Teachers protest, ask for public support

I read this forum and more and more think that my deciding to go back to school(I have had my own business since early 90's and I pay for my own eduction), get certification, and teach here in Janesville someday is absurd. I asked others in Whitewater(both profs and students) their opinions. Not one person whom I would want to teach MY children would teach in the Janesville district.
Secondly, I wonder why elected officals and administration salaries are not voted on by the public or capped. I dont think an elected official should make what they make. I dont think the board represented the public on Dr Evert's salary. The same goes for elected officials. They work in a governement which is "by the people, for the people."
I also think that teachers should strike, legally or illegally, if they feel that it is their last resort. Teachers shape our world. They shape the moral stucture, the finacial side, the future of our children's lives, and so much more. Maybe it is time for non public education accross the board, period. Those who want good QUALITY education for their children can pay for it, those who dont can teach their kids to ask "hey I axed you, do you wunt frys with dat?" The class structure of our society will change rather quickly and the laws of evolution and mother nature will solve more problems for some of the posters here(or their future heritage). Just my 2 cents

Where's Rodney King when you need him??

Can't we all just get along??

Go Packers!!

Newbie, Spunk, and heat:

Comparing GM-UAW to JSD/JEA is a poor analogy. A closer comparison can be drawn to gov't employees who are unionized (police, firemen, etc).

For example, once upon a time labor unions represented legitimate grievances of workers and offered a counterbalance to businesses that conspired to restrict competition at the expense of consumers.

That was then, this is now.

Ironically, unions became victims of their own success. After they won redress for their legitimate grievances, the dynamics of union politics pushed militant union leaders to pursue unreasonable demands, driving companies out of business, undermining entire industries and destroying their own jobs in the process. Today, only 7 percent of private-sector workers belong to unions (down from 20 percent in 1983).

By comparison, 36 percent of government workers are unionized. But their jobs are secure - you can't drive government out of business and taxpayers are more captive than consumers.

The fundamental flaw in that comparison is that the better the "deal" the higher the cost of the product; but no one is forced to buy that product.
The better the deal for teachers (not saying they aren't worth it) the higher the cost of the service; and everyone is forced to buy that service through their taxes.

While comparing GM workers to teachers, here's another way to look at it. Unfortunately for GM workers, they were put between a rock and a hard place: make concessions or face losing many more jobs because of overseas competition. Enter teachers. Some may say we will always need teachers and always have teachers so pay them just enough. Others may say we will always need teachers so they are the ones that now carry the torch that the auto workers, steel workers, etc. once carried that meant if someone got a good deal, maybe that would spread a little bit to everyone else.

A comparison has been made between Union Teachers and GM's Union workers. I would like to point out that GM has the option to replace its workers should it ever see fit to do so when its contract with them runs out and that if GM agrees to a labor contract that it cannot honor, it can declare bankruptcy, or sell itself or even shut down. The school district has none of these options, therefore the Teachers Union has an advantage that GM's Union does not. Because of this advantage the state legislature has decided that Teacher's Unions are not allowed to strike. Since strikes are not allowed, when the union and the district do finally agree to a new contract, the terms will be retroactive so that while teachers are still working under the terms of the expired contract, they will be paid for the raises they will receive from the first day after the old contract expired. The legislature also recognized that unlike GM's owners, the school district does not pay its employees from the earnings of the school district, it has none, but from taxes taken from property tax payers as well as income tax payers and sales tax payers, which include ever man, woman, and child in the state, whether they have a student enrolled or not. Therefore the Legislature saw fit to pass the QED law to control tax increases which have gotten out of hand in the past and would quickly do so again without this kind of control.

Am I missing something? If the district were to impose a QEO (3.8% increase of combined pay and bennies) it would be a better offer than the roughly 3.5% increase currently offered. Plus they would not be able to screw with the premium payments?

Moco- The world I live in is not as black and white as yours seems to be. Mine has many shades of grey. In order to come to an agreeable solution, you do not need to be for or against anyone you just need to have an open mind and be willing to compromise.

rocky....to me it seems as if he is just providing info. Other than the 1 time where he called someone out on the facts he has just been providing. After I hear more and more from him, I have to admit that I was entirely wrong about him. I'm sure I won't agree with everything but I've gained a new perspective for the job he does. Bill I apologize and appreciate what you do.

Mr Sodeman thank you for the clarification. I appreciate that and your honesty.

This isn't meant as an accusation - but a question....Is it appropriate for Mr. Sodemann, as a school board member, to be debating this (and personnel issues such as Dr. Everett's raise) on a public forum? Not that I don't appreciate his candor... I just don't want to see something like this jump up and bite back.

