state you nincompoop.

http://www.wxow.com/story/18621056/la-cr...

http://www.marshfieldnewsherald.com/arti...

I just watched Governor Walker lie on TV about districts being forced to use "one insurance company" absolute and complete lie. JEA has been self funded for years and has saved Janesville MILLIONS of tax dollars. Anyone care to comment on that particular lie, since right here in Janesville we have realized tens of millions in savings?

What do you call it when city councils or other government bodies work out TIF agreements and forgivale loan contracts and other taxpayer paid hand-outs to individuals or business associations behind closed doors? Those are collective bargaining agreements in the purest sense. They are not in the Constitution nor are they a God-given right.

Please don't confuse attitudes towards compulsory public school teachers with attitudes towards public collective bargaining.
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Public collective bargaining is regularly used to raise the salaries and benefits of government workers beyond inflation and beyond the taxpayer's ability to pay. This is why only 26 states have public sector collective bargaining laws similar to what Wisconsin used to have.
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State employees in 12 states have no legal right to collective bargaining.
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All of this confirms public collective bargaining a creation of government, not a human right.
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We love the good & great public school teachers, but despise public collective bargaining, just like FDR.

I don't know where this lynch mob mentality against teachers got started, but many seem to have jumped on the bandwagon. It is insane to even try to imagine the logic behind those of you who appear to hate teachers and/or their wages/benefits. Apparently you would rather follow the teachings of a known liar bent on improving his status in his political party. I understand there are those ignorant enough to blindly follow their party of choice regardless of the stupidity of doing so. What's hard to understand is why you would want to put the futures of your children and grandchildren at risk while supporting a known liar. Those of you who choose this path deserve what is coming, the rest of us don't.

"I also heard that they are hiring teachers over in Dubai if anyone is interested. I do not know the wages but it may be worth looking at if you are fed up with the Wisconsin system."-gmretirednow @3:44pm

Hey gmretirednow, I heard that the standard of living in Somalia would be very high for a GM worker that's retired with his insurance and pension paid for life. That is if anyone is interested and they are fed up with public education for all reguardless of income, like Wisconsin has. You know, it may be worth looking at.

"Each family with children in public school should be charged $1,000 for each child they have in school each year. This would be more fair for those with no kids at all or those elderly who already paid taxes for their kids to be educated."-gmretirednow @3:29pm

So more or less, 'you got yours, so screw everone else.' You're retired from where? Oh I see.

vatoloco, glad to hear you attempting to increase awareness of poverty in America. The 2011 Human Development Index report (standard of living) has the USA in 4th place worldwide. But when adjusted for the inequality gaps that exist in the country, the USA drops to 23rd place. In other words, the USA has very large inequality gaps. [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Devel... ]

gmretired -- you missed the whole point -- the current push to destroy public education is not the Wisconsin way.

gmretirednow - who paid for your education, your children, grandchildren, etc. We all pay for everyone. A better educated society has better living standards. We can see that even in the US. Look at Mississippi or Alabama. I have been there and it is not a place for me. So, gmretirednow, it might be better for you to go to Mississippi or Alabama and keep the teachers here.

I also heard that they are hiring teachers over in Dubai if anyone is interested. I do not know the wages but it may be worth looking at if you are fed up with the Wisconsin system.

great idea to be able to afford public education. Each family with children in public school should be charged $1,000 for each child they have in school each year. So if a school has 800 kids, there is $800,000 to run the school for the year. If people want to have lots of kids, they simply pay more. I am wondering if there is a per child number that Janesville uses to educate the kids. This would be more fair for those with no kids at all or those elderly who already paid taxes for their kids to be educated.

RAF - I looked it up. In the sense that the laws and elected leaders are taking advantage of weaker people, I stand by my term. In the literal definition on Miriam W' I can see your disagreement. It is just the term that best fits how these laws benefit the people in power and harm children, disabled, public workers, underemployed, etc. Literally, you are correct, but I am stalled trying to find a better word. Suggestions?

Walker budget not balanced. What has he been doing with all the money? Yes, I know democrates have done this stuff too. The problem here is that he has stated the budget is balanced in every ad and it isn't. Once again he is not telling the truth. If he is soooo fiscally concervative then this shouldn't be happening. Also, the budget shouldn't have increased. Where is the spending cut mentality.
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http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/...

Killandgrill wrote: Stubby:
Our schools are fine. Come out of your cave and look around. Don't just read the bull crap here and in the politically motivated newspapers. They are just fine!

----

Sure! They are just fine....as long as you don't consider the staff reductions, layoffs, increased class sizes and cut programs...they are just fine! Test results are still good!

----

The real effects of these drastic changes to schools have not been seen yet, but they will be in the future. That's the point. We need to stop the damage now before it becomes severe. School are"just fine" now only because of the awesome teachers and staff that are struggling to hold things together on a shoestring. Oh- unless the whole strategy is to make the damage severe enough so that Walker and his friends can point to the "failing schools" and move to turn them over to private businesses.

-----

Kill....I probably spend as much or more time in a school as any non-teacher. I see exactly what is going undone because of state-imposed budget cuts. I see the overcrowded classrooms. I have kids in school, and I am there all the time, so don't even think about telling me I don't know what is going on. The only cave I live in is cave of despair that Walker has created. Vote Barrett, people.

The really sad part of this whole election/recall and collective bargaining issue is that none of this has anything to do with education. It has nothing to do with our children. Look at the comments on this blog. Look at those who are either attacking corporations or making teachers or unions to be the equivolent of the economic anti-christ.
This issue has nothing to do with kids, education, and the quality of life in our community. It is mean spirited, partisan political power struggles using and pitting the working class against business owner and taxpayer against taxpayer. I will not defend Mr. Sodemann or any school board member because Janesville elected them. it the community feels that Mr. Sodemann or anyone else should serve on the school board, then the voters make that choice. It is the responsibility of those electors to also hold their elected individuals accountable for what they say or do with the public trust they were given.
As for the recall process, it is very difficult to recall a statewide candidate. heck it's difficult to recall a local offical. But the option of recall must be protected and serves as part of the responsibility of citizens. Just because one group disagrees with a person being recalled, the right of the voting public need to have this tool to use (the same goes for impeachment procedure/processes).
I made a choice to leave the Janesville School District for numerous reasons. The Beloit School Board is very focused on the taxpayer but they have passed a referendum to improve the very outdated schools, they have expanded curriculum and classes to students, they have done a very nice job with assuring that the district continues to grow and improve test scores (which is happening). The administration and school board value the teachers and staff. They have also made the tough decisions of reorganization and closing of some schools and have made the decisions that elected bodies should make and not postpone or delay the decisions that need to be made.
The Beloit School Board has developed into a board focused on the kids and education and although they hold some individual partisan ideas, their actions are based on the benefit to the community,kids,and a true concern for the taxpayer with reasonable budgeting issues instead of slash, burn, and place blame on others. I'm sure this will spark a whirlwind of anti-Beloit/Janesville comments but the Janesville School Board should look South and see how to cooperate and balance the needs of all in a community when it comes to education and not engage in conservative/liberal political goals but what is in the interest of education and future.

kidsfirst before you can begin to have rational discourse on positions you must first come to the understanding of what is true, what is rhetoric, and what is just emotional dishonesty. I think you are trying to be reasonable but at times your emotions conflict your reason, like when you claim laws are bullying.

Thank goodness I see some sane people posting here. People who spend 4-8 years educating themselves to be teachers, in many cases a thankless job lately, deserve those amounts and more.

