madman1961 & carlitosway...

I look forward to your response to my questions.

Addressing your earlier statement,
"I don't agree with certain choices people make but it is "their right"."

I think we all agree that a person should be free to choose what he/she wants to do in life as long as their decisions DO NOT AFFECT ANYBODY ELSE!!
The effects of an abortion can be no greater...the loss of life of another human being.

Do you believe the fetus is not a human being?
There are 3 answers...

NO. The fetus is not a human being. The discussion ends here and you should NEVER expect a charge of murder or manslaughter against someone stopping the pregnancy of you, your daughter, or any other female friend or relative.
If you DO expect a murder charge, now you're saying the baby IS a human being, you are not being consistent and you lose all credibility.

YES. The fetus IS a human being.
How can you justify one person (the mother) taking away the life of another person (the baby) simply because she wants to??!
Someone needs to protect the rights of the baby, especially since this human being cannot defend himself.
Where do you stand when it comes to the choice of the baby?

NOT SURE. If you're not sure whether the fetus is a human being or not, then, unless there is overriding evidence it is not a human being, you play it safe and keep that human being on this earth until you figure this out.

More simply put...
Follow the "Golden Rule". Put yourself in the baby's position. How would you like to be treated?

Oh, and don't bother bringing up the "what if I was raped" scenario. I'll give you this. No need to debate it. I'm more concerned with saving the lives of the millions of other innocent children.

madman: If you are not pro-life you are the other, not taking a stand is taking a stand. Also I would not presume to condemn you to hell, the bible states that clear enough. Even if you don't believe in God that is just like the above comment, Not taking a stand....
Your not believing in God does not make it so,as you unfortunatly will find out. I hope you would look in scripture and see the truth. God is the author of life and I pray that you would see that also. Their is a Saviour who came to give you life, he died for you and for me. Please consider looking into it.

nellie...

...you are making two assumtions here...

The first is that someone that isn't anti-abortion is, by default, anti-life. The are not the same thing, whether your narrow mind will admit it to yourself or not.

The second thing that you are assuming is that there is a god. Some of us don't agree. HOWEVER, that being said, I will defend your right to believe in your god even as you would condemn me to your hell for not believing in your god.

Have a good night.

Amen.

You can explain it away all you want but in both cases, punch in the gut or abortion, the result is the same: a babylost it's life. If one is prosecuted , so should the other. It's murder no matter how you explain it away. If it make you feel better, those of you who are anti-life, let yourselves get all warm and fuzzy over it being a supposed womens right to choose death. But in the end you will answer to a higher authority for it. May God have mercy on your soul!

displacedworker- I am not saying anything for or against abortion- I am just saying that the story doesn't imply that the child was the 20-year-old's. My stance on abortion issues doesn't even come into play here.

Well I do have a uterus, does that mean my opinion counts? Last I checked women AND men give life to a child, can you have a baby without a man? we're just the incubators so to say. Men should be responsible but where's the girls responsibility, doesn't sound like they should have any in your writing. 50/50 sounds fair to me. I do agree with what you said about not just one person gets in the predicament themselves. No ones saying this man shouldn't be charged, what's being said is whats the difference if the man hurts this "fetus" (BABY) but when a woman hurts/kills the "fetus" (BABY) it's okay?AND the fact that the child was in utero changes nothing when a woman kills it EITHER. If it's wrong for one it's wrong for ALL. You don't tell a daughter they can hit your son and tell your son never to hit your daughter do you? double standard possibly?

Unless you have a uterus and are able to give life to a child, you should keep your opinion to yourself. Gentlemen, if you have a problem with abortion perhaps you should start volunteering and training young men to be more responsible. These women are not getting in this predicament by themselves. As for this man, if someone (man or woman) punched my belly while there was a baby in it, I would do everything I could to prosecute him. If he were to beat the infant out of the womb to kill it, we would all think he should be prosecuted; the fact that the child was still in utero changes nothing.

Let me get this straight. Its only legal if a doctor kills it? I thought it was just a fetus. How can he be charged for attepmted homicide if its nothing more that a clump of cells (sarcasm implied) Gotta love the democratic party and their double standards!

Wisconsin has a Fetal Homicide Law. We remember Laci and Conner Peterson out in California.

Yep, its only murder if the child is "wanted".
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How absolutely convoluted can things possibly be???

I agree that this "man" should be prosecuted for assault on this woman. The part I find interesting is that this D.A. is attempting to extend legal protections to this child by charging this reprobate with attempted homicide of this 14 week old inviable tissue mass, the unborn child. Would these charges have to be dropped should this woman now decide to buy an abortion as this unborn child is legally disposable at her discretion? After all, if she now decides to dispose of it, how can a court then conclude that this man is guilty of a crime against this unborn child when all he has done is attempting to do exactly what the mother has legally chosen to do?