Man, GM strikes and they get a standing ovation, the teachers strike and are ridiculed. I am 100% in favor of the teachers sticking up for what they believe in. No one knows what it is like to teach until you witness it first-hand. I am not a teacher but have seen and know what goes on. Teachers, keep standing up for what you believe in!!!

Commissioner Sodemann: I appreciate very much that you are looking for answers to the topics being addressed. I have always felt that the board does its best to make decisions based on what is best for the community and our district. I must admit that I believe there have been times that the administration has sort of pulled the wool over your eyes, but that's our fault for not being there to tell the whole story, especially during open forums. It's the brave person who puts themself in a position of "tell all," and I look at Wendy Haag as an example. She brought up the point about the reserve funds last year when all the cuts were being made, and now we've lost her in our building (the administration reassigned her). It's a sad truth, but the administration does have its way of getting back at us when we demonstrate individually.
I love my job, Commissioner. I feel like I've had two lives already, working first in the hard-working blue collar force, and now (as a late college graduate) in my awesome self-gratifying profession of teaching. I "get" the points being made from both directions. Please keep seeking out the answers to the good questions you are now asking. That's exactly the result we (the teaching force) are looking for.
Please include within your list of questions for the administration the following: 1) How does the board come up with a value for our health insurance premium each year? 2) How much suplus has resulted from that fund in each of the last five years? 3) What have they done with that money? Then, please remember, that "excellent benefit package" Dr. Evert referred to at the last board meeting is in part scored on the basis of the cost of that benefit package, from which they are keeping our surplus.

Dear 1234: I am not able to judge if something was "intentionally left out". Knowing the character of Dr. Behn, and again, we disagree a lot, it is my belief that it is more of a case of realizing (too late) how much work had to be done before July 1st when the position was supposed to have started. Obviously, knowing this ahead of time would not have influenced my vote on 4K as I was strongly opposed to the idea. Would it have swayed the votes of anyone who voted yes? I doubt it, but I am not a mind reader.

My vote to "abstain" was a difficult one. As I stated in another blog that has vanished, I could not vote "yes" but I understood that the program did need a coordinator, but I did not like the total cost involved, but to try and change the pay scales now etc. would have been impossible. You have every right to criticize me of my vote as I still don't know, in my own mind, if I did the right thing.

Finally, the JSD offer to JEA had a total package value of 3.55% (at the time it was offered). This includes "step" movement but does not include "lane" movement. "Lane" movement usually adds about .5% but you have to consider that the cost to get to a new lane (adding 6 credits) is paid for by the teacher, so it would be unfair to count all of the .5% towards the offer. As caddycshack correctly pointed out, teachers who are at the top end of the pay scale tend to come out on the short end (percentage wise) because they only get credit for experience for the first 16-17 years of teaching. They would get less than the 3.55% package while younger teachers would get more. As compared to other districts, our salary schedule looks better for newer teachers than it does for those who are at the top. I think that we should see if it can be adjusted, but it will not be easy!

caddy - I will try to get to the health care questions you asked later, as I also have a business to run. You did ask about the second year however which was proposed at 1% per cell (on top of the 4.7% for the first year.) Averaged together, and considering all of the health care changes, step movements etc., made the total package worth 3.55% when it was proposed. Do to some other insurance changes, the number has now been modified to a 3.49% total package.

Bill Sodemann

ALL: First of all I'd like to appologize for some of my negativity yesterday. I may have used a few words incorrectly (for which I was called out) out of frustration. In the end everyone in here is either for the teachers or against the teachers. You are either for the current administration or against them. I obviosly am for the teachers and think the administration could be changed up a bit. It just seems to me that all you tax paying citizens like myself that are complaining about the teachers insurance issues are missing a major point. The money is already in the bucket why not use it to help keep things the way they currently are? What harm does using that money to keep cost down do to the tax payers? I can't come up with one good reason they shouldn't use it. They have this huge amount but they won't use it to help end this battle. In turn they hire another administrator to the tune of 112K a year. caddyshack243 made this very same point and it seems legit. It seems everyone is more hung up with the "well that's just how it is everywhere so why should they be different" and that simply is not true. I have 100% coverage at the cost of $30 month and $20 dollar co-pays. If one looks hard enough there are companies out there that offer better plans. Several people in this thread have said over and over that just because your job doesn't give great benefits doesn't mean we can't give them great benefits. It just seems childish to have the attitude of "well if I can't have it, I don't want anyone to have it". Doesn't it bother anyone that we keep paying taxes and yet there is this huge surplus??? I believe this is from the administration ball parking for the insurance rather than having a private company deal with it. That is our money sitting there and apperently accumulating each year, give it to the teachers and end this.