killngrill -- if the copy paste has no disclaimer, the readers will assume the views match your own stance. Your post today at 10:15 is in quotation marks, but appear to be your views. I was responding to the content of that post.
~~~~~~
Regarding medication to treat mental difficulties, no shame in that. Thanks to modern medicine we have some tools to combat the influence of our genetics or current pressures. However, people who fit the profile I posted do not think that they have any issues that need to be addressed. Everybody else is messed up. Therefore, nothing personal.

Plus, Scott Walker increased government spending by $1.1 billion, that too is sacrilegious to the so-called Tea Party. But they don't care because Walker's budget is ideologically calculated to defeat the American social compact and create a framework for the privatization of public property and power. There's a war going on in America to destroy it from the inside out. We'll be all living soon inside the novel Atlas Shrugged.

youkillme (and others):
Walker did not teach our kids "that if you lie, cheat, steal and plot, they too could be governor someday"; that was former Gov. Jim Doyle!!!
*

Stubby:
Our schools are fine. Come out of your cave and look around. Don't just read the bull crap here and in the politically motivated newspapers. They are just fine!

Killandgrill - and others who like the report from Suffolk - OF COURSE the cuts have saved money. Cut a billion from education and we saved money...duh! My question has been, since we had a 3 billion dollar deficit and have "balanced" the budget, why haven't taxpayers saved 3 billion dollars instead of only 1 billion? Of course...because the other 2 billion went to corporations and to fund Scotty's pet projects! Tea party folks should be outraged at this, but instead they heap praises on Scott for taking $2 billion from their pockets and giving it to the corporations.

----

By cutting schools first and most, Walker showed us his priorities and his values. That's why I voted for Barrett.

Scott Walker has taught our children that if you lie, cheat, steal and plot, they too could be governor someday. Wow, John Adams was the antithesis of Scott Walker and his virulent supporters.

“Wisdom and knowledge, as well as virtue, diffused generally among the body of the people being necessary for the preservation of their rights and liberties; and as these depend on spreading the opportunities and advantages of education in various parts of the country, and among the different orders of the people, it shall be the duty of legislators and magistrates in all future periods of this commonwealth to cherish the interests of literature and the sciences, and all seminaries of them, especially the university at Cambridge, public schools, and grammar schools in the towns; to encourage private societies and public institutions, rewards and immunities, for the promotion of agriculture, arts, sciences, commerce, trades, manufactures, and a natural history of the country; to countenance and inculcate the principles of humanity and general benevolence, public and private charity, industry and frugality, honesty and punctuality in their dealings, sincerity, good humor, and all social affections, and generous sentiments among the people. ”
― John Adams, Declaration of Independence, Constitution of the United States of America, Bill of Rights and Constitutional Amendments

kidsfirst:
It is very sad what you stated in your last post, as I do have mental issues. I am taking medications for such and your statement hurt. I do not lie here, I just copy facts from newspapers around the U.S. for individuals to contemplate. Sorry.

kidsfirst:
Very well stated and do not get me wrong, I respect your views and many others on here!

killngrill - if you cannot succeed with lies, then try threats. great sign as to your morals. Guess you could fit the profile, too, but the recovery rate from this mental condition is dismal because people who have these issues cannot recognize that anything is wrong with their views. . .

killngrill -- you are correct that the descriptor fits politicians. However it has never been so blatantly obvious as it is with Scott Walker.
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In 18 months time, he has been recorded again and again lying or suggesting inappropriate actions -- remember planting some trouble-makers in the crowd? Dianne Hendricks, manipulated numbers, insisting that removal of collective bargaining was necessary and then having to admit to a federal panel that it had no fiscal impact? The unions offered to meet the state on the financial concerns in exchange for maintaining their collective bargaining. The savings would have been the same-- maybe more. Locals with bargained contracts might have opened their contracts to make the financial concessions if there had not been so much more at stake.
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The facts do not support your position. Seems like too many people cling so hard to what they want to be true, they cannot see how much SW has misled and lied to this state about.
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Take away his $30-40 million ad campaign, where would he stand? No he has the financial resources and backers to force brainwashing via media. We have truth and grassroots.

"Many labor-friendly figures have long understood that collective bargaining rights for public employees are illegitimate. "All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service," a pro-labor Franklin D. Roosevelt said in 1937. "It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management."

"Somebody needs to purchase a giant mirror for liberals to look at before they go to sleep at night. Then these liberals need to gaze into that mirror and ask themselves if any policy position is so important that it justifies lying, cheating and destabilizing the political system.

The left has spent millions of dollars trying to overturn a fairly won election. That money could have been used to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, get people off of drugs, provide more money for schools, and support the many poor people the left claims to care about."
*
"They are the poison."

"Walker and Kleefisch must be allowed to serve out their terms through 2014. If this does not happen, the consequences will be severe. It will be open season on every Democrat in America where recall elections are allowed. There will be no peace. We will become like Europe where governments fall at the whim of disgruntled individuals. Politicians will be fearful to govern knowing they have zero margin for making unpopular decisions"

rocksolid -- re "What more can I do?" Take down signs supporting the Gov. who began attacking public employees under false pretenses, and vote for Tom Barrett and Mahlon Mitchell. Walker started the divisive attack on citizens last February. We need our Board supporting education. I don't like the property tax levels any more than anyone else. We have been trying for 10 years to bring changes to funding for education. Where does our SchBd stand on that? How are you influencing the process to improve funding so that the burden does weigh so heavily on property owners but is shared more broadly by businesses and industries who are benefitting from educated employee pools? What can you do? Do an "About Face"---Get behind Tom Barrett and do it today.

"A study by Boston's Suffolk University shows that the Walker-backed Act 10, "which curbed collective bargaining for most unionized public employees, in the whole has saved taxpayers more than $1 billion," according to WisconsinReporter.com. The website reported:

What the analysis found is that without the law, which in part requires covered public employees to contribute more to their benefits and holds wage increases to the rate of inflation, Badger State governments would have been forced to raise taxes or make deep job cuts to meet budget expenses."

kidsfirst:
You describe EVERY politician in the United States with your comment, not just Scott Walker!

This attack on teachers is precisely aimed at de-moralizing some and enraging voters against teachers.

I think the intent will backfire -- This recall election is critical for the future of our state: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/24/ma...

RAF & fedup -- you are literate, able to read and write, how do you continue to stand behind a position that is so clearly amoral? What is your platform? He has been recorded in multiple ways/places lying and misleading people. How many times/ways will it take before you see that he is a great schmoozer and charmer on the surface, but devoid of real integrity and character. Read this and honestly reflect on Walker's words and actions as a public official. The parallels are amazing. http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Killandgrill - thanks for clearing that up. Your shouting certainly outweighs all of Walkers actions. I stand corrected [/sarcasm]

pot meet kettle

Walker is NOT anti-teacher!!
*
He is PRO-WISCONSIN.
-----------------------------------
*Walker, Walker, Walker, Walker!!!
************************************************************************
MOVING THE GREAT STATE OF WISCONSIN "FORWARD"
****************************************************************
FINALLY; FORWARD ------->
*********************************************************

"Share the Pain"? I don't see any of our representatives or Big Money sharing the pain!

(This comment was removed by the 90% of teachers that this flier didnt expose)

(This comment was removed by the radical school board president)

This whole "share the pain" meme that Sodemann and his ilk keep repeating is 100% socialism, just on the red side of the balance sheet instead of the black. You know darn well that if teachers asked the private sector to "share the wealth", you could actually sit at your computer and hear the heads of people like Bill Sodemann popping. But they act like it's perfectly reasonable to ask them to share the pain. You want public employees to share in the pain by taking away collective bargaining - no problem. But then in return, index their potential raises to something like salary growth data instead of limiting them to CPI increases at the entry level teacher salary. You (Bill) and your cronies have capped the top end and pulled out the safety net from the bottom end (which was the one good thing teachers had going - the pay isn't that good, but the benefits made it worthwhile). So now what we have accomplished is making teaching a profession that no high school or college kid in their right mind would want to pursue, so that in 15 years, we have a teacher shortage, our public schools are suffering, and one of Bill Sodemann's kids can be the school board president trying to shut down the JSD in favor of full privatization.

As Koch Brothers would say, "Beautiful, Patriots"

Ladies and gentlemen - I give you the president of our school board. Anti-teacher, anti-education. He supports, without reservation, a governor that has taken millions of dollars away from the schools that he has sworn to guide and protect. Come to the next Board meeting and demand his immediate removal as President.

The well placed billboard about Walker jobs at the GM plant was paid for by the WMC.

The well placed billboard about Walker jobs at the GM plant was paid for by the WMC.

Sodemann's comment should be an exhibit in the dictionary under "self-delusion".

Suppose Walker only had $1 million instead of $25 million to spend in this campaign. Wonder if the polls would be different? BTW who paid for the billboards asking us to call and thank Gov. Walker for jobs? Anybody know?

Bill said - “I know the Governor and he is not the person that many of you are making him out to be. Walker is straighforward, honest..” Oh really…….if his actions of quick meetings some which did not meet open meeting laws as you well know (I know the interpretation said it was up to them since they wrote the law), dropping the “bomb”, the destructive content of his conversations with the fake Koch brother, his manipulations of job creation numbers, his selling himself to the highest bidder around the US, his false implication that so much money was coming into the state from outside while he is taking in 25-50 times as much, his lying to congress and being caught doing it, his earning the distinction in college that he was not fit for heading the ASMU due to his direct actions, his hiring of so many criminals in his previous job, and the list could go on and on…if this is your definition of “straight forward and honest”, then you and I definitely have a difference of opinion. Politics and friendship is one thing but facing reality is another as it does reflect on you as both a person and an elected official. Is this how you deal with issues in the JSD also?

Now, let me say that I do admire you for putting your name out here. Whether it was a good idea or not I will leave up to you. I do think it is important to allow people in the Janesville School district to get to know more of what is behind the thought process of our leaders – whether we agree or disagree (which I do). It is also a good idea for you to better understand the feeling of your constituents about your views, your actions and the thought processes that drive them.

"PLUS many additional credits,at your own expense"
so we should also pay for their education too?
When they pay for more eductaion they make more money!

"

vatoloco
May 23, 2012 at 12:51 p.m.
Suggest removal

MGD

There is plenty of money in education. We just have a problem of utilizing it through a balanced approach.

It isn't a money problem it's a people problem...."

good point. for 70 million for 2 high schools here we should get lots of DR's right?? You know all the millions spent in the cafe will make you super smart!!!

kidsfirst
May 22, 2012 at 10:25 p.m.
Suggest removal

I know a teacher who left GM to teach and has to work a second job to make ends meet. He says it is worth the loss in pay because he loves the difference he can make in children's futures. The pay cut was hard, but he is making it."

Guess he better make the "ends" closer together.
If you cannot live on $40 or more plus part time maybe you need a teacher to teach you some finance and budgeting.

happycamper.
believe what you like!

It is hard for me to believe that this Soderman character is on the school board. He is very pro Walker, that makes him anti-teacher, and anti public employee, and anti middle class. These traits are not good for education and not good for the students and the educational environment. He has shown here today that he has an ego the size of township, he is antagonistic and thinks he needs to have the last word on things. (Childishness)

Vato as usual keeps whining about education in the USA and separating it by state , because that is where youll start to find the problems. Wisconsin has been consistently at or near the top not only nationally but worldwide, yet it just so happens that the states that drag down the US rankings are the ones that continually cut education spending and have right to work laws on the books, interesting isnt it?

