Callit......, to see an obsession where it doesn't exist is, itself, obsession.

And attempting to change the subject doesn't change the subject, it only amplifies the subject:

You messed up, you got caught, deal with it.

By the way, your inability to shake this thing is a little creepy.

Your obsession with billnewbie is frightening. As for my "little" comment, it had nothing to do with your physical size.

Wrong on both counts. And I'm also not someone who forget the cause for our exchange:

Your rude post directed at people who chose to partake in a lengthy debate about religion -including some of whom who believe that Jesus Christ is their lord and savior -including billnewbie.

LOL.What an angry little man you are.

Callit......., your anguish would have been over with a simple apology.

Get over yourself GF. You really do to get a life other than Gazettextra. Have you hit 10,000 posts yet? Sorry I'm being disrespectful to your highness but you have "earned my disrespect". You should understand the concept.

Callit....., the rude disRESPECTful post you left on the religious blog. Which, by the way, was also directed at believers.

Let me know if you still don't remember, and I'll direct you to it.

Though, you must remember it, it's the reason you're mired-down on this blog.

Huh?

Callit......, you messed-up, you got caught, deal with it.

billnewbie, you hit it on the head.

You will never change the Teflon man.

Courtesy is the glue that holds society together. ---Cosmo Kramer

billnewbie, thanks for pasting some of my well written statements. I've re-pasted them below:

--
"questioning the ideology of a bunch of guys who saw and heard things that weren't there thousands of years ago", "Abrahamic religions are a threat to civilization" and "the institutionalization of child rape in the Catholic Church -the ultimate representation of christianity -its perverse way of displaying its misogyny -revealing that christianity is rotten to the core"
--

I stand by those words. And the only saving grace for the great majority of christians is that they are christians in name only. To be a true biblical christian requires that christians be part and parcel of the rot described above. A large part of what I say here should make nominal christians happy that they aren't real christians. Read your bible.

And as for you and the other people who degrade our debate: Taking you and them to task on such has had positive results: Recall that you and some of your ilk use to provoke non-believers by saying we are possessed by the devil or some such thing? Now you and they no longer do that.

Statements such as "questioning the ideology of a bunch of guys who saw and heard things that weren't there thousands of years ago", "Abrahamic religions are a threat to civilization" and "the institutionalization of child rape in the Catholic Church -the ultimate representation of christianity -its perverse way of displaying its misogyny -revealing that christianity is rotten to the core" are meant to be disrespectful, are meant to be provocative. An example of an intent of someone who would make statements such as these is to bait a hostile response. Then when they get one, they feel free to openly assail those they've baited for their responses, castigating them for their "horrible, vicious attacks". It's an example of poor character, and it's an evil, manipulative game. In these blogs, the anonymous posters can say what they would not say in person because here, there is no accountability, other than to get banned by the Gazette which is an ineffective penalty since you can rejoin these discussions easily by setting up a new email account and by choosing a new I.D.

The quality of a person's character is evident by what he does when he thinks no one will know. For anonymous posters of poor character, they can spew disrespect at will, and some are very willing indeed. They revel in provoking others. And they can always find a way to blame their victims. Somehow, the object of their derision always deserves it, from their warped viewpoint. Warped, because they conveniently ignore the fact that they baited the responses they point to as justification for their own disrespectful posts.

Of course, these tactics are not limited to religious discussions. Political discussions on the Gazette are littered with personal disparagements. Take a stand of any type, really, and it won't be long until someone suggests you're stupid, ignorant, idiotic, hypocritical, or even a fat, dimwitted twit! All it takes for some to stoop to such tactics is to disagree with them and then not be persuaded by their arguments. For some, disrespect is the result of frustration which to me is forgivable and I usually ignore it when I recognize it for that, but for a few, disrespecting others is their purpose for being here as they seem to be able to satisfy a craving for boosting their egos with that tactic.