OMG..I haven't seen this much B@%$*ing since GM went on strike! BTW I support the teachers on this one.

rocksolid: Sorry, one more: Curriculum coordinators in JSD typically oversee multiple subject areas. Why the urgency to hire a curriculum coordinator solely for the P4J? Could this P4J curriculum not be directed by the current curriculum coordinators? Thanks.

rocksolid: From our other postings, three questions: 1. Since it has been reported that the referendum is now over budget, why didn't the school board at least put the $500,000 towards the referendum? You stated that by law, it had to be spent. 2. What is the school board offering the JEA in salary and benefit compensation the second year of this contract? 3. If the "health assessment" and "wellness program" are so essential to the settling of the insurance impasse in this contract, then why do you not know what the "wellness program" entails? It is now January 2008, your contract was presented to JEA in April or May of 2007, hasn't the board had roughly one year to outline in detail what is expected of the JEA in order to reduce premiums by one-half? You stated the "health assessment" would take "less than one hour" to complete. Is all of this insurance fuss really worth "less than one hour"?

Mr. Sodeman, one more clarification, if Dr Evert's new deal is "similar" to the JEA offer or the District offer to JEA

To continue I know you abstained, but by not voting no did you give legitimacy to the "accidental omission" because you said that yes you didn't vote for it, but it needs somebody to run it, why was it not mentioned on Dec 10. To me this is a perfect example of half truths that have been coming from the SDJ.

That may be true Commissioner Sodeman, but what is your true feeling, if you can mention it, about this latest action with the "4K director" to the public that seems a little shady. I believe that some "truth's" were intentionally left out

As a school board member, I have done battle with Dr. Evert and others on a number of issues such as; the referendum (including the info flyer), 4K, movie use, etc. I must tell you however that our discussions have always been professional, he always listens, and comments never resort to personal attacks. I consider him to be of the highest integrity and I think he is an outstanding superintendent.

He did not get a 14% raise! His net package, including all of the insurance adjustments, was 3.7% (similar to what the JEA offer is). I believe that the 14% figure came from a website that received data under a different reporting method. The union sent out an email months ago chastising him for the large increase. After the truth was uncovered, the union has never made a correction or an apology for the mistake as is evident by some of the comments that have been posted. This is unfortunate.

If anyone would like to discuss this or any other issue, you may call me on my private line at 531-1883 or email me at bill@phonesplus-jvl.com.
Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

Caddyshack is also correct about ARBITRATION in which case the arbitrator has to pick one side or the other after a hearing and filing of briefs. Before it even gets to that an impasse must be declared in mediation. But if the JEA is confident of their position, arbitration should also be a welcome option. Obviously what's going on now isn't working

Speaking from experience regarding mediation, having been involved in four or five personally as a member of a union bargaining committee, (but not in the education field) I whole heartedly endorse the process. When you sit down with a mediator everything is up for discussion. Each side is in a separate room and the mediator goes back and forth to try and "mediate" a "voluntary" settlement. I have to admit I was skeptical before my first one but I was pleasantly surprised that the process sometimes (not always) works. But it is certainly worth a try.
The "lengthy" part is petitioning the WERC and waiting for a mediator to be assigned. That has been done and Karen Mawhinney is a very competent mediator, again, from personal experience. I would urge both sides to put their animosity aside and at least set the date and give it a try. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Again this is only mediation NOT arbitration.

tjncj: In regard to mediation: I am not on the JEA bargaining committee, so I obviously cannot relay what is said in those sessions. For the past few contracts the JSD and JEA have tried to work things out together. I cannot remember what the buzz word for that was, “soft bargaining?” Maybe someone can help me out there. Much like “Let’s be friends and compromise in a friendly way.” In our union meetings I have heard negotiation meetings have been cancelled, proposals left unchanged, and compromise went out the window a long time ago. Obviously biased, but the JEA has conceded issues on their side, the JSD has not. Remember when Dave Parr was chastised for abruptly leaving a negotiation session? In essence Parr asked Dr. Evert for the JSD’s new proposal and Evert replied that they had none and wondered what the JEA was willing to concede. So Parr saw no reason to waste each other’s time and left. Of course I wasn’t there, but others who were there confirmed the story. I believe a mediator is in the works but it seems to be a lengthy process. The Gazette had an article on the mediator just a short time ago. IMHO, the JSD does not want to go to mediation where a “marriage counselor” tries to get us back together, and especially does not want arbitration where the arbitrator picks one side or the other. Why not? Because the JSD has offered a 1% salary adjustment in the second year of the contract. I believe the JSD would lose the arbitration case. IMHO of course. There have been no compromises from the JSD regarding their initial contract proposal. The JSD pretty much has taken a “take it or leave it” position.

