Look, if you don't know how STOP,LOOK BOTH WAYS AND THEN CROSS, you should not be allowed to leave the house without holding your mommy's hand.If you don't have the common sense on how to cross a street, you get what you desrve.

That's lovely. The tunnel is not "needed." I feel you have a distorted sense of what is a "want" and what is a "need."

lakennedy - Sidewalks only exist on certain streets in Janesville, not on all. Tunnels already exist on the trail in Janesville but not under every street. You do not feel the tunnel is needed. I feel the tunnel is needed.
Enough said.

Right now, for the sake of this discussion, sidewalks already exist. The tunnel does not.
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Your claim that you know people will not take responsibility for their actions only exists because of people like you who don't make people take responsiblity. Instead, you enable them to continue to shy away from responsiblity by providing idiotic wastes of money like the tunnel. You're sending a very loud message: That society will not only accept your choice not to act responsibly, but it will endorse it as well.

lakennedy - People walk on sidewalks because apparently they do not want to take personal responsibility for staying out of the middle of the street. Same thought process you have about people not taking personal responsibility for looking both ways when crossing the street. By the way, I never stated that you said anything about sidewalks; I was merely applying your logic. I do not refuse to believe that other people will take responsibility for their actions; I already know they will not. If they would, there would be no need for this discussion.

Apparently there is something wrong with your thought proccesses. You seem to be creating things in your head. Where, again, have I mentioned anything regarding sidewalks? Let's stick to the topic at hand.
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Your support in creating tunnels because you refuse to believe that others will take responsibility for their actions only adds to the problem. You're creating a situation where no one DOES have to take responsiblity for their actions. You're enabling them.

lakennedy - My thought processes are just fine. According to you we shouldn't have sidewalks either, which would be fine with me since I paid for mine and my neighbors who don't have one still get to use it for free. It would be great if everyone (drivers included) would exercise common sense and courtesy, but I highly doubt that will ever happen. I can be accountable for my own actions, but I certainly wouldn’t count on other people taking accountability for theirs. Hence, it creates a safety issue.

Excellent thought process. This way we take all personal responsibility out of the equation. Why should you have to be responsible enough to look both ways when crossing a street? Why should you have to be responsible when driving? You're right, let's just build an entire tunnel system. On second thought, why don't we carpet the entire trail, just in case someone falls and hurts themselves?

lakennedy - Don't have to imagine those other crossings. I have ridden the entire trail and ever time it crosses a street it becomes a safety hazard. Tunnels belong at each and every one of them and should have been installed when the trail was built. They were not so this is a step in the right direction to rectify that situation.

whoanellie: your assumption that criminals will hang out in a tunnel is absurd. The bike trail currently has at least 4 tunnels/underpasses that I know of and I have never seen any criminal activity.

Are you saying the bike crossing is safe as it is or do you just not like the cost of the tunnel idea?

What a total waste of money!!! Peoploe don't you know that this "stimulus money" still comes out of our pocket??!!!! We need a tunnel like we need a childrens museum, NOT!!! I guess this would be a place for the criminals to hide in since we won't have enough police officers to catch the criminals!! Boy our city council must be in lala land for all the good they are doing for us. Get out there and vote!!!!

Okay, let's take the whole problem of "cost" out of this equation, and concentrate on safety. Let me know what evidence you have of this particular crossing posing any more of a safety hazard than any other crossing. Look at the crossing on Wright Road. Look at the crossing on Beloit Avenue, and imagine it when GM was in full operation.

lakennedy; Determining a need for something like the bike tunnel and determining how to pay for it are two different items.

Determining need should be based on safety concerns, usage expectations, and impact on traffic flow. Period. How much something costs and finding a way to cover costs are only the next step once the need is confirmed. People basing their "do we need this" opinion on how much something will cost are ignoring the facts that should be analyzed for determining NEED.

Should all taxpayers have an opinion on how much they pay in taxes..absolutley. Should somebody that rarely uses the crossing be listend to about the true NEED for a better crossing..NO.

Who the hell coined the term "shovel ready" that is one of dumber teams I am sick besides "credit crunch"

PS - the Bike Tunnel is shovel ready, because we already paid $80,000 to move utility pipes - so even before anyone decided on this bike tunnel, they decided on it. NOT doing it, would have been a waste of the 80K - but moving forward with it, is ludicrous in the economic state we are in. This just isn't right.

