Here, so far just in this blog post are your reasons.

1. You state that unions have agreed to economic concessions but they want to keep collective bargaining rights. -- Agreeing to these concessions limits collective bargaining, the same thing you say you're fighting for. So which is it?

2. You want to protect seniority, sick days, vacation time, working conditions, and etc. -- How do you think other government employees without bargaining rights work? They, other state and federal employees, still maintain all of these things you claim to want to fight for, so how exactly does this benefit you if you kept something but gained nothing from it?

3. Protect prep time, limit staff development, and determine how students’ time is divided between subjects. -- All of these are administrative decision that should be made by local boards voted for and supported by local people; they should not be decided just by employed staff.

4. You somehow think the tea party and the evil Koch brothers are behind it all. -- Simply indefensible.

5. You had questions on military pensions but where strangely silent on if they we all answered.

Did I miss anything or are still playing games of ignoring people again?

Lol. Once again, what a joke.

Who could forget this great gem http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piPkgAUo...

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php...

You can find the evil brothers listed 83rd, behind 20 different unions.

http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Coll...

"Now, I AM done with this. By the way, I never would have responded again if you hadn't have left the condescending "lol". But that's pretty much your mo."
-
lol

I can see you are a person that stands behind your word. If you have problems with a video produced by the heritage foundation at least attempt to debate what you think is false, as far as all your posts on koch go none of those dispute the video at all; please keep digging.

Oh yes, if you don't like a news story done by a local greenbay station based on their affiliation you have more problems than just keeping your word.

Oops! I forgot one! Why is collective bargaining important?
http://www.ehow.com/i/#article_7958760

Shall I go on? See, anyone can find articles, websites, or polls to back up their opinion & views. Most of us understand that. Why don't you? Just remember that before you question my sources, you remember that you posted something from the Heritage Foundation...such a good source for fair, balanced, and factual data. But, of course you'll argue that it is all of those things.

How did the Koch brothers help Walker get elected?
http://westorlandonews.com/2011/02/21/ho...

Another Walker/Koch brothers' connection?
http://m.host.madison.com/mobile/news/lo...

Walker's done this before to "help" with the budget:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=fOOW_lSbA...

After going to the link in the previous post, tap on "Rick Unger" to get to the latest Rassmussen poll.

Governor failing? Latest poll:
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/http:/...

Let's try that again:
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/0...

Koch brothers' connection:
blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/18/koch-brothers-behind-wisconsin-effort-to-kill-public-unions/

Koch brothers' connection:
http://www.wisdems.org/news/press/view/2...

A video from the Heritage Foundation? I thought you were about the facts & nothing but the facts. What a joke! Your credibility is completely gone now as far as I'm concerned. Propaganda at it's best! Surprised you haven't posted anything from Fox News. Wait a minute. You have posted things from local Fox channels. Where's the one with the palm trees in the back of protesters? You'd attack someone in a heartbeat who posted something from msnnbc or a liberal journalist. You're a hypocrite & not nearly as informed as you pretend to be. Well, informed in a conservative, biased way, I guess.

Just as I expected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyxuUjgHk...

Here, so far just in this blog post are your reasons.

1. You state that unions have agreed to economic concessions but they want to keep collective bargaining rights. -- Agreeing to these concessions limits collective bargaining, the same thing you say you're fighting for. So which is it?

2. You want to protect seniority, sick days, vacation time, working conditions, and etc. -- How do you think other government employees without bargaining rights work? They, other state and federal employees, still maintain all of these things you claim to want to fight for, so how exactly does this benefit you if you kept something but gained nothing from it?

3. Protect prep time, limit staff development, and determine how students’ time is divided between subjects. -- All of these are administrative decision that should be made by local boards voted for and supported by local people; they should not be decided just by employed staff.

4. You somehow think the tea party and the evil Koch brothers are behind it all. -- Simply indefensible.

5. You had questions on military pensions but where strangely silent on if they we all answered.

Did I miss anything or are still playing games of ignoring people again?

I already told you the reasons it's important. Short memory, eh? You don't agree with those reasons (big surprise) but they're reasons why employees don't want to lose their collective bargaining rights, nontheless. Now, I AM done with this. By the way, I never would have responded again if you hadn't have left the condescending "lol". But that's pretty much your mo.

As I suspected.

lol

Are you now ready to discuss collective bargaining, for public employees, without other distractions and false information?

Are you now talking to me? Make up your mind are done or do you want to discuss issues, this undecided nature mixed with points irrelevant to the debate are perplexing.

