momof5
i'm not you honey you pretty young thing .

Riiiiigggghhhtttt......."mismanagement of the workforce"--that's a good one!!! A nice way to deflect the fact that the union bled the company dry:) When most people don't like what their job has to offer them, they look for another job. They don't hold the company hostage by going on strike. My reason for the switch to Japanese cars had EVERYTHING to do with quality though. I tried to do the American car thing and got burned, switched to Japanese cars and will never look back. Please reread the article on real estate commissions. I would bet that the 5.20% figure quoted(which is nowhere near the 6-10% you originally quoted) is the commission paid out on the selling price. It has to be split between the listing and selling agents, which would net each agent, after they paid their agency, 2 to 3% at most. There is no salary either--if you don't sell you don't make a dime.

The I guess the world and news report got it wrong too. Their headline read " 2008 Average Real Estate Commissions Inch Up to 5.20% " . The commission is for the agent, the company takes a cut too. Hence the 5 to 6%. And I am sure that the ones selling multimillion dollar houses do get more than 6%. And I disagree with your disagreement. The loss on the small cars was mainly from the 80's and early 90's mismanagement of the workforce.
Despite losing billions of dollars and substantial market share as American
consumers shift from large trucks and SUVs to smaller cars, the three Detroit-based automakers have reached near parity with their Japanese rivals in manufacturing efficiency, according to The Harbour ReportTM 2008.
There are changes being made. But it seems your anti-union, low wage paying, import lovin' eyes can't see that.

chadvader no one is making 6-10 percent selling houses--commission for each of the agents is 2 or 3 percent and your earnings are based entirely on how well you perform. I wonder if the legacy costs are included in your $1800 figure? I totally disagree with your justification of the wage difference between auto workers and other factory workers. Margins on appliances, electronics, etc. are much greater than the margins on autos--In the case of GM, it was apparently losing money on some of the cars that they sold. It's a moot point though--GM is dead in Janesville. Maybe Janesville should approach Honda or Toyota to come in and take advantage of the workforce that was left behind. If you promised tax incentives, a non-union workforce and wages starting at the $14 mark, Janesville might just get them to bite.......

well angel 407 an every other person who thinks this is a joke, you wont be laughing when they raise our taxes to cover all the people getting food stamps and badgercare. because if you think they wont be raised you are very wrong.and what do you think is going to happen when all these people lose their ue benefits? more people will be getting food stamps and badgercare,and the taxes will rise.so do you all still think its funny? hahahaha lol.i cant wait to hear you complaining about that tax hike to cover all the out of work people.now have a good day.

How true, creature. I do think the finality of the last decision will help push some to make a decision. Up until now, it was still "what if?". People who have never been in that position do not know the agony. I don't mean being without a job, bad as that is, it is still a fixed point. GM has kept people in limbo for years, for some a career change for them is not as simple as some portray.
Oh, there will still be articles about the plant for sure. But as part of this community there can be a more positive influence projected helped along by our local paper. But we still need jobs!

Hopefully this article is the last in a series of what when wrong in Janesville and GM. Yes its over. Yes its sad. We all will be effected in some shape or form by lower house values because of the increase in supply on the market, higher property taxes to cover the lost revenue, less employment opportunities across the board from service sector, manufacturing and white collar, etc. Less options for dining, entertainment, and on and on and on. So what do we as a community and individuals do now. Not bitch and moan about why me. Plan for the next chapter in your life and the life of the community. Time is critical because if nothing is done now the city will truly become a ghost town in 10 years like Gary IN after the Steel Mills cut something like 70,000 jobs over a decade back in the 70's and 80's. I would like to see a new series of articles that focus on various topics that motivate and help displaced workers. Like how to make a quality résumé, how to impress during interviews, how to network/find those jobs in a depressed market, how to make your dollar stretch in tough times, how to deal with the stress. Articles about what the State and City is doing now to bring in quality paying jobs now. I'm sure these articles may have been written in the past and are not the award winning type but people need help and motivation. We have a solid workforce and technical schools in the area so we should be able to support high tech requirements. The best defense is always a good offense. As for the heartless bashers, just ignore them, don't even respond, they'll get bored and go away, just let them show the ignorance that is portrayed by their comments and anyone who is intelligent will see them for who they are

jtis - point to where ANY autoworker said they were more special, or pull your head out of your arse before posting.