Please tell me, that the BIKE TUNNEL, is NOT the ONLY SHOVEL READY project the City has??? This is part of COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING - but in the plan Council just passed, everything is on hold or not workable! Jvl will miss out because we have spent 2-1/2 years on a plan, with no projects prioritized and ready to go! WOOHOO! How much did we pay that consultant?

It is rip off the cost of build the tunnel. Or waste our taxpayer's money! Shame on City staff for poor plan and design on bike trail that should look for low cost. City Council and Staff think taxpayer love spend like CREDIT CARD!! We Don'TTTTTTT like it! Quit keep spend, spend, spend our money every year!

I understand your point, what I'm trying to say here is that the intentions of the massive stimulus package is to boost the economy. I have a hard time understanding how this project does so. Right now, my opinion is that we need to concentrate on projects that will do just that, to do otherwise is irresponsible. As stated in an earlier post, I would love to see the economic boost we can expect from this project. My family uses the bike trail everyday during the summer, and guess what...we know how to cross a street. I am also quite capable of driving the speed limit and watching for pedestrians. Because of the personal responsiblity I take for myself and my family, I feel that this bike tunnel is a complete waste of federal funds, just as it was if the money had been from our property taxes. I suggest the supporters of this tunnel take personal responsiblity when biking on the trail and while driving. Our community does not "need" a bike tunnel. There are, however, hundreds if not thousands of projects that are worthwhile and could put these funds to good use.
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Realitybytes: Although I do use the trail quite frequently, I do not think my opinion is any more valid than any other taxpayers. See, it isn't just the users who get to pay for this waste. To think otherwise is ridiculous.

no

And if you think FEDERAL money isn't our tax money....THINK AGAIN.

I'm not talking about "maintain"...I'm talkin' about the cost to BUILD it.

Can you afford that? I can't.

lakennedy - It really does not matter what it is called – federal stimulus package versus federal funding versus federal grant – because they all originate from the government and they all, in one fashion or the other, need to be paid for. Quite frankly, if the government is telling me that a portion of MY federal tax dollars will be coming back to MY community to benefit something that my family and every member of this community would be able to utilize, I am all for it. Inserting the word “stimulus” for grant or loan is just a case of semantics and to think otherwise is naïve.

Actually a trail pass that costs $5 or $10 per year is a great idea...if 100% of the money is used to maintain and improve the trail. Get caught without the trail pass and you get a $20 fine. MANY other trail systems require a trail pass to use.

realitybytes wrote "How many of the complainers on this blog actually use the bike trial on a regular basis? I don't mean once a month, but several time a week at different times through out the day. Unless you actually do, then your "opinion" on the need for this tunnel is quite worthless."

Really? If USE is the determining factor, then I'm all for making it a TOLL tunnel.

Are you ready to get on board with that realitybytes? If not, then YOUR "opinion" is quite worthless.

How many of the complainers on this blog actually use the bike trial on a regular basis? I don't mean once a month, but several time a week at different times through out the day. Unless you actually do, then your "opinion" on the need for this tunnel is quite worthless. Complain less; bike more; enjoy the tunnel.

Zoom: The key phrase in your post is: "perceived safety issue."
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justsome1here: I am fully aware of the amount of federal money that went into the creation of the bike trail. What I want to know is, how much of a "stimulus package" should be spent on it? How, exactly, will this be stimulating the economy? If you plan on pointing out the labor that will be used in creating the tunnel, let me know how many will be employed and for how long.

The tunnel was initially proposed because of a perceived safety issue, not as a luxury item.

How about a compromise? Build the roundabout at Milwaukee and Wuthering Hills Drive (a known hazardous intersection), and reduce Milwaukee Street to two lanes east of Wright Road using bike lanes like on North Wright Road. This solves two safety issues (bike crossing and Milwaukee/Wuthering Hills intersection), spends less stimulus money, and keeps some people employed.