If you want to discuss a military pension let’s do that, honestly; something you have neglected to do on collective bargaining. The scaling of 50-75 percent is from congressional set pay scales of base pay only. This base pay is a portion of income, not all income. Unlike this state’s pension formula that computes ALL income for the highest 3 years to compute its pension the military only uses base pay. Missing from this formula is additional pay that can range as little $12,000 to over $30,000 per year. All this information is available to view. Elected representatives vote, and write law, to set all pay scales. Do you have other questions on this or does this clear up any unknowns you have on this issue? http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/military...

Lol! I know. What was really funny tonight was when I was talking to a guy who was in the service for 10 years & he told me about how when you retire @20 years, you get half of your salary for the rest of your life. He then went on to point out that if you wait until 30 years to retire, you get half your salary until it increases each year until you get the full salary that you retired on. Now, this was completely from him, so if it's incorrect, you'll have to ask him for his references, which surely you'll challenge. If it is true, I can totally understand why you are so fiscally conservative with the tax payers money. Let me just add a "lol" to that.

lol

No, they're weak and non-issues to you. They're also false analogies and conclusions to you. I've read plenty of articles connecting the Koch brothers and the Tea Party to Walker and to what's happening in our state. Simple as that. These have formed my views, in addition to the ones that I already had about the various issues, collective bargaining being one. Your posts give the impression that everything you read is the sole truth, and anyone else's opinion based on what they've read and researched is dense, ignorant, and misguided just because you don't agree with it. Once again, I stated that you don't have to agree with me, and I don't expect you to. I'm not going to change your mind and you're definitely not going to change mine. We have to agree to disagree. Now, I'm done with this. Please leave me alone.

Is that the same brothers who have provided less money and political influence in this debate than the unions? The problem with grasping at straws is it leaves facts untouched. Feel free to have a position just don't try to justify it by using false analogies and conclusions. You are against giving up collective bargaining, I can respect that without agreeing with you. But the reasons, so far, you listed to justify it are weak or non-issues.

His entire campaign was that he was going to create 250,000 jobs in Wisconsin. Apparently you only listen to what Fox news and the republicans tell you!

I do not have a misguided conception because I'm not saying they're connected. I'm just saying that it annoys me that the rich and corporations are getting tax breaks while @the same time there is a huge cut to education. You don't have to agree. That's just how I feel. I also feel that this is all a part of the Tea Party's/Koch brothers' agenda. One more time, you don't have to agree. I don't expect you to. We just have to agree to disagree.

Bealab the tea party has nothing to do with cuts in funding. The current budget was bloated with 1 billion extra in taxes and ~800 million more in stimulus funding yet still has a deficit that needs to be closed by fiscal year end. The stimulus money was a one time funding source, it is not available for the next bi-annual; as such spending (funding) must be cut.

Your misguided conception that tax cuts to others are part of the reason is a false assumption.

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2011/0...

For those of you in the private sector who don't think union rights affect your job or pay maybe you should think again.

thekai - I'll try to keep that in mind. Thanks.

RAF - I do grasp how the system works, especially the new "Tea Party" system in which the rich are given tax breaks while public education is cut by 900 million dollars. Even after your response, I don't think you fully grasp why collective bargaining is so important to public employees. Once again, it's about so much more than just salary & benefits. Regarding your support of public employees, I apologize for assuming that you don't support them. Responding to their posts with terms such as "dense" & "ignorant" when their beliefs, although different than yours, are still as strong, led me to believe otherwise. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

So how what would that conversation between Fitzgerald and the head of the state patrol sound like? - Daddy, those nice people over there won't let me stab them in the back, will you arrest them for me? with force if you have to. Oh and daddy, will you tell them they have to do what I want cause I say so.

Bealab,
RAF has very strong view points, but try not to let everyone else's opinion blend in with RAFs. He is supporting this bill on principle, and tries hard to separate the emotions from the facts. I don't agree with RAF either, but he is being honest when he says he doesn't attack the character of public workers.

RAF,
Don't get so defensive and call someone ignorant just because they confuse you for one of the ignorant dolts who are supporting Walker. You are one in... probably hundreds who I have talked to, who has successfully separated the emotion from the facts. You are just very rare. I would suggest getting used to people not clearly realizing your full intentions, and just kindly reminding them that you are not like the mindless masses of Walker Sheeple.

Yes the daddy of the two fitz. brothers was appointed by walker to head up the state troopers.. Nice to have kids in high places..