916WI - yes, the global economy was an idea to help better use resources. But our government has given money to companies to MOVE OUT of our country, enacted tax laws to allow companies to skip out on taxes, and has a trade deficit that grows every day. Tell me where that fair playing field is, I would like to know? I see our country being raped by the capitalists that wield the money power in DC. That means the losers are the middle class, the average worker.
As far as wages, if you consider a $45,000 vehicle our wage cost was about $1800, less than 5% the cost of the vehicle. We built about 65 per hour. Do the math. Hell, people selling houses make 6 to 10% off a sale, why not complain about them making more than factory workers. The product made results in the wages, not the job title "factory worker", as those in a canning factory will earn less because the product earns less.

yeah, fastlap. That will help everything. Just cut off the nose to spite the face , you say. Another fantastic idea..... God help us if this is what is considered progress.

Wisconsin needs to tax the hell out of new GM
cars sold in wisconsin dealerships so we can
recoup the tens of millions of dollars the
tax payers spend on keeping general motors
here in Wisconsin.
I hope that Wisconsin government will not buy
any fleet vehicles from General Motors for the
next 100 years

Sarah- Who is your reliable source? Once again, rumors get started to keep these conversations going. The fact is that the plant is a toxic waste land. Once the concrete is cracked. Nobody wants the liability of this land and therefore nothing will be done until the government takes control.

I heard GM is going to turn it into a museum and donate a section for an unrelated "children's museum".

What did everyone expect? Seriously, Janesville never had a chance compared to Michigan plants. Why would anyone get their hopes up like that? Unfortunately, the Janesville plant will 99% for sure never be associated with GM ever again. Hopefully, the building can be torn down and over the years, something profitable or environmental pleasing can be built on the grounds. Good luck Janesville.

916-wi I agree. Auto amkers are not more special than the the person working at another factory.

Jugs: don't want backtalk? Back up your claims with PROOF. And, while you are at it, explain to me why Local 95 was the FIRST in the nation to ratify contract ammendments re: wages???!! How does that fit into the greed scenario? And how about all the ISO designations and JD Powers' awards for quality?? Huh? What's that I hear? Silenece in the name of defeat? Thanks for playing...go drown your sorrows in some "wiskey"....

chadvader....I'm just being realistic. We're living in a global economy now where competition within marketplaces has never been greater. People get upset when manufacturing jobs are shipped off to another country. It doesn't take a finance major to figure out if you can pay someone $14/hr as opposed to $28/hr. your going to be able to sell more product at a lesser cost. Companies that shift production overseas are much less likely to be knocking on the taxpayers door begging for billions in free money:) Get rid of the middle class? I would think that the thousands of factory workers happily making between $14 and $18 an hour would consider themselves middle class. I still would like to know why factory work in an auto plant would qualify for twice the pay as factory work in any other plant? I'm not trying to sound judgmental, I would really like to know......

916wi - the only thing that slipped was that gear in your head.:) Legacy costs can be dealt with, but you make it sound like all the old timers should be taken out to a field and shot.
"Do you really think that car assembly is worth a wage premium of twice that of what a typical factory worker earns? " Well Toyota must have, as they had to match our wages to keep the union out. Plus, it is apparent you never worked in an auto factory. I have worked many types of jobs, and there are not many jobs that can tear a body down like those did. Plus, you apparently feel most of the profits should go to those who don't even break a sweat, just like the old days. If we have it your way, we can get rid of the middle class!

