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One time ruler of China.

Where did my post say your friends where confined to Europeans? Simply said your "European buddies", and nothing about the scope of other friends you may or may not have, and their nationality. So who is the one being Presumptuous?
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What I do for a living is irrelevant, but thanks for your touching concern. :-P

kio, your careless presumptions betray you again. My international friends and associates are hardly confined to Europeans - probably at least as many if not more Asians, Africans, Middle Easterners, South Americans and Aussies, and, incidentally, many more North Americans. It's just that on the whole they are history-seasoned, socially conscious and well organized, intellectually savvy, culturally rich, and politically civilized. And not irreversibly mesmerized by xenophobic uni-dimensional "thought."

Good luck in your investments. But what's your day job, with all this idle time for blabber? (Not that it's any of my business.) Obviously plumbing the market in your indomitable way is not too time-consuming.

Barr won't win, I all ready posted that. McCain will be your winner, and when he is I will cash in very nice, as I locked in on him at +163 on the future exchanges. All your European friends are betting Obama heavy on the world exchanges. Not seeming to see the huge problems he has now. That's fine; I'll take their $$$.

Hey kio, congrats on getting something (Bush's congress) right. The next question is where were Ryan's votes during that six yrs, if not wholly invested in abetting the very patterns you decry. Good luck with your Bop Barr, I hope he does very well; true consdrvatism is something we need, and his concern about personal liberties in the heady years of Bush-Cheney-Ashcroft-Gonzalez is admirable. But he has this slight problem with hypocrisy: his stance anti women's right to choose despite his wife's secret abortion, his Defense of Marriage Act in light of his documented philandering, and now his 3rd marriage. His sanctimonious leadership for Clinton impeachment. And his efficacy? Well, losing his last primary race by 2 to 1. . . . Is he, would you say, one of your vaunted pseudo-majority "us"?

Hey kio, congrats on getting something (Bush's congress) right. The next question is where were Ryan's votes during that six yrs, if not wholly invested in abetting the very patterns you decry. Good luck with your Bop Barr, I hope he does very well; true consdrvatism is something we need, and his concern about personal liberties in the heady years of Bush-Cheney-Ashcroft-Gonzalez is admirable. But he has this slight problem with hypocrisy: his stance anti women's right to choose despite his wife's secret abortion, his Defense of Marriage Act in light of his documented philandering, and now his 3rd marriage. His sanctimonious leadership for Clinton impeachment. And his efficacy? Well, losing his last primary race by 2 to 1. . . . Is he, would you say, one of your vaunted "us"?

NVgrf:
I have yet to decide, but I'm liking Bob Barr a lot. My man Ron Paul, may run as a 3rd party candidate too, no one really knows his intentions as of yet. I realize my vote won't make much of a difference, but it's a principal vote. I simply can't stand either of the two big government politicians that this race will feature. I really think this country needs a viable 3rd party. By parties have have serious flaws today, IMO. I normally vote Republican, and really support Paul Ryan, and the true limited government conservatives. The Republican congress over all; however, has failed miserably the 6 years in power under Bush. Spending went through the roof, and the "leader" (Denny Hastrit) was one of the biggest pork spenders of them ALL, in the endless spending wastes/give aways that is typical with big government do gooders.

kio.........Out of curiosity, who do you support in the race for the White House? I read lots of criticisms, but not much in the way of support for anyone.

mabuse:
I could provide all the facts in the world and it's not going to change what an elitist like you thinks. If you think that's name calling, all I will say is; let the reader decide! I have provided plenty of facts just in this thread alone. One that was not digressing from the topic was Paul Ryan's plan for the future, which I posted for all to see.

It's rather amusing you think I'm a flag waiving Bush Republican. I guess when your part of the hateful far left, that's all your blind vision sees. I actually have many problems with the Bush administration. The war in Iraq, and his insane federal spending (which have drove up the debt, and sunk the US dollar, as you pointed out) are my biggest.

You may think your going to have this great victory in November, but your candidate; Obama has MANY flaws from all the internal polling data I see. All my political analytical skills would say this is McCain's to loose. And I am right much more often then I am wrong.

Oh, dear kio, I have to spend so much time on you.

You use all the favorite epithets,like "rant," "liberal," "elitist," and "spin," without a single response to the facts. Take a little time from your interminable platitudinous slavering, and go check them out.

And, by the way, enjoy your high flying while there's still time: "us dumb fools here in the US" will oust your favored false-faced legions in uncountable droves come November. And your heroes like Cheney and Rove will be nicely clothed and safely housed where they truly belong, in day-glo orange pajama-suits in one of our multitudinous penitentiaries.

But thanks for the compliments: a worthy opponent often sharpens us, if we are still remotely educable. Not saying you are worthy, but at least you extend an effort, fool the more gullible rubes, and partially satisfy, I suppose, the masochistic need lurking beneath the surface in many of us.

your rant about oil is also comical. One thing I AM an expert on is commodities; and what you wrote is some of the best spin that I have ever heard in my life!

For all your superior intellect; maybe you should have paid attention in ECON 101 class! Then you'd know the real reasons behind how free markets work, and why prices are what they are today.

Good rant and political spin though. One of the better ones I've heard in a while from one of you progressives, who think you know so much.

mabuse:
I just skimmed through your rant, because it seemed rather ambiguous; like most all your diatribes do.

It's quite clear though, that you and all your liberal elitist buddies should just move over to Europe. You talk of all these great things over there; and of how much better they are then us dumb fools here in the US. No one will stop you from going over there to live. Enjoy your superior education, free public everything; and general well being. Get away from the evil capitalist tyranny of the US of A, and away from all us less then educated idiots who live here.

The word limit cut me off, and there is so much more to respond to, even if all this seems like a 3-way conversation - nobody really watching, and hardly worth the time to bother with writing real sentences. It's been a gas, but my consultancy rates for parallel work would factor out to – well, I’ll let you, or Gazfan guess – and that is money wasted on the all-knowing ineducable. But, incidentally, one more obvious reminder about these dreaded "socialist" countries: Frankfurt has the DAX, Zurich the SMI and many others, Paris the CAC, Amsterdam the AEX, etc, and, if you move father east, there is the NIKKEI, Hang Seng, etc. All somehow surviving in your beloved “socialist” countries, mein Herr. And, imagine, excellent health care, transportation, education, cultural support, and social services, etc, etc to boot.

