Mr. Angus-
I am thoroughly disgusted by the sewer that these comment boards have become. When the new website was originally launched, the comments were interesting and sparked conversation. Since then, however, this has become a forum to bash people covered in the news, as well as fellow commentors. I feel that this website has degraded not only the value of the news that the Gazette SHOULD be being paid for- not giving away for free- but also has degraded the Gazette's image in the community by allowing these horrible comments. I strongly feel that the Gazette reconsider the number of comment board that are allowed as well as the amount of free content allowed on the website. The Gazette will be no more if you keep giving away your product, which is the news. I don't know of any other business that can give away their product and stay profitable, do you????
At a social event last weekend, I was shocked by the number of people who now REFUSE to go onto the Gazette website because they find the comment boards so offensive and upsetting. I realize that you are quite fond of the website but perhaps you should reconsider that position.

I would just like to add that Scott and his staff did a wonderfull job acknowledging this issue in the Janesville area. She has made bad choices in her life but has only been surrounding herself with good now. Just to let your readers know, she lives in a duplex that shares a recycle bin and she doesn't smoke or drink beer. She does enjoy a cocktail occasionally when affordable. Her kids are well fed and she also has a freezer that is seperate from her refridgerator. She does anjoy a soda evry now and again but would rather drink milk (and by the way, it is cheaper to but a 12 pack of soda than a gallon of milk!). All of her kids are by the same man which came out of an abusive relationship of 10 years. So tell me now...are her priorities REALLY that screwed up? And THANKS to all those who support the charity groups that do help the poor. You never know if you may need them one day!

Editor Scott:

When I saw the pictures on the story with the beer cans in the background and some of the wording in the story I winced. I knew that there would be attacks on this woman because of those two things.

I will say it again as I have repeatedly said on here: People hide behind their "blog names" and say things they would never say in person. If everyone would just keep thinking about how these are REAL people behind these stories, they wouldn't be so apt to attack.

I am glad that you brought this to our attention, as most people don't realize that this is an issue (poverty) in this town.

I would like to give you another issue that I have written to your staff about and have not read anything about it in your paper:

What about the children who have been removed from their homes (through CHIPS child in need of protecive services) and are sitting over at the Juvy detention center, due to NO fault of their own? There are not enough Foster families in our county so this is where some of the kids end up at.........check it out, Scott...it is true!

*We have to remember we were not all raised with the same values and realities. When all you know is poverty, that is all you know.*

Again, I will ask: did this woman not get the same basic education that everyone else in the region received, basically for free? This line of reasoning treats people the same as animals--that if their basic programming is broken at a very early age, they can never be repaired. Nonsense. Did "knowing nothing but poverty" force her to quit her job simply because, paraphrasing her own words, "she didn't like what was going down?" And if all she knew was poverty, you'd think that lesson would be easily applicable after 1 or 2 kids.

I really think the majority of the people posting comments have missed the point of this series. My co-workers and I have been completely astonished by the response to these articles. We work with many people in the same situation as the family profiled. We have to remember we were not all raised with the same values and realities. When all you know is poverty, that is all you know. Maybe a little bit of patience, compassion, and understanding would be more beneficial than criticism. We see on a daily basis the many obstacles people in poverty face. I have to commend a lot of people in poverty for staying strong. In our line of work we have learned not to judge because we have not lived the life. Not judging, that's the key.

optimism - Maybe they interviewed other people and none of them had the courage to expose themselves to the insults that are being thrown at her on a regular basis. You do not have to condone her choices, but you are also not the judge of who is more deserving.

GMRETIRED....I am willing to bet it is DADS.

This is just the editor trying to justify his choice in the family that was covered. There were and ARE many other families within the community that are more deserving of the recognition this woman received. And I "heard" the sympathetic tone the articles(s) was written in, and I feel no bit of sympathy for her. Her kids, YES, her NO WAY. It is great she saught help after "hitting bottom", but she shouldn't get special treatment or recognition for that.

no,
Materials in the south weren't produced cheaply. Slaves were expensive which is why only 10% of the south owned them. It costs money to feed the slaves, it cost money for chains, it costs time and labor to track down slaves that ran away, it cost time and labor to supervise slaves. The south actually had low productivity. The north didn't have all the problems that the south did which is why it cost less to produce goods there.

Where is the dad? I would like to know that also. There are so many many single moms with no help at all from the dad's. Where are they? Are they even near by or do they even know their child exists? I know a lady with 4 and 2 of the 4 think their father is the same as the other 2 when in fact the mom does not want them to know their real dad is in prison. There is a sad situation all around. Yes, lets do some stories on where the fathers are and if they are being responsible parents..

*The economy in the north where there wasn't slavery was a lot better than the economy in the south.*

The North & South didn't exist in separate vacuums. The North benefitted from cheap materials produced by the South who could sell materials cheap since their overhead was, um, very low indeed. The South's economy went into a tailspin during the War because the North obviously wasn't buying anything and blockaded every other merchant fleet that would have.

Are we going to be reading a story on the father of Kathleen's children at all?

janesvillean,
Sounds like you need to study history. The economy in the north where there wasn't slavery was a lot better than the economy in the south.

DrTalk, you seem frighteningly unaware of the history of your own country. We had slave labor. We had to fight a war to eliminate it. I suppose a war is an "incentive", though.

Sin is stupid most of the time No and my Bible is no cliche.

