God help us when this political crew (the great stimulators) takes control of health care, Kiowamohican. The outrageous inflation of the past few years in that industry is going to look downright thrifty after the government seizes it!

billnewbie:
One never needs to actually look into the #'s when federal government $$$ is involved any more. Remember hurricane Katrina? When the federal $$$ finally did arrive many skeptics did the math there much as you did here, and it ended up that every citizen of New Orleans could have been given a brand new $1/4 million home with all the billions of $$'s that were doled out for housing reconstruction. Of course most of the $$ never got to those who needed it. It ends up going to the contractors, sub contractors, scammers, and most of all those who made big campaign donations to those calling the shots for whatever project it is.
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That's all this stimulus is, ONE GIANT SCAM. Your #'s make total sense, but you forgot to calculate in just how much of a kickback each contractor involved in this bike path sham is getting to pocket. Always is a nice kickback for those who greased the proper pockets...After all they DO deserve it, they made huge donations to the right politicians!

Perhaps so, Justsome1here. But it's not concrete, and it only has to be built to handle up to 300 lbs. of vehicle and rider whereas a driveway must be built to withstand 3,000 lbs. vehicles and perhaps much more that may be stationary for long periods of time (parked). So why does this bike trail need to cost so much more (50 - 300 %) than a driveway or a sidewalk?

billnewbie - The bike trail in Janesville is wide enough for a car or an ambulance to easily drive on. I would say that makes it wider than a sidewalk.

As I posted on the WCLO bike trail "stimulus" story earlier today, the cost is about $45.77 per linear foot for this bike trail (9504 feet = 1.8 miles, $435,000 divided by 9504, or $60,416 per 1/4 mile which is as much as 3 times more than Janesvillean's estimate for the cost of a driveway). The city of Janesville charges less than $30 a linear foot for concrete sidewalks! Janesvillean wrote that there may be bridges and concrete work involved as well. Considering where this trail is stated to go, there are no streets to intersect, no curbs, no rivers, creeks or streams needing to be bridged, just empty land. And judging from other bike trails I've seen, bike trails are about as wide as a sidewalk which is considerable thinner than a driveway (and therefore should cost less than a driveway too). So why will this bike trail cost 50% more than a city of Janesville installed concrete sidewalk and as much as 3 times more than an asphalt driveway? Is that what economic stimulus means now-a-days, to overpay (perhaps politically well connected construction firms) for "infrastructure"?

Kid: Really? Where? Are you referring to the tunnel underneath highway 14?

Oh nice, at least I will reap some benefit from this Chinese funded stimulus package. Granted the package will not do anything it was intended to do, in save any jobs, jump start the economy, ext... Instead all it will do is leave unsustainable debt that will create a total economic collapse down the road to future generations, but damn it, I'll be able to ride a nice bike path! I guess after I ride that bike path, I can go over to Iowa and not have to smell that pig stench; as millions of $$'s went to fund Pig odor as well. VERY productive use of borrowed $$$ to get the economy back on it's feet! clap clap

spark, I will agree that the economic troubles are not just propagated from the last administration, each has it's faults. But the last administration saw the signs coming for at least 4 years and did nothing to stop their buddies on Wall Street and the banking industry from wrecking this country. The buck stops there.

I'm sorry, justaguy. Maybe you can explain the term circular flow of money, and how it pertains to an economy better than I can. Please enlighten me.

kennedy. theres CURRENTLY a tunnel on wright road. apparently there IS logic behind making a crossing safer. huh.

chad vader: you sound a bit ignorant yourself ...

Team Obama stated that unemployment would peak at 8% with his stimulus in place. Oops, the June unemployment rate was 9.5%...Joe Biden went on the record this week stating "the recession is worse than we thought". I guess there's tons of "HOPE" with the new administration that was supposed to be the saving grace. Sounds like the "O" team got their stimulus passed based on misinformation.

I agree that this seems like a terrible way to spend stimulus money. The ideal way to spend stimulus dollars is on projects that have low material costs but high labor costs, maximizing the dollars that are pumped into the local economy. Given the size of the crew needed to install a bike path, this seems like it does not pass that test. It will keep a few workers busy for a few weeks.

Crunch: I don't get the Woodmans's reference. Could you elaborate? It sounds like there's a story there that I missed.

sarahb: i wasnt tryin to be a richard. really just curious why you thought that was excessive.

