Allfor1--The teachers do not pay $15000 for their health insurance. They pay their very small premiums and deductibles and no more. It is paid for them as a benefit to them.

TCB, do you have the cost for family coverage for a year? Teachers put in $15,000 in addition to their premiums and deductible each year. The $15,000 is part of their salary and benefits. For a married couple that both work in the district, they put in $30,000 plus premiums and deductible. Could a family get coverage for that price? The big question is, why are they raising the cost to the teachers insurance, when they already make a profit of them each year? Where do you think a huge chunk of the $25 million in the fund 10 came from? The current self funded insurance is a CASH COW for the school district and they know it.

126 for a family premium? What a great deal! Go an try to buy health insurance-with similar features and let us know what the monthly premium is!

To Thinkfuture:
You state that public sector workers have more education than private sector workers.
Fact: First of all, the public sector absorbs more than its fair share of the "soft degrees" and underperformers, who would NEVER make it in the private sector. Secondly, if what you state were true, there would NOT be as much outrage as is the case over teachers' pay in the community.

UnderAchiever-In a typical business situation, for a salaried employee, you could expect the following. There would a range of pay for a new hire and all other salaried employees. Where a person is paid in the range would be based on experience and ability. There is not allot of room for negotiation. Very rarely, if ever, would a person be hired at the top of the range, no matter how good or experienced they are. Those ranges don't increase every year. You would not be able to negotiate a different insurance plan, although you may have a couple of plans to choose from. You may be able to negotiate PTO, although again, there are guidelines that are followed. You would not be able to negotiate a guaranteed retirement. You would need to accept the companies 401K match and fund the rest of your retirement out of your paycheck. You would not be the only candidate. There are literally dozens of people that put in resumes for each salaried position. So, if you really want to change jobs, you have to remember that there are probably five very qualified candidates that would take the initial package offered for the job without negotiation. Indeed, your desire to negotiate may mean that you are out of the running for the job. Businesses work to make money, so pay and benefits goes up and down as they can afford. These cuts in pay and benefits have become the norm and a 50-60 hour work week is expected. This is 52 weeks a year, minus holidays and 4 weeks of negotiated PTO. I hope this helps you to understand what you would be looking at. Please post any questions you may have.

"Your salary will increase at a predetermined percentage (which I admit is nice-unless I outperform that) but your premiums will increase by 300% and deductibles by 500-700%, which will make that raise actually a pay decrease.
Regardless of profession, that would make any employee a bit perturbed." Exactly. The point is, this has already happened and keeps happening in the private sector. It is not "teacher bashing" or "Walker's agenda" that prompts these comments - it is just that the rest of us have already been there, done that. Small or no raises for several years and increasing premiums are a pay cut for the rest of us, too.

"Jobs in the public sector typically require more education than private sector positions. Thus, state and local employees are twice as likely to hold a college degree or higher as compared to private sector employees. Only 23% of private sector employees have completed college as compared to about 48% in the public sector.

Wages and salaries of state and local employees are lower than those for private sector employees with comparable earnings determinants such as education and work experience. State workers typically earn 11% less and local workers 12% less."

http://www.nirsonline.org/index.php?opti...

Just Tryin--Perhaps I spoke too soon about private sector benefits and wages, since I'm not in the private sector and haven't been since menial high school jobs. I was under the impression that if you were skilled in your field, you could negotiate wages and benefits at an interview. Let's use a doctor as a comparison, since I think it's a comparison that's easy to understand. (Yes, I know teachers and doctors are not the same.)

Let's say you are a highly trained and skilled pediatrician at Mercy entering the prime of your career. You're well liked by patients and recognized by your hospital for performance. Let's also say that Dean, Meriter, and University Hospitals are looking for a pediatrician. If you were to interview at those 3 hospitals, are you saying that even though one of them really wanted you, they wouldn't make a salary/benefits package offer better than the others? By your reasoning, they would say, "Well, here's what we pay doctors with 10 years experience. Take it or leave it."
I was under the impression that you could come back with a counter-offer in the private sector if you were worth it. If I'm to interpret your statements, private sector companies have a similar system like schools and employees have to take what they offered or go somewhere else? Or is this just with benefits? I would consider paying the monthly premiums others quoted ($400-600 month or more) if I could negotiate my salary. Unfortunately, all I get is this: Your salary will increase at a predetermined percentage (which I admit is nice-unless I outperform that) but your premiums will increase by 300% and deductibles by 500-700%, which will make that raise actually a pay decrease.

