Look… I personally know three teachers from the mid Wisconsin area. All have second home or cabins in the area where I live. I see them often and we are friends. Believe me they understand what they do is not bull work. For the Gazette to remove my original post is absolutely without merit.
.
Did you do a financial background on each teacher with a cabin up north? Do any have spouses that make an income? Parents that left an inheritance? Do they work a 2nd job in the summer?
.
I highly doubt, with the costs of cabins up north and the salary of an individual teacher that what you are saying is entirely true.
.
Regarding your first post. It could have remained but perhaps it was removed because of the responses not because of what you posted.
.
I find your opinions ignorant and hate-filled.

Oh My… I offended some of you. It now seems as my own personal character has been questioned. Well here’s my story… graduated H.S. Then worked in a filthy disgusting meat packing plant because neither my parents nor I could afford for me to go to college. After a few years of that I was able to enroll in my local technical school for a trade I knew was not the most exciting or glamorous, and working a full time job simultaneously. Landed a good job and moved up the ladder. Look… I personally know three teachers from the mid Wisconsin area. All have second home or cabins in the area where I live. I see them often and we are friends. Believe me they understand what they do is not bull work. For the Gazette to remove my original post is absolutely without merit. There was no foul language, racist or sexist comments but simply a broad stroke opinion. That offended some of you, and now the Gazette allows you to react with posts negatively commenting about me personally. This will be my last post. See you at the polls…

fear.. You really need to get out and about more and away from your computer as you are becoming obsessive with blogging! Do you take time to sleep and eat and talk to your family? Take a breath!

http://www.wsaw.com/home/headlines/14004...

bebe- as usual you are 100% wrong! I never have called myself ANYTHING, you are the one into using sensationalistic labels and terms for everything and everyone.
Slogans mean very little to me. I examine each issue and make a decision on what I feel is best for the nation/world based on my own personal beliefs. unlike some(you) I dont need an ideological label to justify my beliefs, why? Because they are mine!!
Left leaning, socialistic, liberal, communistic, fascist, American Exceptionalism, union goons, gestapo, libertarian, democrat, repubican, etc...etc... Labels , slogans , and fearmongering OH MY!!

Labels are for simpletons who want to be told what to believe, and have nothing of real substance to add to a discussion. Anytime youre ready to cast labels aside and stop lying about "what I call myself(label)" Ill be ready and willing as always. See Poorrichard whom I disagree with on everything. Civility isnt your strong suit is it? Nor is independance. Try it you might get tired actually reading something longer than one of my blog posts!!
I am getting paid to post? Anyone know where I can apply for that?? I know how much your repetetive blather is worth, less than nothing!

To attract others to teaching, teachers should be paid what people in the private sector are paid with similar education levels. A study done by the wisconsin policy research institute a year ago showed their salaries were lower than private sector workers with similar education levels, but when you factor in the benefits teachers recieved the total compensation package was very similar. When wanker decided all public employees needed to pay for their pension and health care costs many teachers were forced to take a pay cut of up to $10,000/year. That pay cut puts teacher compensation packages well below similarly educated private sector workers. In addition he decided to limit their ability to ever recover and catch up to private sector workers by eliminating collective bargaining. WEAC exists to protect teachers from politicians who wish to throw teachers under the bus for their own gain.

bebe53 said, "@fear-also please explain to all of us how your left leaning socialistic views of society reconcile themselves... You are obviously nothing more than a paid liberal tool..."

Dear Bebe53 Toolmaster,
I have a shed full of paid tools that I've bought over the last twenty-five years. Some lean to the left and some lean to the right. In fact, the same tools sometimes lean to the left and then to the right. Sometimes they don't lean at all and are perfectly straight, while at other times I have reason to believe they are bisexual. It's all so confusing. I would like to know how to determine if they are conservative, liberal or libertarian tools. Thanks.

@fear-also please explain to all of us how your left leaning socialistic views of society reconcile themselves with your own statement on past blogs that you consider yourself a "libertarian'?????
You are obviously nothing more than a paid liberal tool-how much do you pay in union dues every month, pray tell?

What I can't figure out is why Wisconsin voters evenly spit on Scott Walker. I think they should aim for the face.