*Mr or Ms no,
my comment about "us" only being as strong as our society makes us means the following: if you are living in an environment where people are constantly criticizing and cutting you down, you will do the same. But when you live in a society where people are compassionate and understanding, you will be the same.*

The compassionate and permissive society's lack of moral code produced the very situation we are all discussing. Hurray!

*s board has not ever made poor choices? They are a luxury only afforded to the wealthy? My tax dollars have to pay for it when an affluent young person climbs a mountain and has to be rescued yet I don't complain about it.*

Well, you should complain...especially if the same dumb kid climbs the same mountain and gets stuck 4 times with his drug-addict abusive climbing mates.

* We as a country make mistakes all the time that we all have to pay for.*

We're not talking about the country. The article is only about one woman bemoaning a situation almost entirely of her own making. SHE's the one who had all the kids with the deadbeat loser. SHE's the one who QUIT HER JOB FOR VERY LITTLE REASON. Not the country, not society, not the city--SHE did it. Why should the rest of society have to continually bail out people like this?

* So what. Who among you is without sin?*

Are you saying stupidity is sin?

* You go ahead and cast that first stone!*

It's nice that you have a grasp of both the bible and cliche.

Oh please...let me interject some humor here! I can just see my middle class tax money going out the window now. You are going to convene however many people, for 2-10 days.. You are going to call in how many experts for those days. Then you will report to the public and disband. Perhaps you will be convening in say, Hawaii??

Mr or Ms no,
my comment about "us" only being as strong as our society makes us means the following: if you are living in an environment where people are constantly criticizing and cutting you down, you will do the same. But when you live in a society where people are compassionate and understanding, you will be the same. NO..society did not get me pregnant. I was 26 yrs old when I had my first child. And yes, I did have a free public education until I was 18 and I even graduated from Blackhawk Tech in 2005. All this does not mean that I do not live paycheck to paycheck like many many others. I just happen to have more compassion for others than alot of people who posted negative comments have.

Community poverty potential solution- it's rather simple, if somewhat long description...

Citizen Deliberative Councils (CDCs) are temporary, face-to-face councils of a dozen or more citizens whose diversity reflects the diversity of their community, state or country. Usually council members are selected at random, often with additional criteria to ensure gender, racial, socioeconomic and other diversity.

These diverse ordinary citizens convene for two to ten days (and occasionally longer) to consider some public concern -- to learn about it (often by hearing and cross-examining diverse experts), to reflect on it together (usually with the help of a professional facilitator or moderator), and to craft a collective statement which they then announce to the public and/or relevant officials and agencies, often through a press conference.

After that they disband. In current democratic visions featuring CDCs, they have no permanent or official power except the power of legitimacy and widely-publicized common sense solutions to compelling public problems.

These are working around the U.S. and around the world.

http://www.co-intelligence.org/CDCUsesAn...

janesvillmom,
"Those darn regulations...no slave labor, no lead paint...how can a business survive here?"
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You just described communist China where there is slave labor and lead paint because of heavy government regulation. In free market societies like the U.S., businesses have incentives to take care of there employees without the need of government regulations.

sherim,
I agree, well stated! The only addition I want to make is: find a way to be a role model for her to help her and her children break the cycle that she has learned!

Yes and in a perfect world no one would concieve a child they could not afford. But then, I would not be here. I was not a "planned" pregnancy but I feel that God has a plan for me and I am supposed to be here to carry out that plan. And no one said you have to have money to be a good parent. Many terrific parents are poor and no one here has the right to say the woman in the article is not a terrific parent who maybe made some poor choices. Okay, every parent on the board who never made a poor choice raise your hands! I am glad that you have the self discipline to live on a smaller amount of money than the woman in the article. That is good and I am sure that you are setting a good example for your kids. Many people who manage money poorly as adults were set a poor example in youth as to how to budget and survive. What I am saying is that instead of being angry and judgmental and bitter at the lady in the article maybe we should focus on how grateful we are that we are not in the same boat.

I thought this was written by Scott to denounce the poor acts of judging and stating them online of this lady that opened herself up. I wonder how many of us would actually be so confident to open ourselves up as she has.

We all make good and bad choices, but she was confident enough to allow others to see her good AND bad sides. By the way, we all have good and bad sides.

luvujvl, SSI is unrestricted. The types of expenses you're talking about might fall under Medicare rules, though.
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Pwrtrip, if you are serious about doing something to make sure people don't get into debt or can figure their way out of debt, and especially if you have expertise, please contact ECHO about some of the classes they teach. Consumer debt is something that can catch up with someone at any income level, of course.

sherim44- You know, as an adult, there is such a thing as NOT CONCEIVING a child that you can't afford. And, FYI: I am NOT on some "comfortable pedestal". I also have 4 children, and, raise them on $1600 a month- WITH NO PUBLIC ASSISTANCE! We have a mortgage of $812. My children are wonderful, confident, out-going that do fabulously in school. IT is ridiculous to me that you would assume that because we critique her choices, that we all live "luxury" lives. I have been there, done that. Doing that right now. When I had these children, my husband was make a VERY high income. However, life happens, we seperated, and, now I am raising them on $1600 a month. HUGE life change, but, you know what? MY KIDS would not be without food and I drink. MY kids wouldn't be late for school, or, sitting around watching TV. I wouldn't allow it, and, I make nearly 1000 a month less than she does. Being "temporarily impoverished" means more creativity from parents. We go on treasure hunts for plants, read books, explore parks, hike, picnic,go to the library, etc. All free- and, all of these things help children to grow into positive young adults..... MONEY HAS NOTHING to do with being a good parent!

