No body's job is secure whether you have college degree or not. However a college degree will allow a person to find a job quicker than the person who worked 20 years putting screws in. Why be satisfied with a high school diploma when it is a known fact that college graduate will make 20-50% more.

beenthere1968: If a country is on the government's list of people allowed to immigrate to the United States, those coming with employable skills (that earn high wages) usually go to the front of the line already. Your proposal, although given with sarcasm, is already in action.

Displacedworker.....Why would a cost of living differential between WI and OK factor into Mercury's decision to relocate production to Oklahoma? Those of you that are condemning Mercury Marine or the CEO/management need to get a clue. This is a company whose goal is to maximize profits for shareholders--it is not a social service program set up to better the community in which it operates. If it can reduce costs by relocating to a state that reduces operating expenses, it only makes perfect sense to do so. They are showing that they want to work with the Wisconsin factory by putting an offer on the table--they're making an effort--hopefully the union jumps at the opportunity........

Right you are beenthere, there are certainly no doctors, engineers or professors from third world countries in America competing for jobs right now.
Actually, many are among the highest paid in their profesions in this country because they bring value to their jobs that others cannot or will not. Everyone is replacable, the question is how easy is it to find that replacement and is that replacement capable of doing the job as well or better and at what rate they are willing to do it for.

Isn't it interesting how the blue collar none skilled workers are the fault for all of the factory jobs leaving the state or the USA. I'm sure the unfair competition from the third world has nothing to do with it. Maybe we ought to be more open to allowing the third world countries to send us all their degreed people like lawyers, teachers, doctors, engineers and politicians. I have to guess they would be glad to move here and take those jobs at a fraction of the current pay. After all it seems like if the blue collar workers are supposed the grovel then it should be the same for all you degreed people who think your not replaceable!

Some of you need to learn the concept of supply and demand.

ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT UNIONS IS, WATCH YOUR BACK!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I didn't explain myself very well. I want to know what dollar figure (ie.$10,12,..25) a factory worker should make in the U.S.

There is no "right" amount. They should make whatever there value is to the company (which seems to be where the whole union wage scale got messed up in the first place.) If a Union worker in Fon du Lac is worth $50/hour then he should receive it. That would assume however that no one in Oklahoma could do the same job at the same quality level at $25/hour.
How much should someone make for cutting your grass? If I am paying someon $30 each time they do it and someone comes along and offers to do it for $25 should I have the right to make the decision to switch if I am comfortable that I will get the same work done for $5 less or should I be forced to pay anyone who cuts my grass the same $30? Likewise, if I decide to keep the guy who charges $30 because I believe he is worth it and he comes to me next year demanding $35 simply because he has been "on the job" an extra year should I be forced to pay him even if his work brings no more value to me this year than it did last or should I be able to explore my options once again?

CEO's are STILL making them HUGE bonus's while they demand cuts from the unions.(8% of the total work force in U. S.) Besides, being "out of touch" with the common man (or woman),their ego would not be able to handle a cut.

If everyone takes a pay cut - CEO's. , management and union workers then I can see they are all in it together working for a common goal.

I understand the value of a union especially when the union has a "leg to stand on". Unfortunately in our current economy and willingness to whore our manufacturing out to the lowest bidder, often time sacrificing quality, it has all but destroyed the power unions once had. Some unions have also abused the power of the union in the non-lean years which has now caused the damage we are seeing. However, it takes two to tango and the companies have approved concessions and are just as much at fault. After all this rambling, I agree with those to vote for the concession. While it may "feel good" to stand on your union principles and say no, it feels better to eat and pay your bills.

There are those that wonder if the Executives will take a pay cut, or why give in to extortion? Good question. However if the Fed's and the State governments would LOWER TAXES companies could probably make money and thus pay a decent wage. Also, if 25% of the workers income was not going to taxes they could have a living wage without breaking the company. We tax the company if it makes a profit, we tax the workers wages and then we tax the consumer who buys the product.