@fear-you are more simple-minded than anyone I know-as long as the unions have power over these COLLEGE EDUCATED TEACHERS-they will NEVER be paid what they are worth-and if they are so smart and so educated and so dedicated-what the hell do they need the union for????

bebe- as usual a simple minded solutionless response all you do is repeat , repeat , repeat. DO you have an inde[pendant idea? a sggested solution?? Doubtful!
I support nothing that turd of a governor has done for education, nothing, because he has done nothing but denegrate and slash. Unions are necessary for teachers to have protection against polticians like Walker with a set agenda that benefits no one but his donors.

@fear-you are a cracker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@fear-you think teachers should be actually paid for what they are worth??? WOW!-what a revelation-then get rid of the unions-because that is the only way teachers will get their just dues- so I assume then that you would support Walker in his agenda????? As it stands now teachers are nothing more than paid Who##s for the union and their self interested agenda

In my experience Scott Walker is the second politician that has actually tried to do what he said he would the other being J.C. Watts R (OK). I say hats off to him and wish him many more terms in office so that this state which has always been bogged down by the general Milwaukee and Madison area can get to some real budget cuts and hopefully eventually tax cuts. If one is a true to life taxpayer (anyone who doesn't get all they're money back at the end of the year) has to love this guy or at least his ideology and concepts. I am among this group and can only see those that want something on the dole as being in opposition of his (Scott Walkers) or any other conservative's ideals.

fear-Thanks for your insight. It is a complicated problem for sure. I wonder how we will ever have a fair system?

officerfriendly.....as Santuram backer would say....
"Put a pill between your lips".

officerfriendly1 seems to be:
a) someone with a lot of tickets
b) someone who is a wannabe
or
c) a meth addict

Officerfriendly want a cracker???

Cartman - your handle is a fat abnoxious kid from a stupid cartoon called South Park. I wish I could have seen your stupidity before it was removed. By what others said you somehow must seem to think that teaching isnt "real work". That just shows, if anything, your level of intellect. What I wonder is if you have a clue about what "real work" is.
I will say this if you do have kids, I feel very sorry for them.

You want a solution or a hard number to your question Poorrichard, what I am saying is that there is no Finite solution to a question with so many moving parts.
Should we be maxing out the salary of teachers at a set amount? Why should a teacher of similar qualifications bve paid the exact same in Milwaukee in a poor school district and a multitude of socio-economic issues, as a teacher in say clinton whose test scores may be better because they have far less Social/behavioral/family issues to deal with that are not added to the equation!!
It seems to me that many of you want a simple addition problem 1+1=2, when in reality we are dealing with complex algebra with many variables 2x+4y/2z(3x-4)=your number.
The fact of the meatter is we should be encouraging the BEST teachers to teach in poor/challenged areas by offering higher pay, better benefits , better retirement. Not taking things away from it that make it less attractive because someone has a political axe to grind.
If you asked me what I think an eduator should be paid? I would say if we are talking including benefits, a teacher with a masters degree plus 15 years is worth over a 100K as long as there is an OBJECTIVE and fair way to evaluate their performance. Which no one has found a way to do.

""Mouse..but you do know (again) each district determines the salaries in their district, starting pay right on up, not Walker.""
Of course you are aware that State funding has a very LARGE part to do with the equation of how we pay for schools right donnaw? And you are aware of the record cuts to k-12 ed funding implemented by your hero right donnaw?
Can we blame Walker for the pay scales being low? No, but I certainly will blame him for the JSD having to cut services to students and laying off teachers statewide, the "tools" dont help they harm.
The problem with Scott Walker is that he sold out. From what I keep hearing from people that know him, say he was a reasonable man until he gained power, now he is a slave to his corporate masters. Once he was elected he lost his ability to lead, quite shameful.

donnaw.......but Walker saw fit to attack all teachers, regardless of geographic locations...he bulked his plan into one attack, without any regard for meeting or joint decisions. He even failed to listen to the offers and concessions that teachers put forth.
This was not his plan ..... it goes way beyhond Walker, and anyone smart enough to use google can research the Koch plan to kill education. Not only the Koch's - Walmart too.

nemesis: I will refrain from calling you an idiot. You and your GED should go back to listening to the druggie Rush.

AP stands for Amerikan Propaganda.

poorrichard: I always thought someone with a Masters, would be in an admin job, with a slightly higher pay. And as an fyi, I remember a teacher getting hurt in junior high school in the 70s by a kid. Heck, I once took a swing at one of my favorite teachers back then, when I was involved in a brawl (missed).

Many of you seem to be focused on the hourly salary for teachers.
They should make (both in salaries and bennies) what we can afford to pay them not a cent more or less. The benefit thing had gotten out of control.

