Well, there's speculation that Kia might fold. Maybe they have those long warranties so they can sell the cars without having to follow through on the warranties.

@ birdman

you must have been mistaken for a management suck up..poor fella

@Sigma40 "Because im used to buying GM cars made by worthless lazy union people. :) I know this because my parents worked there...lol. and a lot of friends and family."

Really? You should be ashamed of yourself.

"I bought a 99 GM car a few years back, not that old. I ended up going through a lot of it, lots of poorly designed stuff.. leaky cowl which they place the PCM right under it, cheap chinsy weather stripping, electrical problems they've had on the same car since the 60's and still havnt solved."

So, how is poorly designed and cheap parts the fault of the person who assembled it?

"Style is all they "had"... which they no longer do. The japanese and european cars are much more attention to detail, there is a lot more engineering in them."

I think you need to take a fresh look at what Detroit is putting out there...just saying. The old "rattle traps" from yesteryear are no more.

frogger, wouldn't the warranties transfer over to subsequent owners?

And doesn't a warranty mean that the manufacturer has confidence that it will not be incurring a lot of expense by repairing vehicles for free? Just asking.

gfan- because they'll need it but people will never use it because they get rid of the car because they don't like the cheap stuff.

Why does Kia have 5 year, 50,000 miles bumper to bumper and 10 year, 100,000 miles power train warranties?

birdman- if it is 20 different problems it is still not a lemon from what I understand.
It has to be the same problem 4 times and not able to fix it.
So you just have junk not a lemon.
even if 10 problems only 2 times each still not lemon just junk.
AND it is within the first year or 12k which ever comes first.

Um, we didn't fight against South Korea, where some Kia's and Hyundai's are made.

when it comes with a stamp that says JAPAN,KOREA, remember pearl harbor, the baton death march and the korean war. those proud americans gave their lives for your freedom of choice. buy and support usa products!

Birdman - I am a car enthuseist, mostly GM, but I agree w/ you 100%. Most GM stuff has been poorly assembled junk. The only good GM cars Ive had are ones I completely rebuilt myself. Style is all they "had"... which they no longer do. The japanese and european cars are much more attention to detail, there is a lot more engineering in them. I bought a 99 GM car a few years back, not that old. I ended up going through a lot of it, lots of poorly designed stuff.. leaky cowl which they place the PCM right under it, cheap chinsy weather stripping, electrical problems they've had on the same car since the 60's and still havnt solved. I never buy any car without planning to put money in it...why? Because im used to buying GM cars made by worthless lazy union people. :) I know this because my parents worked there...lol. and a lot of friends and family.

Another reflection on why Blind Loyalty to GM does not happen in my family:
. . . .
Summer of 1983. Pre-Lemon Law. My wife and I buy a brand new Oldsmobile from a local dealership. Twenty . . . yes, 20!- - -trips to the repair shop in the first eighteen months. My “GM friends” chuckled, saying it was probably a Monday Car or a Friday Car. The implication that weekend drinking on the job began on Friday shifts or was still recovering Monday shifts, affecting quality of their work. An acceptable risk when buying GM, those "friends" pointed out. And those guys and gals sure want to pressure all of us for “loyalty” to that sort of work standard. Are you serious‽ Bollocks!

Ref.: jmac420 . . . why do people bash GM?
. . . .
I worked on the GM assembly line in Janesville in “the good old days” in the body shop, making Impalas, Caprices, and their station wagon counterparts. Second shift. Witnessed all manner of blatantly poor performance of men in my immediate area. Confronted my foreman, asking why didn’t he do something about them‽ His remark was that he had tried to, but the union protected them from serious discipline or firing. (Drunk or impaired by other substance abuse, good old UAW will get me reinstated, right‽) Yet a union bully threatened to call the shop bull on me because I dared to sweep up the pig sty that was our break area. Despite whole days passing without sign of the custodian and his broom. It wasn’t my job, you see. So the Good Old Boy system wants blind loyalty from me to reward marginal craftsmanship and to pay for retirement of people like that? Bollocks!

Dumb. 7 vehicles in my name... Not one Toyota, Subaru, Kia, Nissan, Hyundai, etc.

Bucky I appreciate when people such as yourself make it obvious that you are closed minded and possibly ignorant so I can stay clear and protect my sanity, it is very similar to when I see people with political stickers on their car I know who the idiots on the road are so I can steer clear and for that I thank you sir.

cholon14 - Dont blame GM for making gas guzzlers... Blame the govt. The vehicles themselves are capable of awesome mpg, but all the govt mandated safety options turn all the vehicles into tanks that weigh 4000lbs+. While the engines are more efficient.... the weight brings the mpg right back down so they gain nothing. That and all the fake emmisions junk, having emmision/anti-polution devices on a car actually reduce the mpg... so you burn more fuel to make your emmisions cleaner. So with the emmision and safety junk we have vehicles that rival the mpg of the 80's ...not bad, not good either. Point is, if we all started using considerably less fuel....they'd jack the prices up sky high. As long as the govt has anything to do with automanufacturers.....safety and polution... it will always be a lose/lose situation.

I grew up with GM being the sole income my home. I think if the people would pay American made, maybe we wouldn't where we are today.

