Wisconsinheat

Post was in response to Third_eye's suggestion that it was all about the "fued". I understand there was more involved then just the hockey team. Simply wanted to make the point that this may have not have been as big an issue if there had not been history.

gunnar; you seem to be making this all about the hockey team.

Apparently you missed the part about other athletes / sports / schools being involved.

Sounds like you have a personal interest in the hockey program?

Is this conjecture on your part or do you know for a fact that "someone must have known this was against the rules but did not come clean"?

Third-eye

Hint the hockey team is on two years probation from the WIAA for past practices, kind of puts them in the spot light

Hint the hockey coach's cavalier attitude towards WIAA rules, this is not the first time going back to before his Janesville days

Hint the AD and administrations constant pleading of ignorance of rules and lack of follow up or taking care of the problems in house

Hint the "kid was suspended" so someone must have known this was against the rules but did not come clean

I'm trying to rectify the rules versus the reality. My speculation is that the business thought in featuring their jackets that they should have a real letter winner. Somebody knows somebody and the ad goes forward.
A business gives lots of discounts. When dealing with kids there are discounts for getting an A, being on the honor roll etc. These discounts are common marketing gestures.
So how often does this scenario happen. I would venture more than one thinks.
Then the question is; why these guys?
(hint) I would look to the fued between the hockey coach and a parent that dislikes him.

Now that more information has been made available I see that my comment regarding the athletic director's knowledge of the events was incorrect and off base. It just seemed like something that they would have had to know about but I shouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that they did. I apologize to anyone who may have taken exception to my comment and will make a point of making sure my ducks are in a row next time.

Ray53511, they were wearing their letter jackets, not uniforms, by my understanding. What if they lettered in academics(you can)?

If you are going to call out a group/team have to guts to say who you are talking about!!

Maybe the WIAA should look a little closer at one of the teams in Janesville that seems to violate recruiting rules, quarters played and having a player on their team without a Wisconsin address. This player can no longer compete in wisconsin so why was the team not penalized and conference awards and titles removed? Or is it who you are or who you know that matter?

I wonder if the WIAA has noticed how Janesville has handled Athletic Code rules in the past. Maybe they are protecting the student-athlete from having to go out for Cross Country.

Seems it wasn't all that long ago there was the shoe discount that was given to the UW athletes, and in turn they were reprimanded for their actions. You would think the high school athletes would have questioned this at their level.

were they in uniform?or acting as part of the team in the billboard?if not they the WIAA is out of line. wouldn't that mean any student athlete working a part-time job would be in violation of WIAA RULES.

Good Lord, the economy is melting down and we are stuck in an intractable war halfway around the world. If anyone thinks that kids appearing on a billboard and getting a discount offered to them is even remotely important in the scheme of things, well God bless their pointed little heads.

IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO "WHO YOU KNOW AND WHO YOU ARE RELATED TO". I GUESS THESE KIDS DIDN'T HAVE THE RIGHT LAST NAME IN THE COMMUNITY.

As a parent we have attended code meetings for 4 years with our son and it is our responsibility and his to follow the rules. We sign a paper stating that! I find it amazing how many parents and their athletes don't show up for the required meetings and yet their kids end up playing anyway. I also know a parent who went to one, talked through the whole thing and doesn't have a clue about the requirements and rules and has been told several times she can't let her daughter do this or that and she says why? It is in the code book we say and she says oh, it is? She also doesn't feel the need to attend anymore because she already went once. I think the schools need to be more responsible about making sure these meetings are attended and if not the child cannot play. Why risk punishing all the athletes on a team for what a few might do?

The WIAA rules on the website do not list specific penalties for specific violations. It is very discretionary.

