My husband has an uncle who is lableled "disabled" because he weighs 300lbs! so he gets everything from the state,food stamps, ins, everything that we WORK for. instead of making him do something to lose the weight he gets to sit on his rear and collect! He also smokes! his daughter now also lives off the system and has a couple kids out of wedlock and also collects! How is that fair????

hannah I know what you mean! I have relatives who pop one kid after another just so they can get state funded benefits and not have to work. They do it on purpose! and I know a guy who is on state aid and he went to the er because he had a migraine and sat there for 8 hours! Now I would have to just take an aspirin or excedrin if I had one because I can't afford an er visit! We have a high deductible ins. and a health saving account for dr. visits. we never meet our deductible so it's always out of our pockets! I don't want my money going for these lazy people who won't work!

hannah; how was I to know that from what you wrote?!
Of course he still could be doing this to his own ins. co. Its still a claim against his home owners insurance - no matter who it is that gets hurt.

hannah; your last example of the twisted ankle probably had more to do with the fact he could sue whomevers property he was on & needed to inflate the incident for dramatic purposes. Just my opinion. This is why we need TORT reform now.

I'm sorry but no one else should be able to take what I work very hard to EARN! If you want insurance buy it, don't expect everyone else to provide it for you. I pay dearly for my insurance and I shouldn't have to cover anyone else outside my family.There is an adage: you don't work you don't eat. and while I know times are hard,you can even get insurance if you worked at McDonalds.

janesvillemom - Badgercare is a primary reason Wisconsin has a $2B budget deficit.

We had to take medicare

WE had to take medacare as senior's

NVgrf I doubt you have read the plan if you did it would scare the living crap out of you... But maybe the plan is designed to have that laxative effect. The plan is thousands of pages of ill-thought rhetoric. No one has even started to address issues that will come if the passes, health care providers that shut their doors, the forced unionization of all health care workers, the forced stoppage of care to those with terminal conditions, and the euthanasia of those with serious birth defects. It is all there if you read it all. Scare tactics, no, just the truth. and Sarah I just don't want to pay for someones pre-existing condition that they caused for themselves. Now let's all go to Famous Daves!

Just remember nothing is FREE

Most of us senior's work'ed all our live's paid taxe'es for every thing we get from the gov. now. It's those peaple young & old that never would pay up or still won't pay up but want every thing hand'ed to them that are the sucking every thing dry.

Why isn't this part of the article here as it was in the AP story I read elsewhere?
"Gov. Jim Doyle attributes Wisconsin's better rate to expansion of the state's BadgerCare health insurance program and to a high percentage of companies offering health insurance to workers."
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Badgercare IS a PUBLIC OPTION! And it has helped Wisconsin to have one of the highest rates of insured people in the country. Wisconsin also has one of the lowest average costs for health insurance.

NVgrl: Yes I've read it. I formed my own opinions. It will help no one in the long run.
Health care in This country needs to be updated not uprooted.

From national uninsured percentages, we can extrapolate for WI:
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2% are invincibles - choose not to pay for insurance
3% are undocumented immigrants
2% are those that qualify for Medicaid, but haven't signed up yet
2% are those between jobs or with preexisting conditions, those truly in need. This group should receive a government health insurance card that will pay for coverage as long as necessary.

Why can't we all just get along?

The proposal says that employers can continue to offer coverage or face an 8% of their payroll fine.
I don't know a small business owner out there that pays less than 8% to offer coverage. That means, that if the small business owner chooses the fine, he/she is saving money.
I'm all for healthcare reform. Just not like this.

I just hope we have enough money to pay for care for all of us. My relatives in Canada are examples of what happens if there is not enough money to pay for care. My cousin's wife is not getting treatment for MS and waits months for an appointment. My uncle had lymphoma at age 65 and received no treatment. Another cousin has a granddaughter 18 months with a serious heart defect and she has waited 8 months for surgery and still no date for the needed life saving treatment. If they can afford it they can come to the USA but it won't be available in a few years. I hear that if you have the money you can buy treatment in India that is excellent.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/...
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Here is Paul Ryan's bill. Does anyone support it? It would take everyone's employer paid insurance away and start over with a totally private market paid for with tax credits. It would actually save us $ since we pay for our own insurance now on the private market without the tax credit.