My father and grandfather always had an American made car while I was growing up...and neither one of them ever worked for a US automaker. I think there was a sense of pride back in those days to buy American vehicles and whatever products you can. I do believe the American people in general have lost that sense of pride...but not all of their own doing. Just because you drive a Kia or any other foreign made vehicle...I don't think that makes you "less patriotic" than anyone else...please don't mistake that.
Since our "global" economy has become so "important" these days, it's nearly impossible to find anything produced in America.
Everything made in America we took for granted "back in the day". Master locks, Carharrt clothing, Fruit of the Loom, the list can go on and on. But, back to the vehicles shall we?
I've had Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn, Dodge, AMC, Oldsmobile, and a Toyota...yes a Toyota produced in Georgetown, KY back in the 90's, my only abrasion in an otherwise perfect run of US manufacturer's products. Yeah, I know it was made in America, but as Steve points out, the mothership is offshore.
I do believe as Americans it is our right to buy whatever we want with the money we make and nobody should tell us what we should or should not buy. I mean, that's one of the things that makes our country great right?? Our freedoms and all that good stuff. (Now for my soapbox)
I also believe that we should not forget what made this country great as well.The men and women of this great country putting it all on the line for our freedoms, losing their lives, shedding their blood. The men and women that supported the war efforts "back in the day", building vehicles and tanks and airplanes and weapons for our country to use in those wars while our troops were sacrificing their lives for us. Those war machines were being produced right here in America, in those same factories that built Chevy and Plymouth and Ford products. Our grandfathers fought for our freedoms, to build this great country, and we sell it out today for foreign made products.
Sad really, I think we all know somebody affected in one way or another by outsourcing our jobs to foreign countries. Manufacturing, radiology, technical support jobs, etc...it's an endless list...and for what? So corporate America can create more income and profit? So our companies can compete in the "global economy"? And yes, even our car companies have outsourced, moved product to foreign lands, set up shop in places like China and Russia, but they are still here...the mothership isn't offshore...yet anyway.
So, go buy what you want. I'm going to continue to buy as many American made products I can when I find them...because I still have that sense of pride I guess and I'll continue to buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, at least their products made in America...yes, you can see it on the sticker before you buy...if you take the time to look. God Bless America!

For many years my wife and I said GM make a Yukon etc that will get 25 MPG. If the upper ranks of GM had pulled there heads out of there ------ they would still be working in Janesville. When gas hit $4.00 a gal it broke there back. We all saw it coming. Make a more fuel effecient vehicle and you will do fine when gas goes higher. But no year after year they kept those gas guzzlers coming. GM can ONLY blame themselves for the closing of the GM plant. Same thing happened in Beloit at the Beloit Corporation.I worked there for 22 years. I saw poor management and walked away from a good management job at 53 years of age. Sure enough 5 years l;ater they were closed. Now multiply that by hundreds of companies in the US that make POOR management decesions and you will understand why this country is in such a poor postion in the world.

No foreign vehicles in my driveway and no walker supporters either.I didn't walk picket for economic justice and then forget my brothers and sisters when I retired.
RECALL WALKER.

flying_monkeys - Who are the military serving? Look where they are located around the world and explain how that serves me and my tax dollars spent. And to call it a "honor and privilege"...HA! To a lot its a second chance program and a free ride. These people willing to die are brainwashed into thinking they are doing it for our country.. in reality they are willing to die for some other country we are sticking our nose into. My point... What difference does it make if we here buy foreign products when we have our military and govt handing out billions to other countries?...in the form of OUR military helping them, supplies, training, weapons, vehicles, aircraft...etc. And ya... we are paying for it.

When somebody else buys my car they can tell
me what to drive. With that being said, I have a chevy Equinox with over 127k and it runs great. My dad retired from GM after 35 years but will never buy another GM vehicle for various reasons not really related to the quality of the vehicles. He never was one to get bothered about a foreign vehicle GM was just a job not a religion to him.

When I purchase anything, I search as long as I possibly can for American made products. I really believe that anyone who does not do this in todays tough economic times is unAmerican...period. I spent more hours in stores Christmas shopping than I have in the rest of my life combined. In my mind, it does not always have to be American owned, but it does have to be American made. I find it amazing that some of my loud mouth anti-liberal friends do not agree with me.

Sigma,

Considering the U.S. Military is an all volunteer military why would you even waste your precious time comenting on those who serve? More importantly why would you continue (I assume) to live in the United States and pay taxes?

Its your tax dollar (and mine) that pay for the military-if you are so opposed to supporting those willing to die for someone elses cause wouldnt you feel better freely living somewhere-where your tax dollars are spent much more wisely?

There is nothing patriotic about paying for something you have no interest in-is there?

Sigma..."Just because you are in the US military means nothing..."
dear- you are so very wrong!
Weather you agree with the "fight" or not, being in the US Military is an honor and privilege to those who serve- no matter where they are serving or how they are serving. THEY ARE SERVING!!! That is the point! Bless our troops at home and abroad.

froggy - you wrote: "EMMO you better keep it then because it is worth way less than half the price of any Hondas or Toyotas with the same year and mileage".

My Sorento cost a whole lot less than the Hondas and Toyotas when I bought it seven years ago too. I did my homework and shopped intelligently.
Besides, I really don't care what you car dealers say it's worth...because I am keeping it for another seven years and 100,000 miles.

Zoom- you have it part correct.
It was harms Nissan before they moved to Kia
Pontiac store closed.
VW went to CDJ- Bouche
Mazda went to Ford-Bouche and
Pontiac to Rock County Honda then Pontiac went out of business.

