Cullen: Misinformation considered root cause for previous mining bill's failure
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Sen. Tim Cullen, D-Janesville, listens to testimony from Ann McCammon Soltis, director of the division of Governmental Affairs at the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission, during proceedings of the Senate Select Committee on Mining in Madison. Cullen serves as chairman for the mining committee.
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Cullen listens to a question from Sen. Glenn Grothman, R-West Bend, during committee proceedings.
Before it offers a new mining bill, the Senate Select Committee on Mining is working to cut through misinformation spread before the last mining bill failed, Sen. Tim Cullen said.
"What we have found is that there was a lot of misinformation when we considered a mining bill last session," said Cullen, a Janesville Democrat who chairs the committee. "These hearings have cleared up a lot of that. These are clarifications not based on politics and not based on what members of the committee think. These are conclusions of experts who work closely with mining."
For example, a representative of the Wisconsin Mining Association told the committee that tough environmental standards do not hinder mining in Wisconsin, and regulators agree that the permitting process for a new iron mine would be about six years if state and federal agencies work together.
"We learned several things in the three informational hearings we've held, but two stand out for me," Cullen said. "We have learned that the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources is not the lone player in issuing a permit, and we have learned that the time frame in the bill that failed in the past session—basically one year—is not realistic."
'Regulatory uncertainty'
Stephen V. Donohue, a hydrologist for Foth Infrastructure & Environment in Green Bay, has 20 years experience in permitting mines in Wisconsin and Michigan, including the now-reclaimed Flambeau mine near Ladysmith. He spoke at the hearing on behalf of the Wisconsin Mining Association.
"Based on my experience in the industry, I would say that the basic reason there is no investment in this state from the metallic mining industry is due to regulatory uncertainty of the permitting process and ambiguous rules embedded in Wisconsin's current statutory and regulatory framework for the development of metallic resources," Donohue told the committee at a Sept. 25 hearing.
"The requirement for rigorous baseline environmental studies, environmental impact analysis, sound engineering plans, environmental monitoring, reclamation, post-reclamation monitoring, compliance with groundwater quality standards, surface water quality standards, air quality standards and financial assurances are not hindrances to investment in the state by the mining industry," he told the committee.
Cullen said Donohue's testimony is consistent with public statements by Gogebic Taconite, the mining company interested in opening an open pit iron ore mine in northern Wisconsin's Penokee Range in Ashland and Iron counties.
"G-Tac said all along the permitting process was a problem," Cullen said. "They never publicly claimed our environmental standards were a problem, yet the bill last session eased some environmental standards to the point where the bill was unacceptable to a majority in the Senate."
An example of environmental changes Cullen cited was a provision on mitigation.
"You cannot do mining without some environmental impacts," Cullen said. "The bill last session allowed mines to fill, which means eliminate, trout streams, rivers and lakes. To mitigate or compensate for those losses, the bill would allow for the construction of a structure somewhere.
"The bill didn't specify what structures could be built," he said. "Does that mean a boat landing on the Rock River in southern Wisconsin mitigates the elimination of a trout stream in northern Wisconsin?
"That's obviously not acceptable, but was it necessary to include that in the bill?" Cullen said. "The mining interests were not asking for environmental changes."
Permitting timeline
The Legislature could set a permitting timeline of 100 days, but that would not ensure that a permit would be approved or denied within that time frame, Cullen said.
"The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, for one, has to sign off," Cullen said. "They are not going to go along with an unreasonably short timeline. There would be at least two timelines resulting in additional cost to the mine."
The timeline issue was confirmed by Rebecca Graser, an Army Corps of Engineers spokeswoman who testified at the committee hearings.
"Each project is specific, but if the state had mandatory timeframes for completing these sorts of studies, it would be less desirable for the agency to complete one of these studies jointly with the state," Graser said. "It would put them (mining permit applicants) in a position of having two documents completed from two separate entities. I would expect that it would increase their costs significantly."
'Not anti-mining'
Cullen said the committee learned the Wisconsin Wildlife Federation had concerns about the effects mining could have on the environment but was not anti-mining.
"It has been almost 30 years since the adoption of Wisconsin's current mining statute, and it is highly appropriate to review and update the law," said George Meyer, executive director of the Wisconsin Wildlife Federation and past secretary of the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources.
"In the recent legislative session, the major issue cited for changes to Wisconsin's current mining law was the potential for a dragged-out regulatory process and the need for reasonable timelines to assure regulatory certainty for a mining applicant," Meyer said. "If fact, this was the only issue that Gogebic Taconite brought forth publicly. Never once did the company publicly state the need for other changes in environmental regulation.
