Healthcareforall doesn't seem to like people to question her assertions. I'm sorry that she's so upset. I guess some people shouldn't participate in the give and take of debate for the sake of their nerves. The problem is that people like her are now in charge of the country, for the moment. People who don't like debate and just want their assertions accepted w/o question. In America we have a healthy scepticism of authority. In Europe, they don't. We have seen the results of that in the past 100 years. We have no choice? There are over 1300 private healthcare insurers in this country to choose from. How many choices do you have under a government program? One. She is obviously pro-socialist and anti-capitalist and the facts don't really matter. She thinks that the government beauracrats (who are NOT the people) are to be trusted but anyone who tries to make a profit is inherently corrupt. She thinks that anyone who questions her statistics must be corrupt themselves. No, I don't work for an insurance company. My priciples are not based on what I can pocket and for her to constantly make such snide comments is juvenile. Anyone who was at the townhall meeting could see that the crowd was majority anti-Obamacare. Were all of those people insurance company employees? Obviously not. One must wonder when a person assumes that all actions of their opponents are motivated by greed whether this is a form of projection. I'm not the one who is lusting after the wealth of others. I'm not the one who wants my neighbors to pay for my health care.

Thankyou Lakekennedy, I just read your comment. We have an excellent opportunity here, because we are the last industrialized country to have health care for all our people. We have an extreme advantage to the others, we can look at how they all do it and take the best from their systems. We can make our system the best in the world. We can take the #37 ranking and the triple the spending and make it #1 with equal spending, we just have to open our minds.

One final comment. I came to the forum, not because I had anything personally to gain from it. Just to tell my and my family's experience with national health care. If you were in another country and you heard people in that country telling lies and inaccuracies and only giving a negative side of the picture of something, say american education, for example, wouldn't you feel incensed and want to speak up and say "hey it isn't true, that is not how it works". That's all I was doing. There's no company gain by me speaking up. I am being attacked for "free speech". I was spoken to very badly by some people, for what, for speaking up and telling the truth! Well I did have a large amount of people come up and shake my hand and thank me, many more than attacked me. But the cries of "what organization are you with" and booing me when I was telling a true story of how the doctors come to your home in the middle of the night, and go home to England. Well this is my home and pardon me for trying to help improve it.

I went to the listening session on Weds. The main reason I went was because this issue is insanely confusing to me, and I think we're all subjected to misinformation, loaded terms, etc. I have taken issue with several of Paul Ryan's previous votes, but will say that I'm glad I went. I have a lot more respect for him than I previously did, and I appreciated the fact that, although at times the audience became enraged, he did his best to calm everyone down and listen to everyone. That being said, I did take issue with a few aspects of his powerpoint presentation...It seemed to me that several of his "bullets" were based on what he assumed would happen, and I'm not that interested in assumptions.
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Again, I think it would serve us all to take a look at thomas.loc.gov this website does offer information on what is being proposed and by whom.
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I also wanted to comment on the "brit" that spoke during the session...the audiences reaction to her was insulting to all Americans. When she pointed out that we are the richest nation in the world, and our healthcare system is a disgrace, she was met by boos, etc. As an American, I didn't feel offended by that statement. Instead, I felt compelled to do something. Perhaps we could learn a thing or two from these other countries, perhaps not. Refusing to listen to her point isn't going to help anything though.
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I also was a little disturbed by the amount of people there who seem to have come with their minds already made up, and instead of questions for the Congressman, came with objections or endorsements instead of questions. I especially want to thank that first lady who said she almost wouldn't come because she was afraid of guns....then didn't even ask a question about health reform. What was the point of that?

Now, I have answered everyone, don't bother responding to me as my family needs me to calm down. I know I'm not going to get anywhere speaking to people like you, so I am not going to read this any more. Facts speak for themselves and if you love your insurance companies so much, keep em, buy stock in them and good luck to you!

dahc - your medicare needs tons of improvement. Nothing like our British system. I am not saying to model the British system, although the VA is modeled on it. How can you say public education is a poor analogy. It is exactly that socialized education - run by the government. Even in the UK we have a choice, by the way, if you don't want to use the national health care system you don't have to, you can obtain private health insurance. Here we have no choice!

Here is the article: by the way I see you didn't mention the CIA world factbook stats!

