Churches to open shelter

Whine, whine, whine ... oh, I'm sorry, that was Mikki I was referring to ... whine, whine, whine.

Dartplayer, thank you for sharing those stories. Maybe telling them will change some minds. I've seen similar things happen, and it makes it almost impossible to turn the other cheek.

If anyone else attended mass Saturday evening at St John Vianney, you know what I am going to say. Father told us of two touching stories. His voice cracking during them both. He told us how JR was found to be on the missing persons list in Arkansas. His parents reported him missing and just wanted to know their son was alive. During his time at the homeless shelter, he made phone contact with his parents in Arkansas and has since been reuinited. Perhaps something that would have never taken place had St John Vianney not opened their doors and had a homeless JR not come there. The 2nd story Father told us was the shelter didn't open until 7pm. However, several of the homeless men arrived early, found the shovels for the church, and began clearing the sidewalks before the volunteers got there. Their thanks, in their own way. When we arrived at 5pm mass Sat, one of the homeless men was holding the door open for all the members. How sad that some of you are not willing to see the good this is doing and what this means to the homeless. I guess it is easier to turn the other cheek and pretend we do not have a problem in this town, huh?

Hmmm...I didn't see anyone attacking anyone over someone trying to help. I saw differing opinions. Just because someone's opinion differs from yours doesn't mean they have an 'evil soul'. But I will pray for you, since you're so judgmental. Calling people ignorant and idiots on other posts...being sarcastic about Beloit's crime rate.

You people are a trip. This is a good- warm-hearted story about compasion and some of you (you know who you are), turn it into a forum for attacking people who want to help their fellow man. You should be ashamed of yourselves. I will pray for your evil souls.

I'd bet the "nay sayers" wouldn't care so much if they got something out of it...

This is the first blog I have ever visited. I wonder if they're all like this-- great, on-topic discussion intermingled with toxic personal attacks that have nothing to do with the topic? "Experts" quoting their interpretation of laws? If this is the case, this will be my last visit. Ick.

This topic is of great interest to me for a number of reasons. I acknowledge there are many experts in our community with more experience in social services and homelessness. They are already tapped, or they'd be doing something about the issues. Or they've become too jaded to care, in which case a career change is in order.

As I see it, the GIFTS task force is doing this because the need is there-- as previously stated there are homeless men sleeping in dumpsters, behind your bushes, under your porch, in your car--wherever--on a cold, snowy night. Is the task force going to solve the problem with a week in a warm church basement? No. But will they have made a difference? Of course. At least we hope so. They are VOLUNTEERS who have come together to try to do something good for other human beings who deserve to be treated with dignity, regardless of their current station in life, decisions they've made, or bad luck they've encountered. Naive? Maybe. Hearts in the right place? You bet.

It seems the "nay sayers" on this blog are not denying there is a problem. Maybe they just don't feel it's right to try to fix it. I can't imagine what's in their hearts and heads, and I don't intend to find out. All I know is there are good people in this community doing good things (look around... it's everywhere!) with no need for a "thank you," tax deduction, or pat on the back. They are doing it because they acknowledge the need and want to try to make a difference.

While I consider myself to be a "good" Christian, this is not all about religion. It is about basic human kindness, something I'd imagine even the Wiccans believe in. Maybe. I can't say I know for sure.

For those of you out there who support what the GIFTS task force is doing, please say a little prayer that it's a success. And if you come in contact with people who could benefit, please spread the word.

Merry Christmas, everyone!

Joejack. Thanks for the response. I do give time, money, and items to help out...not as much as possible, but I do.

When I give, this question is still in my mind. Are we standing in the way of someone finding a better life because we give just enough to subside so they are not in critical situation that requires them to do something to help themselves.

My best memories of helping someone were when they were working hard to undo the past but hit a roadblock. I have on occasion stepped in to move the roadblock so they could continue on their journey. If I interfere to much, they could lose their way to success.

I know it is just a place to sleep and get a meal, but couple that with many other resources and they might not continue their journey to success.

I am not saying this is wrong to do ( the churches giving a place to stay) I just get caught up on am I really helping, or getting in the way.

Oh, sorry tnjcj.

HA! I just cannot believe how most of you so easily get off subject and turn most posts into a personal attack on each other. This is about helping people in need, which is a great thing at christmas time and during winter. We don't know these peoples circumstances and that they are just losers who are taking advantage of the churches. I am sure that each of us have all been in a situation where we could use a little help to get back on our feet. Everything has to be so politicaly correct, whatever happened to just helping someone out. Merry Christmas.

housewife--thanks for the reminder. Yes, it was Ebenezer. I watched the Mickey Mouse version of "A Christmas Carol" last week and I chuckled when he said that line, although it was a little bit less scholarly than that so the kids could understand. In my opinion, it's such an absurd line--eradicate the less fortunate by ignoring them.

