Sprout - get any large group of christains together and you get the same thing.

gatr, what does the law say about those who use the lord's name in vain?

I seem to remember reading in the constitution about a freedom OF religion, but I don't recall seeing anywhere in that document about a freedom FROM religion. Our nation was built on a belief in God, our founding fathers many times referred to Him. What they did do, is prohibit the state from proclaiming one national religion.

Are you reading the truth, or what Editor Scott Angus wants you to hear ? It seems Mr. Angus has taken up censorship on other articles on the Gazette Extra.....

http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2009/jul...

Good luck with that Chuck.

chuck, god doesn't respond to prayer; you might want to try voodoo.

In God I Trust he will strike prounion's computer and shut him down........

RAF - ok.

Hank I would expect no less from you; unable to stop reading my posts and agreeing with GF. As to the elementary game you and GF share, keep it up, makes you look so mature and stately, can't wait for more of your intellectual dribble.

Pro, you have attempted many times to say others have been proven wrong; with only your opinion as facts...this is no different. If you were really worried about credibility most of your posts would not be here.

RetiredAirForce, g-fan is on the money.
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Grow up!

RAF - you were proven wrong - try to retain a hint of credibility and admit it.

Resorting to try to diagnoisis again; even after all your other attempts failed? Just as well, at least your are consistant...being wrong and posting false statements.

You are a neurotic child.

Pro. So know to make your case you are assuming what others think, even though they never wrote it?

"RAF, you asked why we are posting."
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Never asked why you were posting...delusion, uh oh, might be moving past defense mechanisms now.

"if you want to know the definition of moral highground, look up the definitions of those words."
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I understand the commonly accepted definition, which obviously does not match your comments. Leaves the option of you don't understand the definition or you are assuming another definition. Either way, your continued defense mechanisms are hilarious.

RAF, you asked why we are posting.

And if you want to know the definition of moral highground, look up the definitions of those words.

You are revealing that you are very confused. You show all the signs of someone who has feelings and desires that are in conflict with his self-image.

RAF - I would think that Bill would agree that as a christian he is more likely to be moral and to obey the law than an Athiest. His posts have repeatedly shown that - your repeated denials are futile.

"just about every believer who has posted here has in in one way or another claimed the moral highground. Falsely claiming the moral highground is intrinsic to belief."
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Another fact less statement.

“Your obsession with your false claim to the contrary is a manifestation of your need to run away from something. Maybe your flight is some weird form of guilt for being rear echelon.”
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So you are back to your defense mechanisms of falsely claiming knowledge in psychology (proven wrong every time you tried) and guessing what others have done in the service…keep guessing, even a broken clock is correct twice a day; looks like the clock will be correct at least two more times than you today.

Pro, you are just too hilarious. First you say it’s not the existence or non-existence of god that interests you; only what people have been taught. Yet your post directly before and after this statement questions God…this is the definition of contradiction.

But then again, it appears you and GF have different meaning for common phrases and words than are listed in a normal dictionary.

"As for why atheists persist in posting here: you're supposed to be smart but you have yet to figure that out."
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What has this to do with anything I said? I have never used the word atheist or claimed anyone can't post here; but we know you are not smart enough to figure that out.

GF, please enlighten us with your definition of moral high ground.

RAF, just about every believer who has posted here has in in one way or another claimed the moral highground. Falsely claiming the moral highground is intrinsic to belief.

Your obsession with your false claim to the contrary is a manifestation of your need to run away from something. Maybe your flight is some weird form of guilt for being rear echelon.

As for why atheists persist in posting here: you're supposed to be smart but you have yet to figure that out.