The stimulus is a total scam. Only a few jobs will be saved temporarily from layoffs. So if you work for Lycon, Bjoin, Mann, Churchill, JP Cullen, etc, then you did not get laid off this summer. As for the rest of us we are getting very little out of this tremendous tax and spend operation except the Bike Tunnel, Bike Path and some road repairs that should have been taken care of with the transportation budget but good old Doyle raided that last year. So once the “Suckubus (sucking the life out of the taxpayer)” money is spent we'll be back in the same position with layoffs but now a much higher tax burden. Real long-term jobs only come from sustained economic growth and not some gimmick that just steals from Peter to pay Paul. I challenge everyone to just ask two simple questions of the management/owners or executives at your place of work. (1) Has the Stimulus impacted your company in a positive way. (2) If yes, in what way or by how much has it helped the company to avoid layoffs or increased budget spending. I talk with people every day from all over the United States through my work. I talk with distributors and business owners from a variety of industries and not a single person can honestly say the stimulus is helping their business or expects it to help. I’ve been doing this for weeks and have probably talked with 250 people in 19 States and the future is not so bright. The hangover from this spending party is going to be frightening.

I wonder how much our grandchildren will like this idea when they get the bill for this "stimulus" item?

Look, there is not an actual paper requirement that a "job" be created. (When you buy one pencil, do you create a job? No, but thousands of people buying pencils do create jobs.) The point is to do projects that contribute to the construction sector of the economy and represent investment in the future viability of communities. This section of money was given to the states as discretionary, and the state decided that some portion of it would go to recreational projects. The money is being used as designated by Congress and by the State.
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garyprimer, and lakennedy, the term "shovel ready" in terms of the stimulus bill was defined as ready to be bid within 90 days of the money being allocated. But only a portion of the money was given this restriction. This grant comes from a state discretionary fund, and from the second round of funding for that money.

witsend - A Koolaid stand sounds great. First, lease or buy some land next to the trail. Then get the required Koolaid vending license. Lastly, have the health dept. put their okee dokee on it and you're good to go. Ooops, I almost forgot one thing: The dozen, or so people who already do that sort of thing that are already in line a head of you (woodman's cronies). Good luck!

The problem with this stimulus money is stating in 2012 10,000 baby boomers will sign up every day for social security for the next 20 years. The Bureau of public debt report says; Social Security and these pensions are unsustainable. The Social Security and 211 other retirement funds were paying about half of the yearly deficit the gov squandered until the economy tanked. So, Mr.Chad Vader, you put 30 years in GM. My first year of Social Security withholding was 1965 when I was 14. I will not sign up until age 70. That is 56 years of sending money to Washington for a broken promise that they can't keep. And even if they do send a check, inflation will make it worthless. Our pensions Mr. Vader are at a fix rate. Our Gov will pay back all these debts with inflated worthless money. Enjoy the bike path.

ledzep;ive said it so many times people are sick of hearing it.i agree with you this town needs a mayor.as long as this city is run by the city council,this is whats going to happen,waste of money.im not saying that a bike trail may not be needed, i dont know i dont live out that way,but i think they need to get their priorities straight.the reason i think they dont want a mayor is because i think they feel they will lose control of all their foolish spending.an who would we get to run?

Maybe I can set up a kool aid stand on the bike trail to get my share of the $$$, that is if I don't get mugged.

It's all about so-called liability,and taking care of their own! Hell as simple as mowing a lawn has to be performed by the so called professional,big joke. I see this money going to the city and it's cronies,not if any will go to the unemployed,business as usual.

chad_vader - I'm assuming because the previous sections were built by city employees and because it's a city project, they will use their current sources. That's why they have those employees. My point to my response of your post is, everything isn't because of the last eight years and everyone can't choose what they want and don't want to pay for. The schools and ice arena employed people to work on those projects and I listened to people complain about that. Stimulus money still comes from us.

It probably means whatever it needs to on any given day for any given project. Does anyone know if there were specific guidelines issued or if this is just speech writer's catch phrase?

spark - Are you sure it will be built by city employees? Do you have a source? If it is built by a contractor, if they are not hiring new workers then there is also the possibility it enables them to NOT have to lay off anyone, thereby not putting them on unemployment. That is still a positive. Is this the fix all to the whole economy? No. But you get to the end of the long road one small step at a time. It is those who stand still who never get anywhere.

For a project to actually be shovel ready, the land needs to be acquired, the plans have to be approved by local and state agencies where applicable, an environmental impact study must be completed, filed, and approved, and the engineers must be prepared to accept bids from contractors. Local agencies may address zoning and building code issues among other things such as extraterritorial jurisdiction. The state will involve the DNR, DOT, and DOA. If a private developer is involved, there needs to be a signed developer's agreement, a land transfer,

Whoops...I mean "no accidents there..." when referring to the bike tunnel going in on the E. Milwaukee Street crossing...

