Last one out, shut off the lights.

Blaming the union and or the workers is just dumb. The bondholders haven't made half the concessions that the UAW and the workers did. Remember that the workers pay only added up to 20 % of the total package. Take a look at the last couple of CEO's and their salaries and bonuses before you blame the union. Check out corporate salaries and perks. Compared to what the workers made? Not even close. I can't understand why people gripe about the unions. They are there to make sure the workers get a fair deal. Unfortunately they are now longer as powerful as they used to be. I read a post yesterday where someone wrote Hallelujah that the plant had closed. You've got to be kidding me. I would bet that most of the people that complain about GM would have jumped at the chance to work there if they had had the opportunity. Instead of jumping for joy at someone's job loss do something constructive like donating to a food pantry or volunteering your time to hep others. I am just blown away that people are glad this happened. As far as I'm concerned everyone should be allowed to make a decent wage not just enough to scrape by.

I'll give you that GM quality in the 80's and early 90's wasn't where it should have been. But now it is much different. Yes, when GM has a recall it is plastered all over. Our medias attempt to sell papers/get ratings. Recalls by imports get buried in the back. Its just so hip to be anti American now. Plus, Toyota gets its own money back home in Japan from the government there. Yep, they know what matters -manufacturing! Of course, all you Prius lovers just sent your money back to your motherland - Japan.

Pharm--The actual numbers aren't important--It whether are not the companies are viable and able to make good on their debt. I think we can all safely assume that any taxpayer money "invested" in GM is gone for good. Toyota is a company that is still ranked very highly--they will make good on any money they borrowed. The legacy costs are killing GM--The foreign companies will never see those costs because they have 401K programs that are much more common place today. We just need to come to terms with the fact that GM has not remained competitive after the foreign manufacturers entered the market. Whether it was caused by the greed of the UAW or incompetence on the part of GM management is of no concern--the company has been dying a slow death for some time. As far as the comment about our government allowing the foreign manufactures to "dump" their auto here--We live in a capitalist country--competition encourages innovation. This is why this country has grown as quickly as it has. Let's be honest--before the Japanese took control of this market, the quality/reliability of the cars that GM put out was poor. I owned 2 GM cars prior to making my switch to the Japanese. Those 2 cars were a nightmare--gaskets and seals leaking, transmission problems, etc. At when I went to trade them in, they were almost worthless. Enter Honda and Toyota--GM had to step up--and from what I hear, they have to a certain extent. The only problem is that I, like I suspect most people, will not risk throwing away thousands of dollars on a chance that things got better until we get burned by the foreign automakers. I seriously doubt that this will happen.......

Actually it is $4 billion so far. What exactly did the UAW do to cause this mess? The pay is the same, the difference is in the benefits. Toyota does not have many retirees yet, and I think their health care in the US is lower. GM has offered pensions for over 50 years, and now it`s a bad thing. If our government had paid to develop the batteries and drive technology like Japan did for the Prius, where would our carmakers be now? If our government hadn`t allowed the foreign makers to"dump" vehicles here, where would we be? The union is not perfect, neither is GM, Toyota, the government, you, me, nobody. But it`s not the main reason GM is in the state it is.

Pharm--It makes no sense at all to even compare Toyota's financial situation to the one that GM is facing. Toyota borrowed $2 billion and--here's the key--they're actually good for it. Taxpayers were forced to throw $14 billion at the mess that GM and the UAW created and will never see a dime returned on that "investment".........

By the way, pay and benefits are not negotiable at the local level. They could not make "their own deal."

"It`s the economy, stupid!" That is the slogan that tells it all. GM lost over $32 billion last year, without labor costs they would have lost $24 billion. It is not the union contract that is the main cause of their problems, it is because nobody is buying cars. Toyota is getting "bailout" loans from Japanese government banks because they can`t sell enough cars. Gm has outsold them for at least the last 4 months.

Oh really, then why have we had to bail out GM to the tune of billions? How many plants has Toyota closed? Here's the deal: the UAw killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Like I said, the 95'ers coulda been smart, they cold have made their own deal, but it didn't happen. It's not 'the economy's fault" it's the fault of a bunch of people who let a stupid union price them out of the market, that's whose fault it is. And, really WHO couldn't have seen this coming........it's been coming for years.

jp53545, that is a silly statement. All of GM`s employees could have worked for nothing last year, and they would still be in the position they are in because of the economy.