Mouse..but you do know (again) each district determines the salaries in their district, starting pay right on up, not Walker.

It is odd, the hyperfocus on public sector/teacher pay and venom towards them - while the CEO of the non-profit Mercy makes $3,800,000 and is a treasured member of our community. Both the teachers and the CEOs pay come out of our pockets -either thru taxes, premiums or govt payments to the hospital.
*
Yet, the free market utopians make an exception for the CEO, because he is on the right side of the public/private sector fence -...but just barely.
*
And no I'm not saying that a public school teacher should make a comparable salary as the CEO. But where are the salary watchdogs for the CEO? Seems like straining a gnat and swallowing a camel.

beaguch-I think that's pretty close to what I was thinking too-I might put the cap a little higher to maybe $80,000 when they have earned their Masters. They deserve a good salary-no doubt. The question is how to pay for it? No easy way for that.
why_think-My wife worked 26 years in our local district-she's been attacked by students and parents, so it's not only hard work, it's dangerous work.

Because of the recent cuts to education, BTC will close the ropes course and the on-site day care.

poorrichard: $15 an hour would be too low imho. A teacher with a degree should start around $20 an hour, advancing to $25 after 5-10 years. I personally think a cap of of around 70k a year max for k-12 teachers (in Wisconsin).

700 people polled was not news when Walker was ahead, nor is it news now. If anything from this Tammy Baldwin dropped in approval ratings too. So What?

poorrichard

(Almost 800 posts and this is my first valid question-Two more and I become a liberal)

:~)

cartman,
Yes, teachers know that they will not have the biggest house in town when they pick that profession but they also believe they can make a middle-class income with great benefits.
.
Real work, what is real work? Are you a "hard labor" or not "real work" person? Have you ever spent a day with a teacher? What do you believe they do all day? How is that not "real" work?
.
I am curious. I have heard teachers called a lot of things but anyone who has kids or has been around kids generally respects what they do as work. Wondering why you don't.
.
BTW, last question...do you have children?

fear-I agree with most of what you say but I still didn't see an answer. The NFL brings in Rookies and the top guys get big bucks,many time way more that guys playing for years. Would it be fair to pay new teachers on a sliding scale depending on grades and school districts? What I'm saying is-How do we fix this problem? And mouse, I only know what the lady told me-all the teachers I know have been teaching for many years. (Almost 800 posts and this is my first valid question-Two more and I become a liberal)

There are plenty of reasons why I strongly support the recall effort but this ranks at the top, """Despite Walker declaring Wisconsin “Open for Business,” we’ve lost jobs for six straight months. In fact, since the Republican budget was signed into law, Wisconsin has led the nation in job losses.""" Janesville Gazette
.
Add that to the investigations, voter suppression law, union bashing, tax cuts for rich paid for by cuts to education and the most disturbing the "fake" Koch brothers phone call.
.
I understand and respect being a conservative or republican but this guy... I don't think he represents those values.
.
RECALL WALKER!

Keep going donnaw....... how many different jobs exist? Keep applying your logic, then we can all go home on the same pay, without any protection or benifits........ sounds like the Koch- Walker plan to me!

Janesville1st-= Yeah, yeah, yeah what are you trying to say? Yeah? Your post looks like something a "professional" wrestler would say, oooooo Yeah (Macho Man)

How about someone doing a straight up poll between the Governor and the eventual democrat candidate, you know, the one hand picked by the unions, not the people. Yeah, the Madison Socialist. Yeah, the one even many prominent democrats say shouldn't have made "The Pledge". Yeah, that's the one.

