I see nothing wrong with anyone say the Pledge of Allegiance in any language, as long as it is heart felt. But I will say people DO need to be able to converse in English in this country.
If I were to move to Poland right now, I would be at a terrible disadvantage not knowing and using their language. I think it would be terribly unfair for me to expect them to learn English because I can't speak Polish.
But a pledge is a promise that should be heartfelt.
Wow. From looking at some of these comments, it is very apparent that Janesville is still pretty much a very caucasian blue-collar town. Some people who posted to this thread need to get out of town once and a while and become a little more diverse. They sound like racist rednecks.
Ever heard of "When in Rome do as the Roman's do"? In other words when out in public speak english. In your own home speak what you want. Many of our forefathers did just this. Why is it so wrong now and why is it so hard to understand the concept?
I think that it's wonderful that in the USA we have the freedom and choice to learn other languages, it's kinda neat to know that our students can learn another culture, and apply it to our own, so I think that inviting the SPANISH CLUB to say our pledge in the language they have learned.
What I personally WOULDN'T agree with is if we were forced to learn our pledge in another language, or they had to say a daily Spanish version. THAT'S where I think it would cross the line.
It seems that our lack of standards is why our country has become so distracted (thanks liberals) and our military (having its own standards) has become so strong. What would happen to a country in chaos who has a strong military??
Hmmmmmmmm
I'm not saying as a country, we should all conform. We each, as individuals, need a certain level of independence to enjoy our own creativity.
However, as we all know, we are stronger unified. During times like these, I think we all could benefit from that kind of strength.
""Assimilation is what our immigrant ancestors strived for, not losing their customs and tradiions, but rather fitting into the broader American culture.""
The Pledge of Allegiance is just that....a "Pledge" by our citizens. America has always been a "Melting Pot" of people from around the globe. It doesn't metter what language we speak, it's a pledge of patriotism. Whether they are from Africa, France, Mexico or Iraq, as long as they are here legally, they are still Americans. What a Great Country we live in...enjoy it!
Isn't it great that there is a local public school that still begins the school day with a PA of the Pledge? * I have been to many local government meetings where the pledge is not even recited. * Assimilation is what our immigrant ancestors strived for, not losing their customs and tradiions, but rather fitting into the broader American culture. * Requiring English as our primary language does not preclude anyone speaking their native tongue - it simply serves to assimilate and bond all Americans together, regardless of your native land, or skin color, or religion.
Tis a wonderful nation we live in where we can share information and viewpoints. Many have written some wonderful points throughout this discussion and some very prejudice ones have been expressed as well. They say prejudice is born of fear. DanHartung you are right, folks ought to know the truth about the pledge they consider so sacred and American. You have inspired me to tell more of the story and I hope you will add any omitted details about the pledge and it's author. Yes folks, it's true. There was more to the Pledge of Allegiance that people seem to have forgotten. The original salute was not the right hand over heart as children have been taught to demonstrate for more than 65 years. The author's salute had people face the flag and during the pledge they were to extend the right arm in the flag's direction with the palm of the hand facing down. This practice was discontinued during WWII as it was so simular to Hitler's Nazi salute. Peace be to all.
I want to know why Gazette staff has disabled the 64 comments on the original article about this? Are the comments being made there,not to the Gazette line of thinking? Or media hiding the truths from the public?
sacongo, if you really want to blow the minds of people who think the Pledge and associated rituals are somehow sacred, tell them about the Bellamy salute.
Borders, language, culture. Those are three main roots that build a Nation. Once you allow anything to alter that base...what you end up with is..Yugoslavia!
Prejudice again rears its ugly head. Did your European ancestors ever stop speaking their language? They may have learned enough English to get by, but my guess is they didn't stop until they died, I figure. Although English is becoming a universal language, it is still not official in the US. ----- Did the Native Americans make the Europeans speak their language? NO!!! The forefathers of this country had some pretty big egos. ----- This is 2008 folks. The english language is not better or more superior than any other. Stop teaching your kids that its OK to be prejudice. My kids are Americans, multi-racial, and trilingual. They will be able to get better paying jobs in the future because they can speak Spanish and French fluently, as well as English. The next language we will tackle is Mandarin, because it is fast becoming a global language.