You are not in the union for three months, so your analogy works for a union shop also.

It ****may**** have been possible to keep janesville Assembly open ***if*** the Local 95'ers would have been ***smart*** and withdrawn from the UAW, formed their own union and cut a decent deal w/GM. That would have been the only way, but they either didn't want to, or weren't quick enough on the uptake to. Now it stands that the only way GM will ever be in Janesville again are slim and none, and slim just left town.

You're right Chad, we had a guy who hired on with us and turned out to be incompetent. He lasted 3 months and was terminated. I'm sure at GM these types of people are treated the same way? Not trying to pick a fight. I'm just letting you know how it is in the real world.

No matter where you work there is deadwood. A certain percentage of the population is like that. The only difference is that the union MUST defend those people, or be reprimanded by the NLRB. Granted, they, in my opinion, are too aggressive defending some of them, but it is their job. No industry is immune, even if you would like to think so.

I have always bought Chevys, the first new one in 1974, a pickup as usual. It took them until about 1990 or so to make a good vehicle. Now they make many models that are very good.

It has been the same refrain from the high and mighty GM workers all along, 'Buy American, buy union made etc. etc. ad nauseum.

When GM would get a bit slow, layoffs, changeover etc. it was amazing how many GM workers would take little side jobs at roofing, concrete work, etc. with never a care that they were underbidding and doing a union worker out of the work.

I watched the American textile industry go down the drain, every GM worker I talked to could not have cared enough to bother to buy American made clothing. Now there is very little choice. Where are the shoes that are on you GM workers feet made, by the way?

Quite frankly, I have never seen such a display of greed in my life, from that union and its workers. Well, they fall pretty hard I guess. Im going to go jump in my Chevy and run to the store now. Oh, did I mention that I have a job?

So jasper, everyone who works with you is a great employee? how many people do you work with? What industry are you in? I'm not making excuses for bad workers, but it's easy to throw insults while hiding in the dark. I have worked many places, and no place is as great as you described.

The problem Chad is that there are 100 overpaid non working Union members. In my industry if you don't pull your weight you are HISTORY in a short period of time. I work with a great group of people and we all pitch in and work as a team and recieve merit raises based on our skill level. Now I know this must sound foreign to you . (excuse the pun) But that's the way most jobs work in the 21st century.

How about blaming the economy, the real reason.

Blame George Bush??? I don't think so. How about your powerful and mighty union....

genrene - Part of the problem is numbers. Say with 2 thousand workers, a small percentage (say 5%) would equal 100 people. Now if those people were deadbeats, morons, worthless, whatever, that would seem like a lot of people in most eyes. But they don't look at the other 95% who are great people who work hard and just want to provide for the family. I too get disgusted with those kind of people, and they are in every environment. But say you have 20 people in your office, and 1 person is a lazy jerk. Guess what? That's the same percentage as all those lazy factory workers.
Plus, some workers become disgruntled because their boss was not a very good manager. And yes, the union isn't perfect and needs retooling, but it doesn't make it a bad thing. Anyone who has studied labor history can tell you that.

Mr. Vader, it is not who I work with, but where I work. There are a few good hard workers like yourself out there, and I will throw in a complaint every now and then, I am sure everyone does. I understand that times are very hard and I am very lucky to have a job, but you would not believe the amount of ex-GM workers who are trying now to claim workman's comp. Things do happen in factories, I get that, but don't you think that the union and GM would have been able to do more for the honest employees if there weren't so many "sue happy" ex-employees now? From what it sounds like, GM was lucky to have you, it's just too bad that everyone doesn't have your work ethic.

Genrene - are you talking about the days when our grandparents made little in wages because the bosses wanted all the money? Or when kids were forced to work in coal mines? or when they were forced to work with toxic substances with little or no protection? Oh wait, that was before unions.
My grandparents handed down their work ethic to my parents, and they did to me. And I have seen many others who have great work ethics. I don't know what slugs you work with, but your theory is wrong!

oh, and those right to work hillbillies just saw Toyota go to Canada because they were not trainable down south and had lots of quality problems. Go figure!
I am still proud to be a member of the best work force GM had.