I am glad that this column was written as I was appalled at the lack of compassion I read about. And those of you sitting in judgement on the poor had better enjoy that comfy pedestal you live on. Because situations can change in the twinkling of an eye and you will be shown the mercy you show others. All sorts of things can change so fast. And when you are broke raising four kids sometimes you may make a bad choice. You mean to tell me there are no mistakes in your past or poor choices? What a luxury to feel so superior instead of thinking "There but for the grace of God go I".
No poor person should eat out or buy beer or drink soda or have cable or have kids, but I give her credit for having her kids instead of murdering them (an unpopular decision I am sure) when you have literally no disposable income for any sort of entertainment you may just be flawed enough to want cable. How do you know that the beer was even her beer? It could have been a boyfriends. It may have been the day before grocery day and that was why there was so little food. At worst she made some poor choices. Who on this board has not ever made poor choices? They are a luxury only afforded to the wealthy? My tax dollars have to pay for it when an affluent young person climbs a mountain and has to be rescued yet I don't complain about it. We as a country make mistakes all the time that we all have to pay for. So what. Who among you is without sin? You go ahead and cast that first stone!

I think that what spurred some of the negative comments or "attacks" is the SSI income of $680 a month being received for the child with ADHD and behavioral problems. I assume (though I know that is dangerous) that the Federal government intends for that $680 to be used for that child's medication, therapy, counseling, and special needs brought on by his condition. However, in the budget numbers that were in that article, there is no outgoing expense listed for any of those items. If he is receiving medication, therapy, or additional care, is that being provided free of charge? If so, then what is the purpose of the $680 payment that the rest of us as a whole are providing? And this certainly cannot be the only circumstance in which this is happening - how widespread is this practice? What are the total dollars involved in situations like this? When hard working people feel like they're getting "fleeced", they get angry and upset - with good reason.

Dr. Talk,
Those darn regulations...no slave labor, no lead paint...how can a business survive here?

Northman~ great wisdom in that last post! Well done.

janesvillemom,
It's not supply-side economics that's causing the problem. Supply side economics provides incentives for people to produce and to use resources efficiently. So why do companies move jobs overseas? Because government regulations prevents them from producing and using resources efficiently here in the U.S. Ending government regulations like the ban on drilling offshore will bring back jobs to the U.S.

I think there are way too many people passing judgment and making assumptions.

First of all, Wisconsin no longer has welfare. It's now Wisconsin Works or W2. After welfare reform the state doesn't just hand out monthly checks. I get $10 a month in food stamps and healthcare, that's it. I get $400/mo tops in child support and for the time being I get $310/mo in unemployment. My rent and utilities are $850. Then add in school supplies, clothes, and fees. I budget and I don't spend on unnecssary things, but the money flies out the window very quickly. I'm not complaining about not getting enough....but because I'm educated and there's nothing more than can be done for me I will not get anything other than foodstamps and healthcare. I have two degrees from BTC. Both worthless.

It is too easy for people over analyze what is a simple story. Granted, people end up in poverty for numerous reasons some of their own making some not. However, life is a balance of enjoying each day and trying to prepare for the future. Sometimes that balance is hard to achieve. Consequently, it doesn’t take much for someone who is seemly doing well to end up in a less than fortunate situation overnight. Moreover, not all of us have been fortunate enough to have parents or mentors that taught life lessons before making mistakes on our own. Every individual situation is different. It is too easy for those of us who are comfortable to forget how easy it would be to lose everything. Granted, we have our cars, CD’s, DVD’s and other consumer goods. However, if any one of us lost our jobs or got a life threatening disease that put us out of work it wouldn’t be hard for us to fall into the poverty level. The thought behind this series of articles is to shed light on a growing problem in Janesville, not to place blame or over analyze one particular situation. Regardless of the reasons, poverty is something Janesville and its community needs to address and the issue will only become more important in the coming years.

“All I see is comments not helping any situation . . .”
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Actually pwrtrip, this is what you call a consciousness-raising exercise. You can’t solve a problem if you don’t know it exists. The Gazette staff, perceiving a problem in our community, has chosen this series to highlight it for our consideration.
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At this point, if you think you have a solution, you can post it here and probably generate lots of feedback. Or, if you’re so moved, treat this as a personal clarion call and get involved. From reading postings on this and other related articles, there are clearly several people who are now contributing to ECHO, or volunteering their time and services to help out.
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You can choose to help, or not. The ball’s in your court now. But the series has begun making an impact.

pwtrip
I have been active in doing something about it. I was one of the people on the sideline doing all the talking and taking no action. Harsh reality has a tendancy to draw people into battle. We need more people with courage to do the right things in our communities. We just won't find out how we can help sitting in front of the TV or believing everything we read on the internet. I was part of the problem! Now, I've decided to be a part of the solution. We all can do that much, right?

I totally agree with you *no.* It does tick me off to see these welfare people cry foul all the time when they can't get enough money. This woman makes alot more then me in a month but I choose to work full-time to support myself and my family and yes I am single too.

*As a single mother who also struggles with making ends meet, I was happy to read the article about Ms. Patrick. If this were a perfect world, articles about poverty and homelessness would never have to be written. But, we are not living or demonstrating perfection. A person is only as strong as their society and neighbors allow them to be. *

I'm confused--your neighbors or society forced you to become a single mother? You weren't educated in public schools, free of charge until you were 18?