Are you kidding me. If you are going to bring up the founding fathers and history, Let's get the American history facts straight. First of all, the founding fathers did not write the Pledge of Allegiance. It was written in 1892 by a Baptist minister by the name of Francis Bellamy (1855-1931) for a magazine, The Youth's Companion. Secondly, the pledge did not originally contain the words 'to the Flag of the United States of America' or 'under God' . The former phrase was changed in the mid 1920s by the National Flag Conference. The latter phrase was added by Congress following a campaign by the Knights of Columbus. Therefore, given that the founding fathers did not write the Pledge of Allegiance, it is likely that they would not care what language is spoken to recite it.
I understand the passion of this debate. I see both sides. My opinion is that the essence of our country is enshrined in the Constitution and our Bill of Rights. The first amendment comes to mind, and with our freedom of speech, the courts have found that it is also coupled with the freedom of expression. I guess I just don't take it all the personally if someone chooses to express themselves differently. In fact I think that it is what makes America great.
I doubt if our founding fathers wanted the Pledge of Allegiance to be read in any other language other than our own language. If they can read the pledge they should be able to speak it in English.
What difference does it matter what language the pledge is spoken in, as long as it is heartfelt? I agree that immigrants to the US should learn English and possibly also learn the pledge in English. But that is really a different matter. If anyone chooses to say the pledge in another language, it makes the promises in the pledge no less valid. And our constitution gives them the right to do so. ... and to mymaro: I think you're listening to too much rap; the word is ludicrous
What is so wrong with saying the pledge in another language it's not like the words are being changed to disgrace the United States. We have a variety of different cultures living within the U.S. who have the ability to speak two languages. Are you saying that even though they are Americans living in the United States they arent aloud to say the pledge in their native language they must say it in English? This discrimination needs to stop, your living in the United States it doesnt matter what language you speak your still an American I just wish other people saw it that way.
I would like to think that if it comes from the heart the language doesn't matter.but when i see pictures of another country's flag flying on top of the stars and stripes i will continue to have doubts.
i don't see how if you come here to live and work. You can be honorable to both your home country and the US. Is that like saying Miller IS the best Beer while Drinking A BUD? Learn and speak English if you want to live here. Like all of the Previous immigrant have for the last 200 years have.
Just to let people know we have 2 son-in-laws that come from other countries. one is mexican and he became a us citizen and learned to talk english. our daughter in law and her husband and even our grand daughter is from viet nam and they became us citizens and learned english. see it can be done. if u r going to live here for any period of time learn the language as well as customes etc.
The only people who spoke English when they got here were the English. So if your of any other decent your ancestors would have first learned the pledge in their native language.
We live in a globalized society where each country must engage with the others. How are we to spread our democratic ideals if our beliefs, as given in the pledge are given solely in English?
Nice try, garyprimer, but the bait's a little transparent.
I demand that everyone who voted "Yes" on this board stop using words like burrito, quiche, cappuccino, coup d'etat, and, in fact, most words in the English language, since they had their foundations in Latin, Greek and (gasp!) Sanskrit.
This shouldn't even be a question. We pledge for america not any other country. I mean we are in america not any other country so why would we sing it in any other lanuage. I don't have a problem with any other race but if you are in our country you should respect out ways and the way we do things and if you don't like it then go back where ever you came from. You come here for a better life then understand that we have a certin ways of doing things. I rest my case....USA
Hey, ordieman: With all due respect to you and our other servicemen and women, husbandofmath was not referring to you in his comment. He was referring to the man in the article. Read it and you will see what husbandofmath is really saying.
At one time in Germany, Hitler had an idea of how he wanted to treat people who were different also. I believe that's what American soldiers fought to defeat.
We're all imigrants going back far enough. I can't believe people get so bent out of shape over such inconsequential things when we have people in this country without healthcare, proper education, and some even without homes. It's time we focus on what really matters.