RAF - there is no contradiction - I like to debate the existance of god, it is very interesting to me and its tought to find religious folks to do that with. You are the last person of potential faith standing, so I ask you what your opinion is.
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You have to admit it is interesting with post after post from the bible where god drips in blood and gore, doing seemingly evil things, then all the physical evidence for evolution, contradicting the 6,000 year old earth - then stories that are clearly myth, like the ark, and dinosaurs, and witches and giants and wizards and unicorns, and the slaughterfest that religion has been to the human race, yet folks state that they are adamant that they will be going to heaven, and me to hell for not believing in thier loving god.
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I guess I can understand why they don't want to talk about it - education and exposure to ideas outside the religion, as well as passages from the good book that are not brought up in Sunday school, can tend to break the "spell." Or at least make them feel uncomfortable - as if thier eternity in heaven is in jeapordy.

Pro, how does our latest statement hold true when less than 4 days ago you said the following: "RAF - a loving all knowing god - created the universe and you and continues to take an active interest in your activities? Yes or no?"

Or this comment made just after: "OK RAF - my mistake - thought you were going to state an opinion on the existance of god."

These are not questions related to anything I have told you (implied or directly) about teachings I have had, these are questions relating to my belief in God...a direct contradiction to your current posting; having only a fascination of the lengths someone will go to, to believe in what they were taught, not in whether there is a God or not.

Pro, if the issue with God’s existence, as you say is settled for you, why do you continually ask others to provide proof? Why do you continually tell others what the bible tells them to do (gods words)?

If as you said it was settled for you, there would be no interest; and no need to question others in their beliefs.

GF, thanks again for making my point. Your continue to make claims with no basis in facts; who took the moral high ground? Again I expect you to dodge the question.

Clear-thinking people have the right to question and criticize people who falsely take the moral highground.

RAF - speaking only for myself of course: it's not the existance or non-existance of god that facinates me, that issue has been settled for me, at least until evidence of some sort is provided. I also don't obsess about the non-existance of santa - or satan for that matter.
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What is facinating though is the lengths people will go to to continue to believe in what they have been taught.

"Another psychological gambit is to obsess about something that doesn't exist"
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Oh I see, like how those against religion and believers obsess about God not existing...we are back to the hypocrite area again.

RetiredAirForce, Freud isn't the original conceiver of "projection". Even you know (or suspect) that; that's why you hedged your comment with "most associated." That "projection" was not originally conceived by Freud renders your criticism as disingenuous.

Another psychological gambit is to obsess about something that doesn't exist (like g-fan's failure to properly respond). It's obvious that you are obsessing because your feelings were hurt by something he said.

Umm – Pro, hate to be the one to tell you this but that is not the false statement GF made. Again, I have repeated his claim to you once before, he stated “Clear-thinking people have the right to question and criticise people who falsly take the moral highground.” (misspellings are his).

When asked who “took the moral high ground” his cleaver retort was “Let the believers here deny that they no longer assume their previously stated moral highground -beginning right now.” So not only could he not substantiate his claim he required believers deny his false position.

If from the start he said, based on posts he read he has concluded some were taking the moral high ground and then confronted them (individually) there would not be an issue. He instead chose to falsely label “believers” in general without context and then demanded all believers deny his false position…clearly without merit.

To substantiate his claim using comments (posts) made after it further proves his original claim false; like saying the house is blue before it’s painted. Trivial, I agree. But when he, and those with similar opinions of believers, request, on these pages that believers prove their existence of god…I see no reason he is not required to prove issues as well. To take the stance they must prove and I don’t is hypocritical. NOTE: most of this was a continuation of issues from another thread.

Umm - RAF hate to be the one to tell you this but Bill came right out with it and said that christians were more moral than athiests. Maybe we should start with this: what proof do you require?
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Morals come from god - athiests don't believe in god, christians do - christians are more moral. I believe that this was his logic.

So the person most associated with the physiological theories of projection and denial, one you failed in identifying and the other you exhibit, you believe now should be put aside because it does not suit your position. Funny how your constant side-stepping off the issue at hand, as you are now talking of “placebo”, raises other questions of your defense mechanisms…but now that Sigmund, in your words, has been debunked, none of that can be true.