That also illustrates the advantage of being anonymous. Those that despise and disparage billnewbie haven't affected the guy sitting here posting his opinions under that name, to their chagrin, no doubt.

buckyfan, if you're looking for trouble, go over to the religious blog. This blog is for being nice.

Oh gazettefan, you have such a knack for amusing me. The fifth paragraph made me laugh out loud...

Callit......., I already explained on this blog that I will take someone to task for attempting to ruin a debate. That's what I did with billnewbie. In an effort to debate religion he had nothing but hostility to offer. So much so that he effectively banned himself from blogging there, save for the aforementioned guerrilla posts -like the one you left there.

As for Cheezes of Nazareth, the most substantial defense of christianity is: well, it's what people believe and we must respect that belief -and that this claimed entitlement for respect is rooted in christianity's antiquity, as though just because something has been lingering for 2000 to 4000 years is reason enough for it to garner respect.

So, the harsh exchanges between billnewbie and me came from his rudeness. And I reject that questioning the ideology of a bunch of guys who saw and heard things that weren't there thousands of years ago is off limits. In one way or another, the Abrahamic religions are a threat to civilization.

billnewbie and almost all the other believers on the religious blogs here have earned ample amounts of disrespect in their attempt to quash the ability of non-believers to have their say. To the Gazette's credit, it refused to give into the pressure.

You should give that religious blog a good read. And note that even though non-believers come off as harsh sometimes, the quality of the writing and thinking of non-believers is superior to believers. And if you only select harsh ones from non-believers to focus on, remember, everything you said there is hostile.

Now compare my response here to the post you left on the other blog. Big difference. It's like the whole problem in a nutshell.

"Respect for ourselves guides our morals; respect for others guides our manners."

Laurence Sterne

Respect means to have no expectations of other. Also I hear "respect your elders".... If one claims to be recognized because of their age and treated differently... they do not deserve respect. When you treat everyone the same regardless of age you get my respect. But I dont disrespect anyone really so....

Gfan, I have a question on the relationship you have with billnewbie and the Bible gang. Aren't you disrespectful on a daily basis to their beliefs? Isn't the "Cheeses of Nazareth" shtick disrespectful as well?

You mentioned them "earning my disrespect". Does that mean if you don't agree with them then you get to be as nasty as you want?

If I disagree with you on wasting time on the Bible blogs doesn't that earn me the same right?

I am serious here and would like an answer.

Here we go......

I think many people are confusing respect with trust. "Trust" is earned-not given. Respect on the hand should be given freely and in abundance until such time that it isn't deserved.

Hey, professor, this is the concierge, we want those towels back!

During a recent trip to Chicago, our hotel room was not at all what we had expected. Our two daughters were struck how, when I called management and respectfully told them our concerns, management responded by upgrading us at no charge to a georgeous suite for both nights. My wife and I made the point how unlikely that it would have turned out that way, had I been rude, demanding, etc. You could see both of the girls' 'wheels' turning. One of those fun parental moments....

I agree Callitasiseeit- I will NOT respect some scum bag that breaks into my home. YOU DON'T deserve it!!

Respect hasn't really diminished. It only seems that way. The more the population increases, the more people there are who behave badly. If anything, the percentage of people who perform bad behavior like disrespect is probably decreasing.

A way to measure my claim is that the percentage of humans who kill humans decreases all the time. Since 1900, including both World Wars, humans have killed other humans at only a small fraction of the rate they killed each other prior to 1900.

And because this is the case, it stands to reason that disrespect is also on the decline.

The problem is, in the matter of homicide of all kinds and other kinds of bad behavior, the media has honed in on the human wish to be exposed to bad news. This is probably eternal. And if it is eternal, then, it is our responsibility to understand that over-focusing on bad things leaves us with the impression that bad things happen more often than they really do. It is our responsibility to not perceive the world as being accurately portrayed through the "lens" of the media.

This site is one form of the media. People are kinder to each other in real life.