“Perhaps you just have a chip on your shoulder because when you were in the Air Force you didn't have a say in anything regarding those things. I don't know. I truly respect the service you gave to our country, but definitely don't respect your views regarding public employees - especially because at one time you were one. Don't get that all.”
-
That is one of the most ignorant statements I have read on these pages in a while. I never disparaged any employee. I have constantly questioned money spent by government. What you fail to grasp is the system and how it works should be questioned, at all levels of government. If you are so thin skinned to think if “your” process is questioned that you are personally being attacked perhaps you need to re-think the debate.

Bealab those are a few fair reasons for some collective bargaining in some respect, though I do demand the local administrators elected by the voters in the specific district to run the schools not just collective bargaining. I also think these could be reasoned with a school board without having it placed in contract form.

With good there is much bad, across many contracts, with collective bargaining. Why do some districts need to waste money purchasing health insurance from a union owned company?

Collective bargaining requires two opposing sides, with one side always supporting the tax payer. Seeing the story today on the madison mayor shows how often the tax payer is not represented enough during some of these contracts.

Regarding education, collective bargaining helps to protect teachers' prep time to prepare for lessons, limits excessive staff development (new teachers @one time were expected to complete 80 additional hours), and helps determine how much music, physical education, and art students participate in while attending elementary school. These are just a FEW of the many items that collective bargaining helps to protect. So, please do not think that public employees simply want collective bargaining for negotiating salary and benefits. It goes much deeper than that.

"teachers protection from violent students."
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There are laws for this, bargaining is not needed.

RAF - It seems to me that you're the dense one. The collective bargaining rights that unions are trying to protect have to do with seniority, sick days, vacation time, working conditions, etc. Is that clear enough for you? I don't know. Perhaps you just have a chip on your shoulder because when you were in the Air Force you didn't have a say in anything regarding those things. I don't know. I truly respect the service you gave to our country, but definitely don't respect your views regarding public employees - especially because at one time you were one. Don't get that all.

http://www.wisn.com/news/26792106/detail...

Yeah, I was right. Appointed by Scott Walker

Isn't Fitzgeralds dad the head of the state patrol? Seems to be a conflict of interest there.

RAF- There is a difference. The concessions have been made and rejected. If you read the budget proposal, it says AT LEAST 12.6% up to 30% for insurance. That is where the collective bargaining will come to play. It also gives ability to police to get bullet-proof vests, firemen better communication systems, teachers protection from violent students. It isn't all about pay or benefits.

"After all unions have agreed to his economic concessions. All they want is to keep collective bargaining rights."
-
If they agree to limits on retirement and healthcare that is also agreeing to limited collective bargaining....the dense can't grasp simple topics.

No copying privileges or parking spaces for their aides, pick up your paycheck in your desk, $100 per day fines, & now this. No, Walker's not a snake! To think all he would have to do is sit down & discuss a compromise. After all unions have agreed to his economic concessions. All they want is to keep collective bargaining rights. No. This isn't about busting unions at all!

browneyes,
First of all, I was drawing attention to the fact that comments such as "so and so needs to do their job" do not accomplish much. Apparently you were so focused on talking points you missed the premise, though.

Since you want to continue down that road: it is funny that you assume the 14 democrats are only representing a meaningless fraction of their district (yet apparently intend to refute that Walker is only representing a fraction of his). Tim Cullen represents us, and I am confident a significant portion of his district does not like what Governor Walker is doing right now. As for the other 13 Democrats? I honestly couldn't say one way or the other, but I am willing to bet that after last election's slaughter, considering they still have their seats, a significant portion of their district's constituents also approve of what they are doing. On the other side, several polls of Wisconsin voters have been conducted in recent days, and they all indicate that Governor Walker is not accurately representing a large portion of his district (that would be all citizens of Wisconsin). It is very curious, the way you view things in certain light, with such hatred.

Walker is not trying to do his job. He's trying to screw the state of Wisconsin.

just another move that proves that the us is a police ran state, "don't mess with us or we'll call the cops"

gogreen- Must make them feel like "real" men to threaten the use of force against a pregnant woman and an eighty plus year old man.

Browneyes- The protesters were given 2 letters of thanks from the Police Departments in Madison. There is also some rather interesting reading here on the status of our capitol.
http://blog.preservationnation.org/2011/...
Oh, and as far as the crisis you keep mentioning- according to the state it's self, the actual trigger for a fiscal crisis/emergency is $188 million- we didn't hit that with $167 million. Just sayin'

Vatoloco ... ¿Por lo menos tiene una tarjeta verde?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4M8022Ts...