Why is it the only recall Walker bumper stickers I see are on big gm suv's?
Love my Subaru.......17 yeaars, 110K miles and still purring

I drive A LOT & my car of choice is the DeVille. I buy them for cash a few years old, crank the mileage up to 200k or more, sell them for cash & repeat. Great value so far, but with gas prices this American girl is reconsidering & may just go with a small reliable import that gets good gas mileage next time around. And who gave me that idea? My best friend in Janesville of course. So yes, I think Janesville is open to other options just like other parts of the nation. In the end, to each his / her own.

sigma...you should be freakin ashamed and quite honestly need a serious lesson taught to you...Words can not explain what I think of you and your BS comments...your a complete looser

Wow, you would never know by most responses that this is supposed to be the "Holiday Season." Mr. Knox is only asking a question and giving his opinion, no big deal. We all have our opinions so there is no reason to get so excited. I am surprised nobody mentioned that it was Walkers fault (not that i am a Walker supporter). It is great to read everybody's opinion but i can tell that some keyboards are smoking in the stateline area right now as they cannot type fast enough. Chill out. And, just to tick some people off, i only drive vehicles from the Big 3. Peace out.

Seriously!! You all really need to get a life!! Use your passion for a good cause instead of being passive aggressive!!

Sigma,

I said I wouldn't stomach criticisim and there you went and criticized, and what can I do?
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I guess I was wrong after all..
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But when I read your post I did throw up a little bit. So I guess I diddn't stomach everything.
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So you keep hanging on to that bitterness.. Expecting, in fact feeling entitled to demand that everybody buy GM cars because you or your mommy or daddy worked there, and anybody who does't think like you must be just like the people that bombed the U.S. 60 years ago.
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You don't have to love and respect the people who protect you either.. They do it because it is right. Not because they are trying to break through your hatred for them.

redder explained the values of the big three well now if those GM people would only understand when they spent $25,000 on the Malibu I know darm well you didn't spend retail. So after the discount and rebates and low finance you cannot understand why your 1 yr old is worth $14,000, of which you really only paid $16,000 with your discount, I cannot help you. How can we give you more when the big three selling tons of these to the rental companies, bringing your values down as redder mentioned, they can just get them at the auction all day long. Thank GM for your trade value and stop taking it out on the dealer and personal there. BTW- KBB is just a guide. Dealers look at ACTUAL facts of what is going through Manhiem.

Steve, the local auto dealers are expanding through consolidation. Two dealerships closed, with their brands going to Boucher and Harms.

Lar80, interesting point about Case IH. They are owned by Fiat, who now also own Chrysler. I wonder what Steve's opinion would be if his family had wroked at the Belvidere Chrysler plant or the Mitsubishi plant in Normal, IL, instead of Janesville GM.

Everyone has the right to buy the car of their choice. My choice will always to buy GM though I must admit it is no longer with the same sense of pride. What still bugs me though is when I pull behind a Kia, about as non union as there is, and see it plastered with stickers about supporting workers in Wisconsin or having one of those Stalin like fist maps of Wisconsin. I can only assume that the driver is totally oblivious to the message they send. No doubt they are public union members who could care less about anyone else.

Steve, why does it matter that the locally made vehicle had a Chevy badge, rather than a Toyota badge? The manufacture of the vehicle creates the most economic activity and a strong middle class, not profits. Afterall, GM didn't even make a profit for at least a decade before the recession.

Why would you be loyal to a company that required and asked for a government bailout? Your family members probably worked hard in the factory, and were compensated for it. Once the plant closed, I don't understand why anyone would have loyalty to GM.

U.S. made products, yes. GM as a company, no.

Last time I looked...Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Nissan and Nissan had nothing to do with Pearl Harbor. Kia is not a Korean conspiracy by Kim Jung to bring money to communism. These are companies, not countries. The only factors to buying a new (or used) car should be personal taste, price, usage, gas milage, resale value, warranty, quality, safety rating, etc... Anything else is an illogical reason to purchase something.

Lar80 - What are you talking about "putting on a military uniform"? Most our battles and troops have NOT been fighting for America. Vietnam wasnt for us, Afganistan currently is not fighting for us... In fact VERY FEW military personel have actuall faught for OUR country. Fighting for someone else on my tax dollar is not patriotic...Just because you are in the US military means nothing...Sorry. Im not please my tax dollars are trying to get a 3rd world country civilized... Thats just as bad if not worse than the people buying foreign cars from the people that bombed us.

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hiredgun makes another wonderful point.
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Local folks use a "Patriotisim" argument often, inferring we are lesser Americans if we don't buy American.
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Let me say this about that;
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I put on the uniform of the U.S. Military. I went where they told me to go without question. I did not bargain with my management for my wages. Many of us were ordered to put our lives on the line, many lives were lost in defense of our country.
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I understand patriotisim far more keenly than the person who put bumpers on a Blazer for 25 years, and I won't stomach criticisim for my purchases by their union guilt trip games.

Steve,
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I sure don't know anybody that is so strident that they won't let a Kia in there driveway, who is not also bitter about GM closures.. You say you do? Really? I guess you are a man about town, knowing far more folks than I.
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I don't need to buy GM cars to honor and care for my parents retirements. I just honor them and take care of them.
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More to the point... Wisconsin's Case New Holland/International Harvester factory *EXPORTS* 48% of everything they buuild.. Massive farm equipment shipped overseas at a huge cost.. They are UAW/IAM and the workers are highly skilled and cross utilized, (unlike Janesville GM/Lear) doing many tasks. The company is profitable and skilled labor is paid well, the unskilled labor makes low wages.. If the GM/UAW had done this type of model, and made some better cars.. We would not be having this conversation.. But you insist on beating on the dead horse, and it's reasonable since it's a big part of our history.
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Loyalty to family should be natural.. Loyalty to brand must be earned and kept.. Case New Holland/International has learned and adapted, much to there credit.. An excellent model to be followed by the wise. This type of succsess is what we should be putting into our encouraging editorials :)

GM had it's day. It caused its own demise and now it's time for others to step up and give us reliable, well-designed vehicles with unmatched warranties. I feel sorry for you, Steve, if you can't get your brain around that. Grow up and move on.