The difference between this case and abortion is the woman did not want to lose her child. She was 'attacked,' she did not go to the clinic to have her child 'suck outta her' (which sounds disgusting by the way) The article has nothing to do with abortion. And I love how so many people are concerned with the woman and her child. Not one person said anything, at least that I saw. Everyone is wrapped up in abortion. Abortion is an option women have, get over it. If one woman wants to use it as birth control that is her right, if another woman doesn't want to use it and possibly die trying to carry her child to term that's her choice. This woman did not choose to have her child beaten while it was still inside her.

Personally, I think this loser should be charged with attempted murder of the woman. Hitting a pregnant woman in the stomach can cause life-threatening bleeding. As for "life", I think it begins with the beginning of cross-cortex brain waves (26-27 weeks). The fetus is viable outside the womb at this stage and is "alive" by my standard of having a functioning brain. I think the same standards should be used to determine life at both ends of the spectrum, if you are "brain dead", then you are not alive. (Just my opinion and no time for debate today) :)

lakennedy- I just said that...

Fetal rights, a slippery slope with so many implications. One example: You can be charged with murder if your baby is stillborn and you refused a c-section. A hospital can get a court order to force you to have a c-section if they think the baby is too big (happened to a woman (Amber Marlo) who went to another hospital and had the baby just fine).
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http://madvilletimes.blogspot.com/2008/1...
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http://video.aol.com/video-detail/aborti...

I may be wrong here, and correct me if I am, but does it say anywhere that this fetus is also the perpetrators? The article refers to the fetus as "his girlfriends fetus." I think a lot of us on this thread are assuming that he is the father, and I don't see any evidence supporting that.

that is horrible really if he wanted nothing to do with the baby all he had to do is walk away. i don't think this is at all the same as a woman having an abortion. this was a violent attempt to kill a baby out of anger and rage

Sorry, as harsh as this may sound, if you allow "Freedom of Choice" then you cannot charge this idiot with harming the fetus. Your trying to set a double standard. Now I would suggest you give him to the Lynch mob take him to towne square... I'll leave the rest to your imagination.

A lot of you seem to be assuming that this was his child. The first line in the story states: "A Watertown man was ordered jailed Friday pending formal charges that he tried to kill his girlfriend’s fetus by punching her in the stomach during an argument." "...his girlfriend's fetus..." -not his fetus. Now then, displacedworker, your statement: "yea how can he get charged with attempted homocide when thousands of women kill fetus's everyday on purpose with no charge???" is moot. It is attempted murder!

Her body, her choice.
Madman1961, I completely agree with everything you've said.

But if a woman is "cold" enough to have her fetus killed, how can you trust her with raising that child?

worldlove...

...my only reason for the "are you an OB/GYN" comments are that YOU brought up late term abortions.

As to the rest of what I said, I'm sorry you have known women that use it as birth control...as I said, I haven't and that is all I said.

As for prevention, I'm all for it...MUCH better that way. I would love to see that no one EVER felt the need to have an abortion...now all we need to do is get people to actually USE the pill/shot/condom/whatever it takes.

Oh, and get the idiot in Rome to at least not say that condoms are the REASON that so many people in Africa have AIDS. And can we get some people to stop equating talking about birth control as being the same thing as approving of kids having sex? If we can get past THAT little mental stumbling block, maybe we can actually teach our children how to NOT get pregnant.

Oh...and yes...make it worthwhile for drug companies to figure out an effective male birth control.

I'm pretty sure this woman didn't want to kill her baby. The MAN started punching her. It was not her choice. I hope that the woman is okay and that the child will be okay and if not the man pay for ALL the medical bills for this child for the rest of its life. If the woman did not miscarry. This is a horrible thing to happen to any woman and then to be pregnant just tops it all. I hope she can recover well and she makes this man pay for what he has done.

Anyone who mouths off as being anti-choice should be forced to sign a contract to help finance the medical costs of bringing the fetus to full adulthood - medical, child support, post-secondary education, they would be taxed to support them all.
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Anyone who mouths off as being pro-abortion should be forced to sign a contract to help finance the medical costs of abortions and for mandatory birth control education for all children from the age of 5 to 18, as well as as being taxed to provide free contraception devices and medication to anyone under the age of 18 who requests it.
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Anyone smart enough to keep their mouth shut on the subject is probably smart enough to double-up on the birth control methods until both parties agree to have a child.
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The remaining minority are probably like me, ugly enough that birth control isn't an issue.

YOU may not have seen any cases where women use abortion as birth control but I have, for example one girl said she didn't want her baby "unless it was a girl" then she'd keep it,the girls you know might not be cold like this but the world isn't all beautiful and good. I'm not saying there isn't any reasons for abortions i.e. rape, death to the mother, etc. but look at the percentages of woman who DO have abortions and their reasons behind them. The arguement that I'm not a doctor is a little stupid, what does me knowing the difference between right and wrong have anything to do with being a doctor? In most cases ob's ask you if there is something wrong with the baby would I want to keep it or abort it, if I were to say abort it they would test in the first trimester so late term abortion wouldn't be done, ask any woman whos been pregnant that's what happens. Not to mention last I knew it took TWO to make a baby and the fact that only the mother has the right to choose is assinine, I know of a couple of guys who wanted to KEEP the baby but the mom has all the rights and aborted anyway, mom's can sign their rights over to the dad's instead of aborting, or did you ever think of how many people WANT kids but can't have them? When it comes down to it, to all their own make whatever decision you want after all who am I to judge right? women will have to answer to a higher power. On the end note IF you don't want a baby (excluding rape) PREVENT it, birth control, shot, 5 year thing they stick up you,spermicide, and whatever else they have these days, OR take a pill and stick it between your legs! I just think it's funny when a woman is killing a human it's a "fetus" that's not human yet but when a man tries to kill a human it's ACTUALLY a human. Why is there a difference?