Well, kio, you seem terrified of the idea of taxes, kinda like fear in foxholes in WW I. On my last trip to high-tax Switz a few months ago, an 8-day Swiss rail pass gave free transport on all trains (thousands of them), boats (lots of lakes) and even most funiculars (They have a few mts); it also included free passes to almost all historic sites and museums, about $200 worth in my case. Was able to visit Basel, Berne, Lausanne, Geneva, Chillon, Montreux, Vevey, Lucerne, the Jura, etc, most replete with museums. Total cost: $386. Phone charges to US were a few pennies a minute, so low hotels did not even bother to charge. You see an amiable, relaxed, courteous people. The restaurants (around the usual MacDonlds - which I like) were excellent, and, with care, eminently affordable. The wines were excellent, both domestic and imported, the borders were virtually hassle free, crime and incarceration rates extremely low, the airports tributes to design, engineering, comfort, and cleanliness. Ditto Norway a few months before, and Belgium a few before that. International races mixed amicably. Your invitation to move there is most tempting, except desire to live there is so high and the dollar is so pitifully low from your hero, suck-the-rich George, that housing in dollar terms is virtually unaffordable for most of us. Anyhow, those countries must not be subject to your wisdom, kio, all are tops on the international Happiness index to which I have referred.

From the kick-in of George’s budgets (late ’01 - early ’02) the Euro has risen about 80% against the dollar; I could get Euros for $.87-.93 in Amsterdam in Jan-Feb; A dollar cost $1.16 Euros; now it’s $.64 – Ever hear the expressions “Not worth a farthing”? Or “Not worth a sou”? Well now it’s “Not worth a greenback,” courtesy of George. Any one betting against the dollar at the beginning of his admin’s budgets, and dumping within only a yr or two, would be worth millions, imagine, just like us. Similarly your hobby horse, crude: it was at under $15 per barrel before the Repubs started their impeachment games, and only about $26 when your boy’s budget took over. Now it’s 5 times that, with historic profits for his oil friends, our national economy and life quality in the pits, and his approval ratings down with (some say below) Nixon’s at resignation time.

Clinton won the election in 92; took office in January of 93. After he increased taxes, and Hillary care was proposed, his approval went in the tank; and Newt and company were swept into power in congress in the Nov 1994 elections. Once they took power; Clinton moved way to the center on issues; and often sided with many of the conservatives in congress, and got welfare reform and NAFTA passed (both GREAT accomplishments). Don't listen to any of the union nonsense, NAFTA was an GREAT thing, and Clinton should be commended for stepping up to the bully pulpit to get it passed; Along with welfare reform!

Do not kid yourself though, Clinton governed as a moderate after 94. He is nothing like the socialist Obama; who if elected you will see an economic disaster not seen since Carter.

Here is the answer to my question regarding the rates of taxes, since none of you Socialists want to address it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_o...
The VAT tax you also see is "value added tax" which is essentially a national sales tax.

So not only do you have a near 50% income tax in these great socialist paradises, you also have a large national sales tax on good you consume. Oh, and gasoline in most of these countries (when converted to gallons) goes between $8.00-12.00 in most these countries. That is because of the massive TAX applied by the great Socialist utopian government! Not to worry though, you are "saving" the planet in the global wealth redistribution scam (aka global warming) that the government has sold you.

So go ahead, MOVE ON OVER there if you think they are such great places,and think the US is this horrible place. It's rather funny though, for how horrible the US is, we seem to have all these people trying to get in here. Wonder why that is?

You left out: "One Time Ruler of China".

gazfan - no contest: you get the cutsie award - haint' got much to do with thinkin' tho.

It must be drinky-time in Timbuktu.

Kio - sorry for my delay, and leaving your drooling jaw out hanging, but have been out of country and various embassy, medical conference, etc events have intervened. And it would take a major book to address even half of your well baked self-assured fallacies, but I’ll only take time for a few.

First of all, re your 1992-4 allegation, Clinton wasn't even in office till '93, and his budget only passed in August, so you can pretty much wipe off those contentions about '92 ff. He had inherited the biggest budget deficit in history and moved us into prolonged surplus and prosperity only reversed when Bush got into the White House.

Secondly, our whole issue here is not about being millionaires; my wife was an immigrant and then millionaire many times over. I am native born and also a self-made millionaire. She plays the markets, both national and international, I don’t. That self-interested canard as significant should be dispelled immediately. The issue is how to establish policy that best serves our whole nation and its peoples, the needs of the many; and that best contributes to social harmony and happiness for us all, not only the privileged few. If you look at the most recent international study out of England, involving 80,000 individuals and 178 countries, almost all of the top dozen are those you love to hate as evil, high-tax, socialist: Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Austria, Ireland, Finland, etc, plus that evil socialist demon to the north, Canada. Their given reasons are reliable education, health care, proper transportation, etc, mainstays of progressive politicians. The US, for all its wealth and billionaires and nightly market focus, is only 23rd and has the highest incarceration rate and sentences of any “civilized” country; health parameters, intelligence tests, knowledge of geography, life expectancy rates - the list goes on - lag behind many other nations.

Finally, re sassy’s comments to you on bloc voting; lock-step bloc voting has been the Repub’s unwavering mode ever since Gingrich, Delay, then Rove, Cheney, and the rest of the wrecking crew. Dems are far less monolithic historically. Just check it out, but I expect studying history in an informed, unbiased manner is well beyond a few of us. After all, we have Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Savage, Hannity, Tucker Carlson, George Will, Horowitz, Bill O, all of R Mellon Scaife’s decades of servants, and so many others in the “liberal” media – so many miscreants, so little time - to do that for us.

sassy:
Most Washington politics are voted strictly by party line. Of course you will always have a few from the party that will stray away; but look at any voting roll call on any major bill, and you'll see just how partisan the votes really are along party lines.

kiowamohican, you said: "...but if the policies of Obama are enacted (which they all would be with the huge majority the Democrats will have in congress)"

Would I be correct if I were to say you believe that every Democrat votes for Democrat policy regardless of how it will affect their constituency, merely because they are suggested by Democrats? If that is what you truly believe, I take great offense to that.

