http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/e...

http://www.channel3000.com/education/Maj...

wiselady--what does that have to do with whether it's constitutional or not?

Abele: Act 10 Repeal Would Lead to "a very large debt increase" for Milwaukee County

http://www.maciverinstitute.com/2012/10/...

Fear......"rushing to negotiate is a silly statement"? Are you completely clueless as to what is going on concerning Walker's legislation? It was almost guaranteed with Prosser's election to the state supreme court that Walker's legislation would get green lighted whenever it was brought before the court. With the latest liberal attack on the constitutionality sure to be shot down by the high court, why in the world would the school board rush to lock themselves into a contract with so many unknowns on the horizon, when they have never done so in the past? I'm not surprised that with your obvious bias, that you would love the Janesville property owners to be once again taken advantage of by the labor unions, but thankfully the school board is agreeing with the majority of voters in saying that those days are over with:)
I loved the comment, ""tax to the max" that is fodder used by people to scare them into thinking that small raises in property taxes will destroy their own personal finances. As we have found this is simply not true."
Simply not true huh??? In the top 10 of all 50 states and were not getting taxed enough on our homes? But it's only a "small" increase every year right?
The last comment regarding Walker and jobs is another issue where fear has a weak attempt as injecting fear into a situation. I realize that you want the state to fail economically so you can get up on your little soapbox and say "I told you so", but everyone I know has a good job in the state and is extremely happy with the path that Walker is taking the state down(aside from 3 crazy liberal friends who work for the state, are financially secure, but still think they are entitled to more taxpayer dollars). So just keep hoping and praying for the worst, and the rest of us will just keep working to make this state a better place.....Good day!

"rushing" to a deal is one thing, rushing to negotiate is a silly statement. Negotiating is a long process as it should be. Starting now would be productive and lead to nothing being rushed.
Unfortunateley I never said anything about "tax to the max" that is fodder used by people to scare them into thinking that small raises in property taxes will destroy their own personal finances. As we have found this is simply not true.
What we have found is by not taxing to higher levels has caused losses in state funding for the school district and resulted in program and teacher cuts. It has also caused unecessary budget holes. The shortsightedness of this board ans the people that like to use terms like "tax to the max" to scare people has simply caused problems for this school district. No one wants an open checkbook for schools, not even me. That being said, you get what you pay for, and the JSD is headed in the same direction as the rest of education in Wisconsin, downward. Unfortunately those results will be seen in the years to follow this republican led attack on public education. One thing can be said about the governor and all his partisna robots, they certainly arent creating any jobs are they?? Be interesting to see how many of the zombies keep voting for his failed record when all they do is piss and moan about Obamas failed record.Republican leadership will NOT change the economy, anyone who thinks it will is ignorant. This economy will not be dramatically improved by either party. Until we learn that as a society we need investments in our future as a nation, the downward trend will continue. And yes investments include PAYING MONEY ofr things, constant tax cuts aren't helping anyone, except of course the very wealthy.

I never did understand why districts wait until March or April to start negotiating contracts that expire in June when they know it's a 6-9 month (or more) process. Contracts are issued in March and employees have been expected to sign a contract that hasn't even been negotiated yet - the districts just expect employees to sign not knowing what the provisions might be when it's finally negotiated. It seems to make sense to start the process earlier.

Jaxstaff...that's fine....but why would the school board "rush" into contract negotiations at his point? With the current contract expiring well into 2013, the school board made the right call in not prematurely rushing into something......no??

916W... I was simply giving usaret a time frame to show we didn't "rush" into signing our contract before Act 10 took effect.

Calm down fear......Think about your statement, "Thats what we should be teaching future generations, get ready to get screwed by the privelidged" in the context of this story. Your do realize that the "privileged" in this discussion are in many cases struggling middle class homeowners who are likely making much less than those you claim are getting "screwed".....But go ahead and keep trying to convince everyone that your "tax to the max" beliefs are directed firmly at Janesville's incredible amount of "privileged" millionaires and billionaires!

jaxstaff......By your own admission with your quote, "we negotiated the contract for over a year after our contract expired", the prior contract wasn't negotiated until much later down the line. Why on earth-considering the current contract doesn't expire until the middle of 2013-would the school board lock themselves into a contract with there being so many unknowns regarding Walker's legislation? Aside from being seriously premature, if the school board were to do this I would consider the move to be grossly negligent in their responsibility to the taxpayers who elected them......

Better than teaching them that they are entitled to everything their little hearts desire and if they don't get it they should have a temper tantrum.

""NOT EVERYTHING IN THIS WORLD IS FAIR"" Great attitude , no wonder why our nation is in the toilet. Thats what we should be teaching future generations, get ready to get screwed by the privelidged.