Hmm . . . where do all of you people think the money came from to build the trails in the first place? According to city of Janesville website "In 2002, the City extended a 3.5 mile section of the bike trail north and east of the intersection of Ruger Avenue and Greendale Drive. This trail extends east under Wright Road to Wuthering Hills Drive and Youth Sports Complex, and then north within the greenbelt to Sandhill Dr. via USH 14 underpass. Future extension north of the USH 14 underpass to Milton will occur in the future.", which I believe was built with something OTHER than the city of Janesville taxpayer money and "The City has been awarded a 1.1 million dollar grant to extend the trail 1.7 miles from Rockport Park south to Loch Lomond subdivision in 2005." How come no one was complaining about not using federal dollars wisely then? Sounds like apathy -"lack of interest in anything, or the absence of any wish to do anything" until it affects you. If you open your eyes and take a look you will find many things that benefit you that may not benefit somebody else that were paid for by "federal grants/money".

Please, please, find worthy projects to spend the stimulus money on. I can't believe we are not "shovel ready" on other projects. I thought we had experts working on our city's future! Can't we use this for seed money. We have homeless children in every grade and the council thinks the tunnel enhances our quality of life? We need more activist to run as a write in this coming election and vote them in . Don't stand by and do nothing , call this council up and tell them to wake up!

I know the thought of spending any money at all is heresy to some of you cheapskates, but that is the purpose of the stimulus money. I understand the economic argument against the stimulus, but it has already been enacted. If the money isn't spent the way it is intended, you GUARANTEE the stimulus won't work, and we're still in the same slump.

"It doesn't seem like tax money if it's coming from the federal government."

How true. That same line of thinking occurred when the tunnel was first proposed. The supporters were trying to justify the spending because the state was paying a portion. I argued that state funds are also our tax dollars, and the tunnel was unnecessary, considering the then pending closure of GM. Well, that's still true. However, the economy has tanked since then, and a stimulus has been chosen by our elected representatives as the method to stop the bleeding. Cities across the nation are being asked to spend money. Putting the council and city manager in the middle of the debate is unfair.

"Five council members said Monday they’d approve spending $672,000 to build the controversial bike tunnel under East Milwaukee Street if no local property tax money was involved."

You're kidding, right? Who's money is it? It just appeared out of nowhere! Spending $672k, OF ANYONE'S MONEY, for a bike tunnel is ok? Since when! Where do the council members think that money came from, A TREE?! Oh, now I understand, it came from the Federal Government. Perhaps someone ought to explain to the city council how the Federal Government GETS their money. If the taxpayers of Janesville don't believe its worth spending THEIR MONEY for the tunnel why then is it ok to spend ANY MONEY for the tunnel. Isn't Federal money actually our tax dollars? Are not we, the taxpayers ultimately footing the bill for this tunnel? What kind of idiots believe, that since the money is there we might as well spend it on whatever we happen to have "shovel ready". These are the people we have controlling our tax dollars?! The thought process behind this decision clearly lacks any form of logical reasoning. It's absolutely asinine to spend money just because it's available. Even my 14 year old has figured that out!

Now this will certainly stimulate the Janesville economy and bring more jobs to Janesville! OMG

Wouldn't this be sort of like AIG taking bonuses? Taxpayer money being used for recreational purposes?

Why don't they just paint that stretch of Milwaukee into two lanes like Wright Rd? It would be safer crossing 2 lanes instead of four at the crossing and it would be safer at Wuthering Hills with only two lanes. Paint is way cheaper than a bike tunnel.
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As for the flashing light, I use it and I see a lot of others use it. I have seen close calls and I think something needs to be done at that crossing. But the tunnel is too expensive when there are cheaper solutions and a lot more NEEDS in this community.

My mistake: I meant Wahoo and Wtp.

ledzep77 & wtp: If you think this is a "need" then I suggest you keep on fundraising for it. I think the level of money already earned speaks volumes to the amount of people who agree that this is a "need." I do not think it is. I do wish you luck though.

Just for the sake of discussion, I wonder how many "jobs" the bike tunnel construction would create.
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I also wonder how many more bike trail users would come to Janesville if it were constructed? See, I haven't heard one biker say: "Oh, well, I would come to Janesville if only they'd have constructed that bike tunnel. I just won't risk it now."
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I agree with wtp, just last Sunday my wife and drove our stepson and his friend to Delavan to use their skatepark, and while they skated we went to lunch and my wife did some shopping at their kohel's store. That money would have stayed here in Janesville if we only had a skatepark and with the weather being nice, we will be taking him over to Whitewater to skate and have dinner there, again money that could have stayed here.
Janesville is missing the target by not building a skatepark.
And about Steeber and spending tax dollars, I heard he had his office redone with our money, ask him about the carpet and new paint.

