Steve, in recognition of your recent conversion to the LIGHT, you have been awarded a free year's membership in the Janesville Area Alliance of Atheists.

JAA also welcomes you with two free tickets to next July's human sacrifice, where you'll be regaled as a special guest.

Welcome Aboard!!!

andre...., you made the failed claim that I didn't prove my point. Get on with it.

GF even has a witness to offer as proof - a testimonial if you will. He rpoved that god did not exist and you cannot prove that he did not do that.
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I really don't think you understand the idea here Andre - I am not sure you understand our point.

andre...., as prounion said, you failed to prove that I didn't prove that god doesn't exist. Please get back to us once you can state your case convincingly.

andre...., some times "proof" and "reasons why [I] think [I'm] right" are one and the same, like in the extent case.

And even if I was as wrong as you say I am, hypocracy would be the wrong word.

No, prounion, he didn't say any of that stuff. He came close to calling me an anal aperture though.

Was that all - bummer. I thought he finally understood the point about the human mind's endless ability to conjur up wild unprovable, untestable ideas and the burden of proof being on the claimant. As a correlary I thought his post went on to say that he now understands how irrelevant it is to make the claim that one has not proven that something does not exist and how he understands the concept of the christian god is not entirely dissprovable just extremely unlikely in the extreme, like santa, or any of the myriad of other gods through history and today.

andre....., excellent use of the exclamation point! Who held the shift key down for you?

By the way, did you mean pseudo-intellectual and not quasi-intellectual?

prounion, I might have to agree with andre..... on this one. There've been worse posts that haven't been deleted. His post was merely a bunch of inappropriate, unjustified, low-brow insults (can't remember them exactly) that had the reverse effect of shaming andre..... himself.

Possibly he requested the removal as a ploy for one more thing to be nasty about.

I wish that post had not been removed I was looking forward to reading your response. Andre can you rephrase it?

I don't work for the Gazette and I didn't request that the 10:16a be deleted.

andre....., face the fact that you don't have anything substantial to say about your stance.

I resent the implication!!!!

This time, andre..... painted himself into a sack.

No problem bud. Please allow me the opportunity to clarify. I would be the one to put all of those things that I could not prove do not exist into a sack. I would then inform you that said sack existed. Lets call it an idea sack. My point was that the outrageous claim that an idea sack that could contain all of the things we can't prove do not exist could in itself exist, due to your inability to prove it did not exist, further underscores the point that the burden of proof must be on the claimant.
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Allthough I am pretty sure the humor is lost if one needs to explain the joke. Then again if you can't prove that no one thought it was funny then I guess I am justified in my claim that it was indeed funny? Same logic would apply to wise and revolutionary. Brilliant, ect.

Easy Andre - you were correct there are some undefined things out there that we can not prove do not exist, for what that is worth.
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Course if I were to take all of those things and put them in a sack, you could not prove the sack does not exist, just saying.

I hope max doesn't notice this post.

60% of all people are killed by spontaneous abortion.

Its clear that god hates babies. Numbers 31 is one example. Intelligent design is another:
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Cancer, in all its forms, kills 7.6 million people per
year, while spontaneous abortion kills 30 times this number
(World Health Organization 2005). In 6 years, the Second
WorldWar killed approximately 60 million people, whereas
spontaneous abortion kills more than three times this number
every year.
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http://www.amirrorclear.net/academic/pap...

Ahh, maxdetail! Since you've been alerted by a "sound" that you claim is so unintelligible to you that you don't even acknowledge it, despite your contradictory ability to somehow recognize and comment on that very same ignored "sound" (or are you just intently waiting for a chance to desperately convince us that you're not actually paying attention at all?), maybe you could take the time to answer this question of mine that's been bothering me for some time now.
When you mentioned that you don't know who paid for your mentally disabled daughter's potentially life-saving abortion (and thus admitted you failed to take personal financial responsibility), were you referring to the procedure that was performed by a doctor in Madison who was sought out by, and who would have required the consent of, you or a guardian of your daughter's? Applying your previously expressed logic, does this not make your daughter and you/her guardian (and specify which is the case, if you could) complicit and guilty in that "baby murder"? Help me understand how (as you claim) the blame rests solely with the doctor who was given consent to perform her job, which you allowed tax dollars pay for, on a daughter who you receive government subsidies to raise.

Just a warm breeze Max. Close your eyes again and relax, nothing to worry or think about here.

Was that the wind? Just some hot air I guess. Seems to be a lot of that. Must be global warming.

"If your faith is that strong, isn't it enough?"
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You'd think so, but faith isn't all that sustaining. Faith is ultimately a lonely business. It's spread under the guise of rescuing souls, but its true basis is the simple premise that there is strength in numbers. Such a priority on membership/donations also helps to make a group appear more palatable, the way that seeing a person wearing a wedding ring tells you that at least there's one person who can tolerate them.

By the way, max, for the content of your recent post to be true, by necessity it wouldn't exist.

andre...... seems to be upset about something.