*I, like a lot of people, got into some trouble with credit card debt and my credit score is pretty bad. Why do I tell you this? Because I had no idea that when applying for a job, employers can pull your score and decide to not hire you because of it.*

Many employers will look at your credit score if the job for which you are applying involves spending their money.

*It simply feels like the gazette did a poor job in who they chose to interview. *

Kind of like that recent NPR story about those poor women who never worked a day in their lives and had recently had to cut a lot out of their grocery budget (including "ice cream") and it turns out both of the women were very, very morbidly obese.

OR, like the story in this very paper about the couple whose house was just flooded out twice in recent memory, and yet THEY ARE STILL GOING TO REBUILD IT.

* I understand it is the Gazette's website and they can do what they want, but they are in the free speech business*

No, the Gazette and every other newspaper are in business, period. They have their agendas just like any other business. Once you start looking for it, it's easy to find. Start with any story where a gun just "goes off" and kills someone, usually while they're playing with it. Such animation of inanimate objects only further serve a gun-control agenda.

raystone:
"Finally, tax cuts allow individuals to invest more in U.S. companies, thus spurring the economy. Tax increases do not accomplish that."
*
We have had tax cuts for the rich for the past 5+years and the only place they have been investing that money is OVERSEAS! Supply-side economics has been tried and it has failed.
*
Tax increases CAN be used to rebuild infrastructure in the US creating JOBS HERE and improving life for everyone.

* took down the comments on our main story in the poverty series Sunday because too many people seemed intent on tearing down the woman whom we profiled.*

Wow, you mean hard-working people [who may or may not be staring at their plant closing] might be a bit upset about having massive amounts of their income confiscated to pay for the repeated mistakes of others might be a tad bitter? Didn't see that coming.

michelle, something you and I can agree on is a need for more and better sex education in this country. It's a shame that the prudes think that it "puts ideas in their heads" when every study shows that the more young people know about sex, the longer they delay experimenting with it, and the fewer pregnancies. It's very sad when young women become pregnant before they have even started life, and young men are locked into paying child support before they are out of school. If we can prevent these situations in the first place, we will prevent a lot of the circumstances that trap people in poverty.
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I think your CD story shows again your willingness to wildly speculate about people. How do you know those weren't gifts or purchased at rummage sales or bought when the person was working? And if someone has a problem managing money, how do you test for that, and would you really deny someone benefits because of your judgement? This is what I deem arrogant and presumptuous, not just of you, but of entire groups of people in our society today. It's essentially a "You lost the game of life, get over it" attitude. We should instead redouble our efforts to make sure that people are given opportunities to get themselves out of poverty.

janesvillemom - redistribution of wealth does not equal helping the poor. Redistribution of wealth through taxes and bigger government does create entitlement mentality, mind numbing bureacracy, and loss of personal liberty. By creating government which makes more of its' citizens rely on bigger government, we allow the other problems you described to occur. By the way, I personally give a percentage of my income to ECHO, so you don't think all small government libertarians are heartless :)

Finally, tax cuts allow individuals to invest more in U.S. companies, thus spurring the economy. Tax increases do not accomplish that.

483, while I don't for a minute doubt your experiences, I just don't accept that the majority of those in poverty are represented by them. Some, yes; most, almost certainly not. I have two students, for example, that each have ONE kid, and were on b.c. Except that the doctor forgot to tell them that the pill doesn't work all the time if you take antibiotics. They are now single moms in Illinois. Anyway, what we are all talking about is the symptoms of poor politcal choices, not the causes.

"A friend's employee who he brought up in the ranks in his company had someone break into her apartment and take over 1000 CDs and videos." I'm confused by this statement. Could you please elaborate? Did someone's employee hire someone to break into an apartment and steal things? Is that supposed to establish some sort of moral high ground?

michelle
It's about having "empathy" as opposed to "sympathy".

I understand that you can get CDs and videos cheap. Heck, I used to buy books and CDs and movies at garage sales and resell them on eBay to make extra cash. But she complained that thosands of dollars went down the drain. And she always had her nails professionaly done.

I understand the sentiment of not "cutting other people down." However, I think many people are sorely lacking a sense of shame because we are no longer allowed to point out the irresponsible behaviors without looking like we are unkind.

Poverty can happen to ANYONE. Those who are tearing down those in poverty and don't know the story behind the less fortunate should may be walk a mile in their shoes before judging.

Exactly.
We are living in some of the most uncertain times that this country has ever seen. Now more than ever, we need to pull together as opposed to putting others down. People have enough stress in their lives and need more encouragement than discouragement. The future of our generations and the future of our society is in our hands....we the people. We all need to make the commitment to step up and become better ourselves and start becoming the walking and talking examples that others can follow and be proud of.

"A friend's employee who he brought up in the ranks in his company had someone break into her apartment and take over 1000 CDs and videos. This is someone who was living on rental assistance and food stamps, and her kids got toys from Toys for Tots. She can't pay for toys, yet she can buy thousands of dollars worth of CDs and movies?"
*
Not defending the person but just tossing this out there. I have several hundred movies, most of which were purchased at rummage sales, library sales, Goodwill, and/or were gifts. Quite often, those movies cost me as little as 3/$1.00. Heck, I got a lot of them for free from people who didn't want them anymore. Many if not most of my cds were purchased through music clubs (7 for the price of 1, that sort of thing). I also have several bookcases full of books. Most of those were also purchased used from one place or another. Just because a person has some "stuff" doesn't mean they aren't broke. They just might have found reasonably cheap alternatives to acquiring said stuff.