GREAT question Poorrichard and I appreciate the honesty in it.(Lack of condescention) Not many conservatives are capable of it. I appreciate your honesty. This actually happens to be my largest problem with him as well. the cuts to public education are very drastic, unecessary , and historically large.
What does a teacher deserve to be paid? As siimple of a question as that sounds its actually quite complicated. Unfortunately for simple minded free-marketeers like donnaw, its not a question of a "market" because like it or not they are civil servants, and they do not work in a competetive production style environment. So the "what the market bears" argument doest hold water here, nor should it.
I also think that it is very difficult to assess a teacher in a sitation where it relates to fair pay. What is a quality education system and an educated society worth to you? What constitutes a great teacher? Test scores? How would you ever get a great teacher to teach in an inner city district if the pay is terrible and the kids have no family life? How do we keep the best and brightest interested in a profession that requires just that when they are so heavily scrutinized in the arena of public opinion and being attacked by what seems to be a overtly loud side of the political arena because they believe a union is necessary to protect themselves from those that would just assume hire HS seniors for 10 bucks an hour?
Trying to get to the point PR as I never seem to be very good at, I believe that Teachers are the most important public servants, BY FAR. I believe that they should be compensated as such. I also believe that at some point we need to find a way to compensate them correctly and also assess them correctly so we are not paying people that are ;lazy and NOT educating our kids.
Do I think that a person that educates THOUSANDS of childern throughout their career is worth six-figures? ABSOLUTELY if they are proerly assesed and vetted before being put in the public trust.
14-15 bucks an hour? That is shameful and the direction our state and many that are on the same track are headed. I believe that this recall may be as much about the decimation of public ed as it is about ACT 10, if so, Walker is in big trouble.

Here is another poll http://www.postcrescent.com/article/2012...

mouse...doesn't each individual school district set the pay and benefit ranges, not Walker? In the real world salaries and benefits are based on what the market will bear. If lawyers normally ask for and receive $400 an hour and there is no competition, then that's what they get. If a company can't find employees with the training they need to run the company at the salary they are offering then they need to consider raising the salary.

HMMMMM Good bye Scooter The voters will speak not the GOP backed polls

poorrichard..... with a Degree or Masters?
By the way you didn't ask about the benifits in your payment amounts. (Remember benifits wer a part of a teachers payment plan... the teacher took less pay and allowed the rest to be added into their retirements.)
That was the part Walker uses to create the hate campaign between public and private workers.
I guess your question is valid, but how do you consider anyones worth in any job?
Is a Lawyer worth $400 an hour or a Dr visit worth $250, when you consider you spent more than 90% of your time waiting for him or her?
It's the first time I consider you put up a valid question, but should the Walkers of the world be the judge and jury?

I had a conversation today with a lady who came to our dialysis clinic today from Eau Claire. She was an inspector and I think she was from the Dialysis company.We got talking and I asked her what folks in her neck of the woods thought of Walker. She said most everybody dislikes him. I asked why-She told me she didn't like what he's doing to teachers. I said you mean the pension and health payments? No because starting teachers only get $14-15 dollars an hour to start. I didn't know what to say but on the way home I thought how much should they be paid? Whats everybodys opinion? I'd like to know.

Is that the WALKER who backs this sort of thing?...... Walker the Koch boyhttp://blueinthebluegrass.blogspot.com/2011/12/and-poor-kids-get-rat-poison.html?

Koch_Bros, the fact that you know who your "blogging allies" are on this site proves that you are in serious need of a life.

.....BRING YOUR MOTHERS AND DAUGHTERS TO THE POLLS TOO.
WALKER IS ONE OF THOSE WHO BACKS TAKING AWAY A WOMANS RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS.
ANYWAY IT'S NOT WALKER WE ARE VOTING AGAINST.... IT'S THE KOCH CASH.
KOCHS PREPARED TO PUT MILLIONS INTO WISCONSIN
(LAND GRABBERS AND EDUCATION KILLERS).

Same poll as last month? Same result. 3.7% margin of error with 47 is 50.7 or 51 is 47.3..
see you all at the polls, bring your ID

34% of the people polled believe wanker's policies have helped create jobs? Clearly alot of people ignore facts or simply believe the koch adds and the lies of wanker and his puppets like sykes, wagner and mckenna.

Good bye walker & those other yes sir people

Quote: "Neumann, Fitzgerald and Baldwin is name recognition. About half of respondents said they hadn't heard enough about any of the three."

Whaaaat? Half the people polled haven't heard of these three! Why would any body take this poll seriously!

If you had said the same thing last month when the gov was leading , Id listen but you seem to change your tone/excuses depending on a poll of 716 people in a state of 4 million voters.
You are right , voters elect/recall politicians, not polls. Looking forward to the election. So are many Wisconsinites methinks. As long as turnout is high Walker is in trouble.

And of course you were saying the same thing a month ago when the same poll had the Gov in a lead, right?

Polls don't elect people, voters do.

...steady... No not yet Patriots ...steady...simmer down RAF and Vato...Midnight-put down that blunderbuss... Wislady shhh, you too feduptp...

Do not fire until you see the whites of their liberal eyes, Patriots.