So back to the topic at hand…have you found any words, in print, posted by anyone on these pages, to support your false claims and accusations against believers? Or will you finally admit it was your opinion and not really true?

RAF, try ginko bilibo. I don't believe in it but since you believe anything, the placebo effect might benefit you.

Newsflash: Freud was debunked about 20 years ago. Anyone with any brains knows that Freudianism is just a "high-brow" sanction of low-brow insults.

GF, as I figured...you still can't point to anything to support your false claims. That would be denial, while you are brushing up on Sigmund you can check that one out also.

RAF, you've indicated an interesting project for yourself. Scroll down, copy and past, and in a new post spell out your point. Show how to do what you want me to do. I've already made my point.

Good luck.

So it comes down to your "interpretation" of what Bill said after you made your claim that you are using as the proof behind your false claim (that you made before Bill's words)...and you think I sound like a politician?

To make it more clear what word(s) did Bill use to make you believe he "falsely took the moral high ground"?

RAF, it's only a matter of: are you incapable of understanding that billnewbie betrayed your claims? or are you just outright pretending that billnewbie didn't betray your claims?

When you tap dance around what's going here, including your First Amendment malarkey, you come off as a politician.

GF, as is your usual forte, stating things with no factual basis; please do tell me more about my military service that your keen intuitive musings have provided you. Not sure what branch/service/era you were apart of, but “Sarg” (not unlike a character in Beetle Bailey) and please tend to be oxymoronic.

If you as you say, the last paragraph of my last post was a classic case of projection, I suggest you get a refund from who ever taught you Psychology and start reading Freud again; although my instructor was a bore I did understand it.

Your interpretation of my selected application of the first amendment is intriguing. In fact the exact opposite of opposing/stopping/stifling of speech can be shown by my asking you on many occasions to provide facts for your untruthful comments…thus wanting more “speech” from you not less.

Hank, it appears that the trio or more of religion bashers already know more about the bible and religion (by reading their postings) then do believers, why then would you need anything explained to you?

If you are expecting me to “snap out” of offending you perhaps you should stop reading my comments…so far you haven’t figured that out on your own.

These christians don't have staying power - they are just not interested.

RetiredAirForce, snap out of it!
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Can you explained the trinity to us?

RAF, I helped kids when I was in the military. Apparently you didn't. That makes it relevant. As for me proving anything to you, your sarg days ended with your separation.

The last paragraph of your last post is a classic case of projection.

You should start thinking about your selective application of the First Amendment. You're still in military mode.

Just like a coiled snake...ready to strike at someone's beliefs.

OK RAF - my mistake - thought you were going to state an opinion on the existance of god.

Pro, it appears you think heckling happens when a poster says something you don't like to talk about, or when asking others to back their false claims with facts...if that is the case, call me guilty of both.

GF glad to hear you help children from the horrendous conditions of drinking dirty water; please do let us know how you help, as you have said god was to busy.

As far as your inaccurate claim, although common place for you, of my giving you advice. If you took the opportunity to read the words as written and not try to interpret what is not there you would see no advice was given; mine was a preemptive ”pat-on-the-back” for recognizing an opportunity, as you say god has missed, for you to help children. To what this has to do with any level of military experience you or I have appears irrelevant when talking of helping kids.

It appears again you are mistaken, big surprise, this time on who or what I defend. I love to defend a person’s right to an opinion and individual thought. I will also ridicule others who, on a continual basis, bait and mislead debating others for the express reason of not respecting their personal choices.

Hold on a sec - is RAF going to add to the actual debate - I thought he just heckeled?
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RAF - a loving all knowing god - created the universe and you and continues to take an active interest in your activities? Yes or no?

RAF, you can't give me advice about helping others until you come up to my level of military experience. Not to mention the help I do give to children and babies who face drinking dirty water.

Nice of you to let god off the hook for letting children and babies die from dirty water. I'm sure all the believers and "theologians" here appreciate your intelligent input.

So, you are no longer here to just defend the right of people to talk about religion without anyone disagreeing with them. Now you're one of them; this ought to be good.