Why was that well said Bella? Force is acceptable under certain circumstances. Stealing my TV, no. Breaking into my house, not fleeing when confronted, or accosting my wife or children, yes.

Respect has been lost as soon as they break into my house.

Respect is an only child he's waiting in the park.
Respect is in charge of finding treasure in the dark.

It should be a law that every homeowner/renter leave a questionnaire by the door to their house asking potential breakers-in if they just intend to steal stuff or harm people inside and then turn it in to the occupants upon entering...Now THAT would be respect.

proartist - well said.

One has to only look at the Gazettes own comment boards (i.e., "Homeowners should be good witnesses in burglaries") to understand why there's a general decrease respect for one another. When the Gazette allows and does not admonish anonymous commentators who threaten and suggest deadly force is acceptable - when a person's "stuff" is considered more important than physical endangerment of others - then we DO have a very serious problem and it appears the media is encouraging it.

The society in a whole has lost respect for each other...... Drive down the road and see what happens bump a cart in the grocery store see what happens the society as a whole is rude... I am trying to instill in my grandchildren what I have been taught and still use today MANNERS.. which don't even get me started on that subject. You have to respect and love yourself before you can respect and appreciate others that being said have a great day!!

There's always more Zippy.

G-fan, Ah! You used author's license. That's allowed. I tend to do the same with incomplete sentences occasionally.

But should I wait? 'cause there's more?

Sorry, I just read Zippy.

Wax on, wax off, the secret of life, harmony, understanding and unity in the universe. Three easy payments, suitable for framing, call now, our operators are standing by.

Well, we all shine on.

seriouslyfunny, you are correct. And believe it or not, my redundancy did not escape me as I wrote it, it's just that it felt right for emphasis.

Kleej, I forgive you.

primer, if karma is supposed to be a supernatural phenomenon, I'm a little leery of such things.

“Give, and it shall be given to you. For whatever measure you deal out to others, it will be dealt to you in return.”
Instant Karma.

...that's not to say that I don't agree with your point. Some are treated unfairly.

You're right gazettefan. I take the highroad here. If I've ever come across as anything but respectful to you or anyone else....the line is being drawn in the sand right here and now......I apologize. Just because we're all hiding out in this invisible communication "vessel" doesn't give us the right to be disrespectful! Great article Greg!

Gazettefan, By its very definition, mistreatment is always unfair.

I can respect that.

Let's not omit the possibility that someone can be unfairly mistreated.

It seems many times, the more someone DEMANDS respect, the less they DESERVE it.

I'm getting respect (and some of that other thing too). But let's not ignore the act of unprovoked attacks.

If you aren't getting any, maybe you haven't earned it. Respect, that is.

Right Kleej and foolonthehill.

And it is wise to be calculating about trust.

My thoughts exactly, GFan!

I would think in a case like yours Mr Peck the word should be "LOVE".
Respect would/should in that case then be automatic.

gazettefan~ we actually agree on something..sort of. I would say that everyone get's my respect automatically, they have to earn my trust.

Everyone gets my respect automatically. It's my disrespect that has to be earned.

Correction: I should have said, "self-involved" not "self-possessed." I was on a roll. :0)

I agree that personal respect is earned. That is an entirely different issue than "being" respectful to others. One is a personally held feeling or belief about another person, the other is one's own code of conduct.

-
I, too, am disturbed by the level of disrespectful discourse we see at every strata: from congressional debate down to elementary school playgrounds. And frankly, I feel, we, as parents, have the responsibility for dropping the ball on this issue. For the last fifty years, we have allowed social workers and guidance counselors, teachers and Dr. Spock to co-opt our parenting and tell us that we cannot and *should* not discipline our children. The majority of the twenty-somethings and down I see on television and at the mall or on the street, are foul-mouthed, petty, and entirely self-possessed. Is it any wonder that so many of them expect--no, demand--to be taken care of by the government, which actually means US? We need to take back our children, take back our responsibility and take back our pride in ourselves, our families and our country. NO one can do it better than we can.