Well,jasper, I don't shop at WallyWorld and I try and find US made products when I can. Nobody can be an expert at this, but at least I try. Maybe all you Toyota,Kia and Honda lovin' Americans ought to look at this web site to see how many jobs your foreign branded vehicle actually support compared to US made vehicles.
http://www.jobspercar.com/

Glad you bought in to all the negative "truths" our media likes to spread about US companies, their vehicles and their workers.

Why aren't the Gazette, Janesville leaders & the UAW looking into this:

http://www.employeeownedauto.org/

Gravedigger: Thanks for posting this. I dont have an answer for you but I am not sure why this would be a bad idea.

I am not sure if the current President would allow this becuase if the ESOP is held in the employees 401K then the owners of the company do not pay taxes on income until they pull the $$ out of the 401K. (the owners will be THE EMPLOYEES) I think that is one "loop hole" that will get closed.

The reason that we have unions is so the worker can take a lunch break or a regular break. Even back in the old days the unions fought for an 8 hour day and now the plants want workers for 12 to 14 hours a day. Big difference. My grandfather was a farmer and was working for himself. Of course he worked hard. What happened to the 40 hour workweek? Now plants are down to the bare bones. Workers are not replaced when someone is fired or quits. Everyone else is expected to pick up the slack. No one dares complain as there are 100's of people who would gladly take their job.

Gina51,BRAVO on all accounts. That was very well put in both blogs. I don't think I was complaining as ZOOM puts it. I was just stating the facts. When Isuzu came to GM Janesville they became a partner not a competitor.

Compare how your grandparents worked their butts off to now when there are few people who really like going to work and put in an honest days' work for the pay that they get. How many stand around, smoke, demand a break/lunch, etc? Not all workers are like that and I realize that. Just imagine the kind of products America could produce if everyone worked as hard as some of us do.

I don't buy your excuse that American workers don't have pride in their work. And you are not always getting a better product. The only reason that companies went global is for one reason only. Greed. I am not condemning all imports but we need the imports to be somewhat equal to the exports. More like a 50-50 proposal. We made it too easy for US companies to pull up roots and relocate. Without the middle class our country is in trouble. And we know the rich aren't going to even things out. There are thousands of Madoffs out there. They just haven't all been caught yet. I do agree with the fact that the auto workers shouldn't shop at walmart though.

All of you talking about buying American. It is a very nice thought, but here is my question. When comparing Suzuki Vitara to Chevy Tracker (the newer ones) they are the same vehicle. They use the same parts, etc. The only major difference is the Suzuki engine compared to a Chevy engine. Put 2 of these side by side with same color, mileage, etc., and you will find that the Suzuki goes for much more than the Chevy. Now, why do you think that is? A lot of American workers don't take the pride they used to do in making American products. So, why not take a company overseas if they can get a better product for less money?

We all have choices to make. I refuse to shop at the walmart store as nothing on the shelf is made in America. The same goes for cars. We import more than we export. Businesses move to China so they can pay workers $3.00 a week instead of a decent wage here. It is a matter of choice. But don't complain when all the jobs are gone and you can't find a decent product on the shelves. The middle class used to be the backbone of our country. It takes time and loyalty to find American made products but it can be done. What I really find sad is the auto workers who buy a foreign car. That's like stabbing yourself in the back. mattel has 85% of their product made in China and we've all heard about the lead and the magnets that kill or make our children sick. But they continue to be a leader in the toy industry because people still make the choice to buy their toys. (Fisher-Price included). And they apologized to China !. Jobs can be brought back to our country. It just takes some loyalty and dedication to buy American.

Well I guess when the UAW members shop at Walmart buying all the foreign goods sold there. I guess I can shop at Toyota.

Any SS surplus, by law since 1939, has to be used to buy Treasury bonds. Social Security is owed almost twice as much as all foreign (China, Japan, UK) creditors combined.

Ronald Reagan was talked into dipping into our Social Security by Allan Greenspan. That was one of the worst things he ever did.

"Hear" means to listen to something. "Here" is where you are or where something is. Totally two different things. When you say i want to here what the union says, your statement makes no sense.