I'm not going to get into denigrating someone who is posting here with their identity but at the same time, that transparency adds no credibility to the content. But for someone who owns a business as Mr. Sodemann does, I can't believe he would keep an employee he cannot trust and is a serial liar simply because the employee punches in and out for lunch on time. Proudly defending someone like "divide and conquer" Walker is also very telling of ones political attitude and personal values. It's not just a slogan, it's his strategy. Sorry to hear that from you Mr. Sodemann. Even though I don't agree with your politics, I'm now disppointed in your priciples. Good luck.

I also assume that you saw the requirement to strip away the bargaining rights also even though Article 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights identifies the ability to organize trade unions as a fundamental human right? Nice person to have in charge. Now we better understand the thought process behind the person as they get questioned on their stances as the facade of the office is stripped away.

just as I thought - words of support for the person using the divide and conquer strategy while not addressing your support or disgust over the use of it. In doing so, you appear to support it. At least I tell those who represent me when I disapprove of their actions. In not telling them, I condone those actions. I know you better now and I am not impressed with your leadership when it comes to making things better in our communities. When people rule using fear and bullying or will not intervene when it is being used, they do not have a good place in history.

Bill Sodemann said, "Walker is straighforward, honest and making the tough decisions that had to be made even though he knew that it could hurt him politically."

Straightforward and honest. Those words will more than likely come back to haunt you.

fordfan: I proudly support Governor Walker and his reforms. I have a sign supporting him in my yard. The old system had to be changed for the BENEFIT of education. I know you don't agree with me on this but I have stated for years that the balance in total compensation between public and private sector employees has gotten out of whack. And just because I think that things such as 16 total sick days, up to 8 years of early retirement (10 for administrators) etc. needs to be looked at does not make me anti-teacher/administrator. When my employees and I had to endure substantial cuts over the past few years they did not think I did not appreciate them. They understood that changes had to be made.
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I don't think it was radical to ask for contributions towards retirement or health insurance. I don't think it was radical to allow districts the power to choose their own health provider. (This did not apply to Janesville but many other districts were essentially locked into the WEAC plan because of the contracts). I don't think it is radical to allow districts to set up work rules that can be more efficient, customer friendly, cost effective etc. That is how most businesses are operated. I could go on and on but the reality is that the changes will give us more flexibility to deliver a better product.
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I know the Governor and he is not the person that many of you are making him out to be. Walker is straighforward, honest and making the tough decisions that had to be made even though he knew that it could hurt him politically. The changes certainly could have been presented better but the old system was not sustainable and would lead to either huge tax increases, which would hurt job growth or huge layoffs which would lesson the ability to deliver needed services in addition to the harm it would do to those families experiencing the layoff.
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I am done commenting so that will allow any of you to get the last word in.

Bill Sodemann

Bill Sodemann - it is one thing to say you are against over the top rhetoric and another to show it. Based on what I have observed over the years, I am quite sure that you were a rock solid supporter and voted for the people who are implementing this “divide and conquer” strategy. You can say what you want, but your overt actions may well be different. If you want better focus and improvement in school funding, put up a Barrett sign in you front lawn. If you think public workers have a right to collectively bargain, put up a Barrett sign in your yard or better yet, write an endorsement stating such. If you think this divide and conquer strategy is wrong, put up a Barrett sign in your yard and write and endorsement as to why you are do it. None of these will happen I am sure, as you have what you voted for and you expect your employees to lay back and enjoy it. So we are now divided. When we are no longer divided and no longer object to the way we are treated as employees in the schools, as public service employees and elsewhere in the community, we will then be conquered. I do not go that easily. I will be watching for your Barrett endorsement in some manner. Or maybe a letter to the editor that this divide and conquer strategy is so very wrong and needs to stop or you will be turning against Walker and others who use it even though you have supported them in past.

You can say what you want, but actions are what really matter. Until we get leaders who will speak out against their own Political Party and the tactics they tolerate from those they support, this assault on workers will continue and will expand. Don’t expect the victims of this to go quietly. You know as well as I that elected officials put more weight on hearing from other elected officials vs a common citizen (a state representative told me this years ago). So Bill Sodemann, if you really want this to stop, put some action behind your words. I am quite sure this will not happen but I hope I am wrong.

Shopierehuh - Thanks for sharing that with me! It won't be long now. With our new education reforms we will be like them in a heartbeat! Move over Mississippi because here comes Wississippi!

"We sure will be lucky to have more southern influence as Walker recrutes the help from South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal. This is SICK I don't want Wisconsin to be like South Carolina or Lousiana. I want Wisconsin to be WISCONSIN!"-Proud_Badger@ 9:10am

Hey PB, we might even be able to devolve into a place like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb62fpsyh...

MH - Once again you have your facts wrong. I wrote a long analysis of the first flier. Among the things I mentioned about that flier was the use of "over the top" or "inflammatory" language etc.
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When I was sent the blog from this particular teacher (Steve) about the flier - I shared with him the analysis that I had done. I also said that I thought he was doing some of the same thing when he used the "KKK" for example as a comparison.

In the second flier, I even singled out Steve (the teacher you are referring to) on the radio and praised him saying that although he and I did not share the same political view that he was a great teacher and kept his politics out of the classroom. This was in response to the silly "Radical Teacher Exemption Form" that was at the bottom of the flier.

If anyone wishes to send me your email address, I will send you the Word Doc of the analysis that I did.

I have done 4 TV interviews and a radio show about this.

What else could you possibly want?

Bill Sodemann

Here is something that outdoors lovers should read before they vote. This is a link to an article about the privatization of public lands in Wisconsin by Walker and his handlers. Those of you who hunt and fish, those who use the county forests, the state forests, the water access, boat launches, the hiking and walking trails, the state campgrounds should be concerned and read this and think about it before voting on June 5.

In Texas there is very little public land. If you do not have several thousand dollars for a deer lease, you do not deer hunt. Texas is where Walker's "deer czar" is from, he intends to implement Texas style deer hunting in Wisconsin.

http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/featur...

edsci - don't even go there. Who cares what teachers, police men, fire fighters, snow plow drivers, engineers, factory workers, waitresses, nurses, etc make. We all make so little compared to the people making us fight with each other. Also our jobs and skills are all un-related to each other. But everyone of us is important to society. All of this crazy talk and fighting is part of the GOP plan of Divide and Conquer. WE ALL NEED TO STAND UP FOR OURSELVES NOT WALKER OR THE DIVIDE AND CONQUERS LIKE DIANE HENDRICKS (Beloit wealthy billionaire).

kidsfirst stated "They rank the average salaries for every state. WI ranks 28th out of 50 states." which was in the news. I find it amazing that Wisconsin is ranked so well in education. 1st to 3rd in Midwest in many catagories and 1st in US graduation rate. http://badgerstat.org/dashboard/
Well we can watch these numbers tank as we try to be more like the south.
.
We sure will be lucky to have more southern influence as Walker recrutes the help from South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal. This is SICK I don't want Wisconsin to be like South Carolina or Lousiana. I want Wisconsin to be WISCONSIN!

I wish people would realize that this type of stuff does nothing productive. I don't care if you are a democrat, republican, libertarian, or independent. This type of hate and attacks do nothing but demean all of us in this community. Problems are solved by sitting down and discussing our differences and finding a solution that works. Attacking business owners for them attempting to be successful and attacking and making teachers the disease of society does nothing but, in my opinion, stalls economic growth and divides the good we all seek.
It is my hope that voters will now be engaged and demand accountability from elected leaders and if they lack the vision for a future or engage is unproductive attacks (regardless of political party) that they are voted out of office. I'm tired and I know many others that have watched leaders at every level degrade into partisan and mean spirited people. Lets support each other, disagree, and work toward solutions.

Why do public teachers make three times what other hard working people do? I can see 1.5 times as much but three times is just crazy. I know they all work hard but I think all these public jobs have to get in line with the private sector jobs so the cost of living will come down for all of us.

Bill Sodemann called "lie" about my comment which is removed. I apologize that my words were short. The long story is, when this group did the same thing in March, one teacher criticized about this nasty flier in his blog. And then Bill Somemann sent an email to people, criticized this teacher. So to me it sounds like Sodemann is defending this group. At least not upset teacher's side.

kidsfirst:
"They rank the average salaries for every state. WI ranks 28th out of 50 states."
*
So Wisconsin needs to be ranked 1st out of 50?
*

kidsfirst:
If you spent just half of the time that you spend on here mentoring our children, the world would be a much better place!!

Another trollish post by the poo_koch.

More of the great left wing stereotyping...

"It is called stereotyping", you mean like your other comment "...I blamed the conservatives for is wanting to rape, pillage and destroy government for the profits of the wealthy rather than make it work for all of us."

Oh thats right, it is different when liberals do it.

vato - care to comment on this? "You seem to go right to the point that if you see one teacher that you do not like, one program that is not successful, one piece of the curriculum that you do not like, then they are all worthless. It is called stereotyping - do you advocate for that also?"

The only thing I blamed the conservatives for is wanting to rape, pillage and destroy government for the profits of the wealthy rather than make it work for all of us. I totally 100% stand by that accusation. Unfortunately, conservatives will hurt right along with the rest of us when government functions are all privatized. But you can’t tell them that as it does not fit their tea bag filled brains.

another class act by a bunch of freedom loving patriots, no doubt... do the right thing June 5th!

Vato - I wrote this before I saw your updates on going to public schools "Conservatives basically hate the US for the opportunities that it provides once they have achieved their desired level of success by using government resources." You enjoyed your education benefits but now want to take them away from future generations. Maybe I didn't like paying my share for your education (I am older than you are I am quite sure) as you obviously do not appreciate it, but I did it anyway so that you would have the opportunity for doing better than previous generations – others did that for me. It is called investing in OUR future.

You seem to go right to the point that if you see one teacher that you do not like, one program that is not successful, one piece of the curriculum that you do not like, then they are all worthless. It is called stereotyping - do you advocate for that also?

13 years? 15 years? 17 years?

vato - did a little more investigation into the author of your charts. Here it is everyone:

MICHAEL BRENDAN DOUGHERTY
He is a contributing editor to The American Conservative where he worked as an Associate Editor from 2006-2009. He is the winner of a 2009-2010 Phillips Fellowship.

The Phillips Foundation
Is a non-profit organization founded in 1990 to advance constitutional principles, a democratic society and a vibrant free enterprise system. In 1994, The Robert Novak Journalism Fellowship Program was launched to award grants to working print and online journalists supportive of American culture and a free society. In 1999, The Foundation launched its Ronald Reagan College Leaders Scholarship Program to provide renewable cash awards to college undergraduates who demonstrate leadership on behalf of the cause of freedom, American values and constitutional principles.

100% conservative and we know the goal of the conservatives are to privatized and profitize education knowing full well that once public education is eradicated, it will be impossible to get it back. Remember - Government so small that we can drown it in a bath tub. Conservatives basically hate the US for the opportunities that it provides once they have achieved their desired level of success by using government resources.

Wisconsinites - You're card carrying idiots if you listen to vatoloco. He is an advocate for ignorance (but profits) in education.

Where is the chart that talks about student quality control as they enter the education system? Where is the chart that talks about parental support for education? Where is the chart that factors in the denigration of our education system by society right in front the students? These charts were taken using raw data by the Politics Editor at Business Insider and did not present data that was further broken down and reviewed (if it is even available). The clear message is that spending more does not equal better education so spending less will help. Good for simple minds I guess and pretty effective.

Question for you vato...did you get public or private education and how many years?