Pete----the Obamaplan costs far less than health care now is costing everyone. Bush tax cuts which helped the top 3%, Iraq war paid for on credit and gifting wall street with big Bush bailouts----thats your demise

If you think this is about health care read parts of the bill: Buried in Title II, Part 3, Subtitle D of the bill is the requirement that the HHS panel that will set standards for health care employment must have union (read SEIU, the biggest health industry union) representation.

The bill also ties big piles of grant money to unionization. In Title V, Subtitle D, which funds grants for nurse training, the bill limits eligibility for funding to employers that “provides wages and benefits to its nurses…that have been collectively bargained with a labor organization.” Its all about Obama paying back his supporters and increasing their strengh. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Have some here even bothered to read the plan, or do they just continue to believe the right wing scare tactics?

Janesvillemom - My post is directed at seniors who are against health care reform because they want big government out of the health care business. I agree with them and am simply pointing out that those same seniors must also want an end to Medicaid, Medicare and Badger Care. If seniors are so vocal about wanting an end to government run health care then they should stop bleeding the US treasury dry by enjoying expensive medical procedures at the expense of taxpayers via Medicare. Either reasonably priced, universal health care should be available to all or alternatively to none. If one is against any kind of government run health care then stop using Medicare, Medicade and Badger Care or keep your mouth shut about not wanting health care reform. You can't have it both ways.

What nobody seems to understand is that the US healthcare system spends 50% more per person than any other country, rarely achieving substantially better health outcomes or longevity. We're doing it wrong.
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That 50% waste will pay for a lot of uninsured people.

tiredofhearingit - First of all Reinvention and Reform are the same thing. They both start and end in the same place, as they are editing tools to revise initial plans. Neither private sector or government plan are the answer but at the current moment the government plan is a plan and at the current moment something needs to be implemented.

pete--- your ability to make something out of nothing is amazing. One thing is certain and that is that if nothing is done to reform healthcare the 9% will eventually grow to 99% uninsured in WI

The waste in Medicare comes from PRIVATE COMPANIES ripping off the system. When they are caught, the head of the company resigns and gets a job working from the insurance industry fighting health care reform. Look-up Thomas A. Scully

pete;sounds good - lets go

supermom; OMG! - this is like beating a dead horse. Where does it end?
Reform NOT Reinvention - EVERYTHING in proposed Hcare can be achieved w/o letting the gov't take it over. Do it w/o the strings attached. Using your logic, should we also provide higher education for all - or how about food - should that be provided as well?
This is nothing more than a power grab. IF its only going to cost $900B as Obama said last night & we are going to get that from the "waste" in Medicare/aid - I have 2 questions 1. Is this NOT an admission that Gov't plans are full of waste? what going to make this any different from any other program ran by the Gov't? 2.Why not take that $900B and put into the private sector & let the Gov't stay out of it? - Is it possible they want control of it & every aspect of our lives? This is ridiculous!

Mikki-It is no different than the 13-17-year-olds who are getting pregnant and their parents insurance do not offer maternity benefits for dependents. They are directed to apply for medical assistance as well.

Red, don't forget the VA and Tri-Care (active military). We wouldn't want the government in those either.
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Seriously, every government health care plan we already have is better liked than most private plans. Ask any senior if they want to give up their Medicare and shop the private market. Other countries with universal coverage are much happier with their care than most Americans, and they spend significantly LESS. The current bills are not enough, we need an overhaul, not a band-aid.

here we go again with the toughy feely thing again

We pays taxes for the schools, police, fire protection, snow plowing..etc. While we're at it, let's get rid of those. Why should we pay taxes to protect others, or put out fires at houses that are not ours? Does health reform sound stupid now?