It looks like children drinking dirty water is a deep concern of yours, I agree, not a good thing, please let us know what active step you have taken to keep this from happening to other children; as you say God was to busy concerning himself with personal exaltation I am sure you have since jumped into action to correct it somewhere.

Yes, billnewbie, that's quite a victory for god. I wonder how many children and babies died from drinking dirty water while god concerned himself with personal exaltation.

"Your tenuous grasp of basic mathematics and basic US history is breathtaking."

Oh, I see...you're one of those that has to use insults! Ok...well...moving right along...

Yup.

> Actually, In God we Trust was first used on coins in 1864...just saying.

1789 + 75 = 1864.

Your tenuous grasp of basic mathematics and basic US history is breathtaking.

Actually Bill - deep down I am a fiscal Republican - and very much want to vote Republican. Bush was just so foolish - and worse spend crazy, then just a tool of the christians, stem cell research, banning effective methods of both pregnancy prevention and AIDS prevention, crusades, ect. I had to vote Obama, and very pleased that I did.
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To some degree we have abandoned scientific reason and logic in this country under the Bush adminsitration, we have suffered for it. The more we forget that the comforts we enjoy are brought by a knowledge of science and reason, the more we turn to superstition, us vs them, and fear mongering. Our status in the world suffers for it, education levels drop, our reputation is more of a theocracy than a democracy, yes I am a Republican, and I will return when the party comes to its senses.

"For those stating that "In God We Trust" is respecting our history, this country survived its first 75 years before that saying even existed on any coinage; it was an act of Congress in 1956 (not that long ago!) that made "In God We Trust" the national motto, over the much older "E pluribus unum"."

Actually, In God we Trust was first used on coins in 1864...just saying.

Still not retracting you claim to be a Republican, Prounion? How can anyone take you seriously if you are going to make such ridiculous claims for yourself? Say it ain't so,Pro!

Besides, Republicans are traditionalists and "In God We Trust" is traditional so they are within their philosophy to defend it and even spend money on it. And of course, that motto establishes no religion whatsoever since "God" is a generic term attached to no specific religion and as such, the first amendment of the constitution is not violated as it sought to protect the religious freedom of all by shielding that freedom from the dominance of a state established religious institution which the establishment of this phrase as our motto does nothing even remotely similar to. And so this effort by that atheistic group is simply a publicity stunt meant to drum up attention and maybe some monetary contributions.

Oh that's right - I questioned if the bible was real - that equals disrespectful to you and in some other countries I would be made to conform. FYI that's exactly why theocracy is so dangerous, thankfully the church is no longer able to enforce its views of reality by force.

Disrespectful to who? Again if were to say in Allah we trust you would be picketing right now.
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If when things like this do rightfully get blocked - will you be leaving the country?

You don't like it, LEAVE!!!!! see if you are free to be so disrespectful in other countries!

87 wrote: God made us and gave His son Jesus to die for YOU and me. Give some respect to your maker.
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If you use the same questions you us to try to cast a shadow on evolution you would quickly see your double standard. You asked if we evolved from bacteria where did the bacteria come from - then go on to say very matter of factly - god made us. So where did god come from?
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Why does your all powerful god require blood to forgive sins? The old testament drips with blood and carnage and rape and racisism and sexism and animal slaughter to please god - why?

Separation of church and state... I rather think that these folks had the right idea...

You have been pleased to send unto us a certain prohibition or command that we should not receive or entertain any of those people called Quakers because they are supposed to be, by some, seducers of the people. For our part we cannot condemn them in this case, neither can we stretch out our hands against them, for out of Christ God is a consuming fire, and it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Wee desire therefore in this case not to judge least we be judged, neither to condemn least we be condemned, but rather let every man stand or fall to his own Master. Wee are bounde by the law to do good unto all men, especially to those of the household of faith.

http://www.nyym.org/flushing/remons.html...