SFCM: It's in Act 1 of A Christmas Carol. Scrooge says it to Bob Crachitt in reference to a man that is collecting money for the poor. It's meant to show his hard heart, that if the poor were allowed to starve, they wouldn't be around to starve anymore.
He realizes the error of his ways when he sees a tiny crutch, without its owner (Tiny Tim) in the second to last act.
And guess what Mikki- I didn't have to Google that. Janesville PAC did a GREAT performance of this last week. Great job, Janesville Players!

Mikki, stop picking on tnjcj just because she doesn't know what I'm dealing with.

WE CAN ALL HAVE A GREAT DAY WITHOUT E-WIFEY TODAY!!! SHE'S GOING TO TURE OF HER BLACKBERRY!!!SHE'S WORKING ON GETTING A LIFE! WE CAN ONLY HOPE.......

Someone's busy Googling things to make themselves sound all-knowing.
Pul--eeeze

tnjcj pretends to know something by writing:In reference to novel nucleic acid affinity probes?
No, you don't USE biotinylated antibodies in PCR or Northerns, HELLO!!!! In reference to diaminobenzine detection of specific proteins by biotinylated antibodies. THe tissue in questioned is fixed with 4% PFA.

I don't know too much about Scrooge, so I'm not sure who that quote belongs to.

I wasn't going to access this blog today, but I was curious to see if the tone had changed. Thank you to joejack and jd for giving me hope. The spirit of Christmas is alive and well. Smiles are contagious (and they don't cost a thing!) God Bless everyone who took the time to speak from the heart. I am going to tell those I love this Christmas that I do love them. We can all be thankful that there are people in the community who do have compassion for others. At an given time, that person could be me, or someone I love.

sfcm- Wasn't it Scrooge who said "No money for the poor! It will reduce the surplus population!"

Benthinkin – Thank you for posting. Yes in a sense that is the way it should work. The churches are not doing this because people deserve it. They are doing this to show mercy. Even though some may not deserve the help, we do it anyway. Why? Because none of us are good. Please read joejack Dec 17, 2007 at 5:15 p.m.

This is not a slam against anyone on this blog ok. The church understands that God demonstrated his love towards us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. We are all sinners in Gods sight. Filthy, Wretched, Poor, Homeless, undeserving of God’s love. God still sent his son to pay our fine for breaking his Law (The Ten Commandments). What does that have to do with helping people? EVERYTHING!! “Christian” means (Little Christ’s) so if we are to follow his example we are to give of ourselves and our lives, lovingly and freely even to those who don’t deserve it.

The only thing you said wrong is [“This gave me pride and a sense of I can handle anything after that.”] Did you ever stop to think that God was with you that whole time, giving you the strength to endure that time? Did you ever thank Him and give him full credit for restoring you? Who do you think allowed those jobs to be available when you needed them? I am not chastising you; I am just asking you think about it. The bible also tells us that God resist the proud and give grace to the humble. The Glory God wanted for your jobs and for you coming out of the hard times you took from him and gave it to yourself. You don’t have to agree with that just think about it for awhile.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

I understand the whole struggle with helping people vs. people doing whatever it takes to get themselves out of that mess. I guess I fall more to the area of helping people because sometimes you get so far down a "road" it is also impossible to get back on your own. Again, this is not costing "us" anything. I truly believe only good will come from this. Sure you will have some that take advantage of it or don't change, but should that really stop us from trying? What if teachers gave up on the kids who could not read?

by just giving money to charity, are we perpetuating the population of the people that the charity is helping?

I don't think giving someone a shower, food and a bed for a night during the cold winter nights is going to cause someone who is homeless to choose to continue being homeless.

I am torn about this issue as I can see the good in helping someone out in a bad situation. However, is it really helping by just giving. I was taught that you worked your way through...somehow.

When my parents were going through some financial times, they were offered help from the family church. My dad instead worked out a deal to janitor for them in exchange for the help. Years later when I was out of work for a long time, I found odd jobs doing whatever it took, part time, cash jobs, in exchange for items etc. This gave me pride and a sense of I can handle anything after that.

Are we in a way perpetuating helplessness by just giving instead of having someone work it off???