"The federation is clearly not anti-mining," Meyer said. "The federation's official position on mining is to be supportive of mining and that mining regulation should be done in a manner that does not unnecessarily or substantially adversely affect fish and wildlife habitat or reduce public input into the issuance of mining permits."
Minnesota comparison
Cullen said another example of misinformation was a comparison with Minnesota.
"We heard during the debate last session that we were behind Minnesota in the permitting process," he said. "Well, the facts are that Minnesota has not issued a permit for a new iron ore mine in 40 years. They have issued permits for expansions of existing mines, but no new ones. We also learned that the shorter timelines we hear about in Minnesota are for those expansions and additions to existing mines, not new mines."
One application in Minnesota is in its ninth year, Cullen said.
"There have been delays, but the mine continues to pursue the permit."
The general timeline, Cullen said, as spelled out by witnesses at his committee's hearings, is that it takes about two years for a mine to do its preliminary work prior to applying for a permit. It takes another four years for a new mine and about 2.5 years for an expansion for an existing mine, according to the Army Corps of Engineers, he said.
The Senate committee will continue its hearings and is scheduling testimony from regulators in Minnesota; Tim Sullivan, who will report on a study of other states and their mining processes; local government officials; and representatives from local economic development organizations.
"We plan to have a recommendation ready for the next session, a reasonable and workable proposal that will provide jobs and protect the environment," Cullen said
Oct 4, 2012 at 8:54 p.m.
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JCK,
Allow me to quote a comment I made on this very story.
"thekai
Oct 3, 2012 at 2:16 p.m.
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Fear,
Dale Schultz was the only Republican senator to vote against act 10.... I don't know why people always forget that.
Another Republican from the same region of Wisconsin (assemblyman Travis Tranel) also voted against Act 10. I don't think that is a coincidence."
Bowlgal,
Travis Tranel is up for re-election this year. Does that mean he is in trouble? Oh, hold on a minute, the Republicans already had their primary, right? Hmmm, it seems Tranel was still the choice. Believe it or not, some people still see value in an independent thinker, versus someone who just stays quiet and does what they are told.
(In case the dots have not been connected, 100% of Travis Tranel's constituents are also Dale Schultz's constituents.)
Oct 4, 2012 at 5:49 p.m.
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meemaw - I do know it was never discussed with the tribes and they hold the trump card.
Oct 4, 2012 at 1:35 p.m.
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Misinformation???? DNR, EPA and the Army Corp of Engineers answered all questions & gave approval. This was not a bill crafted by Gogebic. It was JOBS badly needed! Cullen is a runaway pacifist demonrat & Schultz is a died in the wool RINO!
Oct 4, 2012 at 12:16 p.m.
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feduptaxpayer: "JCK - because he is a Democrat in Republican clothing."
Thanks, that explains perfectly why he voted in favor of Act 10 and every other bill favored by the Walker administration.
Oct 4, 2012 at 10:12 a.m.
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You need to do your own home work. Let's just say it is a good thing for Bob Jauch, Chris Larsen, and Dale Schultz they are not up in 2012 for re-election.
Oct 3, 2012 at 10 p.m.
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Dems looking and working hard for a mining bill that also protects the environment, people's future and holds companies that profit most accountable (PS - they will still make millions!) Just like health care, Keystone Pipe and protecting collective bargaining for workers.
Oct 3, 2012 at 6:06 p.m.
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Something that everyone seems to forget about this whole issue. The legislature and the guv can pass any legislation that they chose to. But this is ceded territory and it also has to be approved by the tribes and federal government. So if they aren't satisfied whatever the state passes, I believe is moot.
Oct 3, 2012 at 4:21 p.m.
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There were two Democrat Senators, one from Milwaukee where most of the equipment was being made by union workers and one from the mining area that were on board until the recall. They caved to the public unions over private unions and their constituents as the memo stated. "We do not wish to give Governor Walker a victory before the recall election."
The environmental concerned were already agreed upon.
Senator Cullen should know better!
The Democrats lost that recall election and so did thousands of people who could have jobs in the state of Wisconsin.
Oct 3, 2012 at 4:21 p.m.
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Motorman
Oct 2, 2012 at 6:16 p.m.
Do you really believe that Cullen is telling you the whole story? Have you done any homework on this issue yourself? I have.
My statement stands!
Oct 3, 2012 at 2:16 p.m.
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Fear,
Dale Schultz was the only Republican senator to vote against act 10.... I don't know why people always forget that.
Another Republican from the same region of Wisconsin (assemblyman Travis Tranel) also voted against Act 10. I don't think that is a coincidence.