Skatepark? Let's stick to the topic at hand. But, I'd like to comment on how sick and twisted I find your use of the word "need" to be, wtp. Right now, as far as "needs" go, a skatepark is pretty low on the list.

If Janesville wants to spend there money, lets spend it on something that makes more sense. We still don't have a skate park for kids to use it one on one. There is no other activity other then organized sports which you can only play when there is a game or practice. BMX biking and skateboarding does not need a group of kids to have fun. Janesville lost the skating rink which was a one on one activity. Skate park is not a waste of money. Every city around us has a BMX and skate park. They could see the value it had for there kids and young adults. Parents of kids and grand kids contact your council member and let them know Janesville needs a skate park

Janesvillian, who cares if it is spent somewhere else. Being a part of the problem isn't going to help us find a solution.

Perhaps the city council should consider applying for federal money to pay for a tunnel at each crossing, regardless of traffic flow, on the bike trail. There is as much evidence (if not more)of a safety hazard everywhere, as no one has been injured here.
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The very mindset that our city manager has in regards to this issue is not only troubling, it is reflective of the attitude that has landed our economy in shambles.
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I'd also like to point out that the real issue at stake here is unsafe driving and unsafe biking. Personal responsiblity, or lack there of, is what needs to be addressed seemingly at every level of our society. Putting in this bike tunnel is a big step in the wrong direction.
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I'm also disgusted with the lack of leadership shown here by both Steeber and Brunner. Not only have they lost my vote, they've inspired me to campaign against them.

Put up a sign like we see for deer crossings or snowmobile crossings. Then it is up to the rider to use caution when proceeding. That I would guess should cost about $100.00 bucks. End of story.

Pizza: I like your idea!

I'll just tell my children to have fun paying for this.

PORK that's what wrong with this country. How nice for Janesville to spend money on things that they can't afford, as long as SOMEONE ELSE pays for it! No wonder we're in this mess.

If they are that concerned about the dangers of people crossing there, why dont they put up rail road type arms that would drop down when someone hits the button. It could be done at a fraction of the cost.

I am tempted to run with all the idiots at the helm. I think some of the people posting on this blog have more intelligence than the people wasting government and local tax money Just because they are are the council doesn't mean they any smarter then the average person. Intelligence is not a political need.Take a good look at this country and get a clue. IMO

Way to STIMULATE our local economy.
Creating jobs for who, a crew of shovel leaners, who'll stretch the job out for two years? After that, no jobs, just an amusing way to cross the street.
What we need to do with this money is build a business, that entertains, creates jobs, educates, and makes money.
Wake up people, in times like these it's about what we NEED, not about what SOME people WANT!

You people realize the stimulus money is already allocated? If Janesville refuses its share, it will simply be spent someplace else.
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The necessity of deficit spending is something that most economists agree on. Debt "for future generations" is offset by what we get for our investment -- like a bike tunnel that will be used for 50 years, contributing to the quality of life in this community that we value so highly.

We don't need a tunnel.

I ride that stretch almost everyday, and I don't mind crossing that intersection, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER INTERSECTION.

But take out the lights...the trail users get a false sense of security, and believe that the cars are paying attention to the road.

That false sense of security is what causes the close calls.

Use the money for a police officer to sit at that crossing and ticket both drivers and pedestrians/bikers until people learn how to utilize it correctly. Another idea ... use the money to clear old buildings from county property near the jail. Expand the land used in that area for community gardens and hire people to help teach and work those gardens. Let the public have the fresh vegetables via food pantries. Use funding to hire people to run playground programs this summer, build and monitor a skateboard park, clean out the swimming area at Lions Beach, etc.

tell me what is wrong with these whimpy beople that think they need a tunnel in the first place. Are these the people that have to take thier fat @$$ child to school every day instead of walking; are these the people that think the Gov should hold thier hand every time they want to cross a street. I guess we deserve what we get!