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/...

john adams- first of all, you cannot take one or 2 individual statistics and use them. The overall world ranking takes everything into account, and that is a much fairer comparison. Read this article from 2009 about the UK and US statistics on various cancer deaths and see how they are skewed and not comparing apples to apples. The VA is a socialized medicine actually based on the UK national health care. I spoke to a friend that had private insurance, no insurance and the VA. The private insurance refused her very expensive care, no insurance is what it is, of course, nothing, and the VA have always treated her well and she's lived in different states and has excellent care, where they haven't refused anything. By the way I never said the British way was the best, just way better than here. There are many other countries that have better socialized medicine.

You talk about Freedom, well what do you think the government is and the government means - "the people" it means the people decide, not businesses out to make profits. It all comes down to freedom and not being dictated to! I will no longer respond to your posts as I do not have the time to waste and you have obviously been brainwashed, or maybe work for an insurance company, who knows!

healthcareforall:
Thank you for providing those links to the WHO stats. I see that WHO no longer produces such a ranking because of the complexity of the task. This indicates to me that there is a great deal of subjectivity in the rankings. Kenneth Kizer, M.D. formerly head of the V.A. hospitals under Clinton stated, “What does that even mean, the ‘best in the world?’” As to whether the U.S. is the best, Kizer stated, “In terms of research and technology available to those who can afford it, the answer is probably yes.” Kizer is a critic of the lack of access in the U.S. You failed to mention that even the WHO ranks the U.S. #1 in level of responsiveness while the U.K. is #26. That, I would think, is a more objective standard. Another thing to consider is that the WHO is a notoriously left-wing organization as evidenced by its litany of social welfare recommendations issued from its meeting in Stockholm in 2005. So, taking their rankings at face value is not prudent. And, apparently their ranking system is too complex to easily understand. You can’t just waive around the WHO numbers and expect everyone to agree with you that the case is closed. Let’s use objective standards. (I apologize that some of these stats are a little dated, but so are yours :) ) 20% of curable cases of colon cancer in the U.K. become incurable by the time of treatment (Commonwealth Fund, Issue Brief, May ’02). Because of doctor shortages in the U.K. a U.K. doc has to see 3,176 patients/year while a U.S. doc only 2,222. And the U.S. docs spend much more time with each patient.(Health Affairs, May ’01). The U.K. has half as many MRI scanners per person as the U.S. and the same goes for CT scanners. (Health Affairs, May ’03). Breast cancer mortality ratio in U.K. was 46% and in the U.S. 25% (Commonwealth Fund, Oct. 2000)(Health Care in A Free Society, John C. Goodman, cato.org) There are a myriad of societal reasons, unrelated to healthcare, as to why mortality rates differ. For example, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, Asian American male life expectancy in 1999 was 80.9 years. In your WHO numbers, the highest male life expectancy was in Japan and was only 71.9. It’s hard to compare racially homogeneous countries like Japan with a diverse population like we have in the U.S. and expect to get a good apples to apples comparison. As for 50 million horror stories, even libs say it's 47 mill, and that includes illegal aliens, people who can afford it but choose not to buy it, and young people who have no interest in it because they think they don't need it. To say that a person w/o ins. is a horror story compared to elderly people who can't get a bedpan is silly. I hope you will further consider the whole idea of freedom. It doesn’t seem to be of much import to you. Many, if not most, Americans still believe in our Revolutionary slogan, “Live free or die.” That illustrates how important freedom is to us. Thanks for the spirited debate.

Have to agree with healthcareforall here. I lived in Europe and thought I had good insurance here, but the healthcare was way better over there. No denying the facts when we are 37th in the world!

If you think 1,000,000 horror stories are bad, what about the 50,000,0000 horror stories of people that have NO insurance besides the 200,000,000 horror stories of bad health insurance experiences.

I live in this country because of family, which is first and foremost to me, obviously not because of our wonderful health care system

Here are the links. According to the world health organization the US ranks 37th in the world in overall health care. (Oh the UK is #18).

The CIA world factbook which I also gave the links to ranks our life expectancy as 50th in the world and infant mortality rate as 180th (the shame of it!)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications...