You are good example Steve why I do not like todays journalist. Journalist should report news and not give their opinion. Very unprofessional.

I am a retired Army and Vietnam vet. I paid my dues and I'll buy any car I damn well want and wont apologize to any of you.

kellim45- Impala and Lucerne are not the same. Lucerne is larger and considered a luxury car. I own a Lucerne and it is a great car. I did buy it because of it being made in America and also the fact that my Family has always enjoyed GM cars.

oh and Irishmafia..you are wrong on the resale side of Kia...percentage wise they are above GM on most lines

You know their are many points that Kia is junk, I have to tell you read consumer reports, they believe otherwise. As to the resale of any vehicle. Well I am sorry to say, that because of supply and demand, and the fact that rental companies are owned by auto manufacturers, your resale depends on exactly how many of these vehicles in the market place. So what does that mean to you, well if you paid 27000 for your Ford Taurus, at 1 year of age its worth about 14000 (current Manhiem) if you bought a Malibu LT1 its worth about 13000 (Manhiem) and lets not even touch trucks right now. Now the Janesville built tAHOES AND sUBURBANS ARE STILL HOLDING Strong however gas prices have effected that, and if you truely look at percentage of retail its still about 40% in the first year. All in all resale is effected by availability and the big 3 flood the rental car companies which cost you the consumer more money in over all REAL and TRUE car cost...Honda KIA Subaru dont flood the rental companies with vehicles to achieve sales leadership therefore they hold a stronger percentage of resale cost...Subaru Outbacks for example hold 70% after almost 3 years. Lowering your true cost of ownership...this is all a company management thing..I am sure many of you true GM loyalists may or may not have nown this. You see its great to be loyal to a product and I certainly respect that but dont do so blindly. Know how all of this is used against you by the upper management of these companies. They want volume, once it hits the dealers lot they dont care anymore, about you, about the dealer, or what happens next. Look at SAAB, proof right there. Forgien or Domestic..by the way Kia Optima and Sorrent are built in Georgia...is a choice that should be made by what you and your family enjoys. Plain and simple, if you like it and the numbers work then buy it, its your right.

Oh and for all you Hiroshima guys, and Pearl Harbor guys out there whom displayed your ignorance, I am a Marine Corps vet. I support Americans and their families. Your not buying the car from a Korean or person whom is Japanese unless they are a Jananese AMERICAN, or a KOREAN AMERICAN, these companies and dealerships in this country are run and owned by Americans whom hire Americans and are probably your neighbors, again whom support other companies who might sell American products...lets get real here people, give up on the UAW rhetoric..move on and enjoy your life, but do so educated not ignorant...make informed choices and enjoy them. Too much UAW crap in this town. And now what does the UAW want to do...Unionize the south at these plants that make these products raiseing your cost yet again..or costing jobs to those who work at these plants...they too dont have to stay in this country to build their products...they can go back across the puddle..just like the big 3 have done...then what

Frogger; The outback and all Subaru's are only all wheel drive all the time, not the cobbled up junk that American manufactures make. It still drives like a rear wheel drive vehicle in the snow, you can steer with the throttle, you can't do that with the after thought all wheel drive junk that the others make.

After my last 3 GM vehicles, I can no long support that company. There is no reason a vehicle should need an intake gasket at 70k miles. My last three needed that, and then some, different models, different engines.

The only two GM vehicles I would ever consider are the 1500 Silverado truck, or a Buick.

I think disavowing all foreign models is a silly response. UAW and GM gave many here, and elsewhere, that upper middle class lifestyle, not just GM. Furthermore, why support a company that had such bad models and a poor corporate and design philosophy that they could not cope with the changing automotive and financial landscape? I feel the same about Chrysler. The only brand they have that is worth anything is Jeep, and they have successfully turned what used to be an accomplished off road vehicle into a a luxury SUV nobody can afford. They had horrid auto designs and leaned forever on the Dodge Ram pickups, long after people stopped buying them.
Buy the car that is the best long term investment. If that's American, great. If an American company can build a car that I don't have to sink thousands of dollars into before it's paid off then they'll get my money. So far, that has not been the case.

I have been a life long supporter of GM products until recently..
I had an issue with my "03 Chevy.. took it to the Local dealership. (after I received a recall on it).. They told me, Since I was over the mileage limit, they would not cover it..I was only over by a few hundred miles.. this was a corrosion at the fuel pump..(eh Safety Issue) they were going to charge me over $900 for parts and labor..I called Detroit and talked to the regional service director, and gave me the option of 10% off the labor cost.. after that I got a real bad taste in my mouth.. this was after owning a chevy ever since I began to drive... so yes I have a Kia in my drive way... it get better gas mileage than any of my old chevy's.. and the service dept at the dealership is alot friendlier than Chevy's also...

I buy what I can afford. Whatever brand it is. It's that simple.

Kis is junk and wont hold any value. I don't recommend that purchase.
Toyota and Honda are mostly built in the US and gives many jobs HERE.
So you buy GM and don't mind fixing it all the time and the low values they hold as well?
You do know GM LEFT this town- I think NOTHING is "owed" to them!!!

Now onto the "bailout" do you own your home?Bet not- it was a loan!
Honda and Jeep.