So vato, you posted "There is plenty of money in education. We just have a problem of utilizing it through a balanced approach.

It isn't a money problem it's a people problem...."

What data are you using to back this up with? Or is it just your opinion based on what?

killngrill -- The McIver Institute is funded by right wing donars with the sole purpose of undermining public education. Ultimately the goal is to take over quality education for all children, privatize it for profit of corporations. The ultimate strategy will destroy equal opportunity regardless of race or economic status.

here is another site with unbiased information. They rank the average salaries for every state. WI ranks 28th out of 50 states: http://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-sal...

thediplomat: "Gotta love the people that come out of the woodwork to complain about how much someone else makes, but is too lazy to go to school to get a degree that will ensure they get the pay they "think" they deserve. Good for the teachers who are making a decent wage!"

I agree with you. But, the part of going to school and getting a degree does not ensure you will be getting a better wage. Especially today when there are very little jobs to be had. You have many people who have degrees and are working in lesser paying jobs that has nothing to do with what they have a degree in. Sad.

helge1939, it's never regular members of the Tea Party that want their own wages, benefits or Social Security reduced, they're taxed enough - it's everybody else they want to claw down to, and I quote, "join the real world."

Could someone post a copy somewhere that you can read, the copy on the Madison paper
you cant read , to poor of a scan

I know some one in the teaparty & have not heard that person offer to have his retirement reduced

thediplomat - You are wrong. Some people shouldn't go on to school. It isn't right for them and that is ok. It doesn't mean that they are lazy. We need people doing all kinds of work and all those jobs don't require a College degree. Some can't afford College and that will get worse with Walker. Tuition will be going up because the state is funding it less and less. Soon UW will be a private system. Watch...

thediplomat - None of us should be fighting with each other. Teachers aren't making much. Either are Engineers. I know because I am one. Either is the waiter or snowplow driver. All important jobs in society and all have value. We need to concentrate our efforts against the "Creator" not God but the "Job Creators" because they aren't creating anything. We the lower class and middle class are in the range of $30,000 to $100,000. Yes that may seem like a big range but it is nothing compared to the Widow Hendricks of Wisconsin or the Babcock Outdoor CEO or Prent CEO, etc. Think about it. We need to help each other and have the "Creators" pay their share for education, roads, police, firefighters, etc. because they aren't using their money for jobs unless you call Walker Propaganda Ads work for Wisconsin.

Gotta love the people that come out of the woodwork to complain about how much someone else makes, but is too lazy to go to school to get a degree that will ensure they get the pay they "think" they deserve. Good for the teachers who are making a decent wage!

Now you're talking Proud_Badger. Here's the thing and much of it began with the Tea Party.

Someone once asked me what is the purpose of cutting wages and benefits in the public sector. According to small government right-wing engineers, not enough people have been facing the same burden of government as Tea Party members have been crying about. By crunching down a living wage payroll sector such as teachers and other public employees while simultaneously maintaining the same spending government spending levels or increasing spending they will in effect create a new population of wage earners who will join the taxed enough already population because although the same tax rates apply, a greater portion of the once content public sector will now have smaller salaries to maintain their lifestyle. The GOP are banking on having the whole country rebel against the cost of government, but only because of the small paychecks that were imposed on them in both private and public sector. In the meantime, the income of those bankrolling this scheme is growing 300% to 400%. That's part of the GOP scheme.

I don't get it. Why are people who are making $30,000 fighting with people making $70,000 and vis versa? This doesn't make sense. I believe it is the plan of the GOP and the "Divide and Conquer" method. They (the wealthy) are just sitting there and laughing. We shouldn't be fighting with each other. We should be helping each other. We need to end this attack on the middle and lower class. It is time that the wealthy contribute to society as a whole and yes that means education too! Check this out. Walker is going to make the rich richer. Great!
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http://host.madison.com/ct/business/biz_...
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If you like deer hunting you don't want to stick with Walker either... Read this...
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http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/featur...
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The list goes on. WE MUST STICK TOGETHER AND SAVE WISCONSIN!

*Near sighted people like yourself see someone making more money than you - and instantly want to cut them down to your level instead of improving your situation*

Actually, that sounds a lot like the OWS crowd and most of the left-leaning members of Congress.

Whats more go to the opensecrets.org website and find out who owns your local reresentative and to what tune. Asking for respomsible government while supporting one set of ignorant fools while chastising the other is dumb. They all have their masters , every one of them, its just which masters you want to own you and your line of thought.
Vato- you are aware of this thing called inflation right? Its a principal where the cost of everything increases. That in itself makes the cost of any publicly run program go up.Having "enough" money in education as vato puts it means that with inflation you spend more money on products and in turn there is less money for salaries. Not to mention that health care costs are rising exponentially faster than the rate of inflation, and that is somehow the teachers fault too? Janesville is a self funded district and you people dump on the radical teachers all the time, yet by CHOOSING to be self funded FAR before the the Walker gestapo was in charge they have saved this district tens of millions in taxpayer dollars that have been convenientl;y stuffed away into a fund 10 balance. A fund that goes largely ignored by the board and most if not all conservatives on these boards. Where is your fake outrage there? Oh wait thats the free market insurance system screwing the taxpayer. Outrage from conservatives? Non existent.

Just so we are clear the WEA trust that conservatives say is so incredibly expensive and damning for Wisconsin, is a CHOICE for districts , they are NOT forced to do it as so many would have you believe.

I meant absolutely not appositely. Sorry I had a teacher that was under paid....

*Schulte said if she receives any of the requests, "they're going in the trash."*

I'm sure this is where most of the concerns raised by parents end up, either physically or mentally.

*"But if these people are this concerned with this, why the anonymity?*

Said by someone who probably supported the people camping outside legislators homes in V for Vendetta masks. Hypocrite.

Vatoloc, you are appositely right he did make billionaires without a college degree. Now name 20 other people who have done the same??? I can name hundreds of teachers with college degrees. He also made billions in a union and not a right to work state. If he can do that without a college degree then why can’t any other business? Here’s the really sad party, somebody is worth over a billion dollars and they feel they need to make more and pay less to workers…..

RetiredAirForce: "dkush it is all public information, here is only one of the many different places to look.

http://www.opm.gov/oca/12tables/index.as...

Am I missing something here? I see pay by grade levels but I don't see the names of our representatives and their pay. I also don't see what kind of pension or healthcare benefits or other perks or allowances they get. If you want to compare apples to oranges, we should have the total package and the names listed also.

When we attack education, what will be left that makes America great? Some rich people behind fences?

Scooter is running against teachers, and if he wins they lose. There's never been anything like it.

I'm done here. I have came to the conclusion that most of the people that post here probably have the reading comprehension level of a 2nd grader.

How am I complaining about how others are paid? I think teachers deserve a good salary. We shouldn't be making cuts in education. The less educated people are the easier it is to control them. What a great deal for the big wigs in Washington!

"Many people are still stuck in the 9-5 mentality. That was gone many years ago. People these days work many more hours or multiple jobs. Its the norm. Its reality." Should have considered a union perhaps where you had a say in what your working conditions? You say there are laws protecting you....how are they working out for you and why are you whining now?

Then what's the problem? If others feel they are being cheated out of compensation - do something about it, instead of whining how well others are paid.

I do. I work for a school! Wahahah

Despicable community-destroying propaganda.

Does anybody know anybody who gets paid fairly for their work?

Over what? Pointing out that people are completely ignorant when it comes to politicians and whack bag stunts like this trying to knock people that make an honest buck and are assets to our society.

Members of a certain secret society, of which we are all aware of..... I think their pointy white hoods shrunk to tight in the wash.

MGD -- You mean your mom the teacher has to work as hard as the rest of us---- OMG..

Many people are still stuck in the 9-5 mentality. That was gone many years ago. People these days work many more hours or multiple jobs. Its the norm. Its reality. At least teachers have a 3 month recovery period every year. Most load up the kids for 1-2 weeks, drive them somewhere and work just as hard to make sure the kids have a fun vacation. I really dont care to hear how ANY one profession works harder than another. Get over it.

I think this flier points out that past union bargaining laws led to pay and benefit increases greater than the private sector over the years, while accountability, performance, and test scores declined, overall. We can all agree we'll gladly pay teachers $100k in salaries/benefits when our children are graduating from compulsory school prepared for a world economy.

@bebe- This is not a spin to another topic at all. The article is about Citizens for Responsible Government (CRG) and their committment to " responsible government" and their hate-filled flier that was distributed.My question was simply, where was the CRG's outrage when this happened. Do you think that Walker's appointment of the 27 year old was " responsible government". Fits in perfectly here.

Excerpt From bebe's earlier post-
" Remember the old saying re:"what goes around comes around?"
What's good for the goose is good for the gander"
Where are your comments on the 27 year old who made $61000 to $80000+ with full benefits and was appointed by Walker?
Why do teachers make too much again?

Come on "Citizens for Responsible Goverment" CRG radicals- answer my question about Walker placing an unqualified 27 year old in a high paying job, bumping him up to $81000 , then demoting him to a mere $61000 job when they found out he had a DUI. I thought you wanted responsible government.

I guess the fliers worked. They created controversey. I am just wondering why I am getting letters from Scott Walker asking for money to support him. Hasn't he raised more money than anyone else? Why is he begging for more money? How much money does he need?

Considering that being a teacher is probably one of the most important jobs in a community. I see no problem with them making that kind of money. We are paying them to teach our children. Some of that info on that list may be BS. My mother has a masters degree and has been teaching for around 35 years. She only makes around 40 thousand a year. All this stuff is designed to insight class warfare. While the scumbags in the State and Country run wild for their own personal gain. Open your eyes people! Your just pawns in a handful of rich peoples sick game.

This wasn't an argument about rich or poor - it's about competitive wages and attracting good teachers that have experience, education, and skills.

Near sighted people like yourself see someone making more money than you - and instantly want to cut them down to your level instead of improving your situation by doing the same thing the teachers did - go to school, work hard for years, rack up tens of thousands of dollars in student loans, and go out to teach our children.

If that's a radical... then I wholeheartedly approve.

How come you radical right wingers didn't protest when Walker hired the son of one of his contributors at $65000.00 per year then bumped him up to over $80000.00? Fortunately for Wisconsin, the news came out that this kid was unqualified, had a criminal record ( no shock there) and was demoted, I think back to $60000 +.
"Brian Deschane - the 27-year-old son of a prominent lobbyist - was demoted on Tuesday following a public uproar over his appointment to a cushy job earning $81,500 per year working in Gov. Scott Walker's administration."
How soon we forget.

I think they make too much for what they do.
-
http://crooksandliars.com/files/vfs/2012...

Why would Schulte bring up packaging food for Haiti? Who cares about Haiti and how is it rellevant?
-
So we pay the teachers, and they volenteer to help another country? I really dont care what they do in their free time... it means nothing.

The Tea Party obviously has too much time and money on their hands to undertake such a ridiculous task. Like Mr. Sodemann and other right-wing politicians, they should be putting their money into helping the disenfranchised poorer segments of Rock County. I'm tired of hearing their rhetoric and ravings.

For his "real money" if he wasn't Governor, Walker would call in the favors from his billionaire cronies. He would get a high paid job from them as a consultant, he would travel around and speak to mindless, radical conservative groups. They would cheer him madly, get aroused and he would be a lunatic fringe hero as long as he spread a message of hate and division.

MH is a liar.
-
I agree with the Gazette's editorial today saying that the "anonymous attack is disgraceful". Then the Gazette has forums like this that enable some of you cowards to lie and spew all kinds of crap - anonymously.

Non-Anonymously,
Bill Sodemann

Shopierhuh, a couple of great posts there, but I fear they will be like that tree that falls in the forest with nobody around - they won't be heard.