Evansvillemom...I will be driving through your fair town on Christmas Day on my way to my parents home. Could I please stop by and give you a holiday fruitcake?

momof5 makes a good point, we don't know what our neighbors are like behind closed doors and when we can't see them. For years we lived next to a family (good neighborhood, whatever that is, etc) and everything was normal. They volunteered, they coached both adult and children's teams, they held community bbqs...and that "normal" stuff. Turns out she had an alcohol addiction which made her spend much to much on both booze and items that she'd buy after her boozing to make it look like they were "normal". He was a convicted sex offender from another town and would troll the city at night. We trusted them. This homeless situation could have easily been her, yet she was a good person, etc. He has since passed away and she is actually involved in her church in MN and her kids are both in college completing degrees. Now normal is what I consider my new neighbors. They shovel everyday, five times a day, he walks around the house in his boxers, windows open for all of us to see and they feed the squirrels Mike n Ikes...cuz they like them. But, they aren't afraid to show their oddness. :) God love them.

I was wondering if you Itemize evansvillehousewife because doing so is "taking advantage of tax breaks". These churches are just sitting on the land the are on for free. They pay mortgages, they have overhead, they still need to pay power and light. You really need to learn to lighten up a bit and see both sides from time to time. I'd love to see your side, but you can be quite offensive and rude and it's tough to respect your opinion.

proartist i was just wondering if you were living near one of these churches?

Thought about wadding into this pool full of allegators with a few lines of my own but....
All I can say is I am thankful for people who want to help and that I don't live in Evansville.

Wow, I am glad that so many have taken such an interest in this topic.

This is a wonderful thing that's happening! All you people who need to be negative, go protest in front of the church then! No? Too lazy or what?

The housewife is insane, people! Do not debate her she will only attack you, look up your personal information, and disgust you. She feeds on your anger. Ignore her.

Sorry...full URL is:
http://works.bepress.com/
cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=
1000&context=
daniel_lennington

http://works.bepress.com/daniel_lenningt...
Learn how churches ARE exempted by RLUIPA from the ordinances and laws everyone else is required to obey. There has already been used for leverage before in Janesville. Download the entire article for enlightenment.

Perhaps if I believed in the Bible, I would read it. Thanks anyway!

Mikki maybe you should read your quotes.

Mikki Dec 17, 2007 at 3:19 p.m.[“There are other shelters, but they have rules and regulations.”] Did I interpret wrong? From your statements the churches shouldn’t be involved because they have no rules and regulations, there for in your mind they doing something wrong. You made the statement. Next time clarify what you say.

Mikki Dec 17, 2007 at 3:19 p.m. [“Churches can get away with things”]
If I said you are getting away with something, how would you take that? It would imply that I think you have done something wrong and are trying not to get caught. Therefore violating a law, the law, some law whatever. Next time clarify what you say.

Truth is you have violated a Law, God’s Law. Please read joejack Dec 17, 2007 at 5:15 p.m.

Remember to Read your Bible everyday and obey what is says.

Hmmm, Joejack, where did I say churces violated any laws? You seem to have so much time to look up my quotes. And where did I say, or even intimate that we should 'exterminate' those less fortunate?
Momof5, the only reason I brought up what I do is to say that I come in contact with the homeless. If you think that was asking for a pat on the back for my contribution to society, you're sadly mistaken.
Amazing that people can just get so uptight about someone else's opinion, especially when it was done without malice.

e-wifey i'm bad i guess i didn't care enough to remember how many children you have from your rants on how you have paid off your land(opps almost paid)and house early. grow up and get a life!!! we all work hard in life some have more compassion then others.after reading your posts you are really uptight and no sense of reality. maybe sometime in the near future for your families well being you could take a day off!!!!!

Bottom line....these folks need help and this group of people are doing what they can to help out. We should be thankful that these people care enough to reach out and help others that are not as lucky as we are. Some day it could be us, or our kids or a family member that is down and out and just needs someone to love on them:)

evillehwife
You're clearly well educated and have many sound opinions but it always upsets me when well educated people can't play well with others. You seem to have bought in to the pop trend of cultural warfare and to have been dehumanized by the chat board interface. There are people behind these posts simply trying to make sense of the news in a modern public square. Your uncivil behavior degrades from the potential contributions of your reasoning.

So, bash away.

evansvillehousewife--no, I like seriously, um, ok, totally, like don't rely on a TV show to help me draw accurate depictions of people's lives. It was meant as a little "food for thought." Like, I'm sure if your neighbors knew you were on here. They'd probably lock the doors and not let their c-section delivered, formula fed, delivered in a hospital by an obstetrician and not a midwife, messed up kids play with your kids. For some one who claims to have such a grip on reality and is well-rounded you sure could have fooled me! Don't you have housewife'ly duties to attend to?