I have a lot of issues with politicians and the way they play "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours", but I wholeheartedly believe that everyone in America is ready for changes. Not change, just because we are bored, but to ACTUALLY make some IMPROVEMENTS in our country.

Democrats, whether you choose to agree or disagree, do not ALL have the same ideas in what those changes might look like. We don't share one brain, either...again, you may not agree, but it's been proven. hehe

Also Mabuse:
You read much of what I say incorrect. For starters, I never said you had half a brain. I simply said that anyone with half a brain can make $$ in this country investing. It's not just your ultra rich who invest in the prosperity of our country. Anyone with a 401K, SEP, invests in US business, and their prosperity. I have friends who have come to this country with nothing, and made millions of $$'s. They are no smarter then you, or I. They simply worked very hard, and took advantage of our capitalist system.
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I also never said I was Republican, but you keep saying that I am. Political parties don't mean much to me. I vote for the candidate who is the most CONSERVATIVE in their beliefs. Sometimes, that is actually the Democrat.

Please provide the tax rates on income, on one of your beloved European socialist countries. Throw in the current price of gasoline to, if you could.

mabuse:
Under Clinton you had a strong conservative congress. The economy was no good under Clinton's 1st two years (92-94) when you had a Democratic congress and President. The failed economy (not to mention the out cry of Hillary's proposed national health care) lead to conservatives sweeping into office in 94, and taking over the majority in the house and senate. Clinton then directed many his policies toward the middle after his 1st term, which was a "triangulation" strategy by his brilliant adviser; Dick Morris, which would lead to his re-election.

As a body the congress has MUCH more power then any president does. You may wish to read the constitution about checks and balances.

I will not just predict a horrible economy with a Democratic congress, and president, I will bet HEAVILY on it. It has nothing to do with my own political beliefs, I simply analyze and play accordingly.

By the way, kio, no one has called for "a government program for everything." "Everything": That's your typical Repub hair-raising exaggeration to frighten the gullible.

Incidentally the European economy and currency is far outpacing the US since your Scaglia-Rehnquist-Clarence Thomas-abetted boy took over - dramatically so. It was nconceivable how much they would supercede us before the little bully's know-it-all "programs" kicked in.

And if McCain should "loose" (sic) the election it well might be because he couldn't "tighten" up his pronouncements, flip-flopping all over the place to mitigate his party's slobbering neanderthals, who, even he knows, have so seriously damaged our nation.

A belated Happy Memorial Day, everyone. It's a good day: my dad served (and lost several good buddies in D-Day, etc); all my uncles served, one killed, one disabled in concentration camp, two others wounded; my brother wounded (three times) in Viet Nam and permanently disabled in Colombia; several nephews and nieces in Iraq and Afghanistan; and a son high up in the Defense Dept. It's their well deserved day.

wisconsinheat says..."soside....the key word in my post was VIABLE...third party.Not a self-funded independent ego fueled run.Independence alone, does not a third party make, let alone a VIABLE one. Sorry."
1.) I COULD ARGUE YOU "ALL NIGHT" ABOUT PEROT (4 PRESIDENT! lol!:), BUT THAT'S JUST NOT GONNA HAPPEN NOW!
:( ..2.) "self-funded independent", you claim..?!...Well, wisconsinheat, JEALOUSLY will get you NOWHERE!..(Right? ;) lol!) & 3.) "ego fueled run?"..ISN'T THAT WHAT THIS (& ALL) RACES ARE ABOUT??
Sorry to you.

Repubs always predict great economic tragedy if Dems get in, but check the record - why go back to Carter and the (long overdue) Iranian revolution (been there, talked with them - ever hear of SAVAK?), when you can simply check the most recent and more relevant Dem - We had broad spread prosperity under Clinton, despite hysterical Repub screeching and adamant opposition over his Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, passed only by Gore's tie breaking vote. Because this bill did exactly the opposite of what progligate Bush has done, myriads of impartial sources, such as the Congressional Budget Office, avow it led to the unprecedented prosperity of the rest of the decade - Till Georgie boy got in - and look at us now. No sane, impartial source can be happy with the economic, military, constitutional, international condition the US is in.

Some just don't want a government program for everything. Some like to prosper by their own means without the government being the great equalizer to dumb everyone down. If you are so in love with the European system, by all means, move over there. Give over half of all your wages to your Government, to be part of the great Social advancement to society.

sassy:
Nothing ever comes easy when playing markets, but if the policies of Obama are enacted (which they all would be with the huge majority the Democrats will have in congress) it really would be simple. You simply bet heavy AGAINST big drug and oil companies, who would be the biggest punching bags of an all Democrat run government. With time you'll have the whole Carter scenario all over again (with double digit everything...unemployment, interest rates, inflation). All of that is a disaster for the country, but is very easy to cash in on, if you position yourself right before it happens (like anything is, if you see it ahead of time, and play your cards right).

All that said, I think McCain will win in November. Which btw is a great play on Intrade, right now, at around +140. Having worked in politics as a strategist, everything I see in the internals of the polling data, says this is McCain's to loose. If that happens it is very difficult to say what direction the markets, and country as a whole, would go.

kio - for those of us with less than half a brain: when was it investing became illegal in Europe? Why you black-and-whiters are afraid something of yours is going to be stolen if we have a rational country is way beyond me - must be the less than half a brain thing.

I'm not much of an investor, but 2 things occurred to me as I read kiowamohican's post:

1. You can't shoot fish in a bucket too many times before the bottom is non-existent.

2. When you are shooting said fish in the bucket, be sure not to shoot yourself in the foot, as well.

And I hope you all have a nice Memorial Day, especially remembering the guys and women who lost their lives for our freedoms. And one of those freedoms is my right to say that I hope you remember the over 4,000 guys and women who have died in vain in Iraq.