The law contradicts itself. It is either a human being with the right to life or it isn't. It seems ridiculous to say it is a viable life in one instance and in another instance it is not... which ever way you look at it murder or abortion stops a beating heart, END OF STORY!!

No, Crazcass, it's not the "end of story"...it's just the end of how you and some others see the story.

I've got an idea for the anti-choice folks out there...when YOU are faced with needing to decide about whether to abort or not, YOU make the choice and I'll support your decision.

And at the same time, if someone decides to abort, let it go, because it's not YOUR decision to make.

Oh, and when I say "you" I mean the woman that would be going though the abortion, NOT anyone that is, shall we say, suffering from testosterone poisoning? Oh, and that includes me.

Worldlove...are you a doctor? And even more importantly, are you an OB/GYN? No? Neither am I...so I try not to tell those that ARE doctors how to do their job. I can not think of any reason why an abortion would need to be done that late in the term, but the DOCTOR involved might.

So, again I ask...are YOU an OB/GYN?

I've made this point bafore...I'll make it again, hopefully this time it'll sink in...I've NEVER in my life heard of a woman that uses abortion as birth control. I've also NEVER heard of a woman that, upon finding out she is pregnant, saying to herself, "Oh, well...I guess I'll just go down to the clinic and get the abortion at 9:00am then I'll still have the rest of the day."

I've known four women that have had abortions and in not one case was it the first choice for them. And for 2 of them, it was a result of rape. Are you saying that someone that is pregnant as a result of rape should be forced to carry a baby to term? Or worse...as one poster said on this sight a few months ago, that she should consider it a "special gift from god"?

So...let's get back to the topic of the article, shall we?

I don't know why his name isn't in the article...I'd have thought that it should be.

I'd also like to know if there are any other charges being filed against him. And maybe against her...we just don't know what was going on.

The child in the womb (the "fetus") is given innocents by the courts because the child ("fetus") cannot protect him or her self from the man that is punching the stomach.

Abortion is when a woman goes into a clinic and has a child ("fetus") sucked out of the womb. The child cannot protect its self. Where is its protection by the courts?

No matter how you look at it, it’s still the same. A child is just as much a live today as it was yesterday, last week, or last month. Life begins when sperm enters egg.

End of Story

Again, what is this guy's name? Public record, eh? I wouldn't want my daughter, sister, mother dating this idiot that thinks he can get away with a crime. It is bad enough that he hit her (I don't know, maybe she started hitting him first?), but he is trying to kill a child! He the fetus was already born, he'd be taken in for child abuse.

I have seen woman charged with using while pregnant. Also have seen them put in a facility until the child is born and then the child placed in foster care until she proves herself to be clean and have appropriate parenting classes and structured home visits with CPS.

There is a big difference in a woman choosing to give up a fetus and a person trying to kill the fetus. I don't agree with certain choices people make but it is "their right". It is not his right to try and kill the fetus against her will. In doing so he could have also killed her. Just My Opinion.

displaced worker: exactly! I don't agree with what this man did nor do I agree with what woman do EVERYDAY. Mickie is right as well. What this man did was wrong he punched a 14 week pregnant woman yet women can SUCTION out there babies at 23 or 24 weeks? HYPOCRISY at it's finest. here's a blog I ran into and although I may not agree with everything this guy says, he's got a VERY good point on this issue. sorry if you can't click on it don't know how to do that: )

http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/abortio...

It's about time that a fetus is recognized as a person. That's the only way they can call it homicide without being hypocritcal.

How come the suspect's name was not stated? Public knowledge, public records.

More to this story than meets the eye. I would bet a fist full of dollars she told him to take a hike and see you in court for my child support.
What a stupid man for losing his temper and life.
Hope jail is a better alternative than 27%.

Billnewbie- abortion is chosen by the mother, not forced upon her. That is ridiculous that you would say that.

In many of these cases, abortion supporters protest criminal charges leveled against such perpetrators based on the harm caused or attempted against the unborn child, particularly one this young as abortion providers routinely exterminate them on a daily basis. After all, if one is going to claim such a child as being nothing more than an inviable tissue mass, to try to protect it under such terms as the D.A. in Jefferson has could set a difficult legal precedent as well as a moral contradiction in the minds of the public.

I guess the charges for assaulting her are unimportant; we only care about the fetus apparently.

Wonder why you dont see these types of charges with women pregnant doing crack, heroin etc..

If you don't want the kid, leave her - Don't come back. DUMB DUMB DUMB

Charming.