Janesvillean, no of course these programs are not free for the asking. But I see people all the time who try to get by with doing as little as possible when opportunity is put right in front of them. It's because there's an attitude of "why would I want to work harder and make more money when I'll have to pay for all of my rent with that money?" A friend's employee who he brought up in the ranks in his company had someone break into her apartment and take over 1000 CDs and videos. This is someone who was living on rental assistance and food stamps, and her kids got toys from Toys for Tots. She can't pay for toys, yet she can buy thousands of dollars worth of CDs and movies? By the way, this employee eventually had to be fired, and we later found all sorts of pornographic pictures on her computer that she was emailing to men in prison. Janesvillean, I'm not sure what your real experiences of people in poverty are, but I've had plenty and am full of stories like this and more. And yes, I know there are those who are stuck in situations, going through a rough time. I had a cousin who got pregnant in high school. But she realized that by starting at the bottom in healthcare, she could work herself up, get her schooling paid for, and now she makes over $30.00/hr, owns a house, is married, and has a couple other children, and is not on any kind of assistance.

And someone asked me about proposing some sort of solution. I think the tragedy of all of this is the children. Unfortunately, there are no easy answers because of them. However, I think we as a country need to get over our squeamishness over sex education and allow for much easier access. Not that I think it is difficult for those of us who are responsible and capable of making appointments, etc. I don't know--if you are on gov't handouts, require mandatory birth control. I know this may infringe on one's liberties, but the choice is take the handout, go on birth control, or go without, and not accept gov't assistance. This isn't exactly something I'd ever think would happen in our country, but it would be at least somewhat effective.

Sad commentary on society. And our country STILL give tax breaks to big corporations who take their jobs overseas. And we STILL rationalize that spending millions on new sports stadiums is a good economic decision. (maybe for some). And we still elect politicians who vote in such nonsense as NOT allowing Medicare to use its power in numbers to negotiate substantially lower prices for prescription drugs. These are just a few.***We have become so much of a "I got mine" society.

I think the beer and soda sentence was relavent to the story and should have been a part of it. It shows that sometimes peoples situations are caused by making poor choices. Buying that, instead of real food, is a poor choice. I think that these types of situations are where money management classes and nutrition classes should be required for the sake of the children. I do think that there are times when life throws a curve at a family and thru no fault of their own they need assistance for a few months-especially in this economy. That is what it was originally intended for. I have great respect for those that have gone thru those life situations and have come out bettering themselves. But when people repeatedly make bad choices,and admit they make bad choices,at the expense of their children, I have no respect.

lakennedy, Yes, through Charter.
There is a $19.25 + tax disconnect fee. All my kids watched were the OnDemand Kids Unlimited shows anyway so I am thrilled to have found this out.

raystone, I'd say our huge trade deficit, our growing national debt, our job losses to overseas factories, our starting a war that the world was against, and our cowboy attitude towards other nations is what has knocked the US from it's #1 place in the world... not helping the poor.
*
Historically, the times when our country has been the strongest, has been when taxes on the rich have been the highest.

I agree wholeheartedly with JimPL and Northman. I think it was an awful journalistic choice to talk about their being beer in the fridge. And, as far as it being a first amendment right, I am well aware that it is a private board and they can censor what they would like. I am merely pointing out the seeming hypocrisy of a news medium to censor comments that it doesn't "like". The personal one where they actually knew the woman is different from a legal point of view. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of swearing by the first amendment, and, then censoring opinions that aren't what they wanted them to be.

Janesvillemom: through Charter?

Scott,
Can we have an article and reader forum about how to cut back on you budget? I think there are a lot of people in this town who are finding themselves in a position of having to cut back and some useful tips from an article and from readers would come in handy!
*
For instance, I wanted to cut back on my cable bill, but didn't want to lose the kids programming. I found out that for about $20/month (basic + digital box rental) I can get the basic channels and the free OnDemand programs. This allows my kids to watch their favorite shows OnDemand and I only have to pay for the most basic service. They could even watch SpongeBob, if they wanted! I miss a few of the cable channels, but for over $40/month in savings, I'll get over it!

michelle483 - great post. It's exactly the involuntary redistribution of wealth described there that is causing the U.S. to lose its' #1 world status. When someone sees more and more of their hard earned income go to taxes to pay for ever growing goverment entitlement programs, that individual loses incentive to try to get ahead. And that work ethic is what made America #1 to begin with.
Some asked what the solution is....ongoing goverment assistance reinforcing poor choices is not the answer. There are safety nets, both private (churches with volutary contributions, etc) and public (government with involuntary contributions) to assist families after a hard time.

All comments had been removed before I came online this morning. But, I'd guess many of them had to do with the part of the story where it mentions there is almost no food in the fridge but there were cases of beer and soda. I too found this both odd and upsetting. Odd because the writer of the article should have known this would cast the subject of the story in a disparaging light. Upsetting because I've been there - extremely poor and struggling - yet we made sacrifices to make it better. While I did indulge in a soda from time to time, beer was out of the question. In any event, I'm still trying to figure out why the writer included that statement in the article in the first place, and why the editor of the story chose to leave it in. It would seem to me to be common sense that if they were trying to portray a sympathetic subject, they would have cut that statement from the article.

Am I my brother's keeper?

I'm surprised that the gazette did not see this coming. After reading the article with all the personal information about the subject, her children, and their situation revealed...I sure as heck knew what was going to happen. Hats off to this woman for having the courage to step in front of this firing squad!