Right on, leostime.....

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I guess you didn't hear anything Max, back to sleep my friend.

There's a sound that florescent lights give off that is so repetitive, predictable, droning, unchanging and ever present that I don't even notice it anymore. Then there are septic skeptics here who really are the textual equivalent of '60 cycle hum'. Did I hear something?

I understand people have strong faith, believe in a god, or their god. What I don't understand is the reason to congregate and give money to the church. If your faith is that strong, isn't it enough? I understand the churches taking your money, what a racket. I don't understand why so many people who are barely getting by keep funding these churches. The churches are very fortunate that people are so easily led.

Ok Andre. Will do.

Andre - I originally used perfect spelling and grammer, then my perfect post was touched by the devil, changing it into what you read. Yet another thing you can't prove is not true. See the point we are making?
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Max - you are not just meat without christ - and neither are the billions of other humans that do not follow christ. That thought however is yet another example of how christians devalue human life, no wonder religion and blind faith leads to so much violence.
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Did you have a take on the Numbers 31 passage where god directly orders the slaughter of innocent babies and how it relates to the attributes of god you mentioned in your post?

Narcissism is when someone believes he or she has personal relationship with the almighty creator of the universe while thousands of innocent babies, children, and adults suffer and die each hour from dirty water, natural disasters, and other causes.

Steve is coming to terms with the true nature of the human experience; in so doing, he is exhibiting courage and integrity. We wish him well.

Steve, we all struggle against narcissism.
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We ought to go to church to ascribe to God His supreme worth for He alone is supremely worthy. We express our gratitude for the reconciliation He brought in sending Christ to atone for our sins. If you are not motivated by gratitude or a need to worship than you are just trying to get something OUT of church.
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If you have decided that supreme worth is only found within ourselves, then you will naturally find more contentment staying home.
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If you do feel a longing for something that is transcendent, then you must get your eyes off your own felt needs, see your true spiritual lack (apart from Christ we are just meat) and cry out for mercy.

I wonder if this is what Steve had in mind!!!

Relax Andre - your among friends here. The Flying Spaggetti Monster loves you. May he touch you with his noodly appendage. FYI you cannot prove the FSM did not create the world and all of us.

Publish, andre.....? Apparently you haven't read my book, it's called the Bible.

By the way, prounion and I are co-equals as bible scholars. foolonthehill handles particle physics and the occasional good-natured bon mot.

Wow, andre...., you must really be losing here to take rotten shots like that. I liked you better when you didn't exist.

I think andre..... has found proof that even he doesn't exist.

Maybe billnewbie has gone whole-hog into witchcraft.

Is god doing it? Adnre would say that we cannot prove it is not god so it could really be god changing the count. This may be the proof we have been looking for.

GFan, maybe posts are being removed by thy staff... and thy sword.

The tally keeps increasing, but the posts don't appear.

I may have to re-think this thing. ;~)

It is duly noted that Steve Knox's tacit capitulation to the point that the underlying cause for the belief in Christ, the Bible, includes a mentality that is justification for the abandonment of that very belief.

;~)

Scripture is supposed to be the inspired word of god. Christian belief in god is based in scripture. It is very possible that a malaise developes in believers stemming from the untenable mentality of some scripture. Such scripture tugs at and torments the human decency that is the product of biological and cultural evolution.

Numbers 31:17-18

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

I don't think you are going thru anything different than most people have gone thru..Soon you will realize that God is everywhere, not just church!

Matthew 10:34-37

[Jesus says] Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.

Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me

Mr. Deity will make anybody laugh
http://www.youtube.com/user/misterdeity

More seriously, Daniel Dennet's "Good Reasons for Believing in God". Not quite what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJZQwy9d...

Of course, Richard Dawkins will MAKE YOU THINK
http://www.youtube.com/user/richarddawki...

Steve - I found a book that really helped my faith but helping me see another side. You need to read 'Lamb, the gospel according to Biff' -- it's great and helped me laugh, and helped me think hard about Jesus being for ALL people!

"Maybe the book I should be reading is the Book rather than the one I'm currently enjoying."
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Only if you wanted to loose your faith all together! I don't think most of the people in church could really speak to the slaughter/evil god of the old testament or some of the inherent conflicts of logic with the idea of a loving god that hides so well and punishes so eternally and severly for non-belief as is found in the new testament.

But seriously, Steve, you may have to face the fact that your intellect has developed beyond your willingness to tolerate certain... well... let's just say certain things.

Steve, here's a suggestion: STOP READING BILLNEWBIE'S POSTS.

By the way, next time only hand me one program, not two!!!

And how 'bout that chick sitting near the isle in the third row?! HOT!!!

Maybe you have figured out that Churches are about business not religon.

I wish you well in your quest for increased spirituality. You're off to a good start just by "showing up". I'll come when you least expect it. When my spirit flags, I concentrate on looking outward to helping others rather than inward and asking "what's wrong with me?"