Maybe Parr could try to bribe like Obama does - instead of free Obama phones, he could give away free Parr pads or something else from Apple.

All, so that they have a framework to build upon, if the need for a handbook materializes. They already have a union contract to build upon - they need to be prepared for either situation.

Apparently some of you didn't REALLY read the article. The quote I stated from the article, "clearly positions the employees as an afterthought rather than a partner" is referring to School Administration creating a handbook, holding focus groups about it and then presenting the insurance portion of it to the school board. They obviously did not include the teachers in all of this. So my point was NOT EVERYTHING IN THIS WORLD IS FAIR. You will always have people higher than your position making the rules. And the school administration does have some sort of expertise in classrooms and/or teaching.

why would he talk about the city contracts on a School thread??

'Just say no' to the teacher's union is a tactic that works for me.

I think usaret was referring to the city's contract with it's union employees, not the teacher/school board contract.

usaret...pay attention... first of all the JEA did not sign a contract with the city...we signed one with the School District of Janesville. Secondly, we negotiated the contract for over a year after our contract expired. We signed that contract in August of 2010, three months before Governor Walker was elected (he never stated when running for office he would eliminate collective bargaining). He proposed Act 10 in February of 2011.

Unfortunately ALL IN your perspective here is biases, as is admittedly, MINE.
However lets look at the facts. Parr is talking about negotiating the next contract, which expires at the end of the school year. The BOE and Schulte were trying to get them to open their contract in the middle of it!! Lets ask local business owners , perhaps the owner of Phones Plus to renegotiate their contracts in the middle of them because of financial difficulty, I wonder how BS would trespond to that??

""I'm talking about the time it was signed, just before collective bargining was not a requirement. If the city had waited, it might have been a different contract.""

Usaret, another complete and total LIE!!! The deal was signed 3 months before Walker was even ELECTED!! 5 months beofore his atrocious , partisan bill was even introduced.

I would have a great deal of respect for you if you would just come out and admit that you are blowing partisan hot air and apologize for misrepresenting the facts as you continue to do!!
Ill wait.....

Sal- Adramatic increase in benefit costs AND HUGE increases in deductables for educators IS a pay cut. When you take home less money to your family its a pay cut, no matter how you slice it. Btw Sally, why make changes to benefit programs that have allowed a district to save 30 million plus dollars? Talk about a political football!!
If you think that 21 kids in a classroom is a low number then any "experience" you claim to have is BS. I am from a family of teachers and I will tell you that when you have schools with rising poverty rates, and parenting at an all time low, 21 is an extremely high number.
I would challenge you to do what I do, SAL, volunteer some of your time each year at an inner city elementary school. Tell me how great education is when you have kids in poor or even wealthy districts going 30 deep in the classroom. Actually spend some time there instead of running your mouth. Cutting funding for education, cutting salary/benefits for the professionals that teach our kids making the profession LESS attractive for the best and brightest IS NOT A WAY TO IMPROVE THE SYSTEM.
Like anything in life you get what you pay for!! There is not a way to improve educating kids by cutting funding, none, zero, zilch. anything else purported by you or any other angry elderly person is just fodder for the partisan masses, PERIOD.
Let me be clear, I am ALL FOR a better evaluation system for teachers. To implement asystem that would work, COSTS MORE MONEY, and I say DO IT!! You know what??? SO do the VAST MAJORITY of teachers!!

Parr said, "The district can continue its extreme, top-down approach and signal that it does not really view educators as partners..."
Nice stance.
Mr. Parr, does your opponent's viewpoint always have to be declared "extreme?" (when in fact, they are hardly so?). where does calling the board "extreme" get you in an negotiation other than a locked down opponent?

Now Parr knows what it's like to be turned down - the shoe is on the other foot now (thank goodness).

Missdog3: In the "real world" people who are the bosses/supervisors/managers, have the some sort of expertise in the field in which they are managing. School board members are NOT educators. They have no idea what it is like to be a professional educator (at least board members in Janesville). They are making rules based on largely fiscal issues; not what is in the best interest of students. That is one of educations largest problems. Most people attended school k-12, so they assume from that experience that they are experts because they have watched teachers for 13 years. Being a student does not give a person an accurate depiction of a teacher's profession. Much of their work happens outside of the class. It is like assuming you could be a doctor because you have been a patient, or a lawyer because you have gone through the court process. The problem is that too few people have that type of professional respect for our teachers.

sal, if you think that education in Janesville today is anything like your rural 4 room school decades ago, you're living in a fantasy land. No, not the one where you make it with Ayn Rand in your Mom's basement; the other one where you have a clue about education.