Generation ME

Respect is earned. People who demand respect usually don't get it. Respect for opinions of others, do you respect the opinions of Hitler, Stalin and McVeigh? Come on now!

Mr. Peck,
I was taught that respect is something that is "earned", not given.
Manners and Politeness, I agree with everything you said about that.

Greg.....I agree with everything you say,
Now is that the respect you want?

It's hard to give away something that we don't have for ourselves. It's in epidemic proportion.

Callit......., the issue is "respect."

And did you describe your post as lame? You're not clear on that.

LOL Gfan-that is a pretty lame "guerrilla" post. As for your first reference I have no idea what you are talking about.

In regards to comments, I see a spectrum of respect just as in real life. Everyone is at a different maturity level, and non of us are saints. We are all human though, so we at least have that in common.
These blogs and comment sections also serve as a vent for people since they're anonymous if you're not going too far. I've seen most if not all of the bloggers use this forum to vent too. I don't think there needs to be any disrespect.
I'm aware of who writes what over time, and I've definitely noticed people who have written comments for a couple years grow in their respect for others, including the blogger. I see fewer grammar cops around, too. I try my best. I would certainly think harder than I usually do about what I'm about to post if I had my real name next to it.

Greg, I think I'm banned from Webblogs in the print edition because I criticized someone on one of your blogs. That person was either CallitasIseeit or someone with a similar name. It would be a real problem to find that blog. I sometimes find that poster to be a problem re: respect.

There are definitely posters on this site who will drop in on a debate and slam one or more of the regular posters there. It's too bad staff doesn't have the capacity to monitor this sort of behavior. Accordingly, when a guerrilla poster becomes persistent on any one blog that I frequent, I've found that it's effective to take them to task. They usually shape up in one way or another.

CallitisasIseeit left this guerrilla post on an ongoing and hearty religious debate page:

"756 posts?? You guys gotta get lives."

bebe19284: I, too, have typed a response, either on my blog or directly to a particular poster, then deleted it without sending it. I consider carefully what I write here because, of course, people often can't get a proper sense of tone through the written word, and even sarcasm or humor can get missed. Of course, unlike most of you, I'm not writing anonymously here, and I must consider that EVERYTHING I print will forever be swirling around that great big expanse called the Internet. So I choose my words carefully. How much better might we be if everyone pretended they weren't writing anonymously. It also would reflect better on our community.
Greg Peck

While I agree with Bella's statement - Get Respect, Give Respect - too often no one is willing to give it before they get it. How about just GIVE respect?? I know, sounds hippie-ish but I think that's one thing that generation got right. (BTW - I'm in the under 30 crowd)

Bella - many times I've had some response for a story here and have re-typed said response several times only to just delete it all and move on without actually posting. I feel better about that many times over :)

I post fairly frequently (a lot lately, but it goes in waves), and there are times when I regret some of the comments I've made. I want to be respectful. I was raised to be respectful. But sometimes I give in to the shelter of anonymity and fire off a quick response to something without asking myself if I really needed to say what I just did. I also find that if my posts are treated respectfully, then I tend to respond in a respectful manner. Get respect - Give respect. But sometimes anger gets the best of me, or frustration. And in those cases, it would probably have been better to just move on to the next story.

People as a whole have lost repect for each other, let alone someone's opinion on a topic. Too many times, I've heard a teenager make a snide or disrespectful comment and the parent laughs right along with them. When I was growing up, my mom would have marched me right up to that person so I could say sorry just in case they MIGHT have heard me.
The simple truth is that we have tolerated disrespect for too long in our daily lives to the point that being disrespectful in cyberland for many, is just second nature.
If you ever watch a conversation among "friends", it's rather disrespectful. "Hey b*tch, call me!" "WTF dude! Are you an idiot?!" Remember, this is among friends. If we can't treat our friends with respect, why would be treat a total stranger with respect-especially online-where no one knows who we really are. Unfortionately, it's only going to continue to get worse.