Yeah; I make profit investing. Just as ANYONE with half a brain can. It's called capitalism. I have no special gift, I make money by using the brain God gave me, and taking advantage of the freedoms and liberty that were given to us by our founding fathers. If you want a big government socialist program for every aspect of your life, God bless ya. Even when you get it all you'll STILL never be happy. That's how all you big government whiners operate. Nothing will ever satisfy you.

Once you get your Socialist utopia come November, we all know you'll still be complaining and whining. Just as I'll still be making money short selling the US markets as they crash from the liberal agenda. Granted I'll be taxed a lot more, but the easy $$ will be like shooting fish in a bucket, so that even a much higher tax won't matter from the insane profits you will be able to make with shorts and put options.

Always a positive to everything in America; even when things are made bleak from the endless assault of big government do gooders, such as yourself! ;-)

Try and have a Happy Memorial day
We live in a great country!

Kio, you must be a big investor defending those big profiteers, and throwing around big dirty words like S-O-O-O-O-cialst.

And adaptable! "Socialist" instead of "commynist," and "Go to Europe," in place of yesteryear's favorite, "If you don't like it here, go to Russia." Hug your 38-yr-old-father-of-three deep-thinker real hard; his sycophantic kind is toast this fall, and he will be a trifle lonely among those honestly trying to fix the mess his lying know-it-all kind - the Gingriches, Delays, Bushes, and Shotgun Cheneys - have made of OUR country.

mabusejuvenalis:
Great post!
You provided your own answer to ALL your whines and rants!
MOVE TO EUROPE!
If you think their Socialist systems are so great, book the next plane and move over there to your favorite Socialist country. Leave our Capitalist system alone.
Have a safe flight, and enjoy! ;-)

Kiowa, why bother responding to you, since you have already got "us" figured out? JSM gave some more starters though; and if I did bother, how about a look at the phony underlying assumptions in 38 yr-old father of three Mr Ryan's romp. Why can virtually all the European countries, much smaller nations with much smaller economies, be able to afford their citizens a decent life quality - proper mass transit (magnificent intercity rail connections), full health coverage, appropriate pensions and generous senior allowances, reasonable work weeks, proper unemployment coverage, fewer prisons and prisoners and more rational penal systems, effective police and defense funding without breaking all records, reliable properly costed utilities, international relations marked by honesty and respect, etc, etc, etc? These are the questions Ryan should be asking, instead of starting with the assumptions and rhetorical premises fed to him by the isolated, unconcerned, corporate and wealthy few.

Hey, you guys rant all you want, blow yourself away.

First you said he was all rhetoric, and had no real ideas or plans..A talking head, blah, blah blah. You asked for his plans, and said "I'm waiting" (see below)

Well, I provided you his plans. You guys are typical of ones who love to complain and offer NOTHING in the form of solutions. You spew this nonsense that he's a talking head, and has no plans, ideas, ext. Then when the plan is shown (and it's been all over every major newspaper, I simply read the WSJ because it's the best paper in the world for business), you say it's a joke, more corporate welfare, ext ext ext.

OK; lets see your plan then. You guys love to rant and rave, but how about giving us your solutions? Since your of the Socialist mold, I'm sure your plan goes something like TAX...TAX SOME MORE...TAX EVERYTHING.

perhaps it's time for that to change! I, for one, would like the President to be a person of integrity for a change.

He's certainly got the brains. I'd hate to see him compromise his integrity or principles in any way. That almost seems to be a job requirement for President, unfortunately.

I think he would be a very good President.

Hey, I like me some Russ, but I'm not sure I want him for Pres. Don't get me wrong -- I'll take him over Dubya any day of the week.

Russ Feingold for President!

That should read $1 TRILLION. Those crazy eights!

Let's not forget that in his 8 years in congress, Ryan voted for 8 consecutive budget hikes, increasing the budget by $8 TRILLION. Yikes! He also cast the deciding vote for Medicare Part D. Still so proud of Paulie?

A piece written by Ryan himself. I'm no expert, but my initial reaction is that this might help the upper 5% of society. An alternative flat tax rate of 25% for income above $100,000? Get rid of taxes of capital gains, dividends and estate taxes? That will NOT help reduce the deficit. Also the health care credit is not going to address the biggest problem, which is that we need a single provider system, whether it be public or private. The credit is much like our novel stimulus rebates, popular with voters, but doesn't really do much in the big picture. Finally, privatizing social security just publicly accepts the demise of social security and puts the nails in the coffin that much sooner. I do give Ryan credit for coming up with something. However, I am much more proud of Feingold, who surpasses Ryan in every way -- intellect, ability, and integrity. And he did so without relying on his family's name and fortune.

kiowa - Right, massive corporate write-offs, sneaky new ways to privatize social security, hay-wire statistics, and depleting govt tax coffers to put more billions into the hands of high-profit insurance interests. And so much more. All coated with sweet family self-reference. Any wonder this "visionary" plan by a "true leader" appeared in Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal? Sure Ryan "has done lots of research": reading (or having his aides read) clandestine briefings from powerful special interests. Paul Ryan for President!

JSM:
Paul Ryan recently just released a VERY DETAILED plan for entitlements. It was just published in todays version of the WSJ. Here is the link:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12113285...

Agree, or disagree with Ryan's plan, one has to give him credit for at least tackling the very serious problems we face down the road with entitlement spending, and coming up with a plan of ACTION. How many times do we see congressmen/woman rant and rave about this, and that, and propose NOTHING of their own? The old saying "if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem" really holds true with so many members of congress these days. Ryan is a true leader and visionary in dealing with real serious problems that this country will face with entitlements down the road. While most just play politics, and blow it all under the rug for future generations, Ryan has done lots of research, and come up with real solutions. I for one, and very proud to live in a district represented by one of the best members in the entire congress!

Me either, Seabee.