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthra... - world health organization

I would not change my principles just because I lost my job. That would be very shallow. I haven't always had health insurance. I would never expect you to pay for my health insurance if I lost my job. However, if you choose to help me of your own accord, I would be grateful. I looked on the WHO website but didn't see the stats you're talking about. I would appreciate a more precise description of where I'd find them. You seem to be ignoring the news story I've sent to you. Didn't you see all of the tragic stories that were written in response to the article? I'm not making those up. I don't know whether you're lying or not. You are obviously being selective in the data you wish to believe. You are citing the data that supports your argument. I don't know why you're supporting socialism. But I know that it does not work. The U.S. is much more prosperous than the U.K. That's a fact. The U.S. has better healthcare and it would be even better if there was less govt. interference pushing up the costs. YOU are one-sided. Still don't know why you're in this country when you could be living in one with dramatically better healthcare.

When I was talking about "our health care" I was talking about "our American health care" and improving it.

- You have a job that gives you health insurance - congratulations. Hope you don't lose it and have to try purchasing it, I think you would change your tune then.

I am not talking about Obama's health plan. I support HR-676 the single payer health plan.

I have to work right now, otherwise I would get all the facts and figures for you. As you obviously are one sided and don't want to look them up yourself. I will get back to you, when I have the time.

The facts speak for themselves! Want horror stories, there are more than a million of them with the American Health care system. I have lots of relatives in England and the care they get and I have gotten there, is extremely good and if you don't believe me, why would I lie? what's the point?do you really think I want to spend my time making up things like this. I have nothing to gain by it.

Healthcareforall,
You were sitting in the front row. Did you not hear the fact that medicare does not cover all medical care entirely? The government plan (medicare) has limits. People need to buy gap coverage on a regular basis.

The use of the police, military, and education is a poor analogy.

What about this article.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/health...

healthcareforall:
No, I'm not on Medicare. I have a job. I earn money. A portion of it goes to health insurance. Your definition of socialism is bizarre. Socialism is government ownership of the means of production. Having a police force does not entail socialism. Your argument seems to be that if some things are run by the government, then all things should be run by the govt. I could just as easily argue that if some things are run by the private sector, then all things should be run by the private sector. That makes no sense. Obviously, some things should be run by the govt. and some should not. Health care should not because the government does things by force. If you don't like it, too bad. A private sector does things by persuasion. If you don't like it, you can go to another private entity. If you can't afford it, you can get help through private charities who collect money by persuasion, not by force. As George Washington, our great leader against British tyranny, said, "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." We do not want an entity that relies upon force to be making decisions about how our health care is run. It's scary to a freedom-loving people. If you want your neighbors to pay for your healthcare, then why don't you go door to door and ask them for the money? I'll tell you why you won't. Because you'd be embarassed to do so. They would start asking you questions like, "Well, what are you spending your money on now?" That's called accountability. When the federal govt. takes the money from your neighbors for you, then you don't have to answer those tough questions. Are you seriously holding up Medicare as a great program? The 2008 Social Security and Medicare Trustees Reports showed the combined unfunded liability of these two programs has reached over $100 trillion, with Medicare's unfunded liability being more than 5 times larger than that of Social Security!!! We can't afford what we already have and you want to add on trillions more, We DON'T HAVE the MONEY!! Our national debt is now over $11 trillion. Obama has quintupled the deficit over the deficits of George W. Bush. If you raise taxes to deal with the debt, then you will further depress the economy and cause revenues to the government to go down because there won't be as much wealth out there to tax. I don't know why you are arguing for single payer healthcare. President Obama keeps on saying that his plan is not a single payer plan and that he is not in favor of a single payer plan. Are you implying that the president is lying to us and that his plan is, in reality, a single payer plan? As for quality of care in the U.K., see today's story at Telegraph.co.uk. which reads, "One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today."

healthcareforall; I'm not trying to put America down there are lots of wonderful things about the country, only to help people see how our health care system can be better. ------- OUR health care? Interesting, I assume you meant to say "their", being your a US citizen & all, right?

johnadams - Aren't you on socialized medicine already? You probably have medicare. Do you know that the education system, the police system, the fire department, the military are all socialized? Don't you recieve social security. Medicare is a single payer health system. I am the Brit from Milton. First of all I was only 20 when I came here and didn't know or care anything about healthcare. The only reason I came to the forum yesterday, was to counteract the myths and misinformation that has been given about socialized medicine. In response to my finances, health insurance cost me over $12,000 last year and my business isn't doing so well with the economy this year is why I can't afford it anymore. And by the way my family didn't have any major illnesses.