Regardless of profession, that would make any employee a bit perturbed.

The increase in ther negative press is all part of the Walker agenda. There are MANY teachers losing 30% of their salary & benefits.

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/...
http://uppitywis.org/blogarticle/timelin...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/23...

http://bloggingblue.com/2012/04/24/scott...

UrbanAchiever, I don't see teachers as greedy at all. Until this year, they have negotiated their contracts and earned what they negotiated. Times have changed. Please post again and mention what you think the private sector is able to "negotiate" for an overall benefit package compared to yourself, with the same education and experience level. I would ask anyone to do this. I have a feeling this will lead to the all-time highest number of posts in the history of the GazetteXtra.

All4one, You are correct!! Unfortunately people enjoy empty partisan garbage than the facts. They piss and moan about taxes and yet they fail to ask the board and the district whom is so short on funding year in and year out why it is there is over 20 million in the find 10 BALANCE and why its there. The JEA and the teachers here deserve credit for the way their insurance is funded and how many MILLIONS of dollars they have SAVED taxpayers, and they also should be held up as examples of why act 10 was NEVER nneeded. the LIE of teachers being forced to buy expensive WEA trust insurance, was a lie. Anyone here in Janesville should know it.

Imateacher,

I understand that any increase in insurance reduces available take home pay and currently negotiated benefits. I never mentioned $80 thousand, I wrote $60 thousand. Huge difference and my number is factual. In addition, I wrote the $7000 raise was last year, not this year. It was a raise that many received. The facts are that teachers receiving this raise did have masters degrees and extra credits. And since they were all negotiated and earned, then great for them! My point was that Mr. Murray was giving a poor argument, although slightly true, when the pay and benefits have been, and still are, very good and have also been continually on the increase. Also, my username is just_tryin, not just_sayin. Please work on your reading skills and comprehension as they are poor.

$15,000 per employee times 1,000 would be about 15 million. At the end of the year the district has had a surplus for nearly 10 out of the last 12 years. Where is that $10 plus million, you ask. In the fund 10 account, that's where. Should that money go back to the teachers each year? Why not, it is theirs as a part of their package. If the claims come in over, they should have to pay in more the following year. With these increases, the district is just going to add more to the fund ten while teachers take home pay/salary will decrease. Call a board member or the district office. I'm not sure you'll get a straight answer, but you might learn a bit more than just reading the this site or the gazette.

missmary, do you think $516 a year times say 1,000 employees for a total of about $516,000 covers the medical claims for a year for all the district and their family members? Heck, it doesn't take much to rack up $500,000 in claims. Especially if the teachers go to Mercy. Why would they want to truly tell you in the gazette or at the board meetings how the salary/benefits actually works? Then you might actually understand what teachers are talking about and why they are not happy. And maybe even start supporting them. The amount in the self funded account already covers all the claims each year. There is no reason to make the teachers pay more other than to add more money to the fund 10 balance. Or as someone mentioned, to give them a PAY CUT.

I have a hard time believing that $15,000 a year is "taken from their salary/benefits and it gets put in to the insurance" when the annual premium cost to them is only $516. Where are you getting your information?

I agree - I'll take the $126 insurance.

It is a PAY CUT! The compensation package has been cut... PERIOD!
.

missmary, call or email a school board member and find out. Or better yet, contact a teacher. The district is self funded. Those funds don't come from $43 a month, soon to be $126 a month. The district even gets more from a couple in the district.

Oreally is right.....$126 a month for family coverage is a steal! Take it! I pay over $700 a month with a $1,000 deductible.

AllFor1....$43 a month (current family premium as stated above) times 12 months is $516 a year. Where does the other $14,484 come from to arrive at your $15,000 figure ??

I'm one of those 'greedy' teachers that stands to see their deductible skyrocket next year. I'm also a teacher with probably 25 years left to teach (or, as the retirement age creeps up, 30 years). I've been recognized at the local and state level for my teaching, put in a good 10 hours a week extra, hold multiple leadership positions at my school, have a master's degree with extra classes focused on utilizing technology, have parents trying to get their students into my class, and yet...I'll be seriously looking at other area districts in the spring to see how they compare financially to what Janesville will offer its staff. I love where I work and think I do a pretty good job, but I have a family to think about and if another district will offer me an outstanding benefits package, I'll probably take it.