But rhetoric is all the Repubs have, that and rip-offs for the rich. JSM, I am waiting too: What gut? what check? And what consequence?

I just did a gut check and I still can't see my belt buckle.

OK, in all sincerity, can some Ryan supporter/Republican tell me what the result should be of this 'gut check'? I've read this whole thread and I haven't really seen any concrete examples of an agenda/platform/suggestions for change. I'd prefer some specific goals rather than more rhetoric. Thank you.

mabu..., your attempts at polysyllabic sesquipedalianism are boorish.

You've got it on the head, JSM: Curious phenomenon how some feed their ill informed resentment by blatherskiting anti their own and the larger peoples' interests. It wouldn't matter - their clumsy attempts at word play - would in fact be mildly amusing - if one had the time. Except that all that cacophony and cant distracts from the real issues. And the special-interest privileged, whom Bush and Ryan grovel so readily to serve, ride meanwhile daily off in their Mercedes' to the bank, smiling at our heroes chasing tails they do not understand in their self-appealing yelps are actually their own.

mabu..., billnewbie has your number. Your fervent flummery borders on the felonious. You're not fooling anyone.

I am amazed at how many people vote against their own socio-economic interest, particularly people who would vote for someone like Ryan. I could understand if Ryan represented Whitefish Bay, but this is Janesville. Perhaps it is aspirational voting or wishing to be part of the "good old boys" network.

Mabusejuvenalis:
You refer to others who disagree in derogatory terms. You make charges which you challenge others to disprove. Then you complain about the “ yammering” of others. You might want to remove that beam from your own eye before you try to remove the mote from theirs.

Oh, and Newbs: what you call self- importantance (sic) was merely inside data in reply to 1239's statement: "get back to us [note the papal we] when you know something about Vietnam. You don't know anything!" But then evidence is hardly a prime requisite to the sublimely (altered) enlightened. And still waiting patiently on those (forthcoming?) panegyrics to Paul.

billnewbs: If you browse through Gazfan's 1239 posts and come up with a better description than "rattle-trap," my hat is happily off to you. Am also open to any evidence you have that refutes the descriptions of Ryan. This, as I emphasized before, is the central issue at hand here, and we voters of the First District need to rise to the opportunity for change. But it will not be easy: befitting a servant for the rich, his campaign chest doth overflow. And yes, unthinking gullibility and crap-detectorless yammering do make me sick, as one who has always hoped in informed democracy.

Mabusejuvenalis:
One might wonder why someone, with such an elevated sense of self-importantance, would allow himself to stoop to such a level as to inform the “silly clods” whom he so obviously considerers to be unable to grasp the nuances of his enlightened opinion. Speaking for some, but not all, of the “rattle-trap types”, I can say that I find nothing particularly compelling in your posts. Statements such as “empty-headed pretty face” and “you make me sick” are less than profound, and disappointing from one who claims to be so well educated. And those types of statements make no progress toward enlightening the “clueless discussants", if indeed you are capable of such. But now, I’m sure, I waste my time.

JSM: We need more, many more alert people like you helping to spread the awareness about Ryan's "empty rhetoric" nepotism, and "useless talking head." And getting a viable Democratic candidate is key. As am out of country, do not know when the primary is, but the first thing will be to make sure the Ryan supporters cannot get Thomas in to "run" against him again - only to get us working classes clobbered again. With Thomas as a foe, pretty-face empty-headed "family men" would win it all the time, and continue selling us out.

Further, re Ryan as Bush's Pinocchio: a question I posed some time ago: How much has the extended Ryan family profited off Bush's millionaire-tax give-aways? Not even counting indirect spin-offs to the construction industry related to competitive international drain with his massively expanded military-industrial expenditures over there.

soside....the key word in my post was VIABLE...third party.
Not a self-funded independent ego fueled run.
.
Independence alone, does not a third party make, let alone a VIABLE one. Sorry.

What completely empty rhetoric from Representative Ryan. This language could have been quoted from anybody. He is a useless talking head and only demonstrates the foolishness of nepotism.

Well, mabu..., then maybe it's the middle of the night where you are right now.

Why don't you use your great recall to remember that it was you who began this particular thread?

With all your claimed creditionals, you don't seem very capable of expressing yourself.

Maybe you fare better in your safe little world of degree-sniffing, title-worshipping cohorts.

Don't mess with autodidacts. Our ability to articulate is tempered by reality.

Gazettefan: Genius, besides totally losing the thread here, and throwing in kitchen sinks from who knows where, you probably are not aware that your CDT is not the only time zone in the world. This "discussion" started out re Ryan's lockstep pandering to power elites and Bush's wars.

mabu...., and yet you're up in the middle of the night writing posts.

First (and this will be short, I'll get back to it later), someone as educated and as accomplished as you claim to be should know that citing your degrees (if indeed you have those degrees) is a fallacy of argument.

Articulate your case. It seems you can't. Your opinion of Vietnam seems to come from Oliver Stone movies, not the academy (unless you were educated by your fellow-traveling tenured radicals). Your version of Vietnam veterans whether it comes from your "friends" (who would be talking like fools) or whether you're spewing a self-serving stereotype to psychologically defend yourself for being a war-time draft dodger is graceless. A draft dodger is what you appear to be.

Grace? Yeah, you show a lot grace by rendering all those who fought for you (and especially the one who took your place) as war criminals.

Well, you elitist snob, you made a big mistake by blogging your spiel here. Blogging is the great equalizer, your highness.

Your education about Vietnam, Vietnam veterans, and the Vietnamese will resume later.

signed...local Russian expert, specialty: the Soviets

Gazettefan-Russia expert: With five degrees and, among them, a focus in history, a leadership position at a major medical college abroad, and hundreds of international and national presentations and publications, I hardly require critiques from certain rattle-trap types. But this is wasting my time AND stooping to your level, in violation of my own suggestion to the Gazette: sorry readers. (At least "Sassy" had the grace to self assess.) And, by the way, six of my classmates and friends were killed in Viet-Nam, a close friend life-long mentally dysfunctional, and a brother permanently disabled. And how many G**ks (the military's term, not mine) they off'ed and villages burned we'll never know.

