http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080801/pl_n...

All I am saying is there needs to be a major change, a big shift in the the way things have been going. Keep walking down the road we are being asked to follow, and money will not have any value anymore, as the have-nots, and average people just try to survive. Change can happen, but as I see it, not very likely. Our nation has pretty much everything it needs to fix itself, before we try and fix the world, but do we do that... No we try and band-aid the world, while we continue to bleed. Thank you for the replys gazettefan, Sorry if I vent too much.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080801/ap_o...

With freedom comes responsibility; those two things are inseparable. Freedom doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. Responsibility is many of the things you mention.

For example: In a bad economy you must make the best of it using your freedom to improve your situation. Which also means you can't commit crimes and blame it on the ecomomy.

gazettefan.. if your comment was directed to my statement then you missed my point. I am not making excuses to what a person knows to be right or wrong, as I said Life is full of choices. What I was getting at is how the the economy and value system is so out of control because of greed and envy, and where all the wealth is and goes. Even essential things such as food, clothing and shelter are becoming harder to attain for most people due to profit margins for the big companies, and low wages for most people. You tack on heating and power bills, alot of people look for meens just to survive. You mention Freedom and Responsibillity. Freedom is a word, a vauge idea. Freedom to do what... Kill, carry a gun, eat pork, play loud music.. to do anything that the self wishes to do. Freedom is not the definition of the word or how it sounds, because Freedom is regulated by common sence, and culture and government, all of which as time goes on causes what we percieve as "Our Freedom" to diminish. Responsibillity is an individual, and all encompasing idea and sence of right and wrong. Personal would be raising your childeren to be good humans, to suffer what will happen from actions you take, to do what is required to be a usefull and thriving member of society. It is also something that we should expect from our government, and society in whole. To be responsible for thier actions and to take into account the individuals that make up our society.. I will stop at that as I dont want to ramble further, as it just gets me fired up, and I think this thread has died.

Let the parade of excuses for screwed up behavior continue.

The real problem is the inability of many people to handle freedom. With freedom comes respondsibility.

Don't take respondsibilty for what you are, blame everyone else for your inability to achieve fulfillment. Society did it.

Grow up.

The biggest thing wrong with this culture is people blaming other people for their own character disorders. It's disgusting.

"If the prosecutor hadn't convinced him that they satisfied that burden, then he wouldn't have agreed to the deal."
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Apparently somone is not as familiar with the legal process as they like to think.
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There are many parallels between the legal system and a poker game....much bluffing on both sides of the table.

I guess this was the wrong place to start a debate on how our system of govenment does cause alot of the Ills that befall us now. Envy and Greed those are what dives our system and destroys it from within. The big corparations are greedy, need to keep getting richer, so they use envy to drive the common person to continue the cash flow. "Oh honey those shoes are so awsome, just like whats in style now, so what they cost $300.00" "Hey dad that car is so now, I need it" The music videos, the movies, the advertising on TV, they all SELL, SELL, SELL. All the money goes up into the hands of "Big Corparations" How much do you think they trikle down to the inner city kids who cant afford "What's Hot"? I am guessing that the big jets and homes that they buy in Paris, Aspen, Zurich, dont really come back to the good O'le USA. So now you have envy fermenting in kids, so they start comming up with plans to make it. Gangs, Crime, to achieve status, that we allowed to happen because of our own American Dream...tainted by Greed. Where is there achievment just for the purpose to achieve? Where did playing Baseball, Football, lose its game status and become something you can make millions at? Where did the values of familly and country go? I will tell you where it went. It went the way of some CEO and shareholders making sure that they got their million dollar bonus, and our Government selling
out on us all.

Wow!!!

You can go to a bar and buy a person (man/woman) drinks all night long, giving the money to the bartender. You may end up taking this person home with yourself and having consentsual sex between adults. Is that prostitution? The person that you were buying drinks for did not receive the money, the bartender did. Does that make the bartender a pimp? Assume cops come to your home the next day and arrest you because the person you took home with you was using a fake ID and is under 18, where does all that blame go? What happens if you were smoking cigarettes in the bar and someone complained? What happens if I had on "an offensive shirt"? Assume the person you took home might be looking foreign, are they legal, or Illegal? What if we had fast food burgers and got a bit fater, should we sue the company? I could go on and on but whats the point. Life is full of choices, "Do I kill this person or not" Simple ones like that. Or
"Do I walk into a bar where they smoke and serve alcohol" Also simple. What I want to know is who is it that sits in that "Big Chair" that decides what is best for me, and how I am too stupid to make any choices. I guess by giving the money to the bartender makes it a bit simpler cause that can be recorded as income, whereas if I had just given it to the person and saved some time and a hangover..that might not not be...yeah right. Well I hope this sparks some debate cause this is a no win situation people, our government is big and cumbersome, will blindly overlook the obvious, while making our guilded cages a bit
smaller.