EVHousewife:

Know anything about enzymatic detection of biotinylated antibodies? Please?

In reference to novel nucleic acid affinity probes?

and ihavealife: I'll hope, not pray, that you learn to read posts and attribute them to the correct author.
Show me where I say I have two children.

momof5...you seriously count on a TV show to inform you about people's lives???

evansville-wifey for being 31 years old you are nasty , uncaring and just low down!!! i'll pray for your 2 children that they grow up to be happy,healty well adjusted adults. with a egg donor like you they are going to need other people watching out 4 them!!! and all the degrees in the world don't make u smart and that's all i have to say about that(*_*)

I have no doubt that the people you deal with, Mikki, continue to make poor life choices. Ones that hinder them from helping or bettering themselves. I have a brother-in-law like that. The whole family was really pulling for him to get it together this time. Sadly, a bad habit (heroin) is hard to break and he is back on the path of self-destruction within only 10 months of his latest release from prison. Would I want "him" housed in my backyard at a sheltler being back on "the crap"....probably not. However, my hope would be that the barriers and background checks the churches have put into place would prevent that from happening. And, how naive of us to think that our own neighbors don't have issues that these men could possibly have (just because you own a home, have 2 car payments, credit card debt, 2.4 kids and a dog doesn't make you without fault or incapable of having a drug, alcohol or emotional problem). Catch the show on Showtime once called "Weeds." Everyone has a story and everyone has skeletons: no matter how squeaky clean their outward appearance seems.

Patsyanne-
Christmas is nothing more than a shopping spree and a pagan celebration. Jesus was born in the fall, most likely Septemeber. The Christmas tree has Wiccan origins from the promise of green returning after a winter of white. Hence the evergreen and not a maple tree.

ihavealife- Um, OK. I'll think hard about my non-existent job as a fulltime wife and mother. Meanwhile, I have a research article to publich and a protocol to troubleshoot. Know anything about enzymatic detection of biotinylated antibodies? Please?

I'm going to pray for all of the authors who posted to this blog. It's Christmas time. What about compassion? I wish more people in the community would share love at Christmas, instead of negative attitudes, typing on their computers in their warm houses.

Mikki, What I was trying to get across was what I call a "Sunday Christian." One pretends to be this almighty do-gooder and then as soon as one thinks no one is looking, the real persona emerges--Cussing, flipping people off, shaking and pointing fingers, judging, etc.., I haven't a clue who you are, Mikki, so it'd be absurd of me to (or you for that matter) take literal my use of the word "you" in my prior post. I'm not saying that is happening to me, or that you are doing those things.

Live life by the golden rule--do unto others as you would want done unto you. And, no one likes a martyr. Don't get up on the pulpit and talk of all the charity work (you) have done, (your) countles hours of volunteer work and the numerous cash donations (you) have made in an effort to gain recognition or a pat on the back. Good will is nullified when it is followed up by a request for a thank you card!

Hey Mikki - Dec 17, 2007 at 3:19 p.m [“any outcry makes the speaker look cold-hearted and unchristian”]. I assumed you were a Christian that was crying out against helping people. I’m sorry. Well Mikki that’s great that you had the ability to make good and sound decisions financially, and when it comes to you and your family. So why don’t we just go out and exterminate those varmints that pollute our streets and try to take charity from people WILLING to help them. I’m sorry was that sarcastic? I think it’s sarcastic to say that Churches are violating Laws or should be subject to any governmental laws, and are catering to people who don’t help them selves. Mikki Dec 17, 2007 at 3:19 p.m. [“There is a reason people are homeless and stay that way”].
Mikki Dec 18, 2007 at 9:26 a.m. [“Like calling people names that don't agree with you?”] I have called no names… I agreed with a statement you made about being
Mikki Dec 17, 2007 at 3:19 p.m. [“cold-hearted and unchristian”] If that offends you stop calling your self that.

Ok lets take away all sarcasm and finger pointing and selective Christian love. By the way the churches selected Homeless Men. If for some reason you think I would not extend the same respect and compassion to any of you if you were the ones in need of help, then I am truly sorry for sarcasm and my Judgmental and selective Christian Love. proartist Dec 18, 2007 at 9:49 a.m. [“judgmental and selective Christian love”].