I'd produce in MI too. Lower tax rate. Pretty simple

chadvader--Your first sentence in your latest reply let it slip as to how you really feel about GM products:) Toyota--aside from the economic mess that hit most companies this year--has always been profitable. They will recover and will never have the burden of the legacy costs which have been killing GM. So no, I don't think Toyota employee wages will be dramatically affected. I could see where new hires will be brought in at a lesser rate, but let's face the fact, this is factory work. Do you really think that car assembly is worth a wage premium of twice that of what a typical factory worker earns? Honestly.....

ok, to set the record straight... Toyota builds some good vehicles, but so doesn't GM. People who like imports seem to ignore any good news about GM awards. Second, quality comes mainly from the parts. Assemblers put it together, we don't make the parts. Third, once GM gets 2nd tier workers going, you would be stupid to think that Toyota's wages would not drop. Their wages are only that good as so to match ours, to keep their workers complacent. Since they keep supplier costs low, what else is there to cut besides wages? And Toyota didn't want to build another plant down south, as they couldn't get quality work out of the workforce down there. But just ignore that little fact. You have a good Toyota, I have a good Chevy. Checkmate.

Maybe Wisconsin needs to secure Honda or Toyota. No Union- No Problems. Decent wages-great product. They also stand behind their recalls and not try to hide a problem.

Chad_Vader. I missed that Memo. There is always someone that believes everything they hear. Maybe Toyota will lay off people, however they will recover quicker than a Bankrupt GM.

Drunks on the job, drugs on the job - yes - it happened. The union had a good share of taking GM Janesville down. GM thought about making the new small cars in China after taking government handouts from the US taxpayers. Now that the union owns a large portion of the company, they finally realize that you can't run a business that way when the rich contracts take advantage of the company. Wow - a wake up call! Toyota and Honda factories in the US have comparable wages and benefits and they make a better quality vehicle - something GM could have and should have done years ago. If they did, they wouldn't be where they are now.

momof5-Ford,Nissan, and Tesla Motors are receiving just under 8.5 billion (total) in loans to produce fuel-efficient (green) vehicles.GM asked for and was denied 10.3 billion from the same program.
-
It's unfortunate GM did not choose janesville.But since nothing is set in stone with GM, this story may have a silver lining yet...we just won't see it for a while.

chadvader--Please don't slam Toyota. They seem to be taking very good care of their employees. All 3 Toyota vehicles that I have owned have performed flawlessly. I will definitely buy another one. I'm sure that the "secret internal memo" that was "leaked" was probably a result of just more UAW bs trying to paint a ugly picture of the foreign automakers to strengthen their own cause.........It's been 4 months since the "memo" has been released.....any wage cuts? I didn't think so......

momof5- I don't want anymore backtalk from you . i'm right your wrong case closed .

How come no one is bellyaching about Nissan, Ford and someone else being given government "green" loans today?? If it were GM the haters would be out in droves......

Angels07: EVERY employer has issues with employees. I have one who likes to hang out on facebook instead of doing their work. I'm pretty sure Orion has issues with their workforce also. How ignorant of you....

Hey jug--lay off the wHiskey--there's an H in there, honey!

I'm sad for Janesville and all who have given so much to GM. But, atleast 2200 AMERICAN jobs were retained versus handed over to the Chinese as originally planned! GO GM!!!!

Oh, and juggy, our contract was a better one than theirs. So get with the program.

angels407 - in 2008 GM had less recalls than Toyota or Honda. And for the other stereotypical crap you spew, this tells me you know absolutely nothing. You think there is no drunks or druggies at Toyota? you are drinking too much Saki, 馬鹿 .

Michigan has a better work force janesville GM workers are to greedy .