Wow!

I would have to have a pretty high opinion of myself to assume that I know what's best for the community. I'd also have to be worried about something that isn't happening to be paranoid. I doubt if I'm the only one that can read the writing on the wall. It's not paranoia if it's actually happening. If I'm the only one who thinks that someone (or more than one) on the council set this all up than maybe I am paranoid. Should the axis of evil be allowed to eradicate something they don't like under the guise of morality even if it is legal? Where should it stop? Maybe we should crucify these two guys burn them at the stake while we're at it. Who will bring the stones so we can throw them while they're being burned at the stake? A truly fitting punishment for people who dare to partake in a legal business venture.

So with the building going to a non-profit group which is outstanding for that group. Doesn't that mean the city looses all revenue from that property? Property taxes, possible liscensings?

packerfan, maybe because of this experience those women are rethinking what they should do with their lives. It doesn't help to call them names.

RoadKing, the prosecution did what's best for the community. The property will be donated to a worthy cause. And this may be an indication that the defendent is feeling rependent about what he had done with the club.

This case was not only a benefit to the community in general but maybe some of the people close to the matter have learned some valuable lessons.

Now it's time for some the posters here to rethink their ideas about all this.

Paranoia.

Do you really think that the DA's office made the decision to let him plead out by themselves? The old boys club must have decided they spanked Jim enough to get their way even if the way they went about it was a complete miscarriage of justice. This case has gone farther than just being about lap dances or prostitution. Drop 12 felonies in exchange for not reopening the club? Shame on somebody. Who will the city fathers strong arm next using the long arm of the law? By the way, it is not possible to accurately say the "community" did or didn't want something here. You need a larger representative sample of people to say what the community does or doesn't want. That's why they have referendums.

munchkin- I didn't specify which townships. You inferred it. But it is irrelevent to the point. Thanks for trying.

justmy....., the community didn't want it there, that's why it's gone.

pondermuch - that would be incorrect. There is one strip club in the Town of Beloit, the other is in the Town of Rock.

Right, babaloo1, now the women who worked there will be doing something else.

If the prosecution didn't have the proof, it would have been a very short trial and therefore the cost the defence would have been only a few bucks.

Here's why: Since the prosecution has the burden of proof, at the very outset of the trial the defense lawyer would have said: "Your honor, we request a directed verdict of 'not guilty' because the prosecution has no evidence."

The judge would have said: "Mr. Prosecutor do you have any evidence?"

"No, your honor."

"I find the defendent not guilty. Now get out of my courtroom!"

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Also, he could have made the same wise tax/financial move without the legal problems.

I think gazettefan has it right on the money. I was upset when I first saw the headline but I think now they had enough evidence to convict. My niece got tangled up with this creep a few years back, and it has taken a long time for her to get past it all. (She was just barely 18, came from a very good family, and is a very pretty girl).I am so glad this business is shut down and can't re-open. My personal feelings is it should be bull-dozed..it would be the only way to get the Halbach stench out of the area.

The End result is about money.
By taking the plea Bargain he gets an out. The business was on the way out anyway. I’m sure a big part of the business is related to its biggest neighbor, GM. If your clientele is leaving, your business will not survive. Halbach is a smart Business man. He knows a losing enterprise when he sees it. He knew how much more a defense would cost him. This Plea will also give him the ability to take a write off on a building he would most likely get stuck with if he tried to sell it. In case none of you noticed the real-estate market is a bit tough right now. And with the Closing of its neighbor imminent, the land will take even longer to sell.
I’m sure the city didn’t want the place sitting empty for years. I’m also sure the city / Government didn’t want to spend more money on this case during a trial.
That's my two cents.