Think of it as a football analogy-I'll be a free agent next summer and am going into the prime of my career. Unfortunately, I'm guessing most area districts are in the same financial bind as Janesville and I'll sign with them for a hometown discount. Gosh, if only I was private sector I could negotiate my wages and benefits.

DwightKSchrute - Re-read my statement carefully.

There is a significant difference in how highly educated professionals are compensated versus those whose main job responsibility is showing up on time - this is how it works in the private sector (there's a reason the unemployment rate for educated professionals is half of the national average - the demand is high). Educated people have more options thanks to the limited supply - if an employer presents unfavorable conditions, they move to another employer. Make things much worse and you'll drive teachers into the private sector, not to another district.

And before anyone spouts off that this can't happen - that you somehow have them trapped, go find some educated professionals and ask them what they went to school for. You'll be surprised how often it has nothing to do with what they do professionally. Education = Options.

doc, you are completely wrong. Get up to speed with other cities/districts? How about a community that starts supporting its teachers and educators? There are many districts/cities that are much more supportive and pay just as well, if not better than JSD.

A lot of you don't understand how the "Self Funded" insurance works in this district. Why should the teachers pay more when the district profits each year from what the teachers put in? Each teacher has nearly $15,000 taken from their salary/benefits and it gets put in to the insurance. At the end of the year, if the $15,000 times the number of employees doesn't get used, it goes into the fund 10 account. Ten out of the last 12 or so years the teachers have underclaimed and that is why the fund ten account is over $20 million. The teachers don't get this money back each year. So if this is true, why does the district feel the need to make them pay more. I could see if they came up short each year and claimed more than they had put in. Are they doing it because they can, and good old Scott Walker gave them the ability to. For couples in the district, they get over $30,000 taken out of their salary/benefits on top of the premiums, deductible, co-pay and 80/20. When this new health options go into affect along with paying to WRS, a couple in the district will be losing anywhere from $8,000-$10,000. That's a lot of money they won't have to spend in the community, much less make ends meet.

sounds like what their going to pay is what I've been paying ever since Walker's laws took effect

I want the same insurance as Walker, Ryan. I pay for that with my taxes. So if they can have it I want it also. Point is don't take from the teachers just because the company you work for is to cheap to give you good insurance. And I still want the same as Walker.

I want the same insurance as Walker, Ryan. I pay for that with my taxes. So if they can have it I want it also. Point is don't take from the teachers just because the company you work for is to cheap to give you good insurance. And I still want the same as Walker.

I hate to see the teachers and the community at loggerheads. The two sides need to be working toward each other: the community toward the teachers and the teachers toward the community. Paying $126/mo. for family coverage is a fabulous deal, and teachers need to recognize their good fortune. That's what rates were in 1970!

Maine2010 - interesting list. Two of the three states in front of Wisconsin (New Hampshire and Texas) don't have an individual income tax, so slightly higher property taxes are much easier to swallow in those states.

Imateacher, just_tryin was talking about teachers that make over 60,000, not 80,000. So where are the facts in your statement?

Here are some. Teacher salaries for the 2010-11 school year, sorted from greatest to least, by name.

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/dataond...

Worst States for Property Taxes
The Tax Foundation found that homeowners in these states paid the most in property taxes compared to home value. The percentages represent the percentage of home value that homeowners pay in property taxes.
1. New Jersey - 1.89%
2. New Hampshire - 1.86%
3. Texas - 1.81%
4. Wisconsin - 1.76%
5. Nebraska - 1.70%
6. Illinois - 1.73%
7. Connecticut - 1.63%
8. Michigan - 1.62%
9. Vermont - 1.59%
10. North Dakota - 1.42%

According to the website: WISCONSIN SCHOOL PUBLIC PAY 2010 to 2011, the
highest paid teacher in Janesville for 2010 was paid $68,194 + $20,018 Fringe = $88,212, (VanBuren=school name). On this website, you can enter any school district, school name, or employee name to retrieve a list with salary and fringe info. After looking at that info, it is clear why it is time to clean house. This compensation most certainly is NOT in line with the new, lower global standards that those footing the bill have had to face.

Sorry not Kathy, *Karen*

ReasonableIntellectual - do a google search, you'll find plenty of information about insurance premiums in the private sector. The first "survey" I happened upon lists monthly insurance premiums for private sector workers in Columbus, OH in 2006. They are, single - $276.66, and family - $767.79. Given that was 2006, they've certainly risen since then. I can't imagine our private sector premiums are too far off from that.