Health insurance companies are one of the biggest contributors to Paul Ryan. Do you wonder why he doesn't support the single payer health system.

I only came to give my opinion and show another side of the coin that so often is not shown. It is true that my 4 year old niece was sick in the middle of the night with a violent headache and temperature and the Doctor was there at the house within minutes and gave her antibiotics, which prevented her dying from meningitis. It happens every day. Hard to believe when you have been fed misinformation from the big business insurance companies, that are getting richer and richer and people are dying and going bankrupt because of them. Look up the statistcs on the CIA world factbook and the World Health Organization and you will see where our country (yes, I am a citizen) the US stands compared to others and yet we pay at least double in some cases triple the amount they pay. There is free enterprise in Europe we only came here because of family. I'm not trying to put America down there are lots of wonderful things about the country, only to help people see how our health care system can be better.

proartist; obviously you didnt read that bill either. It gave you a CHOICE. I may have chose to NOT put it in the stock market but rather into foreign currencies or gold or whatever, you dont "know" what would have happened - maybe thousands of people that didnt loose big, would be buying now and we would be on our way back up again. Stock Markets are for the long haul - not a 6-12 month period. Unless you had stock in Bankrupt companies, you havent lost a dime unless you sell - it will go back up, thats what the system is supposed to do. What ever happened to happened to personal resposibility and choice. Where did that drive go that was so strong generations before us had? Then - "you can be anything you want to be, you've just got to work hard" now its just sit back we'll take care of everything for you mentality. I am all for the one's who have "fallen thru the cracks" - but forever? No, help them get on their feet or back on their feet & let them go. For the heart strings you attempt to pull: Disabled - I dont see/hear ANYBODY saying they shouldn't be "taken care of" by some form of social program(s). Kids - If you've read my posts related to kids you know how I feel about them. Again, where is the personal resposibility in this lie - with the parents. Just because someone has children DOESNT make them a mom or a dad - yes, they are the Mother & Father but not a mom or dad. I know you probably dont comprehend this (not saying your stupid, you just dont look at things this way) ie. just because a guy Fathers a child then disapears "into the night" does NOT make him a dad. Where is his resposibility?

"In fact, today's Americans who are so isolated from one another and so afraid of their fellow citizens" ----- put the personal resposibility back into society & people wouldnt be this way. example: I'll bet you lock your doors at night, remove keys from vehicles etc. Why, because people dont take resposibility for their own actions any more. When I grew up (in Jvl) we never locked the door, left keys in the car when you ran into the grocery etc. why? people could be trusted (to a degree I understand) but I think alot of you would agree with me, society has changed & why? nobody is held accountable for their actions & hold little if any personal resposibility. Put THESE values back into society & you'll have your community back!!! oh, and our kids & grandkids wont have to pay for our arrogance and mentality that "the world "owes" me something because I'm here."

The Brit from Milton was astonishing. First of all, she said that she was surprised that we didn't have socialized medicine when she came to the U.S. Really? As Barney Frank would say, "What planet are you from?" You mean to tell me that before she came here, she had no idea that this is basically, for the moment at least, a free enterprise country? She also said that she owned a business that was doing very well, but she has not bought health insurance. Sounds like we need to work on a budget there in the Milton-Brit household. Then there's the question that inquiring minds want to know. If the U.K. is so much better, why the heck did she come here? Could it be that she wouldn't be able to have a successful business in the U.K. because of the oppressive taxation needed to support the socialist programs? Her claim that if you have a sick child in the U.K., a doctor will come to your house within 10 minutes in the middle of the night strained all credibility. Did she live next door to a hospital? I got the impression from her protestations that the statistics presented by Paul Ryan that demonstrated the failure of Britcare made absolutely no impression upon her. Don't confuse me with the facts, I've already made up my mind! Lastly, we fought two wars in order to rid us of oppressive British laws. (We also saved their butts in two other wars because they were incapable of defending themselves.) We had the choice between British tyranny and American freedom, and we chose the latter. Been there, done that. Don't want to go down that road again.