I am religious but I think that "E pluribus unum" ("from many, one") should have remained our national motto.

For those stating that "In God We Trust" is respecting our history, this country survived its first 75 years before that saying even existed on any coinage; it was an act of Congress in 1956 (not that long ago!) that made "In God We Trust" the national motto, over the much older "E pluribus unum".

Just saying.

prounion, if God does not exist how did we get here? Did some form of bacteria turn into a fish that turned into a monkey that became your parents? Then who made the bacteria? God made us and gave His son Jesus to die for YOU and me. Give some respect to your maker.

The State isn't, the House and Senate in DC decided this was the best use of tax dollars...

uuuhhh, why is the State spending money to engrave anything right now? Isn't the State having huge financial problems?

"we are free to be a stupid as we want as well"
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So far you have done that very well.

The atheists won't win this in court, they have tried and lost over and over again. If they want to eliminate these words from official use they will have to convince the electorate, and from the disparaging arguments and assumptions of superiority so eloquently on display here, it's clear that they need to learn a few things about how to win friends and influence people before they can expect much success.

Is that really Prounion claiming to be a republican or did someone hack into his account? I can't believe he would lie about such a thing. Say it ain't so Pro(union)!

woodsman - what a great, intellectual comment - believe what you want, as last I checked your free to do so - unfortunately, we are free to be a stupid as we want as well

The preceding two posts were written by religious intellectuals.

I will pray that GOD hears you non be leavers! Even at your end of life you may ask for the forgiveness from our maker,and he will forgive you,because "GOD" loves everyone & will forgive the ignorance of your ways. If the word GOD offends you people,i hope every time you see a dog,your mind takes over and spells the word DOG backwards "GOD"! GET OVER IT!!

Do any of you people that don't believe in God, celebrate Christmas? Or take the holiday off? Why...if you don't believe? Why should you benefit from a holiday that celebrates religion if you don't believe?
I am so sick and tired of listening to the ones that are offended by everything!
If this engraving bothers you that bad, then don't visit it...that simple! However, if there was something I did not believe in and it was engraved in a building, it certainly would not stop me from visiting it...I have better things to do with my time than complain about the small things! Good Lord!!!

If this group wants to have this version of a religion outlawed then what do we do with their religion of atheism should they win. If they want to not cross the line of separation of church and state - show me where those words are in the first amendment to prove their point...?

and how exactly is science considered deception and your "truths" are considered validated, concrete realities?? I understand you're afraid of mortality and need to find an answer to the questions we all seek, but to blindly insert an answer into an unanswerable question, specifically the purpose of existence, is what breeds hatred, violence and evil. God is a contradiction - if God is 100% good and omnipotent (can do anything he wants), he can eliminate evil - he created man in his own image with free will, therefore capable of evil also meaning he is capable of evil - he either created imperfection or evil, no matter which slant you want to put on it.

Free your mind from your dogmatic nonsense and stop being afraid. Science is measurable - religion is story telling without any quantifiable metrics. Accept the facts.

Another chance for the haters of freedom of religion to bait and ridicule the beliefs of others, all in the name of truth and facts; as long as they are not required to back their statements with facts...

btw, love the post(s), prounion

how exactly can you sanely state the Bible has been proven to be the truth of anything? on who's terms; your own? hence the fundamental issue with christianity - i'm right because i say i'm right - all you need is faith - that sort of thought process is the reason people blame everyone but themselves for hardships they may encounter. Christianity is a crutch for the weak minded and the fearful.

My beliefs are based on the Bible which is the word of God. It has always been proven to be the truth. What are your beliefs based on? There has been no other book that has been proven to be as accurate as the Bible. I will not argue with you because my beliefs are based on the truth and your beliefs are based on deception. I am not all knowing I am human as you are. But unbelievers will argue until a question cannot be answered and then will claim to know all the answers. But I can tell you this I believe in a free will tithe to support my beliefs. You believe in paying mandatory dues to support what you think all support. You challenged me to support my God. I know challenge you to read the Bible and tell me what you think when you are done. I don’t know about you but I will place my security on the truth. I will continue to give God all the praise and Glory he deserves.
As for the other comments I will stick to the subject we are reading about. There is no sense in debating your private issues or problems on this board.