Gandalf - this is Janesville. Common sense, unfortunatly, is not something there is an over-abundance of here. Drivers don't care about pedestrians and bicyclists and the bicyclists and pedestrians think they automatically have the right to go as soon as they approach the crossing. The most wasted money in Janesville is the flashing light at that crossing. Nobody uses it. You would think nobody was ever taught the correct way to cross a street. It would be nice if drivers could spare 10 seconds to stop once in awhile for the people that are trying to cross the correct way. It's never going to happen. Too many people think they they are the only one that matters ("I don't need to stop for that walker", or "That car needs to stop for ME".) Until that changes, people are at risk at that crossing.

This is a no win situation. If Janesville taxpayers show responsible behavior and reject federal funding for projects considered wasteful or unecessary, that money will go to similar projects somewhere else in the country (or perhaps outside of the country) and we will still have to foot the bill. This is a fundamental flaw with federal financing. What improvements could be made to the system that would address this flaw?

Like I said in my previous post. Start sending these type of message to our counsel members.

Sure a bike tunnel might be great if everyone had jobs to buy a bike and ride one. like others have said why not improve our roads and fix our infrastructure. tear down plighted buildings so new ones have be build to house businesses. I have never seen a more retarded counsel then the current ones besides Bill T.

I am tempted to run with all the idiots at the helm. I think some of the people posting on this blog have more intelligence than the people wasting government and local tax money on stupid project like a ___ing bike tunnel

gandalf:
regarding roundabouts -- you are dead wrong.
they are indeed a fad and will get ripped up and replaced in 20.
everyone will say, "wtf were we thinking."
it's a european idea that city planners suddenly think is cool.
additionally, at every roundabout, have you noticed how many street signs are required.
it's sign pollution.

government thinktanks say roundabouts are good, increase safety, could save the life of just one child and ultimately produce less pollution (there you go - lib talking points).

'users' think otherwise.
it's a four step process. (1) Slow down to 15-25 MPH when entering. (2) Let vehicles already circulating go ahead. (3) Obey ALL one way signs. (4) Watch for pedestrians, bicyclists, emergency and large vehicles.

OR
wait for the light to turn green and go.
i do not live in london.
i do not live in sydney.
lights work.
save the money (and the aggravation).
and cost less.

That lead sentence in the story says a lot about what is wrong with the mindset of the majority of people in this country.

Think how much food could go to a food pantry for the cost of that tunnel...

wahoo_35, you're wrong if you think roundabouts are a 'fad'. It's a great solution for the Milwaukee St./Wuthering Hills intersection.

The tunnel is not needed. There is plenty of visibility at the trail-crossing, and the combination of drivers yielding and trail users using common sense is the best solution. The tunnel cost is exhorbitant and an unnecessary public expense.

Since Steeber likes to spend money, why not after the tunnel is done, start on the children's museum, then the water park, then the ice arena and when those are done give the remaning money to GM as good faith money.
Or instead of a tunnel, what about putting in a round-about? But I think the city is over that fad.

if janesville needs to build a tunnel, put it under randall ave at craig h.s. people using the trail are doing it at their leisure. let them wait until traffic clears.

Have you seen the condition our roads are in? Look at the equipment we use. Our mechanics are so far behind because the trucks in our fleet are so old. This money would buy 6 new plow trucks or could be used for other equipment desperately needed for our operation.

By the way I would use the bike trail if I could get my stolen bikes back. Now a new officer might help with that.

I think what most here are failing to understand is that we can't pick and choose what this money goes towards. Sure, it would be better spent on schools or whatever, but if it is not used on this project, it will go to some other project nowhere near Janesville. If your big complaint is that we're spending tax money on something that only a small population of Janesville, you have to realize if the money isn't spent here, it will be spent somewhere else where it will benefit NO ONE in Janesville.

That kind of money at this time is not a good decision and yes it would be nice to have a bike tunnel but not now with the economy where it is at. It may create a job or 2 but it will most likely be done by a contractor already having a job IMO I don't think it will create any new job for anyone else. they might be able to use the money to buy land from the farmers for future growth in the area.JK

Start email and calling or email you local goverment. Its time the people take a stand agent wasteful spending here you go.

no one here is going to make a difference if you complain here instead of complaining here

http://www.ci.janesville.wi.us/Dept_Deta...