The problem is when we elevate ourselves above the suffering of another and say that could never happen to me. I submit that many of these families, men, and women never thought or set out to end up in the situation that they are in. To sit here and cast blame on them, and to chastise the church who wants to help them with out you is mind boggling at the least. It does not insult me, it does not offend me, I just can not understand how anyone could be so ungrateful for all the things we have. If we were truly grateful and honest with ourselves that we don’t deserve any thing we have. Giving one homeless man a place to sleep and something to eat becomes so little in comparison to what you have. That bloody guy on a stick evansvillehousewife Dec 18, 2007 at 10:09 [“if praying to a bloody guy on a stick”] chose to go there for YOU! Please read my post joejack Dec 17, 2007 at 5:15 p.m. Our good works are as filthy rages in His [Gods] sight. We don’t do these things to find favor with God, we do this because we love Him for what Jesus did for us. Please read my post joejack Dec 17, 2007 at 5:15 p.m.

Be mad at what I said, be offended, the question still remains if it were you? If it were you? Don’t say it will never be us, don’t say it could never happen to us.
October 29, 1929
I’m done, With no Sarcasm, Truly have a Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year everyone.

MikeF, I don't care who you are or what you do. You don't know who I am or what I do, either. I wasn't talking to you when I said 'educate yourself' but if you feel the need to take it personally, don't blame me.
With what I do, I see people on a daily basis who have severe barriers. These people get the assistance they need.
In case you did not understand, perhaps I did not make myself clear....the homeless men I have come across have made life choices and continue to do so that they remain in their current situation.
Because of that, I would not want them housed near me. Perhaps if you saw what I saw, dealt with what I dealt with, you'd understand.
As I say, I have a right to my opinion. I don't think it's better or worse than others' opinions, but I can speak my mind same as you.
And Momof5, that analogy of me perhaps 'flipping you off' makes no sense. That's not me, and if you have a problem that people are 'flipping you off' when you drive, perhaps you need to look at your driving skills.

jd--thank you for your comments. I just wrote out a long comment and you precisely echoed my sentiments. I'd like to add that the mattresses these churches will be providing are not going to be filthy, evansvillehousewife. If you are trying to make a strong point, it is better to stick with facts.

And while yes, just providing a place to sleep does little to change a life, it is a start. It is hard to people to change when they are hungry and are looking for a place to get warm. I truly believe this is the first step...will it changed everyone's life?...probably not, but if we can offer this and help some make better choices and get off the street...what is wrong with that? We all pay a ton of taxes for services like these, why should we be so upset when a group of people do this out of their own pocket books? When people start to realize there are people out there that truly do care for them, I do believe you will see lives changed.

Why should we always wait from someone else(government) to step in and do something? This service is brought on by a group of people seeing a need and meeting it. I do not think it will fail and I am pretty sure most people do not grow up thinking, boy I want to make life choices that will make me homeless. I think it is great for a group of people to step up and fill a need. It makes me sad that so many bloggers here are against something that only helps people....

a quote from Evansvillehouswife-
"But hey, if praying to a bloody guy on a stick and giving someone a filthy mattress on which to crash for night makes you feel more informed and compassionate, more power to ya."

That is totally uncalled for. You may be intelligent but you have been consistantly arrogant and obnoxious. Now you have crossed over the line to vicious. You obviously have some deep dark problems hidden in your overconfidence that you try to make up for with this sort of garbage.

evansville-wife out of all the people on these boards i have the most compassion and HOPE for you! your life has got too just miserable!!!thats fine u pay taxes,volunteer, involed in your community and all of the other self patting things you do .get a life!!! im not saying wife/mother is a easy job,but maybe you have lost yourself in that world!go find your selfworth and maybe you will find compassion and HOPE again!!!!! I HOPE!

evansvillehousewife...do you itemize your taxes or just fill out the EZ form? If you itemize...shame on you for trying to get a tax break.

Well, since I OWN my home and have several decuctions, (including a couple thousand in charitable donations) I do itemize. The money I earn is my own so I don't get a "tax break"- I get to keep some of MY money.
What is your point, anyway? I was saying that since there are plenty of single mothers that ake in jobless drug addicted men, they should get the same tax exemptions as these churches. How is that uncompassionate?

Mikki, yes the Red Cross helped out...for 3 days. After that it was up to the local community to take over. And do you know where the displaced were housed? At St. John's Lutheran Church at the corner of Parker and Centerway. And guess who stepped up by staying open later and giving them emergency clothing because all they had were literally the clothes on their back? The ECHO Annex. And guess who brought baby formula and diapers for the mother and baby who lived there. Again, ECHO. The Red Cross got the credit, but it was really the local churches and community that helped out there.
Think about what it would really mean to lose absolutely everything you had and have no savings to fall back on.
{"I give to charity and do my volunteer work, and I spend a lot of time with the people who are 'homeless'. Why don't you, and educate yourself}] If you knew who I am and what I have done, you would see how ridiculous that statement really is.