Governor Walker IS TRYING to do his job. He needs his awol senators to return to Wisconsin and DO THEIR JOB. Then the State of Wisconsin can move forward and our Governor can do what he was elected to do; particularly to fix the state budget crisis. Someone has to be accountable and take care of the debt! The last governor didn't do anything about the crisis. And here we are today: in a crisis. Moneys raided from the transportation fund and the Tobacco settlement was taking from Peter to pay Paul. Can't people see that! The awol senators are representing only a fraction of their constituents. They need to come home. Their absence is a distraction from running the state. And, look at the mess the protestors have done to our the capitol building. The clean up, repainting the building will cost millions. Not to mention the grounds around the Capitol. It is time to move on and run the state government as it should be: with all senate and assembly leaders present.

heidi: i actually wouldnt be surprised by any of your positions cuz im not gonna label you and assume certain positions based on my own labeling:)

gmaof3,
The Democrats are doing their job, and their workmanship is excellent. We could play this game on both sides. Why won't Walker do what he was elected to do, and be the leader of ALL of Wisconsin, not just those who he agrees with or voted for him? Walker, DO YOUR JOB! YOU WERE ELECTED FOR A REASON!

Do we get anywhere talking like that? No. I'm not trying to dictate what you can and can't say, but you certainly can't be expected to be taken seriously if you're going to do the name calling thing. Even if you don't think the Democrats are doing their job, the people who voted for the Democrats do. Accept the fact that you just don't like -how- they are doing their job, just like we don't like -how- Walker is doing his job.

Well if they want to call union people "thugs" and then send someone after the democrats to bring them back with or without force I would have to say someone here may be a hypocrite. With that said this union thug isn't to sure he want to continue to be polite.

Here's the dealeo... they were voted into office to DO A JOB. The fact that the dems don't agree with the party that won the election, is holding the capital ransom. This is WRONG on SOOOOOO many levels. Put your "big boy panties" on and show up for the job you were hired to do!

With or without force...who are the thugs now?

Kid, Sorry if I offended you, you would probably be surprised at my positions on things as well. We may have to get together some day, I think it would be an interesting conversation.

So they've been found guilty without a trial?

For all of you people, who don’t think public employees need a union, ask a Town of Beloit police officer. How are the civil protection laws working for them?

i dont label myself anything. feel free to label me liberal if you like, but with that label im confident you would be extremely surprised at several of my positions. if you notice...i didnt actually call you a 'big fat dummy head':), i was just saying that if i was to start a lie that would be one i might start with. youre preconcieved thoughts on me, a lieing liberal unable to converse, are just as insulting and lead me to believe that you wouldnt actually be interested in having a two way convo as much as you would like to tell me what you believe and ignore any valid point i make. at the risk of sounding like a 12 year old...you called me a liar before i thought about calling you a big fat dummy head. seriously, when do you u wanna smoke a bowl and discuss future not name calling??

RIGHT WING BLOGS have been calling for readers to come to madison to make trouble...

You can see Scott walker in handcuffs here. http://rocknetroots.blogspot.com/2011/02...

As far as your second comment, I do have to agree, it is a waste.

Kid,
I realize that you are a liberal and cannot comprehend having a discussion without resorting to name calling. But, back to the point. Public workers have historically received lower pay in exchange for better benefits. In the last 10 years or so, they have caught up and sometimes passed the private sector for equivalent employment. Now that we are all equal, we as taxpayers would like them to pay a small portion for the very good benefits that they have. We are not asking them to change the benefits, only to chip in for them. We also want to eliminate the collective bargaining so that we aren't in this same situation a few years from now. Why is this so hard to liberals to comprehend? You act like we are taking you job away, why didn't everyone protest like this when Gilman, GM, Lear, Parker Pen and Beloit Corp closed and laid off all the workers. Those people lost everything, not just a few hundred dollars. I agree that it is an inconvenience, but at least they have a good paying job.

Calling Barney Fife. I say this calls for action and now. Nip it in the bud. Why don't we go up to the old people's home and wax the steps?

i would definitely be down for that fattie though...my treat if you were serious. actually it would probably be a bowl since im a weed snob and the quality stuff is totally overkill in fattie form.

And the comedy show continues.

ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR?? if i was gonna spread a lie i would start with the fact that you are a big fat dummy head. that may actually be the truth though so i wouldnt be blatantly starting a lie. if you want to make up words, or read into my posts thats fine too but it definitely leads me to believe that i wouldnt actually be starting a lie as much as informing people of your character. did i say they were underpaid?? nope. not even close. did they, or did they not, take lesser income for better benefits??