I'm talking about the time it was signed, just before collective bargining was not a requirement. If the city had waited, it might have been a different contract.

I did NOT say there WERE radical teachers, I said some parents voiced concerns and the superintendent stated that if she received a form from parents requesting their children not be taught by radical teachers, she would throw the form in the trash. Great attitude for a public servant. Why not meet with these parents and find out what their concerns actually are? Decrease class size? 21 seems pretty low to me.. And btw Mr/MS ARROGANT FEAR.. My primary school had FOUR classrooms, not one. My elementary and junior high schools in the same rural district were of course larger. I went to school with children of teachers and principals from nearby Waukegan School district who did NOT want their children in Waukegan schools. My test scores in March of my 8th grade year all scored at high school levels, and yes, I CAN prove that..When I went on to high school in Waukegan, the first thing my English teacher did was ask who went to Beach Park Schools, because those who did always excelled. So much for your condescending attitude towards a small town education. As for forcing one's pov on children, you mean like what I saw when I taught in the Follow Through Program in Waukegan, or in the Special Ed program at Neal Junior High in North Chicago? Talk about a liberal view point being forced on children! I've also directed 2 school age child care programs, MR/MS Fear, one in Illinois, one in Wisconsin. So you see, I do have some background in this field. Now, why don't you point out which teachers have had their salaries cut? As for your other asinine remarks, fear, I don't know why they spent ANY money on an ice rink when we are broke, any more than I know why Mr. Levitt gave away tax money to city employees. You make an assumption that Paul Ryan is my 'hero'. You then knock the tea party movement. If you knew anything about either subject, you would know that despite what you've been brainwashed to believe, Mr. Ryan is NOT a favorite with the teaparty. Then we have your statement that there are 'NO' radical teachers in Janesville. Again, 1) I didn't call anyone a radical, I simply pointed out that some parents had a concern that the superintendent did not feel she needed to address. But I'd sure like to know how you can say there are no radical teachers in this town? Do you personally know each and every one of them and know them well enough to be certain of their political views? Really? 2) Also interesting is that while you clearly remember my statement about 10 bucks from months ago, you cant remember a thing correctly from a comment just an hour ago.. selective memory? Or a stellar example of twisting words and out and out lying to suit your needs something the left is (in)famous for? Finally, no, I don't think everyone who disagrees with me is radical.. you for instance are condescending, rude, arrogant and ignorant.. See, I didn't call you a radical, did I? Gee, with descriptors like that maybe I should assume your hero is Joe Biden?

The bottom line in my opinion is that there are way too many political agendas on this school board. Hard to get work done when they are worried about their own political agendas.

Usaret, why do you make comments when you have no idea what you are talking about? The JEA negotiated for over a year and a half to get a 4 year deal done (the board really wanted a 4 year deal so they could focus on other things, like students and learning). The contract wasn't signed until over a year passed the previous contract and long before ACT 10. Get your facts straight before you make ignorant comments.

luvujvl, why work on a handbook then? Why not wait until they know for sure before going through all the work of a handbook?

Why would it make any sense to start negotiating when it isn't clear what they can negotiate for? Until the courts figure out what the rules are, neither side knows where they stand. Discussing details at this point would only amount to media hype and dramatic outbursts.

Sal-Please point out some radical teachers in Janesville. Specifics please. You need a remedial course in partisan rhetoric, actually you should teach it, because quite honestly its all you have. Maybe if you hadn't gone to school in a one room schoolhouse back in the 19th century you wouldn't be following tea party politics. Time to live in society Sal, a society where IMPROVING education is a reality, not cutting salaries of educators and increasing class size so you don't have to pay an extra 10 bucks in property taxes this year.
If you are truly concerned about waste? Maybe you should run for city council and ask why they are building 3 million dollar ice rinks when we are supposedly broke. Maybe you could ask your hero Mr. Ryan why he didn't ask for stimulus dollars for the rink? Time to change the tea bags Sal, there are no "radical" teachers in Janesville. People that you disagree with politically are not automatically radical, they are allowed their beliefs as you are yours. anyone that doesnt want a "radical" teacher , is a numbskull and afraid of something. Maybe parents should spend time parenting , and less time worrying about their kids teachers views. If your POV is so correct, make your argument to your child and let them make up their own mind, don't program them.

Issues like these are why Janesville, like Madison, Beloit and other municipalities needs one on one school board races so we dont get stuck with politicians on our school board who would never get elected otherwise.
How do we get people like these on a board of education in a community that is blue and cares about Public Education? Lets let these board members run one on one and have the spotlight focus on them and their ideas, instead of this jumbled mess of a system that continues to get people like BS elected. People that really have no business being involved in decisions about public education.