NO I am not a Detroit Loins Fan- Nor am I am Green Bay Packer Fan- Don't like football- Janesville has has all the time in the world to kiss up to General Motors and did not do so until they heard that it was closing- Drug bust a couple years ago- and people going to punch in on the clock then walk across the street to the bar - just to go punch out when it was quitting time- Maybe this is why there have been so many recalls- GO TOYOTA

Solutions, not bickering, is the only way to solve our problems. Let's hear some solutions!

yeah, jtis, Toyota is a real cuddle bear! In case you missed this news:
In February of this year, an internal memo detailing Toyota plans to slash wages in their North American plants was leaked to the media. Shockingly, the plan appears to call for Toyota to reduce worker pay by more than half.

getintotherealworld, it was the statement by angels407 "Better luck next time Janesville -NOT" that specifically was a rip on Janesville. I am glad someone is getting jobs and not having them go overseas, sad to see Janesville not get it, but would never pour salt in someones wound. That is childish, hence my reply to that post.

GM does not care about anyone. I will buy a Toyota next time. One that is made in the USA. Toyota cares about the customer and employee.

Wut?Living here I can think of a few places,so this puzzles me.......
“Their major advantage was the Pontiac stamping plant,” said Sean McAlinden, chief economist at the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor. “They had looked at Janesville a number of times, but it’s so close to a river that there was no way they could put a stamping plant within five miles of the assembly plant.”

Secondly, lil_joe, the only reason we are exchanging thoughts on The Janesville Project is because we are in blog land and the Gazette management will let it be. Whether you agree with my idea or not, I hope you feel that ideas on what to do with the idle GM plant should be newsworthy to the Gazette. I ask everyone who read this to email Scott Angus- sangus@gazetteextra.com and ask him to allow this idea to become public news in the Gazette.

Lil_joe- Apples to oranges, that's like saying that the atomic bomb technology created during the Manhattan Project put other bomb makers out of business. As with any new manufacturing technology or any new technology manufactured there will be change in the current economic production, i.e. robots eliminated human labor, natural gas changed coal exploration and development, but to blame an 18.8% percent unemployment on green jobs is a huge stretch!
In Janesville case, and the surrounding communities it would be exactly the opposite; not just restored manufacturing jobs, but also high paying research and development jobs. Similar to what was at ATK before Senator Byrd convinced them, with our federal tax dollars, to relocate to West Virginia.
Even if the Janesville Project, a plan to change the way we create energy and propel our vehicles down the street, not retrofitting building to be green friendly, didn't imporove our national economy immediately it would improve our air quality, national security, quality of life and our status as an innovative leader in manufacturing. Who's the #1 manufacturer of solar panels? China! It use to be the US.

I think "Blood" has an excellent idea. It's just that the people we elect are not intelligent to the point that it makes any sense to them. That and change means the money that the lobbyists are now lining our politician's pockets with will have to come from somewhere else.

chad_vader have you ever thought that maybe angels407 has a relative that might just work at the Orion plant. I am glad Orion got the small car now my brother has a job. I am sorry for Janesville tho.

http://www.juandemariana.org/pdf/090327-...

http://www.politics4all.com/users/mikeda...

http://www.politics4all.com/users/mikeda...

See Janesville, this is exactly what I meant in my post about denying reality. Instead of discussing an idea on it's merits and persuing possibilities, even possibilities that are not currently in our line of thinking, Formerjanes takes a shot at me personally and my reality, while lil-joe makes some off the wall correlation between something Spain just did and my five year plan that would begin the possibility of doing something that would end our dependence on foreign oil, drastically cut our toxic vehicle emissions and reestablish the US at the leader of global manufacturing, again. Not tomorrow or overnight lil_joe!

They don't offer ideas of their own, they just to diminish someone else and their ideas.
If you want realistic change in your community and economic stability, then don't just listen to ideas that you're comfortable with or what the politicians can give you. Next time you turn on a light, fly in a plane or look at your computer screen, think about how the ideas of visionaries yesterday have made your life better today.

lil_joe-
Spain did what? Spend $10 billion to develop alternative energy research and production?