I think we should insist that our representatives--both state and federal should get the health care plan that is the public one offered by President Obama. That would assure a good plan but we couldn't afford it as taxpayers.
What to do???

jvl4life, they ALSO get the state to pay for the birth of their babies, so the babies can become citizens, and reap the public assistance benefits for their parents.

Pete said, "Most people do not find the Government the answer to their problems. But they know the Government is a problem." So Pete clearly the answer is to get government out of health care. Elimante Medicaid, Medicare and while we're at it, Badger Care. I agree, let's get the govenment out of health care.

Employers are already dropping insurance coverage and the poverty rate is climbing

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/us/11p...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...
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Very interesting movie about healthcare around the world, pros and cons. Not as biased as Sicko which only showed the bad of the US and the good of the other countries.

Undocumented aliens (a.k.a. illegal aliens) only have access to State coverage for emergency services only and not full blown coverage that some of you think. Many pay upfront for their services in full. Those with insurance seem to think that paying $20 for an office co-pay at the time of visit is ridiculous. Be thankful of the coverage you do have. Healthcare, unfortunately is a business. You don't see people going into a grocery store, load up with groceries, and then get checked out and tell the cashier, can you bill me? I don't think so.

totellthetruth: What does someone with a pre-existing condition being allowed to have insurance have to do with "pulling their own weight"? This public option doesn't mean the insurance coverage will be free. I also support the proposal to require all of us to have coverage or face penalties. In order to do that, however, coverage has to be available to everyone.

In other news 13% of Janesvillians cannot afford to eat nightly at Famous Dave's. Let's just all chip in a little more to get them something else that non-contributors don't deserve.

Now that you are thinking that I am out of line on this comment, I work very hard and for most of my life I have worked 2 and even 3 jobs to support my family and pay for my schooling. I would go without before I would let my family go without. But I am not about to let my family go without because somebody else doesn't want to carry thier weight.

Hey Red, I've been paying INTO the Social Security plan for the past 35 years. I expect a little something back when (and if) I ever retire.

I want the same plan that our legislators get.

End big government run health care NOW! Demand the government elimate Medicare. We can't afford it. Next - elimate Social Security. Want to end socialism now. Then demand your elected officials eliminate Medicare and Social Security.

Sara; lets do some math - no one will be forced to switch but consider the reality.
IF an employer provides hc they can "keep" it. Or they can goto the p option for 8% of payroll. ok here: an employee makes 80k means they need to expend $6400 on annual insurance or less to be cost effective for the employer - thats the 8%. Now consider a co that has lower wages. Lets use $12 per hr. this is approx $24k @ 8% they would need to find insurance for less than $1,920 ANNUALLY or they can "choose" to put employees on the "public option". So your version of "keeping their current plan" is correct but NOT reality. Over time - we will ALL be "forced" into this plan. As time goes on more & more employers will take the p option which will be less members on private insurance plans thus they will have to raise rates until its only affordable to the very rich & ALL the rest of us are on the p option. In the end - No, we werent "forced" by what the plan says but rather by what it does.

Employers can change or drop insurance anytime they wish----it happened to me. Try getting info from the insurance companies if you are not "authorized by your employer" --- they won't tell you anything, even if you are paying 100% of the premium. Policy still belongs to the employer, not eh employee

sannio--- that's the way it is now

Pete---Check your facts. It's 91% of Democrats who support Obama's plan, not 91% losing insurance.

SarahB - OBAMA: "Nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have."

THE FACTS: That's correct, as far as it goes. But neither can the plan guarantee that people can keep their current coverage. Employers sponsor coverage for most families, and they'd be free to change their health plans in ways that workers may not like, or drop insurance altogether. The Congressional Budget Office analyzed the health care bill written by House Democrats and said that by 2016 some 3 million people who now have employer-based care would lose it because their employers would decide to stop offering it.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090910/ap_o...

Pete: No one will lose their present plans. Please read the proposal.

We Wisconsinites will subsidize 46 other states with higher uninsured rates. Does the 489,000 include illegal aliens?