After reading some of these posts the last couple weeks I can finally say I truly understand why some mothers eat their young! I seriously think some people need to revisit the golden rule and learn how to act in public. This is a public forum. I honestly believe that a majority of the people posting these inflamatory statements would hesitate doing so if not behind the cover of their computer screen. Some people need to grow up.

Kid,
Quit trying to spread the lie that teachers are underpaid. If you would like I can get the pay scale for the local districts, we can smoke a fattie and look at what they actually make. Wages are on par with Engineers in this area and the Engineers have to pay for a share of their benefits. We are only asking for the public employees to pay 2/3 of what the rest of us pay.

*One reason the Democrats did not pass health care reform as is was because unlike most Republicans, Democrats are not mindless drones. *

You're correct about that--some of the corrupt D's had to be bribed to vote for the bill with sweetheart deals for their own states/districts.

Not that it matters, because the whole thing is soon going to history via the courts.

It's time for the democrats to start carrying guns on their hips like the Tea Party people.

*Walker will be forming his own Sturmabteilung soon. *

SEIU already beat him to it...except the shirts weren't brown.

But James Troupis, a private attorney hired by Fitzgerald, argued Thursday that the move is legal, because the state Constitution allows each house to "compel the attendance of absent members," the Wisconsin State Journal reported

*Maybe President Obama should send out the troops to guard the border.*

Except that would violate posse comitatus act.

well said Cubbie!!

Article IV, §15
Exemption from arrest and civil process. Section 15. Members of the legislature shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest; nor shall they be subject to any civil process, during the session of the legislature, nor for fifteen days next before the commencement and after the termination of each session.

Enough, is enough! No more Republicans, No more Democrats, or Tea Partys. When all partys say they are working for the public, they are lying! for are voices are not heard, only the partys voices are. You mean to tell me these partys all think on the same side, no concious involved, why are all votes on the same sidelines as their partys, you mean to tell me they don't have a differance with-in their own party! It's time for us to be heard, think for yourself, vote with your concious, Don't you know how SICK we are with your fighting, and immature bickering. You tell are young to stop bulling, to be thoughful, and care for one another. It's time you take responsibilty for your actions! grow-up, and take a stand, make-up your own mind! Be a leader not a follower. We the people are not being heard, on any subject, or debates, It's time for you all to think for yourselves!!!

'So, I guess you can tax the corporate profits and not as much will be paid out or you can pay out more and continue to tax the recipient. I don't think it would be a good idea to do both, do you?'

teachers took less in wages to get better benefits. now we're asking them to take benefit concessions. i guess its a good idea to do both to the worker but heaven forbid we ask corporations to double dip

DDR...Thats the ticket add more division, that is just what the doctor ordered.

Source: UniteAndState

Nationally we are experiencing nearly 10% in unemployment. Meanwhile we are well above 20% in underemployed. Governor Walker likes to brag that Wisconsin beats the national average by a good 6 percentage points. I personally don't believe his math and its hard to believe that Wisconsin has only 3% unemployed. Is he trying to tell us with this proposal that the state of Wisconsin can manage to lose jobs because they are doing so well with unemployment. Shouldn't everyone deserve to work, he has a clear agenda and wants to destroy the Public sector. I think he hopes he can become some conservative savior and propel other states to adopt similar policies. The middle class built this country and the middle class is the Public sector Governor. We can't keep given in to corporate interests or else we will no longer have a middle class.

Read more: http://www.uniteandstate.com/column/90/g...... /

I heard it on his radio show today.

There is an election on April 5th for a Supreme Court Judge. If Kloppenburg (D) wins, the Wisconsin Supreme Court will be tilted left.

This will give WI Dems a fighting chance during challenges to any of Walker's shenanigans.

dumbledorf - I couldn't agree more and from what I am hearing in the community, many Republicans and Independents are feeling the same way. When we all begin to take our government more seriously is when we will get out of the mess. We can start with the State Supreme court election coming up next month. Hope everyone pays attention and watches where the money is coming from and will vote accordingly as to the direction they want our state government to go. I know it is supposed ot be non-partisan but it is not unfortunately.

The only point I see to any of this fiasco is that maybe it's time for the American public to wake up and take elections more seriously. Educate yourself and vote.....wish more dems would have taken this vote more seriously...