Moco:

A lie is defined as a willful falsehood. Are you saying the administration "lied". Key term is willful. Again, another poor choice of word to describe the position of your advosary. Simply being mistaken is not a lie.

The union and district it seems are miles apart on the necessity for teachers to pay part of their annual insurance premiums. he union doesnt want to capitulate to this demand-I completely understand their position. I happen to disagree with the union position-but like everyone else, I have only one voice. If the result is that the teachers take home less-that is the result of this tough decision facing the union and district.

Children, children, it's time for recess.

Why don't all you unhappy people start ragging on jqpublic now??? He/She said the exact same thing that I did.

I already said corrupt not have been the right word but lying and deceiving isn't to far off.

Walk a day in a teachers shoes and you all might not be so bold as to say they have enough and need to pay more.

Why doesn't the JEA just get QEO'd? What does this mean for the teachers? Well they get 3.8% and the insurance stays the same. Sure that 3.8% is distributed into the benefits and insurance. However they will not get nailed for paying 10% which results in a pay decrease. I am amazed how people actually say they should just take their hit regarding insurance. Some things are worth fighting for! Just because many of you are paying a portion of your premium does not mean everyone should. Especially when the JSD has a surplus. Who in their right mind would actually agree to take a pay decrease and be happy about it? For everyone validating administrations tactics and salaries, my guess is you are in a position that also has the mind set to take money from the majority to pad the pockets of the minority. JEA stand up for your right to a fair contract! You deserve it!

Mocco:

You deserved to be slammed for using the word "corrupt." A difference of opinion is not corruption, it's a difference of opinion. The term corruption is a perjorative thrown at the administration because you do not have a cohesive argument to fortify your position. If the adminsitration is corrupt-prove it.

As for Evert and his comp package, he deserves what ever the board is willing to pay. Even if that means that the district cuts un needed teachers.

No one is asking what is the best choice for the district? Does Evert need to go, I dont know-I personally dont believe he makes a lot of money and on balance, the JSD seems to compare fairly well against other districts in WI. I know teachers dont earn a big salary-but their benefits (as are admin benes) are lavish compared to the private sector.

ON th other hand, was the 4 year old kindergarten handled poorly. Probably. Is this program require-doubtful. Should evert get cannd for this-that's for the board to determine-not bitter jealous union hacks who are pissed because Evert earns 2x or more per year. This is the issue-envy and jealousy.

If the union really was arguing from a position of strength, the general public would be behind the teachers-it seems to me the public considers the tactics by a minority of teachers to be childish.

Most businesses that offer health insurance require their employees to contribute to the cost of the premiums. This is not a radical concept. The union might be willing to "die on the hill" for this measure and a mediator might be required. Who knows. I think its a losing proposition for the union. I could be wrong.

If I read that right sluggo, does that mean you are not behind your bargaining committee? or you don't think their position is strong enough to convince the majority of the teachers they represent of what they are trying to do?
That a mediation session might actually put them in a position where they would actually have to seriously consider COMPROMISE?

moco- You stated "It is all more out of frustration that everyone in here want's to be equal with everyone else. That is not ever going to happen." The impression that is coming across on some of these posts is teachers wanting to have comparable salaries to their counter parts in the private sector, but not have the comparable benefits (ie paying premiums for health insurance, pay based on performance, etc.) A true comparison would take into account all factors of a profession, not just the desirable but also the undesirable. I think people have to also realize that whether we like it or not, the School District is a business and has to deal with the same issues that any business in todays world has to deal with.

Imeant employees.

I believe its because if they have a mediator they would actually have to do right by the teachers. It is much easier for them to speak behind closed doors and pretend they are speaking for ALL the employers of the district. By the way I promised my spouse that I would let you guys know when Im speaking. This is the me.

Spunky: At least we are on the same page. I just got slammed for using the word "corrupt".

Corruption: we get a x% package increase, but y% of that goes to the insurance cash cow. Such a cash cow that they stopped paying into it on a few "health care holidays" because there was such a surplus (this is without mentioning the $1.7 mil surplus that they admitted to). They use the healthcare against us for salary increases then pocket the extra change when their healthcare estimates were rediculously inflated. We need a normal, private insurance carrier so everyone knows the numbers and these silly estimates can't be used against us. What about the extra $56k they snuck in late for the 4k coordinator, what about the pay raises that, yes the board, gives to the top-heavy administration?