The burden of proof was on the prosecutor. If the prosecutor hadn't convinced him that they satisfied that burden, then he wouldn't have agreed to the deal.

In other words the proof was there. Why else would he accept the deal?

Agreed, nurse4you, on to other important things.

The creep with the Frosty ice cream place on West Court wasn't punished enough.

There is no connection between this story and Beloit. I wonder where the hatred comes from. By the way, there are no strip clubs in the City of Beloit. Both are in the township.

Plea bargains exist because JURIES CAN ACQUIT. It's as simple as that.
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justmythoughts: Kip Lecher is not allowed to hire anyone under 18 to work at Frosty Freeze. It is in his plea agreement. He spent four months in jail and remains on probation. He paid restitution, and will be on the sex offender registry for life.
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WCCA:
http://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetails.do;...
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WISDOC:
http://offender.doc.state.wi.us/public/s...

You do understand folks...plea bargains are a tool for the DA's office (everywhere in the country). It is simply a means to the verdict. It simply allows the prosecutor to get the process moving on, and mostly a "conviction" of sorts. We may not ever be understanding to the thought processes that go into some of the plea agreements, but it is an end. Otherwise, they may have fought this thing for a very long time and wound-up with no guilty verdicts! Especially with our more easily swayed jury bases around here. How upsetting would that be to some...

Correct me if I am wrong but is there not 2 places on Court Street that have child molestors owning?

Darn it, I forgot to buy popcorn.

Well, gfan, it doesn't really matter anymore. The dancers have stopped dancing, the music doesn't play, the doors have shut, Randy & Jim are not being prosecuted..the City can move on..
Maybe we can concentrate on the more important things in Janesville, the schools, Rock Haven, flood disaster relief/clean up, blood donation, domestic violence, gangs..need I go on??

nurse, yeah, that's it. Or maybe other people know how to get sex without paying for it. And maybe other people know how to make money without charging for sex.

Don't let the facts get in the way of some good assumptions.

Maybe its the blacked out windows that has everyone curious..they want to know what's going on but aren't that gutsy to walk in the doors themselves..

The post below was for justmythoughts.

He made a de facto admission of guilt of running a brothel not a strip club.

Talk about impact on someone's life: Why aren't you this worked up about defending something else?

Child molesters selling ice cream???
Must have missed that one, but I can assure you that such an occurrence would not change my mind about strip joints or their proprietors.
When I alluded to the limits of your philosophy, I was trying to draw a parallel to your statement that you didn’t see “where ANYONE got hurt, raped,killed,robbed or tortured by anything that went on there”. If you limit your opinions to what you see personally, then you cripple your opinions with inconclusive evidence, just as your disregard for the degenerate effects of strip joints on their patrons and employees cripples your philosophy.

The reference was to the ice cream place on West Court.

JohnDoe, there was a bunch of stuff about it in the paper.

justmythoughts, I agree with you on that creep who owns the ice cream place: he should be in prison. But there's still no reason to allow a brothel in town.

People make plea deals every day. That doesn't mean they're guilty, nor does it mean they are innocent. Everyone has their own reasons for accepting or rejecting deals.
For all of you who presume to know why he accepted this deal...unless you got it straight from him, are indeed clueless.

There are more things in heaven and earth, justmythoughts, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Right on justmythoughts.

Anyone who wants to judge the "employees" or patrons of strip club establisments should anaylze their own livlihood. Do you drink? Do you swear? Do you JUDGE OTHERS? You are no saints either my friends.

wow 500K spent on this investigation... would'nt that have paid for the new bike tunnel? LOL

The paranoia and polymorphic perversity parade persists.

who did he pay off?? must have someone in his pocket..

I say let prostitutes prositute and "johns" do what they want to do. As long as it doesn't affect people outside of the building. It's their life, their morals, and possibly their afterlife they have to worry about. Personally, I have been there once many years ago. Strip clubs aren't for me but I am not one to judge those who go there or provide said services. That is providing that innocent people don't have to involuntarily witness the "acts."

A man walked up to his wife while she was cooking dinner and said "hey tubby, don't wait until the smoke detector beeps". She twirled around and hit him upside the head with a frying pan. When he awoke, he rubbed the lump on his head while getting up off the floor and muttered "wow, some people get a little defensive when you speak the truth ".

mymaro, I didn't understand the site staff comment. I just saw the deleted one.