What if I'm a loyal American, but I dress differently than most Americans while I'm reciting the Pledge of Allegiance; is this disrespectful also? Seeing most American flags are now made in China, how could it be wrong to say the Pledge in Chinese?
I dont believe our forefathers fought and died for the right to speak English. I think they did that fighting and dying for the concepts enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Emancipation Proclamation and a host of other documents. For someone to say that the Pledge should be said in English only is to trivialize those concepts and the Pledge.
I can't believe that 61% of the people voting would find it offensive for a person to pledge allegiance to the United States in a different language. It's not the language that matters, it's the meaning of the words and the ideals that go with what they're saying. One Nation Under God...Indivisible... apparently not...
As long as we are judging people, I was wondering if it is alright to recite the "pledge" by using sign language? Anyone who is different must be wrong, right?
I had a Spanish Professor in college who said she could only pray in Spanish because she felt like the words had more meaning in her native language. That's how I feel about the Pledge of Allegiance. To me, it will never have the same meaning when spoken in another language. Just because I feel this way does not mean I am not tolerant of other cultures and opposed to diversity. I'm sure others would agree.
its just stupid that this is even a discussion. if you respect the flag, the country and the people in it, it shouldnt matter what language its spoken in.
husbandofmath, how can you make that assumption? i am in the service and i have all kinds of respect for our host nations. i hate it when people like you who listen to cnn and make judgements on their reporting.
"With Liberty and Justice for all." Does the pledge indicate that people who speak spanish are not allowed to this premise of the pledge? Saying words are only words; shouldn't someone who beleives and recite the pledge actually beleive what it stands for?
anyone can pledge allegiance to our country in any language they want. that is how we all got here, from other countries. i find it disgusting that a service man who has seen other parts of the world still has no respect for anyone but himself.
We don't have an official language. Is it really offensive to be diverse?
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Mar 30, 2008 at 1:35 p.m.
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I see nothing wrong with anyone say the Pledge of Allegiance in any language, as long as it is heart felt. But I will say people DO need to be able to converse in English in this country.
If I were to move to Poland right now, I would be at a terrible disadvantage not knowing and using their language. I think it would be terribly unfair for me to expect them to learn English because I can't speak Polish.
But a pledge is a promise that should be heartfelt.
Mar 20, 2008 at 8:53 p.m.
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"our country has become so distracted (thanks liberals)"
Its Britney Spears' fault, not the liberals!
Mar 18, 2008 at 8:51 a.m.
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Wow. From looking at some of these comments, it is very apparent that Janesville is still pretty much a very caucasian blue-collar town. Some people who posted to this thread need to get out of town once and a while and become a little more diverse. They sound like racist rednecks.
Mar 17, 2008 at 9:18 p.m.
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Ever heard of "When in Rome do as the Roman's do"? In other words when out in public speak english. In your own home speak what you want. Many of our forefathers did just this. Why is it so wrong now and why is it so hard to understand the concept?
Mar 17, 2008 at 7:11 p.m.
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I think that it's wonderful that in the USA we have the freedom and choice to learn other languages, it's kinda neat to know that our students can learn another culture, and apply it to our own, so I think that inviting the SPANISH CLUB to say our pledge in the language they have learned.
What I personally WOULDN'T agree with is if we were forced to learn our pledge in another language, or they had to say a daily Spanish version. THAT'S where I think it would cross the line.
Mar 17, 2008 at 6:51 p.m.
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It seems that our lack of standards is why our country has become so distracted (thanks liberals) and our military (having its own standards) has become so strong. What would happen to a country in chaos who has a strong military??
Hmmmmmmmm
I'm not saying as a country, we should all conform. We each, as individuals, need a certain level of independence to enjoy our own creativity.
However, as we all know, we are stronger unified. During times like these, I think we all could benefit from that kind of strength.
Mar 17, 2008 at 6:03 p.m.
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""Assimilation is what our immigrant ancestors strived for, not losing their customs and tradiions, but rather fitting into the broader American culture.""
Welcome to the AmeriBorg....