TCB...corrupt may have been the wrong choice of words. I don't know what you would call telling the board that the new 4K position would cost ~60K and then slide it in for a cool 112K. What is the word for that, maybe not corrupt but it is not right. You are right he did not give himself the raise the board did. At the same time teachers were getting cut he gets a huge raise. Do you think that is right?

ihavealife...I was just responding to your comment about me being negative. It is all more out of frustration that everyone in here want's to be equal with everyone else. That is not ever going to happen. The contract needs to be settled now and they need the communities support not bickering about how "they chose their profession" and "we all should pay premiums so that it is fair for all".

Moco:

Corruption charges? Really. Can you site any example of corruption per your statement "They really arent asking for much, only to be treated fairly by a corrupt adminisration. Where was all of this when Evert gave himself a 14% raise"

Also, I could be wrong, but I dont believe Evert gives himself a raise. I think he is accountable to a democratically elected Janesville School Board. I could be wrong. If it is Evert that chooses his salary, his increase and his benefits, he sure did aim very low (144K) considering he runs a business with 1500 FTEs.

But you state there is corruption, I thhink the public needs to know about this corruption....please show us proof

MOCO428-where in any of my posts have i not supported our teachers? i don't have a beef with teachers,i have a real issuse with the administration.my children are done with high school,as i said before i sent my children to school to learn ,behave themselves and most of all to have respect.i never expected a teacher to do more for my child that i wouldn't do myself.i did (my i say)more volunteering that was ever expected of me.i'm not patting myself on the back i did it because i wanted to.i volunteered for 6 years after my children were done with school.yes i want whats best for all children not just my own.the administration needs to step up to the plate when it comes to supporting teachers.my one child that's going to school right now to be a teacher has good memories from from her teachers and bad memories from dale carlson,if he would have stopped the problem in the beginning things would have been different.

moco: CEO's also get increases and that doesn't mean the worker bees always do!
And there is no misery here. I just want them to share in the responsibility of rising health care costs. If they paid more like other people, maybe someday everyone could afford health insurance, not just the privileged.

Sluggo, MOCO, Caddyshack, can anyone comment on the question of why the JEA won't meet with the Mediator?

You are convincing me with your case but this is a sticking point for many.

I think it is a valid question and routinely ignored.

rocket: They really arent asking for much, only to be treated fairly by a corrupt adminisration. Where was all of this when Evert gave himself a 14% raise? They will be losing money next year. Again just because you and a few others out there have not been as fortunate does not mean everyone needs to share in your misery.

ihavealife: If you are a parent then you of all people should want the best for your child. In life we get what we pay for. If you choose to keep fighting the teachers and the good ones end up leaving or worse stop caring, then see how you feel when your child doesn't get the education he/she deserves. In the end how much does a $100K home pay in property taxes in Janesville. I believe mine are about $2800 for a 1200sq/ft ranch on the East side. What does the school get 800 or so??? I really don't know. That seems like a very small price to pay for the advancement of our society.

LOCO MOCO,
Screw it, let's just give in and give them everything they want and end all of this discussion; or will they want more next contract??

ihavealife.....Yes. I have made a few remarks towards people that just don't seem to understand the situation. I was simply stating the just because a person is unhappy and getting screwed with their benefits does not mean everyone else needs to be unhappy and getting screwed. Two entirely different things.

rocket...Maybe you should listen to some of the other "unhappy" people here when they tell the teachers "if you don't like it leave, get another job". It sounds like you have't received a raise and pay high premiums for your insurance. Well you can also find another job if you don't like what you have. Don't you people see that everyone's job is a bit different. Each person gets different benefits, some are better than others. Just because there are crappy benefits being paid by some companies does not mean that all have to be that way. My company sure doesn't operate like that! The health care system does need reform but there are many other reasons your insurance is higher than just this.

MOCO428 you should take some of your own advice ,go back and read some of your posts !!!you are very negative and nasty ,as i said before we are just parents doing the best that we can !!