Maybe Loeffler did a gut check though, and decided that he better resign as McCain's adviser due to his lobbying entanglements...

That's true. I got sassy dancin' 'neath the diamond sky and now it's all this!

mabu..., get back to us when you know something about Vietnam. You don't know anything!

sorry all...we did get A LITTLE off said topic...
it's all gazettfan's fault. :)

Well, sassy, you stirred this guy up, now what are we going to do?

The Lannon Stone is booked full, and as to altered states, while guessing is not allowed!!!

Scot Angus and Co: Can the Gazette do anything about these protracted moronic children like (so called) "gazette fan" and "ms sassy" filling this space with their private, irrelevant, ignorant drivel? Maybe channel them off to a love-lorn section, or a room in some cheap dive? All this childish, clueless arrogance does not elevate the Gazette's worthy mission toward meaningful democratic dialogue. Especially when the clueless "discussants" are in some obviously altered state.

wisconsinheat says..."Ya know, if everyone were to look in the mirror and be totally honest with themselves, both Democracts and Republicans, I think there would be enough common ground to form a viable third party and really get something accomplished to turn this country around.
.
But unfortunately, personal ego's are a major stumbling block and America will pay the price because of it."
&
"soside ....must be a disgruntled Republican grasping at straws."
ROSS PEROT WAS AN "INDEPENDENT" CANDIDATE!...Kinda like a "THIRD PARTY"... RIGHT??!...lol! :)..AND HELLO!
That must make wisconsinheat a dumb ol' Democrat then!! :) (lol!...:)

I was thinking the same thing, but, hey...you can't change me. But I bet you're gonna keep trying to...

That one republican IS probably throwing his monitor right about now...sorry. sort of.

Yeah, you do have a penchant for pathologizing everything. I thought we dispatched with that.

The Republicans on this site must be going nuts right about now!

ok..I was getting a little worried about the mental health and stability of my gazettextra friend...

Hey, wait a minute, honey, I don't pop Prozac at all, never did and never will. It was a joke on Prozac and Gordon Lightfoot, who I was talked in to seeing at Ravinia years ago.

Too bad about Bob Dylan though.

gazettefan...um...Bob Dylan DOES have a grooming problem. Do you pop prozac NOW when you hear Gordon Lightfoot?

Not much changes, really. You just live life a little bit "happier" and things that used to irritate you are no longer that big of a deal. You should try it. LOL Like life cereal. try it you'll like it.

I think you may have revealed a problem however: the prozac contra-indicates the rum. I think you should pick one or the other, not both.

Well said, localboy....

ms...sassy, would I stop believing Bob Dylan has a grooming problem?

Would I stop popping Prozac every time I hear Gordon Lightfoot on the radio?

News flash! - For all of you out there that don't think there are any jobs out there, look again. You now need to be educated with a degree, smart and hard working to find a job. No more are the days of just getting by in high school and finding a family supporting job at the local factory pushing buttons for a living. You can either use your body or you mind. Your choice. If you choose to use your body, don't expect to get paid much. Did you notice we don't have lantern lighters and door men anymore? I am sure when those jobs got eliminated people thought the nation was going to hell in a hand basket. Move with the times, or move to the back of the soup line. Get smart, get a degree in a line of work that needs people, and work hard. If you want to live off of the state and suck off of money provided by people who did find a good job, vote Democratic this fall. Give my money to the military, not some unemployed fat bellied high school educated whiner who thinks there isn't any good jobs out there. Got skill? Got a job. Don't have skill? Don't have a job. Figure it out.

only if your gut check tells you to, g-fan. you're getting closer to "coming over to the dark side", aren't you? It's not that dark, by the way. I see the light all the time.

ms...sassy, would I be wearing out my vinyl copy of Ina-Gada-Da-Vida?

Well said, tstocks. Though we might be better off with Lucas McCain.

The Republicans are worried??? Note to ALL politicians; How to Win My Vote:

1. In detail, present a 10 year plan to make this country "zero" dependent on foreign fuel.

2. Improve national healthcare by creating conditions that stimulate our economy and incourage well paying jobs rather than sucking more taxes from the governed. Good jobs that actually have a valuable "process" improving product is preferred over those that produce a new sandwich.

3.Never, ever, ever let our global allies down, except for the French of course!

and about your love beads...I don't think we want to go there...

asked and answered. The Captain has said go ahead with your rum. No contra-indication. Unless, of course, you consume too much of either. BUT that is where PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY comes in to play. I certainly hope we don't have to rehash the whole Bust Nets 8 Pounds blog on this one...

Perhaps you killed too many brain cells with your rum? LOL

Does the demon-weed contra-indicate the demon-rum?

Would my love beads get entangled with my medical tag?

hey I'm all for getting Al Qaeda drunk on Boone's Farm or even Milwaukee's Best. That way we might actually be able to capture him. Then we can say "gotcha" while he's passed out in his pasta.

Nevertheless, they don't call it the "peace pipe" for nothing...

LOL! Nobody says you have to wear bell bottom pants! I wear normal jeans, shorts and even dresses or skirts and I manage to navigate just fine. You have such a bizarre view of how your so-called "demon-weed" affects people! It's almost comical. But I don't condemn you for your opinion...please don't berate my ability to form my own logical opinion and conclusions. I think you actually paid me a few compliments for my ability to be rational in previous posts...

Yes, ms...sassy, if we can get al Qaeda on the weed and chain-chompin' cookies, chug-a-lugging Boone's Farm, and watchin' cartoons all day we might have peace in the world.

Who's cranky?! What'd I say?

If I tried the demon-weed, how long would I be stumbling around in my bellbottom pants before I got used to them?

c'mon g-fan, be fair. I'm trying to live my life the way I SHOULD; My life doesn't revolve around sitting down with the peace pipe, but I can tell you we wouldn't all be so confused about "who we are" or "needing a gut check" if we did...maybe if you tried it, you wouldn't be so judgmental (and, may I add, cranky?) :)

ms...sassy, re: your suggestion on another blog: There'd be peace in the world if we all just sat down and smoked some weed together.