Mar 17, 2008 at 2:15 p.m.
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The Pledge of Allegiance is just that....a "Pledge" by our citizens. America has always been a "Melting Pot" of people from around the globe. It doesn't metter what language we speak, it's a pledge of patriotism. Whether they are from Africa, France, Mexico or Iraq, as long as they are here legally, they are still Americans. What a Great Country we live in...enjoy it!
Mar 17, 2008 at 11:04 a.m.
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Isn't it great that there is a local public school that still begins the school day with a PA of the Pledge?
*
I have been to many local government meetings where the pledge is not even recited.
*
Assimilation is what our immigrant ancestors strived for, not losing their customs and tradiions, but rather fitting into the broader American culture.
*
Requiring English as our primary language does not preclude anyone speaking their native tongue - it simply serves to assimilate and bond all Americans together, regardless of your native land, or skin color, or religion.
Mar 17, 2008 at 8:53 a.m.
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Tis a wonderful nation we live in where we can share information and viewpoints. Many have written some wonderful points throughout this discussion and some very prejudice ones have been expressed as well. They say prejudice is born of fear. DanHartung you are right, folks ought to know the truth about the pledge they consider so sacred and American. You have inspired me to tell more of the story and I hope you will add any omitted details about the pledge and it's author. Yes folks, it's true. There was more to the Pledge of Allegiance that people seem to have forgotten. The original salute was not the right hand over heart as children have been taught to demonstrate for more than 65 years. The author's salute had people face the flag and during the pledge they were to extend the right arm in the flag's direction with the palm of the hand facing down. This practice was discontinued during WWII as it was so simular to Hitler's Nazi salute. Peace be to all.
Mar 16, 2008 at 7:34 p.m.
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I want to know why Gazette staff has disabled the 64 comments on the original article about this?
Are the comments being made there,not to the Gazette line of thinking? Or media hiding the truths from the public?
Just a couple thoughts~
Mar 16, 2008 at 6:34 p.m.
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sacongo,
Nice post...you inspired me to research, and your right...thanks!
Mar 16, 2008 at 6:32 p.m.
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sacongo, if you really want to blow the minds of people who think the Pledge and associated rituals are somehow sacred, tell them about the Bellamy salute.
Mar 16, 2008 at 3:01 p.m.
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Borders, language, culture. Those are three main roots that build a Nation. Once you allow anything to alter that base...what you end up with is..Yugoslavia!
Mar 16, 2008 at 11:21 a.m.
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Prejudice again rears its ugly head. Did your European ancestors ever stop speaking their language? They may have learned enough English to get by, but my guess is they didn't stop until they died, I figure. Although English is becoming a universal language, it is still not official in the US.
-----
Did the Native Americans make the Europeans speak their language? NO!!!
The forefathers of this country had some pretty big egos.
-----
This is 2008 folks. The english language is not better or more superior than any other. Stop teaching your kids that its OK to be prejudice. My kids are Americans, multi-racial, and trilingual. They will be able to get better paying jobs in the future because they can speak Spanish and French fluently, as well as English. The next language we will tackle is Mandarin, because it is fast becoming a global language.
Mar 16, 2008 at 11:20 a.m.
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Are you kidding me. If you are going to bring up the founding fathers and history, Let's get the American history facts straight. First of all, the founding fathers did not write the Pledge of Allegiance. It was written in 1892 by a Baptist minister by the name of Francis Bellamy (1855-1931) for a magazine, The Youth's Companion. Secondly, the pledge did not originally contain the words 'to the Flag of the United States of America' or 'under God' . The former phrase was changed in the mid 1920s by the National Flag Conference. The latter phrase was added by Congress following a campaign by the Knights of Columbus. Therefore, given that the founding fathers did not write the Pledge of Allegiance, it is likely that they would not care what language is spoken to recite it.
Mar 16, 2008 at 8:18 a.m.