Emmo- better keep it then because it is worth way less than half the price of any Honda or Toyota with the same year and mileage.

kellim45
why"...I mean if you look at their vehicles, they are the same with three different names. Buick Enclave, Chevy Traverse, "
Because some people are not smart enough to know this. "I only buy Buick" Chevy version would be the smae thing just cheaper look.
I sold Dodge and Chrysler and people wouldn't touch a Dodge van "only Chrysler"- they go down the same darn line and get a different grill on them. SAME!

older-"anymore.

If you recall Japan attacked us and thousands of Americans died to kick their behinds back accross the Pacific. Why should I want their cars regardless of where they are assembled."

No wonder people are so far behind and wont tolerate anybody that isn't awhite person. With this attitude people will never move forward.
They build good stuff. they are way ahead of us and maybe we need to do something about this. Listen to what they have to say and what we can learn.
So do still call am American (Asian person) names even though you don't know them. I would guess so. Get to know them the war is OVER!!!! And they weren't even born yet or there.

Redder"
The attitude of Mr. Knox is one we need to get past if this city is ever going to survive. The UAW mentality, "
AMEN!

Ledfoot- so get an AWD Charger with v6 if they are stil doing that anyway. They come and go on what you can get with what engine and what package. They did improve fuel econ with the new automatics.
I never hear any complaints about an Outback. The forester seems a bit tinny to me.

I would't let my mother park a kia in my driveway! What happened to American pride? I know we have have freedom of choice. At sporting events we hear the U.S.A! cheers, but when it comes to American made products we bash the sh*t out of them. I don't get it. We as a country need to support American workers no matter if it is cars, tv's, clothes or what ever. God Bless America!

I dont know if the animosity or the scorn of owning a foreign automobile has left Janesville.

I own a Yukon and its been a great automobile for us-and I would not hesitate to buy another one. We also own foreign made vehicles. However, as other people have posted-the automobile industry is a global with GM making parts for foreign firms. I do not feel any guilt by buying a foreign made automobile.

It's interesting reading some of there posts. But I agree with sigma on the problems with GM and their idiotic obsession with front wheel drive. I am a diehard car guy and love performance vehicles of any brand, but you couldn't pay me to buy an American car right now. The Charger looks nice but put a 5.7 liter hemmy in it and the mileage sucks, the same is true with the Magnum. I'm a married man and want a 4 door performance car that is rear wheel drive or all wheel drive. That leave's out anything but Cadillac, my pockets aren't that deep.
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That's why I drive my Outback, true it only has a a 3.6 liter six, but its all wheel drive all the time, goes like a scalded dog and is unstoppable in the snow. On top of that my wive loves it. I can't get anything like that from American iron. Sorry to disappoint everyone but I know several former GM employees that have ridden in my car and admire how well built it is as well.
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If GM were being run by people who actually cared about cars and not just the bottom line, then maybe they would build cars I'd be interested in buying again, unfortunately that isn't going to happen any time soon.

This is very much an outdated debate. When it comes to vehicles, what does it mean to “buy American?” Is it buying American when you purchase an American assembled vehicle with an American label, but it has foreign parts? What about a vehicle that is assembled in another country with foreign parts, but it has an American company name? What about a vehicle with a foreign company name and foreign parts, but assembled in America? Which of those is “buying American?” Also, what about the fact that millions of Americans are owners of foreign car companies (stocks, mutual funds, and retirement portfolios)? What about the tens of thousands of American jobs provided in this country by companies with foreign names and American names? The reality is that we live in a global economy and as technology makes transportation and communication easier, our economy becomes more and more intertwined with the economies of the world.

Comparing a compact Kia to a full or midsize car like a Lumina or a Taurus is a failed comparison. I've owned both a sable (that just died after hitting the big 300k), and a currently a Taurus. Both are great running cars that get horrible gas mileage. People get so hung up on the brand name that they forget to check what they are actually getting. The problem with American cars isn't even about the quality anymore, it's the lack of technological advancement coupled with high overhead imposed on a car (Union made cars have to be sold at a higher premium). Re-wind back to the 70's, aside from Lee Iaccoca, auto manufacturers in the US refused to listen to the consumer, refused to look towards the future. All the while companies like Toyota and Honda looked towards making cars consumer wanted, but also how to make them more efficently thus reducing costs allowing more R&D and decreased costs to consumer. Toyota was one of the first to implement process improvement strategies in their maufacturing process. This key step has allowed them to be more profitable, while making less of a yearly profit than a company such as GM. Selling the most cars or making the record profits doesn't really matter when over 50% of profits generated go to employees no longer with company. This is why the Unions truly killed the America Automotive Industry. Paying millions to ceo salaries is trivial compared to the billions spent in benefits to workers.

The reality is that we live in a global economy. There is no more "Made in America" stamp on everything we purchase, unless you are Amish or Mennonite. American cars are built with pieces supplied from foreign countries-FACT. Many American cars aren't even assembled in the USA. However, many foreign cars (especially Asian) are assembled here. So is your loyalty to the brand (regardless of what goes into it, or where it's assembled) or where it's actually built (union vs non-union, usa vs other country).

I know most of you won't take the time to read this, but those of you who do can put two and two together and see why buying anything foreign is a bad idea in the end. http://www.dennews.com/opinion/columns/c...

I find it ironic that the same people who are advocating buying foreign cars are probably the same people complaining about the economy and probably mentioned at one point that "GM leaving won't effect me one bit." Keep buying those KIA's and Hyundai's and then make sure you drive that car to the local VFW Club and thank a soldier for that right.