Government should not endorse a religion. If it was engraved with "In Allah we Trust," I think most of you would be fighting to remove it because you are so offended. Well, how do you think non-religious people feel then? Religion does some good, but also is the source of most of the violence in the world.

"Imaging there's no countries, it isn't hard to do, nothing to kill or die for, no religion too."

I don't believe in Peter Pan, Frankenstein or Superman - but I would want them engraved and grant them my "trust" before some mystical man flying around in the clouds.

To be a true patriot is to have 100% faith in our government and country - the ideals and values that shape these entities are what I believe in and should have nothing to do with superstitious creatures created by fearful or control hungry people.

If we must, I suggest we all become Pastafarians and pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. www.venganza.org

I'm curious how many of you "believers" that are pushing us "non-believers" to leave the country go to church on more than Easter and Christmas. Every single Sunday? I find that hard to believe. And how do you feel about your divorced neighbors? How about your neighbors that cheat on their husbands/wives? How about your sister or daughter that chooses to wear a bikini in the pool?
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Christianity is riddled with hypocrisy. Are you sure that a group protesting a religious inscription on a state building is really the issue? Maybe you should stroll through your neighborhoods and see how many people you can point out that don't follow "God's law". I guarantee you that you won't find a single person that isn't a picture of Christianity's hypocrisy.
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Quit worrying about this and start doing something Christians deem so worthwhile like trying to save the "sanctity" of marriage. I did you a favor and desecrated your oh so holy sanctity by getting married in Iowa to my same-sex partner. Now you need to find something to offset my marriage. How about focusing on curbing the divorce rate, instead?
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Straight up hypocrisy. That's Christianity. Don't do as I do, do as I say. Lame.

I am with you prounion. You are the minority stop using my tax dollars to support your beliefs. As a Christian I see our country supporting many items that we don't believe in. However we don't wine and keep our peace. It is a shame your people couldn't do the same. But you are right we should pull are taxes from the country and spend it where it should be. Then we would see how all of you live.

Where is the Republican Tea party to protest this frivolous spending?

What exactly do we trust god to do. As GF pointed out there are terrible things happening in the world, extreme suffering - he doesn't seem to mind.
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How do we trust him to do anything when empirical study after study shows that he doesn't do squat.
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When sick little Johnny is prayed over and recovers - miracle - god heared your prayer - when he dies he was called home. Your god is your delusion - don't use my tax dollars to feed your imagination, wishfull thinking, and lazy intellect.

In god we trust; all others pay cash....

BRAVO!! 916!

Don't any of you believers have anything to say about "god's" disturbing behavior. For example: Thousands of people die on this planet every hour due to unsanitary water while your god is sorting out the concerns of steroid-brained jocks on opposing sports teams.

Rather than suggest once more that he is crazy, I submit that he doesn't exist. Furthermore, I submit that it is the believers who are crazy.

By the way, my above stated truth doesn't preclude that I love this country.

;~)

Why are people so threatened when someone points out that our tax dollars shouldn't be spent on promoting a particular religion? No one is saying you can't believe in your god. You are free to worship in your church, your parochial school and your home. A tax-funded building has nothing to do with God (I believe Jesus said it best. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.)