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I understand the passion of this debate. I see both sides. My opinion is that the essence of our country is enshrined in the Constitution and our Bill of Rights. The first amendment comes to mind, and with our freedom of speech, the courts have found that it is also coupled with the freedom of expression. I guess I just don't take it all the personally if someone chooses to express themselves differently. In fact I think that it is what makes America great.
Mar 16, 2008 at 8:02 a.m.
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I doubt if our founding fathers wanted the Pledge of Allegiance to be read in any other language other than our own language. If they can read the pledge they should be able to speak it in English.
Mar 15, 2008 at 10:39 p.m.
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Drat! Foiled again.
Mar 15, 2008 at 7:52 p.m.
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What difference does it matter what language the pledge is spoken in, as long as it is heartfelt? I agree that immigrants to the US should learn English and possibly also learn the pledge in English. But that is really a different matter. If anyone chooses to say the pledge in another language, it makes the promises in the pledge no less valid. And our constitution gives them the right to do so.
... and to mymaro: I think you're listening to too much rap; the word is ludicrous
Mar 15, 2008 at 6:04 p.m.
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What is so wrong with saying the pledge in another language it's not like the words are being changed to disgrace the United States. We have a variety of different cultures living within the U.S. who have the ability to speak two languages. Are you saying that even though they are Americans living in the United States they arent aloud to say the pledge in their native language they must say it in English? This discrimination needs to stop, your living in the United States it doesnt matter what language you speak your still an American I just wish other people saw it that way.
Mar 15, 2008 at 5:25 p.m.
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I would like to think that if it comes from the heart the language doesn't matter.but when i see pictures of another country's flag flying on top of the stars and stripes i will continue to have doubts.
Mar 15, 2008 at 2:35 p.m.
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i don't see how if you come here to live and work. You can be honorable to both your home country and the US. Is that like saying Miller IS the best Beer while Drinking A BUD? Learn and speak English if you want to live here. Like all of the Previous immigrant have for the last 200 years have.
Mar 15, 2008 at 1:19 p.m.
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not very peaceful, peacegirl...
Mar 15, 2008 at 11:49 a.m.
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THIS IS AMERICA! SPEAK ENGLISH OR GO BACK TO YOUR OWN COUNTRY,EITHER THAT OR BECOME A TELE-MARKETER.
Mar 15, 2008 at 9:42 a.m.
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Just to let people know we have 2 son-in-laws that come from other countries. one is mexican and he became a us citizen and learned to talk english. our daughter in law and her husband and even our grand daughter is from viet nam and they became us citizens and learned english. see it can be done. if u r going to live here for any period of time learn the language as well as customes etc.
Mar 15, 2008 at 9:31 a.m.
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"ordieman" i didn't make any aassumption ! i based my comments on the mans own words. i also don't watch cnn but you made that assumption!
Mar 15, 2008 at 9:17 a.m.
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The only people who spoke English when they got here were the English. So if your of any other decent your ancestors would have first learned the pledge in their native language.
We live in a globalized society where each country must engage with the others. How are we to spread our democratic ideals if our beliefs, as given in the pledge are given solely in English?
Mar 15, 2008 at 9 a.m.
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Nice try, garyprimer, but the bait's a little transparent.
I demand that everyone who voted "Yes" on this board stop using words like burrito, quiche, cappuccino, coup d'etat, and, in fact, most words in the English language, since they had their foundations in Latin, Greek and (gasp!) Sanskrit.
Mar 15, 2008 at 3:58 a.m.
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This shouldn't even be a question. We pledge for america not any other country. I mean we are in america not any other country so why would we sing it in any other lanuage. I don't have a problem with any other race but if you are in our country you should respect out ways and the way we do things and if you don't like it then go back where ever you came from. You come here for a better life then understand that we have a certin ways of doing things. I rest my case....USA
Mar 15, 2008 at 1:16 a.m.
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Does xenophobia ring a bell my redneck friends?!
Mar 15, 2008 at 12:06 a.m.
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Say it in Enlgish or don't say it at all!
Mar 14, 2008 at 8:43 p.m.
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Hey, ordieman: With all due respect to you and our other servicemen and women, husbandofmath was not referring to you in his comment. He was referring to the man in the article. Read it and you will see what husbandofmath is really saying.