I drove a kia optima for a weekend and I was not impressed with it at all. Rode rough, under powered, poor fit and quality. I'll stick with American made and owned vehicles. Right now we have a'05 sierra 1500 with 175k miles on it still runs and looks new, a '04 sebring convertable with 70k and a '02 cavalier with 140k all 3 have been great vehicles with no troubles, infact the sierra will probally hit 200k by the end of 2012! The last 2 vehicles that I had before I got the sierra was a '91 GMC suburban that had 214k on it and still ran like new but was starting to look rough when I sold it and a '02 Grand Caravan that had 212k on it when I sold it.

redder....read the fine print under Steve's blog. He's a community blogger. He doesn't receive any salary from the Gazette.

(K)orea (I)nvades (A)merica...what happened to patriotism?
>>>
Choose to support American families, with American children, and American mortgages...and buy American (when you can).
>>>
Yes, it is increasingly difficult to find American made products, but American motor vehicles are still easy to find if one can read the label.
>>>
Yes, it is a global economy, an economy that is quite out of balance if we have 10% unemployment, 40% of the income of those of us that ARE working is consumed by taxes, and 40% of those taxes are going to Medicare.
>>>
It doesn't take a math major to see where this is going.

BTW if I get the tahoe/yukon it wont be because we had a GM plant here, it will be because it fits what I need it for and the price range I'm looking at. (Wont buy a ford truck/SUV especially one with a triton motor).

BTW Steve, where was you computer made? TV? CD player? Or any other electronics?

2 Kia's in my drive. One of which is made in Georgia.

If Kia/Hyundai built a midsize or larger pickup, I'd buy one to replace the POS Dodge I have now. If I get a new pickup it will be a Nissan. Otherwise I may pick up an used late 90's/early 2000's Tahoe/yukon (back when they still were TRUCKS not overpriced luxury toys which cant handle off road use).

First, Steve, every individual has the freedom to buy which every make or model of vehicle that he/she chooses. America is based on Free Enterprise. Period. Apparently the union drum beats and chanting propaganda have erased any learning of that fact within a large segment of people connected to the auto industry.
. . . .
This is especially true for every man or woman who served our country in uniform, most especially war veterans, have darn well earned the right and privilege to buy ANY brand offered in the market place. Union brain washing ought to start its chanting with that fact. How in good conscience can someone support a different opinion‽
. . . .

Steve I also have a difficult time thinking some day purchasing anything other than a big 3 vehicle could happen. Except for the +3 years spent in Europe all mine except 1 have carried a big 3 name, the odd one was a rebadged Ford explorer (mazda navajo). Currently there are 2 big 3 vehicles parked in my garage, a 2007 model built in the janesville plant before closing and another built in flat rock from the blue oval.

Never know about the future, owners of Saab's are in pain now. Before I make another large purchase the solvency of the product maker will weigh highest on the list.

Steve, that would fall into the category
of splitting hairs with this crowd.
;-)

Not defensive at all. Just straightening a few twists...especially the ones where people claim libel (slander was mentioned but that's verbal).

I never thought that I would own an "off shore" vehicle, but it happened. Toyota is my first choice. They are reliable and comfortable. My Tundra is made in Texas and has more American made parts than the Dodge Ram. I do still own a vintage camaro, but for daily drivers Toyota wins.

my new carhart was made in mexico!

I know that I buy GM because I, too, was raised by a GM family. I also want to continue to support my parents retirement & health insurance.

I don't support free trade until it's fair trade where every nation we trade "free" with follows the same environmental and labor laws we do.

Mr Knox,
No need to get so defensive simply because others do not agree with your opinion. Some people just find your reasoning for your brand loyalty to be a bit simple. Your loyalty to a brand simply because your family members worked there and supported you with the money they earned there is certainly your prerogative. Ultimately, a brand is just a name. The people are what makes a brand or company truly something worth admiring, especially the people that are running that company and leading the labor that work for that company. The people that made GM here in Janesville (and nationwide as well) a company worth admiring have long since left the business or died. As time went by product quality suffered as did the handling of the entire company. The government had to step in to save GM and did a masterful job, I might add. On a broader level, the whole "buy American" schtick has worn mighty thin. It's certainly up to the consumer, but anyone that blasts others for not buying only domestically made goods really has no idea what our economy has become. We are a nation that buys imports. Americans don't care where the stuff comes from so long as the stuff is cheap. It's time to wake up and smell the roses. Even if you want to change things back to the way they were in the "good old days", you're going to have to start looking forward rather than backward.

Another predictable article Steve...must have been a slow day.
But as you did ask, I will answer you.
I own (3) cars, a 1999, 2001...Both GM, and am fixing up a 1963 Chevy that was made right here in Janesville.....
But you gotta be kidding me on not thinking you would be challenged on the rest of your stuff...and good for you on your Carhartt stuff, as well as shoes and "drawers", seriously, although I would be curious to see what country the thread and zippers came from.....but as posted by "Badgerlvr" you are missing the point on the rest of reality.

But it is what you imply..or maybe I am misunderstanding your point then

Redder, I didn't speak ill of any business. I didn't write anything negative either. In fact I mentioned their expansion. Again, I have no issue with what you drive or what they sell. I bought my late model GM product from a Honda dealer. I drive GM and I probably always will.