Scotty Walker has to even agree the teachers are under paid. Didn’t he recently say he could make some real money if he wasn’t Governor? Isn’t his pay as Governor’s pay about $130,000, almost double as a teacher! Apparently $130,000 isn’t real money… $74,000 is pathetic then. He doesn’t even have college degree; a lot of teachers have Master Degrees.

tmail, try madison.com - the WI State Journal had it in their story yesterday but it was hard to read because it was blurry and sideways. You can read it with some effort though.

Hard to believe this happened in Janseville and one has to go to the Madison paper to get the flyer. Scooped again, Gazette.

I see that some are complaining about GM Workers wages. Let me break it to you slow and easy so it doesn't shock you. GM has left Janesville, they aren't coming back, there are no more "overpaid" GM Workers in town. You can stop worrying about the 200 million dollars+ that Gm's payroll injected into the local economy yearly. Plus another 100 million or so yearly from the support industries. Plus millions of dollars in taxes that were paid by the workers and the industries. Stop complaining, they are gone.

Now there are just the "overpaid" public workers for you all to go after. Then when you get through with them, there are a few others who make more than 8 dollars per hour, you can have at them. Then everyone will be underpaid just like you, won't that be nice?

At least put your name to your work.
Paul Lembrich, you are a coward.

Are Wisconsin’s public school teachers in
fact underpaid, or is the underpayment argu-
ment a product of teacher union propaganda?
An analysis of a U.S. census survey data on
wages finds no evidence that Wisconsin’s pub-
lic school teachers are underpaid in compari-
son to their peer groups. In fact, quite the con-
trary. When public school teacher salaries are
adjusted for the number of weeks teachers
work each year, it becomes clear that teachers
are among some of the most highly compen-
sated employees in the state.

Public school teacher salaries dwarf those
of private school teachers. Before adjusting for
time worked, moreover, public school teacher
salaries are very close to the salaries of other
public sector employees. Once the time-
worked adjustment is added, teacher salaries
are revealed as significantly higher than the
salaries of other public employees and even
private sector employees. Unionized public
school teachers also make significantly more
than other unionized state employees. An
analysis of public school teacher health insur-
ance benefits reveals another compensation
advantage over other Wisconsin employees.

If there is any inequity revealed in this
analysis of teacher salaries, it is one related to
the effects of collective bargaining. Because
collectively bargained teacher salaries are not
based on merit, the best teachers make signifi-
cantly less than the top employees of other
labor market sectors, even though the average
public school teacher salary remains very high.
*
http://michellemalkin.com/2011/02/17/wat...

Was the filer posted somewhere? I did not get one and I want to see it

Somehow this seems to have gotten off topic... but if a GM worker at Janesville cant make it on teacher pay -- then they should either get a different job or get a Kudos for helping educate our kids. Whaht that does tell me is GM workers made WAY TOO MUCH and thats why the rest of us needed 2 jobs to buy their vehicles. Autoworkers were the most spoiled brats imaginable and combined with poor management they nearly destroyed an industry. Most public employees and unions have increased benefits and wages to the point they are strangling growth and the economy. This has been predicted for years and now we can see its true.

"When contacted by The Gazette, Seymer said he knew the names of local participants but was asked not to release them."

"They want to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation," Seymer said. "However, this is all public information."

The CRG people want to remain anonymous due to fear of retaliation. Yet they went ahead and published teacher's names, salary, etc. THey also conveniently left a link so people could look up to see what teachers want Walker recalled so they can be classified as "radical".

This CRG sound like a hate group that is run and manned by a bunch hypocritical cowards. They operate in the dark of night, trespass and use other people's property to distribute their cowardly flyers. Sounds like a bunch of cowardly degenerates to me.

dkush21, "After all, it is coming out of our pockets." - so are military pensions.

Teachers could take other jobs & let your children grow up like those of your that hate them //////////////////////

The CRG only did a job that the local newspaper should be doing. However, even in this article the Gazette did not present all the facts of teacher compensation. Where's the health insurance and pension costs? How about the required hours worked in a school year? The total compensation per hour for teachers would be a much more interesting amount in this blue collar town you would think.

Wondering if Walker's record and words are any indication of his personality type? Who can say one thing to the public and an entirely different position in private? Who would look at a camera and speak boldly about "divide and conquer" public unions on the path to making WI a "right to work state, " who can slash $1.6 billion from public education and then claim it is working? Then the testimony before a federal panel where he finally admits his measures to take away collective bargaining had no real fiscal impact on the budget. . Does Scotty fit the profile? I think he does. http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html This man is scary he is so polished in lying and schmoozing.

dkush it is all public information, here is only one of the many different places to look.

http://www.opm.gov/oca/12tables/index.as...

Yes, I want a flyer with all of our representatives salaries, health benefits, pensions, etc.. Please let me know how much they make. After all, it is coming out of our pockets.

Perhaps there should be a flier with the public income, and private holdings of all those in our state legislature, after all, fair is fair.

Teachers - Please know that there are many of us out here that TOTALLY support you! You have become the scapegoat for a governor that accepts millions from the rich, but doesn't care if you're thrown on the public chopping block even though you've worked 20+ years & have masters degrees PLUS many additional credits,at your own expense, but are still making middle class wages with basically no cost of living increase. Sad to think that people want the highest paid doctors, lawyers, etc., but when it comes to people who are educating our future leaders, there are people who think you should be earning the lowest salary possible. SCARY!

The poo_koch troll has had a busy day.

Just a reminder that WI ranks 28th in the nation for teacher pay. Beloit pays more than Janesville. . . How about a reality check on the salaries, already? http://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-sal...

That's really nice. An out of town group, organizing an illegal delivery of an anonymous flyer for the purpose of supporting a hidden (sort of) political agenda against honest, helpful teachers. Gee, I hope their kids all do well at the private schools!

I know a teacher who left GM to teach and has to work a second job to make ends meet. He says it is worth the loss in pay because he loves the difference he can make in children's futures. The pay cut was hard, but he is making it. ..

vato,I knew one. He had a major in education and a minor in poli sci. At the time he could only get subbing jobs and had just started a family. The chance to get in at GM happened so he took it.

nicely said troublemaker!!

Teachers have very challenging jobs, but they also have some pretty desirable benefits that most private sector workers do not enjoy. I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that those salaries are based on working only ten months of the year.
-
I think it's great that someone would take the time and effort to compile FACTUAL information and release it to the public. Let people judge whether local teacher compensation is appropriate based on facts for a change.
-
Why would someone want to be anonymous about this? Why is there such a dramatic increase in citizens who don't trust the Government? (When you answer a question with a questions its called a rhetorical question.)

wiggle - nice try on FOX news link hahahahaha; try this one:

http://www.manufacturing.net/news/2008/1...

no GM workers start with 16 paid holidays, then earn up to 5 weeks vacation plus down time in July and December; nice try! That equals around 3 months off too!

What is hard to believe is that a well known business owner is expressing such negative comments towards patrons or should I say former patrons on here.

My point is you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to GM wages.
"GM has about 2,400 entry-level workers who make $14 to $16 per hour, about half the pay of a longtime UAW worker. The union agreed to the lower wage as Detroit automakers ran into financial troubles in 2007."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/17/gen...

So a new teacher makes 40,400 a year for 9 months work, a new GM line worker makes 33,280 for 12 months work......

mopsy:
*I am not the one that started the comparison between engineers and teachers; julie did!!!
*
And no one ever said that one would trade for the other's profession.
*

wiggle - ok add in the benefits which take the 40,000 to around 70,000; last I checked, that was half of 140,000??? Your point??

How much does a teachers benefits cost? Did you add that to the 40,400? No of course not. Did you subtract 3 months pay from the GM worker for taking the summer off? No of course not.

Yeah, well Janesville's closed now, my son moved to another plant and he hasn't worked OT in three years. Things have changed.

wiggle - also if you check current wages for GM around $30/hr. that makes $62,000 FYI and with benefits they are at $69/hr which equals $143,520! Anything else?? Those are base salaries without all the overtime!

wiggle - have a friend, worked 2nd shift at GM in janesville; first year made $72,000 - that is with all the overtime teachers dont get paid for!

milton17
May 22, 2012 at 5:16 p.m
"That is crazy GM people with no education made (still make) almost twice that!!"
-

Where do you get your info? A GM line worker makes 28 an hour.
28 x 40 = 1,120 x 52 = 58,240
-
Your saying 58,240 is "almost twice" as much as 40,400? Your a teacher? Please tell me no!

Yada -- wondering if Walker's record and words are any indication of his personality type? Who can say one thing to the public and an entirely different position in private? Who would look at a camera and speak boldly about "divide and conquer" public unions on the path to making WI a "right to work state, " who can slash $1.6 billion from public education and then claim it is working? Then the testimony before a federal panel where he finally admits his measures to take away collective bargaining had no real fiscal impact on the budget. . Does Scotty fit the profile? I think he does. http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html This man is scary he is so polished in lying and schmoozing.

"Maybe this lot would be happier shelling out five bucks an hour to the local crackhead to educate their children."

Heck, they can get that at home for free!

Schulte said. "I don't understand where this intense anger is coming from". What planet has she been on for the last 16 months ?

thank all those teachers that taught those engineers!!!

killngrill, let's put an engineer in a classroom with 25-30 kids all day every day for, say, a week and see how how well he does. Actually, I doubt he would even show up for day two. And neither could the teacher do the engineer's job. Teaching is an entirely different type of profession from engineering. It requires an entirely different set of skills and talents. Why would you disparage the one because it is not at all like the other? As for all of those teacher-bashers who put together the flier, I'll bet none of them would trade jobs with a teacher at any rate of pay.

etown - this profile fits a bully, doesn't it? Huffing and puffing, but not owning up to any risks. . .

an i almost died laughing , call the police for using the gazette tubes. the gazette carriers are always using people s mailboxes and you dont seem to care. they drive the wrong way down our street to deliver , even the messenger people do it , and you dont care, maybe you should fix the problems with your carriers before u call the police on other people . instead of using the , there contract workers line we have no control

Has anyone addressed the illegality of placing something in mailboxes? Many of these fliers were stuffed in mailboxes which is against federal regulations. Link to US Postal service: http://faq.usps.com/eCustomer/iq/usps/re...

I know that is long, but here is what I found: "If you have a curbside mailbox or a mailbox on the outside of your house, USPS regulations govern what can and cannot be placed in them. Generally speaking, only mail that has been sent through the USPS ® may be placed in these types of receptacles. Conversely, USPS regulations do not govern what can be placed in a mail slot on your door. This means that if a local business wants to put a flyer in the mail slot, they can do so."

of course they dont want you to know who they are , you may publish their names , where they work and what they make for everyone to see. or u may just find out they donated 500,000 to walker s campaign .

people who need to remain anonymous on the issues they believe in are no better than bullies. Hiding and pushing unsuspecting people -- yelling out "We got 'em!" Really? What have they accomplished? Glad to know that Schulte will trash any forms that come in from this form.
Sad, sad, sad. . .

killngrill -- Walking forward into a hole is how to break your nose.

Regarding the comments on Walker moving the state ahead...I had to laugh. How much money has he paid his JOHN DOE investigation lawyers so far - too much. Innocent people don't lawyer up like Walker unless they know something. Walker also has members of Congress concerned about his truthfulness under Oath during a hearing in Congress. - take some time and read about it. Walker says its all a political issue...that is Bull! You don't say what he did to CONGRESS UNDER OATH & then get caught telling how you will DIVIDE & CONQUER.

http://fox6now.com/2012/05/22/walker-res...

Still supporting Walker - Read about his investment deal when he was County Executive.

http://www.mcguigan.org/Column-Bears-Ste...

Oh; and this was her junior year!!

juliew:
I went to college with a teacher to be back in the 80's and she was so happy when she received a 100 on her test. I looked at the test and to my disbelief; it was adding and subtracting real numbers. OMG. Please let's not compare an engineer’s education with that of a teacher. Yes, they are professionals, but NOT w/an engineering education!!

It's a good thing they were anonymous or some opposition group would take their names and print up 2,500 flyers of McCarthy style propaganda and distribute them into neighborhoods where they live.