Possibly true, but the trick is to get everyone to agree on that.

Long_Time..., thanks. And McNamara is certainly in that ilk.

mabu...., when the Vietnamese stated their preference as to who they liked, the Russians or the Americans, they stated overwhelmingly that they liked the Americans better. This was during the post-war time when the Russians had a base in Cam Rahn Bay.

mabu..., you understand nothing, you are a child, and like all children you need to be protected, and you will be protected even during the sick time of your inarticulate ingraditude!

g-fan, it doesn't rule my life...I've done the "gut check"

Hey guys, ask the Vietnamese whom they hated.
Fighting out our war-profiteering, toxic-dropping, fire-bombing Commie-phobia to the tune of about 5 million of them dead. Funny, how they're doing so fine now without us. So you silly clods self congratulate as you parse out whom to blame that it didn't "work." You make me sick.

gazettefan - very well said, finally, a post that really enlightens and speaks the truth.
*
Although, please add McNamara's name alongside Westmoreland. How the CEO of Ford Motor Co came to fill the position of Sec. of DoD is akin to Rumsfeld's bio - although McNamara is a war criminal, Rumsfeld was just plain naive.

ms...sassy, don't forget that j-grad isn't into the demon-weed.

joeflint, much of your history below is true, but you are in error when you equate what McCarthy did with the war on the spread of world communism. The spead of communism was a genuine threat and the stand we took in Vietnmam, though not directly successful, did much to forstall that spread. Our effort there ultimately contributed to the bankrupcy and dissoulution of the Soviet Union. (North Vietnam and Ho Chi Minh were clients of the Soviets and to a lesser degree to Maoist China. That North Vietnam and Ho were only nationalists is a myth of the hard-left.)

The success of the communists in Vietnam against the U.S. and her alllies came from a brutal regime that imposed slave-labor and slave-enlistment in the military. How the entirety of Vietnam suffered (and is still suffering) after the war ended is a product of that ongoing brutal regime. The democracy and capitalism that the communists should have embraced over 40 years ago are still the only things that will save that country now. Vietnam is now making strides toward capatialism; democracy will naturally follow.

McCarthy did great harm to the cause of fighting communism by seeing one under every bed here in the States. McCartyism fueled the cause of the hard-left whose wish was to undermine our struggle against a serious threat to world democracy. The hard-left did this by romantising and rationalizing the communists in Vietnam and the rest of the world.

The true culprits of the Vietnam War were Westmoreland and his ilk. Instead of fighting a war of counter-insurgency with the South Vietnamese taking on the larger burden, that crew strategised a conventional war which allowed our body count to reach an intolerabale level. (Note that the communist regime didn't care how many of its own were killed.)

I don't necessarily blame the hard-left and the people they rallied for what went wrong in Vietnam. I blame Westmoreland and his ilk. Their ill-fated strategy allowed the anti-war movement to get its foothold. None of which would have happened if the war had been fought properly. Sound familiar?

Thank God the American nightmare ends in November. George can go back to the ranch, and Dick can go back to shooting his buddies.

Socialist agenda? Well lets see doesn't Hillary want universal health care. I'm sorry look at the statistics universal health care does not work. Why should I be forced to take something I don't want oh and if I don't then I pay a penalty. Oh wait take a look at the child support system in this state. A non-custodial parent pays their full court ordered amount, does their child get that amount? No it goes into a fund and broken up so all the support orders get some. Oh don't forget the wonderful tax rates we pay here. Like it or not under the republicans the tax revenues were up and the rates were down. Last I saw the tax levy was going up.
I want to see everyone make it and prosper. What I want to know is why should someone who works hard, gets a good job, does well financially should be punished for that or expected to carry the load for the person who wants to sit back and BLAME society for their problems and laziness.
Is Ryan the answer? NO. Is he the one that will currently do the least amount of damage? In my view yes. Last I checked it is America we're all allowed our own thoughts and believe it or not I respect everyones on here. At least you are all willing to express yours.
For Paulette Garin if she shows she will protect the fundamental interests of the constitution then she's got my vote.

He helped make the mess...now he wants a "gut check"

mytake4u - the Vietnam conflict / Second Indochina War actually had its beginnings in the early 1950s while the French were still the colonial power. The French left in 1954. Under the "Eisenhower Doctrine" which stated that we would be "prepared to use armed force...[to counter] aggression from any country controlled by international communism" we began in 1956 to secretly send "military advisors" into SE Asia to counter the "communist threat". An important aside - one important reason communism was so feared was due to Wisconsin's own Republican senator Joseph McCarthy; maybe you've heard of him and his toxic campaign? Our involvement in SE Asia was considerably tempered by Eisenhower's brilliant Chief of Staff Ridgway who forsaw the huge military involvement that would be required. Nixon's "Vietnamization" was not his idea: it was the continuation of Kennedy's idea that victory in South Vietnam could only be "won" if Diem's forces defeated the North on their own. There are very many parallels that can be drawn between our irrational fear of communism in the 1950s and the hysteria about terrorism today; likewise, one can draw parallels about the validity of the threat that the Soviet Union posed to the United States and its interests abroad and terrorism today. History is not black and white -- it is a very muddied gray. Your ascription of Vietnam being lost by the Democrats and won by the Republicans is rather galling.

Right, Ryan wants a gut check, the empty-headed pretty face who has totally and unquestioningly supported Bush's agenda over ours. Without exception, over his 10 years of "service," encompassing all of Bush's 8-yr administration. Wake up folks!! Whether hundreds of billions for illicit war or vast hoards for tax breaks for the rich, ten years of mindlessly neglecting the working peoples' public interest while serving only his wealthy kind is quite enough. Times are growing desperate. We need the country back in honest, open, intelligent, public-serving hands, including the Wisconsin first district once served by dedicated giants like Les Aspin.

soside ....must be a disgruntled Republican grasping at straws.