Cars I have owned in the modern era:

2001 Cavalier (wonderful car, wife demolished it)
1998 Cavalier (wonderful car, zero problems, sold and still around Janesville today!) I regret selling it.
1998 BMW 740i, truly the ultimate driving machine, but costly when something goes wrong, fun and cool
2003 Impala (zero problems, not even a burned out bulb)
2002 3/4 ton Suburban (some problems but really a tank, I would choose it over a HumV any day.) But it gets 8-9 MPG in town with the 8.1 liter V8
2007 Mazda (I hate it, runs on premium gas and eats tires, my wife had to have it)

I have had great performance and longevity from GM and I never understood why people talk bad about them. All cars need to be maintained and I believe most of the time problems emerge from poor maintenance. I guess I support GM because I feel as though I am supporting American products that have given me quality. That being said I think the Mazda was built in the US, not sure though.

Steve....I dont think peoples "undies are in a bunch" however I think your irresponsible journalism by slandering local business that does do good for the local economy and does sponsor local charity and does do volunteer work etc. is simply put childish. I think when you represent the Gazette, you need to be a little careful of what you do. I also think that your backward thinking is the problem in Janesville. I also think that prolonging this type of rhetoric keeps this city in the proverbial toilet. So before you start your negative comments because people dont like what you write, maybe, just maybe you should put some original thought and not promote negative attitudes. Its a dead horse, old world thinking and small minded. Choice is what we as Americans want, we dont need the media giveing us a hard time over makeing our choices. So if its my critique of your comments its more your post after the fact, not your article your entitled to your opinion, as I am mine and others are theirs but last I checked alot of your opinion advertises with your paper. This would be paying your salary...so dont cut of your nose to spite your face

The mention about me not allowing a Kia in my driveway was tongue-in-cheek and that's why I wrote levity in parenthesis. I do know people who won't allow a Kia or Toyota on their property and I respect their wishes. Drive what you wish. I personally drive GM. If your undies are in a bunch over this blog I guess I don't know what to say other than don't read.

Next up, why I won't buy South African beer. ;-)

GM made Janesville what it WAS. Yes, I said
was--Janesville is now a second rate city. Everything has changed such as chrging for trash collection, water bills have sky-rocketed, wheel tax, etc. etc. Cry me a river--Janesville will continue to thrive without GM. I make it a point NOT TO SHOP LOCAL. All you do-gooders put your money in necessities such as skate parks, ice arena, bike trails and a hurried up signing of the teachers contracts.Did any of you receive a geade school education?? Citizens of Janesville, we MUST change these elected officials.

Well put redder. Bravo!

I had Fords and my wife had Buicks when we started driving. We both got to know a local repair shop in college quite well because of those cars, and both had about 120,000 miles on their odometer. We then bought a used Honda and a used Toyota, drove them to 160,000 miles without anything but routine maintenance, and sold them for $3000 each. So, when the time came to buy new, we headed to Hesser Toyota and then to Tim Thompson at Honda to get two quality, reliable vehicles. Both of our cars are 3+ years old and have had zero problems. I guess we're just of a younger generation (and not Janesville natives) that do a lot of research and want the best bang for our buck.

I have a 2001 Ford Focus we bought new-If it gives out before me I will buy whatever is comfortable and affordable.

Olderandornerier: The nursing facility called. It's time you returned home.

I truthfully do not know about Steve, he might be just a tad bit out of reality. I dont write for the Gazette because they never asked. I find it a bit backward what this city is doing all around, but thats just my take on things. I suppose my view of things might set some people back in thier proverbial seats a bit. Janesville needs to move forward, and quit with all of this political rhetoric, and look at what is truely good for this city and its people. The attitude of Mr. Knox is one we need to get past if this city is ever going to survive. The UAW mentality, should be gone, as is the UAW. We as the people should be just that. Look at Beloit for example...I was in Beloit last week and I have to tell you, I was impressed. The river front is beautiful, the city is clean, look at Janesville, its going to pot. Nothing is kept up and quite honestly its a bit embarrasing. Yet, we argue about skate parks and Ice rinks and bike paths and the like sidewalks comes to mind. No new business, study after study that goes nowhere, hell we cannt even get a good fair grounds and we own the land already. Its simple these backward minded attitudes that hold this city up. Soon it will be a real mess. We need people to buy whatever it is they want to buy...but please buy something it supports all of us. Yet our city came around and slaughtered the business community with a reassesment, that now has squashed anyones ideas of hireing more people. We need to attract business and start moveing again. We need new industry, new jobs more infa-structure, clean this place up and make it again "for the people" in our community. We need more smiles and less frowns...more energy..thats it really. We need to be progressive, not recessive and its an attitude change we need. Steve sorry, but get out of the woods buddy and start being part of the solution...NOT...the problem.

Pressure from the imports improved American products. There was a time when an American car was a mechanically screwed-up, rusted-out piece of crap at 50,000 miles. Now, a car with 50,000 miles is just broken in.

Genuine free enterprise involves a truly free market and what ever the market will bear.

For all out there who would like to support American companies
http://www.madeinusa.org/nav.cgi?data/ho...

God Bless America with its' freedoms(including the free enterprise system-which is self adjusting, i.e.Kia on the rise and GM...well...)!! P.S. I drove GM products for 32 years. Then, after a series of varied disappointments with GM products I bought a Toyota----best experience ever--and I haven't looked back!!

Everyone involved with selling a foreign car is involved in selling a Chevy or Ford, 6 here half a dozen there.

Compared to so many on these boards I need to change my screen name to olderandhappier. I can hardly read the hatefests on the political and economic stories anymore.

If you recall Japan attacked us and thousands of Americans died to kick their behinds back accross the Pacific. Why should I want their cars regardless of where they are assembled.

My tricked-out Yugo in my driveway is my pride and joy.