I think some of what was written about Kathy was cruel but some of it was very honest. I agree with Michelle that it is not a PC thing to voice an opinion on. As a school employee I see kids in poverty everyday and its a hard thing to see. They are the true sufferers in all this. I see kids that their only meal of the day is hot lunch. In 25 years, I have also seen generations of families that are still in the same circle of poverty. I talked to a student last year that was pregnant from a one night stand at a party. She knew she could get assistance to pay for medical care for her and the baby. She knew that she would get special school hours. She knew that her schooling at Blackhawk would be subsidized as she was an unwed teen mother. She knows the father isn't going to be in the picture. She is at least 2nd gen. poverty bringing a child into a 3rd gen. poverty situation. As someone who's household works hard for what we have, I am tired of my taxes bailing out the rich people who have made bad mortgage investments and I am tired of handing money over to pay for someone who knows how to work the systems. How many programs at Blackhawk or U-Rock are full because the state is telling people if they want aid they have to go to school? I have taken classes where people show up get their papers signed and then only show up for half the class. If they are bettering themselves I will give them my full support but prove it. Don't throw cash at these single family situations. Donate to Echo, drop off mittens/hats at school. Put together little bags of soap/toothbrushes/etc and drop them off at school. We all know what kids will be delighted to get them! I have also been poor at one time-I remember what it was like to not eat on Fridays.

I think the “attacks” you see are the culmination of frustration many people have with our permissive society and the welfare system. If you profile someone who is working two jobs to support their family, and show beer in the icebox and cable on the TV, then I doubt anyone would criticize. But when you show someone on the dole, who is using our taxpayer dollars for luxuries while bypassing necessities, then the taxpayers are going to be indignant.
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In a similar vein, if you should decide to profile someone who has made some bad choices, and is working hard to get back on their feet and become self-supporting, the audience will be sympathetic. But if you find someone who thinks marriage is an anachronism, and is quite happy to father or mother babies that the rest of us have support, you can expect more indignant postings.

I just want to state that not all children with ADHD get SSI. They have to have another diability to get it. Most offten it is emotional issues. ADHD knows no social boundaries it is in all social classes.

I am concerned that the Gazette has to censor the forum it opened to the public. I understand the reasons for it, however, I would rather see NO comments than censored comments.

A better way to go would be to force everyone to use their REAL names. This mask of anonymity is what's causing the problem: people say things they never would say if they had to sign their names to it. Until and unless the Gazette chooses to tie names with "handles" maybe all comments should be removed. Once we're all forced to use our real names, then maybe the Gazette can go back to opening the forum for people to post whatever thought--ignorant or inspirational--they have on the articles.

Curtaincall: I agree with you. I think the Gazette has an admirable quality that motivates them to allow people the right to comment here online: trust. I think that the Gazette trusts that the people reading these articles will "discuss" the issues, not take cheap shots and attack people. For the record, I've read a lot of amazing discussions that enhance the articles. Unfortunately, this isn't the case with this article. It could be the subject matter. I think that poverty always strikes a nerve because people want to believe that they alone have made their life what it is. I won't deny the truth in that to a certain extent, but at the same time it is ludicrous to refuse to acknowledge that there is a large degree of luck involved in peoples lives. What you were born in to. Your genetic makeup. Both of these statements play a large role in how your life will most likely turn out to be. Am I saying that you can't do anything to change it? Absolutely not. I will say, however, that having been born into a stable loving family and having been born healthy are two very powerful trump cards in the game of life. This comment is not meant to inspire people to write out their sad stories. Everyone has one. A lot of us have overcome ours. The idea is to acknowledge that some people have a sadder story, one that hasn't been overcome yet. Instead of wasting your time pointing out the negative decisions, which isn't so hard to do, why not take on a challenge, and attempt to understand and help those in poverty? I'm 28 years old, and am still amazed by the way humans treat each other.

Do people think she likes living like this? Do you think she would rather worry about how she is going to pay for things. Stupid people , leave stupid comments. I am one that does not understand why the gazette ever decided to allow comments. Some people have no filter in their brain and just say what ever they think. No common sense.

First of all, I'd like to thank the Gazette for publishing this (and several other) articles regarding poverty here in Janesville. The topic is often overlooked, and I think this article did a good job unveiling an average day in the life of someone living in poverty. Unfortunately, a lot of people who read this article couldn't see it for what I believe it was: an attempt to allow people to understand. Instead it led to many people judging and equating this woman's story with their own. The idea is to understand that no two stories are the same.
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Secondly, I'd like to acknowledge the courage it took for this young woman to share her story. Pride often gets in the way of honesty, and I have no doubt after having read the story that this woman has a lot of pride.
She finds it embarrassing that she is on state programs. For her to allow the Gazette to publish her and her children's (as it is their story, too) stories takes a lot of guts. I guarantee you she knew there would be people judging her. It's just too bad that so many of the readers first impulse was to point out the negatives of this woman, rather than try and understand how this situation came to be. She acknowledged and owned up to her mistakes, only to have so many of us bloggers judge her.
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While it is your right after having read this story to automatically assign blame or judge this woman, I only ask that you understand that this is an issue that affects all of Janesville. A great many of us are not poverty stricken, but the effects of there being people who are can be seen all over the city. Take a moment, step back and just TRY to see how this could happen. And after you've done that, instead of using your energy to rip this woman apart, TRY and see what you can do to help.

Denying people the right to express their opinion, nasty or not, is full blown censureship. I understand it is the Gazette's website and they can do what they want, but they are in the free speech business, and I wonder if they limit what they report due to insensitivity, or concern for peoples feelings etc.