Reduce taxes to 12% accross the board and you will see this economy roar back to life. Maybe guys like me will have money left to buy a new outboard engine.

pubsrus. Sorry for jumping on you. I think we are on the same side. After reading your whole post I realize that. I get worked up on this union stuff. Continue on...

pubsrus... You have never seen a union vote, and pass a concession?!? Do you live under a rock somewhere? Have you ever heard of the Teamsters?!? Local 200 in Milwaukee representing USF Holland, not only once settled for a 10% pay cut. They just now settled for another 5% pay cut. Not a long time ago. They just did it. Do you know why? Because they want to keep there jobs! There is language in those concessions to give it all back to the workers when the economy turns around. A job is better than NO job! My guess is you are retired or close to retirement and only give care about youself. By the way. I'm an active member of local 200. I never had a union job before this one, and never needed one to keep my job.

916WI
I guess I didn't explain myself very well. I want to know what dollar figure (ie.$10,12,..25) a factory worker should make in the U.S. I want to know when everybody will be content on this forum that the wages someone earns is the right amount.

Quit bitching when the workers do not have a job like the rest of us thanks to the union's idiotic decision not to vote yes. A job is better than no job even with a 3 year pay freeze. I went thru a 3 year pay freeze in the mid 90's with GMAC finance division and still had a job for a few more years but after 1/2 the office quit and the lucky few who worked 2-3 jobs with OT of course with NO pay raise stuck it out and then all of us got the ax when the branch office closed and shipped everything to Mlwk. Even though miserable, at least the OT and a paycheck for the next few years was better than nothing and the Mercury Marine union should realize this in today's more economic hard times. Wake up and say yes, at least workers' will have a job.

Wisconsin job cuts not as severe as region, nation
http://www.jsonline.com/business/5395612...
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It does not seem to be the Wisconsin business climate that is closing factories. We are actually retaining jobs better than most other states.

Pubsrus......You asked how much they should make? The should make the same amount or possibly a little less than the non-union Mercury employees make in Oklahoma. At that wage level there would be no benefit in moving the production.......That was an easy one!

chipback-chipback
Aug 21, 2009 at 1:18 p.m.
Suggest removal I have yet to see a union vote for a concession. How much do ya wanna bet that they vote 'no'? Logic would say to vote for the concession, keep your job, plus the one of your neighbor.

But who ever said that unions were logical?

You my friend are either young, ignorant, or both. I remember voting for contract concessions with GM in 1980 where GM said if you sign these concessions we will not raise the price of a car for three years. They raised prices before the ink was dry on the contract and raised them three more times after that. At some point in your life you have to make a stand. After reading some of these comments on this forum I am sure some people would concede their wages to $3.00 an hour just so they would have a job. Well at some point your wages won't buy what you produce and we are just about at that point.

I also have a question for everybody on the forum. As corporations try to do more work with less and less people and workers are asked to concede more and more; at what point do you have enough balls to say enough?

trublubrewcrew--how much per hour do you think a worker should make in the United States? I am speaking of a manufacturing job like the ones at Mercury. I have never seen so many people bitch about union members when they only account for 12.4% of the entire U.S. work force. I am just curious as to what your take on that is.

testosterone and pride. case may be closed on this one.

The problem is that most of the workers left there are close to retirement anyway. Do they even care what happens in the future?

Yeah, this one seems like a no brainer. Voting no = voting to lose your job. I'll take the pay cut.

Will the CEO's take a pay cut? I doubt it.

I have yet to see a union vote for a concession. How much do ya wanna bet that they vote 'no'? Logic would say to vote for the concession, keep your job, plus the one of your neighbor.

But who ever said that unions were logical?

May be Wisconsin needs to promote no unions and companies will start relocating here.

This is pretty stupid for the union to decide whether 900 people keep their job. I am glad I do not work in a union place.

trublu; exactly correct

Unions have truly lost their purpose. Once useful to protect people in the beginnings of the industrial age, they have become a roadblock to sensibility.

Oklahoma?

I think they meant Mexico.
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Also, are the big shots taking a pay cut?

Typical union members. Enjoy unemployment.

I know if it was my job on the line, I would vote for the concessions. I doubt there are even 850 jobs open in that area.

Where it stops NO one knows

Round and round we go

No kidding - make 2% less or make 100% less???

round & round we go

Hmmmmmm let's see, accept package lose 2% raise or vote no and lose job. Hmmmmmmmm....