@Redder,
Why is this hack Knox allowed to write a column while (as far as I know) you don't have one. The view that not allowing a "foreign" car (the ones sold here are nearly all built here)in your driveway somehow pays homage to some great tradition of American auto makers is astoundingly narrow minded. News flash, Steve. We sell stuff to them, and they sell stuff to us. That's kind of how it works now. Feel free to catch up any time.
Is this column supposed to be satirical and I'm just missing the point?

@Redder, that is one of the most well thought out points that I've read on these forums. Thank you for restoring my faith in the fact that some people recognize what goes on when they get past the Janesville city limits.

older you certainly dont seem very merry

Well...this is certainly interesting story...it amazes me that people still think this way. A good product is a good product...who cares what brand is stamped on it. If you like it buy it, because the truth is nobody really builds a bad car anymore. The fact that Kias are built in Georgia( state of the art facility that opened in 2010) or that a GM is built in mexico or canada is really a moot point. your cell phone is probably not made in the states either, nor is the computor your reading this on, or the jeans on your butt. The world has become a very global place. The truth is, if other countries quit buying the products that we sell this economy we are in would be alot worse. The fact that Harms employees might be your neighbors, or a Boucher employee or a Rock county Honda person and they dont work any less than you do. They have kids in school and pay taxes too. Plus they might be buying some of those american products that you enjoy as well. I know many GMrS who not only work for Kia and are local folks, but also who drive these products. They also enjoy their flat screen TVs and their Ipods and their cell phones etc. and they dont work any less than you, and they need your support too. So allow it, dont allow it, its ultimately your choice but your a pretty shallow person if you think that your not supporting Americans just because the company HQ is in Japan, Korea or whatever. Last I checked many American companies are makeing alot of money selling products overseas too.

Chevy, Chevy, Chevy, Oldsmobile.
Kansas, Oshawa, Oklahoma, Lansing.
80,000, 149,000, 154,000, 125,000 miles.

The Oshawa is the first non US assembled car or truck I have owned.

"I bet you don't have an American TV". What a stupid comment, who can. Vizio is assembled in USA, that is about as close as it gets. I did have American TV's when they were still made here.

Screw South Korea, what have they done for us.

Why go to war if we do not plant the flag and claim the land?

GM started failing when it concentrated on front wheel drive cars and lost its styling. The Camaro is now an Australian platform car..for GM enthuseists GM really has nothing to offer...except the vette... overpriced and underengineered.
-
People wonder why there are no jobs around here and then drive a foreign car need their head examined. I have no prob with any car.. I just picked up my 7th car recently and its got a mitsubishi engine in it...and im a die hard GM guy.,,.,.well kind of,

Is that a Kia in your driveway?
Or are you just glad to see me?

I don't understand why GM doesn't drop two more product brands...I mean if you look at their vehicles, they are the same with three different names. Buick Enclave, Chevy Traverse, GMC Acadia. Lucerne and Impala. If they are going to have three brands, make them look different from each other.

No Steve, my Kia is not in my driveway...it's in the garage.
It's going on seven years old with over 100 thousand miles, and other than the recommended routine maintenance, nothing has failed!
I have owned more than twenty GM vehicles over the years, but by 2005, I gave up on GM because of the constant repairs...big expensive ones as soon as the warranty expired.
GM's poor warranty and failure to address engineering mistakes year after year "drove" me away.
It was not the plant workers, it was the bean counters that made that happen.

Now you got me started. Since the Korean war we still have approx 30,000 troops there, i use to beg Feingold to pull them out. Why are we still there protecting them so they can build cars (I know some are built here now) and put our people out of work. South korea should be able to defend themselves now. Does anyone else feel like this?

Badger, I'm not talking about clothes. Since you asked, my coat is a union made Carhartt, my work shoes were made in Merrill, WI and my undies were made on the east coast.

Aside from that most of my clothes are made off shore because I don't have a choice. I do with my car.

I prefer to buy quality vehicles that I like no matter what the brand. GM has used foreign cars and rebadged them, like the Pontiac Vibe, Geo Metro off the top of my head. If GM uses them whats the problem. Honda and Toyota have been building much more reliable cars than the overpriced American built cars for years in my opinion

I consider it a global market. If the foreign car has the package I need, that's my purchase.

Look in your closet Steve and check the labels on your shirts. I'll bet most of your shirts are made somewhere other than the U.S. How about your television? Is it made in the U.S.? I doubt it. Do you own a camera? Bet it's not American made. To chastise or criticize anyone about the car they drive, one must look inside their own home to see how "Americanized" they themselves are. Even many "foreign" cars are built here in the U.S. Does that help the American economy? Some would say "no" but then again, it does employ American workers. I try to buy American whenever possible but that's becoming increasingly more difficult each year.

Do you prefer the mother ship to take govt handouts when management fails?? And then put $500 million into a plant in Mexico, while plants are shuttered here??

http://www.examiner.com/republican-in-ho...

Honda to import u.s. made cars to Korea.

http://wot.motortrend.com/honda-consider...

85% of all Honda's sold in America are built in America. Industry wide its 80% for the 'foreign' vehicles.

Why is it that it's ok to buy a Buick or Chevy built in Canada but it's not ok to buy a Honda built in America??

A)The line has nothing to do with where the car is built, it has to do with who builds the car. Canada has an autoworkers union and Honda does not.

Manufacturing, shipping, service, sales, parts just to name a few of the JOBS provided by these 'foreign' companies.

Seriously, I buy GM out of respect
for the men and women who dedicated their lives
to building American vehicles for Americans.
I want my neighbors, family, and friends
to know that I support the American dream.

SATURN?
We don't need no cars from outer space!