I'm not site staff.

I reject this claim that a brothel should exist here just because Janesville isn't otherwise crime free. The claim makes no sense.

$500,000 (if that is the true figure) is a small price to pay to get rid of a brothel in town. Imagine what the long-term cost to Janesville would be if it wasn't shut down.

Think about the harm to Janesville if a brother were allowed to exist.

There is a claim here that he was innocent but lacked the character to fight the charges. This is not a compliment, it is an insult.

Here's a compliment for him: He was smart enought to know that if he fought the charges, he would have been convicted.

NO CHARGES? CITY OFFICALS,AND THE D A MUST BE INVOLVED IN THE RING TOO.

"Pimpin' ain't easy" -- B. D. Kane

nurse4u - they took the plea because they were innocent... You must be related to Judy Robison. I hope that they make the donation to useful non profit not reverend jim's house of love and free loose women...

I think the money was well spent-we got rid of a slimey business and hopefully there won't be any more. Yes, it seems like if you have enough money, you can always get off. Janesville has enough to worry about these days with all the past flooding and lost jobs.

Allowing the brothel to continue would have caused the bad slippery slope you're talking about.

There was a case, that's why he took the offer.

The term "innocent until proven guilty" does not appear in the Constitution. The term "fair trial" does. He took the offer because he knew a fair trial would have convicted him.

Their was never a case, the city has prevailed though. Seems to be money and time well spent.

About 2 weeks ago, the gazette published an article online with this headline "Club closes its doors". Many who commented on that story came to the Halbach's defense and wrote that no one has the right to judge them guilty before their trial. Now that they have the plea bargain they obviously were trying to get when they gave up their license and closed the place, some may claim that they were still innocent and that they only gave up to save money, and they'll have a point. Unfortunately, the D.A. here is more interested in expediency than justice. Some serious laws were alleged to have been broken. The police spent a lot of time and money gathering evidence. Now, no jury will hear that evidence, no verdict will be arrived at, no one will know for certain that any criminal activity took place at all and justice will not be served.
Between throwing out evidence to punish investigators who gathered it illegally, “speedy” trials that can happen years after the fact and plea bargaining with defendants who can afford crafty lawyers creating a multi-tiered justice system, the symbol of a blindfolded Lady Justice with a scale in her hand should be changed to one with 2 faces, no blindfold, and a weight on one side of the scale with a stack of money on the other.

Oh, in case this has gotten by the paranoids by proxy: Accepting the offer was a de facto admission of guilt.

To the paranoids by proxy here: They had the goods on him, he knew it, contrary to how unfair you claim the authorities are they did him a favor, he knew it, that's why he accepted the offer, even if he would have fought it he would have lost, he knew it, and the county would have incurred a lot of expenses if it went to trial, the cost of the investigation was his fault, the club is now close, it wasn't a bad thing to want to close the club, stopping prostitution was the point, read the constituion if you want to talk like you know what's in it.

Congratulations Randy & Jim. I knew you guys were innocent. Whoo hoo!

in the game of chess we call this checkmate
im not surprised at the outcome of all this their is an old saying "you cant fight city hall" well yes you can fight but without a lot of money you will lose he got careless probably thought he was untouchable well sorry Jim you lost
Better luck next time

B

yes fldpln, thats what the city does.

Call the police department and see if you can even get an answer to this- How much taxpayer money was used to shut down the business?

(Close to $500,000 is the answer)

It sounds to me like they (the authorities) knew all along that these prostitution charges would never stick and their main goal was to get this place shut down. Trumped up charges against someone who was running a business in a location where such business was allowed seems a little fishy to me. Not that I'm trying to defend Halbach, but there certainly was a lot of manpower, time, and money spent on getting this one guy to close up shop.

All they are going to do in move that "crime infested joint" to another location. How does this man seem to always come out smelling like a rose?

Explain to me what is unconstitutional about this?

I think its a great deal. He gave up everthing which is what I wanted to see all along. Give the building a non-profit keeps it becoming another crime infested joint.

Unbelievable. All this time, money and effort just to make sure the place was shut down.
What's to keep someone else from opening another just like it somewhere else in town?
=
So, Mr DA, are lap dances prostitution or aren't they?

What a bunch of crap. How unconstitutional is that.