Blood - Spain did just that. They have 18+/-% unemployement now. Guess it only works on paper.

formerjanes-
Snuffed it out a while back, but thanks for your concern. The Reality, in this case, is that the city of Janesville, their economy and the people, are going to be devistated if they don't come up with an alternative to GM. Tell me, what other ideas have you heard are on the table for GM, or for that matter, the Monterey Hotel?
Sounds like reality in Janesville is really the denial of reality; maybe Jim Grafft can buy the GM plant at the bankruptcy auction and redevelop it like he has the Monterey!

Wow, that's quite the dissertation "blood". Time to snuff out the joint and snap back into reality!!

Blaming your customers is never a good business plan. You should be asking yourself WHY customers chose the transplants over the Big 3. Remember, when Toyota, Datsun and Honda started selling cars here, everyone thought they were crap...and they were. Not only did they completely erase that perception, but many of their best selling vehicles are now made with U.S. and Canada labor. Don't underestimate the role of bad management in the fall of a company.

I am amazed at all the hand-wringing and finger pointing over the demise of GM and the Big Three. Please face the reality of American's making the decision to switch to foreign brand vehicles. I'm old enough to remember when no foreign dealer could stay open in Janesville and even Ford struggled to survive locally. Now if you care to look many in Janesville including GM workers and retirees are driving foreign brands. So I think people need to move on and except that those glory days are gone and not coming back. People in the Janesville area need to look elsewhere for future jobs and remember it happened because the buyers decided American vehicles were no longer desirable.

Ask Scott Angus why the Gazette won't present innovative ideas that could help reestablish Janesville's manufacturing economy?
___________________________________________
The Janesville Project
Making Alternative Energy Research And Production A National Priority

In the 1940's both Germany and Japan were feverishly working on the development of the first atomic weapon. Germany was much closer to achieving a nuclear weapon, but Japan had promised to march one million people (men, women and children) to their shores to defend against an allied invasion. Japan vowed never to surrender, their culture would not allow it!

For five years the US and her allies conducted a secret operation called, "The Manhattan Project." The best and brightest scientists, researchers and engineers were accumulated with a single purpose, to develop an atomic weapon before our enemies did. The cost was $4 billion over five years ($24 billion in today's money). History can now judge the US for dropping two nuclear weapons on Japan, but those weapons saved millions of lives and maybe even the free World!

Today we continue to use outdated fossil-fueled propelled vehicles that keep us in bondage to countries that wouldn’t even be significant if not for their oil reserves. We need to institute a new “Manhattan Project,” this time for the creation of alternative energy research and production; what better location than Southern Wisconsin, which has now become a symbol of the ingenuity-deficient US auto industry? I propose to you the “Janesville Project.”

The Janesville Project
Investment- $10 Billion Over 5 Years
Investment Source- Federal, State, County & Private Industry Funds

Purpose- To bring new alternative energy sources into production, including vehicle propulsion, household wind & solar applications, high capacity storage devices, etc. A cooperative effort between industry, government and educational/research institutions to construct a clearinghouse for alternative energy research, development and production.

First Project- Create a non-fossil fuel propulsion engine to replace mid-size to large diesel engines within 3 years and for autos in 5 years, including retrofit engines for current vehicles. In 4 years Janesville would be producing the first GM AE mid-duty truck on the current truck line.

Research & Development- The brightest scientists, engineers, & support staff from around the world would relocate to the Janesville area and it would become the international center for alternative energy development.

Manufacturing- Just as UW Research Park in Madison was built around the visionary ingenuity of UW researchers, the Janesville area would become an incubator for manufacturing production facilities throughout the Stateline area and beyond.

Go Blue!!

That's what we need Mikki, constructive thinking for this city, and not the destructive thinking others bring.

angels407 is probably a Detroit Lions fan too. Why don't you go join the riots and plundering. Isn't that what they do if they win something in Michigan?

Let's just hope our area can do something for itself. I love this area, and it needs a boost, somehow.

Way to Go Michigan
Better luck next time Janesville -NOT

i think that means oprah is singing...