The problem isn't freedom of information-it's linking it a recall petition and encouraging parents to persecute those teachers. The information that is online now is already being used by anonymous tea party groups mainly verify the recall/Put Wisconsin First-Tax delinquents, sex offender registries, Wisconsin court access. That's just crazy. People should be required to go to an office and sign their request and show their real names to obtain this information. I am sure when those databases were put online no one except True the Vote and their offshoot organizations foresaw them being used this way. This kind of behavior is disgusting.

Will the freedom of information requests be the next right taken away by the left? They must be upset because it exposes the lie the unions have been telling whoever is stupid enough to believe. Why do you start the fight if you don't want to own it?

And here's our fearless, heroic, jedi, Texas Ranger governor at one of many "non-partisan" "non-profit" CRG events. The album also shows one of the CRG members mentioned in the artcle at the same event.http://www.flickr.com/photos/crgnetwork/5491757459/in/photostream

Goopers and their trailing swarms of bottom-feeders keep the waters muddied. That's where they thrive: in the murk.

I bet Walker was behind this as he attempts to break the teachers union this is step one to eliminate unions in Wisconsin. I Walker is re-elected it will be the end of unions in Wisconsin just watch and see what happens. This an attack on the rights of working people but we can stop this on June 5 only 14 days away the choice is yours and will see if Walker Stays or goes.

Really???? "CRG Network PAC is a non-partisan, fiscally conservative, grassroots political action group. While the CRG Network family of institutions is fiscally conservative, it does not become directly engaged on social issues, liberal or conservative. It has endorsed and helped remove both Democrats and Republicans. CRG Network PAC has no executive board, only an unpaid, volunteer administrative staff."http://www.crgnetwork.com/Pages/2/Who_Are_We.aspx

Frogger, you spend too much time commenting on this site to lead anyone to believe you work, let alone extra hours.

It was even extra special that they threw them out in wuthering Hills so we could pick them up in our yards, by the dozen! Bitching about everybody else then pull that nonsense.

Ezoner said, "Poo -- be careful -- I would bet that when they are looking at those salary levels -- they are restricting it to the most desirable. Software, electrical and mechnical. There are many other engineering fields, that fall far short of that. Not taking a shot, but I know that the data has been skewed to track kids to engineering, because so few are willing or sometimes capable of meeting the difficult cirriculums of engineering programs."

Instead of telling me to be careful and wanting to bet on how they conducted the report, why don't you read the report? It was not restricted to any specific discipline of engineering and engineering was just one of eight fields the report covered. The purpose of the report is not "skewed to track kids to engineering" as you claim. You having made that claim, I seriously doubt you read the report. And by the way, what's the source for your figures that showed starting salaries for engineers range from $30,000 to $40,000?

Two things: 1. meant responsibility
2. just checked the post to check my salary. Salary accurate, but fringe is very off.

The School District of Janesville has private insurance.

Teachers have degrees sometimes many but aren't educated in my opinion, I had two roommates in college education majors, very watered down curriculum didn't have to work hard at all.
I think they've dumb ed down the teachers education.

If you don't think teachers are important read some of Eric Hanushek's studies, your kid can advance or fall back as much as a year of studies in one school year depending on the teacher. The study also reports no correlation in the teachers advanced degrees, and years of experience and the effectiveness of said teachers teaching.
I don't think the problem is in what they make, its the fact that they have no accountability. The union is the problem, teachers have no business getting tenure, there are embarrassing stories daily of teacher miss deeds and imprudence, but can't be fired, until teachers take responsibility like everyone else this talk will continue.

fordfan- I liked most of my teachers. Only a couple do I recall as being BAD.
Nope I didn't go on to school. Some never do.
So they work more than 9 months out of the year?? Plus time off during the year? Please explain! When I was young if I thought about how cool that would be as an adult maybe I would have gone to school but being 18 and living on my own and making more than a teacher at that time I didn't see the point.
I am glad they have the patience for all those kids I surely wouldn't and definatly not their parents.

Teacher's salaries (+ benefits) are available online all the time:
-
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/dataond...

The flyer earns high marks for effectiveness. They got you right where they want you. Arguing and debating over teacher's degrees and salaries. Beeeautiful.

DIVIDE and CONQUER WISCONSIN - VOTE SCOTT WALKER!!

I am in my twenty-second year of teaching, have my masters degree, protested in Madison with my children (who are educated in the SDJ) by my side learning civic responsibiliy, pay $164/mo for my student loan needed for my masters degree, am a proud union member,signed the recall petition for the Gov and Lt. Gov and I did not make the list of radicals. Where is the equality?

With only a bachelor's degree, teachers in janesville can only tops make $40,400 after 7 years!! That is crazy GM people with no education made (still make) almost twice that!! And other jobs with bachelors can go way above that! Know your facts before you spew and what other profession do you have to pay thousands of dollars every 5 years to keep your license???

Thank You teachers !!!

frogger - I would offer you the same question that I asked vato who is either tyoing up the mother of all responses or is not responding:
"If you think teachers have it so cushy and get such great pay, why aren't you a teacher instead of the great laborer that you are with a job that allows you to post out here 24/7?"

frogger, this is also from vato

'You are right Tim...my bad....now that I think about it..it is the non teachers who bring it up because they know a teacher that forks out their own money....'

"Maybe this lot would be happier shelling out five bucks an hour to the local crackhead to educate their children." I suspect many of these tea party nut cakes wouldn't really care. They are angry at their lot in life and think it is easier to bring others to their level rather then pick themselves up by the boot own straps.

"vatoloco
May 22, 2012 at 1:34 p.m.
Suggest removal

I love when they say..I work extra hours, pay for my supplies etc..blah, blah

Then get out of teaching if you are going to bitch about it...."
where IS that like button.
everybody I know ALSO works extra hours for NO extra pay not even overtime because they are salary and I am speaking of ALLL YEAR LONG not just 9 months of the year.

frogger - can you read and comprehend at all? This 9 month/year argument is ridiculous and a straw man and you know it. But if you don’t have that straw man, you don’t have a case and that is why you keep it up. It is the true right-wing Fox News for Dummies tactics. Maybe if you had applied yourself when you were in school, you wouldn’t hate teachers and education as much as you do today. I do not have a degree and I made twice what most of these teachers make. I worked hard, yes but so do the the vast majority of the teachers.

Poo -- be careful -- I would bet that when they are looking at those salary levels -- they are restricting it to the most desirable. Software, electrical and mechnical. There are many other engineering fields, that fall far short of that. Not taking a shot, but I know that the data has been skewed to track kids to engineering, because so few are willing or sometimes capable of meeting the difficult cirriculums of engineering programs. Most of the people that I have seen making that kind of money have been top of the class or minority. Plus there are turn & burn companies that hire 50-100 engineers, then lay off in 2 yrs and pick up more -- weeding out the weaker ones.

My point wasnt really about that -- that was a side note. The real message was that I wouldnt use just the flier. My concern goes deeper and I would not want specific / certain teachers instructing my children in a public NOR private setting if they let their conservative nor progressive beliefs affect the information flow. I want my kids to make up their own minds. I see people like fear and some others (yes sometimes you) that only present one side. There are always two sides. They should get the REAL facts about both sides and then decide on their own. Most people in general are unable to remove their bias from their discussions and interactions. Teachers spend allot of time with our children and radicals have no business in a classroom for EITHER side. You and I can discuss and disagree using our own life lessons and perspective. Kids do not yet have that experience and perspective from which to base any conclussions.

I posted this on an earlier article but it deserves space here: And... by the way where DOES the Tea Party come up with these weird people?
I arrived home after a vacation to find this ridiculus flyer attached to my mailbox. I am now interested in knowing the salary and benefit packages of workers employed by some of the Rock County 5.0 people. The ones I want to see are the companies that build schools, goverment buildings and roads- mainly JP Cullen and Rock Road. My guess is that the salary and benefit package for construction workers and road construction workers is similar to that of a teacher. Both can be govenment funded. The difference being that construction workers are often "laid-off" during the winter and are forced to collect unemployment while the teacher during the summer does not collect. Here we are folks- "divide and conquer" strategy. Walker has forced us to make these comparisons. Very very sad.

Maybe this lot would be happier shelling out five bucks an hour to the local crackhead to educate their children.

killngrill if a first year teacher makes about 33,000 for 9 months of work and a first year engineer makes 50,000 for 12 months the engineer still makes more. the first year teacher will make around 3700 a year and the first year engineer will make around 4200 a month. So maybe you can explain your comment: "50,000 for 12 months; NOT 9 months!!!!" and why you fell it needed so many explanation points.

'You are right Tim...my bad....now that I think about it..it is the non teachers who bring it up because they know a teacher that forks out their own money....'

I appreciate the post. It's sort of like when you claimed the teachers were on here 'always complaining' about losing the dough, yet you couldn't find one post. You can repeat something as frequently as you like, but that will never make it true.

"The flier lists the names and salaries of 321 teachers whose salaries range from $59,344 to $75,695. The district employs 765 teachers; the lowest salary is $34,676."
this is why we say STOP complaining. Seems good salary to me plus insurance plus 4 months off total in one year. Do you get paid vacation on top of this? Plus benefits and pension. STOP already.

WOW- do you have a mircoscope to read the picture???. This isn't in the printed paper unless I missed it.

What is up with being resentful about how other people make a living? Especially people whose efforts are one of the major factors behind why companies move to an area.

Walker, Walker, Walker, Walker!!!
************************************************************************
MOVING THE GREAT STATE OF WISCONSIN "FORWARD"
****************************************************************
FINALLY; FORWARD ------->
*********************************************************

Vato - so you would be happy about taking a 30%-40% paycut even if you have a contract? Mnay work for less than that it would leave you plenty to live on (or you could get a second job). It would make many of us happy if we could save on your products and services by you not taking so much. Besides, I have decided that you are an idiot and don't do your job well anyway. Please share your name so I can publish it.

Now do I believe this? Not in the least but that is exactly what you are doing to the teachers and other state workers. You denigrate them in doing their job and then when you have them softened up enough in public opinion, you break their contracts and no longer honor the contracts. And you either support this or you are leading the charge - you can take your pick.

juliew:
50,000 for 12 months; NOT 9 months!!!!

What everyone should know too is that those making $75,000 like Dave Parr, have their Doctorate and have been in the district over 17 years!! How many professions with a doctorate do you know that max out at $75,000???

fearandrhetoric4dummies:
*
Do you know how many teachers spoke in classes with my children when the protests in Madison were going on?
*
Do you know that many of them actually wore Union t-shirts to school during that time?
*
Do you know, do you?

Anyone have a copy of the flier?
*
Or a link to it?
*
I want to distribute these by going door to door and receive "real" people opinions!!

vato - you didn't answer my question. Let me restate it. If you think teachers have it so cushy and get such great pay, why aren't you a teacher instead of the great laborer that you are with a job that allows you to post out here 24/7? Or do you just want to steal from others and denigrate them to just to make yourself feel better? If others are less well off, does that make you feel more well off?

vato my point is that the teachers who spend extra dough in the classroom aren't bi*ching about it. It's the NON teachers who bring that to light when the teacher hating crowd pipes up about how they work 8-3 5 days a week and all make 100K/year. They are DEFENDING the teachers NOT complaining about it. If the attack on teachers would stop, or better yet never started, no one would be talking about the extra dough the teachers spend. You want 'summers off'. Free country man, spend 4 years and get a teaching degree. Pretty simple as you say 'if you don't like what you do don't do it' well if you like what others do better than what you do, GO DO IT OR STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT IT.

Funny how when we talk about taxing the top 1% more everyone talks about how we all have the same chance as Americans and they shouldn't be forced to pay more yet when it comes to the teachers doing the sacrafice then it's ALL about the gravy train and they haven't earned their pay/benefits. Sad really.

so vato....if you think teachers have it so cushy and get such great pay, why aren't you a teacher instead of the great laborer that you are with a job that allows you to post out here 24/7?

wmwiley - I have long thought that the teaparty groups are being duped by people who hate our country unless they can rob it blind. Some of the party members really have some personal issues and I don't hold that against them so much as I do the ones who are using them as their tools to do the dirty work. Others choose to be ignorant about what is going on and those I am less tolerant of.