Thank you for confirming that I DO have personal experience by which to witness, MikeF! Help the poor and homeless - as I DO - by all means but do it in a responsible, accountible, and educated manner. Change always comes at a price. Controversy and debate is healthy for a community. However intimidating and criticizing those who have walked-the-walk and can substantiate by experience only demonstrates why things WILL go wrong. Churches have property rights under RLUIPA to do anything they please. Others don't have such total license but were once upon a time protected by reasonable zoning rules, as well as, free speech. Begin the experiment. When it commences, the program is guaranteed to fail for there will be dozens more "malcontents" complaining about the very, very real adverse affects to personal property, health, safety, and even persecution from the shelter's proponents. Guaranteed. Maybe YOU can "drive by and ignore" it but, be ready with that apology to far many more people than me, joejack. We will not be silenced nor forced to move and become homeless just so you can practice your judgmental and selective Christian love. Do pray for the homeless...but also for those homeowners you're endangering and putting into involuntary servitude by "sharing" their property, diminishing their well being, and stealing their peace of mind simply by the misfortune of proximity.

one last thing, and then I am off of here for the day: Albeit under a lot of sarcasim, joejack has some of the most valid points on here. How many of us say "no one knows how to drive...there are bad drivers all over the roads" but out of the other side of our mouths we say "but I am always a good driver." If we were all as good of drivers we make ourselves out to be in our heads, then wouldn't it stand to reason that there couldn't possibly be that many bad drivers out there? Going to church every week, donating to charities, doing volunteer work doesn't make you a good person if you flip me off while pulling out of the church parking lot because I accidentally cut you off. Look in the mirror when you are pointing your finger. And, while doing so, be thankful you have a home with a mirror to be looking in!

BTW, Mikki, I happened to find a lot of truth and humor in what joejack had to say! Conversely, I find a lot of truth in what you are saying as well. Good for you for doing volunteer work and donating to charities: the world would be better if more did so. However, your opinions are just that--YOUR opinion. If you do not agree with these churches, then do not a) worship at them or contribute money to their congregations or b) volunteer at them.

It seems that Janesville, or perhaps this blog, cannot win with many people. Here you have people who saw a need and are taking it upon themselves to help fulfill that need. But, they are being ridiculed and accussed of doing it to just get a tax break, and other mean things. I don't know how many members the gazetteextra.com blog has, but let's just say it's 100. If each of us donated $1 to a food pantry or the United Way, perhaps churches wouldn't have to take matters such as these into their own hands. For $1, a food pantry is able to put together 7 meals. For $1, the United Way is able to purchase 7 blankets. For $100, donated by us bloggers here, that would be enough food for 700 meals, or 700 blankets, or any combination thereof. I know, I know. "We all" donate something every year and you will never hear me disagree with the statement "there are people who get assistance who don't need it." What I am saying though, is that it is easy to get our undies in a bundy over a church setting up a homeless shelter when we are sitting in our warm homes, with clothes on our backs and food in our stomachs. Be more thankful for what you have, and worry less about what you don't have. There is ALWAYS someone out there who is worse off than you! That doesn't go just for material goods. It goes for family too. Accept what and who God has given each of us, embrace it, be happy and HOPE for the future! Like I said, no matter how crappy you think you have it, how unfair life (or tax breaks) is, or how much your family makes your stomach churn....there is always someone out there worse off than you who would gladly take your place! Kudos to these churches and to those of us on this thread who are patting them on the back. Shame on the others who are casting stones! Maybe we all need to watch Tiny Tim and Scrooge again to get the real meaning of the Holidays! MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Wow, joejack nice sarcasm there. Can't communicate any other way? Like calling people names that don't agree with you? How Christian. LOL. I never said I was a Christian, so, thanks for ASSuming. The difference between what I spend my money on and what those in need do is EXACTLY the question. See, I am not homeless. I am not asking for charity. However foolishly I decide to spend MY money, I still am responsible for ME and MY FAMILY. The life choices you make cause you to end up where you do. Okay, there was a fire at 5-Points. The Red Cross helped out. The Lannon Stone did, too. Quit whining about how everyone owes everyone else. Why don't you open up YOUR house to these homeless men? Bet you don't, right?
I give to charity and do my volunteer work, and I spend a lot of time with the people who are 'homeless'. Why don't you, and educate yourself, instead of bashing people for their opinions?