Westorbust,
Thanks for the info on Federal taxes, but I was actually interested in State taxes. So it would seem to me that you would like to tax the corporations profits and then also tax the shareholders and employees when the dividends or profit sharing is distributed? I know that these groups are taxed heavily already. So, I guess you can tax the corporate profits and not as much will be paid out or you can pay out more and continue to tax the recipient. I don't think it would be a good idea to do both, do you?

Dennis, very good call man. We all should just go work for the state. The state could support that right genius? You're going to need to pay off some more of your union bosses because the end to this situation is coming soon and the state taxpayers will finally get what's coming to them...we get to keep our paychecks.

Apparently, Walker and the legislature are serious about passing the bill to start repairing this states dire fiscal situation. Were the fugitive 14 planning on staying in Illinois for four years until the next election, grinding the entire democratic process to a halt. We pay these people to work, not hide and play games.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/02/abr...

" The "don't show up for work" strategy being used by Wisconsin and Indiana Democrats to deny Republicans a quorom is nothing compared to what Abraham Lincoln did to stop a vote in the Illinois legislature in 1840.

On December 5, 1840, Democrats "proposed an early adjournment, knowing this would bring a speedy end to the State Bank. The Whigs tried to counter by leaving the capitol building before the vote, but the doors were locked. That's when Lincoln made his move. He headed for the second story, opened a window and jumped to the ground!""

These forums show why we have elections....you can't convince ANYONE on either side of this issue to change their mind and see why my opinion is better than yours or vise versa....Walker and the Repub's won the Nov. 2nd elections running on balancing the budget , making cuts etc. The next election cycle cast your vote for who or what ideal they stand for....IT'S WHAT MAKES AMERICA GREAT !!!

You post like you think somebody from office is actually reading the Janesville gazette blogs, some folks have posted then reposted and then reposted the very same comments over and over and over again.

all you union bashers are just jealous and need to shut up. If the shoe was on the other foot I'm sure you wouldn't be so against the unions. It's the same thing when GM was here in town. All these self proclaimed know it all morons bashed GM and their wages and being in the union and they were in the "private sector". Now that they are gone you move onto the next victim because it isn't what YOU have. If you don't like your situation, change it. Get a different job and quit whining about "they have everything".

With everyone jumping up and down for what they think is right- that is exactly what is your right to do. The question that I have- What is this collective bargaining taking out of your pocket? What is at risk for your pocket and family's bottom line? Do you think your taxes will go down? Da*n those teachers, and prison guards, and librarians, and crossing guards! They are the enemy! They give what is asked, but da*n them anyway! The unions don't give, they're greedy, they take advantage, yada yada. Can tell you one state contract- No pay raises in 4 years, increased insurance and pension costs, pay decrease of 3.2% due to furloughs- ALL agreed to. That was before this fiasco. Those are just some of the people those AWOL senators are fighting for. They are also fighting for ALL of you so you can have clean drinking water, lakes, streams and rivers not choked with algae and weeds (as examples). Like them, don't- I don't care- don't demonize them- they are doing their jobs in the best way they see possible.

" So it should be easy for you to educate me and tell me what percentage of income does a wealthy person or corporation pay and what do you consider fair? I don't want you to answer if you are going to generalize, I want some facts."

What percentage? How about multi-national and American corps paying ANYTHING in taxes.

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/26/main...

The largest Corporations, and some that received billions in taxpayer bailout cash, paid $0 in taxes. I'll say that again. $0 in Federal income taxes. It's not about wealthy individual paying taxes, it's about the very same corporations and people that brought our entire economy to it's knees blaming Bob and Judy American, or Joe the union guy for our economic woes. We pay, they don't.

Tim Cullen in Handcuffs!! I would pay to see that as well as Mike Sheridan next to him in cuffs!!!

One can only wonder what the comments would have been from the Left had it been 14 Republicans doing what the current 14 Democrat's are doing. I imagine the praise would have been overwhelming.

This would be humorous if not for the resemblance to the way dictatorships operate in countries like Libya. Now the Republicans are passing resolutions that absolutely would NEVER stand up in court. In fact, I think the fourteen senators would have a legal cause of action against the Senate for violation of their constitutional rights if they were detained as a result of this resolution.

The only recourse here is for their constituents to recall them or vote them out of office next round. And I doubt neither would be successful as the majority of people now support them.

cruiser is right here, though. This does not give power to anybody to bring them to Wisconsin - only to detain them if they're in the state. It's not like they're facing extradition from Illinois. It accomplishes nothing but to make the republicans look ever more bullheaded.