WHO THE HECK CARES "WHO" IS ELECTED!!!...THE WORLD (or "Mankind"...PERSAY! :)lol!) will ALL be gone by 2012 anyways!!!!!
ANYWHO...I would like to see ROSS PEROT go for PRESIDENT AGAIN!!!...Thank you CLINTON (Bill! BTW!!) for the MESS YOU MADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ya know, if everyone were to look in the mirror and be totally honest with themselves, both Democracts and Republicans, I think there would be enough common ground to form a viable third party and really get something accomplished to turn this country around.
.
But unfortunately, personal ego's are a major stumbling block and America will pay the price because of it.

Holy Cow...I think the WHOLE nation, not just politicians need to do a gut check! There is no unity, no common goal, no pride in our country and the rest of the world thinks we are a bunch of power-hungry freaks.

Maybe I'll pack my bags and join jsvlparkergrad in Canada.

It's embarrassing.

40% of the American troops killed in Vietnam were killed on Nixon's watch!

NVgrf.....he may have been a crook but he got us out of the democrats war in vietnam that killed 56,000 USA soldiers. 56,000 NVgrf!!! troops sent by your great kennedy and then johnson and the whole democrat party. it took brave returning vets like my freinds and myself and riots at the dem convention in chicago to finally get us out. how dare you or anyone think the fight against terrorists and radicalized islam (muslims) is not the GOOD FIGHT!!! will the radical muslims spare you? will you convert to spare yourself? will you be brave enough to stand up to them.....THEY ARE COMMING!!! christians and jews are in danger every day of our lives from these animals?

whybesad....now you see why the democrat party is not for me any longer. all they want to do is blame the wrong people. take a serious look at everything and you see that BOTH parties have completely blew it. lied to the country (clinton too), cheated on their wives(clinton and kennedy as presidents) and slept right through the dotcom (enron) fiascal. the republicans have had their share too. but the new democrats do nothing but spew their vile rhetoric. also, people are working.....i work 2 jobs so i can start a business while a lot of people set on their rear-ends and gripe. and to tell people to shut up. tsk, tsk. all i see is hatred from a lot of these folks.

Forty-two cents of every tax dollar goes to our military and another ten cents goes to locking up nonviolent offenders, but Ryan says democrats are getting their way? Ryan grew up a spoiled brat and still acts like one. Shut your mouth and get people back to work.

I'll be voting for Paulette Garin, not Ryan.

it’s time for Republicans to “find out who we really are.”
***********************************************
A group of idealists that cannot organize a one cow cattle drive!

Someone tell Obama that John Macain is NOT President Bush. He seems to be infatuated by comparing the two. Liberals need to GET OVER IT!!!

mytake4u.......When Nixon finally did succeed he turned out to be a crook. The proud Republican tradition continues.

For the first six years of the Bush administration Rep Ryan was in lock-step with the Republican-controlled Congress that gave us phony budgets, record deficits, and a war in Iraq that McCain's would continue for another four years. Despite what he says in his campaign propaganda, when specifically did Ryan vote against the run-away spending of the Republican-controlled Congress? Ask him. Make him get specific.
In my opinion Ryan is first a Republican and second an independent thinker. We don't need his kind in the Congress any longer. The Bush administration and Ryan and his cronies in the Congress have cost us the lives and bodies of our soldiers, the reputation of our nation, and the welfare of the barely-getting-by.
I don't know how I'm going to vote in this fall's primary, but in the general election it definitely won't be for Ryan.

mytake4u total agreement here. FL and MI need to be given to where they belong... also if you look at the states won by certain dem. they are rep states and if anyone looks at vote totals mccains are minimal as to the amounts on dem tally.The amounts are not for the one you believe they are for. get real wake up and look what is in store......... another 4 years of h---

My understanding was that Nixon had a decent lead until the debates. The debates turned the tables just enough to elect Kennedy.

i tell you people. i'm an old democrat that is very disappointed in the direction of the party. very disappointed!

ooops! my bad. had the numbers turned around. kennedy won popular vote (throughout the whole nation) by a wopping 112,000 votes 49.72%-49.55%. so if one was to assume kennedy won the public in the debates you are very far from wrong. you may have liked kennedy better (i did too), but nixon did very, very well!

i remember the kennedy-nixon debates. i also remember the election. nixon won the POPULAR vote. just a foot note.

if the democrats would ever run a viable canidate i would vote for them. neither party has put up much of a canidate for many, many elections. the republicans have been lucky and have had a canidate just a hair better (not much). this election the democrats have given us NO CHOICE but to vote for McCain. it is too bad that the others are just not capable of leading a country or like i said, i would vote democrat.

Does McCain have a dog named "Checkers"?

Republicans are living in a fantasy world in their attempts to blame Democrats for screwing things up in our nation. Now they are even attempting to blame people who haven't even been in power. INCREDIBLE!!!
It is the "Compassionate Conservative", George W. Bush, who has led the assault on America and the world.
The "Party of Lincoln" is dead in the water and they know it! But what I am really waiting for are the Obama - McBush debates. Do the Kennedy - Nixon Debates ring a bell?

cozat5: Whether male or female, you haven't been paying attention because Ryan consistently and constantly votes AGAINST the interests of the people of this district. Just because he's a "pretty face" and a "nice guy in person" doesn't mean he has your best interests in mind. Looks to me like all he cares about is rising to the top of the GOP. When he "wakes up and smells the coffee", he'll see that he's going down with them instead. Vote Paulette Garin in '08!!! (paulettegarin.com)

Socialist agenda? Being shoved down your throat? Funny, I don't think most people would complain about the Amana Colonies or the Shakers... and I certainly can't count all those times those darn socialists have come to my home, forcing me to follow their wily ways. Get a grip. Learn what words mean and the history and context behind them before tossing them around so casually. In short, do not be like this guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1wSZBTAX...

EWWWWWWW!

I'm glad he's speaking out but is it enough? Come on folks lets take back our country and get rid of this socialist agenda that the left wing liberals are shoving down our throats. Ryan for VP!!!