In my own opinion nobody has the right to coplain if they do nothing about it

Hey people..if we don't spend money, we don't create jobs so keep your heads in the sand and keep dreaming that if we all pinch our pennies and save save save it will be o.k. It won't. The tax stimulus is designed to CREATE JOBS. Building a bike tunnel, creates work. Hiring another police officer, creates work. Build the bike tunnel, or do whatever. But we need to spend money right now. It's the only way to turn things around. Create demand for goods, people get jobs to produce the goods, people get paid, people have money to spend, people buy goods which creates demand for goods and the cycle starts all over.
So get out and spend some money.

Yuk! What a waste. The "logical" thought process used by the council and city manager does not reflect well on our city. I had such high hopes for the new manager; I guess he's one of "them" already. Please vote for someone other than Steeber - time and time again I can't figure out where he is coming from.

Besides, what percentage of the population will benefit from the tunnel? Yipee, our own "bridge to nowhere." The police officers would provide a greater benefit to the general public.

more of the "what do we need vs. what do we want." here is a good use for the money. how about putting it toward computers for the school. gee, that would make too much sense. why not just do a study and use the money for the study so the study can recomend a 3 million dollar bike path upgrade. it is a joke. the city concil spendaholics are a joke. time to rebel. gazetterooster@gmail.com

Not tax money The fed is the people we pay taxes and fees that is how the fed gets their money.
Anyone know which way Truman went on this?

To "pack" I agree, people should learn how to cross the street by themselves, that must mean you're one of those drivers that know's how to yield to a pedestrian/bike rider then when they are present. ??

I dont think so, we will have a say about that beleive it, it is still our money. Yes Iam a biker at 84 and use the trails but I dont need a tunnel.We need another police officer before that tunnel.....

Will we be able to live in the bike tunnel after we've lost our homes?

TAX DAY IS EVERY DAY
FOR 5 MONTHS EACH YEAR

That's 267% more months 'working for government' than it used to be.

The government taxes you when you earn it, taxes you when you save it, taxes you when you invest it, taxes you when you spend it, and, when you die, they tax what's left over. What did they leave out?

5.3 months working for taxes is 43% of a year. In 1776 Thomas Paine argued that if a king demanded 50% in taxes, we wouldn't pay it. We are nearly there.

Quit your harping about the City Council!! I do not think ANY of you who often criticize the council for every move they make are part of this team. Remember to exercise your right to vote in the April elections if you think this council is "so bad".......We have a voting process that elects these leaders for our community, USE IT or ZIP IT! Everyone on this council does a remarkable job. I pay taxes, we might as well get used to the government spending every tax dollar possible, for a long, long time...........The money trees keep growing!

This is a prime example of why this country is going down the tubes. It's "free Federal money". I'm surprised they didn't mention how the tunnel will facilitate traffic to the bar at the Ice Arena.
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If they want a useful project to spend money on, how about moving the Rock County 4-H Fairgrounds from it's current location out to the old county farm on Highway 14. That would provide local construction jobs at the new site and cleanup/rehab options at the current location and do something useful at the same time.

If the money had been spent up front for the tunnel, I don't think there would be as much outrage about the dollar amount. There are several other tunnels associated with the bike path and people are not complaining about those. The tunnel should have been put in when the bike path was established. Build the thing already.

Duh !! This is still funded by tax money - how stupid do they think we are? Does Russ Steeber think that 'not putting it on the (local) tax rolls' makes it free?? There are a LOT of other things that Janesville NEEDS, versus WANTS. If you want to apply for stimulus money, use it for a NEED. Better yet, don't apply for what you don't NEED, to not burden those who will pay it back.

I agree wit Odell. Why LOOK for ways to spend money if it isn't needed. What a waste. Let someone have it who needs it. I think police are more of a priority than a tunnel. Bout time people leaned how to cross a street by themselves.

I feel so sorry for the upcoming generations. We totally screwed the environment and now were going to leave them with this huge dept. But at least they’ll have a tunnel to bike through or perhaps live in.

It's tax money no matter how you look at it. If the council wants it that bad, let them pay for it them selves

Eric Levitt, city manager should be fired for being part of the problem. A greedy bureaucrat. Unnecessary spending always hits somewhere, and it's usually the taxpayer whether it's local, state, or federal. If you don't NEED the money, you should pass it up and perhaps another community could use it for police, fire, or other infrastructure.

If I had a say I would vote for two more policemen or the water tower. But the waste of tax dollars is a big part of the economy crisis. I don't think any of these things are must have needs for our community