To add to what grandys so eloquently expressed, being paid solely based on your merits is at first scary but ultimately liberating. Great post grandys...hats off.

You have no problem negotiating higher pay/benefits during an up time? State workers negotiated--oh, forget it. The bottom line is employers have taken advantage of the less-than-competent, and convinced them that working harder/longer for less pay and benefits is in their best interest; as such, the workers have begun to eat their own, while employers just posted their highest quarterly gains EVER, while sitting on over 3 TRILLION dollars in cash. Keep arguing on their behalf, leg/gran.

The naivete continues with you PJ. If you believe this new education plan is no new money, you are being duped. There is no way they will lower their levy's. Even if they did why should taxpayers give up the credit with the false promise levies will go down? By the way, media are always on board for more spending so citing "media support" is well humorous. Like buying a product because celebrities endorse it.

OMG. Read very slowly, legendre.

Evers' plan moves the school levy tax credit (which does not support schools) into the school aid formula. It isn't new money, it is moved into a different account. His plan also MAINTAINS the local school levy revenue limits. So, since schools cannot raise their limits, but are provided the money from the school levy tax credit directly, THEY will LOWER their tax levy...the have to in order to stay under the revenue limits.

His plan also does not call for a billion extra dollars. That is nonsense, and if you read the plan completely, instead of being a MacIver puppet, you'd know that. It does call for a small increase in the aid, about $420 million over the two year biennium, which would bring school aid BACK to the level they were before being cut in the current biennium. It is a matter of priorites--you can pay for schools now, or spend exponentially more later in the Dept. of Corrections, etc. Go to FairfundingforourFuture.org to see all the news outlets and BIPARTISAN politicians that have come out in support of Evers' plan--which is only the first step in overhauling the school funding system in Wisconsin.

And a 747 in your yard? You'd never get the J-ville city council to approve that. Oh, and state employees are cool.

You figured out how removing a tax credit is not a tax hike yet? Or how Ever's education plan comes up with a billion extra dollars with no increase in taxes yet? You must still be working on that.

I'd be much happier if I had my own 747 in my yard, but that would be a stupid idea just like the train. HA!

Boy you dusted me PJ

By you dusted me PJ.

Greenst, kudos to you for your comments. I agree.

By the way, you won't win a blog argument vs. legendre, nor I suspect vs. grandys618. They will alway have a response, no matter how irrelevant to the topic.

Best way to survive is to ignore them on here. Let them be in their respective worlds. Our community is (could be) a much happier place--especially if we had a train, legendre!

HA!

I feel that the state employees have handled picking up more of the cost of their benefits well. The majority of them understand that the state is in trouble. You do not see job actions of state employees or hem taking to the street. They know the reality of it all. It is not until people like you will find on blogs start to attack them for just going to work. The majority of them are honest hard working tax payer. They care about the services they provide the residents of this state and do not want to see state resources wasted and do their best to prevent waste. But when people come after them like there is blood in the water and basically accuse them of being a debt to society I don't blame them for getting upset. FYI, as for them bargaining their wages and benefit cost. They always start bargaining after the state budget has passed. This means the Gov. and both houses have already determined what they will get. If no money is set aside in the state budget they get no money. All their bargaining does is clean up language and lets them determine to what group the money if any goes. Unless the state has set it aside for a certain group.

Our state finances are a disaster. Regardless of how our economy got this way, state workers are going to have to accept paying for more of their healthcare and likely all of their retirement in the future. We can go on and on all day about what ought to be or what's right and good but reality is our state is over spent. I personally want everybody making lots of money because then everybody is happy and sunshine is everywhere. That is not reality. So yes, difficult changes are coming. Oh, the revolution you talk of? I'll be ready.

I hope Walker does a better job of ridding Wisconsin of Tommy Thompsons cancerous $2.4 Billion debt.

Will Walker cut the pay and benefits of his appointed leaders?

How is this a sign that state emplyees are immune? They have taken a 3.25% pay cut(furlough), no riase in four years, increased their contributions to both pension and health care. It sounds to me that they are feeling the downtrun too.

When the economy is doing well, I have no problems with public employees doing better as well. This idea that somehow they should be immune to a downturn in the economy because "they get paid so much less" is disingenuous at best. Most public employees believe people in the private sector were all making boatloads of cash and that is simply not true. Most people were chugging along getting single digit raises or no raise as you mention. Not many private sector people were cashin' in like you believe.