Pay for parking and dress codes?? This is your BOE Janesville, the laughing stock of the state , be proud!!

""Janesville rushed in the last time and signed a contract.""
Usaret- That is an absolute LIE, and you should retract that statement. The Board and the union negotiated a contract over a year and a half!! Is that a rush?? Please do not regurgitate your conservative talking points if you are not clear on the facts.
The problem I have with ANYONE on the board writing a handbook is, why on Earth are people with NO experience in educating our youth doing making rules about how PROFESSIONALS do their job?
Bill Sodemann and "Doctor" Schulte were all over the media begging and pleading with the union to re-negotiate SETTLED contracts, knowing that if the JEA opened their contracts that there would be no negotiating. Now the JEA wants to start negotiating the next contract nearly a year away!! All they do is play silly politics?
To all of you staunch republican repeaters , are you aware that the horrible teachers union in Janesville and their SELF FUNDED insurance has sved the district some 30 million dollars plus over the lastr decade? That has allowed the district to have a very large fund 10 BALANCE!!!! Funny how when facts get in the way of political rhetoric, how silly people look isnt it?

No sympathy from this quarter. Not that I ever had much to begin with. Lets see, the gazette stories I've seen on the city's schools all show about 21 kids in a class --much less than when I went to school decades ago in a smaller rural town. So much for all the whining about increased class sizes. Then we have the superintendent saying if parents say they don't want their kids taught by 'radical teachers', she's just going to throw the request in the trash, w/o even trying to understand the parents' concerns. Hellllllllooooooooo, those same people you 'dissed' in the Gazette a few months ago are the people who pay your wages, Ms. Schutte. Now you want to reopen your contracts, after being given a chance to do so already.. all in a town where so many of us struggle to live paycheck to paycheck? Those of us lucky enough to be getting a paycheck? The teachers union needs a remedial course in reality if you ask me.

The union is irrelevant. They can hold meetings, have a secret handshake, and maybe even whisper a password, but make no mistake brother Parr, your days of dictating anything or using a stacked deck arbitration threat are over. This little vacation from reality Judge Colas has granted you will not last because you know as well as everybody else that Act 10 was the will of the people of WI. The recall result should have made that abundantly clear.

Because the School board and the Unions are one and the same. The Fox watching the hen house. No COLLECTIVE BARGAINING WAS EVER HAPPENING.

Compare school board members to a board of directors, or any business leaders that run a company with more than a couple hundred employees. Those executives might be smart, but they too run a business where they don't know the ins and outs of making a widget. So, when you say "School board members don't know how to run a class, or how to deal with kids who have issues. Not only they don't have a degree in education field, they don't even work at school. That doesn't happen in the REAL world, does it? You can't simply compare to the regular companies." That IS part of the real world. So why can't a school district be compared to a large company?

Personnally, I think they should wait to see what the outcome is in court over the collective bargining. Janesville rushed in the last time and signed a contract. No need to rush unless the Union wants a contract signed before the court determination which might go against them.

So in the real world, the owners, directors of departments, supervisors and managers can decide how to budget and how to run business,right? Those people ARE all workers for their company, right? Look at the school system now, especially with ACT10, the school board members can decide everything all by themselves(Union still can negotiate salary) without anybody who is from the education field. School board members don't know how to run a class, or how to deal with kids who have issues. Not only they don't have a degree in education field, they don't even work at school. That doesn't happen in the REAL world, does it? You can't simply compare to the regular companies.

"clearly positions the employees as an afterthought rather than a partner" is usually how things happen in the "real" working world. Most companies do not give the opportunity to their employees to "help" make the rules; that is why there are owners, directors of departments, supervisors and managers to make these decisions for the company as a whole.

Actually, the unions did have a conversation with the Board about opening the contracts last year. The unions offered concessions in the area of health care which would have saved millions (2-3). The Janesville School Board was not interested.
It seems our Board is more interested in political agendas than the welfare of students (except Hesselbacher).
It's a sorry state when money and agendas come before kids, regardless of political affiliation.

Quite true, Jv93! Parr and his union refused to even consider helping out the district when it needed the help. A contract is a contract, they said. Now, when the window is open briefly for the district to handcuff itself to yet another contract, Parr sings the blues that they aren't even willing to consider it. They are indeed reaping what they've sown!

Well look what we have here. Union leader brother Parr is upset because the district will not come to the table. I believe not long ago he was offered the chance to come to the table but refused to do so. Reap what you sow union brother.