And those of you who do not know the history of our nation nor the origins of the words "In God We Trust" on our money or the "under God" statement in the Pledge of Allegiance really should not even be commenting here. Sorry to sound so nasty but I've really had it with the "if you don't like it go somewhere else" crowd.

this may cost a few extra bux but how about

'in (insert personal religous belief here) we trust'

Thank you bobb1951 for your original comment - "Enough already. IF these engravings offend you, THEN do not visit these establishments."
My Feelings Exactly when it comes to taverns and smoking! If you Don't Like Something .. GO AWAY! I'm Not Seeking You Out!! Why the heck would the government want us to live longer anyway? Not only will our nursing homes be overflowing, but who the heck will pay for our roads if there is no cigarette tax? And with No Social Security available, because there will be too many of us, you will see nothing but tribes of old farts wandering around killing off the young in a food fight!
I'm so tired of being told what to do, starting with seat belts in a car I paid for. If a motorcyclist doesn't have to wear a helmet when he is 10 time closer to the pavement than I am in MY car, why should I be wearing seat belts?? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the freedom of wearing or not wearing a cycle helmet..It's your head. It makes me mad that Native tribes are saying we can't use their names for our high school teams. I always thought this was a tribute to someone to be a Brave or Warriors or White Sox. My thoughts were it was a way to keep the heritage alive and in the minds of the younger generations and be proud to carry that name. But NO someone decided to make noise and change it for everyone. By the way, when is Winnebago motor-homes going to have to change THEIR name!
It's either making us use white toilet paper (where did the flowered stuff go) or telling us to get the Nativity scene out of our churches front yard or now this In God We Trust issue. Does anyone see the walls closing it? bobb1951 probably didn't intend to be quoted on all MY issues, but thanks to him, it got me on a roll. (speaking of rolls, when are they going to raise the taxes on my Dunk'in doughnut and tell me I can't eat it in a public place even if I wear a helmet?)

Prounion--No...not a terrible idea at all. Spending $20 billion to support a mismanaged company and a greedy, self absorbed union was a terrible idea. The engraving of our country's motto is a wonderful idea. It's simply showing respect to our country's history. No one is telling you you have to believe in God, and, should you ever see it, the engraving of the motto will not take hold of you with some special power to change your belief structure, so you can relax and take off your tin foil hat--everything is going to be alright:)

916 Exactly - so spending 100K to propogate the irrational belief in myths and fables is a terrible idea.

Prounion......yet this "nonsense" has been a part of our country's culture for hundreds of years......go figure......

"Why should we have to separate church and state because you non-believers want it that way??"

The separation of church and state is as much, in not more, for the interest of Christians as for atheists. Your argument could just as easily be used to support transformation of the U.S. into an Islamic nation. If democracy and Congress were able to make "In God We Trust" the law, then a democratic majority of Muslims should be equally able to make "Praise Allah" the law.

Separation of church and state protects everyone's rights, especially believers.

Our country was FOUNDED on the Seperation of Church and State. the founding fathers knew what a mess it was to mix the power of the chruch and the power of the state, They saw what a wreck Europe was, Kings ordained by God...it corrupted both. Pilgrams came here to Avoid religious persicution by the State. The current govement in Iran is a great example of what happens when the chruch runs the state. Want a "christian" example?, Try the The Spanish inquision, Untold great horror of state have been done in the name of God. WHO do citizen appeal to when the state has the backing of GOD?

I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789
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The founding father's would not have wanted this nonsense on a governement building.

It has been our countries motto since prior to 1864 which is long enough to make it part of our countries history. It is not about God in any form it is about our country and our history. People are so picky these days it is four words that make up part of our history we should embrace our history. That is just my opinion though I don’t see any problem with this it is something that has been with our country for longer than anyone that is complaining about it. I just can’t believe that people are suing over four words, do they realize that it is probably going to cost the government more money to have these court cases than it would have cost to just engrave this in the first place. This is pathetic, it is four words that make up part of our history.

OUR country was originally run based on the Pledge of Allegiance and God and all of our problems started when we removed him. Why should we have to separate church and state because you non-believers want it that way?? What about what us believer's want???? If you don't like it, leave the country!!!!

"In God We Trust is the official motto of the United States and the U.S. state of Florida. The motto first appeared on a United States coin in 1864 during strong Christian sentiment emerging during the Civil War, but In God We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_T...