So state employees do not pay taxes or live with in their means? These employees pay wisconsin state income tax as you and I at the same rate of 4.6% to 7.75%. True it is their employeer that can not, not the the employee. The employees did not cause the deficit. You could eliminate them all and it would still not fix the budget.

legendre... When the economy was doing well the best raise state employee got was .01 to 2% to keep their benefits. I didn't hear your concerns about the people that work for us when the private sector was getting good raises, profit sharing and bonuses.

"Race to the bottom" occurs because of the free market economy. I didn't hear you concerned about taxpayers when your union was negotiating cadillac health insurance and higher pay when the economy was doing well? A "race to the top" if you will. Well, these are the ups and downs of the free market economy which you my friend are not immune to.

Why didn't we go for those state job? Because unlike those folks that go for state jobs "we" realize there is no sure thing and nothing lasts forever regardless if you bargained for it or not. The economy is interconnected so when the economy as a whole suffers, everybody will share the suffering. My job has nothing to do with manufacturing but my pay is down substantially this year because everybody else is hurting. Why are public employees special and exempt from this?

grandys and other haters...If people in the "real world" like you have it so bad. Why didn't you apply for one of those great state jobs? Its funny how we used to want to pull everyone up in this country. Now its a race to the bottom with this " if I don't get it nobody should" attitude. Not the "they get, it so would like it also" this country used to have.

Recent public employee compensation studies:

http://www.epi.org/page/-/pdf/bp276.pdf

http://tinyurl.com/3x2pudn

http://tinyurl.com/25w4q3b

It is public information as to what state employees are paid, hence if you google salaries for state employees you will find the pay for all state employees. It is not true that state employees make less than a public employee. It is about time that a state employee pay their own retirement and contribute to their healthcare benefits just like the rest of us. We all know why people take jobs with the state..good pay great bennies easy job!! It is time that we have a leader that will force accountability and cut the fluff

the free market economy sucks eh prof?

legend--I suspect your Google searches are perspectives on what the actual stats say. Unfortunately for state workers--who negotiated lower salaries to maintain these benefits--it is this misinformed commentary that everyone is listening to. The Bureau of Labor Statistics' recent study did seemingly show public employee salary/benefits exceeding the private sector. HOWEVER--That study was roundly (and properly) criticized because it included the drastically higher number of recently added minimum wage jobs. That drastically reduced the 'averages' for the private sector, which then, by comparison, made public sector employees look like 'the haves' (as the guv elect calls them). IF you measure jobs by duties/skills/education required, the private sector roundly outstrips the public sector employment. And for those of you wanting to join the race to the bottom--the ones who only want to be thankful they have a job--Congrats! With that attitude, you have employers right where they want you.

Can we finally lay to rest this tired old argument that government workers get paid less? In recent times we have had numerous reports showing this is not true. Public sector workers continue to push this argument and it simply is not true. Go do the research yourself if you don't believe me. All it takes is a simple google search to find the truth.

These changes in benefits are being negotiated by the Doyle Administration, not Walker's.

@cynical~ My dad is a civilian employee for the Dept of Defense. He pays for part of his health insurance and also pays into his pension, it is similair to a 401K plan, but with the government. What is the big deal? Just because congress doesn't pay for theirs doesn't mean the rest of the federal employees don't pay.

This is the kind of leadership we voted for and I for one am glad to see someone with the ability to make cuts that are not always popular.

Walker needs to understand that people who work for the UW willingly accept lower wages because of the benefit package(health care, retirement,vacation). We are already paid well below our peers, plus are forced to take unpaid furloughs. Attacking our benefits will drive the most qualified workers out of state.

intheloop, Thanks, I really appreciate the information. I did not consider your points at all. The first place my mind went was a pencil pusher in Madison.

Frusion- The reason state/county and other govt. employees have decent pensions is two-fold. First is that govt. jobs tend to pay less than public sector jobs, so to help attract and not lose qualified employees the pension was created as it is. The second reason entails why some can retire earlier with a full pension, this mainly applies to police officers and firefighters. They are allowed to retire earlier because to be quite honest who thinks its a good idea or wants a 62+ year old police officer showing up and possibly having to fight someone to place them under arrest. On the same note who thinks a 62+ year old firefighter should be running in a burning building and trying to carry out some 300+ lb person. If the public wants take get rid of these pension benefits then the pay would need to be changed to be more in line with the public sector or you are going to end up with a bunch of less qualified people as your govt. workers.

Finally. Why should state workers get those benefits for free? Pay for them like everyone else. Same goes for federal workers including congress who by the way get FREE GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE!

Do state workers have an entitlement to better benefits than the public sector? My workplace has been raising the contribution to benefits year by year and I think that is the norm across the country. Someone tell me how this is unfair to state workers.