I think this is a wonderful ministry. Frankly, it has always been a shock to me that there is no place for a single homeless man to go in the city of Janesville, although women and men with families are taken care of. Thank you to this task force for seeing a need and stepping up. It's disheartening to see on this blog that it is all too easy to be judgemental and critical about people being nice and caring about those less fortunate; easy to do when one has never been there. Watch the Pursuit of Happyness sometime. It is an eye opener. Merry Christmas!

Would this be different if this was a family of five from the east side whose house burnt down wld it be okay for the church to open their arms to these people who are in need? hmm just like these men are in need....?

We are worried about a Church getting a tax write off.. How sad are people today that we would rather have a person starve to death or freeze to death because we are scared that the Church may be getting a way w/something and not having to follow the same laws...they are helping homeless men not murdering someone.
Are you kidding me these people are addicts and they do this to them selves...WOW I am appalled by the thinking of this..If 9 out of 10 abuse this situation and just "use" the Church for a warm place to stay and 1 person is saved and one person is helped then this was worth more then a silly tax write off this is worth more then some neighbor feeling uncomfortable for one week...this could be the result of someone having their souls saved for eternity and having everlasting life..I would say look back at joejack's and ask yourself do you consider yourself a good person?

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! REALLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??? I THANK THE MAN ABOVE EVERY DAY FOR WHAT HE HAS GIVEN ME,IT MIGHT NOT ALWAYS BE WHAT I THOUGHT I WANTED BUT WHAT HE KNEW I NEEDED.MY FAVORITE WORD IS HOPE!!! IF EVERYONE WOULD JUST BE KINDER AND MORE UNDERSTANDING TO EACH OTHER THINK HOW MUCH EASIER YOUR LIFE WOULD BE!!! HOPE!!!!!!

evansvillehousewife...do you itemize your taxes or just fill out the EZ form? If you itemize...shame on you for trying to get a tax break.

I would just like to say, these Religious leaders are taking on a great deal, yet please do not think that it has come without great research and contemplation. I know for a fact that this has been something that has been in the works for over two years. If this event was just thrown together, it would already be set in place. I don't attend St. John Vianny and I don't know the Priest, but I am familiar with Bethel Baptist Church. My children have attended AWANA there, my children attend school with the Senior Pastor's children, and I have worked with the Pastor's wife within the public schools as a volunteer. We have also attended Bethel in a very sad and sporatic fashion. More due to our family's personal time and history than the work and joy that Bethel gives. These pastors have their own families, extended and otherwise. They give of themselves and ask for nothing in return. I cannot see these men and women invoking the RLUIPA and using that as a basis for their good deeds. They want men to sleep safe, have food and be warm and possibly lead them to a better life. Whether that be through God or not. If you support them, then good for you...volunteer your time, your food or your efforts. If not, look the other way when you drive by their church and pretend that there are not homeless men being sheltered t here. Just as you drive through downtown and pretend that those men aren't sleeping in the alleys, in doorways and in your children's parks.

free_to_be, may you enjoy each day and take each blessing as it comes. Take one day at a time. I am happy for your children. They deserve a father. And I am proud of you, for you deserve a family.

joejack, you are great at communicating through sarcasm. Your point definately came through. Why are people so upset and offended that these churches want to help someone? Does it personally affect you? Definately not. But...if you were to find one of these homeless men taking shelter in your unlocked car, or in your gardening shed, or behind your very sheltering, very large shrub in your back yard, you'd be offended. OUTRAGED EVEN! So why not allow them to sleep somewhere safe. Get guidance and food. No one can make sound choices and good decisions when they are cold, hungry, and tired. Instead of sweeping these individuals "under the rug", and waiting for the government to help them, let's let these couragious souls do their part. Let's hope you never need it, yet even if you do, these people will still take you in. And please do not be so smug as to say it will never happen to you. Horrible things happen to good people. I am not a religious person, but I believe that through some act of kindness, something wonderful will be provided to you. Where that will come from I am unsure, but say a prayer before laying your head on your warm pillow tonight. May you be safe each day and without tragedy.

evansvillehousewife - I ask only one thing for Christmas this year. With all the wisdom and knowledge you have maybe you could come speak to these men. YOUR ignorance is discusting. I wonder if compassion is something you even posses. I hope if you have children they can overcome the ignorance you have.

Hey free to be - a pat on the back to you and Merry Christmas to you and your family. Way to go.