How is this anti-teacher?
""At the bottom of the flier is a "Parents' Rights Protection Form" urging parents to send it to Superintendent Karen Schulte and request that "my child … be assigned to a classroom taught by a non-radical teacher during the 2012-2013 school year."""

What the heck is that? Pro-teacher? That is about as anti-teacher as it gets!! As it is there hasnt been one story of ANY teacher in Janesville making their politics an issue , other than some extreme storytellers on here.
If this is truly not the Gazette participating and I hear any more of these stories I expect the police to be called and charges to be filed.

This group makes "conservatives" look like a bunch of radical fascists. What group are they planning to target next? These folks already have a searchable database that compares tax delinquents, sex offenders and wisconsin circuit court records to recall petition signers, even when they themselves are delinquent tax payers, ex cons, drunk drivers and in foreclosure. They then send these peoples names and records all over so called "conservative" social media. The worst part of it is they can do this anonymously. You can't tell me that this wasn't the point of the Verify the Recall database, which Scott Walker supported. A group that doesn't even pay taxes. Some charitable non-profit...There is nothing conservative or American about these extremist fringe Tea Party groups. This is what "thugs" look like. If this is the direction "conservatives" are going in I will never vote Republican again.

Ezoner said, "The starting salary of teachers, if as stated, $30-$40k is in line with entry level engineers."

According to the National Association of Colleges and Employers, the starting salary of engineers that graduated from college in 2011 ranged from $49,851 to $72,594 with the average salary being $61,872. [ http://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/NAC... ]

Ezoner, if you think those numbers are in line with $30,000 to $40,000, your thinking needs realignment.

'I love when they say..I work extra hours, pay for my supplies etc..blah, blah
Then get out of teaching if you are going to bitch about it....'

Funny how defending ones self when attacked can be construed as 'complaining' by some.

I don't like cheap shots. Both sides are extremely guilty in doing things like this so neither side is innocent.

It looks like the starting pay for an engineer varies depending on what type they are but I was unable to find type who started at less then $50,000 a year. Not sure if Ezoner is making numbers up to fit his point or if he/she can site it? My source was:
http://www.engr.psu.edu/career/students/...
please note the first chart is internship, where they make about 30,000-50,000, teachers internship is student teaching which is not paid in fact they have to pay the University to do it.

I agree with Vat and some others. The starting salary of teachers, if as stated, $30-$40k is in line with entry level engineers. Yet an engineering degree is much more difficult and more in demand than teaching. There are exceptions to the rule -- always... exception :: A female, minority engineer may start at 2-3 times that of a typical entry level engineer. But thats an extreme. The engineer works 12 months and probably 60-80 hrs/week. Pays for 20% healthcare and 401K. So when you consider the 9 months and 3 months off, a pension, and free healthcare. The teacher makes 30-40% more than an entry level engineer. That being said -- the article is about radicals and its tough for a teacher to set aside their convictions if they feel strongly, whether I would agree or disagree with their position. This sounds like its about whether I would want that teacher filling my childs ears with thier possibly extreme beliefs.

DIVIDE and CONQUER WISCONSIN! - VOTE SCOTT WALKER

Just like any employee in any area the teachers deserve every penny of their salaries. Administration is another story. Where's the attack on administrators? I'm so sick and tired of teachers being the focus of Walkers crap. He didn't single out teachers yet that's what the lowlife Republicans are focusing on to keep the anty up. Without teachers who will teach our children? Without schools who will lead this state in 20 years? 30 years? 50 years? Stop the attack on education and focus on the issues.

Just like any employee in any area the teachers deserve every penny of their salaries. Administration is another story. Where's the attack on administrators? I'm so sick and tired of teachers being the focus of Walkers crap. He didn't single out teachers yet that's what the lowlife Republicans are focusing on to keep the anty up. Without teachers who will teach our children? Without schools who will lead this state in 20 years? 30 years? 50 years? Stop the attack on education and focus on the issues.

Simon, why would vataloco want to help people when he could be on these sites spouting his hate?

Orville is a hypocrite.

http://watchdogmilwaukee.com/jim/2006/cr...

vat - Are you willing to cough up extra cash for the kids that come to school with no supplies, etc., that many teachers fund because of parents who don't make sure their kids have what they need?

Wisconsin court records are also public information, Orville Seymer, and are available at: http://wcca.wicourts.gov/simpleCaseSearc...

""They want to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation," Seymer said"

No, they want to remain anonymous because they know what they did was wrong and feel ashamed.

As for the Gazette and it's righteous indignation about it's boxes: The Gazette put their box on our mailbox pole without our permission. Should I call the police and file charges against the Gazette?

Thanks, Vato, can't keep up with all of the LYING posts here!! Especially the posts where they do NOT answer the question or support their opinion from the lefties talking points!!

It is sickening....truly sickening to see a target painted on those who educate our kids. Teaching has always been one of the lowest paid careers requiring a college degree. The words "teaching" and "overpaid" don't even belong in the same sentence. Because of this, it makes me wonder what the end goal is for this bait-n-switch. Are they starting with the teacher's union to judge response time, public outcry, etc., before taking on the police and fire unions? Are they starting on the small fish and working their way up until they can loot the state pension fund at will?

This spineless "mystery group" should be identified and cited for littering - along with any other persons who unwantedly leave fliers on windshields, drop them on doorsteps, or stuff them in USPS mailboxes and newspaper tubes. And of course, their names should be printed as well since they seem so willing to identify others by name and salary information.

I have to give teachers credit - anyone who could put up (and seemingly take the blame for every kid's shortcoming over which they have little or no control over) with the little spawn proliferating in the classrooms nowadays deserves a decent wage! I didn't see any "concerned" local group putting together a list of GM employee names and high-end wages when that was a going concern (and yet I suspect those high wages had a lot to do with the closing of this plant and the loss of local revenue that resulted from it). While it wasn't tax money involved (or ws there a bailout...), I suspect that the teachers' salaries indicated in this flyer would indeed pale in comparison to the GM employee income data (and the GMers didn't have to put up with raising your little monsters either!).

Sorry 'bout that folks...my computer was spazzing out!

CRG reps sneak around in the dark of night like common criminals, but hey that starts at the top!

CRG reps sneak around in the dark of night like common criminals, but hey that starts at the top!

CRG reps sneak around in the dark of night like common criminals, but hey that starts at the top!

CRG reps sneak around in the dark of night like common criminals, but hey that starts at the top!

Sherm,
You are the one spewing lies and really not thinking clearly due to your excessive anger. You do not even take the time to read my posts or maybe you can't read. I never said teachers were underpaid, I think they are paid appropriately, maybe a little low on the starting end. Definitely not underpaid on the upper end.
***
An engineer in this area starts at around $45,000 per year, your $60,000 number is a mid level engineer. That same engineer has to pay 20% towards their medical insurance and typically has an employer match on their 401K of about 3-4%. There are your facts, you should take some time to do your research. But if you actually used facts, it would not support your weak argument.

Thanks, Andyo, can't keep up with all of the LYING posts here!! Especially the posts where they do NOT answer the question or support their opinion from the righties talking points!!

I am sure the people behind this are the same people who have repeatedly stolen our yard signs and or thrown glass beer bottles at theme on an almost bi-weekly bases for the past few months. this type of fear and intimidation has no place in a democracy.

Great salaries commensurate to their education and experience? So, a math teacher can take basically the same classes to become an engineer or an actuarialist (not sure if I spelled that correctly), and they start at roughly $60,000 on the low end? Teachers start at roughly $30,000 on the low end, so yeah (NOT), I can see how teachers are overpaid!! That's my point!! YOU HAVE NO FACTS!! Just spewing venomous lies!!

"Maggiemae" shows a lack of reasoning powers:

"And for those of you who said Governor Walker lied - you obviously paid no attention to the election. Show me one thing Doyle promised and kept in his administration"

You do nothing to rebut the facts that show Walker lied. He lied when he said stripping collective bargaining rights was related to the budget. He lied when he testified before Congress that he had no political intent with stripping collective bargaining rights. he lied during the gubernatorial campaign when he said he had no plans to gut collective bargaining.

Republicans always want to cut wages for working people - all working people. Not just public employees but anyone who works for a wage. When does it end?

Personally -- I have not read the entire flier, but what has been written in the article seems reasonable. If I felt I had what I considered to be a radical teacher -- which would be any teacher that promotes their political / personal agenda or gains and attempts to sway young minds, then in my mind that is a radical or irresponsible action. I would also consider teachers that took sick days for Madison protests to be radical. A teacher that took a vacation day, or unpaid day to protest would be fine, as they should stand up for what they believe in. There is a right way and a wrong way. Posting salaries -- well thats public info -- and some teacher may have a value of $120k -- but I would need to understand the background, and experience of said teacher. So to me its more than the salary, you can take finite data and extropolate a cause and effect. You need more information than a flier could provide. It would be but one data point for me. Not the complete data set which I would use to make a decision of whats best.

These perpetrators are cowards. They will publicize someone else's name in a McCarthyite smear job but won't stand behind their own actions.

It's possible that some of many dozens of paid staff brought in by the Koch-founded and Koch-funded "Americans for Prosperity" were involved.

This action also bears a very strong resemblance to "Operation Angry Badger," a plan by the disgraced (by their Unabomber billboard) Heartland Institute in document leaks several months ago.

More here:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/l...

In particular, it resembles these "divide and conquer" elements of the Chicago-based Hearltand plan:
Expose teacher pay in key districts."

"Create blogs that shadow small town newspaper coverage of the controversy."

And for those of you who said Governor Walker lied - you obviously paid no attention to the election. Show me one thing Doyle promised and kept in his administration. I don't recall seeing doctors acting like the teachers did when he raided their fund? Which btw was completely and totally illegal. Nope, the doctors had to take him to court - and not until Governor Walker was elected, was that fund paid back.
You tell me who is the corupt one. The left only want tolerance and compromise when it is the right who has to compromise. But when the left is asked to - the answer is no. Just ask the teachers in Milwaukee who got fired because their union wouldn't negotiate. Their pay/benefits was more important than keeping jobs. Yep - true colors.

The hatred and hypocricy by the left is what is fueling the exact same antics by the right. Is it wrong? yes. But speaking as one who is sick and tired of reading/listening to the news report a one sided report when it comes to Governor Walker, I definately understand the frustration. I am so sick and tired everytime the Governor is doing something (i.e. honoring the Fallen Milwaukee Police/Fire heroes btw where was Tom Barret? Oh ya - at a union rally, or when the Governor is visiting with special needs children), there are these obnoxious communistic blue fist protestors. The left has gone too far. Your behavior becomes you. You have now been exposed for the hypocritical, obnoxious, intolerant party you are. Regardless of how things turn out in the future. You will never have my respect.
And thanks to Fred Levenhagen and all the teachers who got phony excuses from work and shut down schools, you teachers have lost my respect as well. Your behavior was unacceptable. You wouldn't want it allowed in your classroom - so why did you exhibit the same for all of the world to see?
Truly - what a shame.

Shrek,

I graduated from SDJ many years ago. I had MANY of the teachers cited on this propaganda, and I can tell you that few, if any, of these teachers on this flyer have EVER given their political views while teaching or around students. The VAST majority of educators do not spew their personal beliefs to their students. And NOT all educators are democrats, believe it or not. So, lumping all educators as bad or promoting the sexualization of children is 100% laughable!! Ever turn on Faux News or the news in general? How about if people watched the Jerry Sandusky stuff come out? I would say the media, NOT educators, promotes the sexualization of children. So, again, it would be wise (apparently lacking in this situation) for you to get facts to base your opinions on instead of jumping on the bandwagon of bashing educators.

FTA: "...suggested parents pull their children from public schools and put them in private schools." This is another weapon in the attack on public education, trying to make people resent teachers for making more than they do at their minimum-wage gas station job, call them "radicals," and in so demonizing public educators, cast public education in general in a bad light. Well, if a majority of people aren't intelligent enough to see through propoganda like this, then all of us will end up losing the right to a free, high-quality education, which is exactly what authoritarian despots want: a dumbed-down populace unable to think for itsself, unable to see through state propoganda, willing to obey without question.