"It sounds as if there is as much(if not more) support for Walker to pass this as there is opposition against it."
-
Sounds like you need to broaden your social network. "Among those asked about weakening collective bargaining rights, 56% supported the union and 41% supported the Governor." http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c...

ABOUT TIME!

In this and many other posts I have seen that the liberals keep bringing up the fact that Walker has given huge tax breaks to the wealthy so that they don't pay their fair share of taxes. So it should be easy for you to educate me and tell me what percentage of income does a wealthy person or corporation pay and what do you consider fair? I don't want you to answer if you are going to generalize, I want some facts.

I order the arrest of Walker for impersonating a Governor.

Do any of you liberals ever look at history? The local school boards, local governments, county governments and state government have been trying to negotiate with the unions for over 30 years. The unions have repeatedly refused compromise. It is finally the time to put an end to the useless negotiations and force this upon them because they have refused to be part of the solution.

I'm surprised those calling for the 14 to be arrested can read. They sure hate teachers and education. Acting like a bunch of bratty children. Locking down the capitol building, introducing an anti-crank call law, still taking money from special interests. Who's the real criminal here?

cass:>you said We all know in Wisconsin what FIB represents.

Does this FIB generate revenue for many Wisconsin Taxpayers?

66% of people in this nation SUPPORT the right to collectively bargain. I am a supporter of state employees contributing more to benefits and pension. They have AGREED to do this folks. Walker needs to negotiate or drop this bargaining issue all together.

More 1933 nutsy stuff from the two Scotties!

916WI

It's in the bill, go to http://www.thewheelerreport.com/

Read the bill.

Rizzo.......They don't want him to pass it? It sounds as if there is as much(if not more) support for Walker to pass this as there is opposition against it. Everyone that I know who voted for Walker supports his actions......

This is what happens when you put the loonies in charge. Heaven forbid they find a compromise. Those Dems are doing exactly what they were elected to do, represent their constituents and stand up for what is right.

I really like the concentration camp idea...REALLY...quit the grandstanding

Tetons......Do you have a link to the article that deals with Walker pulling the HC of 50,000 residents? I'm not saying he isn't, but that is something I'd definitely want to read about. Thanks.

This is the most fabulous idea I have heard in a couple weeks

"Walker has every right to pass his bill "as is"--he has the support within the legislature to do it, so why should he water it down?"
-
Because his constituents - the ones he is there to represent - don't want him to. What better reason is there?

Cass- The $165 million that was wanted to be refinanced, and claimed to be a loss for the state would have actually cost the state over $14 million, and would "kick the can" down the road for 10 years. It is actually a loan payment that is due in May.

I heard that it was $200 billion.
That sounds scarier.

I am now holding all these republicans in contempt as well

In principal Bebe- it is the same- he "ran" for what he believed in. He is better? When you believe in something that strongly, you do what you feel you must do to fight for it. Some do it with nasty words and name calling, some leave, some resort to dirty tricks to get their own way, and so on.

bigfish1

if you believe this will balance the budget, your head is underwater. To take away medical care from 50,000 people is going to balance the budget? How is selling the power plant at a no bid sale going to balance the budget. I get it. It's his puppets budget he want to balance, not the State of Wisconsin. All his waling papers need is a stamp.

:)

tetons ????????????? Sarah , Walker has repeatedly stated that he cannot seperate collective bargaining from the bill because it has a part in balancing the budget and involve's financing . I have heard talking heads on T V suggest this weeks ago also....

This should have been a long time ago. You are correct that the time is past for any conversation on this topic. They were hiding away and let that go by with nothing said. No ammendments can be added or wording removed. It is what it is. If they were here throughout the discussions on this topic (like their jobs require), they then would have been able to discuss anything about it and made suggestions for ammendments. All that is left is the vote. I have been saying this for the past week. GET BACK TO WISCONSIN AND DO YOUR JOBS. That is what they get paid for isn't it?

my 3 kids.. according to walker it's just a nice warm shower.. I for one believe him.... NOT...

Bebe- Lincoln "ran" twice to prevent bad laws from being passed..

this scorched earth policy from the walker is not working and the tea baggers are getting desperate.. Come on scooter it's time to come to the table and bargain.. collectively

What is next!?!?!?!?! ... March them into "Concentration Camps"????

bebe53

Are you pround of the factthat walkie talkie created this with his uneducated knowledge. How can you sleep nights knowing whats going on and you supporting it. Tell us how your support works for the sale of the power plant and a no bid sale? Oh yeah, what about the raie he hid in the bill for his puppets?