Mar 14, 2008 at 2:39 p.m.
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At one time in Germany, Hitler had an idea of how he wanted to treat people who were different also. I believe that's what American soldiers fought to defeat.
Mar 14, 2008 at 2:22 p.m.
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I can't believe that there are so many people that fear the English language. How can they be so narrow-minded and prejudiced?
Mar 14, 2008 at 2:21 p.m.
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If you want to live in America learn to speak the language and that includes pledging to the flag!!!!!
Mar 14, 2008 at 2:20 p.m.
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We're all imigrants going back far enough. I can't believe people get so bent out of shape over such inconsequential things when we have people in this country without healthcare, proper education, and some even without homes. It's time we focus on what really matters.
Mar 14, 2008 at 2:20 p.m.
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What if I'm a loyal American, but I dress differently than most Americans while I'm reciting the Pledge of Allegiance; is this disrespectful also?
Seeing most American flags are now made in China, how could it be wrong to say the Pledge in Chinese?
Mar 14, 2008 at 2:12 p.m.
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I dont believe our forefathers fought and died for the right to speak English. I think they did that fighting and dying for the concepts enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Emancipation Proclamation and a host of other documents. For someone to say that the Pledge should be said in English only is to trivialize those concepts and the Pledge.
Mar 14, 2008 at 1:52 p.m.
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The key is not what the meaning is to the observer, but to the pledger.
Mar 14, 2008 at 1:49 p.m.
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I have a question... what if by translating the Pledge you change its meaning? Things don't always translate literally from language to language.
Mar 14, 2008 at 1:47 p.m.
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If you use American Sign Language. (I hope you already anticipated a remark like this. This is my Devil's Advocate coming out of course).
Mar 14, 2008 at 1:44 p.m.
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I can't believe that 61% of the people voting would find it offensive for a person to pledge allegiance to the United States in a different language. It's not the language that matters, it's the meaning of the words and the ideals that go with what they're saying. One Nation Under God...Indivisible... apparently not...
Mar 14, 2008 at 1:34 p.m.
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As long as we are judging people, I was wondering if it is alright to recite the "pledge" by using sign language? Anyone who is different must be wrong, right?
Mar 14, 2008 at 1:24 p.m.
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I had a Spanish Professor in college who said she could only pray in Spanish because she felt like the words had more meaning in her native language. That's how I feel about the Pledge of Allegiance. To me, it will never have the same meaning when spoken in another language. Just because I feel this way does not mean I am not tolerant of other cultures and opposed to diversity. I'm sure others would agree.
Mar 14, 2008 at 12:47 p.m.
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My mistake, I meant H.R. 997.
Mar 14, 2008 at 12:33 p.m.
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its just stupid that this is even a discussion. if you respect the flag, the country and the people in it, it shouldnt matter what language its spoken in.
Mar 14, 2008 at 12:26 p.m.
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to chelleandlou- H.R. 977 is still pending in the US House of Representatives.
Mar 14, 2008 at 11:49 a.m.
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husbandofmath, how can you make that assumption? i am in the service and i have all kinds of respect for our host nations. i hate it when people like you who listen to cnn and make judgements on their reporting.
Mar 14, 2008 at 11:20 a.m.
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We do have an official language. Congress voted on it. English is the official language of the United States.
Mar 14, 2008 at 10:50 a.m.
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"With Liberty and Justice for all." Does the pledge indicate that people who speak spanish are not allowed to this premise of the pledge?
Saying words are only words; shouldn't someone who beleives and recite the pledge actually beleive what it stands for?
Mar 14, 2008 at 9:53 a.m.
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anyone can pledge allegiance to our country in any language they want. that is how we all got here, from other countries. i find it disgusting that a service man who has seen other parts of the world still has no respect for anyone but himself.
Mar 14, 2008 at 9:50 a.m.
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I see nothing wrong with it, greengina8.
Mar 14, 2008 at 9:45 a.m.
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We don't have an official language. Is it really offensive to be diverse?
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