Another thing It is funny how when a teacher/school employee and you had a UNION, Kathy you stood with the unions, now when you move up you as many others shun the unions that gave you a decent living and great working conditions and the right to negotiate a FAIR CONTRACT. Now you as the rest of those that gut our systems and destroy quality in Our Children"s future, Flip Flop. My how some people forget who got them where they are. Let me refresh your memories!!!!! UNIONS and Good Quality Educations.

What I do not get is you Tax payers that complain FORGET THAT THE TEACHERS PAY TAXES ALSO AND thus are paying some of their own wages and have the right to fight back for equal consideration. Are you heartless ones so up the GOPs behind,and that ignorant that you cannot figure that out. I want quality education for the children and is see so many that are as the GOP and want everything done for little to nothing from the working middle class and want nothing from the millionaires. You want their labor, their experience,their taxes and good education, but you do not want to pay them their worth, The big money people want it all from the little guy and do nothing, nor pay nothing to the workers they have, nor in taxes and you that support them and think they should get a free ride at our expense. You are IMO as Un-American as it gets,Equality for all and That means taxes also and doing their fair share and held accountable to the rules as every other American.... OBAMA 2012

"Private sector workers are paying much higher deductibles and premiums of $400 to $600 a month, DiStefano said."

I don't know ANYONE with at least a Bachelors degree that pays that much and has that high of a deductible. I'd love to see the statistical basis for that statement.

Hey, Just sayin, I'm looking at the teacher contract for 2012-13 and there are NO cells near or over 80,000. There are also no cell jumps near or over 7000.
If you know a teacher that is making more than 80,000 then that person must have been working for the district for a very long time, have a Masters degree or a PhD. and / or is coaching several sports or taking on many other after school jobs. If you know a teacher that jumped $7000 then they must have invested a huge chunk of their own time and money into classes to move more cells or taken on more responsibilities.
Starting salary for a new teacher is $35,370 this year. that is a about a 600 jump from last year. Salary for a teacher with a PhD and 17 years of experience is 75,933. That is a jump of 1,500 ish from last year. If you want to talk teacher salary, fine, but remember to use facts and look at both sides of the spectrum.
just sayin

Well said doc0430.

The quality of education in this state is quickly going to decline. The argument that teachers gave up pay increases (I'd like to see real source material showing that any teacher got a $7000 dollar raise) for better benefits in the past is not a weak one. It's true. It was the biggest financial draw of the career field. Low pay but great benefits. Now the great benefits are going away. True, compared to private sector benefits they're better, but as Murray said, they don't look so great with pay remaining frozen. Also, there's no way to negotiate anymore. Pay, benefits, working conditions are all at the mercy of administration. Many highly skilled individuals that would have considered going into teaching will now head into other fields. Teachers have always, as a group, been under appreciated and under paid for what they do. As that gets worse so will the quality of education that our children and our grandchildren receive.

Just Tryin wrote: "Half the kids in the district,, that have parents trying to help pay these salaries and benefits are living at poverty level or below."
---------------
These parents have had their wages slashed because they have to compete with the wages paid in China (globalization), but are forced to pay for the excessive compensation of teachers because teachers are protected by unions. This is extortion.

These health insurance rates are still reasonably low, although it is quite an increase.

School board member Kevin Murray stating employees gave up pay increases in past years for the better insurance, although slightly true, is a weak argument. Just last year some teachers received $7000 a year raises, and hundreds of employees make over $60 thousand dollars a year. It is fair they receive these amounts because it was negotiated. However, it does get old reading what they gave up, when the reality is they received quite generous salaries and benefits. Half the kids in the district,, that have parents trying to help pay these salaries and benefits are living at poverty level or below.

Last year when other cities around the state were already seeing savings under the new laws, and teachers and school district employees were given the chance to reopen the contracts to try and help with the budgets huge shortfall they refused to make any concessions at all, so now that we are coming up to the end of those contracts what did they expect to happen?
They told the cities taxpayers no way last summer, so come next summer we the taxpayers will be getting our turn to say NO WAY!
It's time to make the same concessions that are being made state wide, and I truly hope that the school board stands their ground and not cave to the demands as they did during the last contract negotiations, it's time to get up to speed with the rest of the state of Wisconsin and we the taxpayer will not be held up this time around, we won't be bluffed into giving in like last time, threats of leaving the district for better pay and benefits elsewhere won't work because now we all know that those dream jobs in other districts don't exist!
Sorry teachers, now it's our turn......