I can tell you that the hockey player involved in this did not realize he was doing anything wrong. Shame on him and his parent's for not understanding the rules...that's what the code meetings are for.
HOWEVER; as soon as the school officials and coach learned of the situation, they immediately suspended that player from the team and turned all info directly over to the WIAA. The player was punished. It seems ludicrous to punish the whole team and make them forfeit games. I also understand that the player involved is primarily a JV player and has played a VERY limited amount of time(2 minutes?) in Varsity games.
It would be complete overkill to make the Varsity team forfeit any number of games.

Even when offending parties accept responsibility for their actions - whether intentional or not - quite often the penalty does not fit the "crime."

I think that asking businesses to be knowledgable about WIAA, NCAA rules and codes is pretty far-fetched. That's the responsibility of the athletes, coaches, and district administration.

I knew that I would get a reaction if I posted the way that I did, just wanted to get the discussion going. I was also a student athlete in highschool and then recruited and played college athletics. I know that my coaches always looked out for me and in a situation like this I would have checked with them before doing any type of billboard or accepting any type of discount. I do believe that the coaches and athletic directors should face the penalties. I just don't think that the teams should be penalized by the actions of a few, and I do think that whoever funded the advertisement and offered the discounts should at least be held somewhat liable for their actions.

Ignorance is no defense. As assinine and confusing as the NCAA and WIAA regulations may be, they ARE the rules. People must be held accountable and responsible for their actions.

So do some posters think that it is up to each individual athlete to determine which WIAA rules to follow and which to treat as guidelines? I'm just curious about what you think is a good way to arbitrarily determine this, especially when there are children involved. Which violations are severe enough that they deserve "by the book" penalties? I feel that this is a clear code in the handbook--it should be followed.

I guess I just don't think the consequences should be determined by whether or not the violators intended to violate WIAA rules. I'm guessing the athletes weren't looking for a way to violate any rules/guidelines, but I don't think that's a reason that they shouldn't be given consequences. When I was playing sports in high school, I attended the code meetings and understood what was in the handbook so that I didn't violate any codes. That was part of being on the team and not being penalized by my off-court/field actions.

JCK - I think this is much more innocent than you are suggesting. I don't think school officials knew - I believe that the business simply asked customers to help them with the billboard. And I believe the parties involved - the business and the athletes - did not know their actions were violations of any code. Doesn't make it right, but an unintentional action versus an intentional violation of rules may be an extenuating circumstance.

"There's no way that the players were recruited for the billboard without the involvement of, at least, the athletic director."

Don't jump to conclusions. Or is this a KNOWN FACT?

Zach, exactly how do you think the WIAA would be able to punish the company that offered the discount? The WIAA has no governing authority over any businesses. They only have authority over the schools because the schools are members of their organization and as such agree to abide by their rules. No private businesses are members and aren't likewise obligated and they haven't broken any laws.

There's no way that the players were recruited for the billboard without the involvement of, at least, the athletic director. They're suppose to know the rules and if they don't or are unclear what a rule means they can contact the WIAA and they will tell him. Failing to fully determine what was involved in the project falls on their shoulders imo.

Hey zach, that has got to be the most ignorant statements I've read in a while. Those rules have been in place since I was in HS athletics (Yes, that long ago). If anyone should get slapped upside the head it should be the coach. Unless of course this was done without his knowledge.

Rules aren't always rules. Sometimes they are guidelines - apologies to the writers of Pirates of Caribbean. WIAA uses discretion in following its published rules if situations suggest better options. Impose penalties, but base those penalties on the situation.

Yeah, it is a dumb rule. But it is a rule. A while back I helped coach at a D-III university. And I couldn't even give one of my players a dollar so that they could get a soda due to college rules. We may feel that the rules are wrong/bad, but we need to follow them to the T until they are changed.

This is how College athletics has gotten into the mess it has. People brush off violations because they "weren't that bad." Sorry. Violation is violation.

This has got to be one of the dumbest things I have heard in a long time. Like those kids even thought about the athletic code when they were asked to be on a billboard. Don't punish the kids punish whoever offered the discount.