Spark: Excellent point...too often people fail to realize that the stimulus money is still coming from tax payer's pockets. In order for the stimulus package to succeed, all Americans need to spend it responsibly.
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ledzep: Janesvillians had the opportunity to vote in a mayor/alderman system years ago...no one voted, thus leaving a large portion of our city without representation...look hard at where the majority of attention is being spent...the far east side. The bike tunnel, which disgusts me on a variety of different levels, is somehow deemed necessary for the E. Milwaukee Street crossing, even though there has been accidents there. Well, if that's the burden of proof that needs to be met to install a tunnel, why not have one on Beloit Avenue? Why not have one Wright Road? Why not on Jackson Street?
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Look at the Skatepark debacle...there was a federal grant that would have helped subsidize the remaining cost of the park, but the catch was it would be built down by the batting cages on Jackson...Guess what, it's not even considered. Why? Because that's an undesirable part of town, it's best to keep it on the east side and ...
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The ice arena...where do they want to rebuild that? The east side of town....
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The Delavan Drive area is being completely abandoned. It disgusts me to no end. This city is becoming more and more segregated by these idiotic decisions.
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Also, I do want to point out that projects do have to be defined as "shovel-ready" in order to be considered for stimulus money. I have no idea who has the unique privelage of deciding what is "shovel ready?" Anyone have a thought?

Does anyone really believe either the city or some contractor will hire new people for what amounts to a relatively small project lasting a couple of weeks to a month (just guessing- maybe it'll actually take two months)? And guess who's going to be paying for the maintenance for the rest of time?

Janesvillean: Thank you! Your posting gave me enough information to know this is within bounds. I agree with the reasoning for these projects and am glad to see Janesville will be getting a share of the money.

Sarah if you have ?s then go to a city council meeting where they may actually get answered.....

Asphalt driveways, according to one site, cost from $20,000-50,000 per quarter mile. Call this seven quarter miles and you get a range of $140K-350K. Add in park benches, signage, and concrete approaches and curb cuts, as well as any culverts or small bridges, and you see this is at least within range.
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The stimulus, of course, does not necessarily come from $400,000 -- although that is money that is being put into the community (even a contractor doesn't just put it in his pockets, he spends it) -- it comes from the $1.5 billion in state discretionary spending as part of the stimulus bill. All the projects in aggregate will create some jobs, and will pump money into the economy. This is necessary because consumer demand has dramatically declined and without demand an economy cannot function.

I wonder who will be getting the contract to do the work , and if its the same goofballs that always get all the contracts in janesville, will they get it done with the amount budgeted for this project , or like almost every large project they handle , will it go over budget ?

Kid: Give me a break ... is it excessive? Can leftover funds be used on another project? I am not trying to create a beef here ... I just had a couple of questions.

no offense sarahb but if you know nothing of this work, same as myself, how do you determine that 400k is excessive??

I know nothing about this kind of work and what it entails, but am I the only one who thinks $400,000 is excessive for a 1.8-mile trail? If we have funding left over at the end, can we use it elsewhere?

Just a note from my last post. I'm also all for the bike trail, always have been. It just frustrates the hell out of me when all the whiners in this town pick and choose what they complain about or want and don't want. That was my whole point. Spending money on these things is all the same. We are paying for it. Either you want the community better, or you don't.

Instead of complaining so much, perhaps you should get out and use the bike trails. Excercise clears the mind of needless whining.

chad_vader - City employees will be the ones building this bike trail. It's not like they're going to go out and hire a bunch of people off the street. I laugh at everyone that was complaining about the ice arena, or the schools, but then when the bike trail spends money, it's ok. Because it stimulus money, that makes it ok? News flash, we're the ones still paying for this and this has nothing to do with the last 8 years. This is the new administration wasting money on stupid things. Everyone better get used to paying out of their butts for taxes and that will be for the next term.

And why aren't we using this money for our schools? Our children are our future. This is a waste of a lot of money that could go for a good cause. Wake up.

I wonder how many jobs this will create or just some contractor getting the stimulus money.

Use stimulus money to build a bike trail. Why don't they just use Opportunity Drive (Shiefers Folly) to ride and walk on, no one else is using it.

well, it won't fix the whole mess made the last 8 years. But, if people get jobs to do this, then they will get off welfare/unemployment, and pay their bills. Then they may purchase items in the local economy , which in turn spreads out to other purchases by those selling what they bought.
so Gpawcat, maybe you ought to learn how money flows in an economy before criticizing what you don't know. Ignorance sure is bliss.

So this is our shovel ready project that will lift us out of the great recession. WOW!