It seems a little hypocritical on the part of the flier writer/distributor to be calling the teachers "radicals" at the same time they are doing this. This is a radical move by radical sheeple.

The only businesses that are coming to Wisconsin are being pilfered from other states by the Lieutenant Governor. And I believe that's only ONE business from Illinois. So, that's NOT really creating new jobs, that's just stealing jobs from one state to another. But you righties can spin that any way you want. If it makes your/the governor's numbers (made up, by the way) look better, you will/he will do it anyway!

Teapartysal - listening to Vicki Makenna (spelling?) much lately? Pretty much parroting everything she says on her show. Yeah - I listen because I want to know what I'm opposing, instead of just reacting in ignorance.

--

I, too, was in Madison last year a lot. Shouting? Yes - like at a football game when people shout to support their team - and carry signs. "Angry Mob" may have described the mood on the night the assembly, cowards that they are, snuck in and passed Act 10, but other than that it was about the friendliest group I've ever been a part of. We now know the "damage" was primarily to the grass around the building.

---

But as usual, the Tea Party picks the most extreme examples to paint a very inaccurate picture. When passing Act 10 they loved to cite the bus driver making $120k or the teacher making about the same (including benefits). What they ignore was that 98% of teachers and bus drivers and other public employees make about half that amount. Now they find a few incidents of a sign being defaced or burned and try to paint that as "typical" behavior - when it is hardly the case. Most of these will be like the case last year of the Republican lawmaker who's windshield was "smashed" by protestors (and received a ton of talk time on radio) - which turned out to be a chip in the windshield caused by a pebble while driving. But it is much easier and more politically to your advantage to find the extreme case, exaggerate it a little, and play it as "normal behavior" for your opponents.

----

So the problem isn't just the outright lie and the 10% truth, it is that people, on both sides of the aisle, aren't aware enough, or simply don't care to, see through the obvious exaggerations. Instead they regurgitate that nonsense as if it were gospel truth. Wake up an think for yourself. See past the garbage and follow the money - on both sides. You will soon be jaded and sarcastic like me, but at least you'll be better informed..and it may even change your viewpoint if you're not careful!

True citizen,

No one can say anything about the supposed anti-Walker talk? REALLY? Like Faux News, right-wing bloggers, YOU? Your free speech has been stifled? Hmm, if only it were that easy to stop the LIES from the right from being said!! Again, stick to your talking points, and don't stray from your brainwashing garbage.

I know this sounds crazy but do you think that many business are staying away from Wisconsin until after the recall? Who wants to set up shop in this state after watching the mob at the Capital last year.

The flier isn't so bad. Unions, anti-Walker people etc have been spewing out rhetoric and all kinds of tripe, and no one can say a thing about it. So when some of this comes back against them, oh, that's different.
*
Just think of all the foot stamping the left and union supporters have committed to...

vatoloco, you said it...the recall is about all those things. We have a Gov. in office who campaigned on one thing, then did a complete 180 when elected. He's lied continually about the reasons for doing what he did, and he's under investigation for numerous violations while Milw. Co. administrator. WI has the worst job #'s of any state over that past year. This recall is about everything Walker stands for. His corporate-funded policies are killing WI. Where are all those companies that were going to come to WI? We are "open for business", right? I guess that only meant if you have money to spend with Walker and his sheep. Doesn't it concern you at all that Walker has spent so much time out of state fundraising that he's raised almost 70% of his recall funds from other states? Why are corporations from other states so concerned with Walker keeping his job? What is he promising them? We'll never know because he does all his business in secret and then gives a speech telling all the believers something completely different. If you're all so willing to 'Stand with Walker', I hope you're also willing to go down with the ship when it sinks. I was happy to see Doyle finally call it quits, but had I known this would have been the result and we'd be dealing with an extreme right-wing wacko I'd have welcomed Doyle back with open arms.

teapartygal - where are the references to your claims?

Sherm,
What about my comments is "fantasy"? If you don't think Act 10 is getting results, it is you that live in a fantasy land. You are just too blinded by partisanship and ignorance to see the truth.

I have no interest in being nosy and pulling up the report, but given the ranges indicated I think it seems like reasonable pay for our wonderful teachers. Teachers are underappreciated not overpaid!

Ms. Schulte doesn't understand where the intense anger is coming from? How about as a backlash to what is coming from many - not all- teachers all over the state? I was in Madison, it was bad, and yes, many of the angry mob I saw very clearly identified themselves as teachers, and yes, when you get up in my face and scream and yell and try to deafen me you are a MOB. Which explains why the people behind the flier wish to remain unknown. They don't want their children treated like that. Not to mention the vandalism and worse that has been happening to those with pro walker signs. I haven't heard about any incidents in Janesville, but there has been a dog poisoning, several sign burnings, and a refusal of city services(trash pick up) in places like Beaver Dam and Kenosha.
Finally, there was the staff of a state legislator who had a panel of their door kicked in, and had to hide in a back room, literally fearing for their lives. But since this NEWS doesn't fit with the unions or Gazette's liberal PROPAGANDA, the teacher quoted has no way of understanding the other side's concerns.. exactly as planned.

So, what exactly is 'anti-teacher'? The salary information is a matter of public record, because it is paid with 'public' i.e. taxpayer money. If I had a child in school, I would not want them taught by a 'radical' teacher, either. Frankly, I think I would have used different wording, such as, I don't want my child to participate in any class/activity that presents a one sided view of political/partisan issues. No doubt there's a better way to phrase it, but you get the idea.
My point is this... based on the info in the story, the Gazette's headline is a LIE, designed to support its own viewpoint and agenda. The paper could have published exactly the same information at the start of all this nonsense(minus the names)with perhaps a list detailing the # of hours worked, the amount of education, etc. That would have been NEWS we could USE. This story is nothing but the Gazette's usual propaganda, designed to support its leftist views. And we see by the comments that they have succeeded in getting exactly the response they wanted.. kinda like Pavlov's dogs..

Our teachers deserve every penny they make.

I'd ask if Shrek is serious with his comments, but I know that Fantasy Land is going on all through Wisconsin with the "tools" that Walker has enacted that are "working." So, not surprising that the righties continue to let their master lead them to slaughter. It will take a while, but someday, maybe they will witness the TRUTH!!

And don't forget, according to the NRA add on tv last night, Barrett WILL take away YOUR rights to own and bare arms because he will get a constitutional amendment to the U.S. Constitution to overturn the 2nd Amendment!! Yep, Barrett will, as a governor if elected, be able to overturn a U.S. Constitutional Amendment!! Right, again, the Stub Hub money tree gave me World Series tickets for free as well!!

vatoloco, great observation on the state of the economy. I'm sure the Walker campaign will pick up the anecdote on their next ad:

"On June 5th, vote Scott Walker for governor. After all, some guy on the internet says he sees more help wanted signs than he used to. Tom Barrett wants to make this about jobs, so there you go. We made more jobs. vatoloco proved it."

I honestly wouldn't be surprised . . .

Vatoloco,

Yep, it (the recall) is about ALL of those things you listed (collective bargaining, lying to the voters about his agenda, lying to U.S. Congress members under oath, the John Doe investigation that hopefully will shine DIRECTLY on Walker's illegal activities, giving tax breaks to "job creators" so we can LOSE jobs since his "tools" have been in place, evicerating public education, and so on). And it's about his ARROGANCE that HE knows (or better yet, his corporate masters tell him) better than the people of Wisconsin. It's a state and federal law that each state balance their budget each year. So, this alleged $3.6 billion budget shortfall that Walker "claims" to have closed is a FARCE!! It's not like over these first 2 years, it is just GONE!! No, Wisconsin still has structural issues related to the budget. So, Walker fixes those, allegedly, by cutting tens of thousands of less fortunate people on unemployment, in poverty, etc. (I know, they are ALL lazy, and need to get off the couch and find a job!!), cutting education, cutting any public sector spending, but giving Wal-Mart and other large corporations tax breaks to create minimum wage jobs with ZERO benefits! Right, because the jobs are just FLOODING into Janesville, Rock County, and Wisconsin!! Yep, and the Stub Hub ticket tree just gave me the winning lottery ticket for Wednesday's drawing!! Come on!! Can you righties that support this crap be this naive? You righties really believe Walker is looking out for your best interests? And the educators, firefighters, policemen, and other public sector workers are not worth what they get paid? Wow, then you really are clueless!! When Walker and/or Romney attack you and your family or friends with their bullying tactics, we'll see how you respond then!!

"CRG" stands for Cowardly, Radical, and Gutless.

This flyer is not anti-teacher, it is just putting forth publicly available information in an effort to educate the populace as to what the recall fight is about. It shows that teachers have great salaries commensurate with their experience and education. It also shows that they have excellent benefits that they have not had to pay for until Act 10 was implemented. The only part of this flyer that is questionable is the form at the bottom of page one, it is a bit over the top. I would hope that none of the teachers in the district would even think of bringing politics into the classroom.

Cowards.

EdJames...what is this reform you speak of? Larger class sizes, closed schools, and laid-off teachers. With almost no power left in the unions to "protect" those undeserving teachers, how much longer are the Walker-ati going to blame unions for forcing all these layoffs and job losses? At some point these reforms which you speak so highly of will have to be claimed by Mr. Walker and his acolytes. Businesses are not coming to Wisconsin en masse, as Walker said they would under his reforms, and the private sector is leaking jobs like a sieve. The unemployment rate has dropped, sure, but only because many have been dropped from the program and others have quit looking for work because there isn't any unless you're specifically qualified for a job. To be qualified, you need a specific and quality education, which has now become much less affordable under Walker's reforms. Wisconsin can't handle many more of these reforms without becoming Mississippi or Texas. Is that really what we want?

No, our state isn't suffering through its worst divisiveness in history, not at all! This is absolutely horrendous. I'm ashamed that people like this live in our communities. For as much as the right decries liberal views as radical and indoctrinating our youth, this flier sure sounds radical and seems to be an effort to indoctrinate our youth to one way of thinking, and one way only. I can also guarantee that the people putting out these fliers chastising teacher salaries has never spent enough time in a classroom to know how much work it truly is. I'll say it again...if you think teachers are overpaid, switch jobs with them for a week. I dare you!
*
This is the kind of stuff that moves our society backward and drives an even bigger wedge between friends and neighbors and communities. It makes me sick!

The flier lists some great teachers who deserve as much as they are paid or even more. It also lists teachers who have no business to be paid at the higher levels. The later includes open contempt for the requirement to teach students as well as coach a sports team What we see is the result of collective bargaining, which rewards seniority over teaching. I would like to have seen the names of those who distributed the flier. I also would like to see the names of the union members who pounded on windows and shouted in an attempt to disrupt a School Board budget meeting. Former member Stottler reported that event. I would also like to see the names of teacher’s who called in sick and shut down the Janesville Schools so they could go to Madison and disrupt the democratic process. I am sorry that teachers who oppose union tactics have to remain silent and not publicly state their views in fear of union retaliation. Whenever I have something to say, I use my name to give an honest opinion. That has resulted in harassment from some union supporters and even public criticism from some current and former City Council members. It was worth it. Reform is occurring throughout Wisconsin. Reform in Janesville is inevitable despite arrogant unions, a submissive administration, and some reactionary board members.

Nothing wrong with a well educated person being compensated for being well educated. That is what the college education system is about. Many of these teachers have Masters Degrees. Let this be a good lesson to our youth. If you get an education and work hard, you will not have to settle for a minimum wage job. I do not feel any of these salaries are out of line. Let's inspire the best and brightest students to be teachers. Paying teachers poorly is not the way to do it.

Thank you, teachers! You work hard and deserve your salaries! Shame on these lunatic authors of that garbage....and what cowards to not even put their name on it! There are people who appreciate teachers in this city! Please ignore the negative comments that I am sure will come from wislady, Donnaw, fed up, and other whiners!

To the teachers who will be reading the soon-to-come moronic tea party commenters: you really shouldn't bother. These people . . . they're just not worth it.

Know that there are plenty of us who support you fully. Generally, though, we have better things to do with our time than spew hate on the internet.