tiredofhearingit: "...he personally attempted to give YOU control over it..."....yea, that was a great idea. Ryan would privatize Social Security into the stock market and see just how that goes. We all know how that would have ENDED! The key to all these divisive issues fueled by FOX News and other in-the-corporate-pocket fearmongering groups is that in today's culture the citizens continually forget we're a COMMUNITY. As a community, people help people. You may call that socialism. I call that a true democracy with all taking care, protecting the rights of, and concerned for the least of us, for those who have no voice (i.e. children who can't vote), and for those who through NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN have "fallen through the cracks". The speaker with a disabled son who will soon have no health care coverage should not have to be in such fear for his care. A truly compassionate, caring, and unified democracy would never let that happen. In fact, today's Americans who are so isolated from one another and so afraid of their fellow citizens - let alone afraid of the GOOD concepts to emulate from other nations - truly have nothing to fear other than what their fear is doing to risk their own future well-being and the core of our nations democratic values.

Since all the uproar has been caused by the Right and since Ryan is a golden-boy of the Right, why would one expect an uproar? -
Your not from here are you? This town is "traditionally" thought of as a blue-collar, union town & IF Ryan were "the golden boy" of the right... well you do the math. No, there was Not an uproar because even with the UAW & likes drilling this in peoples heads, they still understand what this is.... (do I dare?)S-word

Also, have you noticed just how many times he's conveyed his message here and gotten re-elected - not because he's the golden-boy of the right but rather he just plain makes sense & is honest with the voters - that HAS to be the reason, like I said, its a "union town" and he not only survives but thrives.

Since all the uproar has been caused by the Right and since Ryan is a golden-boy of the Right, why would one expect an uproar? In fact, it sounds like Ryan was part of the whole orchestrated plan to use the S-word, everytime healthcare reform is discussed. Ooh, bugga-bugga-boo. . . . Be scared, really scared that you might actually have security and a piece of mind.

As part of this audience today I would hardly call the response to the English woman as "rousing".

"Then he opened it up to questions from among the hundreds of onlookers, most of them older people, perhaps most conservatives like himself."
If that were the case, why would the response be rousing?

btw, where was this health care forum announced? it wasn't in the gazzette website, and are gun owners allowed to visit? just so they can demonstrate their rights. :)

comments on the gazzette site keep kicking me out of the site everytime i use proper caps to reply. grrr.. anyways, ryan takes tons from special interests (look it up), and needs to be kicked out of office. it won't happen because there are too many idiots who think medicare isn't a govt. program. my thought is just get rid of the guy. millions from special interests, and absolute intractabilty to any comprosise with a democrat. (or common sense). and this article doesn't show up in the gazzette's main page, i found it through google news, so what does that say about our local newspaper?

proartist; your painting Ryan with a pretty broad brush there. He's not what most would call a rank in file republican. He's not waiting for every potential problem, every potential danger etc.... He has aggressively brought up social security reform -(it will run out of money & he DID warn you)- he personally attempted to give YOU control over it, he has his OWN Health Care plan - why dont you try reading it - by the way he even wrote it before the election last year. http://www.house.gov/ryan/roadmap/roadma... and he works "across the isle" on several issues.
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Class and cultural warfare is what is needed to keep the status quo and it appears that's what's working. - you are kidding right?, Newsflash!!!! the 1st Black President ever was voted in last Nov.(something ALOT of people NEVER thought they would see in their lifetime)& the last time I checked, he has not only NOT pulled out of Iraq & Afganistan but rather increased the efforts. Could it be that he knows just a little more than you about the terror threats & this IS all justified - you just are not privy to know what he knows!

Many of us have learned by experience that Ryan votes his own interests, that it is of no use to contact him with a different opinion---all you get is a letter re-stating his original position. He doesn't listen to any outside opinions. He is only influenced by his insurance/pharmacology/healthcare contributors in this case.

Will Ryan have the courage to admit that his party, when in power, DID take a "leap of faith" with 100% of our economy and did get it wrong putting our entire national wealth (in dollars and lives) into a downward spiral due to deregulation, wars-of-no-end, and more? ... I thought so. Would he rather "get it right" and take a wild chance with regressive change that only benefits the wealthy like Ryan and their investments per his past voting record or progressive change for all the citizenry implementing reform now? Anyone who always waits until every potential problem, every potential danger, and every potential question is resolved, removed, or answered will wait forever. In the meantime, the people lose and the corporate bosses win. Class and cultural warfare is what is needed to keep the status quo and it appears that's what's working.