I believe what it the core to certain persons bitterness to people using assistance is the wide spread abuse of it. I for one am cautious of ones intent when they are using certain programs available. No decent person would deny help to someone who really needs it, especially if the person who is helping can. What is the sore spot, is people making "bad" choices because they know they can. There is always some kind of assistance out there for them. If there wasn't any lifeline, would these same people make those dicey choices? If you make good money and you make a bad choice, you are on your own. But, if you are poor and you make bad choices, you have an ala carte of assistance waiting for you.

Stinky_Socks: I couldn't have said it better. I've thought a lot about those rude, callous comments in the past 18 hours or so. They brought up memories of my elementary school years when a classmate was taunted endlessly because her family was very poor. I couldn't understand the behavior of others then nor could I understand the behavior of some of those commenting yesterday on the article featuring Kathy. I also kept thinking about Kathy's children who were probably eagerly awaiting the story to be published ... and then I prayed that they would not get access to a computer to read those comments. Cruel people either don't care or cannot comprehend the pain they cause. Scott, thank you, thank you for taking down that forum yesterday.

This is NOT a first amendment issue. If you don't like the content you are free to start a 'janesville gazette stinks' website or shout it out from rooftops at the top of your lungs or start a group to boycott the paper (even better just read another d*mn paper!!). Remember you are on a PRIVATE board so treat it as PRIVATE property, if they don't want it there it is well within their right to delete your comment or all comments (see: User Policy Agreement). Also for those who are whining about it those comments weren't just some random opinion they were arrogant, rude, and hurtful and most importantly embarrassing for me that people in the county I grew up in could be so vicious and hateful to others that live here.

I agree with your closing the forum once someone that actually KNEW her posted personal things about her. I just feel like you could have found a much more sympathetic person that which was chosen. I say this only because while her kids lacked food in the fridge, she had beer, and, as far as a budget, I also have 4 children and I make it on $1600 a month with no governmental assistance and a mortgage that is a bit over $800. It simply feels like the gazette did a poor job in who they chose to interview. Had it been a disabled person, a retiree that now struggles, I think it would have been different. And, the reality is that she has luxuries many of us can't afford. The story was written with a "sympathetic" tone. If it wasn't intended to draw sympathy, then, it would have focused on numbers, statistics, and, dealt with anonymous people. yet, it went for sympathy- talking about prices, etc. I thought these forums were opened for people to discuss their opinions on the topic. Again, once the person that knew her personally posted, I agree that it should have been closed, or atleast that post removed. But, the rest of us, we were just stating our opinions... And, that is the 1st amendment by which reporters keep their jobs, isn't it? So, why are we (with the exception of that one post) being censored?

I, like a lot of people, got into some trouble with credit card debt and my credit score is pretty bad. Why do I tell you this? Because I had no idea that when applying for a job, employers can pull your score and decide to not hire you because of it. I have a very, very part time job right now but would like to get a new job. Even when I was hired for this job my credit history was brought to my attention. I am trustworthy, honest and punctual and yet nobody will give me a chance. I have a son that I am supporting with help from his father and we are living with relatives right now. I would love to be able to rent my own apartment and drive a better car. I could ask the state for help but right now I am not to that point. I would like to be able to do it on my own. I do not have a criminal record and it would be nice if employers were a little more willing to hire people that are willing to work any and all hours asked. The job I have right now requires me to collect money and bring that money home (not a home party business - it's through a fundraiser company)and prepare deposits and take those deposits to the bank. I can obviously be trusted with being around cash and checks unsupervised. There are some people out there that would like to get ahead but aren't allowed to. I am one of those people. Yes, there will always be people that take advantage of the system but it gets really discouraging when you know you can do a job well and you are not given the chance to prove yourself. Shame on all the businesses that treat people that way. You are missing out on getting a really good employee.

Michelle, What would you propose as an alternative? What solutions do you see?
Personally, I'd rather not live in a country where children are begging in the streets for food. The children do not choose their parents and they deserve to have a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs. If the parents are not making the best choices, then we need to find ways to educate them. Money management classes, nutrition classes, mentors, and the like, for the parents are how we can break the cycle for the children. Simply attacking people over their bad choices does nothing to solve the problems of the system.

Scott -
I agree with you point. However, it is important that Janesville offer the opportunities of people in poverty of finding better lives rather than the same group expecting the government, local and otherwise, to give them better lives. This line is crossed many many times since it is common practice that families, sometimes generations, live a lifestyle on the welfare system.

j0, to help with school supplies, etc, you can contact ECHO. They just did a school supply distribution through their office. You may also try Salvation Army and/or any schools in your neighborhood. I also urge readers to not just donate supplies, but when your kids outgrow their clothes, contact the schools as well....many children have "accidents" at school or need socks, mittens, etc.

I am still trying to reconcile the judgemental comments and harsh criticism of my fellow readers for the poverty stricken. Do most of us attach a stigma to poverty and equate "being in poverty" to a moral deficit or charater flaw? Does criticism flow from a political belief based on the perception that the social safety net is wrong and misguided, and those who use it deserve condemnation? Is it just as simple as "damn it all, I made it, and so can you if you just buckle down and pull you own weight"? And finally, are the put downs a misguiding mechanisms for some to elevate their own self esteem at the expense of those in poverty. Perhaps your series will touch on our perceptions of poverty.

michelle483, quite a few assumptions in your last paragraph there, ranging from the overall cost per person to the intent of the recipient. I'm sure you would not appreciate having the community sit in judgment of you; why would you do it for another person? Somehow, you feel justified in jumping to the conclusion that someone is "taking advantage" when you have no such evidence. Most of the programs you cite are not free for the asking, they are means-based. In other words, someone had to meet an objective standard of income or family size in order to receive it. Apparently, reading the articles has done little to enlighten your conceptions of the real experience of people in poverty.