Oct 3, 2012 at 12:54 p.m.
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""
JCK - because he is a Democrat in Republican clothing.
""
Was he as such wehn he voted for Act 10? Ther are Dems when you dont like it, and a loyal foot soldier when you agrre? Stinks of independence to me.
Oct 3, 2012 at 12:23 p.m.
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There are rules in place. Follow them or get out. The minerals will be there for the company that wants to follow the rules.
Oct 3, 2012 at 12:19 p.m.
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A COAL MINING company (taconite uses an incredible amount of electricity) buys cheap mining rights from an entity who flatly tells them about the regulations in place. This company then begins a program of buying legislative influence and MASSIVE public opinion campaign (including recruiting the President of the Wisconsin State Bar) just like the coal mining industry did while mountain top mining in Appalachia which destroyed an ecology and corrupted a political system beyond any foreseeable remedy. The intent is to bypass and not comply with the requirements in place. This is horribly wrong and completely unacceptable campaign is being condoned and endorsed by the Administration of Temporary Governor Scott Walker.
Gogebic Taconite LLC... Wisconsin is CLOSED for your business.
By contributing to politicians for regulatory laxness Gogebic demonstrates that it will not follow the rules. This company is precisely the profile to hide income out of state and overseas. In hiding from Wisconsin's income tax they will compete against proper permit getting, real tax paying companies and force them to dubious accounting in order to "fairly compete" all that after Gogebic buys an abbreviated approval process.
Even if the approval process is burdensome, it was burdensome when they paid for mining rights. Had the approval process not been burdensome - the fair market would have made the price for mining rights much higher. By buying a devalued mining rights, then working to lower the regulations for themselves, Gogebic is leveraging against the balance of the fair market... in effect cheating the process.
With that brief history you really this Gogebic is going to pay a fair wage? They can't even fairly follow an approval process. They will whine, pay a few more politicians, hire another PR firm to sell to the gullible that the workers wages to too high for them to compete. Leveraging another price point against the once fair market for labor, just like they attempted with regulations. Big problem was that Walker was such a high profile confrontational temporary governor more and more people like me are paying attention to all the ramifications of this regime.
Oct 3, 2012 at 11:30 a.m.
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All I know is that the left will not get out of the negative anti-American so-called green mentality. If Cullen wants to impress me, he will make sure this and other companies are able to make it happen. We need our own resources and job creations etc etc. Everything else is a lie.
Oct 3, 2012 at 10:04 a.m.
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If the failure of the mining bill was all about the democrats making Walker "look bad," or the "orders of their masters" how do you explain Sen. Dale Schultz (R-Richland Center)? The Republicans held the majority in the senate and he's the one who, with his swing, vote killed the bill.
The bill failed because it was a bad bill. It was written by the mining company and would have cause irrepairable damage to the enviroment. Thankfully Schultz was informed and independent enough to realize that.
http://wcmcoop.com/2012/02/20/breaking-n...
Oct 3, 2012 at 9:37 a.m.
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Sounds completely reasonable to me. No wonder the righties can't handle it.
Oct 3, 2012 at 9:13 a.m.
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"It will be nice to have a mining bill that is actually written for Wisconsin by Wisconsin legislators rather than being written by a mining company based in Florida and thrust upon the state by Walker and the so-called Republicans in Madison."
.
Yes, Yes, Yes!!!!!!
Oct 3, 2012 at 9:07 a.m.
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Misinformation? Apparently the misinformation was that the mining company would actually say bye bye to WI politics & go across the border to Michigan with its good paying jobs.
Oct 3, 2012 at 8:42 a.m.
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And Fedup needs to return to his room where a fresh bowl of mush awaits him !
Oct 3, 2012 at 8:30 a.m.
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oldvet, I AGREE with you. NOT passing the mining bill was all about keeping Gov Scott Walker from getting a victory before the RECALL ELECTION. Runaway Cullen had the same ability to READ & UNDERTAND the mining bill as well as everyone else. NOW, doesn't that just tell you a lot about how much the demonrats care about Wisconsin employment???
Oct 3, 2012 at 6:32 a.m.
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kidsfirst
And your comments are typical of a bully.
Oct 3, 2012 at 6:30 a.m.
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schnibble
Army Corps of Engineers must have been lying, according to some of you.
The document linked was 15 pages, and that's your take on it?
Secret meetings to make a bill.....sounds like Obamacare.
If the democrats had not been so hell bent on trying to destroy Walker, protests, and running away from their duties, there might have been some compromise.
Put Cullen in front of a camera and his head grows.
Oct 3, 2012 at 6:15 a.m.