Thank you Mr. Reagan for raising taxes seven times in six years, one of which was the largest peace time tax increase of all time. Also, thank you for almost tripling the national debt and showing the way for future presidents to do the same!

If you are going to blame George Bush, then make sure to give Ronald Reagan credit for fixing Jimmy Carter's mess.....

DEN..and that train will get you where? The past is the past, learn from it and move on. Right?

To all that would seek to blame current decisions, do not ever forget who put all of us in this position, including GM workers across the country, that would be our illustrious George W. Bush.

It's ironic that kirny1 is complaining about "foreign" manufacturers in an article about the Isuzu line being the last to go in Janesville. I'm guessing that anyone who built Isuzu's was happy for the job.

The remaining workers on the Isuzu line will retire. They are not getting laid off. Just for clarification...

KIRNY, as much as I would love to see your point be the truth of our country, it has to be understood that one's common devotion and pocketbook don't always support one another. Sad, but true. Foreign items took us over by their much more affordable costs (the reason why are becoming more and more evident), and in the beginning that is what people needed, more affordable means. Now that the 'ethical' concerns are coming into play, it is a battle that has gotten out of control. Yes, this needs to be fixed, but I also have to believe that the desire to ruin our country was not the agenda of 'foreign buyers', the need to support their families and to let their dollar stretch was the agenda. Lessons need to be learned, they most times can not be told.

Snarly, No Union or anyone can save any plant when the good people of this great country go out and buy the Kia, Scion, Toyotas in general and anyother foreign vehicle. Those foreign companys built there plants here to make money. I guess they proved to all that they did just that.However the money goes back to that country. It doesn't stay in the U.S. Hence the problem. If the money went to the good auto workers and subsidaries then all would be well. It's not just the Unions. They have helped a lot of people.

Why aren't the Gazette, Janesville leaders & the UAW looking into this:

http://www.employeeownedauto.org/

miltonalum.... why, how? doing what? Sarcasm off too...really just curious why you think that.

"MAYBE, after a year from now, the GM bashers will be bashing some other company or union."

There is very little doubt that they will be doing just that. Anyone who makes more than the $6.75 per hour that they make is fair game, in their "minds".

BAHHHHHH, I can't take another GM article. So sorry, but oh it is sooooooooooooooooo depressing to keep seeing "GM to CLOSE" headlines. :(

O just a little info for all the people who said the union would save them I was at a bar the other day and this former GM worker was CRYING the blue's because he lost his job at GM and he was drunk off his butt and i had to giggle because it was the same person who said the union would save his job HMMMMM?????

if it wasn't for the union, MANY people would have NO money coming in to feed their families.
MAYBE, after a year from now, the GM bashers will be bashing some other company or union.

beentheredonethat,well I would like to here you'r story on GM.

O sorry about the miss spell but i still like to here what happen to the mighty union.

snarly, I'll pay attention (and maybe reply) to your posts when you learn how to spell simple words like "said" and "hear". I'd ask for proper punctuation, too, but let's start small.

just face the fact that GM is done, gone, left town,O and i seen a lot of cars,trucks,motorcycle's up for sale, Now then where are all the people who sed GM will not close,a lot of post from the past sed the union would not let this happen HMMMMM?????? I would love to here from them now that the plant is closed, I'm not GM BASHING but i would like to here what happen to the mighty union.

HALLELUIAH!!!

miltonalum, sacrasm off, yes. Brain off, definitely!

"Laid off" is a nice sounding term used by the State and Fed unemployment offices thus means you lost your job through no fault of your own.
"Fired" means that you did something wrong (stole from the employer, had an affair with the CEO's wife, etc) and lost your job.

Hmmm...the end result is still the same.

I really belive that GM will stay in janesville.

Sarcasm off.

We haven't been fired! Jeeze, don't you read anything? We can transfer to other plants. Thus, we are laid off!!!

Don't forget that was OUR money.

Secretary Paulson and President Bush wouldn't have given away that money without a good reason, rooster, not to worry.

american workers sure could have used the 37 billion that went UNRESTRICTED AND UNRECOVERABLE to overseas/foreign banks. even the non english speaking fat cats win out again.