MOCO428:
Hellloooo; You miss the whole point. The people that do have co-pays and detuctables are paying for the free loaders that don't. We as tax payers are complainers because our taxes keep going up and some of us "unhappy" people haven't received a raise in two years. Our premiums still go up (because more don't help pay for their insurance), so we also take a pay cut. Also, thanks for letting us know how the world got the way it is; "these people shape our world and yet very few people are willing to pay for it." However, we ARE paying for it, it many more ways then taxes!!!

first of all....Mikki, Idont care about your education. Attack me if you want but..... if you are worried about people attacking you for commenting while you are working, then dont. I think that maybe you might be hiding something. iF YOU ARE A TEACHER YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF. You sit there and comment as if if you are better than all these people. When you know damn well that this communities teachers deserve more than what they are getting. Lets not forget that they went a couple of years without a raise and when it was brought to the district they convieniently didnt know what the teachers were talking about. Or where the money was. Correct me if im wrong. All of the neggative opinions are comming from you people who are brainwashed by the Gazzette. THANKS TO ALL OF THOSE WHO HAVE THERE OWN OPINION

I see both sides of the arguments and there is some merit to each. But I just have one question to the teachers. Why the reluctance to sit down with a MEDIATOR?

To ALL of the NEGATIVE PEOPLE:
Just because you have crappy insurance does not mean everyone has to!!!!!!!!! Do not begrudge them for fighting for what the believe in. If you all want to roll over and take it then go ahead!

They are in the public so everyone gets to hear about their complaints. Most of us in here work in the private sector so even when we do B@#$% no one hears us but that doesn't make what our employers is doing right!

WE DON'T ALL HAVE TO BE UNHAPPY!!!

Sluggo, my education and job is really none of your business. Why? Because then I'd hear all about how I was on-line 'during business hours', or something just as ignorant.

I am all for quality teachers, but healthcare costs are skyrocketing. I take what I can get at this point, and am happy to even have a job.

I like what I do, but I can find this sort of job anywhere, and perhaps in an area where the benefits are better.

There are politics in all businesses and organizations. Many people have to work outside of working hours and not get paid. That's called dedication. As I said, if you don't like the job, don't do it. You know what it takes.

Leaderofthepack:
You missed the whole point. They are more than happy with the increase for this year. It is next year that all them will actually be getting a decrease in pay because of the insurance. Their point is that there is a surplus in the contingency fund that they pay their premiums into, which by the way means you are paying into a surplus! All they want is to keep the current healthcare by using a bit of the surplus. I hope I have that all correct. As others have said in here before "just because you have crappy insurance does not mean that everyone has to". I work in the private sector and I pay $16.00 a month for 100% coverage and only $20 dollar co-pays on doctor visits. I don't have a deductable except for a hospital stay and even that is only $500. So to all of you out there that think it is the norm to pay excessive amounts for your insurance you are incorrect. It is just the unhappy people who wish to voice their displeasure in their own insurance. You all seem to have the attitude of "if I can't have it then niether should they". What a load of crap, how do you people live with yourselves. Also they don't have any other way to reach the public on this scale. If one teacher was to write a letter to the gazette only a handful of people would take the time to read it. But if the story had a bunch of negative press surrounding it then everyone reads it. I keep hearing all of this "quit complaining and accept it" and "you knew what you were getting into" crap and it sickens me. These people shape our world and yet very few people are willing to pay for it. Maybe we should make get rid of schools an force everyone to home school their children. See what happens to the economy then. You all would have been glad to pay them what they wanted then!

Attention teachers: Acting like school kids to get your way is no way to impress your bosses (the tax paying public). There aren't many people in Janesville that wouldn't love to switch salary and compensation with you. And don't kid yourself, everyone's job is difficult and we all have to put up with many problems. So the "Let's change jobs is a crock" The tax payers get the same thing each time a contract comes up. "We(teachers) would love to change positions with you!" Well I don't see a mass exodus from the teaching field. Or, the old party line of "We do many of our jobs during unpaid hours!" I'm sorry I thought you were on salary, not hourly employees. Just like every other person in the world that is salaried, we work when we have to. Quit acting like working outside of the 7:30 - 4:00 timespan borders on slave labor brought on by the school district. Please, give that a rest. The thing is if we want a raise we don't lay on the floor and throw a tantrum, we work harder.

Secondly, Try to actually pay for your insurance at a rate of $200.00 per month, and then have to co-pay when you go to the doctor, that is after you have reached your deductible that is another $1000+ per person and then we get to pay 80% of the bill as well. And that doesn't include going eye doctor. Yup, we in the private sector have to pay for those things. Also, how about you start paying your own insurance costs when you retire? Believe it or not, that's what it's like in the real world. Most everyone I speak with regarding your issues would love to see what you would do if you had to pay for some of these luxuries yourself. And that is exactly what they are, luxuries. Those same people agree that if you acted like professionals, we would like to pay you like professionals. What you do is a thankless job, and one that is done with great conviction, so do your selves a favor and come up with some new schemes when trying to convince your bosses that your deserve not just a raise, but the right to keep your perks that you already are enjoying.

against_the_grain- WOW !!i don't know who you are ! but i can only HOPE my children had you as a teacher !!! very well said.... parents listen to our teachers !!!