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wislady -- if by freedom of speech you are referring to twisting information into emotion-laden, reaction seeking nonsense, you do a fine job. However that type of commentary is reflective of personal character-- i don't find character necessarily following partisan lines. try to read and learn no matter political affiliation.
Oct 3, 2012 at 6 a.m.
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illdrinktothat
kidsfirst
Two of the best examples of the left's view of freedom of speech...it is only allowed if you are a liberal.
Oct 3, 2012 at 5:51 a.m.
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The only reason this has returned is because Cullen and the Democrats were voting against Walker last time and not against mining. Their vote against Walker didn't work and Now they are scrambling to find an excuse to pass this bill because even they realize that they look like total buffoons.
Is Cullen still commuting from The Clocktower?
Oct 3, 2012 at 5:37 a.m.
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This story makes me proud that my senator is a serious and thoughtful man. Thank you Sen Cullen!
Oct 2, 2012 at 9:59 p.m.
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I'll repeat again Maynard....this time SLOWLY...Time for you to visit your visitors bureau.
Oct 2, 2012 at 9:56 p.m.
Oct 2, 2012 at 9:27 p.m.
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Wislady, your comments are a sad reflection of your character. These are not opinions, but statements and summaries of testimony by witnesses before the committee. . . Actual transparency seems to elude GOP supporters.
Oct 2, 2012 at 9:14 p.m.
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illdrinktothat: Not talking about the tourist trap towns. Check the outlying areas. For example, check the population of Park Falls and Butternut, Wisconsin in 2000 versus 2010. They would, by the way, be on the way to Copper Falls State Park, Amnicon Falls State Park, Timms Hill (highest point in Wisconsin), Cable, etc.
Oct 2, 2012 at 8:59 p.m.
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theone
Just because Cullen (and you) have a different point of view, doesn't mean you are right.
Cullen is just enjoying the short lived majority....after throwing a hissy fit so they gave him a committee to chair.
Had the democrats been listening during the mining talks before, they actually might have learned something.
Oct 2, 2012 at 7:49 p.m.
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"Still waiting for the ones in southern Wisconsin praising the environment up here to fill up their vehicles and come north to see that environment and spend their money in our communities."
Time for you to visit your visitors bureau Maynard.
Get the facts on tourist dollars in your area.
Oct 2, 2012 at 7:39 p.m.
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I find the timing of the article and the headline and contents amazing. Whoops. Misinformation. Sorry. A month before the election? Tell that to the dying towns in the north woods due to the lack of jobs. Still waiting for the ones in southern Wisconsin praising the environment up here to fill up their vehicles and come north to see that environment and spend their money in our communities. Enough said.
Oct 2, 2012 at 7:29 p.m.
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wislady does her share of twisting the truth, and now she is trying to look relevant.
Oct 2, 2012 at 7:01 p.m.
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Cullen does his share of twisting the truth, and now he is trying to look relevant.
Oct 2, 2012 at 5:36 p.m.
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And the democrats will make sure it takes another 30 years, if they have their way.
Oct 2, 2012 at 5:27 p.m.
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There were two Democrat Senators, one from Milwaukee where most of the equipment was being made by union workers and one from the mining area that were on board until the recall. They caved to the public unions over private unions and their constituents as the memo stated. "We do not wish to give Governor Walker a victory before the recall election."
The environmental concerned were already agreed upon.
Senator Cullen should know better!
The Democrats lost that recall election and so did thousands of people who could have jobs in the state of Wisconsin.
Oct 2, 2012 at 4:47 p.m.
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NoVertical, that's great sounding rhetoric, but with Republicans in control of the Senate the defeat of the mining bill could not have occurred without votes against it from members of both political parties.
Oct 2, 2012 at 4:46 p.m.
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There's a difference between "misinformation", which is mistakenly passed on, and "disinformation", which is lies planted to a political end. Clearly the Walker administration was, once again, in some kind of fantasyland of their own making, supposing they could wave a magic wand and bypass federal approval bars, pretending the environmental laws created obstacles to mining, and flat-out lying about the comparable situation in Minnesota. This is what happens when legislation is written in secret without public input. It is obviously the Republicans who are hiding information from the voters, and the Republicans demonstrating clear contempt for Wisconsin and our open political process.
Oct 2, 2012 at 4:39 p.m.
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THE only misinformation that was shared is that the Democrats were ordered by their masters not to pass the bill to make Walker look bad. THE only misinformation being reported is by the lapdogs for the Democrats. Now that election day is rolling around, they are passing on "some other" reason for telling the unemployed THE only important passion they have is their own election.
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