How does one go about helping this family with back to school supplies? I'd like to do that. We adopt families in need for Christmas.Why not for back to school?

I think part of the PROBLEM is that it's not PC to call anybody's actions out like this because it may offend them. The censorship of these kinds of words is what makes bad choices seem ok to a large chunk of society.

I see people every day in my business who apply for jobs with a bad attitude, and some who slip in where we are constantly filling out benefit form after benefit form. And they're usually the problem employees. What really disgusts me is when you give someone a chance...give them more responsibility, the chance at moving up, that 90% of the time, if they've already been living on the "system" they will not appreciate it, take advantage in other ways, and completely screw up their priorities.

In fact, it is screwed up priorities that cause the problems to occur. I think that is what all the "attacks" are getting at. Maybe not in a nice way, but in a pretty straightforward, honest way.

Case in point: I had an employee who was a single mom of 4 (with 4 different fathers) who I saw some potential. However, she increasingly was coming in late, leaving early, calling in, making last-minute excuses, etc. The kicker was when she was issued a $500 company credit card for use for networking incidentals(which I thought was never activated), she took a few days off right before she quit, and proceeded to use it to get her nails done, take a trip to Florida, and use it to drink margaritas and buy clothes. And the nice thing is that I, as an employer, am not allowed to take that money out of her paycheck. Now, what kind of screwed up priorities are those?

Just like the soda, beer, and what nobody mentioned the cable TV (Spongebob is on Nickelodean).

When I was out of college and deep in debt, I didn't get cable. I used a cheap cell phone plan and did not have a landline. I bought my food cheaply. Was I perfect? No, of course not. But I had priorities, goals, and a plan. And now I can afford all of those luxuries and more.

The attacks occur because for many of these people, we are essentially supplying, between rent assistance, ssi, medicaid, badgercare, subsidied daycare, and more, $30,000-$40,000 per year to support them. Those are OUR taxdollars, that COULD be used to assist an elderly woman who needs some care and assistance, to help make education more affordable, or to give tax breaks to small, struggling businesses. Or just more money in the pockets of ordinary, hardworking Americans who have good priorities.

The "attacks" come from people who are sick and tired of seeing people all around them take long-term advantage of programs that are intended to be short-term crutches. If somebody came up to you and stole $5 from your wallet because they made bad choices and didn't have a few bucks for lunch because they spent too much on beer, wouldn't you feel compelled to "attack" their character? That's how many of the readers feel.

Scott,

Interesting articles this morning. I had an opportunity to read the paper before venturing online. Scathing comments. I winced at a few. One thing my wife and I discussed was the budget you shared in the article. When different mediums tackle an in-depth piece like this they try to bring along solutions. I'll use Oprah as an example (sorry)...but she'll share the story, the family and bring in a Suze Orman (or other professional depending on the topic) to frankly lay out the good, bad and ugly solutions. Sure, they may be somewhat sensational and that may work better on TV, but it does point out the strengths and weaknesses of both the situation and the people living within the situation. So many things were racing through my head as I was reading: Plenty of questions and some real head shakers. I was reading portions of the article and wondering what the next two days would bring. Your thoughts?

Scott,
it's too bad you had to write this. As a single mother who also struggles with making ends meet, I was happy to read the article about Ms. Patrick. If this were a perfect world, articles about poverty and homelessness would never have to be written. But, we are not living or demonstrating perfection. A person is only as strong as their society and neighbors allow them to be. Fortunately, my local society, friends, neighbors, and co-workers; have helped me to be great person. Sadly though, this very same society is chopping a woman's character. I do not know Kathy Patrick...but I would love to sit down with her and see if I can help her in the same way my friends, community, etc have helped me.

You hit the nail on the head Scott.

I read the article last night at midnight and almost put for the first comment that the comment section should be closed because it was going to get ugly. There are so many judgmental people on here who don't want to discuss solutions, just attack others. That woman was courageous to share her story. Sure she has made a lot of mistakes and probably still makes some, but she is trying to better her life and should be commended for the progress she has made.
Thanks Gazette for bringing the topic of poverty to light.

POVERTY is a REALITY in our community along with homelessness and thank you Scott for taking the time to put reality in perspective to those that have not a clue what it is really like to be there !!I have had my share of struggles and with faith and true friends and community help I have pulled thru and did OK.

It's unfortunate, but this is a situation where reader comments may be superfluous and only serve to be hurtful to someone who is not in the paper for doing something wrong.

The comment section should be removed.

Thanks for writing this Mr Angus. I was looking forward to this series of articles and when I read all the bashing that everyone was doing, it did nothing but disgust me on how mean and nasty that these people were being to a total stranger. Lately, that is all these boards have seem to become is a place to bash people whether they be teachers or GM workers. There are alot of intelligent people in this town and it is too bad that everyone can't get past the personal attacks and work towards improving Janesville as a whole.

Scott,
Well stated. I think the poverty series as a whole will be enlightening to say the least. I have read the other stories about this topic so far, and it is good to see that the Gazette is approaching this subject from a variety of viewpoints. Poverty isn't just about the woman that you profiled today.