Tamrlu......At this point they should pass it as stand alone legislation. If this is the only thing keeping the Fat 14 on vacation, they should pass it under whatever pretense they wish. It would easily be justified as the only way to pull the democrats away from the room service and indoor pools and back to their offices........Pass the bill Governor Walker!

916wi,
One reason the Democrats did not pass health care reform as is was because unlike most Republicans, Democrats are not mindless drones. They do not support an issue just because they are told to by a party leader. The effect of the mentality of Democrats allows for Republicans to seek compromise without meeting staunch resistance. The mentality of Republicans on the other hand is to think and act as one. Thus, Scott Walker proposes a bill, and the Republicans agree without question to pass the bill. The effect of the mentality of Republicans is that Democrats have to go to extreme measures if they even want any hope of a compromise. While the work ethic of Republicans does allow for much to be accomplished, it comes at a high price. This is the biggest problem with the Republican party.

Why won't Scott Walker and the Republicans negotiate on this? Any negotiation is better than no negotiation. It has been a long standing US policy not to negotiate with terrorists. Why is that? Because if you let the terrorists get what they want through violence then you are essentially promoting that kind of behavior, and the next time they want something they will do what had been successful in the past. So why is Walker treating the unions like terrorists? Why is Walker treating his own people like terrorists? Why do some people in Wisconsin think this is okay?

Won't happen, cause they can't arrest them over the stateline..just more threats

And will the hoteliers be arrested for harboring fugitives?

bigfish1

walkie talkie will come after you next, hook line and sinker. You've already nibbled at his bait

Sarah- They can't separate it from the bill because that would prove that it isn't about the fiscal balancing as they have demanded it is.
Bebe- I do remember "majority" rules. I also do historical study. I remember the French and Indian War, The Revolutionary War, The War of 1812- shall I continue?

bebe53: Keep telling em' like it is!

SarahB1

The time for amendments on the bill is done, it is ready to be voted on. So, no matter when they return, it will stand as it is.
If that is wrong, and amendments can be added, enlighten me.

Bebe- It's not the Dems that won't negotiate. Have you been sleeping? Why would they come back? Not for or against them, but call it correctly. The governor and his henchmen (especially the Fitzgerald 3some) are not and will not listen to their state that is calling for compromise of any sort. There is plenty of blame to go around.

I agree! About time!

What is "disorderly content?"

AWESOME!!! Bout' time ! Just a way to close the weekend returns to Wisconsin . Now , either they stay away or get hauled in !

kai....Walker has every right to pass his bill "as is"--he has the support within the legislature to do it, so why should he water it down? Any politician in his position would do the same thing. If Obama and Pelosi had enough votes to push their version of HCR though Congress "as is" they would have done it in a heartbeat. Now those same people that supported Obama's legislation while yelling "so sad-too bad" to the Republican "opposition" when they thought they had that vote locked up are now demanding that Walker compromise when it comes to his legislation......They are really coming off as a bunch of hypocrites......

Walker will be forming his own Sturmabteilung soon. He's just waiting for the shipment of brown shirts to arrive.

Scott Fitzgerald needs to get a life

I agree dave, walker needs to be jailed!

Another Example of how our governor is behaving like a dictator. He wants his bill to pass as is, and he knows if the senators continue to block his bill, eventually he will have to negotiate.

Give me a break, instead of doing crap like this they should be working to fix the true problems of the state which is too many cuts to business and wealthy and not enough help for the poor. Pull your heads out of your *****.

Why would Obama get involved? He would come off as a total hypocrite considering the Federal government employees are not unionized at all and Obama has no intention of pushing them in that direction. I just don't understand why Walker just doesn't ignore the vacationing democrats and pass legislation dealing specifically with collective bargaining. Come on Governor Walker--this has gone on long enough--just pass the bill without them!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailybeast/12697...

To bad it has come to this, but they need to do their job (the right way). If they can't come on their own, they have to be "forced" to. I agree with this.

Hmm, DavidG, never thought of that. Maybe some of us "not tough looking guys" should go down and pick them up. Wonder if there's a bounty as well?

YES! ABOUT TIME. They made their point, now get back here. It may hurt now but the longer they stay gone the more it will hurt.

This is something else. Can you imagine the situation somewhere in IL where some tough looking guy tries to haul an awol senator into a car to haul him back to WI. The IL police arrest the tough guy and find out he has immunity by the WI governor. Maybe President Obama should send out the troops to guard the border.

Some jail time and some hefty fines might be appropriate.