I come from a very hard working family. My dad retired from a factory position a few years ago earning less than I earn today. I, myself, am a late bloomer in terms of my college education. I've worked hard in the service industry during the early years of my children's lives while putting myself through college. Having dreamed of being a teacher since my early years, I'm now living my dream. I'm not underpaid, and I'm not overpaid. My hours are unbelievably wonderful, and I have the perk of having almost the identical schedule as my children. At this point in my life, I GET to go to work each day. I GET to continue my education and am rewarded on my pay scale for doing so. It is a lot of money to come up with, but that's okay. I expect it as part of my requirements, and I plan for it. I receive emotional gratification for the work I do. I'm making a difference in my students' lives. Do I agree with the principle behind the teachers' picketing? Yes. Why? Because the tax-paying public needs to have their attention drawn to the poor spending tactics of the administration in this district. I believe the teachers have a right to be upset about how they've had their resources taken away while watching the same debt-crying administration spend like crazy around them. The unreasonable quality of the current negotiations are simply outrageous. Please listen to what we're all saying. Unfortunately, this is a no win situation, because in the end (and I blame the administration for this) you all will be less willing to trust and support district spending and future requests for support.

Blackirish- While a 4-year contract is a good goal, state law limits the contract to 2 years.

To others: The old "They get June/July/August off so it is only a 9 month salary" argument is the first sign of an ignorant arguement. It is pretty obvious to anyone involved that while the contract only covers 8 hours per day for 190 days, the job entails literally hundreds of hours outside that contracted time...usually in excess of the number of hours per year that other salaried professionals work.

Do you consder the person working 4-10 hour days only an 80% employee? Should they receive only 80% of a full-time salary? Of course not. - but they have 52 days off per year that the 5 day per week worker does not. Teachers do essentially the same thing but take all their days in one chunk.

Most teachers work 10-12 hour days during the week and at least a part day on the weekend. They have to prepare lessons, grade papers, record grades, call parents, meet with students, and do any number of other things that can't be accomplished in "contracted" hours. If you doubt it, I'm sure there are plenty of teachers who would gladly trade with you for a week.

i have said this many times before, but as parents we need to support the educators of our children, as parents we need to support every thing that the teachers want/need!! if we dont, who is going to educate our FUTURE, i have 2 daughters in JSD and absolutely adore both of my daughters' teachers!! as a taxpayer I would rather see my tax dollars go to a teacher, than some of the other things they go for!! I work, my husband works..... parents want to talk so bad about teachers but the fact is without them who is going to teach them! I will say that i could not be a teacher, not with the way the system works!! keep doing what you are doing teachers, i will support you, even if that just helps a little bit!!!

Everyone in the company I work for has the exact same insurance benefit whether you graduated with a masters or dropped out in 6th grade.

Degrees usually matter in what company you work for, what position you are offered, and what benefits you are offered. I was just wondering if Mikki is comparing apples to oranges. A friend of mine has a similar insurance plan-no college degree though.

as with your job that you had BI the health care is also part of the "package". They are just nubmers the same as others who have been laid off recentley due to greed driven bast!@#$

sluggo- How many degrees a person has has nothing to do with the type of health insurance a company offers.

Mikki- how many college degrees do you have with an insurance plan like that? Most teachers have a master's degree plus credits.

Yes teachers health insurance is self-funded. Does self funded mean that they pay their premiums? I guess it could. Yes the % increase is for salary and benefits.

Maybe those of you complaining about your premiums should unionize.
Also, it is a cost of living raise - nobody is getting rich here - the money will go back into the economy - property taxes, gas, food, electricity... It's not that much money really.

Hold on. "teachers pay no premiums" I thought teachers DID pay their benefits as part of the salary package.
People keep throwing out numbers, but a 4.7% increase does not go into pockets, a big part of that goes into benefits.

CandleLover: Where does it say that the teachers health cost are going up. They are self funded. They have had a surplus 8 out of the last 10 years. A surplus means they have extra money! I would understand your argument if the teachers were causing the JSD to be in the red. However this is not the case. Also just because you pay 2500 dollars a year does not mean that the teachers should have to. If your company had a surplus of money at the end of the year, would they propose the next that you should pay more to create an even larger surplus? I highly doubt it!