Proartist If helping the homeless men with shelter and food hurts you or someone else. I will post an apology. The fact that this is a [“most difficult and complex controversies:”] tells me a lot about you. See the problem is we all see our selves as good. Do you think you are a good person? Here’s a quick test. Have you ever told a lie, stolen anything, or used God’s name in vain? Jesus said “Whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Have you ever looked at another person with lust? Will you be guilty on Judgment Day? If you have done those things God sees you as a lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterer-at-heart. The Bible warns that if you are guilty you will end up in Hell. That’s not God’s will, He sent His Son to suffer and die on the cross for you. Jesus took your punishment upon Himself:” God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” Then he rose from the dead and defeated death. Please, Repent (turn from sin) and trust in Jesus, and God will grant you everlasting life. Then ready your bible and obey it.

The truth is we are all guilty before God, His wrath abides on us all. The bible says there are none that are good, no not one. Unless we repent and trust in Jesus Christ, God say’s He will pour out his wrath in the day of judgment on us. For anyone to say that they are a good person is calling God a liar.

Hey while your thinking about everything you just read. The only thing these Churches want is to help homeless men with no home and give them something to eat. If something goes wrong. Come back and post 17 times that you were right. If nothing happens than the rest of us will know that we helped another human being in need.

So true joejack. I don't think the people who show up are homeless in the sense you are thinking. I'd be willing to bet most of these guys are not on the streets year-round. Sometimes a guy just needs a place to sleep, because he has nowhere to go. What if this was a shelter for women? Would you all be so against it?
Proartist who are they "knowingly harming"? Huh?

Hi all - I just thought perhaps that I could share my experience of having been one of these men who yes, had an addiction problem. I had been in and out of traditional treatment programs and had times of sucess, but in the end I became one of the individuals we are discussing.

A church provided a room to me, helped me get some food, and encouraged me. Through being with these individuals, I finally saw what I thought I was missing.

I am an average person who had a life that was destroyed by myself - I accept that. But I can also tell you that after I had addressed my addiction issues and was trying to do the next right thing, I was constantly challenged with no job offers and no options. But with some help that I could not get anywhere else, they helped me.

They reminded me of who I was but more importantly who I could be. They told me it wouldn't be easy and that it required change. I worked at the church, I worked at the food pantry, I tried to help others as well.

I am still dealing with the issues of my bad decisions, and am trying to do my best to repay what others have done for me in several different ways. I am rebuilding my life and I can only say that it was achieved not by me, but by Jesus and those that try to be like him.

This may not seem like a dramatic story, but my children have a father again, my parents have their son back, and I have hope -

Funny- my neighbor has a HUGE house he lets guys live in IF they milk his cows and help around the place. It's almost always empty.
The shelters are a nice idea, but if you asked people to do 10 hours work a week in exchange for food and meal, I bet it'd thin out pretty quickly.
Besides, there seems to be no shortage of single mothers in Janesville that love to take in jobless, drug- addicted men as boyfriends and future fathers of their kids. Should they get a tax-write off??

A single question always remains in these most difficult and complex controversies: Is it Christian (or simply morally justifiable) to help one group of people while KNOWINGLY harming others?

The reason these men are homeless is because they have no money. So what do they do with their money? Well Mikki what do you do with your money? Let’s see everything you’ve ever bought and let’s see how many were good decisions and how many were bad decisions. What none of my business? Oh I’m sorry. I am willing to bet that not every thing you have spent your money on was a good decision. You know what your right, [“The majority of these men who are homeless are so for a reason.”] Not only that but they are burden to the community, and an eye sore to look upon, let them go hungry or at least freeze. It’s their fault!! I can not understand how that makes you seem “cold-hearted and unchristian”. I can not understand why that statement doesn’t scream Christian love. Seems like someone forgot what Jesus did for you, even though you were not deserving. Even though you have broken God’s Law and are guilty before Him. My Christian friend PLEASE read your Bible every day and obey what it says.
Mikki
Dec 17, 2007 at 3:19 p.m.
[“Churches can get away with things because any outcry makes the speaker look cold-hearted and unChristian.”]

When it comes to feeding homeless people, or people in need yes I agree with your statement 100%.

Those evil churches and their feeding and sheltering of the homeless they are always getting away with stuff. Can’t someone please put an end to compassion before Mikki and the other heartless people of Janesville start having health problems? They might find a way to blame the Church.

First, proartist is the same malcontent that constantly complained about ECHO's annex at Trinity Church. She seemed to almost enjoy complaining. Thus, I tend to ignore what she says, except that if she is complaining, then someone must be doing some good in the community.
Secondly, there is not a shelter for single men in Janesville. There is a shelter for women, a shelter for families with children, but no shelter for single men.
Third, it is not always through their own actions that people are homeless. Think about the rental building near 5-points that burned a while back. There were single rooms for rent in that building. After the fire, all those residents needed housing. Was it their fault that the building caught on fire and they had nowhere to go?