FYI: The phrase "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 after a lobbying campaign by the Knights of Columbus, all part of the McCarthyism hysteria. At the time it was written, in 1892 by Socialist Baptist minister Francis Bellamy, all of our Founding Fathers were long dead.

Prounion--it's not needed for any specific reason. The same way statutes and monuments are really not needed. It's simply just nice to remember history and how we got from A to B. Last I checked this is a democracy, and the vast majority of people support the "In God we Trust" motto which has been with us for a very long time.....Like I said--If the majority didn't want, but are forced to deal billions of our tax dollars wasted on GM and the UAW, I would think that a small minority can deal with 100K being spent on this.......At least this is someing that the majority would support.....don't you think?

Where was this group of people when the Pledge of Allegiance was enacted. Also what so wrong with "In God We Trust"? Apparently they don't have any trust in God. We need our freedom from from this so call Freedom from Religion Foundation, who do they think are? God Almighty.

Oh, and those of you that are suggesting to ship the group and people of the same mindset out of the country are probably those same hardcore Christian conservatives that also hate Muslims and the Jewish. We are a multinational country and we do NOT all have the same, or any, "God(s)".
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Just because you have your beliefs doesn't mean EVERYONE has to share them. I prefer to be free of religion and agree with prounion. TAX MONEY SHOULD NOT BE SPENT ON SUPERSTITION.

I can respect and appreciate many of yours' rights to religion. You are more than welcome to worship in your homes, churches, groups, etc. Why can't many of you respect my freedom FROM your religion? A stamp of approval from "God" isn't necessary on/in a state facility. Why are we not separating church and state here???

F.F.R.F. Take a chill pill & leave "MY" country if you don't like it here!

Maybe thats whats wrong with this country we stopped trusting in GOD!

National motto and people want to complain about tax money being used for the engraving. These people need to get a life. Our nation was ORIGINALLY based on the pledge and "In God We Trust". If you don't like it, move to another country.

916 why - why is it needed, why do we need to spend the money because the majority of people believe in several different versions of various imaginary friends in the sky?
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Its irrational superstition. If you would like to argue that it is rational to believe in god - provide some evidence. Otherwise keep your mumbo jumbo out of government.

These people need to get another life.

ship them all out of our country!

Billions of tax dollars shouldn't have been thrown away supporting GM and the UAW, but it was despite the fact that the majority of Americans wanted nothing to do with that mess......I think spending 100K engraving a motto that is accepted by the majority of our citizens and has been associated with our country since it was formed is completely acceptable........

Tax money should not be spent on superstition.

proartist - U R making my brain hurt. Can't ya dumb it down a little, like maybe saying we mostly suck?

As often demonstrated on the Gazette comment boards, unbiased impartiality, tolerance for the spiritual (or lack of) beliefs of others, genuine compassion for fellow human beings, respectful patriotism, and adherence to the U.S. Constitution are clearly not functional values to many of the "faithful".

If it was a gift to the State that's one thing, but using tax money is unconstitutional, or at least we'll find out if the court thinks it is.

I don't believe in god - but my tax money is going to be used for this - where are my fellow Republicans on this issue?
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Shouldn't there be some evidence that your god isn't imaginary before we go spending money and effort on this?
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With the evidence provided for the existance of god it would make as much sense to stamp "In Santa We Trust." To a growing number that would be just as rational as what the state proposes.

Perhaps an acceptable compromise would be "In GOD most of us trust." ...since it's the vocal minority that's attempting to alter what the silent majority has accepted.

if it bothers people to say the pledge of alleagence to the flag let them leave this country and go elsewhere to live if you can't trust in god who can you trust it is not the government.

We need a Freedom from the Freedom From Religion Foundation Foundation.

What person in his right mind would trust god? The old coot comes off as kind of crazy!!!

I wonder if it bothers them that the money they use to pay their lawyers has these same words on it - "In God we Trust". If you don't like it, you can always leave - go to another country & whine all you want!!!!

If you can't trust God, who can you trust?