I think the teachers (and other members of other unions) need to wake up about health insurance premiums. It is great that they have paid no premiums for so longer but it is time to get with this century. With escalating health costs in recent years, it doesn't seem right for the teachers to expect to receive health insurance for free as was done 40 years ago. I pay about $2,500 a year in an insurance premiums for my family plan and I have "good" health care coverage. I should also point out that my cost is about 20% of the total insurance premium. My employer contributes about $10,000 annually. I still have deductibles and some co-pays until I reach a certain amount but consider that to be the norm.

My comments are not a reflection of the value I place on the Janesville teachers who have educated my 2 children. I have the utmost respect for our teachers. Not only do they educate our children but also influence their development in many ways other than just academically. I know they put in countless hours and are often times unappreciated (by both students and parents). I think we not only have great teachers but also caring and competent support staff in our schools. I hope this is all resolved soon so our teachers can concentrate on educating our children.

moco- Just because someone does not think like you or agree with you doesn't mean that they fell through the cracks of the educational system. It is unfortunate that these types of forums do not open up minds of both teachers and non-teachers alike. It is amazing what you can learn, and maybe teachers might realize that the grass on the other side of the fence isn't as green as they thought it was.

Nina:
That sounds about right. I think that carries on throughout life everywhere we go. If I do well my boss gets credit but if I do poorly then it's my fault. Funny how that all works!

benthinking: actually, the old saying is something along the lines that if a child succeeds in school, the student gets the credit for the hard work and intelligence; if a student fails, the teacher (or parent) didn't work hard enough for the child.

Concerned:
You are right. I don't think it is that they want more, they just want to keep what they have w/out having to pay more. If there was not a surplus I doubt they would be doing this.
The administraion appears to be extremely distrustful. They cut jobs and programs and now are bringing in another administrator for the 4K program. Don't get me wrong the 4K program is really great and my wife and I have been waiting for it. I just don't think we needed to allocate a position that pays out that much. Maybe if they were up front about the 112K rather than the ~60K that was originally brought up it would be a different story.

Rocket21,
The SUV's belong to the teachers that married their college boyfriends who graduated with similar degrees and are now earning a corporate income.

I just can't buy into the higher pay brings quality teachers. If higher pay brings a different set of applicants then the higher pay brought people who are seeking higher pay, not necessarily better quality.

Within the current system there are pay increases based on continuing education and length of service. That already addresses somewhat the pay for quality arguement.

This is a complicated issue, however, I notice that if a student, or group of students does well than it is pat the teacher on the back. If the student or group does poorly, it is the parents fault, the buildings fault, the lack of tax base, drugs, etc. Is this not a little one-sided?

Mikki, Let's just say, hypothetically:
Your company is self-insured, and each year in the past five years they've had millions in surplus money from your insurance fund.
Last year they told you that they were having trouble staying out of the red, and they cut several positions around you and asked you to do the same work you were doing before, picking up the slack of those now missing.
While they've cut positions around you, they keep finding money for those pet projects they prefer to invest in, so now they've managed to open a new factory in Milton. (It's good for the future of your company, they tell you.)
Now your superiors come to you and tell you they are going to have to start charging you more for your insurance. (They know it's a good ticket, because health care is in crisis in this country and it will be a difficult thing for you to argue.)
You know that your insurance fund has been in great abundance, and you're disgrunted and distrusting. It's not at all fair. This is your career though. To start over now isn't a real option. You have a family, and have vested your education and your life into your area of expertise with this company.
Should you just shut up and agree, and be thankful you have a job that you love? Even if that's what happens in the end, wouldn't you want people to know how unfairly you are being treated (especially if those people are the source of your income and are trusting your superiors to be allocating your money well)?

Mikki, that's the sort of comment that makes me just want to jump on the teachers' bandwagon to defend them regardless of the argument. I do, after all, want quality teachers attracted to the district that teaches my children. I think we have to listen to what their current argument is. Outside of some posts defending the general "teachers are underpaid" argument, I think what they are really trying to say is that they are currently being treated quite unfairly with the offer on the table. I have to agree, from the supporting information I'm gathering.

Rocket21, I absolutely agree. I think most teachers, if they were honest, would agree that they have a highly desirable work schedule. I understand about all the extra hours, and I believe it too, but come on... really... it's not so bad. Nonetheless, I've retained the belief that they are to be valued. It only makes sense to me that having a better salary schedule than other districts will provide us with the better teachers in the area. Common sense. The thing I'm sort of stuck on is my increasing distrust of the administration. I really think the teachers must be fighting some true unfairness. My gut tells me they wouldn't be acting out the way they are if it were just a matter